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Some carry enthusiasts are saying they feel a carry permit is better because it forces people to attend a firearms safety course.

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I understand that thought process, BUT, the 8 hour course I took to get my CCL was not a course on firearm safety or self defence. The instructer did cover 'range' safety issues, and how he wanted the handguns handled on the range...but that was it. It was some good insight into laws regarding CC in OK and other states. But truthfully, it was all a rough over draft, leaving the responsibility of the liscence holder to research and know the laws.

I think a small percentage of CCL holders are actually very proficient with their firearm. My guess is alot of them don't practice with them but maybe once a year, if that.

That said, I agree with Andy. If an individual can legally own a firearm, screw the CCL. They don't need my finger prints on file. I think the AZ law is a step in the right direction.

Maintain
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 17, 2010, 10:30 AM:
 
To tell you the truth, I think a few things about that law are a little questionable, but nothing that cannot be sorted out, point by point and I'm sure there will be lots of "anti's" willing to offer a restriction, or two?

The thing that bothers me the most is the signs outside businesses. Forcing you to turn around and ditch your piece under the seat of the truck is just asking for a smash and grab. It seems to me that these places, open to the public, should allow legal carry, and welcome those that do. Surveys have shown that these are not the bad guys and need not be feared. One guy with a handgun could have stopped a lot of killing at VA Tech. But, the idiots proudly proclaim a gun free campus! IDIOTS!

Good hunting. LB

[ April 17, 2010, 10:30 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on April 17, 2010, 10:45 AM:
 
I have always considered those signs to represent store policy, not law, so hell, it's concealed, who knows but me?
I just go on in, and pay no attention to the gawd damned signs, in fact, that old song starts playin' in my head when I read those...." sign, sign, everywhere a sign". I figure the bill of rights trumps a sign?
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on April 17, 2010, 11:01 AM:
 
Yeah thats like the "drug free zone" signs at the school's, I guess some of those kids cant read ?
because they're buying and selling in the hallways everyday
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 17, 2010, 11:01 AM:
 
I carry a purse. One time, following my wife into the theater and handing the tickets, the guy said he needed to look in my bag. I refused, asking him why he didn't demand to look in my wife's purse? He took me a step up in rank and although she was clearly pissed off at me, said: "enjoy the movie". Anymore, I just say that it's for my medications rather than my secret weapon holster.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on April 17, 2010, 11:08 AM:
 

quote:

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Anymore, I just say that it's for my medications rather than my secret weapon holster

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Good one Leonard!

Just tell them it's your "catheter" bag and they won't even want to look!

Nikonut
 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on April 17, 2010, 11:13 AM:
 
LB - never figured you for a purse kinda guy.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 17, 2010, 11:52 AM:
 
I never seen any such sign. Honest officer...

Elbee, a purse/murse?
 

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Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on April 17, 2010, 12:16 PM:
 
The CCW classes are very worth while. My instructor did cover when you can and when you shouldn't use deadly force. He also advised us to lawyer up if the worst happens. The nice thing for my situation is I don't have to worry about a family member using my truck with my carry piece in it. The general carry law simply said it had to be in a holster with a strap. The idea was the time it took to unstrap the weapon would give a LEO an edge. My carry holster has a velcro pull thru strap so it is immediately available. It was real questionable if it would qualify and that would be primarily the officer’s interpretation of the law.

Leonard, I've carried in Ca before. Even went to Disneyland with my piece in the camera bag before 9-11. I left my piece in the car last time I went to the Enchanted Kingdom because of concern of increased security measures that have been implemented there. I still go with a lot of fire power with high cap mags and such. I don't want to ever be there weaponless if the big one hits. In fact I don't want to be there period if the big one happens. The aftermath will make the Rodney King riots look like a K-8 play ground. My grandson (13) thinks I'm a little odd and jokes about it. I don't want to even mention what I bring over to your home state, but at least I don’t leave it hot.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 17, 2010, 12:42 PM:
 
Kelly, did you ever notice how we dress in the summertime, here in The Land of The Fruits and The Nuts? Bermudas, flipflops and a wife beater shirt. Where else are you going to conceal, up your ass?

I'm on my third purse, each a little more manly. lol

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on April 17, 2010, 02:01 PM:
 
I wore a Desantis Gunnysack for over 18 years. It was (and still is) a good way to carry a weapon and identification.

I eventually purchased a more concealable weapon, and did away with the Gunnysack for everyday carry. I still wear it while I am hunting though, or wearing shorts and a wifebeater.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 17, 2010, 02:06 PM:
 
"Where else are you going to conceal, up your ass?"

Close Elbee, the small of your back IWB holster and you don't have to look like a queer or you're carrying.

[ April 17, 2010, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: TOM64 ]
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on April 17, 2010, 05:06 PM:
 
As soon as Kansas approved concealed carry, every business in the state started posting the "no guns" signs. An interesting point was made shortly thereafter about how the supposed act of allowing us to carry concealed inadvertently restricted us even more. After all, before CCW, Kansas was cool with open carry and you could go just about anywhere. Nowadays, "no guns" means no guns, concealed, open up your ass, wherever.

A buddy of mine even pulled into a convenience store this winter while hunting. Had his .22 pistol on his hip. Had taken out the revolver and left it in the truck since the place had one of those signs on the door, and an LEO confronted him as he approached the business accusing him of trying to violate the store policy and the law. This guy is Army and he pretty much burned the idiot cop by pointing out 1) he was still in the parking lot where guns are legal, and 2) his life threatening holster was EMPTY.

They could bust me daily, I guess. If I'm hunting, I always have a .22 revolver on my belt. Unfortunately, my belt is under fleece overalls and two jackets and I don't even think of it being there. I guess I could always offer up the defense that they need probable cause to stop me and search my person.

As far as those signs, Kansas went smoke free recently - all businesses except, ironically, state-owned casinos. Anyway, so-called public buildings which are really private businesses which rely upon the public to stay that way don't have a choice. I told my legislator recently that they really screwed the pooch on that one. Abilene was the first in the state to go smoke free, so this was an idea I'd had for some time. Could do the same thing with guns.

I told him that the law should have been that each and every business must display on every point of entry one of two signs - either a cigarette icon to show that smoking is allowed, or the same icon with the diagonal line through it to show that smoking is prohibited. You could just as easily replace smoking with gun.

Anyway, the beauty of this is that the entire system is based upon choice - choice by the business owner, choice by the customer. The business owner can allow smoking/ guns if he wants. The customer has the opportunity at the door to decide if he/ she wants to enter a business that allows smoking/ guns.

The problem with these issues is illustrated in an incident that happened at the restaurant where my wife works. No smoking, but the new e-cigarettes are allowed because they do not produce smoke. My wife has changed to them and it is helping her a lot. Anyway, some lady recently started lobbying to outlaw their use in public buildings as well, even though they pose no risk or threat to bystanders at all, simply because they are a replacement for the real deal. This woman has outed their movement by showing that the goal is not public health, but rather, control of the public. Therefore, Geordie, when you get up there on your water tower with your guns, make sure you have some smokes, too, to make sure you piss off everyone equally.

[ April 17, 2010, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on April 17, 2010, 05:30 PM:
 
Lance, if I remember correctly, your no gun signs are different from ours. Here, like I said, if your caught, you will be asked to leave. If you dont, the cops can give you a $100 ticket.

In KS, I believe, its a felony to carry past a sign? Is that right?
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on April 17, 2010, 05:33 PM:
 
One thing on the no gun sign thing. Im not against it. A person that owns a business should have the right to refuse service to anyone. If they dont want guns in their store, unless its just somewhere I have to go, I oblige them and spend my money elsewhere. Like I said, I try to make sure they are aware of losing sales. Most times with some reasoning, you can get the signs to come down.

Missouri Carry website even has business cards you can get to hand out to people with the gun free zones. It basically has a picture of a gun with a slash through it, an equal sign and a picture of cash with a slash through it. No guns=no money.
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on April 17, 2010, 08:54 PM:
 
I honestly don't know, Andy. I'll have to ask around.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on April 18, 2010, 05:08 AM:
 
Living here in the Land of Cactus & Coyotes, I've gotten quite a few emails on this. Hoorahs & envey for the most part. Then, yesterday while pondering the perfection of the sunset in the west, the mint julep in my hand, & Sylvia's cover of Drifter, I got to thinking; How far has the country degraded that where the RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED......we need to pass a stunning law (Film at 11:00) making it LEGAL to carry a gun???

The next thing that you know, we'll bravely make it illegal for someone to be in this country illegally...................
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 18, 2010, 07:49 AM:
 
That's sorta profound, koko. I'm impressed.
 

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