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Author
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Topic: Long Range Pursuit TV Show
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booger
TOO BIG TO FAIL
Member # 3602
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posted September 21, 2017 06:07 AM
I just discovered the last time the wife gave our cable company crap for the cost of our bill, they must have signed us up for a better package that allows us to get The Outdoor Channel and The Sportsmans’ Channel.
Since my back surgery, I have DVR’d a bunch of shows and have almost OD’d on hunting shows. One that I taped was ‘Long Range Pursuit’. I did this more out of curiosity than anything, but it chronicles this guy by the name of Clint West from Colorado, travelling to places to hunt big game. His specific ‘pursuit’ is to take the game animal at ranges from 900 yards to 1,000 yards plus.
I am no one’s moral judge, and when I teach ethics in Hunter Education, I specifically say that our own individual ethics and set of values are unique to each of us. I also say that not everything legal is also ethical.
With that said, I admire folks like DAA, Fred, and Cal that have the knowledge to build a long range shootin’ iron, and actually hit what they are shooting at. I am also not talking about the predator hunter that shoots at a coyote at 300 or even 400 yards….sometimes it is out of necessity. I, unfortunately, am not one of those guys that can do that consistently.
The allure of calling predators, to me, was the idea of seeing how close I could get them and then making the shot. This is why turkey hunting and rattling antlers from my bow stand also gets me going.
I just wanted to see if I was the only guy this bothered? If I am, someone can digitally slap me off my soapbox and I will sit on the sidelines.
Our Kansas Hunter Ed coordinator was at a Montana symposium and the keynote speaker was a guy that had a program on The Outdoor Channel—can’t remember his name off hand. He indicated that he was stepping away from network TV and starting a YouTube channel. He also indicated that Steven Rinella, The Meat Eater, was doing the same thing.
He said that TV was all about the dollars, and that as more dollars were infused, things like ethics fell off the table.
I have long said that a lack of ethics could be a death knell to hunting as we know it, especially now since everything gun related and hunting related seems to be under attack.
Will climb off the soapbox now…What say you all?
[ September 21, 2017, 08:23 AM: Message edited by: booger ]
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If we ever forget we are one Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under--Ronald Reagan
Posts: 911 | From: Bob Dole Country | Registered: Apr 2010
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 21, 2017 06:53 AM
No, I think I feel the same way about all this emphasis on long range; AS PERTAINS TO HUNTING.
I just consider how much an animal the size of a bull elk can move while a bullet is in flight. Even if he's bedded, you can look at a strike in the side of the head as he swats a fly. If you get your rocks off by marksmanship at extreme range, stick to gongs.
Wind currents, thermals, atmospheric aberrations, there are several reasons why you may not hit where you think you are aiming. Even a coyote deserves a little respect. I think I am "fairly" confident at 400 yards, but I must have some motivation to be banging away @500+. Think contest, and even then, walking out there and wandering around wastes time better spent on the next stand.
I want my equipment to do this stuff if I need it, but I don't need the glory. Save that for colony critters.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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earthwalker
Cultural Editor & middleweight arm wrestling champion/Intermountain Region
Member # 4177
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posted September 21, 2017 06:54 AM
You're not wrong in your thinking.
I don't believe in half of these hunting shows and the long range shooting is great at targets but to many kids watch these shows and think they can do the same. We've got to many crippled does in our area from the youth hunters who take pot shots and never follow up.
One reason I'm totally against our youth hunts. Some do take a older hunter but a lot of the kids 16-up don't and they are the ones causing the problems.
Ethics is the name of the game and we need more people with a better set of them.
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another long hot smoky summer coming
Posts: 1105 | From: Intermountain region | Registered: Jul 2012
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted September 21, 2017 07:51 AM
What I'm seeing in all aspects of hunting, be it center-fire rifle, muzzle-loader, archery, or whatever, is that technology is taking the place of woodscraft.
Food plots & feeders, trail cameras that send you emails, tree stands & blinds that are bigger than my first apartment was. 1000 yard rifles, 200 yard muzzle loaders & compounds good out to 100. And then there's crossbows.
Lets not forget all of the scent control clothing & gizmos. Space age stuff when you're messing with the ozones.
Is it even possible to kill an animal wearing green or red buffalo plaid instead of the latest & greatest camo ???
Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus........and I don't think that he's doing us any favors.
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7576 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 21, 2017 09:37 AM
I don't want to offend some of our members that are into hi tech gear. But I'm just not there. I'm also not into such handicaps as bows and arrows and blackpowder shit. I just don't understand the retro aspect of it all? I think the seasons are trickery, getting hunters into the woods and knowing their chances of success have been reduced by a factor of 5 or thereabout....just off the top of my head. Even hunting with handguns. I'm not against it, per se, but this "challenge" thing is kind of a joke. On the one hand you have your 338 Lapua to handle all things in the next time zone and then you have those folks striving with severe handicaps. What for? Seems like certain aspects of hunting have transitioned and I'm not clear on the concept. It used to be the RACK, now....
Good hunting. El Bee
PS and, if that's your game, don't mind me, it's a big tent.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 22, 2017 07:07 AM
BTW. I want to assure all that "He who shall not be named" has been following along here and has provided me with his thinking about all of it. Nothing radical, but he can do it all, I understand?
(just kidding, Tim)
Anyway, I just want to say that this long range pursuit shit is counterproductive. There are too few people that have the skills and the gear to actually get it done. The fact that we have here some of those that actually can speak of it with authority changes nothing. I myself am moderately competent on those shots out yonder but it's always an evaluation of diminishing returns. I have hiked out there and returned empty-handed, once in a while, so I know there is a price to be paid. Overconfidence is not our friend. I do not support any TV shows that encourages hero shots by the average dipshit with a new 308 Police Special.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted September 22, 2017 02:49 PM
I guess it comes down to the old Clint Eastwood quote, "A man should know his limitations".
There are certain things I just won't try. Like base jumping off a cliff, climbing K2, wrestling gators, etc...
I would love to have the ability, skill, and knowledge to shoot coyotes at 600+ yards. I believe I have some rifles that are capable of the task, however I don't think I am.
I know there are people that can and do make those kind of shots. Then again there also are the keyboard comandos, who shoot their $300 rifle into 1/2" groups all day long.
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 23, 2017 07:31 AM
quote:
I know there are people that can and do make those kind of shots. Then again there also are the keyboard comandos, who shoot their $300 rifle into 1/2" groups all day long.
This is new to me! Not that there are folks that can, (and do) make these shots. In fact, we have quite a few right here on HM.
But, there are hotdog hunters that can perform 1/2" miracles with their store bought Howa, and factory ammo, and they can do this all day long? Or, maybe once, and it was only a lucky three round group; which they had laminated for their wallet.
Some of you guys sure look stupid spending more than that on your match barrels, with your carefully culled brass and precision handloads. What suckers!
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
Member # 29
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posted September 23, 2017 07:49 AM
I have done the 1 hole groups with factory everything....at 100 yards.
Beyond that, Im toast.
Mark
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When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
Posts: 2083 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2003
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted September 24, 2017 12:37 PM
quote:
200 yard muzzle loaders
You're behind the times, a while back I tuned into a hunting show that I can't remember specifics, but I think they were elk hunting AZ. or NM., and the guy was shooting black powder and he shot an elk at something over 400 yards. I shit you not.
Just not many hunting shows I can swallow these days. Pretty much nothing more than 30 minute infomercials and I just can't stomach them.
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted September 24, 2017 02:27 PM
400 yards with black powder ???
What I have to wonder is how much time will these video heros spend looking / tracking if the animal that takes a half step while the bullet is on it's way and doesn't drop in it's tracks ???
Is it hunting or just shooting ????
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7576 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Paul Melching
Radical Operator Forum "You won't get past the front gate"
Member # 885
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posted September 25, 2017 06:10 AM
This kid of shooting is great for a steel gong !
Its not hunting as I know it, wonder how much editing goes on ?
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Those who value security over liberty soon will have neither !
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Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
Member # 29
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posted September 25, 2017 12:46 PM
Gunwerks has a high end muzzleloader, and on their show they were shooting 1000 yards + at steel plates with blackpowder. They used a special bullet (cant remember which one) that was super aerodynamic and a Nightforce scope.
Very impressive.
Mark
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When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
Posts: 2083 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2003
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booger
TOO BIG TO FAIL
Member # 3602
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posted September 25, 2017 12:52 PM
Mark,
The gun this guy was using was GunWerks...some kind of special scope. They never mentioned what caliber the gun was.
Not sure if the scope and gun were mated like the Remington model highlighted in American Rifleman.
That is the one where you pull the trigger and and the scope slaves to the target and the gun shoots when the scope tells it to...
I agree with Koko, this is shooting, not hunting.
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If we ever forget we are one Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under--Ronald Reagan
Posts: 911 | From: Bob Dole Country | Registered: Apr 2010
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Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
Member # 29
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posted September 25, 2017 02:10 PM
I dont have a problem with long range rifle hunting, as long as a guy is serious about it and practices his shit. I would venture to say there is just as much wounding and loss at 100 yards as there is at 900. I am familiar enough with long range equipment that I feel this way...Im talking rifles.
Bowhunting...I love to bowhunt. Its a completely different state of mind that not everyone gets, or desires to do, and I dont blame them if it does not turn them on, thats fine. As for me...there is something inside me that is extremely instinctive...and it just appeals to me, and I must do it. Almost visceral.
What does bother me about archery today...is what we are talking about with rifles...the long range mentality. I do cringe when I see people taking shots at game with a compound bow at 100 yards and beyond. They are doing it. Again...a lot of em are uber practiced up and can do it, but yeah, it doesnt sit well with me.
A bit hypocritical I know. Im ok with long range rifles but not bows.
I just feel like archery is supposed to be primitive, and guys back in the day fought to have archery hunting seasons. Its supposed to be close up. Ya gotta sneak and be smart about it. Its a 95% failure rate. Very rewarding when you pull it off. If we are going to be killing that far just move it into rifle season, it aint primitive anymore.
Heck I dont know anymore I guess?
Mark
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When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted September 26, 2017 02:32 AM
Tim, were you referring to Tracking Point technology?
When it comes to shooting anything @ LR, there are two 'intangibles' that no amount of shooter skill can overcome:
1. projectile time of flight
2. Atmospherics (the WIND)
Whether it's an arrow @300fps or a bullet @3000fps, once that projectile is sent on its way, it is at the mercy of the above.
If someone thinks that the latest, greatest, whizbang gadgetry can compensate for those 'intangibles', they'd be mistaken.
As for TV shows, since when were hunting shows NOT infomercials???
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted September 26, 2017 04:39 AM
"............since when were hunting shows NOT infomercials ??"
The American Sportsman w/ Curt Gowdy ???
Really miss that show !!!
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7576 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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booger
TOO BIG TO FAIL
Member # 3602
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posted September 26, 2017 06:04 AM
Fred...I think that is what I was speaking of...sorry I couldn't remember!
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If we ever forget we are one Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under--Ronald Reagan
Posts: 911 | From: Bob Dole Country | Registered: Apr 2010
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 26, 2017 06:16 AM
Yeah, that was a good one!
As far as the various disciplines, and those that seek to improve upon accumulated knowledge, that will always be with us, be it bowling or reusable rockets.
The problem is, we have people that see extreme shooting and think anybody can do it with an afternoon's worth of practice, then sally forth brimming with unfounded confidence. And that's where I blame the damned TV show! I'm for keeping all the radical shit off the airways; does a lot more harm than good. And, who gives a shit? Maybe I'm weird but I do not watch these shows. I get a couple sportsman channels and have yet to click on them, I have zero interest. I haven't bothered to ponder the why, but watching other Nimrods doesn't blow my skirt up.
In fact, I have a number of unopened hunting related CD's that people have sent me. I can't get in the mood, don't know what it is? Especially coyote hunting/no interest! Go figure!
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Locohead
World Famous Smoke Dancer
Member # 15
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posted October 06, 2017 10:11 PM
I dont have anything to contribute really other than to say, 90% of the time I spot big game while hunting, the critters are well within 1000 yard range. If I played that game, I would have to spot game, pack up and hike (in the exact opposite direction) several hundred yards just to prepare for the shot!?!? LOL
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I love my critters and chick!!!! :)
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted October 09, 2017 10:46 AM
LR stuff is quite the rage now; my son-in-laws buds(30ish) are all enamored with the concept, and I'm sure I sound like a dinosaur when talking with them about hunting and shooting etc.
All I hear them talk about is shots of 700 to 900 yards, as if it is a chip shot at our tough little Coues Whitetail deer and elk.
Can I shoot to those ranges?, sure, I competed for over 30 years in all manner of disciplines, pistol, rifle and shotgun, and could hold my own with all three, but truthfully a better handgun shooter than the other two.
I always considered myself a fairly competent "practical" rifle shot ie: short to moderate ranges, from any position, moving or stationary target, and do it in a short time frame. I can shoot way out there if it's just a target and nothing on the line but some cash or trophy, but would never consider it at big game animals.
Like Fred stated, after the bullet leaves the muzzle, your no longer in control of what can/will happen between you and the intended game animal. It can take a step, a puff of wind, or a change of wind direction , a slight error in distance judgement, any of which can cause hopefully a miss, or worse, a wounded or lost animal.
If I can't get within 300 yards or less of an elk or deer, I have no business being out there. At further ranges, it no longer is hunting, but mere shooting.
Posts: 1627 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted October 25, 2017 06:35 PM
Our new rule for setups is that we need to be able to drive to the dead coyote, or we don't hunt there. Getting too damned stoked up to be out there walking unnecessarily, without being paid for it. In fact, the ideal coyote walks between us and the truck so we can pick it up on the way back. LOL Part of the challenge for me is seeing how close I can get him to commit. 300 yards doesn't necessarily mean it was ever called. We're deadly at fast draws. Sunday, had young Matt back from the Air Force. damned if he isn't a Staff Sergeant now. Anyway, I had both my best gunners with me, Kevin and Matt, both to my right. The caller was right in front of me. As soon as I hit the go button, the mangiest, nastiest coyote you ever saw came bounding through the soybeans at the caller. Three bounds and he was on it, turned to my right and bugged out. I hit him midship and put him down. he was right back up and all three of us shot at the same time, all three of us hitting him. Triple tapped. Deader 'n necessary. I'm more impressed by shooting in the heat of the moment at fast moving close-up targets than Hail Mary's to the next zip code. Shooting, moving to the next target, dropping a deuce (of coyotes, LOL), or a triple. Done it. And afterwards, just exhale without so much as a shake. That's what impresses me.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted October 26, 2017 05:49 AM
Sounds like the consensus here is against this long range crap? I have always felt that 400 yards is "my" personal long range, and I limit it to predators, not game animals. What is my limit on big game, I don't really know? Must be something like 300, depending on my gear?
Anyway, as I don't watch hunting oriented programs, I don't really know what they are doing, other than what is talked about here, on Huntmasters. Suffice to say, I take a dim view. A dim view of the practice and the tech gear employed. I have even noticed it lately in the two publications I subscribe; American Hunter and Guns and Ammo. That's just one irritation, I have others, concerning way too much Concealed Carry, and Black Gun bullshit.
On the other hand, I'm not inclined to take a step backwards, I'm all for performance, and modern technology. In fact, I think the emphasis from game departments, has suspicious motives. They attempt to lure hunters in the direction of primitives, always for a price. I like a reasonable chance at success, and some of the offers make me think that they are intentionally protecting the animals. Already, in California, buck forked horn or better is somewhere around 5% of the population, because of ignorant game management. I think some of the "opportunities" are a con game, you better not be too hungry for venison this year. They are one step ahead of the nimrods, in my opinion.
And, no mistake, the Game and Fish departments are infiltrated by bunny huggers, as is/are the Game Commissions. For a long time, Game Wardens are not your fellow sportsmen, they are frequently anti hunter in their orientation. That was the good old days, now they are just like a squad car parked behind a billboard, checking permits and plugs, observing you from the other side of the lake, and your license had better be visible, or they might site you for that? I guess some states are better than others but The People's Republik is mostly hostile to citizens exercising their hunting privileges.
Sorry for the rant.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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