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Author
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Topic: Coyote hunters
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Dave Allen
Hi, I'm SUPER DAVE, IN CHARGE OF Q STUFF (and Goat Leader) "I'm really not trying to be a dick".
Member # 3102
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posted January 08, 2019 06:43 PM
Man y'all are getting me depressed.
I was thinking HWY 93 was the cats "meow" nope.
All this talk of fancy calibers used to get me excited. Not anymore.
Don't blame y'all for wanting to try different stuff though.
I'm tired. I have a 223 & a 22/250 & a 243 all loaded with soft point "old school" bullets.
All have killed coyotes.
I just want a weekend & not see anybody. I'll take care of the rest. It's possible. I'm asking to much ? our eastern friends are hampered compared to what were used to. (edit) I think ?
But, were used to what were used to !!
[ January 08, 2019, 06:47 PM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]
Posts: 1986 | From: Jordan Valley Oregon | Registered: Aug 2008
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Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
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posted January 08, 2019 07:45 PM
Chad,
My lust in my early years was for a Remington 700 "Varmint Special" in 22-250. I figured with one of those, I could conquer the world!
Eventually got one in the mid 80's and tried to convince myself it was everything I thought it would be... Truth was it was a pig to pack and wasn't handy on a stand, in the truck, or packing around the hills in this part of the world.
Sold it for a sporter-weight 22-250 and things went much better with that rifle.
Live and learn.
Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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NVWalt
Does not claim to be overly bright!
Member # 375
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posted January 09, 2019 03:31 AM
This topic sure has been an eye opener for me anyways.
In the 60's, 1962 in fact, I started calling coyotes with a Weems call that my mom got me out of an add in one of the sporting rags. There was only one other predator caller where I lived at the time in Lompoc, Commiefornia that I was aware of and never ran into anybody out calling on any of the ranches I did have access to. The calling was pretty good even for a kid that just read the instructions that came with the call and trying to go at it like hunting deer. It worked for me and I did call in many coyotes and bobcats that all fell to a 30-06.
The good ole days back in the 70's I ran a trapline for coyotes up in Washington state on the west side and it paid for a lot of Christmases and fuel and just lots of stuff. I also ran hounds on bobcats and the ole bread and butter racoons. Each coon was a tank of gas back then.The cats were better than a weeks wages I made as a union carpenter. Never ran into any predator callers either. I did some calling during that period because of my love of calling them in right up to me. Being the caller I Was the hunted and still get a kick out of it.
The 80's roll around and I was living in Nevada and the calling was pretty good for me and I got to meet some other callers around and discovered that I wasn't the only one in town doing it, but I didn't really run into but a few while I was out calling. I remember the wife always saying there were to many callers back then compared to when she started going out calling with me. That was in the 70's. And she was the best hunting partner I ever had, good hearing, good eyes and a champion pistol shot. But that's another story.
90's roll around and I would run into people out calling on a regular basis and there were lots of contests, like one a month in many towns in Nevada. I didn't run into many people out in the far reaches of Nevada but by the 20's even that changed and some of the ranchers I did know weren't real keen on most coyote callers because the few ruined it for the rest of us.
Now I am in Tennessee and the calling is pretty much like western Washington. There are plenty of coyotes but getting a shot off through the jungle is pretty fun. But I haven't ran into any callers here and the land is all tied up and there are houses on every 5-20 acres so it isn't a cake walk like I was used to in Nevada.
I imagine this scenario is pretty well played out everywhere you go now a days.
And yes I tried out the ole Johnny Stewart stuff and a Foxpro but ambushing a coyote from 50 yards away from the call just doesn't do anything for me compared to the thrill I still get when I call a coyote up right to my face with my own homespun mouthcall.
Anyways, enough of this old farts rambling.
Enjoy your New Year and good calling to all of you.
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Support Communism and help destroy the United States of America ! VOTE DEMOCRAT. "In the end, they aren't coming after me. They are coming after you!" D.Trump
Posts: 636 | From: Tellico Plains, TN | Registered: Aug 2004
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted January 09, 2019 03:46 AM
Lonny, the bounty is still going here. And yeah, supposed to be for the poor blessed deer. Gawd bless the baby deer.
Not sure if it has had any impact at all. There are probably some numbers somewhere, but I haven't seen them.
A friend I go calling with occasionally, really good guy, according to the agent that takes them in for his county, kills more in Tooele county than anyone else. Which, if you know Utah, that is saying something.
Killing coyotes ain't gonna un-build hundreds of thousands of new homes or bring back the winter range or un-build the highways across migration routes. The deer ain't ever coming back in this state.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted January 09, 2019 05:46 AM
Leonard, "goofy" is what is presently working, And, it's not as if it's just a cakewalk to stroll out and whack 4 coyotes on any given day, even in 'good country'. I'm sure you've had many a day back in your glory years where your team was humbled?
And please note, I'm NOT sharing all this from an advocacy standpoint, as I'm blessed to have friends with connections, so to speak! I like the body count tally, too, but not averse to this new format, as it doesn't really hinder the better teams from winning, either. Was just explaining, cuz ya asked...
To expand on that, the teams that kill a truck load STILL win most of the contests, simply because they have their pick of large/mature coyotes to submit for their overall weight. So, the notion that Pop & son (or the like) teams routinely pull out a win under this new format, is misguided. If any one of their coyotes is a dink, there's no chance. Just sayin, the "best" team still usually wins, which is why those teams still enter, too! From a sponsor/promoter standpoint, an obvious win/win...
To reiterate, all the stringer system does is set a more realistic goal to achieve for almost anyone interested. But, they still gotta kill their limit, which nowadays isn't as easy as it useta be....right old people? ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
P.S. I ain't using my Redline in any contest, cuz I haven't even killed a coyote with it, yet. Would be a friggn' idiot to take an unproven rifle/load out! So, trusty .22-243AI gonna do work, and that it does well!
Happy hunting
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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Eddie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4324
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posted January 09, 2019 06:49 AM
Well I read threw all this thread and it looks to me like everybody got their own way of hunting. Just because someone doesn't hunt like you doesn't mean there not doing it right. As long as there doing it within the law and having fun then power to them.
If we don't stick together as a group of hunters then we will lose.
My grandpa always told me to pass on what I had learn, so when someone asked me how to call I try to help them.
As far as hunting contest I cut my teeth back in the 70s doing bass tournaments. I seen just about everything you can think of go on to win a tournament.
For me the run and gun hunting you have to do to compete in a contest is not for me. Hell it took me 20 min. Yesterday to work this old male across big hay field to the 80 acres that I was hunting on. You can't win a contest hunting like that.
But everybody does it different, so the next time you want to cut somebody down because there doing it different than you.
Remember what the good book said those with out sin cast
the frist stone.......I ain't seen anybody in this group breaking a leg to get up and start throwing rocks.
That's my 2cents take it or leave it.
[ January 09, 2019, 06:50 AM: Message edited by: Eddie ]
Posts: 275 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Feb 2013
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 09, 2019 07:38 AM
Reading Fred, I had a thought. Maybe there is a way to appease the various factions? You would have to do it as a novelty, just like big dog, little dog. In some of the big hunts they used to have a "Sportsman" category. Didn't cost as much for the entry fee and didn't pay $8,000 to win it, either.
Anyway, what if you kept body count and then had some kind of a Calcutta for a 4 or 7 animal stringer? Separate entrance fee. Maybe it would increase interest overall? Not that I am of the opinion that we are desperate to increase participation, because I'm not.
We have been all around the block, in our little organization and folded the tent about 15 years ago. But, at the time, if you weren't a contender, you didn't bother with it. Some may find this hard to believe but winning a state hunt involved killing 45 animals, and there are accommodations that have to be made for that much actual space, which is why we had to go with a proof of kill. It can be done and with this crowd, you don't even want to think of cheating.
So, the field narrowed considerably and every team entered stood a reasonable chance of winning. And still the whiners that couldn't do it would grumble. Sometimes I think predator hunters give old ladies a bad name because we sure had enough petty bickering. And then it ended, the whiners eventually torpedoed the whole enchilada. And, we actually had a long history, something that might deserve to be preserved. And, nobody was in it for a huge payday. Just a stupid trophy. But as somebody said, in the right circles, that still earns some respect.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Ariel Perez
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4678
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posted January 09, 2019 08:26 AM
Fred I understand why they are doing these new formats I just don’t really care for it or agree with it. The coyote limit is a better format then heavy 4 but that’s just my opinion. I’m just stubborn in my ways I guess and don’t like seeing change, it’s just different from the way I grew up contest hunting. We got our asses handed to us plenty of times back in my younger days, so we stopped doing them all together until we improved ourselves and figured out how to contest hunt. Shit I still get my ass handed to my now but that’s just coyote hunting.
Chad there is nothing more I would rather see then a public land only contest in a designated area like Huber had mentioned. That really is the only way to really know who the best was for that time and location. Here in southern Az/Nm we have plenty of public land and coyotes to choose from and i like to think I can hold my own against some of the private guys but if it was Texas or any of the northern states there is no chance I could hold my own on their public land. Like my buddy from California says there are no killers on private just shooters, wallet kings and butt sniffers.
Ps: Fred my comment about not having enough land wasn’t generated towards you, I’m saying in general that’s a lousy excuse for somebody to use.
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AP
Posts: 60 | From: South/eastern Az | Registered: May 2016
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Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
Member # 29
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posted January 09, 2019 08:53 AM
Lonny, back in the day I packed heavy barreled rifles on stand as well, for a few years...then realized it was a waste of energy. I had heavy Remingtons, Rugers and Winchesters, they were all good shooters but a giant pain in the ass overall. I rationalized it by telling myself that a heavy rifle was more stable etc, but I went back to sporter weight guns and that was that.
I remember when Varmint Hunter magazine in late 90's into 2000's, ran articles debating light vs heavy coyote rifles. Of course the coyote calling thing was just taking off with them and most other people in the country, but it was amusing to watch the back and forth...eventually the "walking rifle" moniker was invented for strolling the prairies shooting coyotes and cute little rodents, which probly is still in effect to this day with middle America.
Actually, I had a Winchester rifle, that was in between a sporter weight and medium heavy. I actually loved that thing, it was a "heavy sporter" and I did well with it. Who knows what I traded it for?
Mark
[ January 09, 2019, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]
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When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
Posts: 2083 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 09, 2019 09:00 AM
It's just no damned wonder some people have such a negative opinion on hunt contests!
On the other hand, I think it's incredibly stupid to pass laws prohibiting them.
No shortage of crybabies that enter hunt contests.
Still, I have to say, increasing participation in these hunts is misguided. I'm sorry, I can't figure a reason for a stringer. My 4 selected coyotes are a bit heavier than yours? How did that involve skill? Who gives a shit about increasing participation, pop & son teams, etc.? That's like participation trophies in soccer.
Maybe Scott's suggestion has merit? I just know it wo uld be a nightmare to organize and administer. Still a crapshoot though. I think a shotgun only hunt might be cute, kinda novel. No more Redline's! Ban 'em! See, right there, that's the kind of left turn thinking by people that just don't get it anyway, and never will. Heaven forbid putting folks like that in charge of anything! Liberals can fuck up a wet dream!
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: Mark, the rifle I carry now, on stand has a fairly heavy barrel. I just don't buy into the argument. Why stop at barrels, get militant about scopes. Anyway, It's not like I'm lugging this rifle up mountains. I always have another rifle handy if I decide to go on a "walkabout". Remember my concept, it's like a bag of golf clubs. Sometimes you need a driver and other times you are faced with a chip shot. LB
[ January 09, 2019, 09:06 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted January 09, 2019 09:25 AM
Mark, all of my calling rifles are heavy sporter barrels. Lilja #4. More sporter than heavy, but more meat than an ADL for sure.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted January 09, 2019 09:34 AM
Hunting Public land is only half the deal. A drawing of areas would be the other half. That way you don’t know for sure where you will be hunting. I know the World Contest has turned to shit the last couple years. It has always moved around. Lately it has been in Arizona the last 4 out of 5 years. Was supposed to have stayed in Utah but that changed. Even then you have guys flying into Utah on a commercial flight from Texas to check in for the contest then flying back to Texas the same day Hunting a private ranch down there and driving all night to check in. That’s why a lot of guys are done hunting the World, myself included.Just not worth the effort.
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Ariel Perez
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4678
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posted January 09, 2019 09:57 AM
Chad it has gone to shit, we entered it this year for the first time ever and it was a bust and I was so disappointed, ever since I was in middle school and high school I have always followed worlds and always dreamed of entering it. 15 years later things finally pan out for me to enter it and there was fukin 19 teams, what a joke.
The flying back to Texas and killing 25 coyotes in a day then driving all the way to checkin did happen and I’m sure it scared off a lot of teams. But those rules have been set for years and years from my understanding and everybody is allowed to do it somebody finally did and killed a pile and now everybody is hurt.
What really hurt worlds is the new owner. Raffling off donated guns, auctioning off donated scopes and suppressors and so on and so on. People can do simple math and things weren’t adding up, I will say though that for only having 19 teams it payed better then the western leg in Utah and they had 35 teams. So the owner is trying to push it in the right direction but I think it’s too late.
I doubt I will enter it again unless ownership changes. Crazy thing is the owner wants somewhere between 20-25k to sell the contest??? How he thinks it’s worth 20k is beyond me.
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AP
Posts: 60 | From: South/eastern Az | Registered: May 2016
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted January 09, 2019 10:32 AM
Yeah I don’t have anything good to say about the guy who runs the Worlds. We won biggest Coyote last year in Utah and you’d have thought we had robbed a bank or something. He just couldn’t believe we could have shot such a heavy Coyote without cheating. I was talking with Garvin Young while we were waiting for an official weight and he said that in the 20 years they had been in the Contest no one had checked in a coyote over 40 lbs. That’s why they were thinking it wasn’t legit. But we ended up eventually winning it with a 45lbs Coyote. But it really soured me that he acted like that.
Like I said that last World Contest will probably be my last.
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
Member # 29
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posted January 09, 2019 01:17 PM
LB yeah I run a few different rifles for different things, along with a couple shotguns. I do have a favorite little Model 700 that I tote almost all the time now though.
Dave I do like that size barrel.
Mark
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When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
Posts: 2083 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 09, 2019 01:19 PM
The last time I attended that hunt, it was in Williams. Cal Taylor was right behind or ahead of us in line and I saw a little dog he had, but the guy checking animals just tossed it. Cal just shrugged, but I ran down the guy running the hunt and bitched about it. He went up and asked the guy what the deal was and went and looked at it and told him to accept it. So Cal and Cinny won that little dog which was less than 8 pounds. We were second, with an 11 pounder but I just thought it was bullshit to toss that pup the way he did. Anyway, Cal knew I went to bat for him and appreciated it. I guess he's a little more shy than I am?
It was $800 bucks, so at least it paid for his gas
Anyway, I seem to remember it being alternately between Williams and Cortez, CO? When did it get to be Utah? Shit, there ain't any coyotes to speak of, in Utah!
Good hunting. El Bee
[ January 09, 2019, 01:23 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted January 09, 2019 02:09 PM
It usually would be changed up every two years. 2 years in Arizona, then a couple years in New Mexico, then 2 in Cortez, then 2 years in Elko. 2017 was the first year it was in Utah. And it was set in Utah again for 2018, I was still planning on hunting it again, then I got a letter in around August saying they were changing it back to Arizona. I said bullshit to that and we decided to be done with it. I’ve Hunted the Elko hunt a few times and it is always fun.
[ January 09, 2019, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted January 09, 2019 03:21 PM
Leonard, the heaviest 3-4 coyote weight total seems to be working, least for the one day contest I look forward to in OK. And my Okies hunt a bunch more 'smallish' contests that have adopted the same terms...
And, I don't think the change was so much to increase participation, rather it was considered as a remedy to make the contest appealing again for teams who stopped showing up. It don't take many years for teams to show up, only to get their azz handed to them by the same few killer teams, year after year, for participation to suffer as a result...
I don't follow the World hunts closely, but could be the same shit is happening, on a more grand scale. Reckon teams just ain't bothering to sign up, since they know the odds are stacked against them?
After all, who the heck would wanna spend all the time, effort and money trying to compete against a coupla ringers with enough land locked up for it to be its own State, let alone teams with a jet at their disposal??? That kinda shit puts a bad taste in ones mouth. Legality be darned...
Whereas, these little local day hunt contests are doing fair to middlin, thanks to the format change, and most everyone seems to having a fun time of it. Go figure?
And yeah, #4 sporter contour in a Micky GameScout is my kinda honey of a rifle!
[ January 09, 2019, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted January 09, 2019 03:43 PM
That’s funny you say that about top 4 coyotes by weight. I don’t think we finished in the top twenty in the World. We shot a measly 4 coyotes. The winners from Texas won it with 26 I think. But those pussy little Texas coyotes they shot would have hurt them. I bet we would have won the World Contest. We shot a 45 lbs coyote, 38 lbs Coyote and 2 in the mid Twenties. We would have won and the team that won probably wouldn’t have got in the top 10. Those coyotes were noticeably smaller than most that were checked in. Lol
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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DiYi
Wears wife's pink panties under his camo for good luck. (yeah, right!)
Member # 3785
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posted January 10, 2019 04:50 AM
Move the 'worlds' to the Dakotas or Montana.Rent snowshoes reasonably.Bet lotsa people would show up.Many like snow and cold and longer range shooting.LB misses Mn I bet."No name' would show as well.
Posts: 623 | From: SoDak | Registered: Feb 2011
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 10, 2019 08:04 AM
Yeah, I miss Minneesota! Or, you haven't been paying attention. I had enough of that weather by the time I was 12 and I've never been back. I guess there is about 2-3 weeks in the spring that would be ok before the mosquitoes hatch?
The lake fishing in the summer was pretty good, for Northerns, maybe a few Walleyes?
No, I can do without that state. I think the main attraction is the Swedes and a country similar to where they all came from. 10,000 Lakes? I heard Florida has 20,000?
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: PS I have my snowshoes, just in case.
[ January 10, 2019, 08:06 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DiYi
Wears wife's pink panties under his camo for good luck. (yeah, right!)
Member # 3785
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posted January 11, 2019 02:56 AM
No I was kidding LB,it's still F ing miserable here and I'm close to giving in to the boss and getting the hell out winters.We've been spending 5-6 of the worst weeks in SE Kansas and the coyote hunting there is pretty good and she is much happier so....I'm 75 now and it's not getting any easier dealing with cold n snow with age.
Wednesday AM it was minus 3 here with a nasty wind to boot.Shot one that required quite a drag including crossing about 100 yd strip of drifted cattails.Wasn't wearing snowshoes cause in windswept areas it wasn't necessary but oh man,kept breaking through to the waist in those cattails and finally left the coyote rather than have the big one.Went back yesterday when it was a balmy 6 degrees and got it.With shoes.
Just ain't as much fun anymore at my age.
Posts: 623 | From: SoDak | Registered: Feb 2011
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Dave Allen
Hi, I'm SUPER DAVE, IN CHARGE OF Q STUFF (and Goat Leader) "I'm really not trying to be a dick".
Member # 3102
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posted January 11, 2019 07:16 AM
I might be close to caving myself. I'm 53 & the last few years seem to be getting to me ?
We've had a mild winter 20 above now with about 80% humidity & no wind. Used to not bother me.
I don't know do ya trade miserable hot summers for mild winters ? I know what Koko would say ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posts: 1986 | From: Jordan Valley Oregon | Registered: Aug 2008
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted January 11, 2019 10:40 AM
Arielp, The reason why the World paid out more than the west leg of the new contest is simple. The World has a $300 per team entry fee plus Calcutta. and the the new contest has a $150 per team entry fee.
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Paul Melching
Radical Operator Forum "You won't get past the front gate"
Member # 885
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posted January 11, 2019 10:43 AM
I don't miss the heat of the valley of the Sun used to be anything under 110 was okay then as I got older it got old, now in northern Arizona the winters are getting harder its not the weather its my Age ! Everything is more difficult !
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Those who value security over liberty soon will have neither !
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