This is topic Non lead bullets... in forum Firearms forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on September 30, 2018, 01:29 PM:
Went out this morning and shot 3 coyotes. 22-250 with lead free hollow points. Everyone of em took a follow up to kill em...one took 4 fucking shots...including 2 slueces from 10 feet. I felt like I was shooting a .223 or something!
They shoot great on paper...and I made a great 250 yard loping away shot on one.. and a 300 yard standing shot on another....but out of the last 50 coyotes I've shot with lead free small caliber bullets,..close and far.. probly most of them required a couple more shots to finish em off. At first I questioned my shooting, but even when I do my part (snicker) they suck. And I've been thru several types and brands.
Just bitching.
Thanks California.
Mark
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on September 30, 2018, 02:05 PM:
In your left pocket, you carry the lead bullets and in your right pocket, you carry …….. more lead bullets 'cause you moved to Arizona and don't have to put up with such nonsense. (Yet.)
Calif. (in my opinion) is heading for a political, social and economic meltdown. When it happens, it's going to make the Watts Riot & the Rodney King Riots look like Saturday night at the Palimino. (Cowboy bar.)
Get out while you can.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 30, 2018, 02:17 PM:
Thank California for lots of well intentioned dictatorial legislation, since we only have one political party in this state and they can do anything they damned well please. And, they fall all over themselves in Sacramento demonstrating who can introduce the most outrageous and unneeded bills resulting in very bad laws....For our own good, of course. I hate Liberals!
What is it I keep hearing about solid copper bullets? They don't expand in the bore enough for accuracy and for velocity? Any truth to that? What I question is the need, of course. It's unneeded and unnecessary. This anti lead bullshit is an anti hunting device and serves no legitimate purpose. I can't believe hunters and shooters have given up on the issue! It just gets worse. There is no legitimate reason for mandating lead shot, especially for upland game.
I've said before, this restriction on lead for diving ducks is only justified further east where they have muck and mud bottoms and the divers ingest that lead and a few will die. So, the solution, steel shot and contend with a higher percentage of cripples that set wings and are wasted where they are unretrievable. Yeah, I know there are more expensive alternatives now.
The asinine idea that condors scavenge unrecovered game and then pick out the tasty lead bullet fragments. This is why I say that Game Biologists are just as shameless liars as normal Liberals. They literally have a license to lie, who's going to question their data, much less their motives.
Anyway. Folks, all these unfair and very questionable regulations are coming your way. Be ready.
Oh, I haven't addressed the actual lethality of these light for caliber bullets. Or, they have to be much longer and require a fast twist. And, is that always a good thing? I can think of a couple negatives.
Anyway Mark. I'd really rather drive out of this state to hunt. I have felt that way for more than 40 years. What the hell am I still doing here?
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: Oh, I didn't mention why lead shot is fine out west. It's because our ponds and lakes are sandy bottoms and the lead shot drops through it and the birds can't reach it....so, it's not a risk. So, it's unnecessary, for waterfowl. And, it sure as hell is unnecessary for everything else. Period!
[ September 30, 2018, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on September 30, 2018, 03:04 PM:
Lead free was never about protecting game or birds.
The idea behind steel shot was to force hunters to use something so inefficient that they would give up hunting.
And more importantly, they would not pass the hunting tradition on to children and grandchildren. Attrition wins in the end.
And, if the Antis can use the issue as a 'cause' and raise a few bucks for this important work ……….you know the mantra.
Do NOT be surprised if the Antis next claim that lead free bullets are inefficient (Lone Howl said so) and hunting should be stopped or severely restricted.
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on September 30, 2018, 06:58 PM:
I always kinda figured the all-copper bullets would kill a bit slower than the lead-core bullets on coyotes. Thanks for the report, Mark.
I've seen a few elk and deer killed with the Barnes X and the more recent TSX. In quite a few cases, critters run further than you'd think when punched in the lungs when compared to a lead core bullet.
I always figure if they come down on the use of lead bullets here, I'll do like Koko mentioned.
If a guy had to hoard a thousand or so lead bullets to sneak afield, that should take me well past my coyote chasing days. By than I won't care anymore...
[ September 30, 2018, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: Lonny ]
Posted by Brent Parker (Member # 4354) on October 01, 2018, 09:30 AM:
That hasn't been my experience. But its been with a fast twist .223 with 55 and 62 TTSX. I have also used a .243 with Barnes 80 TTSX for a lot of coyotes and never had one take a step.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 01, 2018, 10:31 AM:
Why are you using copper bullets, Brent? Preference, or some regulation bs?
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on October 01, 2018, 11:32 AM:
Yes..are you crazy? Or are you preparing to move to Kali?
Mark
edit to add...I have been thinking about trying a faster twist barrel with the heavier(longer) bullets. Ive been debating for about 4 years now on it. I just keep thinking Ill move or just hunt out of state, but....
[ October 01, 2018, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on October 01, 2018, 01:17 PM:
What Brent said...
Mark, what twist is your .250?
Barnes makes a .224 cal. TTSX in 50, 55 & 62grains. Would work for a 1:12, 1:10 & 1:8, respectively...
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on October 01, 2018, 02:45 PM:
Remmy 1-14 on all my 22-250's. Itll shoot the bigger pills, but not as good. Ill have to do something though.
Mark
Posted by Brent Parker (Member # 4354) on October 02, 2018, 05:49 AM:
Contract requirements.
Barnes TTSX bullet has killed coyotes out to 350 with the .223 with boring regularly and I prefer the 62 TTSX but have used the 55 TTSX and 500 with the 80 TTSX. Cant remember ever shooting one twice.
Cali is never on my horizon. Its too fucked up politically for me.
As far a crazy just depends.
For a fur bullet they are great. Kill well and little fur damage. Have used them for 7 years so I do have some experience with them.
Seating depth is critical on them to get them to shoot but they will once you find the spot they want to run.
Building myself a .22 Creedmoor and plan to run the 70 TSX for this season.
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on October 02, 2018, 07:03 AM:
I have to admit, fur friendly they are. At some point Ill probly rebarrel one of em and shoot something a bit heavier. My jaunt to Arizona a few months ago was liberating...I didnt feel like a criminal carrying around lead bullets.
Mark
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 02, 2018, 07:20 AM:
Yeah, but don't feel too secure! You do know that if you get drawn in one of the units surrounding the Grand canyon the AZ Game and Fish will issue you two boxes of lead free cartridges.
I'm telling you people; it's creeping Liberal communism. One day, if we don't put a stop to it, lead bullets will be completely banned in the United States. Look, for a couple hundred years or so, lead has served quite well, as a projectile, in Victor's coyote rifle and on battleships. Now, suddenly, they reinvent the wheel! If somebody can prove how much better solid copper bullets are, I'm willing to consider the question. But, this MANDATORY SHIT has got to stop!
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on October 02, 2018, 08:36 AM:
Brent, I just tested some 70TSXs in my .220Redline. Seated .020" off a hard jam & dumped a big charge of RL33, per Quickload recommend....and they SHOOT! Figure they're steaming at about 3870fps, or thereabouts, from a 53Kpsi load...
The 80TTSX from 6x45AI also very well with a .020" jump.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 02, 2018, 04:42 PM:
This is just me, my friends. And, those of you that have been forced to use copper bullets, I commiserate but I for one would resist vigorously. Only if I thought they would perform better without several alterations in my equipment and procedures. And, first of all I've never used copper bullets and hope I'm never forced to use them. But, I could be forced. Soon. And that drives me fuking nuts!
Good hunting. El Bee
[ October 02, 2018, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Grizz (Member # 4626) on October 03, 2018, 03:19 AM:
Fuck it... I for one intend to ignore the lead ban. Rick
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on October 03, 2018, 06:52 AM:
If you get caught just claim that you're here illegally and request sanctuary.
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on October 07, 2018, 01:25 PM:
I've been using the Barnes TSX on pigs and a few deer, never had a problem with them. In fact I've joked that I could use my 1/8 twisted 22-250ai and a 62 gr TSX to shoot an elephant. I'm pretty confident in that combo.
My 223 is a 1/7 twist and I use 55's in it but haven't wasted any on coyote cause I don't have to.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 08, 2018, 06:41 AM:
Again, I have to ask. What's the prime motivation for switching to a mono metal bullet? Just never have been satisfied with the performance of conventional copper clad lead bullets or curiosity or regulations, or something else?
My particular attitude is something like, reinventing the wheel. I just want to understand the reason, a quest for knowledge, or something I haven't thought of?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on October 08, 2018, 09:40 AM:
If non-toxic bullets or shot is more better than lead ……….. Great !!!!
I just don't like the idea of being told that this is what you HAVE to use because WE decided what's best.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 08, 2018, 11:33 AM:
Well yeah. I'm ornery enough to decline using them even if they were demonstrably better, just because some policy wennie has decreed it be mandatory. Fuck that. But, okay, everybody has a choice and a free will and I wonder why we have this jumping on the band wagon by normally independent minded folks.
(Bret, you are excused)
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on October 08, 2018, 12:30 PM:
The reason I even tried the Barnes TSX is because when we started getting pigs in our area, everyone who knew anything about them said a 30-06 would bounce off a big boar. I didn't have a 30-06 but I did have a 223 so I tried the 55 gr TSX and found they killed pigs just fine as did Ballistic tips and everything else we tried.
But when I got the 22-250AI I ordered some 62's just in case of a bear attack. It is now my deer rifle setup if I ever go deer hunting again.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 08, 2018, 03:08 PM:
OKAY, FAIR ENOUGH. (oops)
But, the last hog I killed went 200, dropped him stone dead with my 223AI and 55 gr. Hornady VMax. Full disclosure/headshot, maybe that don't count?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on October 08, 2018, 08:23 PM:
Yep, pigs are pretty easy to kill if you hit em right. I've yet to see the gristle plate protecting their heart and lungs stop a 22 caliber bullet.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 09, 2018, 05:37 AM:
Interesting comment: "If I ever go deer hunting again" I'm slipping into that category where I don't really give a shit, for several reasons. But, never say never, and all that good shit.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on October 09, 2018, 07:11 AM:
Looks like the 70TSX cruising @3865 from the REDLINE, based on drop data, so I'll stick with that for deer duty...
Had a few 75 JLKs left over from chuck schwackin, and wanted to see what the POI delta was @ 200yds between the 75 @4K and the 70'@ 3865. BIG MISTAKE!!! That warp speed 75 JLK sizzled thru my AR-500 plate like a dang drill bit!!!
Least I learned POI shift is 1", between em.. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
[ October 09, 2018, 07:11 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on October 09, 2018, 07:15 AM:
Holy shit Fred !
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on October 09, 2018, 07:16 AM:
Holy shit Fred !
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 09, 2018, 09:42 AM:
Holy shit, Fred!
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 09, 2018, 09:43 AM:
Holy shit Fred!
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on October 09, 2018, 10:41 AM:
Not legal in California...sorry.
Mark
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on October 09, 2018, 02:47 PM:
Fred solid copper turned molten is how they defeat armored vehicles. At least that's what my cousin learned over yonder and how he tried to explain it to me.
On a side note, a friend shot his 338 Lapua on my steel (without my knowledge) but fortunately, it survived. This was 400 and 600 yards.
El Bee, I didn't even kill a coyote last year. I hope to get the urge to at least go if it ever cools off. But deer hunting with a gun? I'd rather shoot steel. I might bow hunt again but not just yet.
Posted by Eddie (Member # 4324) on October 10, 2018, 03:37 AM:
Tom you sick?
Never heard of a good Okie not hunting something in the woods.
Just bullshitting you, I got a friend that shoots steal he would rather do that than hunt. Me I never got into it, but everyone's different.
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on October 10, 2018, 04:40 AM:
Eddie we lost our youngest daughter a year ago on August the 28th. It changed our whole world.
I had started shooting some pistol matches a couple of months before and that has been about the only thing I do nowadays.
I'm getting the urge to start calling again but our weather hasn't cooperated at all, maybe after this weekend's cold front finally comes through.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 10, 2018, 06:34 AM:
My condolences, Tom. Losing a son or a daughter is as tough as losing a wife, and I know about that. You don't get over it.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on October 10, 2018, 09:04 AM:
Hurts to hear that Tom.
- DAA
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on October 10, 2018, 09:20 AM:
Damn, sorry to hear that Tom.
Mark
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on October 10, 2018, 05:10 PM:
Tom,
Really, really sorry to hear this...
I feel for you and your family.
Peace.
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on October 10, 2018, 06:52 PM:
Thanks guys, just keep us in your prayers and thoughts, it's been rough but we're gonna make it.
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on October 11, 2018, 04:31 AM:
Goodness, Tom...heart is aching for your family.
Posted by Eddie (Member # 4324) on October 11, 2018, 06:19 PM:
Sorry for your loss Tom, our prayers go out to you and your family.
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on October 12, 2018, 04:38 AM:
Tom so sorry to her that They are supposed to bury us not the other way around I lost a nineteen year old son 27 years ago I'd like to tell you it gets easier, it does not ! prayers for you and the family.
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