This is topic FoxPro CS-24 Review for Tim in forum Calls and Gear forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.


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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on January 26, 2012, 07:09 AM:
 
Tim,
Here's the review you wanted on the FoxPro CS-24, the best e-caller on the market in my opinion.

#1 E-caller
The best caller on the market in MY opinion is the FoxPro CS-24, customized to my specs. My specs simply include dual external power jacks. I had my caller made like this so I can run dual packs, and so I can quickly remove my battery and wires in the field. I use 14.8 Li-Ion battery packs with the CS-24. FoxPro made me some custom 90 degree fittings with heavy duty arctic wires so that they lay flatter to the TOA speaker cap. This caller is almost indestructible. I have some straps mounted around the caller for even quicker attachment to the cam lock buckles installed on my snowmachine.

The caller has plenty of volume and has been 100% reliable for me. It’s light, tough, and just works outstanding. As is, my CS-24 weighs right at 2 pounds 11 oz. It’s programmable and I have ton of JS, WT, Minaska, FoxPro and everything else on it. I would never own a non-programmable caller in this day and age, plain and simple. At -40, I like to simply push a single button and let my 15 minute custom sound sequences do the work for me. The remote screen can be very sluggish in the cold with the LCD screen. The buttons all work fine, but the LCD screen will lag drastically. The easy fix is to just put a foot warmer pack onto the remote.

These packs keep the screen going strong in the coldest weather and also keep my hands a bit warm too if I do decide to hold onto the thing. I also use a Boondocks Outdoors neoprene case for my TX500 remote, which keeps it quiet and insulated a bit. You need to be careful with the side buttons on the remote. It’s easy for me at times to accidentally smash a side button and have a sound start playing. The solution is to just make sure I’m not smashing the thing down on my jacket when I sit down. For night hunting, the remote is the absolute best. Nothing compares to it, or even close to it without modifications. I put small dots of JB Weld on my TX500 remote for easy finger location without having to look. I don’t do every button, but a pattern that allows me to feel things better.

With this caller, I can also run another external speaker and control a decoy if I choose. I don’t utilize those features, but they’re on it if needed. I many times carry a little MOJO Critter that I’ll stick in the snow or wedge onto the CS-24 speaker/bracket. For sound programming, three screws must be removed from the TOA rear cap. Then, just plug in the USB cord and it will show up on your computer as a removable storage device. Use FoxPro’s programming utility, or manually number the sounds.


Note: Wrap your TOA speaker bracket with some camo tape or some other type of thermal break if you’re hunting in the cold. That metal bracket sucks the heat right out of the hands. Plus, it keeps the caller quiet if a branch smacks that bracket.
 

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Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on January 26, 2012, 09:19 AM:
 
I thought the best e-caller were the old WT callers that Bill Martz threatened over the updates you made to them. BTW: where is that groucy old fart?

Edited in: Those fights are what got me interested in the site in the first place.

[ January 26, 2012, 09:19 AM: Message edited by: Aznative ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 26, 2012, 09:43 AM:
 
Thanks, tundra.

I agree, very satisfactory unit. I have had the Krakatoa CS24 since last year, and I really like it. I'm ahead of the curve with dual ports and battery packs, in fact, I have three, ready to go, but without silicone wire or 90˚ jacks. I run two sets of batteries at the same time. My machine has four screws holding the back on, for getting at the programing port.

Good hunting. LB

edit: Bill Martz still has an account on Huntmasters. He parachutes in every once in a while.

[ January 26, 2012, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on January 26, 2012, 10:02 AM:
 
That sounds like a great setup Leonard. Are you saying you have 3 power jacks on your Krakatoa? I usually run just one of the 14.8 volt Li-Ion battery packs and it runs almost all day(around 15-20 stands), 15 minute stands in temperatures averaging -20ºF at volume level 32. Have you ever drained down your batteries in a day? If so, how many packs was that?

[ January 26, 2012, 10:03 AM: Message edited by: TundraWookie ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 26, 2012, 10:21 AM:
 
Mine are mounted like saddlebags and I run both at the same time. I always have my Fluke with me, and if I detect a problem, I have the spare, ready to go. Recently, I had a single NiCad fail, affecting the whole pack....stuff like that.

I found a bag that seems perfect for the Krakatoa. It has four outside compartments, I have room for the smart charger and the volt meter and alkaline batteries for the remote, and the remote, etc, etc. It's black, but I can live without a camo bag, one of those things I fail to see the point in camouflage. Like, if I drop my $100 flashlight, I prefer that it not be so hard to find, but that's just me.

Good hunting. LB

edit: tundra, your extra speaker. Is it wireless?

[ January 26, 2012, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on January 26, 2012, 10:29 AM:
 
Leonard,
Are you asking about the extra TOA or SP55 I run? On both of those I have a female audio jack. I just keep the cord in my pocket and plug into the CS-24 and the extra speaker if needed. I can't keep a wire attached to the speaker itself, it will typically snap in the cold or get ripped off racing through the willows.
 

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Posted by ursus21 (Member # 3556) on January 26, 2012, 10:59 AM:
 
Before Tim shows up and dumbs everything down. Do either of you guys have some good close up photos of how you have those batteries attached/set up? I mean without all the camo wrap.

[ January 26, 2012, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: ursus21 ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 26, 2012, 11:40 AM:
 


You can see the pouches mounted to the bracket with tie raps and can hopefully make out the ports on both sides where the jacks plug in?

By the way, that is outdoor carpet scraps glued to the speaker with contact cement. This solves the tinny sound and makes it a little quieter, should I bump it against my stool or a rifle butt.

Good hunting. LB

[ January 26, 2012, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by ursus21 (Member # 3556) on January 26, 2012, 12:02 PM:
 
Thank you Leonard. That is interesting. Like the outdoor carpet idea as well. So is that your expensive flashlight laying there as well? I discovered while hunting bears in Canada that I don't like black colored flashlights. I dropped mine while getting out of the stand. Wouldn't have been a problem except there were several bears around the stand and when flashlight landed it went out. I ended up sprinting about a half mile back to the 4 wheeler in the pitch dark. Didn't find the flashlight until the next day, in the daylight. Friggen flashlights should have glow in the dark paint on them!
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 26, 2012, 12:44 PM:
 


This is what it looks like, in action. What looks like a sloppy glue job was added later, it's silicone smeared on with a finger to keep the strips of carpet from unraveling, and then lots of road dust that sticks to it, but in the field, it is functional. I'm happy with it.

Good hunting. LB

[ January 26, 2012, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Possumal (Member # 823) on January 26, 2012, 01:47 PM:
 
Leonard's plug ins are identical to the way my CS-24 is set up. I have ordered in 4 or 5 setups like that for guys. The CS-24B with the upgraded TX500 includes Foxbang, and several guys have wanted it in the 15W TOA which improves the sound considerably. Several fellows have reported using the spray on bedliner material to both protect the TOA and make it quieter while improving sound quality.

The plug in make it simple to unplug from the CS-24 and plug into the smart charger.

P.S. Leonard must be bursting those coyote's ear drums with the Krakatoa. I listened to one of those when I visited Foxpro last year, and it was seriously loud, with no distortion at all.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 26, 2012, 01:57 PM:
 
Good review Tundra.

I recently had the issue with the sluggish remote screen as well, except it was 0 and not -40. Ouch.
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on January 26, 2012, 02:14 PM:
 
Nice work with the carpet strips Leonard, I haven't seen that one before.

I'll get you some close up pictures of my batteries and plugs when I get back to the shop.

Leonard: What is that small strip attached to the handle bracket? Looks like a small piece of UHMW or something similar as a tilt up leg.

[ January 26, 2012, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: TundraWookie ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 26, 2012, 03:46 PM:
 
Yeah, that's what it's for. It's ¼X1" PVC pop riveted to the side of the metal handle, keeps the angle where I want it, if I put it on the ground. I also have that same ribbon you use, pull tape, or whatever you call it?

It's a damned good rig, I like it. My only bitch is with the TX500 remote, for reasons already mentioned. And, the foxbang works at least 50% of the time, but for $85 bucks, I don't want to sound picky.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on January 26, 2012, 04:20 PM:
 
Tundra...I have the same remote, but it does not look like yours????? Same buttons...different positions.

Leonard..check your email.

[ January 26, 2012, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: R.Shaw ]
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 26, 2012, 05:16 PM:
 
Geez LBeanhole, is that a Swarovski spotting scope? You must be rich and famous, at least richer and more famouser than me. Nice caller set up!
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on January 26, 2012, 05:31 PM:
 
R Shaw,
Did you get yours right when they came out? Mine had a different keypad originally, but sent me another one and I put it on. I really like this keypad configuration more than the older type.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 26, 2012, 05:40 PM:
 
Mail checked, replied.

Yes, that's my spotting scope. I'm almost like AR Shaw now, he won't use anything but Swarovoski glass. Say, do you like my solution for a wider stance, like Senator Larry Craig? I slip on those PVC tubing legs and boy does that make a heavy scope like this one a lot more stable.

I believe Al was the one that told me that the issue, in cold was traced to the pot on top that has some sort of lubricant that doesn't work too well, in the cold. I should have sent mine back.

Good hunting.....LB
 

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Posted by Possumal (Member # 823) on January 26, 2012, 06:09 PM:
 
Mike Dillon just made a post on PM and the Foxpro Forum concerning the scrolling knob on the TX500. Anyone who has a remote with that problem can send in their remote and Foxpro will replace it with the new type, free of charge.
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on January 26, 2012, 06:27 PM:
 
My Pot Top knob is devoid of grease and works at all temperatures I've used it in (90ºF to -45º).

Troy,
Here are some close ups of my battery setup.





I hope that helps. Easy to change out in the frigid cold and holds that pack on there, even taking a whipper at 45MPH down the trail. The speaker ended up hitting a flat rock and denting the thing. No other caller is going to take that kind of hit and keep going....except maybe Leonard's Krakatoa.

Note the deformation:

 

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Posted by ursus21 (Member # 3556) on January 26, 2012, 08:09 PM:
 
This has been a very cool and interesting thread so far. I just got my CS-24 back from Fox Pro today. I had it upgraded to a CS-24B. I can't wait to get out there and give it a whirl. Giving some serious thought to silencing the tin sound Leonard mentioned. That carpet idea of his is pretty good, as is the bed liner. I wonder if those stick on Simms Vibrations dampeners bowhunters use would do the trick?
 

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Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on January 26, 2012, 08:14 PM:
 
Troy, what is different about the "B" model other than Foxfade and Foxcast?
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on January 26, 2012, 08:15 PM:
 
Troy,
Those Simms dampeners would probably work. A simple few wraps of camo-form tape do wonders too. I haven't heard that ringing sound from the smaller 10W TOA speaker or 15W, just the big 30W model. Is that the one you have, the big boy?

I must have answered Tim's questions, because he seems to be quiet on this "special" post I made for him.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 26, 2012, 08:34 PM:
 
No. I have been getting all knowed up via email. Why he has not jumped in on the Board, I don't know?

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: It's no wonder people think I baby him. I don't. I just don't think he does anything worthy of banishment. Believe me, it takes A LOT to get yourself axed around here. Ask NASA, he has a version that some people over on the "professional forum believed without question....but you won't hear the real reason from me because I believe it is a private matter. Same thing, the professor. He might think he knows, but I don't have to share the actual reason and I don't. It's a kind of ethical thing, as far as I'm concerned. Nobody's business.

[ January 26, 2012, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on January 26, 2012, 08:37 PM:
 
Leonard,
Who is getting you all learned up via email? Not by Tim I hope? Who is going to jump in on this? Hopefully whoever it is has better questions than Tim's weak cries for help.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 26, 2012, 08:44 PM:
 
No, it's TA. Or somebody that has his password.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on January 26, 2012, 09:33 PM:
 
So Tim (TA) or somebody has hacked his email possibly and is emailing you to get you all "knowed up" on the e-callers?

Tim....Is it you!!!!! Or were you hacked???

So here I go out of my way to try and accomodate bucket head and he can't even ask his all important questions. Oh well, no loss.

On a side note. My new internal antenna MA-21 should be here soon. I'm real interested if it's just the cheap $8 RPSMA antenna or a new circuit mounted setup. Should be interesting to see how the remote range is.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 26, 2012, 09:45 PM:
 
I've got the older type remote with buttons in different places too, works fine for me though I did send it in to have the battery wires replaced and upgraded, wonder why no new remote?

Anyway I still like my neoprene cover on mine, it started life as a bears tooth shell carrier for a rifle stock but works much better on the cs24.

 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 26, 2012, 10:27 PM:
 

quote:

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Easy to change out in the frigid cold and holds that pack on there, even taking a whipper at 45MPH down the trail. The speaker ended up hitting a flat rock and denting the thing. No other caller is going to take that kind of hit and keep going....except maybe Leonard's Krakatoa.

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Why do you have to change batteries out in the field??? Don't they last all day????

As for the E-caller falling off the sled at 45 mph and no serious damage you got lucky..
I've had mine fall off the truck roof going 30-40 mph a hand full of times on a hard surface road and so has a few other owners. Yes they are tuff TOA speakers but if the back cap hits a hard suface consider it gone as it will shatter in the cold on either the WT or F-P as they are the same TOA.

In some other posts you claimed you hated the WT cause it had wires hanging out from the side, looks like your F-P has a few hanging out as well..
As for your electrical wires they are nothing more than what we call silicone electrical wires, nothing specal and can be purchased at a NAPA store...
As for the special wires they are not needed down here in the lower 48 as it don't get that cold. so if there is any issue with them in the cold it dose'nt pay for Bill to use them as you and the few others up there are less than 2% of sales, helps keep cost down..

I have some stuff going on and will get back to you in a day or two..
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 26, 2012, 10:29 PM:
 

quote:

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So here I go out of my way to try and accomodate bucket head and he can't even ask his all important questions. Oh well, no loss.

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Whats the rush?? You said it was'nt important to you to begin with....
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on January 26, 2012, 10:47 PM:
 
No rush, you were the one so antsy about me putting it here for you. So there it is. I can understand if you feel intimidated about asking questions about a better caller than your WT. You don't want to look bad in front of the boss man right?

Tim,
One day when you get a clue and hunt in cold weather hard you'll understand. Also Tim, I go on remote hunts where it's necessary to travel 80 to 100 miles to get a cabin. Things get pretty cold soaked in those temperatures, which I'm sure you know nothing about. I've killed the MA-21 batteries in a day Tim, so don't try to sing your praise to this choir. I know your WT runs for weeks on end with the same AAA battery as you spin circles holding it up in the air right? The wire sticking out of my caller will handle getting thrashed about. If it gets ripped hard, it will just unplug. The exposed antenna wire on the MA-21 was a joke, good thing they fixed it. Like I said, I have the internal on the way and should have a lowdown on range with it soon.
Thanks for the history on the wire Tim, I have around 300 feet of the stuff on spools in the garage, it's nothing fancy. Fancier than the MA-21 wires. Let me know how changing out those batteries in the pack on the MA-21 works out in the cold Tim.


Face it Tim, you honestly are a road hunter and never really "rough" it longer than probably 45 minutes. Then you run back to your warm truck and drive to the next stand.

No rush back though, you're adding nothing new to this topic.

[ January 26, 2012, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: TundraWookie ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 26, 2012, 10:55 PM:
 

quote:

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No rush, you were the one so antsy about me putting it here for you. So there it is. I can understand if you feel intimidated about asking questions about a better caller than your WT. You don't want to look bad in front of the boss man right?

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quote:

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One day when you get a clue and hunt in cold weather hard you'll understand. Also Tim, I go on remote hunts where it's necessary to travel 80 to 100 miles to get a cabin. Things get pretty cold soaked in those temperatures, which I'm sure you know nothing about. I've killed the MA-21 batteries in a day Tim, so don't try to sing your praise to this choir. I know your WT runs for weeks on end with the same AAA battery as you spin circles holding it up in the air right?

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quote:

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I've had mine fall off the truck roof going 30-40 mph a hand full of times on a hard surface road and so has a few other owners

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quote:

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The Boss man is me, I make my own decisions and follow no one, unlike a few of you.

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This might come as a surprise to you Tim, but your boss is an idiot!

As the other question someone asked about the difference between the CS-24 and the CS-24B. The B has Foxbang, Foxcast, and Foxfade. Plus they updated some with the transitor and receiver on my caller. I was messing with it last night and it works flawlessly.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 27, 2012, 07:55 AM:
 
Leonard its still manmade and is like you said made up of smaller strands of wire and yes they will break on the inside... I have certain tools for work that use this type of wire along with a few machines and the wire is also used in a Outers foul out gun cleaning system that I also happen to have.. Yes it does have a little more give compared to other types of wire used but like said it will also break in time..
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on January 27, 2012, 07:55 AM:
 
Troy,
Thanks for the information on the "B" model, I wasn't sure what the differences were. So I guess mine would be considered a "B" too since I sent it back in for those additions. I want the next feature to be called "FoxMagic". It will float the caller in place and go collect the animal for me after a hunt.

Tim,
The silicon wire will last longer than those WT antenna wires that you have if you actually rotate the thing up. It will also last longer than the MA-21 battery wires. I'm glad that I could help answer your questions, let me know anytime you need help.

[ January 27, 2012, 08:00 AM: Message edited by: TundraWookie ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 27, 2012, 09:38 AM:
 
My wife used to read the Board, just to find out what I was up to. She would shake her head and smile and wonder how grown men could get so excited over such trivial bullshit. I always told her that at least it keeps us out of Titty Bars, for the most part. We owe Tim a lot, for the entertainment value alone, not to mention the valuable info. Sometimes I think he knows exactly what he's doing, playing you guys like a fiddle. lo (really) l

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on January 27, 2012, 09:39 AM:
 
Leonard,
I was going to ask you if your Krakatoa is the newest model, or the earlier model that utilized the same circuit as the original CS-24? If yours is older, chances are it's the older circuit. The new model is a different beast with even more power. Thanks.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 27, 2012, 09:50 AM:
 
I don't know that? As I said, I have had it a year, so I would guess it could be the older, less powerful model? That's not real important, to me. It's plenty loud.

Good hunting. LB

Maybe I should ask for a refund?
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 27, 2012, 10:01 AM:
 

quote:

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The silicon wire will last longer than those WT antenna wires that you have if you actually rotate the thing up. It will also last longer than the MA-21 battery wires. I'm glad that I could help answer your questions, let me know anytime you need help.

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quote:

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, I go on remote hunts where it's necessary to travel 80 to 100 miles to get a cabin

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quote:

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You actually don't need a remote controlled caller Tim, considering it sits in your lap or on your head, correct?

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quote:

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Some people just tend to over think it...

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Tim definitely has under-thinking down to a science. In that regard he is an expert.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 27, 2012, 12:50 PM:
 
Ursus, did you really snitch on Timmy?
 

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Posted by trapper2 (Member # 3651) on January 27, 2012, 12:52 PM:
 
i forgot how much fun these threads can be between you two, keep it up.

i have the wt with the big speaker with the antenna on top that you have to raise up, i think this is the third one on mine, so even in warmer temps it can be a problem, granted i am hard on stuff and use it alot, i also have a cs-24 here and so far its worked great but there are afew things i would change about it, both work, but both have things i would change.
 

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Posted by ursus21 (Member # 3556) on January 27, 2012, 12:58 PM:
 
Leonard, if snitching means calling him out from behind his moniker, then I guess I did snitch. Don't really know how that gets defined as snitching though??? His beyond belief poor grammar gives him away every time. He couldn't leave easier sign to follow if he had six toes on one foot. Come to think of it, he might.
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on January 27, 2012, 01:10 PM:
 
trapper,
As soon as I get my internal antenna'd MA, I'll let you know what I find. It very well could be an $8 purchase like this and you can do away with that crummy external one. I really am curious what the range will do though.

http://www.antennafactor.com/resources/data-guides/ant-418-cw-rah.pdf

Troy,
Good job on calling out Timmy too. I don't think the guy ever denied being Tim, so chances are high that it was him. Then you have Tim on here saying that he hasn't been able to post on PM for over a year now. Whatever Tim says is right....right?
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 27, 2012, 01:11 PM:
 
LMAO!!!
 

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Posted by Patterson (Member # 3304) on January 27, 2012, 03:49 PM:
 
There goes 30 min of my life im never getting back....but like Trapper I like reading these threads.

I have had both the KA2030 as well as the older programable WT and now have the CS-24B. Yes I like the sounds on the WT better but as far as the caller go I have not noticed any difference in reaction from coyotes.

I really like that I can reprogram the CS24 and add as many sounds as I want. I originally got into the WT for the snow goose sounds as they are the best by far. But I also like to add my own coon and crow sounds. So the CS24 obviously wins that round.

I like the remote and seeing what i have and can play. I had the WT memorized so it didnt matter much. Thats a toss up.

Downfalls of the FP are some of the pieces are cheaper. I have had the battery pouch rip out the first week I had it. Think it was sewn poorly. Still using it though. The remote knob is faulty and the scroller doesnt work properly as it bounces thru the list. Will send it back in when im done using it after snow goose season. BUT with that said. FP's customer service has been much better to me that WT's ever was.

As far as the battery life. I used my FP in SK this last November snow goose hunting for 8 days. Using it for 3-4 hours in he morning and 3-4 hours in the evening non stop on 25-35 volume. Never once had it run out on me in a single day. Had one night I forgot to charge it and it ran out after a day and half of use. That is just with one pack of energizer AA's. Im plenty please with the battery life. Also carry a spare set of AA's.

Signed,
A WT user for 10 years or whatever its been....
 

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Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on January 27, 2012, 11:20 PM:
 
The more I read of TW's and TA's posts the more similar the two become.

Been a WT in my truck, fourwheeler, and snowmachine since we got them, believe it was 2004? May ahve been 03?

It gets beat up something terrible! It functions in extreme cold and thru the 100 plus heat.

Never ran out a charged 2030 or MA21 caller in a day of callin, never! I use the individual rechargeable batteries Energizer and Tenergy. When I do charge I use the mobile 4 battery 15 minute charger. I don't like battery packs, over time they seem to develope memory and do not last a whole day.

I've had an MA21 since they first came out, never broke an antenna wire or battery wire, it's been dropped numerous times, bounced off the road when left on top of the truck numerous times. hell I've had to go back in the dark hitting sounds on the remote to find the dam thing in the grass in the ditch, thought I lost it more than once. I don't mean just fall off and stop, were talkin 50 mph bouncin in the air down the road stuff. The SOB is tough, more than once I couldn't believe the thing would work after doing it. Yea Geordie LOL!!! Just wait til you get old! This MA is so reliable I don't carry extra batteries etc anymore, extra weight etc don't need them.

I think one aspect of this whole WT and FP thing that gets overlooked is WT's sell themselves, no add in every outdoor whatever you see, no TV show, imagine the difference in amount of money spent on advertising vs return. If you think back to when you saw the first screamin flashlight with recorded handcalls and then heard the older WT's with the real animal sounds you saw the difference right away. From recording quality, to volume, to ease of operation, to caller design, IMO, FP has not been revolutionary. In most aspects of what now are being deemed revolutionary WT owners have had for some time.

If you have the need to put your own sounds on a caller well then it's going to be a FP.

Personally with what I have from WT I don't need anymore. History from the old open MP3 WT's and the sounds being put on other callers led to the changing of the callers design. Why wouldn't you protect that. You had, and IMO have the only real quality animal sounds, if you want them you pay for them. I doubt that will ever change. Cal's coyote vocals have given FP users some quality sounds and other recordings on their list are improving but still it doesn't compare to a list from WT that's been around for how many years before there ever was a real animal recording on a FP soundlist.

If I had spent that amount of money and time to get all those sounds recorded etc I would be dammed if someone could buy one of my callers and transport the sounds to other callers without buying one of my callers to get them. I think one solution would be to sell a WT with no sounds on it and a design that allows the owner to download whatever from wherever.

I really don't know why I push WT's cause it would make my life easier if no one else around here had one.

I really don't care what you buy but I do consider Bill and Pat friends and they have both treated me with respect whenever I have had something wrong or needed something ASAP.

TW, I know you and Bill won't ever be friends but you doing an unbias summary on callers when WT is involved aint going to happen either. Are you camera shy? I don't recall ever seeing a pic of you without a facemask etc.

That's my two cents, TW and TA, back in the ring!
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 27, 2012, 11:43 PM:
 
Good honest post Randy and thanks for comeing out of the closet.

My MA-21 showed up today along with my new dog.. Life is good... Randy you where right about the MA-21 and I'll call you later...

All I can say so far is Bill really outdid himself on this one...

Its really cool to have a few guys go out and buy a few callers for a review, what saddens me though is they can't be honest about it so its useless.. Just think if Cleaver Gary and Wookie had a hard on for F-P they would be out of buisness.. LOL
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on January 28, 2012, 12:34 AM:
 
Good on you boys. Keep your WT's down there and I'll keep my CS-24's up here. I've run down fully charged battery packs in the MA-21, this I know for a fact. Like I said. I'm the one with multiple callers and will use what works best for me up here. It's the CS-24 every time. I give my WT's (plural) fair shakes and hunt with them. I don't care if the owner of WT and me don't get along. I care what works in the field for me and what is going to be reliable. That's good that you both seem to have good luck with your WT's. Lots of guys wish they could have a few (very few) WT sounds on a CS-24. Lots of them! That's coming from guys that own the WT callers. That right there speaks volumes about the caller to me. I have all the sounds from WT I could ever want.

Randy,
It be cold when I take my pictures, no need to show my mug. Do you really care what my face looks like?

Tim,
You never said how you legally hunt in MN with the snowmachines on your "night runs". Are you driving animals or what?

What happened to the bet too Tim? Did you finally decide that you were wrong? No worries.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 28, 2012, 04:12 AM:
 
How about them Giants.
 

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Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on January 28, 2012, 08:18 AM:
 
TW, I enjoy your posts and information you share but the personal conflict you have with WT jades your opinion, IMO. The pig pile effect on anything WT gets a a little old.

I would be the first to say the CS24 is the best thing I have seen from FP. I would say that because using the 2030 for years before it ever came out proved it to me and the two of them are very similar.

You want to program in your sounds it's the best deal out there, you want WT's sounds, the MA 21 is the best deal out there. This is what I see as the two major differences.

Let's just agree to disagree.

The plastic doesn't break, the wires don't snap, the batteries work fine, the remote works great. Would I change somethings sure but what caller wouldn't on whatever brand he has.

There doesn't have to be a wrong or a right everytime.

TA before you get all warm and fuzzy, remember who had to make a phone call when you were thinking of getting a WT.

49'r I would like to see them win but hard to bet against the Pats!
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 28, 2012, 08:55 AM:
 
Everybody in these discussions is biased. That's understandable. For the rest of us bystanders, we have to analyze everything and form an opinion based on what we feel is more important than other facts or? So, it does a service, regardless of the side of the fence you come down on. Kinda like these Republican debates....and how about those Giants?

Fred wrote yesterday that he is not into professional sports and occasionally looks at a game. I feel the same way and it has been that way for a long time. The owners play us for chumps. The players are greedy, they could care less about Pittsburg or Dallas or any team that the fans get so excited about. It's all bullshit. And, I am starting to feel the same way about college football and basketball. Reggie Bush, now there is an example. We are all chumps....and don't get me started on the Olympics. Or the Tour de France. <scream>

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 28, 2012, 09:02 AM:
 

quote:

---

You never said how you legally hunt in MN with the snowmachines on your "night runs". Are you driving animals or what?

What happened to the bet too Tim? Did you finally decide that you were wrong? No worries.

---

We don't hunt from snowmachines here we just use them for recreational driveing down in these parts. Sometimes its just a night run other times we take off for two days and cruse around the state.... Don't know if it matters but I had a Ski-doo...

I did'nt make or take any bets but you can still send the 500.00.. Better yet send the 500.00 to Leonard to cover my dues for the next year....
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 28, 2012, 09:37 AM:
 

quote:

---

TA before you get all warm and fuzzy, remember who had to make a phone call when you were thinking of getting a WT.

---

quote:

---

49'r I would like to see them win but hard to bet against the Pats!

---

No doubt Randy. My wife and I are just hoping for a good effort.
 

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Posted by Possumal (Member # 823) on January 28, 2012, 11:06 AM:
 
To all interested parties: I guess it would be easy to consider me biased against W.T. ecallers and their maker, the Unmentionable One. But it has nothing to do with my affiliation with Foxpro. It has everything to do with his highness putting the shaft to friends of mine, which was proven in court, as evidenced by judgments against him which are public record. I have already published those judgments long before becoming a member of the Foxpro Field Staff, and will leave it at that for right now.

As for Tundra Wookie's attitude towards W.T. and the Unmentionable One, mine would be much more critical than his if he singled me out on his website and made threats to me personally. I don't see anything about TW's review that isn't correct. I had one of the earlier W.T. models that you couldn't keep the antenna on even when carrying it in a protective pack. On top of that you had to remove tiny screws from the back of the ecaller, pancake the circuit board and delicate wires, just to change batteries. That didn't strike me as design that would come from a sound engineer, as he claimed to be.

Just for the record, my earlier comments about volume and clarity pertain to the new Krakatoa, which in my opinion, smoke the Mighty Atom by a large margin, both for volume and clarity.
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on January 28, 2012, 11:06 AM:
 
Randy,
That was a very well written post. I'll agree to disagree with you, except on just a few points. You may have not had wires break or plastic break or your antenna wire crack. I do not know how or what temperatures you hunt in. Before I made my post on the PM, I stated how I hunt and the temperatures I'll hunt in. -42ºF ambient temperature has been about my bottom cutoff lately. I have had plastic on the MA-21 break and antenna wires crack. It's an extreme temperature and is brutal on plastics (and me for that matter). I guess I could take my MA-21 out and hunt it hard at -42 for giggles, but I honestly don't want to ruin it, since it's a pain to send in for a repair. I can almost guarantee you that if it drops at -42 at waist level it's going to break. Not a major deal for the 99.9% of people who do not hunt in those temperatures, but for me a major issue.

I'll agree that the 2030MS and CS_24 of mine are very similar as far as speakers go. That's about all that's similar though. Everything else is different from remotes to antenna configuration. Most companies are using the TOA speakers now.

Tim,
You're hopeless man. Your jab at the Wounded Warrior hunt on another forum made me realize that you'll stoop to low levels I've never seen before. Simply pathetic, that's what you are.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 28, 2012, 11:38 AM:
 
Yeah I felt the same way about the 2 guys that put the hunt on.. The wounded warrior put his life on the line every day and deserved better and like I said it was a disappointment..... In the threads about the hunt I was'nt sure who we where honoring the wounded warrior or the guys doing the hunt...
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on January 28, 2012, 12:18 PM:
 
Give up Tim, all you had to do was say that you appreciate the warrior protecting our country and congratulate him on his hunt. I honestly don't know how you could show your mug at any campout or hunt in the future. I guess when you have zero shame, that's the way you're going to roll. I'm done associating with you and think others should do the same. You're a disgrace to the brotherhood of hunters and humanity.
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on January 28, 2012, 01:15 PM:
 
Ok, I'm going to lift my self imposed "banishment, could care less about the caller review, No disrespect intended. I agree Tundra, Tim crossed some major lines on this last one, and somehow still finds himself "unscathed" it's really amazing when you think about it.

(edit) It's obvious "Jerod" was being honered, not Reeves or Watson.

[ January 28, 2012, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on January 28, 2012, 01:24 PM:
 
I understand wanting to stay out of the general e-caller post Dave. I am in the same boat as you and a lot of others on Tim's self righteous ideology and the new level of low on the Wounded Warrior blow he took. The man knows no lower limits and can do no wrong in his own eyes.
He'll put some crazy spin on it to try and justify it rather than just saying he was wrong. Too lat at this point either way. The guy is a real shame.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 28, 2012, 01:41 PM:
 
Welcome back from your self imposed "banishment", Dave.

Your contributions will be treated fair and with respect. I think you probably knew that?

I seem to recall some pretty big time mouthing off from Dave Allen? It's forgotten.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 28, 2012, 01:57 PM:
 
There WAS the WWII vet that tiny disrespected while we were giving the man a little respect, now a wounded warrior....nice t-bag, real nice. t-bag can't stand it when someone ELSE receives credit for anything whether it be an old man making an incredible shot or Watson taking a wounded vet on a hunt or Tundrawookie stating why he likes FP better than tims caller or that he might have learned something from RR or Huber that he "didn't already know" narcissism at it's best.

Enough of that, Thanks for the honest reviews on both the FP and the WT, it seems there are different opinions but this stuff is what I like to see...HONEST opinions, not some web site testimonial from someone like tiny.

Randy, thanks for your review of the WT also, you said you have used WT callers for years, have you used a foxpro for any length of time? Not that it makes your experience with the WT any less relevant just wondering if you've been able to compare in your world.
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on January 28, 2012, 02:42 PM:
 
I did know that Leonard, what me with a big mouth ? surely you "jest"..

I just felt a comment was merited, thats all.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 28, 2012, 03:03 PM:
 
I'm sure some people wonder what TA is doing here? They probably think he deserves to get canned for the poor attitude and opinions, and apparently, that has happened some other places.

So, why not here? It's because he can express himself, as outrageous as he can be, at times. I allow him his opinions, just as everybody else is entitled to their opinion(s).

I don't think we should string the guy up because he disrespects a disabled Vet or a WWII Vet. It's unfortunate, for damned sure, but as long as he doesn't get on my case and piss me off, he is okay. Because, I really don't like to pull the trigger. Some may believe otherwise, but I think that I'm very consistent in that regard.

Now, specifically. I wasn't there, I don't know exactly what happened with the Wounded Warrior, but it is possible that Tim thought the focus was on the gentlemen hosting the event, rather than the Vet? Not possible? I don't know, but I do know that it is easy to jump on him, even if it is (occasionally) not justified. Can I point to a specific example? No, but he can't be 100% wrong 100% of the time? I think he is actually TRYING to play nice, at least lately. I want to give him credit for that.

That does not mean that I will baby him, or protect him from deserved attacks. I have done that before, like with Krusty, who has redeemed himself quite well, in my opinion. Who knows, maybe Tim will turn over a new leaf and wind up BFF with JD? Could happen. Remember "Home Alone".

I'm just as likely to get on his ass as anybody else. If he deserves it. Hey, he just got a dog! Ask him about it.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 28, 2012, 03:26 PM:
 

quote:

---

maybe Tim will turn over a new leaf and wind up BFF with JD?

---

We already are LB, haven't you noticed how civil we've been with each other lately, sheeesh you gotta try and keep up.

Alright, I'll bite........Tim you said you got a new dog and as a dog guy I will gladly pass by all this nonsense and hear about your new partner if your so inclined to share. A coyote dog? Bird dog?
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 28, 2012, 03:36 PM:
 

quote:

---

but it is possible that Tim thought the focus was on the gentlemen hosting the event, rather than the Vet?

---

quote:

---

If they are going to honor someone then honor them, Why do they always have to bring other people into the lime lite.. First there is a post on Randy W. and all his great accomplishments as a coyoter caller and guide.. They could of just said Randy W. well be guideing the hunt..

---

quote:

---

As far as the wounded warrior not a whole lot was said about him it was Randy this Randy that..
Maybe they could of mentioned some of the warrior hardships he had to go through and still going through and about his family..

---

quote:

---

We honor our Vets all the time here and don't run around takeing credit for anything we do for them and thats how it should be, leave everyone else out of the picture and honor the person that deserves it...

---

quote:

---

I WROTE THAT.
My attempt was merely to qualify Randy W. as something more than an internet asshat who shoots coyotes off the truck hood.
One more time. I was just lending credibility to the guide for the trip, nothing more. That is your ego driven perception, because that's what you'd expect if it were you.
Randy W. is the REAL DEAL, do you not agree?

---

quote:

---

IF you knew ANYTHNG about how WWP operates, you would KNOW that NOBODY knew who exactly the Wounded Warrior would be.
READ again, NOBODY KNEW WHO WOULD BE ARRIVING, just that it would be A Wounded Warrior and to prepare for a person with specific physical limitations.

---

quote:

---

WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU DO TO HELP OUT???

---

I did nothing for many reasons. One I new how it was going to turn out and the second is because of the owner of NPHA..
I've donated money to both his webb sites to help keep them going, Funny thing was all of a sudden he had money to buy high tech. hunting equipement or go on some hunts clear across the country just shortly after he made his fund raisers.. I don't trust him and never will...

I don't like or agree on how it was handled just my opinion so get over it..

[ January 28, 2012, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 28, 2012, 07:11 PM:
 


[ January 28, 2012, 07:12 PM: Message edited by: JD ]
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on January 28, 2012, 07:29 PM:
 
I don't know much about the Wounded Warrior hunt, other than I really like the idea of honoring one of our soldiers. I do know that if it's run again, I'd like to contribute something. Please let whoever put it together email me at snowcamoman@gmail.com and I'd be happy to help out in some shape or form. Thanks.

Edit: Bearhunter,
Sorry, I forgot to try and help you out with the sound question. If you like those two sounds playing together, you can have FoxPro put them together for you in a custom sound. You can play it out of the CS-24 main speaker then if you want. If you need to play out two speakers, they you'd just add the external to the CS-24 and play it as a stereo sound. I hope that helps and that I understood your questions correctly.

[ January 28, 2012, 07:32 PM: Message edited by: TundraWookie ]
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 28, 2012, 07:36 PM:
 
I just want to say thank you all for giving me something to occupy my down time. These threads are always entertaning.

Fred, we'll have to get together next time you're in, I tore the ligiments in my ankle last monday and am still down.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 29, 2012, 03:51 AM:
 
Well I just checked out the thread on the Wounded Warrior Weekend over on NPHA. I'm not sure if I missed something, but I thought it was tastefully done.

Did I miss something? Where was all this controversy?

Okay Tim, I can somewhat understand your point, in that Jered's wartime accomplishments were not at all mentioned, if we even know about them. Though, I think the point is, this was a thread intended to be about a HUNT for a wounded warrior, and was not intended to anything more. Like I said maybe I missed something.

God Bless Jered and all who served to protect our country.
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 29, 2012, 12:13 PM:
 
I totally agree 49
 

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Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on February 26, 2012, 11:41 AM:
 
I'm Bearhunters buddy he references with the WT.In fact I have 2 of them.I also have a foxpro(Firestorm only)and spend a lot of time 'downwind'listening to his Fury.IMO the coyote vocals are better on the WT.The remote better on the Foxpro.
As to Tim,I've 'followed' him for years on many sites.No doubt he can get old and insert his foot at times but hey,anyone that thinks he just hunts from his pickup and doesn't kill coyotes via calling is stupid.Anyone that thinks he can't shoot is really stupid.(check out his win at Varmint Hunter last year)
What brought me on here was a quote from Cdog to the effect of this is America and if what you do is legal,I don't give a shit.That goes for Tim in my book as well.I'm not aware of the Wounded Warrior thing but this is still America and if he did something wrong-well i served so that he or anyone can do anything legal they want.Glad to hear he's still welcome here regardless.
Flame me if you want,particularly since I'm a newbie here,but know i don't give a shit while doing it-and don't think i don't care about 'Wounded Warriors'.I started and still run this:
http://operationmuskie.com/index.html
Good hunting.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 26, 2012, 11:57 AM:
 
You sound like a patriot, and I agree with your thoughts concerning our problem child. Tim's a vet, you are a vet and I'm a vet, all allowed to say and do stupid things on occasion.

Damn! That's a hell of a fishing trip! I spent my early years in Minneesota and never caught a musky but knew of Lake of the Woods. Northern Pike are plenty fish on the end of a line, I can only imagine a Musky.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 26, 2012, 01:03 PM:
 
DiYi thanks for the kind words..

I've read about what you do for our Vets and you set a good example of what others should follow....

As for the Muskies we have a few lakes down here that are stocked with them but have never tried fishing for them..
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 26, 2012, 01:13 PM:
 
"She's a Redbone, one of my favorite breeds."
--------------------------------------------
No,No Elbee, Tim has a Weeny dog.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 26, 2012, 02:58 PM:
 
what does Tim's weenie have to do with anything; and how do you know? (where's my glasses?)

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on February 26, 2012, 03:06 PM:
 
Tim and Mr Martz knows that FoxPro is the king of the electronic callers on the market today. Mr Martz has been giving sounds to Flextone to try and gain some marketshare and keep his business going. WE shall see who is around in 10 years Foxpro and or WT.................

Funny how you can get 100 WT sounds on a flextone for 149.00 and if you buy sounds from Mr Martz they are 10.00 each min of 6 sounds. A great way to treat your high end customers.....

[ February 26, 2012, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: coyote whacker ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 26, 2012, 03:06 PM:
 
Rich is a PEEPER..
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 26, 2012, 03:35 PM:
 
Dang it Leonard, you nearly caused me to spit coffee all over my computer. LOL
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 26, 2012, 03:47 PM:
 
"You don't have to have a E-caller sitting out 50-100-200 yds from your stand to kill coyotes if you know how to read body language and work coyotes comeing in. Some people just tend to over think it"
------------------------------------------
That would be somewhat true if humans could actually see every coyote within hearing distance, and none of them were down-wind of the hunter. They made remote control callers for a reason. Choosing not to use every single trick you have in your bag of said tricks is going to cost you some coyotes. UNDER thinking is the problem sir.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 26, 2012, 04:09 PM:
 

quote:

---

WE shall see who is around in 10 years Foxpro and or WT.................

---

WT was here before F-P and I'm sure they will be around just as long if not longer.. Sooner or later the big E-call giant is going to take a fall (F-P).. You can only flood the market with so many calls and haveing to return them as soon as they get out the door has got to be draining there pockets as well...
As for the sounds I think Bill only sold a few to flextone, not sure on which sounds they are and don't care...
!0.00 a sound is a fair price, look at what Gerald or the others get for a cassette recording..
Dennis Kirk is selling his for 9.99 in one of my hunting catologs...
Most of the old F-P sounds are'nt that great so I can see why they give them away or sell them cheap...They don't have much time invested in them as well, thus the poor quality...

I see Minaska is back in the game with some new callers and upgrades and sounds.. There sales won't do any damage to WT's but its going to hurt the F-P market thats for sure....

Edit to add... I've only been to the F-P webb site a few times and just by looking around it looks like they are the ones soaking everyone for every dime they can get..
Can you honestly tell me a caller needs all that B.S. to kill coyotes or have a successfull hunt??????

[ February 26, 2012, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 26, 2012, 04:20 PM:
 
FoxPro will be around long after WT is dead. Yes, I saw Minaska's advertisement also. I am glad to see that the Borland brothers are still part of the business. They are good people, and now that Flambeau has pretty much taken them over, Minaska will be around for a longer time than WT also. Never underestimate FoxPro, those boys have money growing out of their ears. Just Call Steve Dillon and ask him if you don't believe me.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 26, 2012, 04:28 PM:
 

quote:

---

They made remote control callers for a reason. Choosing not to use every single trick you have in your bag of said tricks is going to cost you some coyotes. UNDER thinking is the problem sir.

---

quote:

---

and now that Flambeau has pretty much taken them over

---

To my understanding Flambeau is out of the picture and the callers are now back home in shop, the way it should be...
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 26, 2012, 04:57 PM:
 
I was reading on another site and there was some well knowns there that are adding a tweater speaker to the CS-24.. Dose'nt the CS-24 work with out haveing to modify it once you get one???
To me it sounds like the CS is haveing problems with the higher pitched sounds.

[ February 26, 2012, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 26, 2012, 05:05 PM:
 
What are you basing that on, Tim? Wishful thinking?

Good hunting. LB

edit: some people can't stand not tinkering with everything. That does not mean the CS24 won't reproduce high frequencies.

[ February 26, 2012, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 26, 2012, 05:10 PM:
 
LOL.. No Leonard I got this info from the horses mouth so to speak.. Cleaver Gary the E-call expert uses a tweater with his caller along with a few other guys..
 

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Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on February 26, 2012, 05:40 PM:
 
Tim not using the tweeter out of nessacity but to add a differnt sound to it all.

The CS 24 has zero problems I have used mine for 3 years with no problems. The extras are just that extras, take them or leave them, they offer them for those that want them, I can tell when calling in multiples Fox Bang has helped!!!!

A few sounds given out TIM???

Tell me which one isn;t a WT sound please?

http://www.wildlifecallers.com/catalog/product/gallery/id/355/image/591/

Mr Martz used to tell people he charged more for his sounds becuase of quaility, then stated his sounds where the best ever because they where run through the best caller ever, now you can use any of his sounds on a 124.00 caller LOL So figure out you buy the flextone caller your getting the unit and sounds for a cost of 1.24 each and he sells them to the high end clients for 10.00 each LOL Awsome marketing

FP offers many free sounds and the others are very high end and work extremely well, you haven't used them so hard to comment on their effectiveness isn't it? Many of these done with hgih end recording equipment by a FT ADC guy, many ADC personnel using FP CS-24's more today than WT for a fact, I know a few who have used both and now run a CS 24 with great results. They are calling after all the fur hunters call it good for the year and they work for them.

FP out of business before WT now that is plain laughable, FP runs a good company and offers units at all price ranges. There sounds cheaper and the FXP format sounds are of excellent quaility.

Tim a caller doesn't need to be right by you to be the most effective, in fact putting it out and away and using the terrain and wind you can place those coyotes in much better spots for you, in the end means you can call stands that otherwise using the call at your location or a mouth call wouldn't be as positive for you as a hunter.

[ February 26, 2012, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: coyote whacker ]
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on February 26, 2012, 06:37 PM:
 
Three guys I know in North Dakota called and killed over 400 coyotes this winter with Foxpros (CS 24s)and sounds that I recorded. If that's not a testimony to great sounds and a great product, I don't know what is. They broke 400 last week. That is an unreal accomplishment and congrats are in order.

[ February 26, 2012, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: 3 Toes ]
 

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Posted by Possumal (Member # 823) on February 26, 2012, 06:55 PM:
 
As usual, spooky old Tim has no clue about what he is talking about. Foxpro sells many more callers than any other manufacturer, and actually have very few returned for service. If you do have a problem, it is nice to rest assured you will be taken care of.
 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on February 26, 2012, 07:45 PM:
 
The CS24 is a damn good call.
kj
 

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Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on February 26, 2012, 08:23 PM:
 
You guys, stop arguing with Fonzy. Who really gives a shit what he thinks, if you can call it that.

There are 4 guys I can think of that I have hunted with (and I don't hunt with a lot of different people) since getting the CS-24, that used to use something else, but don't anymore.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 26, 2012, 08:29 PM:
 
"The remote just makes it that much easier to change sounds or operate the caller.. If a caller feels he needs to have the caller placed 50 yds out from him to call and kill coyotes then good for him. If it was hurting my stand by haveing it next to me I would set it out somewhere, but its not so I keep it close as thats what works for me and the way I work the coyotes."
-----------------------------
Oh my, the more words you speak, the dumber you get.
You have almost zero credibility Tim.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 26, 2012, 08:33 PM:
 
"Three guys I know in North Dakota called and killed over 400 coyotes this winter with Foxpros (CS 24s)and sounds that I recorded. If that's not a testimony to great sounds and a great product, I don't know what is. They broke 400 last week. That is an unreal accomplishment and congrats are in order."
-------------------------------
I would give one arm and half a leg for all of the sounds old 3 Toes has recorded.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 26, 2012, 08:42 PM:
 
Timmy boy thinks the CS24 is the caller that has tweeters built in to them. Here is a link to the caller which does have tweeters installed.
I hope the link works, but if not you can see the Prairie Blaster on Foxpro's main site.
http://www.gofoxpro.com/products/digital_calls/product_pb.php
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 26, 2012, 10:33 PM:
 

quote:

---

FP offers many free sounds and the others are very high end and work extremely well, you haven't used them so hard to comment on their effectiveness isn't it?

---

quote:

---

edit: some people can't stand not tinkering with everything. That does not mean the CS24 won't reproduce high frequencies.

---

quote:

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Mr Martz used to tell people he charged more for his sounds becuase of quaility, then stated his sounds where the best ever because they where run through the best caller ever, now you can use any of his sounds on a 124.00 caller LOL So figure out you buy the flextone caller your getting the unit and sounds for a cost of 1.24 each and he sells them to the high end clients for 10.00 each LOL Awsome marketing

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Tim a caller doesn't need to be right by you to be the most effective, in fact putting it out and away and using the terrain and wind you can place those coyotes in much better spots for you, in the end means you can call stands that otherwise using the call at your location or a mouth call wouldn't be as positive for you as a hunter.

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using the terrain and wind you can place those coyotes in much better spots for you,

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Foxpro sells many more callers than any other manufacturer

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and actually have very few returned for service

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There are 4 guys I can think of that I have hunted with (and I don't hunt with a lot of different people) since getting the CS-24, that used to use something else, but don't anymore.

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Oh my, the more words you speak, the dumber you get.
You have almost zero credibility Tim.

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Timmy boy thinks the CS24 is the caller that has tweeters built in to them.

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My words are pretty simple so you should be able to follow along.. " I SAID CLEVER GARY HAS A TWEETER TAPED TO THE TOP OF HIS CS-24 ALONG WITH A FEW OTHER FOLLOWERS.."

Leonard you better send another check or I'm quiting..

[ February 26, 2012, 10:35 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 26, 2012, 10:45 PM:
 
Shit, one new guy complimented you and now you think you're King Kong! Don't you proof read anything?

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 26, 2012, 10:51 PM:
 
No Leonard, I'll let Rich keep that title..

Last question; NO! You think it would matter or make a difference??? I don't...
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 26, 2012, 10:56 PM:
 
In the local News today I see that Mn. is going to try and pass a Bill to allow the hunting of coyotes from a plane or snowmobiles...

Also a new state record Eelpout was caught recently which weighed 19.5 pounds....
 

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Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on February 27, 2012, 03:55 AM:
 
Tim look at the master sound list from WT and the names of the sounds exact to the echo's from what I can see, also a few adds state 100 WT sounds.

Don't dance around it, we all know that Mr Martz sold the sounds to add volume sales. The thing is the WT crowd always used the fact that the sounds where only available for the high end call and kept it out of the hands of many, not the case anymore, now anyone can have the 100 WT sounds. Just buy an echo!

The days of so called stealing sounds are over, the highest majority could care less about WT sounds on there programable callers.
 

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Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on February 27, 2012, 06:34 AM:
 
found this on another site. seems to be a common complaint with WT'S ??
I have a WT KAS 2030MS wildlife caller for sale with 69 sounds on it. I just put a new antenna on it and the call is 100% functional. I drilled a new hole for the antenna so when the antenna is flipped up and down the wire isn't getting pinched like before
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 27, 2012, 09:42 AM:
 

quote:

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Don't dance around it, we all know that Mr Martz sold the sounds to add volume sales.

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The days of so called stealing sounds are over, the highest majority could care less about WT sounds on there programable callers.

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You are going to chalk up someone calling and killing over 400 coyotes to just high populations?

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FoxPro keeps improving their library by leaps and bounds and WT adds nothing.

The list of guys wanting to sell their new MA's to get into the CS-24 is overwhelming.

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WT has all the sounds you could possably need, whats to add....

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Only a fool limits himself.

[ February 28, 2012, 08:13 AM: Message edited by: TundraWookie ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 28, 2012, 12:08 PM:
 

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Tim are you saying the Indian reservation country and the areas around Pierre/MO river drainage don't have some high coyote densities????

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Only a fool limits himself.

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Only a fool thinks he has to have more than a hand full of sounds.
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on February 28, 2012, 12:25 PM:
 

quote:

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Only a fool thinks he has to have more than a hand full of sounds.

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And that's why the king of fools just traded his old WT in for a 120 sound WT.

[ February 28, 2012, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: TundraWookie ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 28, 2012, 12:54 PM:
 
Rich; Yes I call with the wind in my face or cross wind and sometimes down wind. Depends on what drainage I'm calling into and where the coyotes are and how the drainage lays out...
Most of the ranches I call have one or more big ridges running through them with a few deep drainages and many shallow ones. I travel the back side of the ridge as I move through the area and call into the drainage on my upwind side or cross wind and then on the way out I call the oppisite side of the ridge or move over to the next one if one is there..
Most of my coyotes don't go down wind till they are around 100-200 yds out, and alot of them just come straight in to the center of the sound cone..
Coyotes are like humans when it comes to moveing about, they also like to take the easey path and thats how I set up so that there are a few easey routes for them to funnel in on...
I set up on the high ground and call them in on the low ground...
The only time I get a coyote to come in from downwind or behind me is if I call that direction to start with.. I only do that on very windy days and when calling on some of the flat areas with a small knob for me to set up on or a drainage that I can funnel them up into.. They don't like the wind anymore than we do so I use a drainage or cut bank to my advantage and shoot them the second they appear...

When I call on agg. land its a whole different set of rules I go by. I set up close to the bedded coyotes and close to any cover like tree lines or the edge of CRP and so on.. I still try to call into the wind or cross wind if I have to..
If I'm calling along a tree line that goes to a slough or section of crp I set the caller out to my left or right depending on what side of the tree line I'm set up on and direction of wind.. Not all but most of the coyotes will come in along the tree line on the downwind side.
Sometimes I will set the caller along the tree line and set up out in a field and lay flat next to some corn stalks or grass patches..

When I call along a corn field or 1/4 section of CRP I will set up just on the edge of the cover or in just a little ways as long as I can see out into the open field.. The caller is placed out in the open field and forward of my position..
So you see I set up according to the areas I'm calling in and how the land lays out, there is a time and place when I need the caller out and away from me and then there are places I don't have to do that...

Night time calling at home I set up in the open fields or along fence or tree lines. The caller is at my side or is placed directly to my left or right about 20 ft. and faceing into the wind and towards any cover the coyote maybe in..
AT nite without lights I don't want to be to far from the caller as it will make it that much harder to see the coyote when it comes in..
With lights I may have the caller next to me or out just aways and forward of my position. The coyotes here seem to check up at the 100 yd. mark so I don't want the caller to far forward as that will put the coyote that much farther away from me..
I have a couple of places I want to set it up behind me about 100 yds but we don't have any snow at the moument to do that so I have to wait...
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 28, 2012, 01:05 PM:
 

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And that's why the king of fools just traded his old WT in for a 120 sound WT.

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There you go talking about something you know nothing about. (insert foot in mouth)

I still have my old WT 2030..
I traded in the 2030 MS I got from Kelly J. which did'nt have many of the sounds on it that I use for coyotes, his had mostly bird and cat sounds along with gray fox..
I traded for the MA-21 and I did'nt get it with 120 sounds.. Like I said don't need all of them...
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on February 28, 2012, 01:29 PM:
 
If you knew how to read you would see that I did not say which WT you traded in idiot.

I said:

quote:

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And that's why the king of fools just traded his old WT in for a 120 sound WT.

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I guess you only needed 114 sounds then. So you DID trade in an old WT and you ARE the king of FOOLS.

Stop trying to get the last word in, you'll never win! How are you liking those WT sounds on your Minaska? You never mention all of the WT sounds you have on that thing.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 28, 2012, 01:43 PM:
 
You said Old WT the one I traded was the newer of the two I had at the time. Idiot!!!

I don't have any WT sounds on the Minaska.. Why would I when I have two WT's to begin with...
Most of the sounds on the Minaska are minaska and Ed S., D.K. and B.A. with a few J.S. sounds...
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on February 28, 2012, 01:51 PM:
 
Old as in not NEW. See it how you want, you traded in an OLD WT for a NEW WT. IDIOT!

Somebody mentioned that a Tim had said his Minaska had a bunch of WT stuff on it at some campout down there in the states. It's alright if you want to put the sounds on a better e-caller, totally understandable.

[ February 28, 2012, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: TundraWookie ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 28, 2012, 02:04 PM:
 
Yeah the Minaska is a good caller, not as good as the WT's though but it has its place..
The nice thing about both brands I have is I did'nt have to send them to a chop shop to get them to work for me as they worked right out of the box..
The Minaska had to be sent back once for repair but I have never had to send the WT's back..
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on February 28, 2012, 02:09 PM:
 
My CS-24 has never been back for anything. WT's have been repaired by me when they failed.

You have to do this kind of goofy stuff to your WT's to make them work for you:



That does not look like a "right out of the box" WT to me now does it IDIOT? Just give up, you'll never win.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 28, 2012, 02:13 PM:
 
All I did was put a stand under them and a little paint other wise my callers are stock.. You changed or had someone else change the wireing, battery packs, heat packs, and who knows what else to get your F-P to work..

You do your worthless comparison tests but you compare stock callers to callers you have or had modified so they would work or work better than what you compared them to...
Not a very good comparison...

You take a F-P CS and 2030 into the field unchanged and they are both one of the same, just a TOA speaker. Only difference is the remote and neither one is any better than the other, just boils down to personnel preference..

[ February 28, 2012, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on February 28, 2012, 02:18 PM:
 
I didn't change anything on my FoxPro IDIOT, it came that way. (Insert foot deep down your throat now)

The CS-24 and WT's do not come with batteries anymore, you do realize that don't you IDIOT?
It's up to the customer to decide what to use to power their callers. I just choose to use the best batteries around, I can't help it you choose to use cheaper and inferior batteries.

FoxPro built my CS-24 for me exactly how I wanted it. It works perfectly "out of the box".

Keep flappin' the trap because you'll never win.
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on February 28, 2012, 03:57 PM:
 
My CS-24 is "stock" you clown. It comes from FoxPro's custom shop, as is. All I do is add batteries, the same thing you do or anybody does and I go hunt. If WT had a custom shop, I'd have them build something useful for me. Instead I have a plastic trash can that sits idle.

I have a 120 sound MA-21 with a new internal antenna so I'll give it a good test here soon. That antenna glued inside surely looks like a problem waiting to happen. The best modification for the MA-21 is to stick it inside a TOA speaker.

quote:

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You take a F-P CS and 2030 into the field unchanged and they are both one of the same, just a TOA speaker. Only difference is the remote and neither one is any better than the other, just boils down to personnel preference..

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With the FoxPro you can program it to do anything you want for sounds. I have long sound sequences with silence, ambience noises...etc made into them. Show me how to do that with the WT.

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Try one someday and you'll see for yourself.

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Take your sales pitch somewhere else. Like I said I don't need one of them...

[ February 28, 2012, 04:19 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on February 28, 2012, 04:32 PM:
 
You're a road hunter who knows nothing about tough hunting in real conditions. You walk 10 yards from your truck, plop down with the e-caller in lap or on the bucket and call for 20 minutes. Walk back to truck, warm up, drink a Dew and move on. I understand that you don't "rough" it and know that you don't put your equipment through any necessarily "tough" conditions. When you're ready to get more than 20 miles away from civilization, get yourself a caller that will handle it. Get a CS-24!!! IDIOT!! You'll never win.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 28, 2012, 09:10 PM:
 
I see you lost another potential buyer on P.M....
Like I said your sales pitches need work...

You can E-Mail if you need help with your MA-21...
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 28, 2012, 10:24 PM:
 
I'm sure Tim wouldn't want Bill to hear that stuff about loading his sounds on Tim's Minaska. Clever Gary was doing it for everybody at the campout.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 28, 2012, 10:28 PM:
 
Funny Leonard.. I'm not worried about it since I don't.. Ask yourself why would I want to when I have two WT callers... Do you have F-P sounds on your Minaska???
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on February 28, 2012, 10:57 PM:
 
T Idiot,
You couldn't help a person out of a box, let alone with a caller.

FP doesn't need any help selling callers as I'm sure you're well aware.

Interesting that guys are dumping MA-21 as fast as they seem to get them. A few going on ebay and classifieds on other forums. Several of the guys dumping them are wanting the CS-24 or Krakatoa. Can't say I blame them. I have them both (FP & WT) and know which is better, which the IDIOT doesn't and speaks of things he knows not.

Losers never win TA...and things that are different are not the same. Read and comprehend the above sentences and you'll be farther ahead.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 29, 2012, 12:28 AM:
 
Well I thought I would play along so I checked Yaa Hoo! And found 2 Ma callers for sale, one is sold.. They also had 5 F-P for sale, unsold..

I then went to Ebay since you suggested it and went through nine pages..
No WT callers for sale, not one! Hmmm
I did find 22 F-P up for sale though. Thats alot!!!
I then checked roughly 4 Pred. hunting related sites and found No WT's for sale and 6 F-P with two of them being the CS-24..

Edit to add. I just checked P.M.. Yep I can still log in over there..LOL
I checked 10 pages and came up with 2 MA's forsale and a shit load of F-P again with a few more CS-24's...
Anyway thats not very many and some pages dated back aways so they may have been sold already....

[ February 29, 2012, 12:45 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on February 29, 2012, 07:11 AM:
 
You haven't checked the right places Columbo, but good on you for the investigation.

You forget that there are probably 500 to 1000 times more FP's on the market than WT's, so obviously there will be more for sale. Notice that I said a "Few", not hundreds Mr. CSI.

How many CS-24's did ya find there Sherlock? Think about it.

You still forget that you have zero credibility because YOU have not hunted over the various callers, just your WT and Minaska. Oh, and I think some old Dennis Kirk thing you might have too. Listen to your peers and just accept the fact that the CS-24 is a great caller with a great sound library to choose from. You don't have to keep crying and playing Sherlock Holmes to prove the WT's are inferior. Just give up there dunce, you're still never going to win.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 29, 2012, 09:42 AM:
 
Tim, FYI, I donated my Minaska to charity. How come you allow people to call you an idiot? Do you do the same thing, over and over and expect different results?

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 29, 2012, 12:09 PM:
 
TundraWookie,

TUNDRAWOOKIE,TUNDRAWOOKIE. Hmmm, Rymes with TundraNukie, LOL

I took a gander of the NEW KrakaTOA over on Foxpro,s site. It looks exactly like yours. Those babies look like the cat,s meow. They even took the time to do a side by side comparison of the new KrakaTOA with a WT MA21. The results are interesting. Thank you for all of the testing, and the reporting of said tests, and all on your own dime. You sir are a Patriot.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 29, 2012, 12:17 PM:
 
Since Dan, (the man) has left the building, I guess it is up to me to point out that you misspelled Rhymes. Happens to the best of us, from time to time.

So, if I were to go to Foxpro's website, which I won't, they have a test performed by Tundra between the Foxpro and the WT?

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 29, 2012, 12:17 PM:
 

quote:

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Listen to your peers and just accept the fact that the CS-24 is a great caller with a great sound library to choose from. You don't have to keep crying and playing Sherlock Holmes to prove the WT's are inferior.

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If you ever drop the TX 500 remote on a hard surface and find it behaving weirdly or locking up completely - Or if you happen to hold down one of the buttons, like the SEQ button, and then push a few more buttons or twist the scroll knob, and the remote just quits working - where it becomes hopeless nonsense, nothing works, and won't even shut off without pulling the batteries - and when pulling the batteries and letting it go off then restarting still gives you a non-functioning pos in the middle of the hunt, here's a set of possible solutions.

First check that all the rubber buttons are working properly. You should feel a small click both when each of the buttons is pushed and again when it's released. It's not too hard to push the soft rubber button cover down under the plastic case and get a button stuck in the pushed position. If that's the case, the remote will quit working. You can work the rubber loose from the outside, or you may have to remove the screws, open the case, and readjust the rubber button cover until all the buttons are working properly.

Next, verify that the remote is on the same channel as the caller. Ooops. You don't know what channel you're using? The caller's channel is determined by the configuration of the dip switches inside the caller on the electronic board and the settings for each channel are listed in the manual. It would be very smart to know that channel and maybe write it on the caller or inside the remote battery cover in advance, before it goes haywire, especially if you don't carry the manual around with you. The remote's channel appears on the lower left of the lcd on the TX500 above the little "ch" label. If the two don't match, and they must match for the caller to work, one or the other will have to be changed. The remote's channel can be reconfigured in the TX500 menu options. Or, the caller's channel can be changed by altering the dip switches. As examples, my Fury is on Ch 13. The CS-24k is on Ch 6. The CS-24a is on Ch 15. Yours is probably different. I have the remote's marked, both the channel and the caller they control, inside the battery cover in permanent marker.

Finally, the last trick before throwing in the towel and sending it to service is to reconfigure the sound list on the remote. Attach the 1/8" cable between the caller and remote (the Fury will do it without the wire). Navigate the TX 500 menu to "TX500 config" and follow the instructions, or read the manual. Using the same procedure as you would when you load new sounds or change their order and reupload the list from the caller to the remote.

The combination of clearing any stuck buttons, channel synchronization, and sound list synchronization, will cure most problems short of a burnt circuit or broken wire

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How come you allow people to call you an idiot?

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Just words Leonard,but it also shows what kind of people represent F-P.. It don't bother me but it does bother others that read these posts....
Some said they would'nt buy WT's because of the way Bill talked to some people..
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 29, 2012, 01:47 PM:
 
"So, if I were to go to Foxpro's website, which I won't, they have a test performed by Tundra between the Foxpro and the WT?"
---------------------------------
I am thinking that Foxpro did the comparison tests. Here is the link. http://gofoxpro.com/products/digital_calls/krakatoa_comp.php
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on February 29, 2012, 02:04 PM:
 

quote:

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Just words Leonard,but it also shows what kind of people represent F-P.. It don't bother me but it does bother others that read these posts....

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Take Wookie for example he has all the WT sounds and most F-P sounds available and supposeitly the best E-caller out there today and he has'nt upped his kill numbers by very much if any..

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Tim what do you think Bill is doing by selling his sounds that you are using on your WT on a 149.00 Echo caller?

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If you state it is all about the sounds and how one uses them, then what does it matter how many people have the same sounds or same caller?

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Tim you can't say the FP would not have treated you the same as you have never used one or their sounds.

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Yep you got me there I've never used one.. I have listened to the sounds they do have though and gone through there list..
For some of the coyotes I call to it may take a large var. of sounds to get them to come in close enough for a shot, mostly coyote vocals..
You proably never called this way so you won't understand it but I'll go though it one more time..
With some conditioned coyotes a simple prey distress sound will not bring them in and coyote vocals will have to be used, from my exsperiance.. You have to work up in agression as you call with the WT vocals, too agressive and you could blow the whole deal, not agressive enough and they may just stand there and howl at you. So on a stand with one of these coyotes I may go through half of the coyote vocals I have or a little more to get the coyote pissed off enough to come in close enough so I can hopefully kill it. Each coyote is different some take a few vocals and some take alot with alot of patient to go with it.. My time and trips are limited so I go after whats there and I don't always get them all but I'm getting better at it...
So anyway F-P is missing some of the vocabulary that I need to be successfull, just abunch of different howls isnt going to cut it for me..

Maybe some day we can sit down and talk about it and perhaps you can walk away with a better understanding of how I do things to make them work..
I had help along the way from Scott and Randy and had to pick up the rest on my own so "THanks to both of them""...

Yes Bill has his sounds locked up to make money, do you exspect him to do it for free?????
His sounds are the same price as J.S sounds on cassette, give or take a dollar..

Dose'nt F-P also have a lock on there sounds as well???

I think in the future you will see a open system in the WT so a owner can add sounds and yet let WT protect what they have..The problem is to come up with a system that will work and will keep the WT sounds where they are suppose to stay and keep someone like Wookie from hacking the system is going to cost money and research..
You know Bill is'nt going to do it if its not bullet proof...
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 29, 2012, 11:01 PM:
 
Good post Rich and I "agree" with most of it..

The only thing I don't agree with is turning a coyote off to other coyotes howls even if a coyote has heard the same howl before.. Its just the same coyote to them that scared them off or shot at them, I know I can get by with the same howl but I throw them a curve ball by adding another howl of a different coyote or use it in a different sequence or a different sound along with it.. The main thing is just kill them the first time or don't give them a reason to fear the same sounds the next time you use them..
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on February 29, 2012, 11:53 PM:
 
But WT DID make a programmable caller back in the day. I have a bunch of them stacked up and use the open source sounds freely on my FoxPro. No encryption on those old things, just pop the Compact Flash or MMC card out and drop & drag to the FoxPro. No copyright laws broken since I own all the callers, sounds, and have not hacked software to get them. Of course there are only a handful that I use, but it's handy to have almost all of them if I want.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on March 01, 2012, 08:12 AM:
 
" The main thing is just kill them the first time or don't give them a reason to fear the same sounds the next time you use them"
--------------------------------------
Tim,
It is amazing to see how ignorant you actually are. I thought that everyone who has been around calling very long would know that there are many coyotes that detect the hunter that is making the screams, but the hunter never see's the coyote. Although men don't like to admit it, nobody but nobody kills every coyote that he calls. It is a widely known fact that every coyote out there recognizes the voice of those coyotes in that territory. It doesn't take a genius to realize that the sound of a stranger in their territory is only a stranger until such time as they investigate the sound of that stranger. It is only common sense to realize that using the same howls every time you go out, will soon be a danger signal to resident coyotes. Having known your lack of basic thought process after reading you posts for several years, I am not surprised to see you show your ignorance once again.
Happy hunting,
Rich
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 01, 2012, 11:54 AM:
 
Tim, I just saw this ad on PM and you came to mind instantly:



If I were to buy you a t-shirt, would you agree to wear it @ Mr. Coyote this year???
And to go along with, I could also make a custom baseball helmet styled Buckethead adaptor to link with any of your WTs?

C'mon, just think of that visual for a sec & tell me it wouldn't be the bomb-diggity???

lemme know!!!

That'd make for some good fun

[ March 01, 2012, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 01, 2012, 12:37 PM:
 
Fred, with all your money, couldn't you outfit the whole group of contestants? Free shipping for orders over $50. I used to think Dan, (the man) was loaded? Do you really have levels on every rifle? Wow!

Good hunting. LB

Just fukin' with ya, Fred. You are good people.
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 01, 2012, 12:58 PM:
 
Thanks Leonard (I know you love those smileys)

Tell ya what, if YOU can get to SD, I'll have a Major League Hoodie with your name embroidered on it waiting to keep you warm & cozy!!!

Heck, if anything, just hangin' out in Randy R's man cave would be worth the trip alone, I promise...
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 01, 2012, 01:43 PM:
 
The last time I went to South Dakota, the big jet tried to land twice, in extremely limited visibility, then turned around and flew back to Denver! Denver had some severe weather of it's own that day, tornados everywhere. After sleeping on the floor all night in A concourse, I got a ride on a little twelve seat prop but they still couldn't get me to Rapid City, had to land in Pierre instead. I swear, that airport is smaller than our local Upland airport, Cable Airport. Small and a lack of security was probably the reason why my ride tried to steal luggage. lol

You had to see the look on Scott's face when I told him that wasn't my suitcase he was carrying. He made excellent time from the parking lot to the terminal before somebody noticed their missing bags.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 01, 2012, 02:03 PM:
 
Fred just give the stuff to Kelly to wear, he earned it.. Besides is'nt Kelly the true inventer of the bucket-head E-call.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 01, 2012, 02:11 PM:
 

quote:

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I thought that everyone who has been around calling very long would know that there are many coyotes that detect the hunter that is making the screams, but the hunter never see's the coyote. Although men don't like to admit it, nobody but nobody kills every coyote that he calls

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Perhaps you don't see them all or kill most that do appear. Dose'nt mean its the same for me or others.. I actually do have a high percentage of called and killed coyotes, I can't help it since thats just the way it is.
I do miss out on some doubles or thriples at times, just get one of them but the ones that do get away I just come back for later.. I had a pretty good track record a few seasons ago...

On one of my trips a few seasons ago I called in and killed dam near every coyote that Roede helped me locate 3-4 days prior. Everynight when I returned to Pierre I would stop by at Roedes and show him my days take of coyotes and see if I matched his days take or passed it.. I always fell short a few coyotes but thought I did pretty good for a rec. caller.. LOL
Sometimes I wonder Rich if you are'nt one of those guys that over thinks calling coyotes and gives them way too much credit...

One thing I will agree with and thats there may be alot of coyotes that hear my calling and never come in. But on the bright side there are still alot of them that do come in.
I'd say in my case I may have alot of them that don't come in due to my calling at full volume and there is a terr. line holding them back.. But there is a bright side to this as well, just move farther down the road into another coyotes terr., problem solved..

[ March 01, 2012, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on March 01, 2012, 04:11 PM:
 
"Sometimes I wonder Rich if you are'nt one of those guys that over thinks calling coyotes and gives them way too much credit."
-----------------------------------
Yeh Right, Timmy. LOL You are absolutely clueless.Without Randy to hold your hand, you would be a complete Zero in South Dakota. And you see every coyote that comes in to your call? Another dimwit statement.

Elbee,
Do you have a Dimwit of the year award? We could all vote on who is most deserving of that award. Timmy would cherish it forever.
 

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Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on March 01, 2012, 04:21 PM:
 
Timmer. DiYi are heading to Mont. for a 3-4 day shoot-em-up in the a.m. any last minute tid-bits of wisdom you wanna throw at us??
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 01, 2012, 04:55 PM:
 
Dress warm!

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on March 01, 2012, 05:07 PM:
 
Tim you sound like a copy of Bill Martz LOl. All your territorial stuff and loud volume BS. All coyotes howl and bark at a certain volume they don't change volume with their sounds.

Sure there is a differance in tone and such but volume has nothing to do with it. Unless you know what age class of coyotes your dealing with and many, many times we don;t one is better off durring normal fur calling times to stick with higher pitched younger coyote vocals, no news there. Keep the deep stuff and agressive stuff for the times of the year it works best, that isn;'t durring normal fur calling times for the majority Tim.

Your zen like approach has little to do with it either. Tim I lived in SD for 18 years and have called coyotes in various areas and called them 12 months out of the year and know which counites your calling, the terrian and the numbers of coyotes in those areas. Your working cattle ranches for the most part, not sheep ranches and your working areas with above avg coyote numbers, because they are cattle ranches and not sheep ranches. Your hunting reservation as well that have zero predator control done on them, the main limiting control method has been mange for many years.

Far easier to work easy areas I get it Tim. Any smart caller would do the same. FP sounds have worked for me 12 months out of the year so I do take offence when you state it is the elabortate sounds of Mr Martz that is the "getter done" type sounds. Pure BS and will throw the BS flag all day long with you or Randy R on that topic. It is what the WT faithful want to hang their hat on.

Your calling in areas that get less pressure and calling at times of the year where the population is at it's highest points and calling areas where frankly many ranchers have less troubles with coyotes so they don't percive them as the threat that sheep ranches do, that is a fact. Coyotes kill sheep and calves without a doubt but the highest majority of cattlemen call durring spring calving once calving is done the phone stops ringing for the most part.

The ZEN sound idea of the WT is pure and simple BS passed on from one WT kool aide drinker to the next and some just happen to be the grand Kool Aide drinkers
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 01, 2012, 05:41 PM:
 
Dress warm and watch your muzzle.
 

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Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on March 01, 2012, 05:48 PM:
 
sposed to be in the 30's but ok.
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 01, 2012, 05:52 PM:
 
Sit, Spin and start shootin'

Forget about dressing warm. Most quick and light.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 01, 2012, 06:24 PM:
 
30˚ is shirtsleeve weather for a Minneesotan. But, not this one! I am NOT into cold weather, hate it!

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 01, 2012, 06:37 PM:
 

quote:

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All coyotes howl and bark at a certain volume they don't change volume with their sounds

---

quote:

---

Keep the deep stuff and agressive stuff for the times of the year it works best, that isn;'t durring normal fur calling times for the majority

---

quote:

---

Your calling in areas that get less pressure and calling at times of the year where the population is at it's highest points and calling areas where frankly many ranchers have less troubles with coyotes so they don't percive them as the threat that sheep ranches do, that is a fact.

---

How do you know? I don't always get out there when the population is at its peak. Most times I just get stuck with the left overs.
Yep the coyotes there are'nt much trouble at all. For the life of me I can't figure out why you guys still have jobs..
There was one ranch that lost 15-30 head of calves a few years back and this was one of the ranches that has limited hunting on it...
The other ranches that do see alot of coyote hunters don't have much if any problems, I must be doing a good job ..

quote:

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Your hunting reservation as well that have zero predator control done on them, the main limiting control method has been mange for many years.

---

quote:

---

Far easier to work easy areas I get it Tim.

---

quote:

---

30˚ is shirtsleeve weather for a Minneesotan. But, not this one! I am NOT into cold weather, hate it!

---

Most here don't like it either but we get used to it the ones that don't head down to AZ for the winter and gather around all the golf courses. ( Paul just hates that)LOL

This year though it has been the shitzz. Snow don't last more than a day or two or we get rain instead.. I can go out at night and call in 30-40 temps. vrs. 32 or colder...

Bear watch out for the gumbo when the sun peaks...

Oh and make sure you have clean shorts on incase your in a accident..

[ March 01, 2012, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on March 02, 2012, 03:48 AM:
 
Tim if you think your weekend trips out to central SD is an effective means of predator control then so be it
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 02, 2012, 03:58 AM:
 
I highly doubt it..
I usually try to get a full week in when I'm there, that way I can go back and get some of the coyotes I missed the first day.. Two weeks at a time would even be better..

I don't believe there is an effective way to control pred.'s. If there was most of the ADC guys would be out of a job...
You remove a pair that may not be causeing any damage and leaveing the door open for another pr. that will.. I understand though if a rancher see's a coyote he wants it gone...

[ March 02, 2012, 04:02 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 02, 2012, 08:03 AM:
 
So Mr. "All things Coyote", lets hear a typical stand for you with the WT sounds you use. Don't be shy, tell us by name what sounds you start off with and how you handle coyotes.

Leonard,
Can TA get the "Coyote Whisperer" award this year to go with that Major League shirt?
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on March 02, 2012, 09:03 AM:
 
"So Mr. "All things Coyote", lets hear a typical stand for you with the WT sounds you use. Don't be shy, tell us by name what sounds you start off with and how you handle coyotes."
-----------------------------------
OMG TUNDRA, you are gonna cause us to laugh ourselves to death.
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 02, 2012, 09:17 AM:
 
Rich,
If anybody actually read all the stuff that clown puts out his title should probably just be "Mr. All Things Everything". The guy knows no bounds, just ask him. From coyote whispering to heavy equipment operations he can do it all.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on March 02, 2012, 09:40 AM:
 
"If anybody actually read all the stuff that clown puts out his title should probably just be "Mr. All Things Everything". The guy knows no bounds, just ask him. From coyote whispering to heavy equipment operations he can do it all."
----------------------------------------
Well I hadn't thought about it before, but yes he actually is really "Knowed up" on everything. I am jealous now.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 02, 2012, 11:35 AM:
 

quote:

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So Mr. "All things Coyote", lets hear a typical stand for you with the WT sounds you use.

---

I believe you asked the same question a year or so ago. And I'm going to give you the same answer, " go figure it out yourself.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 02, 2012, 11:46 AM:
 

quote:

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The guy knows no bounds, just ask him. From coyote whispering to heavy equipment operations he can do it all."

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I don't live in some big city but a small town with the population of 500.. I worked on farms and ranches through highschool and been in the heavey construction trade since I got out of the service. Most of the big companies I worked for are non Union so you have to learn to fix your own equipement that you run, nice thing about that is the more you learn and know the bigger your Hourly wage is.. Maybe some day I'll show you my personnel trophy wall...
My writeing may not be the greastest but I don't really care and what stuff I do take a interest in like hunting, calling or guns I try to do the best I can and improve as much as I can to be better at it. Makes it that much more enjoyable for me.. I'm 52 yrs old and been to alot of places and learned to do alot of things. I really feel sorry for those guys working the 9-5 jobs, there home everynight and lead a boaring life...LOL

Edit for some spelling..

[ March 02, 2012, 06:03 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 02, 2012, 11:47 AM:
 
You're willing to tell every little detail of your coyote whispering theories and hallucinations, but the easy items you cannot deliver on. Ha ha ha ha ha..... You crack me up Mr. All Things Coyote Whisperer.....
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 02, 2012, 11:50 AM:
 
I'm a hands on fix it myself kinda guy too TA, go figure. I've been fortunate in life to be able to travel all over fishing and hunting. Now I'm living the dream here in Alaska and wouldn't trade it for the world. All that at the ripe old age of 34-ish. Maybe by the time I'm 52 I'll know everything in life like you.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on March 02, 2012, 11:58 AM:
 
52? Holy Crap! I have a daughter the same age. Dang know it all kids anyhoooo!
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 02, 2012, 12:07 PM:
 

quote:

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nice thing about that is the more you learn and know the bigger your Hourly wage is

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quote:

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what in hell is a throphy?

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I dunno. Possibly something you get for getting a bunch of thriples?
 

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Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on March 02, 2012, 03:10 PM:
 
Tim Good Predator control does exsist in many areas that run a GOOD program!!!! It isn't about total coyote killing, it is about killing those coyotes in historic areas that have caused troubles. Sheep ranchers get some great predator control, it is all about timing Tim and the time isn't for most Dec or January for sure!

Tim you remove pairs prior to lambing and it works as fill in takes longer. I have called,snared and trapped coyotes that for those sheep ranchers there losses where acceptable, it isn't all done with one tool durring "normal" coyote hide times.

When you think of a good run predator control program it isn't about the losses as some will happen no matter what due to budget and time constraints, but it is more about what you saved from being depredated on becuase of the efforts made at the proper times.

Tim take 2 weeks and cover what you can in those 2 weeks with just calling and at the times your keeping hides your doing little to stop depredation. Cattlemen it does start earlier but your breaking down concintrations around the early calvers and then putting out fires as they arrise, but with cattle it is a much shorter window of concern "normally" than it is with sheep producers who has to worry from lambs hitting the ground until lamb those lambs are sold at the sale barns.

Tim the overall numbers of reservation guys that pay to have flying done is minimal and I know the guy doing most of the flying on the reservation and he is a good one for sure!!!! he can pile up the coyotes and also does some contract work for the state in eastern SD. I believe your talking areas south and west of Eagle Butte correct?

Tim the jury still out on the louder the closer they think it is. They hear coyotes and communicate ALL the time they can pin point sounds very well, and so your louder sounds closer but what happens when they perceive it being closer and it isn't? They use their eyes and ears to do they not? You talk about a territorial boundry so how do you get them to cross that solid line by upping the sound, if in fact they hit that boundry and see nothing and your still a 1/2 mile or more away?

Does volume help at times? Sure it does but the old Bill Martz "theory" that the mighty MO caller incorperates some magic has never really been proven in the field. I have had coyotes at the proper time they are defending a boundry not want to cross it, so the option is to move closer and having ear shattering volume really played no part what so ever in that circumstance. Also what happens if that is a pair of 2 year olds and are more submissive, does the volume change their make up?

Alot has to do with the age class, coyote densities and time of year "YOU" are calling them. Not because your using the super dupper Bill Martz machine or sounds. I have proven that out to be pure bunk, aka "pyscho babble".

Even a calling dog at times is too much for that particular groupof coyotes, let alone some caller machine turning them into raging lunatics

Durring the right times of the year that is done far more easy than "some" are willing to admitt and stick with the "zen" montra to show their knowledge and such

It is like Ogorman advertising his trapping lures to have added enragers and demand a territoral response

What fur trapper trapping at a time of year with 50-60% of the coyote population young of the year coyotes would want to use such a lure???

COUNTER PRODUCTIVE!!!!!!!
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 02, 2012, 05:41 PM:
 

quote:

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Fred just give the stuff to Kelly to wear, he earned it.. Besides is'nt Kelly the true inventer of the bucket-head E-call

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Tim, I gave KJ his shirt last year!!!

 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 02, 2012, 05:51 PM:
 
That photo he is holding looks A LOT like Tim Anderson?

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 02, 2012, 06:01 PM:
 

quote:

---

Does volume help at times? Sure it does but the old Bill Martz "theory" that the mighty MO caller incorperates some magic has never really been proven in the field. I have had coyotes at the proper time they are defending a boundry not want to cross it, so the option is to move closer and having ear shattering volume really played no part what so ever in that circumstance. Also what happens if that is a pair of 2 year olds and are more submissive, does the volume change their make up?

---

When calling in the Dakotas my caller is set on full volume most stands and have coyotes come right in to the caller. The loud volume dose'nt seem to hurt my stands from what I can see and the coyotes just keep comeing in. I have a few on vid. with the caller blasting away and they just kept comeing so in a nutshell loud volume can't hurt...
Even some the of the younger coyotes that are less agressive will still show up with the caller on full volume, you just have to tone down the sound you are going to use. ( Example mouse over cotton-tail, cotton-tail over baby jack, baby jack over adult jack and so on...)) (same with coyote vocals. young coyote howls over adult female or male howls, female howls over adult male howls. ect.) Work up in aggression rather than just going to an adult challenge howl....ect. ect.
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 02, 2012, 06:28 PM:
 
anyone see the newest Dos Equis banner ad???


 

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Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on March 02, 2012, 07:46 PM:
 
Tim NO offense really I mean that, no BS but your last post made zero sense in relation to the point you made earlier that the WT and it's magical "ZEN" sounds create and demand a response.

Like Bill M telling me via a phone call that he and his sound box and sounds could actually run coyotes out of a territory

Man I had a big laugh on that one. I even went so far to make a wager for him to come out and run coyotes off of my sheep kills, it sure would save the state tons of money, no need to kill them just chase them out of a denning area afraid of there lives and leave an easy food source because of his expertise, caller and "zen" sounds

Sadly he never took my bet. I was hoping he would show up and we could meet some ranchers and tell them No problems we are going to scare them coyotes right off your sheep
 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on March 02, 2012, 08:14 PM:
 
CW - what effect would Wolf howls have on a pair working sheep?

Would it be a deterant, or is the lure of the lambs too strong?
kj
 

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Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on March 02, 2012, 08:30 PM:
 
wolf howls would have zero effect on a coyote pair working on sheep. Your not going to run them off a food source. They have been hammered and hurrased shot at, gunned from above and the killing will continue on, the home place can and will change, even the timing of the kills but your not going to run them off a food source.

Kill them and you slow down recruitment to a degree, depends on how many pairs are backed up behind them. Kill coyotes within a few miles when locked on a den and you can make head way for sure.

Historically coyote pairs will pick and choose denning locations that offer cover, water and a close by relevant food source and in sheep country that means lambs.

I have killed family group and pups annually on the same places year after year in an area less than 1/4 mile of each other. New coyotes moving up the habitat chain annually.

Liken it to deer or antelope on a easy food source in the winter, haze them all you want they will find a way to come back and feed.

[ March 02, 2012, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: coyote whacker ]
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 02, 2012, 08:56 PM:
 
Ok; For the most part, I try to stay out of these petty, no win squabbles, but at this point I have to ask:
Tim, if the coyotes come right up to your caller (that you place next to you) why carry a wiz-bang rifle & take shots at 300 / 400 plus yards?? The walk out & back to retrieve cuts into a huge amount of hunting time.
Why not just carry a shottie and ground sluice the coyotes at 30 / 40 yards??
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 02, 2012, 10:25 PM:
 
And while you're answering everything else Mr. All Things Everything, what kind of waders do you recommend? I want some really good one's because the level of dung in here keeps gettin' deeper. Keep up the good work pro.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 02, 2012, 10:32 PM:
 

quote:

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Like Bill M telling me via a phone call that he and his sound box and sounds could actually run coyotes out of a territory

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quote:

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Ok; For the most part, I try to stay out of these petty, no win squabbles, but at this point I have to ask:
Tim, if the coyotes come right up to your caller (that you place next to you) why carry a wiz-bang rifle & take shots at 300 / 400 plus yards?? The walk out & back to retrieve cuts into a huge amount of hunting time.
Why not just carry a shottie and ground sluice the coyotes at 30 / 40 yards??

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Koko; I don't like to let them get in that close so I shoot them early... Too many things can happen when they are in close when I'm calling alone. I've had them run right past me on a few stands though and then circle to my downwind side about 50 yds or so and then I would take them, it don't happen very often though..( maybe once a year or more)
There is also no garrentee the coyotes are always going to come in close enough for the shotgun, I'm not that good. And I don't like to carry two guns.. Learn to shoot the rifle and go hunting...

Most of my stands I can just drive down to the dead coyote with my truck or ATV, some I do have to walk to and drag back out which is just part of the deal but I don't worry about looseing a few minutes here or there as I'm not doing a contest...

IMO shotties should be used for bird hunting or deer hunting when slugs are required.. Shooting coyotes or other fur bearers just don't sit well with me so I don't use them anymore than I have to.. Our nite law requires them though when useing a light so I have no choice other than wait for snow cover and full moon and then use the rifle...

Wookie; The neopreme waiders are pretty good but in your case they won't do you much good since your way over your head in it...

[ March 02, 2012, 10:50 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on March 02, 2012, 11:20 PM:
 

quote:

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The western coyotes seem to be more agressive than some of the coyotes in other parts of the country and are more willing to stick around and fight it out for what food they can get, they are also more territorial compared to other areas and some also willing to come in and defend there young or just another young coyote or maybe join in and kick it ass or any other reasons you could come up with...

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Really? Please expound on your knowledge of western coyotes since I don't see this type of behavior, I have to wonder what I'm missing.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 02, 2012, 11:36 PM:
 
You see Jim you just proved my point, coyotes don't behave the same in different areas of the country.. They do have alot of simularities as far as being a coyote...

Another example: Do a majority of your AZ coyotes respond to a pup in distress. I'm sure you will say yes... Here at home most will not, either they lay tite in there beds or run in the other direction..
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 03, 2012, 12:06 AM:
 
Mr. All Things Anything Anytime it appears as though it's you who is having to defend every single one of your delusional theories here, not me. Keep up the good work Ace, the entertainment and humor is great!
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 03, 2012, 01:58 AM:
 
My shottie doesn't sit well with you? NOW you tell me! Where were you when I was wasting $3 a pop patterning the beast?

Okay, okay. 835 Mossberg for sale with kool sight and even cooler choke tube. Reply via PM feature, please. If you have it activated?

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on March 03, 2012, 07:28 AM:
 
Tim your not moving coyotes out of an area for any "real" length of time. I think your confusing what a coyote naturally does at times of the year with when you happen to be out calling them and adding human pressure.
In more urban areas it stands to reason you could pressure a coyote and they could move for a short period and have to move further due to less ideal area, but it isn't because of the caller or sounds it is the human pressure, and good coyote habitat will always have coyotes in it. It has nothing to do with the "magic" of sounds as coyotes communicate with each other all the time, agressive coyotes will be agreesive coyotes and Non agressive coyotes will be such. Both can and will kill sheep, the best areas will generally have the more agressive coyotes for obvious reasons in a stbale coyote population. Sorry Mr Martz.

Tim try your pup in distress in May,June and July an see if your response changes, let me know.

Agression has alot to do with coyote densities and prey base and age class agree 100% what it doesn't have to do with is what caller your using or sound that is a fact. Your volume or sound choice isn't going to change their nature Tim, you have to offer them something that will want them to expound on.That will change with the coyotes being called and reasons why the gruff old coyote vocals better left alone for the fur periods of calling. So there is no magic in the "black box" or Mr Black boxes sounds

The old gruff sounds sure won't make them come in but they will just shut up and be quite, yet still make there living in the same areas, just will do so in the shadows so to speak.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 03, 2012, 09:05 AM:
 
El Bee;
I feel really bad about the shame & disgrace that you have to live with by owning a shottie gun. I want to help. I, myself, having no shame & having disgraced myself numerous times already, have no problem with shotties, Mini-14s and 30-30s.
Therefore, bring the source of your pain over to my house along with the case & ammo and I'll give you a hundred bucks for it & grill us up some burgers for lunch, to boot.
Remember, I'm here to help.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 03, 2012, 09:19 AM:
 
Tim.....Tim...........Tim;
What ARE we going to do with you???
About the coolest thing a person can do when calling is to see a tiny speck waaaaaay out there grow into a coyote coming in like it's on a string, right to you.
The ONLY thing that can be any cooler is if the coyote comes right up to the caller and stands up on it's hind legs trying to get to the rabbit. The expressions that a coyote can make are worth more than the fur check.
And when you stroll over to pick him up and the shot cup is laying right next to him, you know that you didn't just fool him.......you REALLY fooled him.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 03, 2012, 10:56 AM:
 

quote:

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My shottie doesn't sit well with you? NOW you tell me! Where were you when I was wasting $3 a pop patterning the beast?

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You can keep your shotty Leonard, just don't exspect me to use it...
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 03, 2012, 11:18 AM:
 
I can't place my shottie in the same catagory as a Mini 14. I understand the mistake of buying one, in the first place, but not offering it for sale, after seeing what it can do is, a puzzlement?

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 03, 2012, 11:53 AM:
 

quote:

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Tim try your pup in distress in May,June and July an see if your response changes, let me know.

---

I've been there already and even went so far as useing other pup distress sounds made by others and also with a hand calls.. Same results...
I do have one sound that works better here than pup distress but its not fool proof and is only good for a few coyotes...
My latest adventure was last summer, I had gone out and located a den with a handfull of pups and two adults.. I PM a member here to let him know what I was up to and we decussed a few strategys and then I waited for the perfect day with the right wind conditions and then moved into the den area setting up on a small hill and looking done in the area of the den... There was a small hill in front of me and the den hole was on the other side so I could not see the pups... I started off with just some mouse squeaks at low to med. volume and useing them spareingly, (called very little)... As time went by I then switched to a little birdie distress and then onto a few other sounds.. I was on stand roughly a hour and nothing showed so then I went to a non-threatening coyote howl and at this time the pups lit up and started howling from behind the small hill and never showing themselves, and shortly Mom and Pop started in howling and barking from 300 yds away from some thick plum brush and to the right of the den still up wind of my position..
I tried some other coyote vocals and still could'nt get the adults to come out and show themselves so then I went to pup in distress and still nothing.. I just sat there after that for 15-30 minutes and still nothing so I then gave a lone howl and the only coyotes to respond to this was the adults and they were moveing farther away from my location to the N-E and getting deeper into the thick stuff...
I packed up and then made the mile walk back to the truck and called it a day... I've had other den areas I have called around at different times of the year and this one was the closest I have ever set up on and had the best results as far as getting them to howl dureing the day... The other dens I called around they never said a peep...
Maybe I should of had a decoy dog along..LOL
I gave this den area some time to rest then came back in from a different direction and went through the whole process of calling them, I got a vocal response from the adults that were over 500 yds. from the den and nothing from the pups.. Turned into another dry stand...
Came back to the same area in late Oct. and tried calling them again and nothing this time...
We finally got a little snow so I went back to the den area looking for tracks and trails so I could set a few traps, there was'nt a track to be found but I set a few traps anyway and never did see any tracks dureing my trap checks...
I came back one night to see if I could get them to answer my locate howls. Nothing around the den area but I did find them, and they were located roughly 3-4 miles down the drainage from the den area. The adults and a single pup are still in this area and its been roughly 7 month's and the remaining pups are up on the high ground to the south and west of the den area about 3 miles away.... I was told by the member here that when I tried to call them the results wouldbe one of two things, they would come in to the caller or they would play chicken shit and move away.. Well thats what I got here just abunch of chickens...LOL
I have called in some females early in the spring just before they dropped there pups and had to use a series of prey distress along with coyote vocals and then back to prey distress sounds.. It took them a long time before they would decide to committ but once they made up there mind they came pretty fast.. I have a few on vid. or just pic.s from the camera as they came in.... Only reason I called these in at that time of year as I was doing a little research to find out how many pups my coyotes have..
I've done some calling in S.D around july and August and found most of the coyotes still come into the call with just basic sounds....
Two different areas, two different games.....
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 03, 2012, 12:06 PM:
 
Koko I don't hunt or call coyotes to be cool or watch a coyote do cool things when the bullet smacks them. I never looked at it that way and still don't.. That sorta stuff puts a bad taste in my mouth just like useing a shotty does.

I hunt and call them because I'm getting good at it and thats what I enjoy the most along with a nice fur check if the prices are up...

I had a mini-14 once and if I remember correctly I got rid of it just a few months after I got it and I had to pay someone to take it..
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 03, 2012, 01:50 PM:
 
Out this way,you'd be missing out on quite a few coyotes if you didn't pack a shotgun. Sure it can be a pain in the ass packing both, but it sure has paid off for me taking both a shotgun and a rifle.

And I haven't had a problem selling the fur with a shotgunned coyote, one of the highest priced coyote furs I sold this year was shot with a shotgun,at about 20 yards..

Good Hunting Chad

[ March 03, 2012, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 03, 2012, 03:02 PM:
 
Okay, I'm not selling it. I don't dispute TA's opinion, but I don't really understand it? It's not like I'm spraying with a Mini14 or something like that? (sorry koko, couldn't resist)

I have always felt there was a place for a shotgun on stand. But, they are a pain to carry, I am very familiar with that!

Good hunting. LB

PS I showed my new shottie setup to a feller not long ago and the first thing he did was get down on the stock like he was shooting pigeons. Then he said he couldn't see through it or use it. Well, you have to make some allowances for the fact that the EOtech is mounted so much above the bore, something like an inch and a half? It is impossible to hug the stock and yet see through the holograph sight. That doesn't mean it won't work.
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 03, 2012, 03:46 PM:
 
Mr. Clueless do you base your sounds that you choose on the WT names or what they sound like to you? Trick question, be careful how you respond.
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 03, 2012, 03:56 PM:
 
Leonard, I didn't find fault in having an Aimpoint rail mounted on my Benelli. If anything, the height allowed me to keep my face off the comb. Naturally, my shoulder took more of the 3.5" recoil, but least I wasn't gettin' punched in the cheek at the same time. And the parallax free design of the Aimpoint meant that the 4moa dot was spot on, regardless of cheekweld. Granted, that 'head up' shooting style doesn't fall into favor with naturally shouldering, cheeking up & looking down the rail, but it works good enough on turkeys where I'm more apt to be aiming than pointing the gun anyway. And it should prolly work OK on moving coyotes, too. Besides, it ain't like they're friggin' doves or buffleheads!!!
That all said, I've since poured myself a full glass of the Burris Speed Bead 'kool-aid' and have one on order. With Cal speaking so highly of that setup & Jimzy diggin' his too, I figgered "why the heck not?"
 

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Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on March 03, 2012, 03:59 PM:
 
a shotgun is a plus and by leaving in the truck it has cost me coyotes on some stands, when I have it and working dens it is a great tool.

A guy carrying both even the wide open west will lay more coyotes down than one that just packs a rifle.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 03, 2012, 04:16 PM:
 
One perfect example of a good shot gun stand for me was this year in Nevada( November).We had just located a little group of coyotes( we had howled from the truck) they sounded close so we slipped over a little hill toward them. Sat down and howled. A couple minutes later we used the coyote pup distress. It wasn't a minute and we had 3 coyotes headed our way at mach 4. We just sat back and let em come no whoop, no bark, nothing. When the first two were in shot gun range I shot the first one at about 20 yards,and the 2nd at about 40-45 yards.The third ran off to around 200 yards and stopped and my brother shot him with his .22-250 .Definitely makes a believer out of ya. And like CW said there have been many times I've kicked myself for leaving the shotgun in the truck...

Edit to add: No speed bead on mine.Just a plain ol' Remington wingmaster vent rib 870 with a full choke tube 26" barrel( I got when I turned 12 years old) and Dead Coyote T shot.

Good Hunting Chad

[ March 03, 2012, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on March 03, 2012, 04:53 PM:
 
There is no way that I would even consider carrying both shotgun and rifle when calling alone like I do. When calling with a pardoner, there were many times when one of us packed a shotgun and the other one a rifle. I don't try to pull coyotes in by calling with wind in my face anymore either.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 03, 2012, 07:32 PM:
 
I tend to agree with Cronk, but there are times that call for both. My partner used to carry a Valmet in 12 gauge and 308 which he used with the .224 sabots, forget what they were called?

It is especially difficult, shotgun, rifle, stool and CS24L! But sometimes it is better to bear the load rather than be cussing under your breath, the rest of the morning.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 03, 2012, 07:36 PM:
 
I agree in some parts of the country or in heavey cover a shotgun has its place, its just that I don't call in any of those places so I don't need the shotgun.. I've called in doubles and thriples and took them with the rifle so why would I want to drag a shotgun along.. Like said before if I let the coyotes get to close I could wind up missing all of them so I just take them with the rifle at a range I feel comfortable with and make sure the area I'm calling in gives me a little room to work...

Chad I'm not worried about the fur on a shotguned coyote, I'm more worried about the coyote takeing a full charge of shot and running off never to be seen again.. Yes they can kill coyotes and so can a 17 HMR or a 223 centerfire, its just none of the ones mentioned are very reliable in the areas I call or hunt..

Leonard for your shotgun it may help to have and extended cheek comb which canbe added to your present stock or a stock with it already built in.. Makes it a little easier to get your eye lined up with the scope or halo site..
Most of the die hards here that use a shotgun/scope on deer have a raised comb on the stock. Just makes life a little easier is all...

Wookie as far as nameing coyote vocals its just a name to make them easier to keep track of, I'm sure if someone wanted they could just give them a number instead.. No one really knows what the sounds mean but you use them enough you will know which ones to use and when...

Edit to add::
Rich when you call cross wind you already gave the coyotes an advantage, they are already half way to your downwind before they get into range..

Here is a little tid-bit for you.. Keep placeing your call out and away from you but keep the sound cone into the wind rather than cross wind this may help you get the coyotes you are missing..

[ March 03, 2012, 07:48 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 03, 2012, 08:32 PM:
 
I may do that, Tim. Good suggestion!

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on March 03, 2012, 08:45 PM:
 
Tim,
I don't call cross-wind, I place the caller cross-wind. The speaker is pointed down-wind and toward that patch of cover where the coyotes hang out during the day. I like to call towards the coyotes rather than aim the sound away from them. Spooky coyotes, which is another way of sayin "Highly Pressured" coyotes are not likely to approach the caller unless they can either see the screaming critter or smell the screaming critter. When I first started calling I liked to keep the wind in my face. I used mouth blown calls, and the coyotes came real well for the first two or three years. After that, the coyotes stopped coming very often. Around here you need to get in to the cover before you will have much luck in calling these spooky coyotes. I learned from my own mistakes, and by listening to those callers that were better than me. For six or eight years, I drove over 700 miles to get in to really good coyote country in north Texas. Those coyotes were really dumb for the first few years, but like all coyotes, they got wiser. Think about what I am telling you Tim. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is sometimes called insanity. With coyote calling you need to change your methods to fit the situation in that particular area.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 03, 2012, 08:49 PM:
 
Leonard they have a vynl/foam cheek comb that is glued on with just adhesive that is easey to remove if you don't like it.. Not sure who makes them. I have one that I got from lock-stock and barrel which are no longer in business..
If you want to go that route and can't find them you can have the one I got.. They come in 3 heights I think and I have the taller of the three. When I went the custom route in my rifles I got new stocks with the high comb so I no longer use it...
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 03, 2012, 09:04 PM:
 

quote:

---

With coyote calling you need to change your methods to fit the situation in that particular area.

---

I agree and thats why my methods differ so much from youre's.. Even though I make some changes from time to time to adapt to a certain area the main thing is I don't give up the high ground or the wind (if I have a choice) and use the lay of the land to my advantage as much as possable..
Even though my caller sits besides me I still use it to my advantage by the direction I have it faceing...
Example if I'm calling with a cross wind the caller is on my up wind side and turned to face the wind or faceing the 2:00 position...
On a cross wind say its out of the north and I have a drainage running north and south I set up on the east hill side or where two drainages come to a point, I can cover alot more ground this way with the caller...
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 03, 2012, 10:54 PM:
 
You should get a louder caller, I don't think what you have is loud enough for the WT techniques. Get yourself a Krakatoa and then they'll cross any boundary line to get the intruder. Shoot, they'd probably leave a kill site with fresh meat to get you with that thing.

I'll even sell you an old programmable WT so you have the sounds you need to put on the Krakatoa. That there would be a winner, sure to help increase your fur money. You could even use the new FoxPro coyote sounds, which are better than the comparable WT sounds in that type of vocal too.

[ March 03, 2012, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: TundraWookie ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 03, 2012, 11:55 PM:
 

quote:

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You should get a louder caller, I don't think what you have is loud enough for the WT techniques. Get yourself a Krakatoa and then they'll cross any boundary line to get the intruder. Shoot, they'd probably leave a kill site with fresh meat to get you with that thing.

---

They already do that with the WT. even with the old style..

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/08-09%20coyotes/IMG_2005.jpg[/IMG]] [/ URL]

[URL= ][IMG]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/coyote%20and%20fox/IMG_0558.jpg[/ IMG]

[ March 03, 2012, 11:55 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on March 04, 2012, 07:02 AM:
 
I'm not worried about the fur on a shotguned coyote, I'm more worried about the coyote takeing a full charge of shot and running off never to be seen again.. Yes they can kill coyotes and so can a 17 HMR or a 223 centerfire, its just none of the ones mentioned are very reliable in the areas I call or hunt..

Tim that makes zero sense LOL. Try using the proper shot and choke and that shotgun is MORE than ample for coyotes out to 40 yrds. Tim you think you don't have situations where a shotgun would have added coyotes to your take even when calling SD hey?

Ol' Scotty looking good But what is your point? Because you called in a coyote off a carcass that is why the WT is the "Best in the West"
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 04, 2012, 07:11 AM:
 
My point was coyotes are'nt always going to come close enough and that 40 yd shot could turn into a 50 yds. shot. Any way its not reliable enough IMO.. Nope have'nt had a stand in S.D. in a long time that I wish I had the shotgun along with..
Get them in the open and below a ridge top and hammer them with the rifle..

My point was Wookie said this;

quote:

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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You should get a louder caller, I don't think what you have is loud enough for the WT techniques. Get yourself a Krakatoa and then they'll cross any boundary line to get the intruder. Shoot, they'd probably leave a kill site with fresh meat to get you with that thing.

---

Did'nt need no F-P to do it and still don't..

This is the kind of stuff I call around. Put them where you can handle them and you woun't need the shotty..
Thata a pair laying there together on the ground..


Another typical stand;;


[ March 04, 2012, 07:21 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on March 04, 2012, 08:24 AM:
 
Randy, hows the family doin, everybody readjusted to the new jobs, location, etc.

Hope so!
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 04, 2012, 10:04 AM:
 
Showing a dead carcass with a coyote beside it does not show that you pulled the coyote off of it. Anybody could sneak in and snipe a coyote off of a kill, no ground shattering technique there.

If you subscribe to the WT Loud and Proud ideology, then when does too much volume enter into the equation? The MA-21 is supposedly louder than all of their prior models, so does that make all prior models inferior?

[ March 04, 2012, 10:07 AM: Message edited by: TundraWookie ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 04, 2012, 02:58 PM:
 

quote:

---

If you subscribe to the WT Loud and Proud ideology, then when does too much volume enter into the equation?

---

quote:

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A fast human over uneven ground would have a hard time averaging 3½ miles per hour. A coyote can do at least twice as fast without breaking a sweat. So, that's 7or 8 MPH.

---

I could be wrong, but whatever it is, it's quite a bit faster than a human. My point being; even if they are over a mile away, they can be within rifle range in six minutes. That makes no allowance for the transient that is walking by, a mile away, six minutes into the stand. And, that's why I wait twelve minutes.

Good hunting. LB

edit: Notice how dapper Scott is looking, these days? He is wearing clothes I wouldn't want to be wearing, laying down in cow pastures.

]

[ March 04, 2012, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 04, 2012, 10:34 PM:
 
I agree with most of what you said Leonard.. Rather than move the volume up and down on my stands I just leave it play wide open but will start out with a softer sound and then work up in loudness..In most cases when cold calling you don't know for sure where the coyotes are or direction they are comeing from. I've watched some come straight in at a trot but also have seen them stop after going so far and then would have to turn the caller back on to keep them comeing or interested it.. I try to start my stands with less calling and as it progresses go to more calling knowing some hang up from time to time.. If there is one small hill between me and the coyote I may or maynot stop playing the caller and let the coyote do a little searching. Alot depends on how and where from my postition the coyote is comeing in and if there are any objects in the way that could mess up a shot or keep the coyote out of view I may keep the caller going hopeing to pull the coyote through the bad spots if any.. No 2-3 stands are the same but there are ways to make them work out so its a success.. Kellys sig says calling coyotes alot like checkers, IMO its more like chess and you need to think ahead and be as ready for the next move...

The pic I posted of Scott is an old one and the last time I saw Scott I had to take a double take as he changed a little but he is still a hell of a nice guy...
I hope Scott gets some time in the future to do some Rec. calling and post up a few pic.s along with some stories...
 

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Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on March 05, 2012, 06:12 AM:
 
Randy thanks for asking! Yes family is doing well trapped a nice pile of coons last fall and will be looking to expand my lines this year.

Plenty of coyotes around here for sure just all the 12.00 types

Yet still fun to mess around with.

I have heard their might be some changes for the postive in the program! I hope for everyones sake they fall in place and work out for the ranchers and you guys working for them.

Here is a pic of my new country far different than NW SD





[ March 05, 2012, 06:14 AM: Message edited by: coyote whacker ]
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 05, 2012, 08:53 AM:
 
Tim:I'm not worried about the fur on a shotguned coyote, I'm more worried about the coyote takeing a full charge of shot and running off never to be seen again.. Yes they can kill coyotes and so can a 17 HMR or a 223 centerfire, its just none of the ones mentioned are very reliable in the areas I call or hunt..

This coming from the guy who shoots coyotes with a .17 caliber at very long ranges and on the run no less. lol

Shotguns are VERY effective out to 40 yards,no matter what the country you're calling. Just gotta be alittle more patient. Just sit back and let em come. I've shot them with a shotgun in open country,with just short stubble grass,and also thick Cedar/sagebrush country.

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 05, 2012, 10:53 AM:
 
Well, the place for shotguns, in my version of reality, is to compensate for the irregularities of terrain features in many places I hunt.

In other words, it may be nice to have a commanding view from a bluff, but I have to deal with imperfect situations, or go home. I might have the best open view downwind, but be blocked on one or more sides which leads to the possibility of a coyote in my lap, while I am hoping for a nice, sensible 100 yard shot directly downwind. When they burst out of cover, they can burst right back into cover if I can't reposition my sticks quickly.

What is nice to have is a solid understanding of what forty yards looks like. I am someone that does not have much faith in shotguns past 40 yards, and limited faith within that distance. In other words, I am not surprised, at all if a 40 yard coyote needs another insurance round. Let's see? At $3 a pop, that doesn't leave much profit in a $12 coyote, if I have to hammer him twice.

I think, if anybody knows the usefulness of a shotty, it might be Chad, at night, from the truck. That is where a fair majority of my coyotes have met their end, but I still think a scattergun is useful on some stands.

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: I feel the need to clarify the last paragraph. Shotgun kills, at night from the vehicle are not common, but I manage to snag a few, depending on the peculiarities of terrain features and the fact that you don't know everything you need to know about a stand until you begin, )turn on the light) and then find out there is a convenient wash running right up to the road and that might be exactly where a coyote will surprise you.

[ March 05, 2012, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on March 05, 2012, 11:06 AM:
 
"In other words, it may be nice to have a commanding view from a bluff, but I have to deal with imperfect situations, or go home. I might have the best open view downwind, but be blocked on one or more sides which leads to the possibility of a coyote in my lap, while I am hoping for a nice, sensible 100 yard shot directly downwind. When they burst out of cover, they can burst right back into cover if I can't reposition my sticks quickly."
----------------------------------------------
That is the sort of country that I call also. I do OK in there with my rifle, but I want to try the shotgun real soon. Tomorrow is supposed to be a nice calm day, so maybe I can get out there to whack one. I long ago stopped using shooting sticks while calling. I sit with my back up against a tree or rock whenever I can. I sit with my left knee up, and use that knee as my rest.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 05, 2012, 11:27 AM:
 
The reason I went with a second firearm(shotgun) on my calling stand is because I was finding that to often I was limiting my stand selections when using a rifle only.

Leonard you know the country in Northern Nevada,Some areas are very open with grass and scattered sage brush with nice little hills for a perfect vantage.Perfect rifle stand.

But other areas are flat with thick sage brush,these areas hold ALOT of coyotes.But are pretty tough to call with a rifle.That's why I started carrying both.

Now I just take it(shotgun) because I have seen to many times where it has come in handy.Whether it be handling multiples or just getting an unexpected coyote in your lap.

I really can't think of a time it has hurt me to pack the shotgun along,except maybe when I've killed a couple big Nevada coyotes and I have to pack them back along with both guns. lol but killing to many coyotes is never something I complain about. LOL

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 05, 2012, 02:45 PM:
 
Well, I "thought" I knew northern Nevada, and didn't understand Dave's reservations about getting stuck in the mud. I found out within a couple hours of leaving a graded road, and we were stuck good. The trouble was, I had never been up there in spring conditions. By December, I was always through with Nevada and hunting along the southern border where the numbers are far greater.

Live and learn. Dave was 100% right. I'm surprised that in 40 years, I had never been stuck anywhere in Nevada. I can't say that about any other state, but never stuck in Nevada.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 05, 2012, 03:05 PM:
 
Yeah Northern Nevada can be pretty nasty in February,March,and April.Been there done that....lol

One nice thing about Northern Nevda though is it might get mucky as hell in the daytime with 50-60 degree temps .But it usually freezes at night at least through March.And you can get out of some of those areas early in the morning.Sometimes. lol

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on March 05, 2012, 03:25 PM:
 
I believe Gerry Blair made pretty good use of a 10 gauge out to 60 yards or so, using BB shot.

[ March 05, 2012, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 05, 2012, 05:28 PM:
 
I chased a coyote out of some thick stuff today to one of the blockers that likes to use a shotgun.. Coyote went past the shooter about 35-40 yds and first shot hit it about midship and back and knocked the coyote down, but was back up and running like nothing happened and then a second shot was fired which hit mostly up around the head and shoulder area and dropping a coyote in its tracks finally...
Good thing the area was pretty open where the coyote came out or he may not have gotten a second shot.. Its also a good reminder why I don't like shotguns..LOL
 

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Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on March 05, 2012, 05:46 PM:
 
i don't have much input on shotguns and how the perform on coyotes but... i would think that a shottie would be much more effective on southern coyotes than a super heavily fuured up northern??.
wish i woulda had a shottie yesterday in MT. wide open, not a tree / bush in sight and had 2 pales come FLYING in to my (FOXPRO FURY) fully volumed up. had one come to 4 feet .done startled the shit outta me,but i recovered and took her up the pooper straight away at about 150 with the rifle
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 05, 2012, 05:47 PM:
 

quote:

---

one of the blockers that likes to use a shotgun

---

And that there folks is how they do it in MeeenaSota!

You would've gone back later and got it with the .17 right? No coyote can refuse to come into Mr. Knows All Things about Everything, even if partially wounded.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 05, 2012, 06:01 PM:
 
That is something I considered, Chad. Many times, after dark, the ground is frozen and most any road is passable.

Gerry Blair came to a couple campouts and the guys were having their pictures taken with ol' Moose Dick.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 05, 2012, 06:08 PM:
 
A big dansforth anchor and winch can do wonders in the sloppy stuff.

How many miles of nasty mud and slop are you talking about being stranded in?

Maybe you need a Mudd Ox.

http://alaskamuddox.com/pictures.php
 

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Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on March 05, 2012, 07:24 PM:
 
Tim tell your buddy to spend a little cash give up the bird shot and get a proper choke tube and some 3" 4 buck or heavy shot and those coyotes won't have so much energy left in them.

I have shot beaver and coyotes with a shotgun, with the right shot and choke they are more than ample for the job. Nothing thicker and tougher than beaver hides and they die sure enough.

Tim because you have never used a shotgun doesn't mean they don't work well. They have a place as mentioned so well by UT caller.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 05, 2012, 08:02 PM:
 
Danforth anchor? I have one, probably not big enough for Dave's big Dodge ¾ ton. But this wasn't more than ? a quarter mile off the graded road.

Nothing thicker and tougher than beaver? Beaver is tougher than a badger? I can't imagine anything tougher than badger, but never skinned a beaver. I know that I have shot badgers before and I can't remember an exit on any of them.

Good hunting. LB

edit: the mud was gumbo. We had to search for rocks to bring close so we could bang the shovel against them. Otherwise it would stick to the shovel like glue.

[ March 05, 2012, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 05, 2012, 08:36 PM:
 
If it's bottomless mud, the danforth burys really deep and is a nightmare to dislodge.

Sounds like you were in this kind of mud:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwKNe_s_dLw

Nasty stuff to get stuck in and a good way to end up with good warpaint all over everything.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 05, 2012, 09:40 PM:
 
No not that kind of mud, the consistency was more like peanut butter and there was no free standing water, it was snowmelt but it had all sunk in, who knows how deep?

I was going to make a triangle out of two inch angle iron that I could break down and assemble as needed and use a come along in leu of an expensive winch that would mount on the trailer hitch. I have not made it but it's simple and once buried a simple, cheap come along with an extra pulley can help get a guy out of a bad spot.

I once had to dig two tracks just wide enough for the tires about six inches deep and a quarter mile long through soft silt from a flash flood that crossed the road and traction of any kind was impossible. The answer was removing the silt. Luckily we had a decent shovel on board. Western New Mexico. Should have taken pictures, but that's the story of my life.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 05, 2012, 10:24 PM:
 
Yep wookie thats how we do it here. Calling, hunt&stalk,snipeing and tracking them down.. Not many can say they can do all that...

No I would of stayed after it till we got it or got dark and then finished the job in the mourning..

C.W. 3" buck shot was used on the coyote and it was a male that weighed 42 pounds.

quote:

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Tim because you have never used a shotgun doesn't mean they don't work well. They have a place as mentioned so well by UT caller.

---

Thats where you are wrong again.. I have used a shotgun, grew up with the things and used them mainly for birds and fox.. On fox they do work really well due to the thin skin on the fox..
Just don't like the mixed results I've gotten or seen when a shotgun is used on a coyote.
Like I agreed with earlier they do have a place, just not here..
Instead of decorateing a shotgun all up to kill coyotes I would rather just stick with a rifle/scope...
The shooting distance is also more critcal with a shotgun than it is with a rifle, misjudge the distance by 5-10 yards can leave you with a mess. (wounded coyote)
Tracked a few down in my day, none shot by me but someone else.. I find a wounded coyote to be the hardest to track down and kill, they use every bit of cover they can find and use it well...
Longest coyotes I've trailed after being hit was 3-5 miles and took up to 3-4 days to finally get them..

[ March 05, 2012, 10:44 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 05, 2012, 11:05 PM:
 
That's way beyond reason. My general rule is ½ mile. If they get that far, I quit. But, you have a dog now. No problem.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 05, 2012, 11:16 PM:
 
Sounds like it might be a personal problem with you and shotguns Tim. Maybe you and the Crew just need a little more practice with them there scatter guns.

The ones I've shot seem to be quite dead when I walk up to them...

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 05, 2012, 11:33 PM:
 

quote:

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Sounds like it might be a personal problem with you and shotguns Tim. Maybe you and the Crew just need a little more practice with them there scatter guns.

The ones I've shot seem to be quite dead when I walk up to them...

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I think your right, as we don't use them that often. I haul one around for a few weeks then take it out of the truck and the other guy in the crew always has his so we just stick him where its needed, like on a bridge over looking a frozen creek or on the edge of some heavey cover where we know the shots willbe close...
Yep I've seen afew dead ones as well that got hit by the shotgun and I've also seen some just shake it off and keep on going...

Here is a pic. of one of the coyotes one of the guys got when it came down the ice torwards a bridge..


Oh shit where is the coyote?????
As you can see a large pool of blood where the coyote was dumped with the shotgun and then a blood trail showing the direction it ran after a quick recovery from being hit... This coyote ran about 200 yds into the thickets and took roughly a half hour and three trackers to find and finish it..
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on March 06, 2012, 04:41 AM:
 
Tim I hit one with a shotgun a few years back. At the time NJ would allow us only to use #4 shot (not #4 buck). Same thing, blood trail in the snow. I tracked it for a half mile crawling through brush until the blood trail ran out. I was pissed, as this was the first coyote I had ever called in.

quote:

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Gerry Blair came to a couple campouts and the guys were having their pictures taken with ol' Moose Dick.

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LOL Leonard I forget Gerry called his ten gauge "Moosedick."
 

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Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on March 06, 2012, 06:08 AM:
 
Tim never lost a coyote or two with a rifle hey?
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on March 06, 2012, 07:21 AM:
 
I have found that typically coyotes die better when shot in the front half with a shotgun verses shot in the back half. So it would be my recommendation to tell the "crew" to quit shooting them in the ass. Your success rate will go way up.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 06, 2012, 07:55 AM:
 
Yep, I agree with 3 Toes, aim for the head they drop like a rock...

Good Hunting Chad

[ March 06, 2012, 07:55 AM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 06, 2012, 08:48 AM:
 
Why doesn't the "crew" just do all of the pushing and Mr. Everything can do all the shooting with the .17? No runoffs, No spinners, and a Guaranteed "call em' back" that afternoon if any do get away.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 06, 2012, 11:00 AM:
 
It sure sounds like TA is the Supreme Commander of the "crew"? I wonder if he rates a BEARER?

"Boy, bring Bwana the Express .17, mox snell". "And, some hot chocolat, snell, snell!"

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on March 06, 2012, 12:09 PM:
 
You guys already know that most of those crews who love to chase coyotes with a truck, know nothing about shotguns except they go bang. Tim thinks that we have forgotten his favorite coyote shotgun which is an old Ithaca pump. He don't know how it shoots because he has never patterned it. You also probably realize that those who talk the most, know the least, and this is especially true when it comes to coyote shotguns and coyote calling. We need to buy that guy a dunce cap and make him sit in the corner or something.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 06, 2012, 12:42 PM:
 

quote:

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The ones I've shot seem to be quite dead when I walk up to them...

Good Hunting Chad

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quote:

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Tim never lost a coyote or two with a rifle hey?

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quote:

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Why doesn't the "crew" just do all of the pushing and Mr. Everything can do all the shooting with the .17?

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Dose'nt work like that here.. We hunt as a team and everyone has there place and everyone gets some shooting in..One shooter per side of section with a back up..
If we have a coyote going west a blocker will come from either the south or north rd. and move in as a back up and to help keep the coyote moveing to the oringanal shooter on the west road or to turn the coyote back into the section for the stalkers.. The blockers main job is to keep the coyote in the section and only shoot if the coyote made up its mind to leave it...
In most cases its still a one on one with the coyote and if it decides to leave the section the oringanal blocker gets first crack at the coyote and a back up will sometimes get the long shot after the coyote has left the oringanal section (safety)and was missed by the first blocker... We get all kinds of shooting practice in at running targets from 100 yds to as far as we want to shoot...
Standing on the road with a shotgun in hand and a rifle near by is going to cost you coyotes as the coyote may change direction real quick and make the shotgun useless and by the time you get the rifle the running coyote has already increased its lead by 200-300 yds and another 50 by the time you get it in the scope...
( thus the reason I shoot alot of 300-400 yds coyotes) If we miss some coyotes I will come back and call the area at a later date, but in most cases we just go after it on foot and track it down to the next section or two and finish what we started....

quote:

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It sure sounds like TA is the Supreme Commander of the "crew"? I wonder if he rates a BEARER?

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quote:

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We need to buy that guy a dunce cap and make him sit in the corner or something.

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Or you could just give me your's, only problem is the head size and it wouldbe a little too big for me...
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 06, 2012, 02:41 PM:
 
That's because your a Pinhead!
 

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Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on March 06, 2012, 02:44 PM:
 
READ
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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 06, 2012, 02:47 PM:
 
Thanks Randy, not arguing with the guy, just pointing out the obvious.

[ March 06, 2012, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: TundraWookie ]
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 06, 2012, 03:22 PM:
 

quote:

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If we have a coyote going west a blocker will come from either the south or north rd. and move in as a back up and to help keep the coyote moveing to the oringanal shooter on the west road or to turn the coyote back into the section for the stalkers.

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How are you maintaining contact with gunners and blockers? Seems dangerous if you're within shouting distance.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 06, 2012, 04:06 PM:
 
2-way radios. They are legal here for coyotes if you have the permitts, we do...

As of late some guys even use them on calling stands to talk with one another and let the other know there is an approaching coyote or two.. Each state is different though and a guy should check the laws to see if they are legal where they are...

Speaking of legal do you know its illegal to have big-game sounds on a E-caller in some states.
As a general rule most anyone can have them on there E-call just make sure you are not out calling coyotes when a big-game season is still open or a goose season..

[ March 06, 2012, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 06, 2012, 04:15 PM:
 

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READ
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The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!

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Thats pretty good Randy. So where do you fit in. I've seen you do the same from time to time...LOL
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on March 06, 2012, 07:11 PM:
 
"The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!"
--------------------------------------
Right on Randy. The only way THAT guy could be any dumber is if he was twins.
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 06, 2012, 08:15 PM:
 

quote:

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As of late some guys even use them on calling stands to talk with one another and let the other know there is an approaching coyote or two

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quote:

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What's up with guys calling the coyotes (or TWO) and you're not out there doing it in Your home state? Driving, bumping, running, gunning, and tackling the coyotes is more fun for the "crew" I guess.

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I do it all wookie, calling and hunting..
None of the other guys do any calling. Not very productive here..Yeah its alot of fun no matter how you do it or get them as long as its legal...

[ March 06, 2012, 11:51 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 07, 2012, 12:56 AM:
 

quote:

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Tim thinks that we have forgotten his favorite coyote shotgun which is an old Ithaca pump. He don't know how it shoots because he has never patterned it.

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Do you think I should???
 

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Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on March 07, 2012, 06:21 AM:
 
As of late some guys even use them on calling stands to talk with one another and let the other know there is an approaching coyote or two..

Tim nothing new there with 2 ways and voice activated mics and ears buds, I have hunted with a few guys who used them in the early 90's. Hands free and only have to whisper to make them work.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on March 07, 2012, 06:46 AM:
 
TA "As of late some guys even use them on calling stands to talk with one another and let the other know there is an approaching coyote or two.."

TW "What's up with guys calling the coyotes (or TWO) and you're not out there doing it in Your home state?"

TA "I do it all wookie, calling and hunting..
None of the other guys do any calling. Not very productive here.."

So which is it tim?
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 07, 2012, 08:34 AM:
 

quote:

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I do it all wookie, calling and hunting..

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quote:

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I wouldn't exactly call driving and herding coyotes "hunting".

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quote:

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Useing a snowmachine like Wookie does is'nt very sporting also...

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quote:

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I don't herd and chase down animals with the machine, just get access to call.

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And we don't chase down coyotes with the truck, just drive them to a location to get a shot if a coyote happens to come in that direction...
A coyote runs or walks to a caller, same here they run or walk to where a shooter is stationed...
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 07, 2012, 11:51 AM:
 
Here is a short clip of our hunt.. Do you see any trucks tareing up and down the road or out in the field chaseing the coyote??? Does the coyote appear to be all worn out from being pushed by a tracker???

[URL=[IMG]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/ f208/TA17Rem/09-10%20Fox%20and%20coyotes/th_Deletepartiallyof152010_112538.jpg[/IMG]][URL=http://s48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/09-10%20Fox%20and%20coyotes/?action=v iew¤t=Deletepartiallyof152010_112538.mp4] [/URL][/UR L]

Here is a 3 mile section and a stalker bringing out a dead coyote. Once again you see and truck tracks or trucks out in a field with over 3 ft. of snow in some places????
[URL=[IMG]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/09- 10%20Fox%20and%20coyotes/th_1282010_123324.jpg[/IMG]][ IMG]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/09-10%20Fox%20and%20coyotes/th_1282010_123324.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Same her, any trucks or truck tracks in the snow.


[URL=[IMG]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/2010-11 %20coyotes-%20fox/th_122011_100536.jpg[/IMG]][IMG]http://i 48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/2010-11%20coyotes-%20fox/th_122011_100536.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

The least you could do is come up with some proof to back up your false claims...

You'll have to click on some of the links to see other pic.s or vid.

[ March 07, 2012, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 07, 2012, 11:55 AM:
 
I'm all for killing predators by any legal method allowed. Calling such strategies "hunting" is up for debate I guess. Alaska does not apply the word "hunting" to aerial shooting programs. They don't call the guy with the gun a hunter either, just a shooter. It's simply that....shooting.

Drive, herd, coral,...whatever you want to call it, I simply don't consider it to be "hunting". Keep on keepin' on boys.
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 07, 2012, 12:15 PM:
 

quote:

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quote:
I wouldn't exactly call driving and herding coyotes "hunting".
Its the oldest form of hunting known to man and was done before dogs where brought into use..
Anyway its just another way of getting them

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quote:

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Might even be fun to do a time or two, but in the end, I'd get mote satisfaction out of outsmarting them rather than cornering them.

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Try it sometime and let us all know how easey it is and don't forget a few pic.s of your results...

There is no cornering them, its all open country and they can run anywhere they like. Just have to be smart enough to stay one step ahead of them..

[ March 07, 2012, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 07, 2012, 12:53 PM:
 
So you have guys that can call them in, yet you choose to drive them? Speaks volumes about your calling ability on your home turf I guess.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 07, 2012, 12:55 PM:
 
Tim why don't you just try calling them in with that top of the line MA-21.
 

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Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on March 07, 2012, 01:03 PM:
 
TundraW. say's
If you weren't out there walking the fields would those animals have naturally gone in the direction you wanted
so my question is to you, when you snowmobile into a spot, do you go back later to the same spot and find critters are using your trail from the past trip??. do you set snares/traps along any previous made trails??. call from the trais?? do some critters respond using old trail??
ai'nt taking any sides to your pissing match with Tim but from my gatherings, it seems you pick anything he posts apart and just find anything to hammer him on. this is one that really seems unjustified from my view.

i've done a few group pushes for coyotes and its anything but easy.
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 07, 2012, 01:25 PM:
 
bearhunter,

quote:

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so my question is to you, when you snowmobile into a spot, do you go back later to the same spot and find critters are using your trail from the past trip??

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quote:

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do you set snares/traps along any previous made trails??. call from the trais?? do some critters respond using old trail??

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quote:

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And we don't chase down coyotes with the truck, just drive them to a location to get a shot if a coyote happens to come in that direction...
A coyote runs or walks to a caller, same here they run or walk to where a shooter is stationed...

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quote:

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Tim why don't you just try calling them in with that top of the line MA-21

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quote:

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I don't call walking a 100yds from a truck and sitting on there ass for 15 minutes or less even close to hunting....

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quote:

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You ever call in Utah Tim? If you had you would know it can be a damn tough place to call Coyotes. Especially in the agricultural parts of the state. And I'm not one of those guys that hunts 100 yards from the truck either.It's not uncommon for me to walk miles to find the Coyotes.

My only point is you are always the first one that gives guys advice on calling,

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quote:

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You see Wookie you have no understanding of what takes place on one of our hunts.

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quote:

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Its mostly just one or two guys walking up on a track of a bedded coyote and hopeing to get close enough for a shot as the coyote jumps up and leaves its bed. If they don't get the shot or miss then one guy will stay on the track and another will try to guess where its going to go and intercept it if possable. It don't always work that way..

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quote:

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quote:
I don't call walking a 100yds from a truck and sitting on there ass for 15 minutes or less even close to hunting....
If you sat for 8 hours would you call that hunting?

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"Alot of guys blaim there poor luck of calling on the caller or its sounds so in there search for the silver bullet they jump for the next hot item up on the internet weither it be a new caller, remote with bells and whistles, or a decoy or a decoy dog and so on...
If people would just take the time to learn a little about the coyotes in there area and how they react to pressure they could call alot more of them in. And it would'nt hurt to learn a little about how to use some of the sounds properly as well they would realize they don't need all that stuff"...

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I know lots of guys that been calling for over 20 years, dose'nt mean they are any good at it..LOL Tim Anderson

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Hey, hey! Try 48 years and I think I'm pretty good at it. Still.

Tim, just keep everything in terms of generalizations. Recognize that we have guys here that can outshoot and out hunt your Minneesota ass, in their sleep.

Say what you have to say, but don't talk down to this crowd. That don't work too good.

Wookie, I'm not moderating, but I think Bearhunter has a point. What you think of how Tim coonducts his stupid drives is irrelevant. Some people think I'm not sporting to shoot from the truck, at night. Makes no difference to me and I suspect Tim won't lose any sleep over your opinion, either.

But, if it makes you happy, as I said, I'm not trying to moderate, just stating an opinion. And, I do not think anybody could accuse me of taking the lunkhead's side. I am not doing that.

Good hunting. El Bee

[ March 07, 2012, 03:53 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 07, 2012, 04:04 PM:
 
READ
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_____________________________
The guy knows everything and anything. If you've done it, he can do it better and faster with less effort. Trying to pin him down won't happen because the guy simply knows too much. Just ask him!

Leonard,
The guy can kill dogs however he wants, he knows everything and knows no bounds. It's just not "hunting" to me, that's all. I don't see the similarity between going out and calling an animal vs. pushing them with the "crew". Even if that animal uses established roads or trails created by man. This thread has a bit of everything in it though. Fun Times.

[ March 07, 2012, 04:19 PM: Message edited by: TundraWookie ]
 

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Posted by coyote down (Member # 2887) on March 07, 2012, 04:41 PM:
 
Tim

According to your above explainations on what coyotes in your area do, why wouldn't you want to chase them all into the brush. According to you all you have to do is chase them in a circle and they will follow you. If this is the case all you would have to do is choose someplace to sit hidden and they would walk right up to you.
The more you type the stupider your comments become sometimes. Coyotes that are being chased are not going to follow the tracks of the thing that is chasing them. Hell, coyotes that smell your tracks when coming to the call will sometimes leave and they are not being chased.
 

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Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on March 07, 2012, 05:12 PM:
 
Coyotes that are being chased are not going to follow the tracks of the thing that is chasing them. Hell, coyotes that smell your tracks when coming to the call will sometimes leave and they are not being chased.

hate to break this to you Sherlock but.....
they absolutalty will. you see,in the area Tim and i hunt,there is WIDE open fields with little cover. a smart coyote will not want to break cover readily. i've had/seen coyotes do EXACTALY what he's described so before some start piling on the gang-up bandwagon, best know what YOU'RE talking about
 

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Posted by coyote down (Member # 2887) on March 07, 2012, 05:18 PM:
 
so why not just wait for them if thats what they do in that area?
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 07, 2012, 05:42 PM:
 

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According to your above explainations on what coyotes in your area do, why wouldn't you want to chase them all into the brush. According to you all you have to do is chase them in a circle and they will follow you. If this is the case all you would have to do is choose someplace to sit hidden and they would walk right up to you.

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I know lots of guys that been calling for over 20 years, dose'nt mean they are any good at it..

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It was'nt directed at you or chad but at the guys that have been doing it for sometime and not learned a thing or gotten better at it..
Both of you proably realized that and just want to use it for another reason to ragg my azz..
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 07, 2012, 05:57 PM:
 
Tim,
I think the guys are browbeating to make a point without actually coming right out with a direct question for you to address. So here goes...

When hunting with your 'crew', I'd imagine you are looking for hot sign (fresh tracks) going into cover where presumably, there is a coyote or coyotes laid up? Or are you just pushing cover blindly to get something moving?

Either way, before the 'crew' moves into an area of cover to push, I think it's safe to assume that you have a reasonable expectation of a coyote being in that cover to warrant the effort to trudge through the snow & push?

Assuning that you have a good idea that there is a coyote laid up in that cover, here's the direct question: you've got a captive audience, so why don't you just bust out the e-caller, call the coyote in and shoot it?

Simple enough question.

You know a coyote is in earshot.
Why don't you just call it in and shoot it?
Why does killing YOUR coyotes require a 'crew', when you've got all the knowledge and tools at your disposal to kill coyotes anywhere in the country???

This is what I think is so puzzling to most of us. You seem to be full of answers and words of wisdom for everyone else, yet for some reason you don't practice what you preach?
If all your nuggets of golden info are so relevant, then why the heck ain't you cleaned out all your local stock?

Don't you locate & determine the age class of your coyotes before you hunt them?

Don't you start off slow & gradually build up til you "trip their trigger"?

How about all those 'perfect' stand scenarios you post pics of. What prevents you from implementing those same strategies successfully on a coyote you KNOW is within earshot???

If you've got a coyote holed up in some brush, then why the heck can't ya just wave the magic TA17 wand and make them come in for an easy rifle shot???

I've hunted around enough to know that coyotes in other parts of the country sure do react differently. But I'd sure like to know how all the advice & wisdom you spew is somehow not applicable to your own home turf???

Inquiring minds need to know!!!
 

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Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on March 07, 2012, 05:58 PM:
 
they don't do it enough to warrant the time. but they will do it occasionally.

now back to the cs24-wt debate
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 07, 2012, 06:24 PM:
 

quote:

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OK, here's what doesn't make sense from your explaination. If the coyotes truly follow you, why would you need another hunter posted up when they would be coming to you? If you have another hunter posted up and the tracker is bringing the coyote to them, then aren't you pushing him again, and he is not really following you?

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These plum brush thicketts are like little islands of heavey cover with little trails going through them that the coyote follows. As the tracker closes the gap on the coyote it will start to run in a circle staying inside the cover and just ahead of the tracker. If the tracker stops moveing the coyote stops moveing.. The tracker can keep going around following the coyote in a circle all day and the tracker could even reverse his direction, but so will the coyote as they can hear and smell you the whole time, they know where you are..
Here is a pic with some plum brush on both sides of the creek to give you a idea of how thick it canbe.

 

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Posted by coyote down (Member # 2887) on March 07, 2012, 06:43 PM:
 
Your still talking about pushing the coyote or the coyote being in (front) of you. I am going to restate my question for you. If the coyotes follow you (behind you)then why not just wait and shoot him? I understand about pushing one in front of you.
 

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Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on March 07, 2012, 07:07 PM:
 
Fred. calling during the daytime here is not like that. 99% of the time, a coyote KNOWS whats up before a caller even gets set
Coyote Down. what your implying could (possably) work if there were 2 people tracking. 1 following, one waiting but as i stated earlier, it happens so seldom that i would be basically a waste of time. for the most part. MOST coyotes will break cover when pushed,therefore the "crews" original plan would make more sence.
i ai'nt taking sides or sticking up for Tim but he's been spot on on this topic and it kinda pisses me off that those that don't know shit about it come here and question/debate it when they accuse him of doing the same thing on other topics.
i've seen Tim post's for a few years and he can give good advice and sometimes he pisses in his cereal. i don't believe i've EVER seen him say he can easily call coyotes in MN in his/our country,because if he did, i'd hammer him on it myself.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 07, 2012, 07:13 PM:
 
OK Fred I'll play along;;;

quote:

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When hunting with your 'crew', I'd imagine you are looking for hot sign (fresh tracks) going into cover where presumably, there is a coyote or coyotes laid up? Or are you just pushing cover blindly to get something moving?

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quote:

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Assuning that you have a good idea that there is a coyote laid up in that cover, here's the direct question: you've got a captive audience, so why don't you just bust out the e-caller, call the coyote in and shoot it?

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quote:

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Why does killing YOUR coyotes require a 'crew', when you've got all the knowledge and tools at your disposal to kill coyotes anywhere in the country???

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quote:

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This is what I think is so puzzling to most of us. You seem to be full of answers and words of wisdom for everyone else, yet for some reason you don't practice what you preach?
If all your nuggets of golden info are so relevant, then why the heck ain't you cleaned out all your local stock?

Don't you locate & determine the age class of your coyotes before you hunt them?

Don't you start off slow & gradually build up til you "trip their trigger"?

How about all those 'perfect' stand scenarios you post pics of. What prevents you from implementing those same strategies successfully on a coyote you KNOW is within earshot???

If you've got a coyote holed up in some brush, then why the heck can't ya just wave the magic TA17 wand and make them come in for an easy rifle shot???

---

Most of my calling has been done in S.D. since 1985 and thats where most of my exsperiance comes from along with what I have learned from my coyotes at home.

Yes I locate when I need to to find out whats there in numbers and age groups, young, adults and older adults..

Yep, some times very little calling some times alot,low vol. med. volume and high vol. each coyote is different.
Some coyotes are spooked by any distress sound and either run off or just lay tight and wait for me to leave. Most of the coyotes I have called in here have come in with the caller at full volume but you never know about the others so you have to try it with volume up or down..
Here you are limited to were you can make a stand so you have to make due with what you have.
I set up along creeks, fence-lines ,edge of cover, inside cover a few yards, or lay flat out in a open field, or on the edge of a wood lot...
On the coyotes I have called in I have to use a number of coyote vocals with distress sounds added at the end to bring them in, the sequences used are very simular to what I use with the more conditioned coyotes I find in S.D.
I called in 19 coyotes last year at home and I'm up to 14 coyotes here this season..
Look at the score cards at P.M. in the Greatwhite north thread and you can see how I'm sitting compared to others in MN.

If I had a magic wand I would most likely want to try it out, but I don't..LOL

My turn with a question::
How is your calling comeing along in Newyork???
Must be racking up the numbers there right???
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 07, 2012, 07:24 PM:
 

quote:

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If the coyotes follow you (behind you)then why not just wait and shoot him?

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Coyotedown. Like I said if the tracker stops moveing the coyotes stops and waits it out to see what the tracker will do..
When a coyote gets into the thick stuff we don't know what its going to do till we get in after it. some will pass right on through and keep going. The smart ones will stop and stay inside it and play hide and seek.
Once we know what we have then we will send in a second hunter to block or shoot the coyote as it comes back around. Sometime the coyote will figure this game out as well and break cover and make a run for it..
I believe most of these coyotes get there educateing (conditioning)from the deer and bird hunters and learn how to get out of there way as they pass by..
This will be one of the jobs for Copper come next season..
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 07, 2012, 07:34 PM:
 
Here is my take on the Tim Anderson controversy. I get a bit of a kick out of his crap. It is not that I agree or disagree with what he says, it is because he drives people nuts with some of his statements. So, I get a kick out of the way he can push buttons.

If what I hear is correct, he has been systematically banned from message boards for doing exactly what he does here. Oh yeah, apparently, in this particular case, what he does with the drives is substantiated by his fellow Minneesotan, Bearhunter. I could accept his explanations without Bearhunter, but with him backing up Tim and posing the question of Wookie; that maybe he is jumping his ass because he dislikes him for other reasons? And, I am not questioning Wooki's right to jump in Tim's ass about anything, I am just wondering if (in this case) it is well deserved.

So, to get to the point, would the membership like to see a vote, a poll up in the Member's Forum asking if Tim should be banned at Huntmaster's? Would that make people happy? As I said, this is not because of increased traffic or anything like that, I just get a little buzz out of Tim and his BS. He's my problem child, ya know?

So, what say you; do we string him from the highest yardarm? Do we Draw and Quarter, is water boarding too good for him?

Do we need to be democratic or just goose step him up the steps to the gallows? I'm just innocent Ponticus Pilot, washing my hands of the whole thing. Crucifixion is another worthy goal. Just let me know, K?

Good hunting. LB

Anyway
 

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Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on March 07, 2012, 07:51 PM:
 
funny LB. don't you or anybody get me wrong. i ai'nt sticking up for him because he's a SOTA man as i am. i seen a case of "do onto others" thing and just had to point out that he's been perty spot on on the "crew" tactic.
as i believe you have also
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on March 07, 2012, 08:04 PM:
 
Leonard,
I for one do not feel that Timmy should be banned. He can't help himself, it is sorta like O.C.D. ya know? The "I know EVERYTHING" disease can not be cured.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 07, 2012, 08:08 PM:
 
No, I don't get you wrong, at all. I know exactly what you mean and where you're coming from. I do recall that at one time, you questioned my fairness over some issue, don't remember what it was, right now, but I think you know that I try to be fair, and I am tolerant when people say stupid shit, and I seldom, if ever protect them from verbal assaults, in print. And, this is no different. He takes his lumps deserved or not, and I might even join the dogpile, if provoked. But, sometimes, he does not deserve what he gets, it's just payback.

I'm still listening. El Bee

edit: what does SOTA mean?

[ March 07, 2012, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by coyote down (Member # 2887) on March 07, 2012, 08:11 PM:
 
Your still talking about pushing the coyote or the coyote being in (front) of you. I am going to restate my question for you. If the coyotes follow you (behind you)then why not just wait and shoot him? I understand about pushing one in front of you.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 07, 2012, 08:14 PM:
 
Do what you think is right Leonard..

There you go again Rich. I don't know everything.. Check around on the other boards and some of the threads here.. I don't post in cat or Bear threads,Hog, handgun threads or big bore threads. I don't know anything about them so I stay away from them..

Oh Leonard Just FYI I'm only banned from one site at the moument (fins and fur) I was banned over at Rich and Dans board ( The professionals.)2 to 3 times but they invited me back again.. Go figure....
 

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Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on March 07, 2012, 08:15 PM:
 
yep LB. i'll certananlly give you that. you are very fair.
Coyote Down. ok try to get this......
a coyote as decribed in a push is not "following" you out of curiosity. it's usually when the snow is deep and in limited cover. can't say for sure as i can't read their mind, but guessing because the snow has been broke(trail) and its easy to travel??

[ March 07, 2012, 08:19 PM: Message edited by: the bearhunter ]
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 07, 2012, 08:19 PM:
 
Better not ban him Leonard, I enjoy hammering on him as you can probably tell. I get a kick out of reading his mostly garbage spewing and throwing it back in his face.

From the sounds of it, Mr. Knows All Things Everything is the head cheese with the "crew", calling all the shots. Hear Hear crew....you can't touch that land until I call it.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 07, 2012, 09:03 PM:
 
Yes wookie, I can tell. And, I'm fine with it, slice him and dice him, I get to watch.

They invited you back? Why on earth would they do that? Are they crazy? (just kidding)

Good hunting. LB

PS Hey we are both Minneesotans, we need to stick together, right?

edit: It's just that I have a hard time envisioning Tim Anderson as the Minneesota coyote Guru, running the "Crew", the General, as it were?

[ March 07, 2012, 09:05 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on March 07, 2012, 09:05 PM:
 
Coyote down, I've never been to minneeesota and ain't taking up for tim but even I can understand what he's trying to say (and that scares me) the coyote is not chasing the hunter, he's keeping his distance. If that means he's gotta stay on the other side of the bush then he does, hunter goes clockwise, so does the coyote and just like in the cartoons, it can appear like the waskully wabbit is chasing Elmer...

ElBee, I do have one thing I take exception to though, you stated earlier about "southern deer drives" we don't drive deer, we spotlight em just like the rest of the country.

Banning tim would kill the board, where else can one find this kinda info?
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 07, 2012, 09:07 PM:
 
You got me on that one, Tom. I laughed out loud. Good one!

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on March 07, 2012, 09:11 PM:
 
And tim, I think what most are tired of is hearing you brag up your expeeriense, knollege and of course the WT, saying most hunters need to learn their coyotes instead of looking for new whizbang features in a caller while the WT has all you need, yet you can't get it done on "your" coyotes.

But it is entertaining to say the least.
 

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Posted by coyote down (Member # 2887) on March 07, 2012, 09:20 PM:
 
Tom-I understood, but that coyote isn't really following. He's being pushed and keeping his distance to try and watch what is happening.
 

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Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on March 07, 2012, 09:20 PM:
 
Nice try Tom, but that was far too easy to interpret.
Spelling wise....

[ March 07, 2012, 09:21 PM: Message edited by: jimanaz ]
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 07, 2012, 09:25 PM:
 
Why would you want to ban him???
Hell, I can remember when Krusty was the `problem child` and that got pretty ugly at times.
And yet, Krusty turned out to be a pretty decent guy.
Tim is what Tim is. Sometimes he gives pretty good advice. Sometimes not. Usually, it's the way he puts the advice as an absolute that yanks people's chains.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 07, 2012, 09:48 PM:
 
Let's stay on the road, koko. I never said I wanted to ban him.

This is a Democracy, I have asked the question because it looks like some of us are willing to consider "sanctions".

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on March 07, 2012, 10:19 PM:
 
"No, I don't get you wrong, at all. I know exactly what you mean and where you're coming from. I do recall that at one time, you questioned my fairness over some issue, don't remember what it was, right now,"
------------------------------------
Since my memory is like that of an elephant, I actually remember two cases in which we clashed. The first was when a member stole my identity and you refused to tell me who it was until after his death. That was when I was forced to drop my last name as my official screen name, and caused me to lose my post count. The second was when I accused you of helping another member steal my identity. I was wrong about that one, because he had actually changed one letter in my name to make it work. Those deals were in a whole nuther lifetime, so all is alright now I think? I know you are fair and really hesitant in regard to banning someone. You and I were one of the very first moderators on another board, remember?
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 07, 2012, 10:20 PM:
 
Let the punching bag stay, they're handy to have around.

I think a bunch of GoPro video camera's are in order for the entire "Crew" so we can really see how smart those dogs are in MEEENASOTA.

[ March 07, 2012, 10:22 PM: Message edited by: TundraWookie ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 07, 2012, 11:58 PM:
 
Rich, on the second issue, I was not "involved" in the farce, but admit I had prior knowledge that he was going to do it. That does not mean I "approved". I did not. I saw irregularities in the registration and talked to him but didn't stop it. I should have, but I thought he was my friend and didn't have the balls to say no. (edit: he thought it was just good clean fun)

As far as the other deal, I took care of it and I apologized for not catching it. He let the registration sit for months before posting, just like Robb Krause used to do.

Thanks for hanging in there. Yeah, we practically invented PredatorMasters together, didn't we?

Good hunting. LB

[ March 08, 2012, 12:07 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 08, 2012, 12:15 AM:
 

quote:

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Coyote down, I've never been to minneeesota and ain't taking up for tim but even I can understand what he's trying to say (and that scares me) the coyote is not chasing the hunter, he's keeping his distance. If that means he's gotta stay on the other side of the bush then he does, hunter goes clockwise, so does the coyote and just like in the cartoons, it can appear like the waskully wabbit is chasing Elmer...

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quote:

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Let's stay on the road, koko. I never said I wanted to ban him.

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No but you brought it up first so that makes you just as guilty.

quote:

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PS Hey we are both Minneesotans, we need to stick together, right?

edit: It's just that I have a hard time envisioning Tim Anderson as the Minneesota coyote Guru, running the "Crew", the General, as it were?

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Is that legal Leonard???

Leonard I don't run the crew we work together as a team, we get together and talk over where we will hunt first, who will do the tracking and who will post (block). Who ever has the high ground calls the shots till the coyote moves out of site then someone else takes over.
I am the one that goes out and does the home work for some of the areas we hunt, I locate coyotes by howling at nite and I also pattern them by looking for tracks to see where they came from and where they go and how far and how many.. I get a idea of there core area or terr. so if we hit a section and no-one is home I have a pretty good idea of where to go next..

Yes Wookie I do have areas that no-one hunts without my permission and some of the guys have areas we can only hunt together in.. No free lanceing..The farmers kind of like it this way as well so they know who is hunting on there land. Once out of the area its then a free for all and we can hunt where we want if we have permission... Oh don't forget to turn youre sunlamp on tommorrow....

[ March 08, 2012, 12:34 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 08, 2012, 01:17 AM:
 

quote:

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No but you brought it up first so that makes you just as guilty. TA17

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quote:

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My turn with a question::
How is your calling comeing along in Newyork???
Must be racking up the numbers there right???

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Thanks for taking the time to answer, Tim.

Calling here has been both good & bad for me. Good in that I'm getting them to come in the daytime on a semi-consistent basis. But bad because I'm hunting more open ares & giving this dog deal a try and he is flat out spookin' every damn one of 'em! I'm having fun trying, but it's gettin' old...fast! Got no one to blame for that, but me, so I ain't complaining, just answering your question.

From what you described, calling here in MN is pretty much the same as here in NY. Night is much more conducive, but not nearly as fun and a PITA to do with our laws.
The coyotes are here, but they just don't come to a call like elsewhere. In fact, that's exactly why I asked you those questions! I feel so much better now that I'm not alone, LOL.

I guess that is why we have 'crews' here, too. But our 'crews' run trailhounds on coyotes, and it is becoming more popular than ever.
Cut a track, dump the dogs, watch the GPS and try to get in position to either:
A. get a bullet in the coyote out front of the dogs
B. get to the dogs quickly if they bay it up & get the coyote finished
C. get to the bayup & collect a stretched coyote

It all sounds like fun to me, but as difficult as it is, I'd STILL rather try my hand to call one in!!!
Maybe that's becuase I'm landlocked here and there is no better calling opportunities within a day's drive...

[ March 08, 2012, 08:49 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on March 08, 2012, 09:12 AM:
 
Did someone mention "Gumbo" in this thread ? Man I hate that shit, sticks to your shovel, boots, tires, fills up the vehicles wheel-wells.

Nasty stuff !
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 08, 2012, 09:29 AM:
 
This thread has it all. Product reviews, Shotgunning, T-shirt sales, Gumbo, TA thrashing. All we need now is some current politics and all bases will be covered.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 08, 2012, 11:02 AM:
 
Can you imagine? Tim is hard enough to understand with his Scandinavian/Minneesota accent but take away his vowels? He might as well use braille: ⠫

I only imposed that punishment on one person, Uncle Jay, and I don't remember why? Might be fun, like pulling wings off a fly?

Just try and stay on topic, okay? Next guy that tries it gets whacked.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 08, 2012, 11:57 AM:
 
Ok Leonard THANKS.

But your still guilty of premeditated banning...

Fred thanks for a honest answer..
According to some study we also have the Eastern strain of coyotes here as well....
The funny thing about them is most of them can be called in at some point in time which is mostly up to them and how they feel...

I had one coyote for example that I called to a half dozen times through out the season and never got a show or even a howl out of it..Decided to give it another go about this time of year, useing the same stand and same list of sounds and the dam thing decided that day to come in for a look.. I just had the camera along so I snapped abunch of pictures and let it walk off....
Went to the same area the following season and made a number of stands in the same spot through out the winter, Nothing showed..
Decided to give it another try late in the winter, early spring before the pups would drop.
Same stand and same sounds used and same results as the year before, here she comes trotting in to the caller and this time I had the Cam. and a rifle..
Yep nite time calling is a whole nother game with them but you still have a few that will only show up on there terms and all a guy can do is keep makeing stands and call to them hopeing today or tonight is going to be the right time..
The funny thing with the nite time coyotes is they behave just like a S.D. coyote when they come in, they make a straight path to the caller and then check up about 100-200 yds out and just stand there..
With my coyotes I've found that sound selection was more important than stand selection.(night time calling) The main thing is to give them a easey path to the caller, like bean stubble fields or plowed fields that have filled in with deep hard snow...
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 08, 2012, 12:39 PM:
 
"Sound selection is more important than stand selection"
?????
(Sigh)
I have sooo much to learn.
 

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Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on March 08, 2012, 12:55 PM:
 
yeah, that one deserves a big dog-pile
 

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Posted by Possumal (Member # 823) on March 08, 2012, 01:21 PM:
 
Typical dumb ass thinking by old T.A.. He can just make any kind of dumb stand selection, but still call them in by selecting the right sounds.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 08, 2012, 01:27 PM:
 
Koko for night calling here you can pretty much set up anywhere you like as the coyotes will come out into the open areas to get to the source of the caller and some will travel more than a mile. I don't need to set up along the edge of heavey cover or along a fence line or tree line. The sounds used are more important..
Another thing with night calling is the coyote or coyotes are already up and moveing around looking for food and if you try to set up close to the areas they are hunting in the game is up, they know you are there.. They feel more comfortable moveing around at night so the stand selections don't have to be perfect..

With day time calling though stand selection and how far you set up from a bedded coyote is right up there with sound selection for being important or to have a successfull stand.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 08, 2012, 04:03 PM:
 
"...........for night calling here..........."

Now those are the magic words. It would seem that night calling in your area is a bit different than it is in my area. I freely admit to having very limited experience calling at night, but it didn't take to long stumbling around in the dark through the cactus, catclaw, mesquite, & creosote for the dumb light to come on and realize that stands (in my area) are best carefully chosen & marked in the daylight. The return can then be made a bit more quietly.

I envy El Bee calling from the truck, cup holder at hand & heater set to `blast`.
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on March 08, 2012, 04:07 PM:
 
Amateurs!!!! If you use an e-caller and the proper rifle you don't need to select a stand at all when using Tims magic sounds. I just pull over to the side of the highway, roll down the windows and set the caller on top of the truck, when I see a coyote within 700yds I shoot it out the window then I take several different pictures of me with the coyote in different poses, I even put it's foot in a trap and take some pics, then I leave it lay in case someone else finds it and wants to take pictures with it too.

You can pirate some of Tims sounds from his website, here ya go.... A site dedicated to Timmy
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on March 08, 2012, 04:11 PM:
 
I'm only teasing you Tim, you know I love you like a brother.....a retarded brother......but a brother nonetheless.
 

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Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on March 08, 2012, 04:36 PM:
 
A miniscule departation from the resolution?
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 08, 2012, 05:25 PM:
 

quote:

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Now those are the magic words. It would seem that night calling in your area is a bit different than it is in my area. I freely admit to having very limited experience calling at night, but it didn't take to long stumbling around in the dark through the cactus, catclaw, mesquite, & creosote for the dumb light to come on and realize that stands (in my area) are best carefully chosen & marked in the daylight. The return can then be made a bit more quietly.

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