This is topic A long time ago......... in forum Cat Forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.

To visit this topic, use this URL:;f=5;t=000126

Posted by Moe (Member # 4494) on June 12, 2018, 10:36 AM:
I was 19 when I first started calling. My mentor was a guy named Art Para. One night we drove into the back of a piece of property where we had permission to hunt and I shot a bobcat that went 28 lbs. When the stand was over I went out to pick up the cat and learned a serious lesson. Animals, including humans, die with their eyes open.

I started to pick up the cat and then caught myself. I didn't take a weapon out with me so I nudged the cat by its eyes with the toe of my boot. The cat raised its leg and sank in its claws about an inch below my scrotum then tore my pant leg all the way down to the bottom seam. I felt lucky to still have my nuts.

The cat got up and tried running away but I'd hit it with my 243 and was well damaged. I called for Art to bring up a rifle and he finished the cat. My leg was cold the rest of the night.

We shot Sierra 75 grain bullets back in those days and with the 243's we got a lot of runners and wounded critters but after I got my 22-250 that stopped. We should've been using the 60 grain bullets out of the 243's.

[ June 12, 2018, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: Moe ]
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on June 12, 2018, 11:43 AM:
A live bobcat is a razor blade with a heartbeat.
If anybody doubts that, re-read Moe's post slowly and carefully.
He was very lucky to not have physical damage or be gifted with a septic infection known as cat scratch fever.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 13, 2018, 06:02 AM:
And that's a bigger than average cat. I always figured an average cat to be right around 22 pounds. The biggest I ever killed went 30 pounds, a female?

Like somebody once said, whoever could lick his weight in wildcats would be a fair broth of a man.

But, very few cats need a Coup d Grau. They seem to die pretty easily....compared to a coyote, of which "they" say; can carry off more lead than a junk wagon.

Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by earthwalker (Member # 4177) on June 14, 2018, 01:42 PM:
You turn one loose out of a trap and it doesn't want to take off or the dog P.O's it bad and you're the tallest thing around it'll try to climb on top of your head.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 14, 2018, 04:32 PM:
The problem is; a cat can't walk and chew gum at the same time. They absolutely know what they are doing stalking prey, but if caught in a trap or a cage, after an initial rush at the closed entrance, they pretty much accept the situation. Even if you open the door, you might have to goose him to get him moving, maybe because he's more worried about the human walking around. He's not going to fight the trap like a wolverine might. I guess G.I.s in bamboo cages didn't try chewing their way out of there very much, either?

Anyway, cats are just different, not stupid. Think about how many undetected bobcats you never see coming to a call. Myself, I see a pretty good percentage as they have concluded they ain't buying what I'm selling, and then casually walk away. This walking away is totally different from the stealth approach. At that point, they don't care and have zero concept that you might be able to harm them as they stroll back to what they were doing ; before.

That's why a cat might look at you from way out yonder, not feeling threatened, whereas, a coyote thinks it's better to put some vegetation and real estate between you and him. We have to give a cat his due, he's a survivor, living around people that don't have a clue that he is out there. You really need to learn his habits before knowing how to hunt such a skilled hunter.

Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Moe (Member # 4494) on June 17, 2018, 10:40 AM:
My biggest bobcat was 32 lbs. The biggest one I ever saw was 35 lbs. One of the club members got it on a club hunt in the Owens. That cat was beautiful with long fur and chocolate brown markings. Everyone, including me, offered him money for the cat but he said he'd found his bobcat rug. My big cat was poorly marked and had very short hair.

Like LB I've found most adult cats to run about 22 lbs but I shot quite a few that were bigger.

Coyotes seem to run about 25 lbs but one night not far from Las Vegas I killed one that went 42 lbs. It looked like a big overfed dog. Average head but a fat neck and body.

When I started calling back in the early 60's and to this day I have never shot a coyote with mange. My friends who hunt in California have but not me. I discovered that mange was introduced in Montana as a way to control coyote populations and I guess it has taken all this time to get to California.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on June 17, 2018, 11:42 AM:
Not sure, but it seems like the fattest coyotes that I've shot were the three legged ones.
Weird...….and I usually didn't know they were peg legged until I picked them up.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 17, 2018, 07:22 PM:
I'm not sure about biggest or fattest, but one thing about three legged coyotes. When they are running, It's not often you notice a limp, in fact I only remember one time I was aware that a coyote coming to the call had a problem. In other words, it's usually a surprise when picking up a dead coyote, that he s missing a foot or is cripple, in some way. I guess they hide it pretty well.

On the other hand, I don't ever remember a bobcat that had any sort of physical deformity? I know, when they get nicked somewhere, they act like big babies, fretting over a pretty minor flesh wound, stopping to lick it frequently, etc. Not a coyote. In fact i had a coyote run off, after hiding from me that had FOUR broken legs! That sucker was making halfway decent time, too! Another time, this coyote was dragging almost 20 feet of intestines until they snagged in some sage and then he was still tugging at it like he was lassoed. Coyotes are tough, you gotta give them that.

Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on June 18, 2018, 03:18 AM:
Yeah, a couple of things to be thankful for;
(1) The Hildabeast lost.
(2) Coyotes and badgers don't stand 'bout 4 foot at the shoulder.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 18, 2018, 04:48 AM:
I don't know what it means, how tough they are, but I can't remember having a bullet exit a badger? Seriously.

Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on June 22, 2018, 09:21 AM:
Interesting the difference in old war wounds between coyotes and bobcats. We have all seen variations of peg legged coyotes, coyotes with no lower jaw and various other big trauma, usually caused by bullet,auto or trap.
Ive skinned many a bobcat, where under the hide, they were riddled with prickly pear thorns? I attribute this to getting backed up into a big cactus by coyotes,dogs or something else trying to get them? Also, any cat Ive ever skinned that had obviously been shot, was with bird shot. I figure many a quail hunter, while out walking the brush looking for a covey, if seeing a bobcat, throws a charge or two its way?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 23, 2018, 10:36 AM:
That's kind of interesting, Vic. You know, my guess is there are actually a lot more bobcats in Nevada than in Arizona, but the country is much more "remote" as far as citizens traipsing around hither and yon. Meaning, I don't think Nevada cats see as many bird hunters as you would expect just about anywhere in Arizona. Therefore, that explains for me that I haven't seen that birdshot under the skin and the fact that in the old days, I killed a lot more cats in NV than AZ. Of course, for many years, those cats have been awarded to residents, a few of which take hundreds every years while non residents have to let them go....a sore subject with me, BTW.

Something I find interesting, you know, the photos that one sees of a bobcat standing on top of a Sahuaro, and I always wonder about stickers in the paws? You know, a Palo Verde has just a wicked thorns as a cactus and damned near as many. I saw a cat jump into the middle of a Palo Verde, (means: green tree) and seemed unconcerned about the stickers. After I shot him, I had a hell of a time pulling him out of there, too!

There was this time that a not well hit coyote ran off and crashed headfirst into a buckhorn cholla, you know when the segmented branches detach and this coyote still wasn't dead yet, his skin all pinned in unnatural expression. I seriously felt sorry for him. Always remember to pack a fork whenever you incautiously bump into cholla of any kind!

You know, when driving while hunting, I might be doing 5-8 miles per hour and my kid, down the same road will be going 30-35. There was this time I wasn't paying attention and neither was he, and he sideswiped a large buckhorn on my side, naturally. My arm was resting on the sill and I got a load of cholla imbedded from my elbow to my shoulder. I could have killed him for an instant, meaning the rest of the day. Later, when I got all that stuff off of me, I absentmindedly put my hand and arm down along the side between the seat and the door and got another load of cholla that has sheared off and fallen where I didn't notice. I'm telling you, I could have clocked that boy all over again! I mean, how much sense does it take to be careful around any cacti? But, that's the difference, I'm a hand tool guy and he will break out the damned chainsaw to trim one branch! He's a 5 axis nuclear machinist, requiring precision and caution, and a sloppy handloader, to boot; do babies sometimes get switched at birth?

Take care is my motto, & good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Grizz (Member # 4626) on June 24, 2018, 06:07 PM:
Damn! My biggest cat went 26 pounds, my biggest coyote went 34. Wanted to do a full body mount on the coyote but I shot in August up by Beatty NV and it was down right nastified. Rick
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 24, 2018, 06:44 PM:
You know, I've been around, here and there. But, I have seen many big coyotes come out of Nye County, I didn't kill it, my partner killed a 37 pounder north of Tonapah, biggest coyote I've personally witnessed.

Cats? No comparison. Northern Nevada has a butt load of big LynxCats. However, the biggest cat I ever killed was in New Mexico. I never had a chance to weigh him but there's no doubt; he was huge. Within a stones throw of the Mexican border between Columbus and El Paso. I did have a photo, and it was for sure a convincer, but damned if I know what happened to it?

Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Grizz (Member # 4626) on June 24, 2018, 08:13 PM:
I agree Leonard. The Nevada cat policy has always irritated me. I wonder if Nevada residents can come over to CA and take cats with a non resident license and buy cat tags? Rick
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on June 25, 2018, 03:50 AM:
I have released more than a few from cage traps but never without a shot gun in my hands usually smaller females never had a moment !
They would either bolt right now or sit and wait a while ! I have a video somewhere of a release maybe vimeo or you tube ! I suck at computer stuff !

[ June 25, 2018, 03:55 AM: Message edited by: Paul Melching ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 25, 2018, 01:27 PM:
I have heard from experts that a bobcat can mount a ferocious attack, whirlwind claws, hissing, and spitting, yet manage to not actually move more than a quarter of an inch closer to their opponent.

You do not want to get your coat bunched up around your shoulders while trying to back out of confined space after encountering an upset bobcat. I have experienced a little bit of this drama myself, and it scares the complete crap out of you! And, now it's like total darkness.

I managed to miss a wounded cat from a distance of about 5 feet, with the barrel of my trusty 6mm extended. From the muzzle to his head, it couldn't have been more than a foot and a half? I must have flinched? I don't remember exactly what happened because I had my eyes closed most of the time....maybe the whole time?

What do I take away from this knowledge and experience? Do not wrestle with a bobcat, do not grab a bobcat, do not make threatening moves in his direction from close proximity. And, protect your face and head, while slowly backing away. Easy peasy. Of course, this could be interpreted as weakness, so don't do that, either. You're on your own.

Not only that, I exaggerate a lot when frightened.
edit: oh, and don't forget the earplugs!

Good hunting. El Bee

[ June 25, 2018, 01:29 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Moe (Member # 4494) on July 03, 2018, 04:49 PM:
I've also never seen a bullet exit a badger. They do die easy.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 03, 2018, 06:47 PM:
Not only, they are a complete bitch to skin! I've never seen any animal even close to a badger when it comes to pulling the hide.

Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Grizz (Member # 4626) on July 03, 2018, 07:49 PM:
Leonard I remember that huge badger you and Jr Killt on one of the CSVCA 18 hour hunts. Seems like the check in was up the other side of Montgomery pass. I forget what year, they all run together Rick.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 04, 2018, 06:31 AM:
Yeah, Rick. It was a damned shame I didn't have something done with that big badger. Easily "almost" twice the size of an average badger that I have seen and taken in 4 or 5 western states. He was a beauty!

Good hunting. El Bee

PS same thing, no exit, and I just remembered that I shot him with my 25'06 Ackley, facing me. Fell back down the hole, had to reach in and drag him out, gulp!....but no exit through the back. (100 gr. Nosler; easy to remember, that's all I use) Tough bastards!
Posted by Grizz (Member # 4626) on July 08, 2018, 11:26 AM:
I would like to thank the California Lottery for the 1K I just won on a scratcher. Rick
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 08, 2018, 01:50 PM:
Wow! Congratulations.

I've never won a damned thing on scratchers, but of course, I haven't played in at least 15 years, maybe more?

Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Grizz (Member # 4626) on July 08, 2018, 03:46 PM:
Good timing for me Leonard. I have to give the state back 356 this week to pay the reg on my Corvette. Those bastards.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 08, 2018, 05:04 PM:
Bastards is right! My truck is 14 years old and it's not registered commercial, it's a housecar and it still cost me $150! Liberal is too mild a word, these bastards are communist. Don't get me started on registering assault weapons. By the July 1 deadline. The BASTARDS!

Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Grizz (Member # 4626) on July 09, 2018, 05:02 PM:
On my AR's I went fixed magazine. No way was I gonna register them. Open that can of worms.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 10, 2018, 07:59 AM:
As you might know, I don't know a damned thing about those machine guns. I had a Colt many years ago but the only reason I bought it was for high target concentration areas. I was around Pisinimo and noticed right away that I had those distracting floppers needing a second and third shot when I should have been addressing a newcomer to the scene. All in all, it was a short lesson, then I had the 50 yard or 100 yard zero problem, because the scope was mounted on the handle. It was a revealing weekend and I'm not kidding, I put it away and it hasn't been fired since. In fact, I clearly remember forgetting it at the 7-11 and when I went back for it, it was gone. Oh well! I'm sure that was 20 years ago, more or less. I guess it might have been useful for crowd control?

In all seriousness, "we" would have been better off a long time ago if that piece of shit had never been modified and offered to the civilian population. I think both Remington and Winchester make a semi auto that does the same thing and they aren't black and scary looking. Maybe the Winchester was the Model 100? The Remington? might have been called a Model 760 or 742, something like that? Wood stock, chambered in deer calibers, or if you were lucky, 243W? That way, those ignorant bastards wouldn't have the ASSAULT WEAPON to bitch about.

You know I'm right.

Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Grizz (Member # 4626) on July 10, 2018, 05:13 PM:
I agree Leonard but then they would be sniveling about another type of firearm the Lib will never go away.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 10, 2018, 06:32 PM:
Remember "Cop Killer Bullets"? Or, Black Talon?

Snort! How about; "Assault Weapon"?

Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Grizz (Member # 4626) on July 10, 2018, 07:35 PM:
I buy Black Talon every time I come across a box of 44 Mag, 357 Mag, 45 ACP, or 40 S&W when I find it at a gun show as long as the seller does not like it to much. It's legal to own Winchester just caved and agreed not to produce any more for sale to the public.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 10, 2018, 09:22 PM:
Do you mean bullets or loaded ammunition?
Posted by Grizz (Member # 4626) on July 11, 2018, 03:26 AM:

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.0