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Author
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Topic: Suspect heads will roll
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 18, 2017 07:08 AM
Some type of policy must have been ignored? Either the getters were placed where they shouldn't, or the kid and his dog were where they shouldn't have been.
Wildlife Services has some 'splainin' to do. The local sheriff meanwhile is demonstrating her ignorance.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/idaho-boy-injured-family-dog-killed-government-cyanide-025850761.html
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted March 18, 2017 06:12 PM
I'm guessing dog and kid were somewhere they were not supposed to be.Time will tell. But if the dog had been run over by a car like thousands of others have been, you'd have never heard a word about it. It would have just been an unfortunate accident. I'm guessing AP wouldn't have run the story. But the dog would be just as dead.
[ March 18, 2017, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: 3 Toes ]
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted March 18, 2017 08:28 PM
So true Cal......
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 19, 2017 06:47 AM
Say Cal. Can you give us a brief run down on how you go about placing getters? Do you make any attempt to conceal where they are or are they right out in the open? Me personally, I've never seen one in place but I have seen the signs. And, the signs are not prominently displayed, where you can't miss them. In other words, seems like they point the signs away from a normal entry, like sideways where you wouldn't casually read it without walking up to see what the sign was all about. Hell, I don't know exactly what I mean, but when I have seen signs, it seemed almost deliberate? Like, why put up a sign and place it where a casual passerby wouldn't be in a position to read what it says? Hard to explain, like "well, the law says I need to put up a sign but I don't need to place it where somebody can actually read it." Anyway, that's the impression I got from a few encounters, they are easily overlooked.
But, the big question is; I thought cyanide was more or less outlawed a long time ago?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted March 19, 2017 06:59 AM
I place signs where they are very easy to find and read. They are legal and the cyanide capsules are bought from the Pocatello supply depot. You have to be licensed but it's not a hard process. Whats funny if you read the story the people are so full of shit its ridiculous. It's not a gas. It's a granular powder. They don't hiss, explode, or make any noise. They aren't a bomb and they don't go off by touching them. There is no way the dog was killed unless it actually pulled the gun, setting off the the trigger and getting the cyanide in his mouth.
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted March 20, 2017 03:07 AM
I'm surprised Leonard hasn't seen one. I've seen a lot of them. Used to see them damn near everywhere it seemed like. Not nearly so many out there anymore.
Signs are always where you can't miss them.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted March 20, 2017 05:41 AM
DAA.......
Leonard, a.k.a. El Bee, being well heeled, has adopted the African Safari style of hunting and it's little wonder that he's never seen a getter.
First to go down the trail are a couple of trackers. Then the guy who carries the shooting tri-pod, the P.H. / Guide and then Leonard. Following is the guy carrying El Bee's sun-shade umbrella, the sound guy and the camera crew and a couple of skinners. (They really ARE a couple.)
Leonard is carefully steered around anything like snakes, sharp sticks, getters or groupie hookers.
It's amazing that he ever even calls anything in but I guess he really is good.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
And a happy belated St. Paddy's day.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7579 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 20, 2017 05:43 AM
Yes, I guess I am also surprised that I haven't actually stumbled across an M44 in my travels. Because, I've seen the signs and I know they are out there. Ely seemed to have a particularly heavy concentration, year after year, as far as just the signs.
I'm conflicted, yes I like to hunt coyotes but I don't like to see them pursued like scorched earth. I like coyotes, but I also like to hunt coyotes, and hate to see one get away. But, that's the contest; me versus them. If some other people or agencies are involved, I pretty much root for the coyote....but I'm not the one suffering any economic hardship so it's easy for me to say. It's like the attitude of the bunny huggers, leave all the animals, (God's creatures) alone, no hunting and just let them live free, etc etc. In other words, unrealistic. Naive, too, since they don't understand game management.
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: yes, ko ko. You've nailed it!
[ March 20, 2017, 05:45 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted March 26, 2017 06:41 PM
Not enough information available to know who was in the right or who was in the wrong.
Most important question to me is, was it placed on public land near a development where you would expect the public to frequent. IF it was set on public land near a development where you would expect someone to walk their dog, legal or not, that lapse in judgement by the one who placed the M-44 threatens the legitimate use of the tool for everyone.
Most ADC professionals are very cognizant of where to place M-44s that it won't cause problems with the public. I personally killed 2 domestic dogs over the years accidentally and one was a very good stock dog. In both cases it was a trespassing neighbor who may or may not have had the right to be there that cut across the pasture no where near any gate signs and by the time they would have read the M-44 sign marking the M-44 site it was too late for the dog. After those incidents, I called every neighbor within 2 miles to make sure they knew they were there.
The use of M-44s is highly regulated with 26 EPA use restrictions placed on them which regulate when, where, and how they can be placed. Being legal doesn't mean being ethical and practicing common sense.
Again, not enough information but if it was on public land and near a development area where you would expect someone to walk a dog, the placement was absent common sense.
~SH~
[ March 26, 2017, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 27, 2017 05:41 AM
Well, they already stated that the device was placed within 500/600 yards of the victim's house. That right there suggests that somebody didn't exercise due care and diligence.
There was a case out here that involved cage trapping of bobcats on federal land, except the people living in the area considered it to be common public land adjacent to a National Park, Joshua Tree. These people's property butted up to BLM and National Park and the cages were placed legally. However, that didn't matter to those that thought all God's creatures should live in peace and harmony. Guess who lost? Somebody that THOUGHT they were within their rights but the OPTICS tripped them up. Me personally, I think the legal, licensed trapper fucked up by not considering that people wander in the desert and are only vaguely aware of boundaries. So, they are walking, in what they regard as their back yard and they see a poor, scared bobcat in a trap, a cage. Indignation ensues. Now, the whole trapping policy is under reevaluation.
Anyway, to me there has to be a compelling reason to place these traps anywhere that domestic animals can possibly wander. Just for openers, 600 yards doesn't seem prudent? Actually, I can see a situation where the kid sees the getter and calls his dog over to help him investigate. The kid could be dead, and it's obvious that highly regulated 26 EPA restrictions didn't work very well; as any dummy can understand via the results.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 28, 2017 05:12 AM
I got this email this morning. Apparently there are kooks that read this site other than our dedicated people. Whoever he is, he has the idea that a dog's life should be weighted over a human. Don't get me wrong, I've had dogs and I have mourned their passing, but human life is on another level altogether.
Well, he can't grasp that. Read it and weep, and excuse the language, please.
quote:
Dear Adminstrator,
I sadly read on your site about the pet dog getting killed by a M44. Here's what I'd do to any no good mother fucker, this includes a hired gun govt trapper that would happen to kill my dog with either a M44, Snare or Trap:
If you killed my dog with a M44, I would grab the mother fucker and shove his face down on a M44 so that the cyanide poisoning would get into his mouth. Make the fucker give a deep throat bj to the device
If you killed my dog with a Snare, I'll put a snare around the mother fuckers neck and pull real hard
If you killed my dog with a trap, I'll drag the mother fucker out in the middle of the desert, stick his fucking foot into a bear trap and leave the mother fucker out there.
Trailer park mother fuckers have no right, regardless if it's legal to be setting indiiscriminate killing devices.
Thanks for your time,
Darrell
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted March 28, 2017 05:34 AM
Him seems to be a manly man what with all that dragging out into the desert & such and yet, five will get you twenty there's a Hillary bumper sticker on his car.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7579 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted March 29, 2017 07:03 AM
Darrel,
Keep your dog on a leash and you shouldn't have to worry about your dog getting caught in a snare, trap, or M-44. Most traps won't kill a dog. I have let domestic dogs loose from my traps many times and they might limp for a half hour then go on their merry way EVEN WHEN THEY ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE THERE.
If you allow your dog to run free and it ends up chasing my cattle on my land, which most roaming dogs do, it will be shot on sight and you can watch for all I care.
So think about that from your high and mighty "I care more than you do" animal worshipping throne.
If you eat meat you are paying someone else to do the killing for you. If you are a vegan, your vegan diet contributes to the destruction of wildlife habitat and the biological desert that is required to grow those vegetables.
Think about that you arrogant ass!
The "trailer park" comment pretty much tells everyone what an elitist SOB you are. But letting your dog lick your face after it licked it's ass tells a different story.
~SH~
[ March 29, 2017, 07:14 AM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 29, 2017 07:39 AM
Hey, that's a pretty good response, Scott.
I can tell that the writer, Darrel has been fed a certain party line propaganda. The "macho" stuff is all fake. I doubt he has actually been in the outdoors, where they don't mow the grass and it's required to pick up after his dog.
Anyway, if he read it once, maybe he will see the response, and want to put a snare around your neck and pull real hard. You should be scared!
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
Member # 29
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posted March 29, 2017 07:54 AM
You know, I have a housecat Im pretty fond of...so.. Im with my buddy Darrell.
Im with you Brah!
Mark
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When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
Posts: 2083 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 29, 2017 11:43 AM
I think it's his other bro, Darrel.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 29, 2017 09:42 PM
The guy is monitoring the site. Anybody want a penpal?
Re: M44 Cyanide bastards
From Darrell Kuni flykuni@mail.comhide details
To nbosin nbosin@aol.com
There are some people I'd let drown before a pet goes under. I know you feel same way, too.f Don't deny, Dont lie you sum bitch
Cock suckers who indiscriminately set death devices like M44's, Snares and Traps need to be stopped. They catch my dog, all bets are off. They better run, hide and yet I will be hot on their trail.
Those Utah and Wyoming govt fucker trappers, what the fuck! spending millions of taxpayer cash to kill a few coyotes so that they can save some sheep for a welfare rancher. Fuck the worthless sheep, they're not worth killing someones pet and then that guy goes hunting the govt trapper.
Govt scum trappers should get an honest job.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted March 30, 2017 03:23 AM
Yeah I'm with Scott if some dog is out chasing our sheep collar or not that dog is getting a bullet wouldn't even hesitate or lose a minutes sleep over it.
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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NVWalt
Does not claim to be overly bright!
Member # 375
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posted March 30, 2017 04:14 AM
I love to read such dribble from the likes of righteous "animal" lovers. And the threats. As for one, they no doubt haven't a clue as to whom they believe they are messing with. We do have many years experiance out here in the brush and to think you can play cat and mouse with one of us is not to bright. Just saying. An idiot like that wouldn't stand a snowballs chance in Hell messing with any of us out in the brush and could very easily "disappear" off the face of the earth . I do believe in SSS. And NO we don't play foolish games while in the brush!
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Support Communism and help destroy the United States of America ! VOTE DEMOCRAT. "In the end, they aren't coming after me. They are coming after you!" D.Trump
Posts: 636 | From: Tellico Plains, TN | Registered: Aug 2004
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted March 30, 2017 05:03 AM
Cyber muscle, gotta love it.
Simple solution Darrel, keep your dog on a leash. Any respectable pet owner would care enough about their pets to do that which is precisely why many places have leash laws.
As far as hounds that are trained to hunt, most are tracked with GPS correction collars which gives the owner the ability to keep track of their dogs and correct problems that might occur.
Of course you don't care about what kills livestock, as long as your dog can run free on public land. Wonder what your dog would do if it caught a rabbit or ran across a newborn fawn. I am sure in your Bambi world it would probably lick the newborn fawn, right?
My recommendation for you is to turn your dog loose in Yellowstone Park for a nice little run and watch him play with the wolves. You will get the lesson you really need to learn. When the wolves get done with your dog, you might recognize part of the collar that should have been attached to the leash you should have been holding. Then you can cry in your beer about how the wolves have no right to interfere with your dogs daily frolic in the woods.
NEWSFLASH: The lion does not lay down with the lamb. The lion kills the lamb. The bambi world portrayed in your PETA propaganda does not exist. Get out of your concrete and asphalt jungle and learn something about life and death.
Animal worshippers ....... sheeesh!
Lone Howl, no problem with your cat. I use enough pan tension that your cat won't set the trap off. Your cat will walk right through a coyote snare or under it. Cats won't pull an M-44.
Sooooo.....I guess I'll just have to leave a few coyotes to take care of your roaming cat. Maybe Darrel can learn something about free roaming pets when a coyote stretches your cat out after it ate a meal of rare songbirds.
~SH~
[ March 30, 2017, 05:06 AM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 30, 2017 06:07 AM
I think it's the Disney Syndrome. Animals are little people in fur coats. People like Scott and Cal deserve to be shot for their cruelty to animals, they probably spend their spare time pulling the wings off of flies? Hunters "might" get a pass as long as they eat what they kill....and if they were starving. Not too sure about that because they can always get their protein at McDonald's, like everybody else.
But, there is a fake reality just like Hello Kitty. Humans are basically cruel, especially to things like kittens and puppies. And, cartoon animals really can talk, I've seen it myself.
The best thing for this type would be to live on a farm or someplace where they see how Nature really works. Darrel loves his dog. How sweet!
You guys be careful or Darrel will come over and kick your ass!
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
Member # 29
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posted March 30, 2017 06:58 AM
Thanks for the info Scott...now I can rest easy, my cat can frolic and play in the wilderness at will with not a care in the world.
Perfection.
Mark
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When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
Posts: 2083 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 30, 2017 08:34 AM
Yes, good to know. That really had me worried!
But, if we must keep our canines on a leash, why not felines? It's fun dragging them around by a leash. Life is not fair!
Not knowing better, I raised my cat as a dog, because he didn't know any better, either. He would hear me pull into the driveway, come out the side door, talking to me all the way. I would open the driver side door and he would hop up onto my chest and greet me. Not just occasionally; most every day that I went to work and came home. He was my buddy. There may never be another quite like him. I'm basically a dog people, but cats can be ok too.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted March 30, 2017 12:14 PM
I could have used Darrel last week. I had two lambs Ive been raising for the last four months, and had to get them to the butcher shop.
I have no stock trailer, and the shop is only 15 minutes away, so I just kill here, then toss in bed of truck and haul to butcher.
These two lambs have been very affectionate, living in my back yard, and readily approached the wife and I to get their heads scratched and rubbed all over....nice lambs.
So last week, I strolled out in the back yard with 10/22 in hand, scratched their big heads, then backed off three feet, lip squeaked, and summarily placed a bullet in their forehead, then slit their throats when they hit the ground.
This is how stuff goes down on the home farm, not fun or exciting, but we enjoy lamb chops.
Darrel might have needed a tissue after the murderous scene I suppose?
[ March 30, 2017, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: Az-Hunter ]
Posts: 1627 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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