This is topic Go figure??? in forum Firearms for Varmints and Predators at The New Huntmastersbbs!.

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on January 31, 2019, 07:51 AM:
So, was blessed to take a nice bobcat couple weeks ago, plus a couple coyotes. Was carrying the .22-243AI & using up the rest of a batch of 75Amax reloads that had begun showing 'splashy' in previous campaigns. Subsequent to witnessing that, swapped boolits, loading up a batch of 75VLDs, which happily grouped to same POI, and shot even smaller than the Amax. And, they kill quick & clean in partner's .22-243Win, so...Win/win, right? Indeed, the 75VLDs pounded coyotes in the dirt from my AI, too...

Still, wanted get those few remaining Amaxs burned up, so used em on some 'fun' stands. First coyote hops out & gets smoked broadside at about a hundred. Walk up...NO damage, no exit.
Next successful stand, coyote rolls out...same pin hole entrance and no exit. Hmmm....ok I'll take it! But still skeptical as to those few splash deals from previous year?

Low & behold, on a pretty morning stand the next day, a big ol' Tom comes strollin' in like he owns da place! Hops thru cedars, stops at the fence for a sec, then eases thru with the purposeful stalk that only a cat can pull off...

Get swung around, centered up, and all I'm thinking about is: Hit em square & PLEASE don't blow this cat to pieces!

He sure looked like a dandy! Figured distance was my friend at that point & no need to let him crawl in for even more of a high speed impact, so let the crosshairs settle into the brisket...
Trigger breaks, catching a glimpse of impact...armpits flaring outward as the cat vanishes out of my sight picture. And the rewarding meat report is always a nice bonus, sounded like slappin' wet mud with a flip flop! Only thing left to do was go over and claim him...

After a joyous meeting with my partner, sitting 40yds away, swappin' hugs and quick replay of the ever excellent cat approach, I began to vocalize my prior wish..."Please don't be blowed up!" Repeating it, as we covered the hundred or so yards thru the pasture grass...

Sho nuff, the cat was a big tom! And didn't have a scratch on em! Not from the Amax, anyway. Just a single entrance in the brisket, no exit at all, and nary a drop of blood! The big cat was just laying there, pretty as you please!

Sat there a minute & gave thanks for a beautiful animal, and for being blessed to be able to share the moment with a good friend. That's something I'll never take for granted!

Anyhoo, was sure again glad that the beast .22-243AI acted like a .17caliber 'fur gun'! Just when ya (I) think ya got a hint of a clue on bullet/cartridge stuff, right?

Went on to kill a few more coyotes, and the 75Amax did the same exact thing...immediate ground check and NO exit. Go figure???

Happy hunting!

[ January 31, 2019, 07:56 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on January 31, 2019, 08:06 AM:
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 31, 2019, 10:07 AM:
Good post, Fred.

You know, it's hard to figure out terminal bullet performance unless you have a few flesh and blood examples.

I never had a problem with my 22-250 Ackley using the 65 grain Bergers, which aren't available anymore. That bullet in that gun was never destructive, which most of the time I didn't care about. The hydrostatic shock just folded them up with a tremor and stiff legs, and I always had a "quarter" size exit which was no big deal, regardless of the range. I have never been able to figure it out, but the velocity and the twist just resulted in a happy combination. And the twist is 1 in 14" so it is still acceptably accurate.

Ya just never know what a particular bullet will do on an animal. I killed a 200 pound boar with my little 223AI 55 grain VMax, and he was stone dead before hitting the ground. Head shot, no exit, cleanest skinning and dressing I have ever experienced. Same thing, you never know about the application until you try it.

As a class, I find .243" to be destructive. I've used everything from 56gr. to 105gr. and you never know which is the more destructive. I used a 6mmRem w/ a 100 grain Sierra spitzer on my Kudu and that bullet exited passing through one lung. Also, ran about 300 yards before collapsing, Until then, I thought I might have missed? A little light for an animal that size, but I've killed a fair number of mule deer with that same gun. However, in my experience, the worst 6mm bullets for fur are 70-75 grain, if that's what you are after.

Right now, and for the past 4 years, I've been using a 62 grain Berger in my 22-243 Middlested, and that bullet, in that gun is pretty destructive on coyotes, and as Paul might attest, practically eviserates a gray fox. Of course, I don't care, as long as they are dead. If i happened to have that gun in hand on a cat, I'd have to opt for a head shot. And, with cats, that's not too hard to do.

Anyway, you just never know what kind of terminal performance you will get until you get there.
Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on January 31, 2019, 03:01 PM:
Very nice.
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 31, 2019, 04:32 PM:
Nice cat Fred.

You doing all your hunting upstate?
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on January 31, 2019, 04:46 PM:
Well done Fred!

Congrats on a beautiful cat no damage.

You going to do anything with it?
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on January 31, 2019, 08:18 PM:
Nice cat!
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on February 01, 2019, 04:55 AM:
Purdy kitty Fred !
Posted by Eddie (Member # 4324) on February 01, 2019, 05:10 AM:
Good looking cat!
You been down south and west In Okla. again. Got the same color as there cats do.
Posted by ATexan (Member # 6799) on February 01, 2019, 06:27 AM:
Very nice tom cat! Congrats
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 01, 2019, 07:20 AM:
Actually, that's a rather unusual, or odd looking cat. Not saying it's not attractive, in it's own way, but I can't recall ever seeing one quite like it.

A lot of the cats out west, southern California and Arizona have a lot more vivid coloration, a bright orangish back and contrast between a pure white belly and pronounced black spots.

The cats we see further north of here, eastern Oregon, northern Nevada and western Utah are more gray and longer in body, weigh significantly more, longer legged and are classified as "Lynx-cats" by the fur buyers. They also command significantly higher prices.

I used to work with a guy that showed me a cat he had killed. It was tube skinned for mounting and was kind of square, short legs and spots everywhere. He asked me what I thought it weighed and I said 18-20 pounds. He said, nope, 30 pounds! Well, that's right up there with the biggest cat I ever killed, but that one was twice as long, a lynxcat.

Just goes to show that there are many regional variations. In some parts of the country, their cats may only command 30% of what a prime cat from area 6 would bring. In fact, I haven't seen a whole lot of cats from Wyoming and Colorado, but I consider those taken from the Sierras and from northern Nevada to be the best and consistently bringing higher prices than even Canadian lynx. And, you know how to tell a bobcat from a lynx? The lynx tail has a black tip where the lynx-cat bobcat has a white tip, which is a little hard to tell, at a glance, you sorta have to look for it.

Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 01, 2019, 02:49 PM:
Thanks gents, that cat was from NE OK...
One more pic to show coloration & size:

Not that I've seen a ton of cats, but what impressed me most was the size of that mallet head, as well as the overall 'stocky' build. I recall KJ referring to those gray ones as "rabbit backs", and I'd agree it an accurate description! So much different than those pretty orangey colored cats, and/or ones with pronounced rosette spots all over...

Going full mount on this....don't everyone need a stuffed bobcat??? Just hope taxidermy man can capture that body type accurately, he said he'd prolly use a lynx head...
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 03, 2019, 09:51 AM:
I hope your taxi guy gets the eyes right. I've yet to see one right.

As for the bullet, I shot one with a 75 Amax a couple of years ago and unzipped her pretty bad. My cousin and I were calling one day and he had one jump up on a rock not 20' from him. He shot it with his 223 wssm and I just knew it was ruined. It had a pencil hole going in and no exit.

Speed is your friend until it isn't.
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on February 03, 2019, 05:44 PM:
Looks much like the one my pard got this morning. No sooner had he turned on the caller when a coyote busted out from the cover with this bobcat hot on its ass. Said he had to think about that for a second. Dropped the coyote, the cat retreated to the thicket, switched to a higher pitched sound and the cat and a second cat both appeared. Got the bigger of the two.

We have a lot of rabbit back cats here. No spots on the back at all, and often very sparse on the belly. Our cats often don't have a nice wide belly, the white is narrow and when you blow into the fur, the underfur is grey. Good cats have white "clear" bellies. Rabbit backed cats are often a product of their environs. We tend to see them more in CRP grass and pastureland, whereas you go to NE KS in the Flint Hills where there's lots of limestone breaks and granite concealed by hickory and oak hardwoods and those cats are a lot nicer.

Good looking tom. Hard to find a guy that can do a cat well. Those eyes require a very specific angle of cant, in at the top.

Try to harvest intel for you guys'load debates. Newb at handloading and I have settled into a .223 round for my machine gun that is da shit. 55g spitzer. Got a double on coyotes today. First one sat down at about 60 yards, shot her in the brisket in front. Offered up a little coyote porn and the male popped up about 30 yards behind her. All I could see was his head. Centered up and dropped him. Neither had an exit wound. The female (first one) had an impressive cavity in her chest and when the hide pulled free on the skinning rig, massive quantities of liquified lungs, heart and liver poured out of the ground. Hung that male and I'd hit him with the same bullet smack dab between the eyes. One eye bulged out, brains draining out of both ears, skull exploded but no disruption of the muscles so it held together.What a mess. I've taken coyotes with this load at ten yards and smoked one at 280 with the same wonderful results. I wont go back to any of the "maxes" again unless and until I need to. This old school bullet just works that well.

[ February 03, 2019, 05:51 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on February 04, 2019, 03:46 AM:
Nicely done Fred!

Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on February 09, 2019, 07:28 AM:
Nice cat Fred, and I'll raise my hand in the "never would've guessed" crowd that you didn't have a big ass exit hole on that cat with that rifle/bullet combo.
Posted by booger (Member # 3602) on February 11, 2019, 06:52 AM:
That is one 'purty cat!!!!

Good job!

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