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Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on February 05, 2018, 06:01 PM:
 
What is your favorite rifle scope for coyotes?

Why did you choose this particular scope?

If buying new today, would you choose the same?
 
Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on February 05, 2018, 06:29 PM:
 
I haven't bought a scope in a while. I have used a Leupold 2x7 VX 2 quite a bit, perfect for my uses.

(edit) yes I would buy again. I like 22"-24" barrels & the little compact size works perfect me & looks good !!

Unless something has changed ? can't beat the eye relief of a Leupold & clear optics.

[ February 05, 2018, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]
 
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on February 05, 2018, 08:29 PM:
 
I run older Leupolds but have a couple Swarovskis and a Zeiss. Mostly laying around in the box. Im just lazy at mounting and sighting shit in nowdays.

I am running the Zeiss on a 22-250 calling rifle and really like it.

Mark
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 06, 2018, 06:09 AM:
 
Lone Howl, come on! While it's a bit helpful to know your brand loyalty, with this crowd, you have to be more specific.

Like, I have a Zeiss, but it's a 4.5X14X44 Conquest on my Ruger 77 which is chambered in plain vanilla 243Winchester.

See? Now, what you got?

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on February 06, 2018, 07:46 AM:
 
My favorite... Can't say I have a favorite. All my calling rifles wear 4.5-14's though. But, I consider that magnification range a compromise. For purely calling, 3.5x10's would have been better maybe. For that matter, 3x9 or 2x7 or even lower would be better for purely calling.

Most of them are Leupold, 4.5-14x40, with plain medium duplex. Also have a couple of the same 4.5-14x44 Zeiss Conquest that Leonard has.

For calling, they rarely leave 5X. I have not infrequently wished they would go lower than 4.5x though.

The Zeiss definitely has better glass. But the Leupolds are lighter and more compact and so I prefer them. I value the size and weight difference more than the optical quality difference.

All are set it and forget it, so I don't care how good or repeatable the clicks might or might not be. But the clicks probably suck a lot on all of them.

I personally prefer a plain duplex on a calling rifle scope. And not a fine one, either. Medium or heavy.

I chose them based on a combination of size, weight, magnification, optical quality, reliability and price. The 14x high end magnification was really a compromise to allow more precise load work and zeroing, along with the occasional varmint popping. For pure dedicated calling, I'd go lower power.

I have bought and used mostly Leupold. Which, is kind of strange, really. Because I don't really love anything about them.

I think the optical quality on these older Vx III's is "just okay". I own a lot of scopes with WAY better optical quality. I think the eye relief on them blows donkey dicks. The eye box is not forgiving on them and eye relief changes a lot with magnification. If not for the fact that I rarely change magnification on them, I might not have been able to live with them on the eye relief issue. But leaving them in one spot all the time, it's totally manageable.

The clicks, especially on these non-target models, are notoriously shitty and not to be trusted. But, if you are just going to set them and forget them, they are very reliable. Very.

Compared to other comparably priced and featured scopes, Leupold always seem to come out smaller and lighter. Which matters a lot to me, on a calling rifle. I absolutely despise big heavy over the top scopes on a trim calling rig. And in fact, consider these 4.5-14x40 Leupolds to be almost too big and heavy. The Zeiss, is definitely too big and too heavy for most of my calling rifles. They fit "okay" on the rifles I have them on, but I always wish they were smaller and lighter. Like the Leupolds. Glass is definitely better on the Ziess though, no doubt.

And of course, Leupold has a great warranty.

And, they aren't that expensive. Not cheap, but for the combination of features and warranty, really not badly priced.

So, like I said, there really isn't any one thing I think they are all that great at. But, comparing and considering everything, they seem to end up being the best compromise for my purposes pretty often.

None of the above were bought less than ten years ago.

I wouldn't buy any of them again today - unless maybe they were too cheap to pass up.

Things have changed. Scopes have gotten a lot better. I'm not up to date with whats really current. But the advent of 5x and 6x magnification ranges makes for a whole lot of much more appealing choices. Again, I am not up on current makes and models, but I have looked through enough newer scopes to say with absolute certainty that the optical quality has improved substantially.

I did buy a new scope just recently. For my new AR (which, the local gun store jacked me over on, and so I don't have it yet...). It's going to be a very general purpose all around machine gun. Will see more jackrabbit, ground squirrel and family plinking duty than coyote calling. But, it will see some calling duty, for sure. And, who knows, maybe I'll like it and use it more than expected.

Anyway... The scope I just bought is a Leupold VX5 HD 2-10x42 with a duplex "fire dot" reticle.

I didn't do any research to speak of. I just knew I wanted a lower powered variable under $1K. So I went to the local gun store and had them put everything they had that fit that description on the counter for me to play with. I was honestly trying to avoid a Leupold and trying to spend less. Thought going in that I'd be walking out with a Zeiss or maybe a Vortex. But, handling them all, looking through them all, it was that damn Leupold that really looked and felt right to me, so I bought it.

Optical quality on it is significantly superior to any of my "old" Leupolds. Huge difference, really. 2-10x ought to be a really great magnification range for intended use.

It has the fancy zero stop, BDS elevation turret. Clicks are soft, soggy mushy crap. Glad I'm just going to set it and forget it.

Had NO intention of getting a "fire dot" reticle walking in there. Hell, I didn't even know what one was. It caught my imagination for close in, fast moving work on jackrabbits though. Perhaps coyote too? Have not been able to use it yet. So don't know if it will live up to the hype in my mind. We'll see...

- DAA
 
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on February 06, 2018, 08:18 AM:
 
Been sold on Burris after some bad experiences I encountered with Leupold Product and customer service.. Never looked back And If I need another it will be a Burris. They seem to hold zero forever rare to have to adjust from season to season. Just check it and go hunt. good clear glass and light gathering.
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 06, 2018, 09:41 AM:
 
A 3-15x covers me more than adequately. 3x is plenty low to start off with in the woods, or on a tight quarters brushy stand. When sitting on a wide open 'out west' stand, I'll usually dial to ~5x and leave it there to start. If a coyote kinda starts swingin' out there, will maybe crank up to ~8x and that's plenty (for me) to feel good about a 2-300yd shot...

Prefer FFP, just because my 'ruler' works, regardless of mag. setting.

50mm obj. allows for enough exit pupil to keep that mag. range usable to near full darkness. Heck, sometimes I can look thru the scope, and see better & brighter than with naked eye...
 
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on February 06, 2018, 10:30 AM:
 
Im coy, sorry.
My calling rifles are all sporter weight 700's with 4x12 or 3x15-ish scopes on em.

I did dip into my call makin' cash and picked up this new loopold. Right off the bat I realized it is to much scope for my purposes, which I already knew but had to learn my lesson again I guess.

Way to big and heavy for a calling rifle, for me. Ill probly trade it or sell it for something smaller and lighter.

I do really like the Zeiss on my 22-250...HD5 I think? 3-15.
Mark

[IMG]  - LOOPY by Lonehowl, on Flickr[/IMG]
 
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on February 06, 2018, 10:36 AM:
 
I have also done the Nightforce thing as well, had a used one from a buddy, played with it all last summer. Great scopes but again, to much scope for me.

If I was building a long range gun of some kind or tactical competition rifle etc. then yes, totally practical.
Mark
 
Posted by MI VHNTR (Member # 3370) on February 06, 2018, 06:42 PM:
 
I'm using Leupold VX 2 3-9x40 on my Colt M4 5.56 NATO and a Bushnell Elite 4200 3-9x40 on my Ruger American Ranch 5.56.

I like both scopes but neither is being produced any longer.
 
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on February 06, 2018, 08:08 PM:
 
Thanks for the responses guys.

The reason I am asking about your scope selection is I've used a Leupold 3.5-10 for many years and have always had it has always been reliable.

A number of years ago, I had it retro-fitted for a CDS elevation turret and that's when the trouble started. At first, I thought it worked as advertised, but it has now been back to Leupold 3 times due to problems with the elevation turret. Binding up, not returning to zero, etc...

I'm not a long-range coyote sniper by any stretch, but I do like being able to dial and hold on fur if I have a hung up coyote at say 386 yards or simply dial and shoot some long range ground squirrels or steel targets.

I'm just about to the point where I think it might be wise to check my Leupold every time when I dial back to my 200 yard zero after I've dialed up for a distant shot. It's not proving to be real repeatable after many twists. When its working, its great though. It just seems to be limited use deal.

Another thing I've noticed over the past few years is the Leupold customer service doesn't seem to be what it once was. One trip back they did nothing to fix the problem on my scope so it went back again. Another time the wrong dial was made. Hell, one time I called and was #38 in line to talk to someone.

Anyway, all this got me to wondering what else is out there for a reliable, repeatable scope.
 
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on February 06, 2018, 08:35 PM:
 
As usual, Im no help to ya Lonny, Im not a knob turner.
Although Im tempted sometimes.
Mark
 
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on February 06, 2018, 09:07 PM:
 
Mark, I'm not really a spinner either, but the option is there if I need it and it is kinda fun.

If I was being dumped off in the Alaskan bush for a bush for a few years and wanted to make my living as a wolfer, my current scope wouldn't be my first choice. I could probably get by with a Leupold straight 6X though.

It seems like the more new-fangled high-tech shit a guy gets the more trouble one has with equipment?

Get a second job and buy a Nightforce maybe?
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 07, 2018, 06:25 AM:
 
Wow! A lot of food for thought!

Really sad to hear that we may have problems at Leopold with the #1 selling point, the warranty. Number 38? Does that indicate a lot of problems with Leopold scopes?

For calling. Well, some mention of a straight 6X. I used to have one on my first 6MM that was stolen, never seen again, but loved that scope.

I also love a Leopold 3.5X10. That's what is on my 300, and has been for about 30 years. I used one or two for many years for night hunting. The power ring, feeling it in the dark, I was always confident knowing the post was straight up at 5X, and used that as a battle setting. Might want more sometimes and less other times but 5X worked 80% of the time.

I have a Model 700 in 223Ackley that I used as a "go to" for daylight stands and it has a perfectly agreeable 2.5X8 Leupold on top. I put it away about 5 years ago because of a runner. That's all it took because I have never been sold on 223 for anything and punching it to Ackley gained me 50fps. BFD. Anyway, maybe for gray fox, that rig is adequate? Even with my steadfast rule to never use 50 grain bullets on coyotes, in the daytime. The 2.5X8 seems perfect for that gun.

I could talk all day about night calling scopes but I don't think anybody cares? Okay, one comment. I have no use for more than 12X at night, the 4.5X14 scopes that I have, pretty much the high end is reserved for load work up and sighting in.

One comment about Nightforce. Overpriced and way too bulky for my taste. I agree that Bushnell has made vast improvement since the days of the Bushnell Banner 3X9. Their Elite models seem to have very good optics.

What has this world come to if you can't depend on Leupold as be all and end all, go to optics? That's another thing, is it just snob appeal for the reason to bolt a 30mm scope on a calling rifle? I'm just saying; I'm not embarrassed to break out a rig with a one inch tube.

If we think about it, for pure simplicity, optics on a calling rifle are more complicated than previous. For instance, I recently saw a writeup on a (I think?) a 1X8 or something like that for two grand. Seems the manufacturers have moved beyond the 3X variable and 5X. A scope with a straight tube, without a larger objective is a difficult concept for many of us old timers.

I will say this. European scopes are hot shit, but they don't give them away. For most calling, seems way overkill?

Daytime scopes for coyotes? Everybody has their own idea but like that photo above,it's easy to buy and put too much scope on a rifle intended for the coyote stand. But don't forget, what works in McNeal might not be adequate in Elko.

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: I just noticed that my spellchecker has been helping me out and correcting Leupold for me! Pisses me off!

[ February 07, 2018, 06:28 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 07, 2018, 07:19 AM:
 
Lonny, your tale of woe regarding Leopold and 'CDS' turrets is not unique.

Nightforce has made good strides with more 'hunter friendly' reticle options.

IMHO, all the more reason to employ a FFP scope. Simply stated, when your 'ruler' (reticle) subtends correctly at any magnification setting, you've got a wonderful tool to help make those "long-ish" shots. Assuming you have a grasp on your loads drop data, nothing is faster than just holding that value with your 'ruler' against the target...

Not that those shot opportunities happen very often, but if you know your crosshairs are ''zeroed" at 200yds, and the first hash mark of your 'ruler' below x-hair is @ 325yds, and the one below that is dead on @ 405yds, then you've got an instant bullet drop correction right in front of your eyeball. Same as an archer using a multi-pin sight to bracket between 'known' yardages of each pin, ya just hold over, according to target distance...

Granted, a SFP scope can do the same, BUT the subtensions of the 'ruler' only measure true at a certain "X" magnification...usually max. mag. on </=15x scopes. So, that limitation kinda defeats the purpose of having a 'ruler' reticle in the first place...

[ February 07, 2018, 07:21 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
 
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on February 07, 2018, 09:14 AM:
 
Fred, different strokes!

I've never clicked on a coyote. And I gave up on holding over anymore too.

For me, if it ain't point blank, I didn't call it, so I'm just not that interested. I can't shoot well enough to consistently make good hits beyond my rigs point blank range anyway.

And I'm just not that mad at them. If I have to just let a coyote walk, because he's far enough out that I have to consider hold over, "oh well". I don't usually really want to spend the time to walk a quarter mile each way just to retrieve a coyote anyway. I just don't get any joy from killing one I didn't call. Crossers always get a free pass from me.

Flip side, I really do not like a "busy" reticle on a hunting rifle. Just don't like to see any extra adornment in that sight picture. A plain reticle, heavy enough to stand out against busy brush backgrounds or when being panned quickly for a running shot, is all I ever want to see when I nestle into the stock. Christmas trees and such just bother me. But, I have a narrow focus, and they serve no purpose I have any interest in.

FFP would be fine, for me. I don't own one, but I can't think of an inherent down side, either. As long as it wasn't too fine at lowest magnification. I'd just want it to be a plain reticle, is all.

Only slight side track here, but...

A buddy recently put together a neat scope fixture, to statically test tracking and zero shift with magnification change. No surprise, cheap scopes tend to fare the worst. But also no surprise, high price and big name is no guarantee of good tracking or minimal zero shift either. Chances are better, with the expensive big name, but don't take it for granted - a lot of them test out pretty crappy too.

But of the scopes he has specifically tested and commented on recently,, a Bushnell Elite 3200 was among the worst, along with two Vortex PST 2 models he just bought. He says this testing fixture is forcing more of his money to NF.

My NF scopes are very old. They don't even resemble the current models. They're ancient BR models. But they passed my box tests and all day knob twirling sessions on colony varmints with flying colors. The clicks, compared to my newest Leupold VX5, are so crisp and clean, they just aren't even on the same planet. Really, the clicks on that fancy Leupold elevation dial feel like mushy garbage. I don't need to test them to know they are going to suck. The optical quality of those old BR models is way better than the NXS scopes I've looked through too. They are ginormous things though and probably not all that "rugged" for all their size and weight. Fantastic glass and really good clicks though!

- DAA
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 07, 2018, 10:50 AM:
 
Those 'old' Nightforce BR scopes still hold their own!
To tie into what ya said about not holding over, I can agree there, too. If ya got a frozen rope in hand like a .17Predator, the likelihood of having to hold over on stand is greatly diminished. Heck, that why we build hotrods, right!?!

To apply that logic, I actually have a SFP Minox 3-15x56 on my 17Predator Why? Because for the times I'll carry that rifle on stand, and where it's zeroed, I'll literally never have to hold over on a coyote. That scope has a plain ol' duplex reticle, with illumination. The glass is crazy bright at low light, and the price was right. Viola, a dandy compliment to a fast & flat shootin' cartridge that wasn't meant for much more than 350yd shooting...

Now, if I have something like the 6x45AI in hand, which shoots like a thrown water ballon compared to the .17P, it's nice to have a 0.5mil hash to reference on a 250yd+ coyote. Not that I shoot a lot of live coyotes at all, but I do shoot enough metal ones to note the advantages of a FFP for beyond MPBR shots, regardless of what that distance actually is...

Not trying to sell anyone on a super-busy 'tactical' reticle for coyote shooting, just making mention that there are some FFP reticles that do a great job, without lookin' like a hot mess!

The Gen2Mildot is one:
 -

[ February 07, 2018, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 07, 2018, 11:56 AM:
 
I don't like to move my settings when I'm hunting, especially coyotes. That's also why I want a flat shooting cartridge with a short midrange. First focal plane scopes bug the hell out of me.

If I have to hold over as long as I'm still on hair, that's ok. Same as with windage. Most of my coyotes don't allow me to dial in the exact range.

That's true what Dave said about moving a Leupold. Mushyis a good description. It's just a sliding notch and conveys no confidence without verifying it with a shot.

I really don't want to shoot a coyote beyond 400 anyway. I'm looking at it from the point of view of a contest, that's my background. It's diminishing returns. If I take that shot, he better be laying out there where I can find him without wasting time.

These snipers have stupid coyotes that wait until you get dialed in, maybe break out the rangefinder to be sure, then count the clicks? I can't say that I've never done it, but I doubt it.

And, I don't like a busy reticle but I'm not wild about heavy crosshairs either. You can do enough range finding with a duplex reticle if you have the specifications, how wise if the center fine crosshairs, and what's the width of the heavy part of the duplex. Always if you have enough time, but it won't work if you first family comes in to 75 yards but by the time you are basing away at #3, he's out there are a cool 375 or so. Point is, you have to guesstimate; or just watch him get over the hill while you are moving the turret. Sorry, I'll never get around to that stuff.

I killed six coyotes on one stand, one time. I doubt if the furthest one was much over 225 yards? And, I had to single load after the first four shots. That was a real clusterfuck, this coyotes acted like the keystone cops.

Anyway, everybody has their own idea on what's the best glass, that's for sure.

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 08, 2018, 04:37 PM:
 
I've bought SWFA Super Chickens for the last 5 or 6 scopes I've bought. Alright their called Super Snipers but thats a stupid name.

I first bought a fixed 10x in the Classic line to see what they were all about and the first thing I noticed was my groups were always in the same place. Tracking was spot on the first time and everytime. Glass quality was not too far off from my MK4 Leupolds and VX3's. Great for a $250 scope to bang steel but too much power for a calling rifle and the MilQuad reticle was a little faint. They also weigh 20 oz. and are a bit bigger than my 3.5-10's but what they offer in return is worth the trade off.

I bought a 6x to hunt with and it worked just as well but offered better FOV and a darker reticle. Then I decided I wanted to try the 3-9 HD version. Both lines are made in Japan but the HD version is made to higher specs and are absolutely worth the extra money. Black Friday and April 15th they run a sale on them for $459, I wound up buying 3 of the 3-9's and have no regrets.

These have different turrets on them and a better finish, HD glass and are still bomb proof. I love the MilQuad reticle for holding windage and dial as far as I want to. I shoot steel some but if you don't dial and just hunt, the turrets are not really in the way. You can even take them off and cap them with a rubber cap like some have done. The 3-9's do have horrible tunneling at 3x but it completely disappears at 4x, the only negative I've found.

Sizewise they weigh 19 oz. compared to 14 oz of the 3.5-10's I was used to. The Kimber Montana on the left here wears one while the Kimber Montana on the right wears a Leupold VX3 3.5-10, my former favorite do it all scope.
 -

Leupold no longer repairs scopes, it's cheaper for them to replace with a VX3i version and the new ones are hit or miss on reliablity from what I've read. I'm done taking chances.

Probably not the best scope out there but still a solid choice and when you consider they are half the price of the next closest thing, it's not hard to pick.

I still have 2 VX6 1-6 scopes on machine guns and one 1.5-5 vx3 on my supressed 22. One of the VX6's has been dialed with the CDS dial some but I'm always waiting for it to take a dump. I did call to get a different reticle in one of the 1-6's and the custom shop said, "yes we can do a German #1 in that for $60." I sent it in and got a call a few weeks later saying we can't do that reticle but here are the options ranging from $90-300. I told them to just send it back and they decided since they quoted me $60 they could put an SPR reticle in it for that and they did. So much for Leupold's customer service. Leupold has seen the last of me.

It's amazing what you can do when you have confidence in your equipment.
 
Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on February 08, 2018, 05:07 PM:
 
another user of the Leupold 4.5x14x40 and most everything except I did get a real good deal on a Zeiss 3x15x44 HD5 that I do like. Can't tell that it's any better or worse than my Leupolds.
 
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on February 08, 2018, 05:42 PM:
 
I'm hoping that the latest fix on my VX3 holds, but honestly at this point I'm always going to be a bit suspect.

Tom64-Good to see you around again. The SWFA 3-9 had caught my eye. Good to know about the April 15 sale. Thanks

Like many mentioned, I'm not into busy reticles. The S&B that Fred posted would work for me though. I could also like the illumination.

The Nightforce SHV in the 3-10ish range along with their Forceplex reticle, which looks just like a standard duplex has also caught my eye. Unfortunately no illumination on that one yet. Price ain't bad for a working stiff like me either.

Like I said earlier, I dial dang little on coyotes.. Maybe 1 or 2 a year and that is mostly when they hang up and won't be coming any closer. But a guy wants his system to work and most importantly go back to zero when done.
 
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 09, 2018, 05:42 AM:
 
Lonny it's good to be back.
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 09, 2018, 08:32 AM:
 
I'm okay with Tom. [Wink] Good post, knows what he's talking about. Lone howl probably does too, but we got to pry it out of him!
(just kidding, buddy)

About illumination. I'm not sold on it. The few times I thought it would be a benefit, it turned into a liability, practically blinded me! Could be my fault but for now I think it's a feature more suited to military sniping than hunting coyotes. An illuminated reticle has value while hunting deer, mainly because they move slower when twilight is fading. A coyote, on the other hand is liable to be moving a lot faster and a lot harder to track when you can't make out your crosshairs. Then you switch on the illumination and can't see a damned thing except red!

Everybody has their idea on magnification. I like a lot, and I'm usually comfortable with it until things start getting exciting. By that time, forget about turning power rings, you have to play the cards you are dealt.

Really sad to hear the complaints about Leupold. Seems like success has gone to their head. A real shame too, since top of the line ain't $400 bucks anymore you are looking at more than TWO GRAND! For that kind of money, and shaky customer service? I gotta think about that shit!

But, for what it's worth, I'm not a knob twister. I work with the reticle and aim into wind or hold over when I think I need it. This is a split second decision, for me. I can't be fucking with knobs I can't even read while Mr Coyote is just about to get over the hill.

Well, everybody has a different theory, whatever blows your skirt up.

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on February 09, 2018, 11:29 AM:
 
Illumination is just away to sell battery's other than cool to look at red and green, so
when light is low I look through the scope what a difference from my old cataract ridden eyes. really pulls the light in .
 
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on February 09, 2018, 11:31 AM:
 
Hey Tom 64 good to see you post again ! always good info !
 
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 09, 2018, 11:49 AM:
 
"It's amazing what you can do when you have confidence in your equipment."

Now, there's a nugget that should be carved into stone !!
 
Posted by Eddie (Member # 4324) on February 09, 2018, 08:32 PM:
 
Well look what the dogs drug in, good to see you back Tom. Sight just got a little better with another Okie.
 
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on February 10, 2018, 06:29 AM:
 
No doubt! Good to see you Tom.

- DAA
 
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 10, 2018, 11:17 AM:
 
Thanks guys
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 10, 2018, 12:11 PM:
 
Yeah, even "He who shall not be named" misses you!
 
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 10, 2018, 02:20 PM:
 
I bet he does...
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 10, 2018, 05:48 PM:
 
Well, it seems like he does. And, he follows this Board, he has already responded to your last comment saying he doesn't hold a grudge. I don't know what is meant by that and if you don't either, that's fine. He did mention something about turning you on to Super Sniper scopes. Myself, I've never heard of them until this thread. I'm a rather firm believer in that you get what you pay for, especially in optics. It's not always the optical quality, the durability and craftsmanship are very important to me. Especially with this talk about Leupold. That's actually disturbing.

At one time, even though I highly value Kahles scopes, I was told that service begins somewhere back east and of unknown duration. Of course, that was probably 20 years ago and I've lately heard that many European manufacturers have adequate repair facilities this side of the Atlantic nowadays.

Anyway, Valentine's Day is approaching and I know he would appreciate a card.

Glad to help.
Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 10, 2018, 07:51 PM:
 
I can't recall any grudges, if you'll remember I voted to keep him around for the entertainment.

Unless he goes by BigStick and lives in Alaska, I don't remember him ever mentioning super chickens. Larry (BigStick) got my attention when he started taking 22's out past 300 yards. 75 MOA rails and fixed super chickens will get you out there.

This was only 2 years or so ago that I bought my first one, maybe 3 years. Me and Cuzz strung up steel plates out to 800 yards and that got me interested in twisting turrets but also pointed out several issues with my Leupold scopes.

If he who shall not be named talked up the super chickens, I totally missed it and may very well have.

All I do know is I'm very happy with them.
 
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 11, 2018, 06:51 AM:
 
Ok...............He Who Shall Not Be Named has been standing in the corner for a long time.
How about we let him back in on probation and give him, say, a limit of 50 characters a month ??
Loyalty should count for something.
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 11, 2018, 07:06 AM:
 
It's okay by me. I was reluctant to withdraw his posting privileges in the first place. It was group vigilanteism that strung him up. As a caution, I could always take away his vowels. That worked wonders with Nistetter.

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on February 11, 2018, 08:29 AM:
 
Let's take a vote..

NO
now I'm locking this thread!
Mark
 
Posted by Aaron Rhoades (Member # 4234) on February 11, 2018, 09:38 AM:
 
Leonard, on the Kahles scopes, I bought a older unused helia c 3.5-10x50 a while back and while it is a nice clear scope, the first time I cleaned the lenses, they scratched badly. I continued using it, then had it sitting on a shelf for a while, then finally decided to see about getting it fixed. I called the number, which it turns out is Swarovski, in Rhode Island I believe. They said send it in, I sent it, they got it, they call, said they’ll have to ship it to Austria to fix and it’ll be $400. I said $400? It’s not worth that to me, I’ll buy another scope for that price and the glass won’t scratch, if I wanted a throwaway scope I would’ve bought a vortex. He says he check with higher ups, they apparently authorized to repair for $200, so I did it. Took several months but I got it back and the lense coatings are much better on this one. I still don’t like the scope though. It doesn’t have a parallax adjustment and anything close I have a hard time with.
 
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on February 11, 2018, 09:55 AM:
 
We are a Swaro dealer thru work and I just dropped 10G's on glass for some of our customers. I noticed they had Kahles in the order book and the rep told me that they handle that now, or own them or whatever?
But yeah, these euro optic people have places setup for distrubuting glass here in the states, but repairs go to the factorys in Europe. And it aint cheap! Buddy sent 12x50 binos in for refurbish..like 800 bucks later they were done...geez.
Mark

[ February 11, 2018, 09:59 AM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]
 
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 11, 2018, 11:51 AM:
 
I was under the impression my Swaro binocs we're covered with a lifetime warranty, are they not?
 
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on February 11, 2018, 12:02 PM:
 
A "refurbish" is gonna cost you. Also, its a limited lifetime guarantee.
If a breakage occurs with the optical system, they warrant it for 10 years. Anything else you send em in and they determine whether or not it is warranty- able..due to materials/craftsmanship or abuse. Thats in a nutshell.
Mark
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 11, 2018, 05:35 PM:
 
The Kahles I have is a 3X12X56, considered the last word in night scopes, excepting starlight, I guess? Anyway, it's easily the equal of a Swarovoski or a Zeiss. By far the best night scope I own. In fact, that's what it is made for and the market is hunting at night from those wood stands you see in Europe overlooking open fields at the edge of a forest. I guess it's a lot like Texas in that there is a lot of wilderness and forest between towns.

I have thought of sending it in for cleaning but not for $800, since I don't really think it needs it anyway. I've never had a problem with scratches on the lenses but you have to be real careful what you use to clean them, I would never use any type of paper even if they say that they are for cleaning lenses.

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on February 11, 2018, 06:34 PM:
 
I have a fixed power Leupold in 8x and 7.5x. Shot the 8x on my .22.250 for many years. Duplex cross hairs on those scope.

I also have a Leupold Vari-x III in 6.5-20x x 40mm with target turrets and varmint reticle.

I shoot a Zeiss Conquest 6.5-20x x 50mm on my .243. Absolutely love the glass quality.

With my latest rifle, a custom .22/6mm, I spent an enormous time researching scopes. First I thought I was going to get a Kahles (too big for coyotes) then thought Athlon Cronus (still too big and possible tracking concerns). I have finally settled on one of two scopes.

My first choice, if money was no object would be a NightForce ATACR - C544 4-14x50 in 2nd FP with MOAR reticle and 34mm tube.

My second choice, and the scope I will probably get will be a NightForce SHV - C522 4-14x56 in 2nd FP with MOAR reticle and 30 mm tube.

My research priorities were #1 mechanical reliability, #2 optical quality, #3 a fine reticle that could give me references for quick ranging on coyotes moving away and measurable hold over references as well as windage hash marks that are measurable to use as leads on running coyotes.

I absolutely love the NF MOAR reticle.

Only concern with the NF SHV C522 is whether the clicks will be as reliable as they are on the NF ATACR C544. The difference in price is $1100 for the NF SHV C522 and $2328 for the NF ATACR C544.

Going with second focal plane because the ranging ability is true on full power (14x) and 1/2 values on 1/2 power (7x). This way I won't be covering coyotes with thick crosshairs at long range and can find crosshairs at close range under lower light.

For any of you looking to do some research on scopes, there is an excellent scope review at Precision Rifle Blog - Tactical Scope Review and Test Results.

The parameters of this scope review and test were set up by the tactical shooting community and the test results reflected those parameters. This removed any possible bias and gave priority to those features which were of the most importance to the majority of shooters. Highest emphasis was placed on mechanical reliability followed by optical quality. Excellent study for anyone looking at buying a tactical scope. It is a little outdated by now with newer scopes coming out continually but still a good reference.

I tried to find a balance between the high end tactical scope features and the hunting scope features I am used to and the above scopes are where my search finally ended, MAYBE.

~SH~

[ February 11, 2018, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 11, 2018, 07:58 PM:
 
I have a couple US Optics scopes, one is 5X25X56 illuminated with a 35mm tube, it's a beast. Just a pair of those rings cost over $500, very rugged. I really don't remember how much the scope cost right now but it was well north of $2,000?

Anyway, I think tactical and hunting are a little different. Yes, ruggedness is important, but I would place the optical quality first. I'm exMilitary but that stuff is serious and hunting is, (umm) sporting, recreational.

I really think the sniper crowd has a totally different mission and some equipment has crossover application, but not all. Now, being about to mount night vision in front of a scope like this opens some possibilities, but I'm not that interested for the cost of it. Not for coyotes.

I'm not familiar with the Nightforce models talked about? I've looked at and through some of their scopes, but I don't get it? They impress me as like a highly polished, expensive Weaver.

Another thing, daytime coyote hunting really actually doesn't require extremely high dollar glass. If it wasn't such an expensive reticle, the one I'd like to play around with is the Horus Vision. Fuck all those clicks...but then the problem is clutter. Out of the question for night hunting, but I could see some application for South Dakota type conditions, flat and way out yonder.

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on February 12, 2018, 03:10 AM:
 
I have a couple US Optics scopes, one is 5X25X56 illuminated with a 35mm tube, it's a beast. Just a pair of those rings cost over $500, very rugged. I really don't remember how much the scope cost right now but it was well north of $2,000?

Closer to 3k
 
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 12, 2018, 08:45 PM:
 
Scott have you looked at the Bushnell LRHS scopes? They are being discontinued for a new version but there are some deals out there right now. They have a solid rep for tracking and holding zero.

A guy on another forum has tested the NF SHV line and they held up for his crew. His list of proven scopes are

Failures or issues with these scopes are extremely rare-

1). Nightforce NXS/ATACR/BEAST

2). Bushnell LRHS, HDMR/DMR, ERS, XRS

3). SWFA SS 6x, 10x, 1-6x, 3-9x, 5-20x

4). S&B fixed 10x PM

5). Hensoldts

6). Older Leupold fixed power Mark 4's/Ultra's

He goes by Formidilosus on 24hourcampfire and is well regarded.

Leonard I remembered the one who shall not be named used Kenton knobs on his scopes, not anything about the super chickens but my cousin has been using them on his older varixIII scopes without any issues. Maybe that will make him smile.
 
Posted by Brent Parker (Member # 4354) on February 13, 2018, 06:42 AM:
 
For my fur rifle I am currently running a Tikka T3X in .223 I am running a Swaro Z3 4-12x50. Great scope good glass BRH reticle. Will probably sell it off after season and go to a Nightforce SHV 4-14x50 F1. I prefer to have illumination since I night hunt as well and like to have the option to dial if I need it. For my spring time rifle I use a S&B 3-20x50 Ultra short. There are no compromise in my opinion on this scope and does everything I need. If I had to Pick just one it would be my S&B and make it work for everything. As far as I'm concerned lifes to short to look thru shitty glass. Ran a Leupold Mark 6 for a while. Went back twice for tracking issues.
 
Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on February 14, 2018, 05:47 AM:
 
No Tom, I am not Familiar with the Bushnell models but I will have to check them out. I am assuming most of these scope brands are improving their quality control.

~SH~
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 14, 2018, 06:58 AM:
 
I don't know that the durability of a scope is essential? First of all, I always have another rifle with me in case of problems. And, I don't hunt the back side of the moon, so I'm not worried much about mailing a scope I happened to break in half just picking it up. For me, actual failures are rare, I have sent in a scope for some type of attention maybe 3 or 4 times in all these years?

And Scott, I don't know anybody else who owns a Leupold straight 7.5X? Mine has been on a lot of different rifles. I love that scope!

Here's a question I don't recall being asked, here or anywhere? Tell us the scopes you have on the shelf, how long and why? I don't mean some POS you never will mount and use, but scopes you might have on "stand by" and you have no intention of throwing away. Thinking about it, maybe there's a good reason why it hasn't been asked, other than curiosity? Hardly useful information. And, maybe I should start thinning the herd? You know, who wants a polished scope anymore?

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 14, 2018, 10:20 AM:
 
I don't have any scopes on the shelf.

But scope failure can mean a missed shot at the trophy of a lifetime or worse, a cripple.

I'm done with wondering if it's the conditions or if my scope got bumped like I did with my Leupolds. I'd go confirm zero and my group would be off just a little, never thought it could be my scope drifting till I tried the super chickens and once zeroed, they stay zeroed. I've yet had to make any zero adjustments even after twisting the knobs.

The extra weight and bulk pay off in confidence.
 
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on February 14, 2018, 01:05 PM:
 
I don't trust the clicks on my garden variety Leupolds. But, have to say, I've not had one that hasn't been diddled with just shift zero on it's own.

My main squeeze, I check zero once every year or two. It hasn't needed an adjustment since the first day at the range when it got zeroed fifteen years ago. Ditto my other regular use Leopold's. If I set them and forget them, I don't need to worry, they just don't move on their own. Hasn't happened to me anyway, yet.

Not a fanboy, belive me. But, mine, if not diddled with, never move.

Diddle with them though, and all bets are off...

Scopes are such snakes though. It's just good policy not to ever trust any of them. One scope on my buddies fixture, had a really insidious issue. As the magnification is changed up and down, the elevation gradually moves down (POI would then go up). No clicks involved. Just simply changing magnification back and forth, causes it to gradually shift elevation.

It's one of the ones that has been mentioned as desirable in this thread...

- DAA
 
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 14, 2018, 02:54 PM:
 
My Experience is about like Dave’s. All my guns now have Leupold VX3’s on them. Have not had any problems with them holding zero. I to shoot paper about once a year to check zero and I have yet to have to move them. I also have a couple CDS turrets on guns. Never had any problem with them. I’m sure I’ve just been damn lucky but I like them. I know they are far from the best scope out there but the cost, glass quality, and reliability have been worth it for me....

Good Hunting Chad
 
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 14, 2018, 03:04 PM:
 
Mine were newer VX3 CDS scopes and I did dial them some. My cousin is still using varix-III 6.5-20's with Kenton dials. He has an 800 yard range in his backyard and has yet to have any issues but he's had a vx3 lose zero, it jumped 20" high. Checked mounts and gun, sighted back in and it seemed ok. Missed a really nice buck cause it jumped 20" high again.

He was tickled that Leupold replaced it... The new one has worked good for him.
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 14, 2018, 04:14 PM:
 
I really like to verify my zero. Sometimes, I need to tweak but I attribute it to ambient temperatures and particularly a change in elevation. Sighting in at sea level doesn't do much good if I'm driving 5 or 600 miles and might be hunting at 4,600ft elevation.

So, my situation might be different because I hunt out of state most of the time. But, I never really pondered that my scopes were losing zero mysteriously due to internal problems. But conditions are not static, and maybe even my temperature sensitive propellant could be responsible. It's a big tent to conclude that these things are due to voodoo.

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 14, 2018, 07:59 PM:
 
Voodoo is probably right.

A few years ago I sold my son in law my Remington 700 Mountain Guide gun in 7-08 complete with a Leupold VX3 3.5-10 CDS scope. He doesn't shoot much so he has me check his zero every year. I get sellers regret every time I woller out a hole dead center year after year. It hasn't moved a lick so there are good ones out there.

I still have another one on my 204 Montana that has an M1 elevation dial and it too stays on. I just wish I could trust the company like I once did.
 
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on February 14, 2018, 07:59 PM:
 
I have two 3-10 VX-3's and both have CDS. One on a big game rifle hardly ever gets spun, but gets dialed about once a year when I shoot to check how its doing at longer ranges. So far it has worked as advertised. I've never used the turret in a hunting situation though.

The other VX3, on my coyote rifle, has proven to be the problem child. Both in how it works and how Leupold fixes it. Right now it works, but who knows if it will a few months down the road?

I'm in the neighborhood of having spent around $80 on shipping and insurance. Not to mention time going to the post office, packaging the scope up, on the phone with Leupold, and a fair amount of burned ammo and time sighting back in and chasing scope problems.

I'm pretty much burned out with it and looking for something more dependable if I want to play with a turret.

I've never had any trouble with a Leupold holding zero. The "garden variety" Leupolds that DAA mentioned, must not be built robust enough to take much dial spinning though.
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 15, 2018, 09:31 AM:
 
First, I'd switch scopes. You can't afford to miss a coyote!
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 15, 2018, 02:32 PM:
 
Quick story about a scope I really like...

It's a (discontinued) Premier 'Hunter' 3-15x50 FFP scope. Got drawn for a limited public land muzzleloader tag in Oklahoma, last fall. So, I swapped my favorite hunting scope onto the smokepole, just in case I had to pull off some kinda long-ish shot. I'd already taken a few deer out to almost 300 with that ML, therefore confident in abilities...

Anyhoo, to facilitate swappin' that scope onto my Encore .50cal, I mounted a (one pc.) Picatinny rail/base onto that barrel. That allows for a quick-change/swap with any other Picatinny rail. I used a 0 MOA 'flat' base, which turned out to be my undoing...

Well, upon mounting the scope & shooting to achieve 100yd 'zero' on the (covered) elevation turret, had to dial in ALOT of correction. To the point that, little did I know, it actually bottomed out the erector. To the point that I couldn't keep a consistent 'zero'...
So, short story gettin' longer, I thought that scope had shit the bed on me...and I was PISSED. But first, wanted to check it back on the rifle it came off...my .22-243AI. Swapped it back on, and hit the range...
Got 'zeroed' back to 100yds in 2 shots, then referenced my dope. Dialed in 500yd steel coyote silhouette and friggn' smoked it.

Dialed to 600yds...smoked the steel dead center.
Dialed back to 'zero' and ragged the hole out @ 100yds.
Dialed up to 700yds, and smoked the steel
Dialed up to 800yds, smoked it.
Back down to 100yds, cloverleafed the first 2 holes.
Dialed back up to 900, then 1K, and smoked the steel again...

SOOOoooo...pretty much proved the scope was G2G! That established, went back to check out if base came loose. Upon inspection, I noticed that the base was actually canted upwards??? It only installs one way, so I couldn'ta fucked that up. Turns out, the area where the base and barrel mated up was not exact. That caused the base to bend 'up' at the front, which in turn would require the scope's erector to be adjusted drastically to correct that...
My fault for not noticing that the base was goobered up. Quick fix was to get a 20 MOA base to add to 'correction' back into the situation, and hope it mated up better. Well, that 20MOA base did soak up the positive cant angle, but it did require it to be bedded in order to have 100% contact area with the barrel. Now, that 20 MOA base is sitting more like a flat base, but it allows the scope to be 'zeroed' in the middle of the scope's erector travel. Best part was, that scope didn't break, it still dials UP/DOWN like a champ. Holds 'zero' every time, and the glass is something to behold. Happy days!!!
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 15, 2018, 03:01 PM:
 
Is that like a Leopold Hybrid?

Were you using a steel pica tinny or aluminum? The Al would have been less likely to bend.

So, that Okie hunt was open to non residents?

Don't get me started on the discrimination by the State of Nevada towards non residents hunting bobcats. This allows one guy up there to turn in 400 a season! How fair is that shit?

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 15, 2018, 04:07 PM:
 
Premier is now Tangent Theta, and is supposedly even better than ever...

Buying a yearly non-res licensee allows entry into lottery hunts. We put in as a group with my bud and uncle, and we all drew an 'either-sex' tag. Hunt was only 48hrs, and public land WMA only. I got lucky and spot & stalked a funky buck. It was the biggest one we'd seen, so happy to take it...
 -

My bud got a decent one, too. Uncle didn't see one big enough. Really fun hunt, especially considering the farmland I'm useta huntin' back here...
 
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on February 16, 2018, 02:56 AM:
 
Good job Fred Nice buck!
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 16, 2018, 05:16 AM:
 
Thanks, Paul!

Back to the scope topic...

I mentioned a fondness for the Minox ZX5i 3-15x56 on the .17P. , so I also grabbed a ZX5i 2-10x50 on closeout. Well, the illumination on that one shit the bed almost immediately. Nothing wrong, optically, it tracks and holds zero...just that the rheostat for the lit reticle is in a state of constant "ON". Called Minox, in Texas, and hafta ship scope there. Then, they send one shipment a month back to Germany for repair. So, this fix is gonna be several months in the process...

Also, had a nice Kahles 2-10x50 Multizero that got tough to adjust the elevation on. Sent that back, through Swarovski, to fix the cam in the multizero elevation turret. Got it back in a few months, mounted in on a 6.5SAUM and hunted with it for a season with no issues. Wound up selling that combo to a friend, and he put a few hundred rounds thru it in preparation for our elk hunt, last fall. He also used it to spot and stalk pronghorn, out on the CO Prairies...

Well. when we got up on the mountain for our elk hunt, we naturally all wanted to check 'zero' on our rifles. Ya know, just to be 100% confident! When he shot thru the Kahles, he missed by about 3FEET @ 100yds. NOT GOOD...
Turned out, the ocular had become loose to the point where you could actually look thru it and watch the reticle wobble while ya turned it.
FUCK.
Only thing we could figure is that something let go while bellycrawling for goats. The ocular on that scope is adjustable, but did not have a locking ring, so it was likely screwing back & forth during carry/stalks. Or, something to that effect...

Thankfully, he had along a backup .270, and it was G2G. The 5x5 he shot with it died well and tasted even better!!!

Moral of the story? All scopes can and will fail.
 
Posted by Grizz (Member # 4626) on February 17, 2018, 09:44 AM:
 
I mounted a NightforceNXS 2.5-10×42 COMPACT on my custom AR day light rifle great glass. Just rebarreled my Sako 220 Swift truck gun mounting a Nightforce NXS 3.5-15x 50 with illuminated mill dot on that one. One of my 22-250 truck guns has a Schmidt Bender Long range 4-16x50 best glass I've ever looked through. Rick
 
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on March 06, 2018, 05:46 AM:
 
Just a heads up for Scott or anyone else for that matter. The Bushnell LRHS is being discounted bt half.

http://forum.snipershide.com/threads/gap-deal-on-bushnell-lrhs-scopes.6875083/
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 11, 2018, 08:31 AM:
 
Okay, have we exhausted the subject? It's an important one, and as far as I am concerned, we have barely scratched the surface. Over the years, I have hunted coyotes with many different scopes with a variety of reticles. There is a constant, in that the power range hasn't varied a whole lot, and the fact that a man can usually get by with a plain vanilla duplex crosshairs.

Just a little peek into the attitude, sitting on stand, I can mention that I am usually comfortable with an initial setting at about 5X, depending on the situation where I decided to sit down. But, just like everybody else, I am interested in knowing what the rest of you are doing, even if it doesn't actually change my habits.

So, if there is anything that you feel has been left out, that is important in advising a newbie, so he doesn't make a mistake and be forced to live with it.

Personally, I think it's pretty obvious that the most common mistakes are too much magnification and too large of an objective, putting the scope height at a level difficult to reach on a snap shot.

In short, the question has many facets, and we can throw out a lot of ideas that could be helpful, not to the Peanut Gallery, but to the individual just starting out, with just a deer hunting background r maybe no background. Personal preference will always have a part to play but also taking into consideration the opinion of the old farts, like Fred, or ko ko. On second thought, ko ko flings pointed sticks so maybe Paul, then?

Just remember, someone could easily write a damned book on the subject so the least we can do is contribute a chapter.

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 11, 2018, 09:08 AM:
 
Sometimes..............Common Sense is a flower that doesn't grow in every garden.
Unless your goal is to become a big name player in the (crowded) big name coyote whacking field, how about a reality check ?
They're coyotes.
In a really good year, in a really good area, one might expect to average $50 a pelt. Other areas, other years, a bit less to a lot less.
For this we spend two or three grand for a scope that 'may' result in a couple of more coyotes a season than we would take with a basic no-frills 4 power????
They're just coyotes. Miss one & drive down the road and call in another one.
I do understand the quest for perfection........ but perfection is mostly in the mind, not in the equipment.
 
Posted by Eddie (Member # 4324) on March 11, 2018, 10:16 AM:
 
I don't agree about spending more money on a scope than you did your gun, never seen the sense of it.
Now before you guys get all upset let me say that I didn't grow up rich or have a lot of money when I was a kid. We had to use what we could get, so as I got older I didn't change. I did get a couple around $300 apiece for better glass because of my old eyes. I keep it simple 4x12 for deer and a 6x18 for my 22-250,4x12 on the 223 and the 22 hornet.
Let me say this, if I would have stayed single and not raised 4 kids and sent them to college. I could see myself like Fred with all kind of neat stuff. [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on March 11, 2018, 10:16 AM:
 
Kokos post pretty much sums it up for me really.
Mark

[ March 11, 2018, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]
 
Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on March 11, 2018, 10:25 AM:
 
Cost per coyote? I don't even want to think about that, kind of like fishing. I added up just the gas bill for my vehicle going to and from AZ the last two times this year. Those coyotes and one bobcat get real expensive.
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 11, 2018, 11:29 AM:
 
Iyeah right. And venison is really cheap.
 
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 11, 2018, 12:59 PM:
 
I’ve simplified my Scopes over the last few years for sure. Sold a Zeiss, and a Swarovski, because I bought a couple more rifles that needed scopes. Was able to buy 4 Leupold VX3’s to go along with the 2 I already had with the money from selling the Zeiss and Swarovski’s and have been very happy. They are not the best Scopes out there but definitely not the worst. They have been good and very reliable for me. Haven’t killed any less Coyotes with the cheaper Scopes either. Lol

Good Hunting Chad

[ March 11, 2018, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on March 11, 2018, 09:24 PM:
 
I consider myself a competent "practical" rifle shot, although with advancing age and the related shit that starts going south along with it, I might soon have to moderate that assessment.
I just don't shoot 500 yard coyotes, or 400 or 300, I don't much like to even consider a 200 yard coyote. I like to call my coyotes within practical shooting range, and that is under 100 yards, hopefully around 30-40 yards.
I like low magnification, 1.5X6, big heavy cross hairs, big FOV and clear optics. I have three such scopes on rifles, so no matter what I'm hunting, the same familiar image presents itself to my eye.
One of my hunting partners in Az, has a need for the big pricey optics, it's his business to kill coyotes, no matter the range. My coyote hunting business is strictly for pleasure, so I have absolutely no need for big, heavy, busy sight picture glass, but some guys do.
I recently looked thru a scope he mounted on a rifle and my eye was confused with stadia lines, horizontal, vertical, mil dots, range lines etc....way to much for me to digest.
I carry a short light weight rifle, a stool and a call on every stand, and always three extra rounds in my right front pocket for good luck, and that's it. No decoys, no bipods, no shooting sticks, no shotgun, nothing I don't need.
Ive hunted with one or two guys that had so much gawd damned shit to pack and carry, I swear it took them 8 or 10 minutes at the truck to get ready to head out, I absolutely hate that, three stops and they have wasted an extra stand that could have been made during the best part of the day....it's my major pet peeve.
The big glass is way cool, got to love the clarity and sharpness and other WOW factors, and evidently they are wildly successful in the market? I do have to admit, I can't wrap my mind around buying an add on piece of equipment that cost more than the real meat of the exercise which is the bullet delivery system?
 
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on March 12, 2018, 06:00 AM:
 
Amen Victor !
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 12, 2018, 07:24 AM:
 
Yeah, I feel the same way about homely women, just get the job done....

Marlene, a girlfriend, has a midnight blue Maserati; boy is that a complete waste of money! And, she has a skybox to watch the Cowboys, another complete waste of time and $. I'd rather sit in the nosebleed bleachers and enjoy the game; right?

I know another, Lorilea that has a really neat, classic Jaguar. I should tell her how stupid she looks driving that thing when she could get a new Prius for pennies on the dollar. Like Victor says; get something PRACTICAL! And, all those toys in the bedroom, who needs 'em? I wouldn't even know how to turn them on? I meant to ask her how her book is doing, but got distracted by those fake knockers! Unbelievable!

People lose sight of why they are there and what to do with what you got. Expensive gear, bells and whistles? Nope! Get down to basics, people!

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on March 12, 2018, 08:20 AM:
 
Do I sense a bit of sarcasm there Leonard? Maybe the word "practical" got lost in translation. I don't mean practical as in logical or necessities sense. Practical in my usage means only the ability to shoot from most any position, unaided, at short to moderate ranges, at a standing or moving animal.
I have no beef with technology in optics, and do not scoff at anyone who uses the big modern glass, it's cool stuff...I just don't use or need it in "my" type of hunting.
The title of the thread was " The scope you use for coyotes", not the scope you think everyone else should use for coyotes, was just commenting on what I like to use.
The guys shooting the long range coyotes would never get by on my low power, big reticle stuff, they want and need high end magnification, and the ability to twirl knobs, I get that. I don't need it for my style of hunting, but certainly appreciate its value and use for those who do want and need it.
 
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on March 12, 2018, 11:25 AM:
 
So I have a grand total of two days experience with this new "fire dot" reticle in the Leupold VX5 HD I put on my new AR15. Both days, busting jacks.

But, I'm a liking it! On 2x or 3x, with that center dot illuminated, it really does seem to help me get on a running jack faster. Just killed the shit out of the running bunnies with that rifle and scope the two days I've had it out.

It's not going to happen because I'm all out of play money but I think I'd like to have this same scope on my main squeeze .17P. It's actually just a tiny bit shorter length than my old Vxiii 4.5x14's, but about 3 oz. heavier. Just really like the field of view, the optics and surprisingly, that gimmicky fire dot is actually growing on me in a hurry. I think it's going to work real well on close in and fast moving coyote.

For how I'm using it, I'm digging this scope so far.

 -

About 600 rounds on it through the new machine gun in the last few weeks. We'll just have to see how it holds up and what I think in another couple years.

- DAA
 
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on March 12, 2018, 11:56 AM:
 
OMG! A machine gun!...with a silencer! Wait till I tell Feinstein about this shit!
Mark
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 12, 2018, 12:18 PM:
 
Victor, I'm not sure but I will look into it? Sarcasm is not allowed in this forum and you're right to call it to my attention if you think you detect it.

I want you to know that I agree with you in spirit. I like simple glass and one of my current daylight coyote rifles has a small Leupold 2.5X8 on it, with a simple duplex.

However, I do have a few of those big things, and I use them on coyotes, occasionally. But, as you say, when the distance increases and/or twilight becomes a problem, there is an application and a solution.

But, for popping song dogs in and around McNeal, (if I'm ever invited back), I have just the rig, and it has served me well for many years.

Good hunting. El Bee

PS I'm not kidding; if you see something, say something. We don't want no stinking sarcasm around these parts!
 
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on March 13, 2018, 04:39 AM:
 
Dave the FireDot is pretty handy, I have a VX6 1-6 with one and I can set it on 1x and use it like a red dot sight. They are daylight bright and really draw out the Bindon aiming concept that Trijicon pushes.

Last Saturday me and a buddy took our machine guns to shoot some steel. I thought about me not trusting Leupolds CDS dials so I started twisting it up and down. And then settled on the 400 yard mark and even though I hadn't shot this gun in almost 8 months, the first 3 shots wound up in a group just less than 3". No big feat but this was with the 1-6 scope and a pencil barreled chrome lined machine gun.

I've always sat on stand with my scope turned to about 4x and seldom have had to turn it up. I think most folks are over scoped. My cousin insists on a 6.5-20 Leupold scope on all of his guns even though I can see much earlier and much later with a lower powered scope at dawn and dusk.

As for reticle, I like a regular duplex but I'm finding a BDC type reticle pretty useful even on a low powered scope as long as it matches up with the load. I just ordered a Trijicon Accupower 1-4 with the BDC matched for 55 gr bullet at 3100 fps. Should fit my machine guns pretty well.
 
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on April 24, 2018, 05:03 PM:
 
Well, just to add a bit to this thread, I got me a little Swaro Z3. Low end Swaro, but I kinda like it. Just the right size for a calling rifle for me. 3x10x42..1" tube...wish it had a couple more powers, but I hardly ever use anything higher than 8 anyways.
Will mount it on a 700 22-250.
Mark
[IMG]  - 001 by Lonehowl, on Flickr[/IMG]

[ April 24, 2018, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 25, 2018, 02:26 PM:
 
That's why I prefer a 4.5X14, and usually, the only reason to crank it up is for load testing and occasional sighting in.

Otherwise, I'm ok with a battle sight setting, (military term) of 5X.

Good hunting. El Bee

I like Swaro but I think they are a bit pricy. The only one I own is the spotting scope, and it's an older model. I sure like their Kahles line, however.
 
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on April 25, 2018, 02:43 PM:
 
Pricey for sure ,this is the low end Z3, not to bad price wise. I got on with them as a dealer thru work so I got a little better deal than normal.
Mark
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 25, 2018, 02:57 PM:
 
I mentioned before, that I met an Austrian gentleman in a fishing camp down in Mexico. He was in a cabin right across from me so I would bump into him, coming in and out. One day, I asked him about Swarovski, a very Austrian brand, seems to me? He said he never heard of them? Must not be THAT big?

But, I have the eagle patch for my club jacket, just so people think I'm loaded.

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on April 26, 2018, 04:43 AM:
 
That looks like a right nice calling rifle scope.

- DAA
 
Posted by NVWalt (Member # 375) on April 28, 2018, 02:45 AM:
 
I must be the only cheap ass here. The most expensive scope I ever bought was that Leo rifleman thats on the 17 remmy. The others have just been cheap bushnells, tasco's etc. The only really bad one I have had was a BSA and it was bad. The others have held up for years and only died because I am a left footed clutz and the scopes just didn't survive being beat up. But then again I never have needed one of those high dollar units and could never bring my cheap ass mind to spend more on a scope than my cheap rifle. Hell I even use those cheap busnell airgun scopes on a couple of my TCs that I used during the hunter pistol days. I don't think I am the only one out there like me though. I could be wrong also..
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 28, 2018, 09:45 AM:
 
I don't know if you could call him a cheap ass, but Victor Carlson is known to mount stuff like Simmons Whitetail scopes on decent guns. He may sympathize with your attitude?

I have converted nonbelievers before, out in the field, while looking at some feature or some rack or something else. They never have too much to say, but you can see the wheels turning.

I had a good friend one time, and that's what it was, a discussion of whether there was a buck with a doe or two does. My son had one of my guns and he told my buddy, yeah, that's a nice buck but Dick scoffed at it, an excited kid, etc. So, he took a look through a scope that was at least twice as expensive as the one he had and was convinced on the spot.

A few days later, back home, this guy, (high school buddy) camped outside a Grant Boys store before they opened and bought a decent Leopold that was on sale, seems like it was a one of a kind shop model or something, but he was pleased as punch. This is the kind of guy that shows up for an out of state hunt with three different boxes of 7Mag. cartridges, all half full and not sighted in yet.

I also recall taking his rifle out of the stock out in the field, but damned if I can remember what the problem was, but he wasn't going to solve it by himself? He was actually more of a bird hunter when we were kids, and we joined the Army together on the buddy plan. A gentleman farmer, he was, out in Antelope Valley, and not really into guns, but he had a decent Model 700BDL.

A good deed, and yet he insisted on driving back ten miles through the woods, to camp, to get a scope cap for that cheap ass scope that he left sitting on a rock. Doesn't everybody sight in on opening day, that's half the fun. He'd be smiling, reading this.

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on April 28, 2018, 02:17 PM:
 
"Doesn't everybody sight in on opening day ....??"

You guys would be amazed at how many people are at the sporting goods counter at Wally World as the sun's coming up on opening day TO BUY THEIR DEER TAG !!!
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on May 02, 2018, 03:56 AM:
 
Mark, I can dig that little Swaro! Have a Kahles of almost the same specs and it's a dandy hunting scope...

Follow up to 2/16 post...Minox just returned with new illumination system. Back & forth to Germany, via TX...NO CHARGE. Will prolly mount it on the smoke pole & leave it be...
 
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on May 02, 2018, 08:49 AM:
 
Had an email regarding the price on these...I think MAP on those is like 729.00. These Z3's have I believe, Japanese glass in them, not German. Could be wrong but not 100%.
Mark
 
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on May 30, 2018, 06:30 PM:
 
An update. A couple months back I bought a Nightforce SHV 3-10 with the duplex reticle AKA "Forceplex" It was a "blem" and that knocked the price down to where I could justify trying it out. The box it came in was kinda tore up and that is the only blem I could see.

The turrets are capped on the SHV so that might take a few seconds to unscrew and dial versus the Leupold CDS turret was exposed. The CDS turret turned to easy for my liking and I had gotten into the habit of glancing at mine every so often to make sure it didn't get accidentally turned.

So far the NF has been leaps and bounds better than my 3.5-10 CDS Leupold when it comes to dialing. The NF actually changes the amount that its supposed to. And most importantly comes back to zero.

Like I said before, my CDS would work for awhile, but not consistently over the long haul and eventually it would have to go back the Beaverton.

So far I'm very impressed with the SHV. I'd buy another right now, if I could find another blem.

The scope is 5-6 ounces heavier, but with a suppressor screwed on, the heavier scope actually makes the rifle balance better.

Anyhow, so far I'm a happy camper.
 
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on May 31, 2018, 01:22 PM:
 
Awsome Lonny, they are good scopes fo sho'.
Mark
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 02, 2018, 10:04 AM:
 
Could I offer an opinion? It's my opinion that scope quality is about as important as caliber selection, which is, not very.

Yes, it's nice to be able to drop a hung up coyote way out yonder, but since most called coyotes are shot within 100 yards or so, just about any centerfire can do the deed. As illustrated by the popularity of the various 17 caliber chamberings.

So, do we need clarity, do we need brilliant light transmission? No. I think it's a lot more important hunting big game, especially western mule deer, that sort of thing.

But, in broad daylight, @100 yards, more or less, a plain vanilla Tasco will work just fine. Would you catch me dead with a plain vanilla Tasco type of glass? Not likely.

I guess it's mainly vanity that forces me to spend hundreds, if not thousands of dollars more than is needed? I have no excuse and plead guilty as charged. Stupid is another word that comes to mind.

Another thing! Nightforce is a scope I have never been interested in. Too big, too heavy, and way too expensive! I apologize to everybody that is proud of their Nightforce. It's just a personal thing, not like I called your wife homely.

Everybody has their preferences, true blondes, Maserati's, Beyonce? But, Nightforce is one scope that I feel is priced about twice what it's worth. Sorry.

Good hunting. El Bee

PS now, don't be upset, it's just an opinion and everybody has one. Sorry!
 
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on June 02, 2018, 11:15 AM:
 
In broad daylight @ 100 yards more or less with a plain vanilla Tasco mounted up top, a Mini-14 that shoots patterns rather than groups will kill a lot of coyotees, too.

[Big Grin]

(If you do your part)

[Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on June 02, 2018, 12:07 PM:
 
I'd rather have pretty glass and a homely wife....instead of other way around.

Not really.
Mark
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on June 04, 2018, 04:08 AM:
 
Leonard, whether it's a scope, or a wife, it's all about what's 'inside', that counts...

Simply put, the ability for a scope to adjust repeatably and hold a given zero, despite rough handling, means a shit ton more (to me) than how sweet the glass is.

What you pay (or don't pay) for in a scope is not only the view, it's the design & quality of the 'guts' that allow it actually be used, as intended. If I had a choice between a mechanically sound scope with OK glass, or a real looker that shifts zero if ya fart too close to it, gimme the first one!
Then, there are plenty of "cheap" scopes with OK glass that can't hold a zero, either. But, if ya find one that does, I'll agree that it'd be just fine to shoot coyotes with. Yeah, and ya can drive a Chevy VOLT to save fuel when hopping between stands, if ya want...

Course, shooters can have their cake, and eat it too! By spending more, you're buying...reliability. In that regard, Nightforce SHV line is about the best bang for your buck in a solid optic. Just my pennies, I don't even own one...cuz I like cake!

[ June 04, 2018, 04:09 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 04, 2018, 06:05 AM:
 
Fred, my point is that when you think about it, we do spend more than is needed on a scope for coyotes. Many of us appreciate fine optics, but honestly, it's just not needed for daylight stands, killing 100 yard coyotes. Yes, a "sound" scope is appreciated and probably at least 85% of what's offered is reasonably well made, mechanically, and what the bargain stuff lacks is superior glass. So, let's say a Weaver, or a Bushnell, entry level, is probably "good enough". Although it pains me to say that, since I generally subscribe to the belief; you get what you pay for, in diamonds, optics and especially, women. By the way, has anybody noticed that Stormy Daniels is a Two Bit Whore? She's just not attractive, not sexy and all she has going for her, if you like that stuff, is big tits and blonde. I don't think I'd bring her to a dog fight? Where was I?

Oh yeah. A cheap scope that holds zero isn't too much to ask for and will certainly kill a lot of coyotes. Just ask Victor. [Smile]

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on June 04, 2018, 08:19 AM:
 
Yeah, but it's 'what we do'. Hell, my latest bow is worth more than the truck I haul it around with.

As far as Ms. Daniels, she's getting on in years, losing her looks, losing her figure and the only thing she has left from a lifetime of hard living is a desperate cry for attention and help.
 
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on June 04, 2018, 09:05 AM:
 
Leonard, I always appreciate your opinion on these matters and in no way take any offense to a differing opinion. Lots of experience on this board and all-around good guys.

I totally understand the thought that piles of coyotes can be killed with a $200 scope and that would totally suffice for many people, myself included, in reality.

For good reason though, I had lost faith in the scope I was using to come back to zero when it was dialed.

The NF SHV that I bought isn't really that expensive or big and heavy. It was $675 shipped for the blem deal and about an inch shorter than the Leupold 3.5-10 it replaced. It is 5 ounces heavier though due to being a 30mm tube and built stouter internally.

Like I said wayback, for my scope needs, I'm not entering contests, killing coyotes for a living or jumping out of helicopters to kill bad guys. But dang, it isn't really asking too much to have a scope that returns to zero and moves the amount I want it to. Even if all I'm doing is shooting rocks across a canyon, the occasional coyote or ground squirrels at a distance that would make for some needed holdover.
 
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on June 04, 2018, 11:35 AM:
 
I guess I’ve just been damn lucky. I’ve been shooting my VX3 4.5x14-40 mm with the CDS turrets for along time now, like 7 years and it has been on my .22-250 Ackley nearly the entire time. I think I sighted it in 5 years ago and haven’t shot paper since. I use the knobs sometimes especially at 300-400 yard coyotes. And never have a problem dropping coyotes. One of these days I’ll have to check it on paper again to make sure. But the Coyotes keep dropping....
 
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on June 04, 2018, 12:29 PM:
 
But are you shooting pups with it? People want to know.
Mark
 
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on June 04, 2018, 01:04 PM:
 
I’ve been known to shoot a pup a time or two😉🤭
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 05, 2018, 05:58 AM:
 
I remember once. At night, walking out, suddenly something latched on to my boot. Kinda scared me. I'm shaking my leg and here I have a little pup coyote with a good bite right across the laces and he would not let go! Yeah, I stomped him. He had no more than a 4 inch tail, I'd guess size about like a 6 week old kitten, more or less. Never did figure that one out?

BIG MEANIE!

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on June 05, 2018, 06:35 AM:
 
Did the tail have the white tip for the extra points ?????
I've never figured that one out, either.
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 05, 2018, 01:14 PM:
 
At one time, like 40 years ago, a white tip was kinda rare except along the border. I don't know if they are suddenly more common, or people are noticing them more than they used to? But, they aren't ultra rare and they seem to pop up just about anywhere? That was Brent Rueb that wanted to award more points in the St Francis Hunt. He changed his mind under pressure.

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by Semp (Member # 3074) on June 07, 2018, 06:15 AM:
 
I mostly hunt woods with a shotgun. But when I use a rifle its a Colt M4 with a low end Vortex 2x7.
 




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