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Author
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Topic: Soon....what will happen?
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 21, 2018 04:36 PM
Don't we think the PUBLIC is too ignorant to have an intelligent discussion about guns?
For instance, there must be 75% of the population that couldn't define "Assault Weapon" if their life depended on it? Are we being sold down the river because of an unreasonable fear of BLACK GUNS?
Look, I have to say, and I have been saying for years, AR15's are not doing us any favors. I don't like them, never have. But, if Diane Finestein can't define "assault weapon" how can anybody except they are scary and black and they have (OMG) a bayonet lug. If you make the stock weird looking so it doesn't have a friggin' pistol grip, is that an evasion, and does it satisfy the radicals? I'd say it just pisses them off because they want to ban something and cannot define it, and the rest of us should just go along with it because....nobody needs to shoot a deer 20 times.
It's all ignorance. They don't know what they are talking about and don't think they need to be knowledgeable, just be reasonable and let them restrict our rights. But, they will be back. Don't forget, one of those shootings at a Naval Yard, the shooter used a shotgun. In Kalifornia, ten round mags is allowed. Never mind that all gun companies make and sell a 9MM that will hold at least 15 rounds, maybe 19? But I can only have 10 rounds because ignorant people are scared. To accommodate them, I have to give up my rights.
All you people that don't have to worry about this little problem, maybe next year it will be a federal law? If it can happen here, it can happen where you are. So, I can't order ammo from out of state. What will be the ramifications, down the road? Who knows but my Democrat legislature is working night and day to get rid of Lead bullets and any other stupid regulation they can dream up.
So the question today is: what can we live with? I kinda think we can live if they "close the loophole" which is non existent anyway.
Would it be possible to ban the AR15? I don't see how they can but the opposition doesn't see what the problem is? It's a weapon of war with one purpose, to kill as many people as possible in the shortest time possible. How the hell do you fight ignorance like that? Do you think they understand that a wood stocked Remington 760 works exactly the same way?
Okay, what can we give up. What can we live with? We will lose something, we never gain a damned thing, we always lose in these intelligent discussions. A National discussion means they have the ball on our 20 yard line. If they move it one yard, they win. Do you get the feeling it's not a fair fight?
Any comments?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Dave Allen
Hi, I'm SUPER DAVE, IN CHARGE OF Q STUFF (and Goat Leader) "I'm really not trying to be a dick".
Member # 3102
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posted February 21, 2018 07:24 PM
I need to comment on everything you posted today LB.
I just don't have time right now. Isn't that the problem really nobody has time ?
I ran errands after work, fed my critters. I'm almost dead tired, need to pay bills ect..
Certain elements within our society seem to have plenty of time. Right ? plenty of time to attack folks who just mind their own business right ?
Folks who just want a gun for whatever reason other than to harm people unless they intend to harm us.
Right ?
Yet we have soy-boys on TV pressing for more protection ? pressing to make it harder for me & you to buy or own firearms right ?
Y'all ever figure were being set up ? ya don't 'spose this is all rigged do ya ?
Seems like me n' Moe have mentioned that before only to basically be called a dumb-fuck by somebody here ?
Lets not forget. Vegas ? y'all good with that ?
It was a mad gunman ?. I questioned that & was softly called out. Remember ?
Why all the confusion about everything ? Huh ? doesn't it seem like a broken record ?
I'm done.
Wake up people !!
Posts: 1986 | From: Jordan Valley Oregon | Registered: Aug 2008
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Eddie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4324
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posted February 22, 2018 09:17 AM
I read that Trump wants to take the right away of anybody 20thru18 from buying a gun.
I feel that if your old enough to go to war and die for your country than you ought to be able to buy a gun. Don't say much about politics but what he said about the age to buy a gun pissed me off. Brought back old memories of the early 70's here in Okla. you could go to war but you couldn't buy beer in this state till you were 21. It's change now but it still a sore spot for me.
Posts: 275 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Feb 2013
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Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
Member # 29
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posted February 22, 2018 12:12 PM
Once again, Republicans and gun rights persons go on a CNN "town hall" and get called murderers and everything else, with no interjection by the "moderator".
Why dont these guys get it? STOP participating in these idiotic settings when they are run by liberals that are not going to give you a fair shake. It fucking silly.
In my view, everyone in that audience...mostly kids..proved the point that they are very close to the mindset of the killer. They cant be anywhere near tolerant or contain themselves, lashing out, they have to threaten people, yell murderer, act like little animals. Dana L. had to be escorted out under security.
What a bunch of hypocritical fucks, kids and all.
I stole this off of pm, and I dont care, its a great but obvious synopsis:
"COMMENTS:
allangen
5 hours ago
We are living in a post Christian and a post constitutional society. The normal restraints that used to guide our behavior no longer apply. The ethic now is self interest, narcissism, and 'catch me if you can." The bottom fell out of our constitutional republic and we became a third world toilet when Obozo criminalized the federal agencies to go after political enemies like they do in every other tawdry and sleazy third world sh * thole.
There are still some among us who would attempt to restore morality and honor in human relations and in government. We are mocked not just by the entertainment industry but by a media and globalist elite that has had their fill of what the founding fathers tried to erect and nourish on these shores. The Democrats have thrown in their lot with the Marxists who wish to destroy all we have built over the centuries. The GOP is spineless and cowardly in the face of this threat. Donald gave voice to a population that had had enough of a corrupt and dysfunctional status quo. It is up to us to build a new party and a new movement to restore constitutional government and the rule of law."
The thing with kids killing kids goes deeper than that, but this country has lost its fucking way for sure.
Mark
[ February 22, 2018, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]
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When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
Posts: 2083 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 22, 2018 12:14 PM
What I find interesting right now is the talk about the Bump stock issue. I heard/or read? That 15 Democrat senators voted against the proposal? I'm not sure of that, but the main thing is, the issue didn't pass and I have to wonder why?
As far as I am concerned, they can have bump stocks and those hand crank devices. My understanding is the recent M4 does not have a full auto selection, just semi auto and 3 round bursts. If the Army's reasons make sense, that's good enough for me. My experience with full auto is frightfully limited but I also know how much lead you can send downstream by pulling the trigger one round at a time, and it's accuracy potential is increased by a factor of (what) 3-5? at least?
Full auto from a machine-gun on a tripod is a different animal, they can spray effectively, but a shoulder fired weapon is liable to jump right off the paper (target) after the first 2 or 3 rounds.
Bottom line, I don't see why anybody needs a bump stock and I would like to know why it was defeated? However, Trump signed some kind of Executive order directing DJ to restrict those devices.
Now, the broken record bullshit about "LOOPHOLES" in background checks, and the lying cocksuckers imply that it's about Gun Shows. So far as I know, it only involves face to face sales between people that know each other and it's only in a very few states? That's something we could probably do without, IF WE HAD TO. I don't like the idea of not being able to "give" a gun to my son in law. Pay a fee and a waiting period is ridiculous.
Now, this bullshit about seniors who have appointed someone else to pay their bills, therefore the government should be allowed to confiscate their guns? Im not for that at all because I think lots of people have an accountant handle their bills for them. It's rather common in the business world. In other words, it's a bogus issue baring some other reason such as dementia, which hopefully, would have to be proven.
Anyway, that's where I stand on some of this knee jerk propositions. Where do you stand?
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: Lone Howl is on PM again! What do you say we take away his vowels?
[ February 22, 2018, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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booger
TOO BIG TO FAIL
Member # 3602
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posted February 22, 2018 12:53 PM
quote:
Full auto from a machine-gun on a tripod is a different animal, they can spray effectively, but a shoulder fired weapon is liable to jump right off the paper (target) after the first 2 or 3 rounds.
I am certainly no expert on the subject of shoulder fired full auto guns, but I have shot a CAR-15 with a full auto sear in the trigger group.
My first bank job was in a town of 200 people, and two of the guys that were on the local volunteer fire department with me were gun guys. One wintry Saturday morning, they picked me up to do some bird hunting, and we ended up at a rather sketchy looking farm yard of a guy that I was told was a recluse you needed to watch out for.
Turns out the guy looked like he should have been homeless, beard, flip flops in the middle of winter, shabby clothes. I was hesitant to go into his house, but I was extremely surprised that the house was old, but extremely neat, and he had several gun safes in his living area.
After the two guys I was with vouched for me, he let me fondle the aforementioned CAR-15. He dld something with the trigger group, then handed me the rifle, a 30 round mag and let me step out on the back porch, told me to press the trigger and hold on!
Well, I was 230 pounds at the time and could bench press 300 pounds, but that gun about jumped right out of my hands! 30 rounds went through that slicker than snot, and I am glad I at least had a good grip on it.
I can't imagine trying to hold on to an M-60 on full rock and roll...that was enough for me!
As a footnote, the guy still lives on his family farm and is retired...he was with one of the alphabet soup agencies, more than likely CIA, and was tasked with helping hunt down the Central American drug lords in the early 80's...
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If we ever forget we are one Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under--Ronald Reagan
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 22, 2018 12:57 PM
The last part of the above message dealing with elderly relieving themselves of the burden of paying bills. Well, sometimes it is forced on us, when we must pay certain bills via credit card, or to cease paper billing in favor of electronic. Yeah right on that one.
Anyway, I got a message this morning about a guy I went to high school with. A friggin' star athlete and nobody to mess with. Wife Terri was/is a total Babe!
Admitted to a home in Colorado because of Alzheimer's. My picture of him is 17 years old, good luck, Don. Damn, why can't we live forever?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 22, 2018 01:13 PM
Yes, booger. The most recent full auto I tried was an M4 and it didn't jump out of my hands, but I did have to control it to keep impacts reasonably close to the target. The distance was 100 yards and if the target was a man, he definitely would have been in trouble.
However, 20+ rounds to take out a guy when one single accurate, aimed round would, more than likely have done the job. As far as I'm concerned, full auto is highly overrated.
Oh! I forgot to mention, but I mentioned it before that this occurred at my local gun club. This was a class3 dealer who was testing a shipment of full auto M4's to, I believe it was the West Covina Police department? Some of you guys have probably heard of it, strictly a suburban bedroom community and if you ever passed through the middle of town on !-10, you could say you've been there. My question is, what's the justification? Why does a white bread suburban community need full auto "machine-guns" for their police department? Put me down as against this thrill.
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: forgot to mention, that M4 was suppressed
[ February 22, 2018, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Paul Melching
Radical Operator Forum "You won't get past the front gate"
Member # 885
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posted February 23, 2018 03:45 AM
I think everybody should be able to own a machine gun without a bullshit tax stamp. the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Think that's how it goes ! With a tyrannical government free men should be able to defend against tyranny. Never thought I'd see the day the media looks more like Pravda !
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Those who value security over liberty soon will have neither !
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Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
Member # 506
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posted February 24, 2018 07:49 AM
In Vietnam, the policy was to use full auto while running for cover. Then the grunts went to semi mode to improve accuracy and conserve ammo. Several decades later the army wanted to improve accuracy over the issued ball ammo. I remember one study was done with a single round shooting three small fletchetes that looked kinda like darts. They decided to go with the triburst system. The solders like it for long range shots. They simply aim for a lower section of the center of mass and let three at a time go to the target.
One day I spent a hour or two reading entire the link below. It really shows the stupidity of our congressmen about such subjects as firearms and ammunition. This article comes from the congressional hearings about the problems the M16 had in the early 60s. Warning: if you read the article you will lose all hope of congress doing do something that will work.
http://bobcat.ws/rifle.shtml
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Never thought the devil would need a teleprompter but I could be wrong.
United State of America: RIP
Born July 4th 1776 died November 6th 2012
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 24, 2018 08:37 AM
Damn! I'm about 20% through that testimony. It's absolutely fascinating reading but I have stuff to before I get back to it.
I'll tell you one thing, it's typical of the government in general to put ignorant people in charge of making decisions, and policies.
Thanks for posting the link AZ. Who know, I might have more to say once I finish?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Paul Melching
Radical Operator Forum "You won't get past the front gate"
Member # 885
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posted February 24, 2018 09:09 AM
A R stands for Armalite rifle not Assault as many libs think. as they were the original mfg.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite_AR-15
[ February 24, 2018, 09:14 AM: Message edited by: Paul Melching ]
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Those who value security over liberty soon will have neither !
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Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
Member # 29
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posted February 24, 2018 10:40 AM
Stoner was a sharp cookie. Looks like he had the problem nailed from the get go.
Mark
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When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 24, 2018 11:54 AM
I still haven't had a chance to get back to it, BUT I WILL.
The thing that struck me about the desire to switch from IMR to spherical, (ball) powder was (I guess) for uniformity? Let's have all of our small arms ammunition use a ball propellant, 30'06 for M1, 308 for the M14, and 5.56mm for the M16.
Anybody that has hand loaded knows that he should use the best performing load, for accuracy and velocity. The ball powder they apparently preferred, frankly, I am not familiar with? But, any entry level reloader knows to try several different with appropriate burning rates and test. What a concept!
If the cyclic rate was too high, using a certain buffer; adjust the load, or try a different powder! This is BASIC, but apparently not for the Bureaucrats? This Colonel in charge of a vast program apparently had no concept of his job? I shake my head. Spread out over way too many years. A blind man could have come closer to perfection using braille.
Now, we could talk about the 1911 and the M92 and the SigSaur, which is (what's the word?) Not compartmentalized or unitized, some reason, a word that escapes me, including that 180 degree about face and staying with 9MM Parabellum. WTF?
I'm getting off message here, but didn't they determine, a friggin' hundred years ago, that as a man stopper; 45 caliber is required? Then they fuck around with 10MM and 40S&W and I hope the decision to stay with 9MM had something to do with a valid reason? Like, Ladies find the larger caliber to be too difficult to control. That brings up another policy we can talk about some other day.
Anyway, the brilliant decisions that are made at the supreme lofty levels of government are insane and petty, as often as they are logical and reasonable.
Good hunting.El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
Member # 506
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posted February 25, 2018 07:40 AM
I believe the reason for dropping the 45 was to standardize with NATO. With that said I'm sure there were political reasons to drop the better man stopper.
I read the above link about 15 years ago so please excuse me if I'm wrong in some areas. Yes, the military doesn't really care about moa accuracy. They put out specs that specify average/mean pressure and standard deviation. Remington was having trouble producing extruded powder that could meet military specs. Olin developed a method of converting 20mm cannon powder into ball powder that had a pressure curve close to what the M16 needed but not close enough. The military had tons of left over cannon powder from WWII and Korea. There were several issues that caused M16s to fail in the field. The first mistake was the army didn't issue the first M16s with cleaning kits. They told the GIs that it wasn't necessary. WTF. They came to this conclusion during the test trials when they had the proper powder and better conditions like a drier lower humidity environment. I cannot remember if the cleaning kit issue is raised in this link.
I read a lot of stuff about Vietnam in my 20s and 30s because it would have been my war. In the draft lottery of 1970, my number was 333. Sometimes bad luck is good luck.
I gotta go but I'll list the other three issues later. Probably tomorrow.
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Never thought the devil would need a teleprompter but I could be wrong.
United State of America: RIP
Born July 4th 1776 died November 6th 2012
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Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
Member # 29
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posted February 25, 2018 10:53 AM
I took it as... Stoner told the military that the rifle was designed around IMR type powder, right from the get go.. Anything else would be suspect and may not function properly in this rifle . After it started failing in country, the military screwed around with several things they thought were the problem. Cleaning..well, yes, no brainer. But they changed a bunch of shit...without even going back to Stoner to get his opinion...and still had problems. He gets hauled before congress to give his opinion, and right outta the gate kind of leans toward the fact that...yes...the rifle is designed for non ball type powder. Or at least "not so dirty" powder. Seems strange that they would not include the designer of the weapon to try and solve the problem?
Current versions are awsome platforms, but I have a couple of friends that have served in various places that you would never want to go to, seen action of the worst kind, and they love AK's...which also have problems btw, but jamming at the wrong time doesnt seem to be one of them. I take that as meaning, our current battle rifles are still a bit suspect.
Mark
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When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
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Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
Member # 506
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posted February 25, 2018 02:38 PM
The real reason why I posted the link was to simply show how stupid our congress can be. Congressmen were ready to act with just a mediocre amount of knowledge. Yes, one of the problems was the ball powder made from 20mm cannon power speeded up the cycle time because the pressure was too high at the gas port. This could cause the action to break parts prematurely.
Another issue with the gun powder was they used potassium bicarbonate for flash suppressant which choked up the gas system. Rifle cleaning could help reduce this issue, but the real fix was to use a cleaner flash suppressant.
Early on for testing purposes, the Army issued M16s to some ARVN units with great success. The guns were brand new and worked well for the ARVN troops; but after being in country for a while the chambers started to rust which caused failures to extract. When this was discovered they started to chrome the chambers.
Some of this information isn't in the link and comes from several sources. My link is a good example of the stupidity of congress when it comes to a complex problem.
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Never thought the devil would need a teleprompter but I could be wrong.
United State of America: RIP
Born July 4th 1776 died November 6th 2012
Posts: 1924 | From: Phoenix Az | Registered: Jan 2005
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Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
Member # 506
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posted February 25, 2018 03:11 PM
So getting back to you question: "What will happen?" We will probably get bump stocks taken away. You probably won't be able to buy a gun until age 21, and maybe a few teachers might start carrying in the classroom. Congress may change the hipaa laws so that anyone taking antipsychotic drups is in the NICS system.
Taking away bump stocks is a non issue to me. I can see raising the age may stop some potential shooters, but Cruz was a very troubled young man. I believe he would have purchased an illegal gun or simply waited until his 21st birthday. I don't have a lot of faith in arming teachers. Will there be ARs available in a safe container with body armor for a teacher or will it just be his/her own handgun? There will be a few that will go through with the training, but it will be very few. I can guarantee you that the liberal teachers who are a majority will ostracize any teacher that starts packing. Getting crazy people into the NICS database may stop some of the crazy rage shooters like Jared Lee Loughner, but it won't stop all of them.
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Never thought the devil would need a teleprompter but I could be wrong.
United State of America: RIP
Born July 4th 1776 died November 6th 2012
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted February 25, 2018 03:59 PM
My concern is that the next step will be to prohibit anyone in a household with an 'at risk' person from possessing firearms.
More restrictions that accomplish nothing and yet again, more restrictions.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
Member # 506
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posted February 26, 2018 10:26 AM
IF that someone has a felony conviction, the whole household has to be disarmed in most states.
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Never thought the devil would need a teleprompter but I could be wrong.
United State of America: RIP
Born July 4th 1776 died November 6th 2012
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