|
Author
|
Topic: Dashcam Video: Philando Castile Shooting
|
|
|
Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
Member # 29
|
posted June 21, 2017 07:29 PM
I've been following that a bit since it happened.
So....I gather I should never tell a cop I'm carrying? Then again...if you do...dont be stupid and start reaching...but I want to say that on the wifes video he (dead guy) tells cop he is getting his wallet out? Mistake...and he kept doing it and got shot.
But...this cop seems super scared and lost it imo.
--------------------
When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
Posts: 2083 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted June 22, 2017 06:07 AM
Well, you know what I'm going to say.
First of all, that bastard shouldn't ever be allowed to own a gun, forever. He has no qualities for a decent police officer. Here's the thing, you know: PROTECT AND SERVE ?
In other words, this is a job that involves service to the public. Period.
This asshole is more worried about his personal safety than dealing with a goddamned faulty taillight!
Think about it! This man is in a vehicle with a female and a child who appears to be maybe 3, maybe 4?
What cop assumes for his life after stopping a family for a brake light?
He doesn't have the mental acumen for routine traffic stops in broad daylight. He is so freaked out by the word, "gun" or "firearm" that he stopped thinking straight and got criminally trigger happy! There he was, five minutes after killing this man, and he's still in his fricken combat stance like the guy is still going to pull out his wallet and shoot him! Who would do that after having 4-7 9mm pumped into his chest?
The whole thing stinks, and getting away with it is even worse! There should definitely be a civil suit and if that cop has a net worth of ten bucks, they should be awarded whatever he has!
He needs his ass kicked, any reasonable person could see that this was not justified. He has awesome powers and abused those powers in the worst way possible. Damn, I wonder why he didn't hose down the wife and kids while he was at it, just to be sure nobody was going to harm this poor baby! Yeah, I know she wasn't a wife, but easily could have been. I see racial discrimination. Black man with a gun, shoot first, ask questions later.
Think about the logic, for a minute. Here we have routine traffic stop on an equipment violation, he had not just robbed a 7-11 or a fucking bank!
Then, he voluntarily tells the cop that he has a gun, and the cop can be seen unholstering his weapon, at that exact moment. If you are intent to shoot a cop with your wife and kids in the car, do you first announce the fact that you have a gun? When the cop yells, "don't pull it out" 15 times, are you still going to pull it out with the cop already pointing his weapon at him from 3 feet away? People just don't do that, they obey commands, at that point, if they had not previously.
The shitty thing is, with double jeopardy, this asshole of a cop is scot free, no possibility of a retrial, except a civil suit, and this needs to happen. Then, take away his weapon, he lost all rights to self protection by his criminal actions, in deed if not by legal definition.
I'm disgusted by the verdict, I think he should spend life in prison, but what do I know that 12 idiot jurors apparently do know? This guy is in a car, surrounded by family and the cop thinks he's about to engage in a fucking shoot out? Use you head, asshole! The spoken word, "gun" doesn't allow you to become a cowboy, pointing a weapon at an innocent citizen without the magic words, "probable cause".
The bastard should rot in hell, as far as I am concerned. That badge actually has some limitations. I'm putting myself in this situation and could very easily wind up the same way because I've been stopped before and may be stopped again. If shit like this can happen, who knows, it could affect my judgement: it's him or me!
Good hunting. El Bee
PS, 49 you can't support his actions or the verdict, can you?
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Paul Melching
Radical Operator Forum "You won't get past the front gate"
Member # 885
|
posted June 22, 2017 06:24 AM
I have a lot of love and respect for law enforcement ,in this case however
I agree with you completely Leonard !
--------------------
Those who value security over liberty soon will have neither !
Posts: 4188 | From: The forest ! north of the dez. | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted June 22, 2017 07:02 AM
Nine times out of ten, you really have to favor Law Enforcement. It's a shitty job, and few become wealthy although, out here at least, with double shifts etc. a cop can easily pull down 150 grand.
But, if police expect the support of the public, they have to earn it, and shooting law abiding citizens is not going to get me to the RAH RAH stage, except in the case of Congressional shootings, like happened recently.
Yes, the job. I have always felt that it takes a certain type, requires a control freak attitude, but some of them are normal nice guys just doing a job.
This cop, Yanez? he obviously cannot handle the stress? And, a cop is faced with a stressful situation, (on patrol, on the beat) virtually every day. A guy like this is going to snap, eventually, and I sure as hell don't want it to be me when he does!
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: what I mean is; although it is very hard to do in this state, I just might be in the same situation, although I'm a law abiding citizen, of course. But, I might be armed. That's not a death warrant, if you ask me?
edit: another point of view:
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/448828/philando-castile-shooti ng-police-must-display-reasonable-fear
edit: one more:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-nra-is-not-the-aclu-of-guns/article/2008563
[ June 22, 2017, 09:01 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
|
posted June 22, 2017 03:34 PM
Short answer Leonard...no, I do not support this officer's actions.
I have taken more than a few guns off people in my time for similar situations. These situations were diffused without an issue. I do feel this officer over reacted.
On the other hand, Castile was told at least three times not to remove the gun. Why didn't he listen? Only he knew why and he isn't talking anymore.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
Member # 29
|
posted June 22, 2017 03:53 PM
Stupid question probly...but are most cops taught to unload a clip into a perp once the shooting starts? This guy was a total spaz so thats what he did..but are no cops taught anything different?
Mark
--------------------
When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
Posts: 2083 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
|
posted June 22, 2017 04:10 PM
No police are not trained that way. Police are normally trained to fire in volleys of three shots.
However, police are told to continue shooting until the threat has ceased.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted June 22, 2017 04:24 PM
49, thanks for the candid response. But, as to your assumption that the dead guy was actually "pulling out" his firearm rather than his wallet, where do you get that from? He was working on two commands; "produce your ID" and "don't pull it out!"
Why do you think he was pulling his gun out when he was told specifically a number of times not to do it?
Of course, there may be reasons for lying on both sides, we all know that. A cop is standing right there yelling at you, you have the family in the car with you, and although the deceased appeared to understand the instructions, why do you think he was determined to show the cop that he had a gun in his pants?
The whole scenario stinks. This cop is a nutcase, reflects badly on the whole category of law enforcement and they shouldn't be supporting him, at all. I don't know that they are? But, they shouldn't. It's not a "brother officer" situation, he's a black mark on the profession. The last thing the L.E. community needed in this case was an acquittal. People are going to remember this one for a long time.
Good hunting. El Bee
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
|
posted June 22, 2017 05:51 PM
Leonard, I'm just going by what I saw in the dashcam video. Perhaps I saw it differently than you?
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted June 23, 2017 06:12 AM
Then I'm confused? I didn't see a gun, or a wallet or anything but the cop standing by the door and pumping multiple rounds into the citizen. Did this happen according to the female's iPhone, or what?
Look, if they have it on film with the perp who has his hand on a firearm....then case closed, righteous shooting! What the hell am I missing?
Good hunting. El Bee
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
|
posted June 23, 2017 12:01 PM
We have the officer on film telling the driver to not pull the gun out several times. We can't see the hand position of the driver because he is still seated in the car.
So basically, we can believe the officer on camera telling the driver not to pull his weapon or not believe it. If we don't believe the officer then he is guilty of murder. If we do believe him, then he is not guilty of murder, though may perhaps be guilty of an over reaction.
It's up to your own personal belief. It appears the jury believed him because he was acquitted.
To my own thinking, there may have been other ways to handle this stop. But I don't like to second guess anyone when I wasn't present. Like I said, I have removed guns from more than a few people without it ending like this situation did.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted June 23, 2017 01:44 PM
I'm still not exactly clear as to what you mean, 49?
What seems to be the case is; the audio captures the cop yelling, don't pull it out. So, because he is screaming don't pull it out, are we assuming that he must be witnessing the deceased pulling out his gun?
In other words, despite no video, we trust on faith, that the officer sees the deceased withdraw his firearm. The deceased and his girlfriend both say that he is not pulling out his gun.
I am not willing to stipulate that the deceased is pulling his gun just because the cop repeats many times: DON'T PULL IT OUT !
Again, where's the friggin' logic? Cop is screaming, don't pull it out! Yet, this man (who has woman and child in the vehicle) is pulling his gun with the intent to kill the cop?
Or, is the policeman so freaked out, that he sees a gun, but only in his mind? Maybe the deceased did not interpret the actions on the part of the cop as life threatening? Perhaps he thought the situation was a lot more controlled and somehow the cop's hysterical attitude did not register, and this is proof that he saw no harm in reaching for his ID?
So, who is making the mistake? The citizen didn't obey commands?
My question is, at what point after arriving at the window, did the officer make his first mistake? Am I correct, that the victim announced without prompting, that he had a firearm and a permit? Then, what he was reaching for could easily have been his concealed carry permit?
You didn't see a gun and nobody else did either. All he said was that he had a gun. Period. What sane man announces that he has a gun, and then pulls it out, with intent to do bodily harm, all the while, as the cop is hysterically yelling at him?
I would have loved to see justice served, but it didn't happen. I'm on the side of the citizen. I can put myself in his shoes. And, it really scares me!
Good hunting. El Bee
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted June 23, 2017 01:53 PM
quote:
So basically, we can believe the officer on camera telling the driver not to pull his weapon or not believe it. If we don't believe the officer then he is guilty of murder. If we do believe him, then he is not guilty of murder, though may perhaps be guilty of an over reaction.
member 49
Also, you probably know a lot more about the law than I do? However, believe it or not believe it; that murder is committed? Wouldn't there be some form of negligent homicide, or manslaughter, but how do you come up with premeditated Murder? And, base it on the video's audio? There is a lot of middle ground between first degree murder and manslaughter, in my book.
Good hunting. El Bee
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
Member # 29
|
posted June 23, 2017 05:18 PM
The wife live streamed it to Facebook. Her perspective is from the drivers seat. So that video is out there somewhere?
--------------------
When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
Posts: 2083 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
|
posted June 23, 2017 06:19 PM
First of all, I am not saying I approve of the officer's actions. I have already stated more than once now that I don't approve, and I would have (and I think could have) handled the situation differently.
I am saying that from the video, and whatever other evidence there was admitted into court, the jury did not find him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of murder, manslaughter, or anything in between.
I will add one more thing, and then will be done with this thread...
Leonard, if you were stopped by the police, and they found out you were carrying a weapon and told you not to reach for it, put your hand on it, fondle it, or whatever. Would you listen to them? I certainly think so.
[ June 23, 2017, 06:20 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted June 24, 2017 06:39 AM
Yes, first of all. It's probably better that we all bail on this because we seem to be in a rut?
49, your question to me has nothing to do with the facts of this case, such as they are. You can be assured that I believe there is a 50/50 chance that any cop that draws down on me is a trigger happy control freak. Therefore, I'm not going to reach for a gun, especially when I've been warned not to.
But what the hell does that have to do with this shooting of an unfortunate citizen?
All we know is from the audio, and the cop never says that he sees a gun, only that he tells the man not to pull it out. He could have had the Hope Diamond in his lap and (apparently) you would believe him just because he said, don't pull out that diamond!
You get points for stating that you don't approve of the officers actions. Well, guess what? Hardly anybody approves of his actions except for 12 people that were the ones that judged him. Even then, we don't know if it was only a SINGLE ARTICHOKE that wasn't convinced of his negligence?
I still don't understand why you ask me what I would do? Reasonably intelligent people will not be fondling a pearl handled pimp gun while staring at a deranged police officer who is screaming at him. It's safe to say that 99% of those surveyed would have their hands so high in the air that they would be raising the roof at least a couple inches higher than usual.
So, that's not a fair question, is it?
Yes, we know that you stated several times, you do not approve of the officers actions.
You also know the guy is guilty, but he got away with it. So, don't go blaming the dead man for the foul actions of this cop who will never work in law enforcement ever again. I see a future in "Security" maybe, but his days in law enforcement are over, and thank God for that!
Case closed.
And, thanks for bringing the issue to our attention! We always like to render judgements on the fatal actions of the law enforcement community. And, you kinda knew what reactions and opinions you would be getting, so don't act surprised that I am deeply disturbed by every fact of the matter. I get it just as much as you get it. But I didn't see a gun because this officers credibility is near zero, and you did. <shrug>
Good hunting. El Bee
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
|
posted June 24, 2017 11:15 AM
St. Louis Sheriffs Dept might hire him. They have hired felons before. After all it is hard to get LEO's with experience. His main problem is he is white, that may disqualify him.
I think you both made your point. He was found not guilty, just like OJ.
--------------------
futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
|
posted June 24, 2017 11:19 AM
St. Louis City first responders make considerably less money than St. Louis County staff. Yesterday they said on the news that county firemen make over 30% more $$$ than City fireman. City fireman without a doubt go on more calls. My Cousin with SLPD makes less than my friend in the county. County got a huge raise again.
--------------------
futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted June 24, 2017 02:15 PM
I'm pretty sure some have a prevailing wage clause. It's like a self generating engine, however you describe it?
In this el Crapo state; fire and police (I think) retire with 95% of their base pay or highest grade, something like that? It's why we are going to be the next broke state after Illinois. Public sector pensions. This is why its bullshit to allow public employees to unionize. Governors buy votes this way.
Good hunting. El Bee
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
|
posted June 25, 2017 03:17 PM
What I was trying to say is I think from watching the video there was some fault to go around on both sides.
Another cop tells me not to reach for or touch my gun and I won't. Not until he finds out what team we are all on. If I, as a fellow law enforcement officer reach for my gun when another cop tells me not to, I stand the chance of getting a dose of the same thing we saw on the video. Right or wrong..
The cop was obviously too "jumpy" for this job and should not be in law enforcement, nor should he have been in the first place.
Yes, we are at an impasse here. No use continuing the discussion. Maybe some day over lunch and a beer it might be a different story.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted June 25, 2017 06:03 PM
No, unnecessary, really. We both have the same attitude as regarding this Shrinking Violet Officer who finally flunked the test in a big way. An unfortunate big way.
And, I think you are smart to obey commands if ever in the same scenario, as I would, to the letter!
Not only that, but I would be repeating and replying to his commands every bit as earnestly and distinctly and at the same level of speech, in order to convey my fervent desire towards full and complete cooperation!
Apparently, for some of us, it all hinges on the words, "don't pull it out"? To me it proves nothing? To me, it doesn't alter my opinion of what transpired, one scintilla, as our favorite black ex president might say?
Therefore, any question that begins with; what would you do, and ends with a, don't pull it out, is a complete non starter. It's not pertinent nor germain to the actual facts.
Other than that, we're cool! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: I just noticed; like a female, I apparently want the last word?
[ June 26, 2017, 09:59 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Paul Melching
Radical Operator Forum "You won't get past the front gate"
Member # 885
|
posted July 01, 2017 04:01 AM
He certainly spent more time analyzing this than did I. A very interesting account and possibly a game changer Thank you for the new perspective 49 . He is a very well spoken and thoughtful person I enjoy his writings , books and articles .
[ July 01, 2017, 04:02 AM: Message edited by: Paul Melching ]
--------------------
Those who value security over liberty soon will have neither !
Posts: 4188 | From: The forest ! north of the dez. | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
|
posted July 01, 2017 06:20 AM
You're welcome Paul. Mas is about as good as it gets in a gun writer / expert.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
