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Author Topic: Here's an interesting article
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 2 posted March 24, 2019 03:21 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
https://www.audubon.org/magazine/spring-2019/native-american-demand-driving-black-market-eagle

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31315 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7

Icon 1 posted March 24, 2019 05:35 PM      Profile for Cdog911   Author's Homepage   Email Cdog911         Edit/Delete Post 
Interesting. When I was rehabbing raptors and doing research in college, it wasn't at all unusual for me to be driving around with an owl, hawk, falcon or eagle in a box or crate on the passenger seat of my truck moving them from our facility to KState's Vet Med Center. I had a folder in which I had to carry 12 different official documents and licenses affording me to legally possess the birds. We did feather patrols every day and before public tours as well, and I had to warn visitors to absolutely not pick up any feathers they might see lying around. We didn't collect feathers for ceremonial reasons but because they were forwarded to a regional feather bank. On occasion, we would receive a bird which had sustained damage to its flight feathers rendering it unable to fly. The solution for that, a lot of the time, was to simply hold the bird until it molted in new feathers but that could take six months to happen. So, we would collect shed feathers, or harvest feathers from birds that had died either in our care or had been brought to us dead by game wardens of the public. Each feather would be identified as to species, type of feather and where it occurred on the wing or tail and filed away. The bird with the damage - it's damaged feathers would be trimmed to a clean end. Then, we would epoxy a wooden dowel into the hollow end of the feather vein, clip a donor feather to the right length and attach it to the wooden prosthesis thus recreating the feather like new. That way, the bird could immediately be returned to the wild having only been held a few days. The process is called "imping".

I vividly recall how big a deal it was for us to lose an eagle in our care. We had a juvie bald eagle go down one day on us. Turns out that it had found a piece of rancid jackrabbit that hadn't been recovered in its flight pen and botulism took hold. The bird was on the ground, unresponsive and barely breathing when discovered. We called our vets at KState and my boss ran home and got the activated charcoal from his son's aquarium, We crushed that into a powder using a hammer and a plastic bag then mixed it with water and injected it into the bird's stomach using a special syringe. We loaded up in my truck and drove like hell the hundred miles to Manhattan where the Vet Center is, my technician holding that full-sized eagle against her chest while holding its head up so the charcoal would stay down. We ran in the front door of the main building with this huge eagle flopping its wings to the sides. The nice lady at the desk tried to stop us so we could "admit" the bird. I told her to pack sand and pushed right past her while I told her to page Dr. So-and-so STAT, that he was expecting us. Moments later, we had ten vets around us. The bird survived.

Check out those talons in that one pic. I've had people question me when I said a mature eagle's talons are as long as their toes and as long as an adult humans index finger. They can and will hurt you. Don't know why I ever used gauntlets as they are no help if an eagle tries to grab you.

I really enjoyed my time with the birds. Was one of the three most knowledgeable people in Kansas at that time on birds of prey. Could tell you the gender of an owl at a glance - female raptors are half again larger than males. Couple weeks ago, a great horned owl that has been in our 'hood for several years now flew right over my backyard while I was standing at the grill. Told the wife it was a female. Without missing a beat, she just says, "You got that good a look at it?" LOL Hearing her hooting at night is like hearing the coyotes lighting up down the street. Gets my attention every time.

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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.

Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted March 24, 2019 08:12 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
My Moluccan Cockatoo needs a year and a half for all his flight feathers to be replaced after they are trimmed. He’s not an eagle but will hurt you if he gets his claws positioned just right on your knuckles or anywhere there is just skin over bone. And of course, they claim his beak has more than 600 lbs of pressure. He can take care of himself and if you try to hold him down, you will bleed! Worse than a dog bite. He’s not afraid of anything. My girlfriends weinerdog wouldn’t mess with him. Nothing ever happened but Pinky would stand his ground and wiener dog wouldn’t push his luck. It’s weird but these birds are scrappers. Not with me, but strangers and anybody he didn’t like. He would chase my son All over the house. Most parrots prefer either males or females and they know the difference. Humans. Pinky loves girls. But if some strange guy sticks his finger at him, it’s generally not a happy ending.

Good hunting. El Bee 🐝

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31315 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Paul Melching
Radical Operator Forum "You won't get past the front gate"
Member # 885

Icon 1 posted March 25, 2019 03:15 AM      Profile for Paul Melching           Edit/Delete Post 
Nothing more vicious in the animal world than a bird !

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Those who value security over liberty soon will have neither !

Posts: 4188 | From: The forest ! north of the dez. | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged
DiYi
Wears wife's pink panties under his camo for good luck. (yeah, right!)
Member # 3785

Icon 1 posted March 25, 2019 03:28 AM      Profile for DiYi           Edit/Delete Post 
Could get rich around here now.The snow melt is on exposing lots of dead deer and other carrion.The eagles are here feasting.
Posts: 623 | From: SoDak | Registered: Feb 2011  |  IP: Logged
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633

Icon 1 posted March 25, 2019 05:02 AM      Profile for Kokopelli   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
I don't know a lot about birds but I do know that if anybody doubts that birds are descended from dinosaurs, they only need to watch a Roadrunner hunting Lizards for a few minutes. Very intense creatures. Probably a good thing that they don't stand about 4 or 5 foot at the shoulder.

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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.

Posts: 7507 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted March 25, 2019 06:16 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
This is varmint hunting ancient history but if any of you people ever heard of Jay Nistetter and Bruce Kennedy and how a Texas hog hunting trip turned into a bitter feud. It involved a bird about 4-5' at the shoulder. I think they are called emu, but Bruce took exception to Jay shooting this non native free ranging bird, and it went south from there. They are apparently quite capable of disembowling (spellchecker can't figure out how to spell it) a human with claws that would make a bald eagle look puny, they are flightless, by the way. I believe they eventually buried the hatchet? Jay and Bruce, of The Coyote Gods fame, along with our own Victor Carlson. Vic had his tin type photo taken in old timey western garb and the expression on his face looked like he had a weasel in his pants. Clearly the least enthusiastic member of the posse.

The good old days, strolling down Memory Lane
Good hunting. El Bee

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31315 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7

Icon 1 posted March 25, 2019 04:03 PM      Profile for Cdog911   Author's Homepage   Email Cdog911         Edit/Delete Post 
I had never heard that story. Have a customer with an African grey. Smart sonofabitch. Learns new phrases very quickly. The funniest thing I've seen is that they have a chihuahua named Hogan, or Hogey. That damned bird will, out of the blue, say, "Hogey wanna go potty? and as soon as that dog gets to the front door, the bird does this cackling laugh. I think that dog hates him. That bird is pretty much one owner, too. I walked up to it on its perch one day and very slowly moved my hand in to brush it's sternum. You can actually get away with this on even a wild hawk. Sometimes. He let me brush him for about ten seconds - long enough for the owner to remark that he usually doesn't tolerate strangers well and for me to say something to the effect that I know how to handle birds, then he nailed me.

Fun fact, the vets I worked with worked a lot with parrots and pointed out to me that parrots and owls are the only two species of birds that feed themselves with their feet. I took care of well over 300 owls in my time with the birds. Mostly great horns, but scheechies, barnies, long-eareds, short-eareds and barreds.

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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.

Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588

Icon 1 posted March 26, 2019 04:19 AM      Profile for knockemdown   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
Darn tootin', koko!
No roadrunners here, but have seen them in out in your AO. What we do have a plenty are wild turkeys...they are such cool critters!
Being a dinosaur nut as a kid, can't help but wonder what it'd be like if our modern day turkeys were carnivores?!? Just imagine making a coyote stand, putting on some bunny blues & promptly gettin' surrounded by a flock of 15-25lb. mini velociraptors... [Eek!]

Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588

Icon 1 posted March 26, 2019 04:35 AM      Profile for knockemdown   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
As for raptors, friend & I witnessed something incredible up at the farm last month...
Have a big window in the living room that looks out across the top meadow up behind the house. Deer yard up all winter and feed out in the open again, once hunting pressure has ceased. Anyhoo, we were watching some deer out the window, as they grazed thru the snow. All of a sudden...a large bird swooped down and ATTACKED one of the deer!

We watched what ensued for a good 30-45 seconds, so had ample time to digest what was happening. It was a golden eagle, and it singled out a yearling deer...trying to knock it off its feet. The deer was not a small fawn, but not yet a full sized adult either. Still, prolly a hundred pounds, live weight?

Well, this eagle grabbed the deer on four different occasions as it attempted to flee for cover, which was about five hundred yards to the south. That path of travel brought the action closer to us, witnessing the eagle grab, and nearly topple this deer on a run! It almost had him pinned down, twice, but the deer managed back to its feet! The wingspan of the eagle nearly covered the entire deer as is stumbled! Alas, the deer made it to a slope in the field, and was able to dive down into the creek bed and escape...

The eagle circled and landed in the field. We grabbed binos, and confirmed it was a huge golden eagle! Looked like it was catchin it's breath, panting like a dog!
After a while, it took off, downslope, which carried it directly over the house! So we got a birds eye view of it, pun intended!

Pretty incredible to see, we ain't gonna forget that!!!

[ March 26, 2019, 04:36 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]

Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Paul Melching
Radical Operator Forum "You won't get past the front gate"
Member # 885

Icon 1 posted March 26, 2019 05:13 AM      Profile for Paul Melching           Edit/Delete Post 
I have seen videos of Mongolian hunters with huge falcons taking deer its amazing to watch its on you tube if I can find it Ill post it !. So cool Fred I wish I was there ! I feed the birds around here and have hummers in great numbers they are pure entertainment !

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Those who value security over liberty soon will have neither !

Posts: 4188 | From: The forest ! north of the dez. | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted March 26, 2019 07:55 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, Lance. Parrots feed with their claws, absolutely. And, it's interesting that they are "handed." Don't quote me but I think about 90% are right handed, just about the same as the human population. Their toes, (I think) are different from eagles. Parrots have two forward and two backward.

I have watched that video with the eagles hunting wolves and fox from horseback, a ridiculously small horse, by the way, seems cruel to ride one? I also saw the video of the girl in the article learning falconry with the Mongolians. Females aren't normally allowed to work with the birds but they let her and they said she did just as well as a man which must be high praise from that macho crowd.

Good hunting. El Bee

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31315 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
tedo
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4320

Icon 1 posted March 26, 2019 08:19 AM      Profile for tedo   Email tedo         Edit/Delete Post 
I wasn't aware that a eagle could swim until I saw one dive down and grab a fish that was too big to lift clear of the water. He did a face plant then did a butterfly stroke about 60 yards to shore where he hauled the fish out and stood with his wings extended for a while then was able to get air borne with the fish.
Posts: 73 | From: S.E. Arizona | Registered: Feb 2013  |  IP: Logged
Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7

Icon 1 posted March 26, 2019 05:53 PM      Profile for Cdog911   Author's Homepage   Email Cdog911         Edit/Delete Post 
Eagles are actually pretty good and pretty regular swimmers. What you saw isn't at all uncommon. Did a release of a mature bald one February off the mile-long dam at Milford Lake in Kansas. In front of several news crews. Bird went up, then swooped down and hit the drink. They got great footage of it breast stroking back to the dam where it, as you noted, jumped on a rock where it stretched its wings to dry before flying off.

Got a call from a neighbor once. He had a red fox for me. Tore all to hell. He was sitting in his kitchen enjoying a cup of coffee when he saw an eagle appear over a hedgerow with something in its talons. From a quarter-mile away, he watched this eagle struggle to stay airborne with a red fox until it gave in and crashed and burned. Once grounded, a flock of crows flew in and the fight began. He ran the birds off and recovered the fox. Took a lot of sewing but the hide was still good so I sewed it up and sold it. $20

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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.

Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588

Icon 1 posted March 27, 2019 05:27 AM      Profile for knockemdown   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
Last year, neighbor farmer up there saw a dead deer in his pasture. Walked out to inspect & backtracked the deer's tracks in the snow to see what killed the deer...
As he backtracked, there were several spots matted down & soaked with blood. More importantly, he saw imprints of very large wing tips on either side of the track! He followed this for at least 600yds across his big meadow, to where he figured the attack started. There was NO blood initially, lending to the idea that the eagle took this deer down, solo...

Dunno if the deer was previously injured, or not? But, it was a buck who'd shed its antlers, so was quite a good sized deer! Well over 100lbs on the hoof. Farmer's son hammered a stake for trail cam next to carcass, and got this pic:
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Friggin AWESOME!!!

Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588

Icon 1 posted March 27, 2019 05:31 AM      Profile for knockemdown   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
P.S., the date on that trailcam pic is a year ago, almost to the week, that we witnessed the deer attack behind our place! Wouldn't doubt if it was the same bird!?!
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588

Icon 1 posted March 27, 2019 05:35 AM      Profile for knockemdown   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
Video: Golden eagle eating a pronghorn alive
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted March 27, 2019 11:08 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Regarding speculation that it might be the same bird.

Look, I live in a bedroom community of 77,000 with about 14,000 single family homes, at last count. In southern California, you have to know where you are because there is no open spaces between one city and another. One side of the street is Claremont and the other is Upland, one is Los Angeles County and the other is in San Bernardino County.

So, I have a hawk that is very interested in the band-tail pigeons that come back every year from somewhere to nest in the tall Japanese Black Pines that are numerous in the neighborhood. It's not common, at all to see any birds of prey around here, it's not open prairie by any means. In fact, this town is what they call "built out" there isn't any open land available and it is either residential or commercial.

But, this same bird has been around here for several years and I think it's a sharp shinned hawk, last time I looked it up, but there are a few that look alike so as far as identity I'm unsure. But, it looks to be the same one and I have been very close to him/her with a dead pigeon, and he can barely fly with it, they are roughly the same size.

Anyway, I have very little reason to doubt that Fred is correct in suggesting that he thinks he has seen the same eagle in past years. I think this hawk knows when the pigeons return. He's a low flier, doesn't swoop down from way up there like a Peregrine would. It's kind of a treat to see him work.

We have a flock of maybe 40 birds that nest in 3 or 4 trees on the block and I don't think he makes much of a dent in the population. I saw one skeleton he left hanging on a branch of a bird the size of a mockingbird or a jay and he picked those bones clean. I don't see how he could eat a whole pigeon though?

Birds are interesting.

Good hunting. El Bee

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31315 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588

Icon 1 posted March 27, 2019 02:06 PM      Profile for knockemdown   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
Leonard, I have a fondness for those Sharpys! Especially so, after choosing the sharp skinned hawk as subject for my final paper in an elective course on birds in college...

There are plenty of them here in eastern fascist suburbia also! Just the other day, I found a pile of feathers behind my truck...good evidence of a Sharpy dove kill and subsequent dismantling. Every now and again I'll see one prowling low and slow thru the trees in the early dawn hours while walking the pooch. Fo sho, they know where all the local the bird feeders are, just the same as you know every In and Out within a hundred miles of ya!

As for that huge azz golden eagle, I figure they're so rare here that, statistically speaking, he's prolly one of one in that AO? Can't know for certain, but it ain't like we got golden eagles soaring around as a common occurance...

Still dumbfounded that a bird that size has the ballz to try taking down a game animal the size of our local whitetails!
Respect

[ March 27, 2019, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]

Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted March 27, 2019 03:54 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
There was a time, I "argued" with a Golden at the top of a windmill, encouraging him to get the hell away so I could spin the vanes and thereby get a little water on a windless night. It never occurred to me that he might jump me?

Good hunting. El Bee

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31315 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17

Icon 1 posted March 27, 2019 05:43 PM      Profile for Az-Hunter           Edit/Delete Post 
Took the family on a picnic back in 1978, just a short ways from the place out in the desert, big wash that had a water catchment system in place and was a haven for bull frogs. I'd shoot the frogs with my .22 and let my young son pop at them with his pellet rifle.
Taking a short hike down the arroyo, came to a place with very high dirt/clay banks, and half way up was a great horned owl nest with two fuzzy white chicks. Held my son on my shoulders and he reached up and snatched one of the chicks. We raised that bird to adulthood, never placing it in a cage of any sort. Wonderful interesting birds they are, when it could fly, I could hold a dead dove or any sort of bird, whistle and it would fly from wherever it was, land on my fist and have its fill.
When it was maybe 8 months old it finally would stop coming to the hand, but never minded how close we got to it and was always just around the place. The next spring it had gathered a mate and nested in one of our big pine trees, and continued to do so year after year. Certainly not the same bird and mate, but I can only surmise that the young birds have kept up the ritual to this day. Every spring there is a nesting pair in the same big pine, love to hear them and see them, amazing birds.

Posts: 1596 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Paul Melching
Radical Operator Forum "You won't get past the front gate"
Member # 885

Icon 1 posted March 28, 2019 01:42 AM      Profile for Paul Melching           Edit/Delete Post 
Was walking across the lower half of my place with my oldest nephew when we startled a coupe of very large owls off of their roost they flew just over our heads the wing beats were barley audible amazing for such large birds its was dark but could make out their outline wings over five feet.

My wife and I sit out front on a nice day and watch the birds , we have tons of scrub jays now and then they will land on the very top of a juniper or pinion and the hawks will snipe them so fast you barely see it. Bad place to land ! Some times I feel bad for feeding them NOT!

[ March 28, 2019, 01:45 AM: Message edited by: Paul Melching ]

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Those who value security over liberty soon will have neither !

Posts: 4188 | From: The forest ! north of the dez. | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted March 28, 2019 07:24 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
I have a lot of scrub jays around the neighborhood. They are more behaved than the mockingbirds, which build nests in stupid places. The crows steal chicks all the time, not so much with the jays.

Actually, Pinky feeds quite a few critters around here. Small birds can squeeze into his cage and eat his seeds and those that can't get in, he tosses stuff outside when he gets a bug up his ass. He can scoop anything, peanuts even water in his beak and toss it, and his aim is pretty good. But, also I have seen roof rats squeeze through the bars, not a full grown, but when they are about half grown, they can get in. All the stuff he throws on the floor is tempting. You know, he has an aviary in the house, but I put his ass outside in the parrot cage mostly every nice day. Then he begs me for a hose shower, this bird loves a bath. He even loves just the sound of water, like when I turn on the faucet in the kitchen sink.

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: I have a crow that has been bathing in the pool spa for the past week or so. Who knows if it's the same one, they sorta look alike, you know?

[ March 28, 2019, 07:27 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31315 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged


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