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Author
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Topic: Another Ruby Ridge, another Waco?
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted January 30, 2016 10:57 AM
Ruby Ridge and Waco IMO made me loose most trust in or gov't.
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 30, 2016 11:55 AM
Yes, and they had to save the little boy hiding in the closet, down in Florida with machine guns. A miracle nobody was killed in that fiasco. But, same deal, Janet Reno strikes again.
Thank God, nobody was killed on Wall Street! Or, in the Baltimore riots, you know, let them destroy. A few million dollars damage, a few TV sets gone missing but at least nobody got shot.
Reginald Denny just got a bump on the head while the cameras were rolling and law enforcement was standing on the opposite corner, watching him get brained. But, no harm done, right? Then the thug does an end zone dance. He's probably a professor somewhere, these days?
Good hunting. El Bee
But, yes. the hand movement MAY have been a reflex to being shot. I mean, it's a fair question!
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
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posted January 30, 2016 06:38 PM
Won't ever happen. Finnicum was a cowboy, a .45 guy, revolver. That was at the compound. Whether he had a 9 in his pocket is speculation. PS. If I'm ever shot by LE while reaching for a 9mm, please call bullshit.
It's coming, folks!
Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 30, 2016 10:35 PM
Well, they breathlessly mentioned and speculated about a 9mm, for some reason? Maybe to justify the fact that he was already dead?
The odd thing is, at this point, they have not said: "yup, he has a Roscoe 9mm and here it is!" CASE CLOSED !
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted January 31, 2016 01:52 AM
You guys think this stuff is confined to cowboys holed up on Federal preserves?
One of my BIGGEST concerns is being shot by another cop while I am responding to an incident off duty. If you have been following law enforcement for the past 27 years as I have, you will know that friendly fire is a common occurrence in law enforcement, whether it is uniformed shots on plain clothes personnel or uniformed shots on off duty personnel. It happens at least a few times every year.
But you know what? I don't bitch and complain about it. I fully understand that I put myself at risk by responding in plain clothes. Yeah, I have a "police" windbreaker in the trunk of my unmarked car, and will never have a chance to get it when something really bad happens.
So, if I ever get shot by another cop and they say I had a nine millimeter in my pocket, please call BS. Because I carry a .45 with a .380 as a backup.
Oh...one more thing, if another cop mistakes me to be a perp and tells me to put my hands up with a gun pointed at me, I will leave them up until I am cleared.
Stupid games...
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 31, 2016 06:08 AM
That's interesting, 49. That's one of my concerns, as well. Trying to help, during a holdup or somene shooting fish in a barrel, I worry about those nervous trigger fingers, should I haul out my iron.
Therefore the least concern is if some turd be shooting at me, that's gonna get me motivated. The other stuff, muslims in a mall, etc. I just wonder if I might be putting myself in jepardy by displaying a firearm?
It's sure as hell something to think about. And, I have already thought about it, a lot.
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: it's also interesting to consider how my personal protection has evolved, over the years. For many, I carried my Combat Commander, then I went with a S&W Mod. 36 and a Bauer 25ACP , but now I rely on my new S&W Shield 40 and my Seacamp 32ACP. Boolits have also changed. I used to be big on Glazers in 45 and 25, but have drifted to regular service ammunition. The Seacamp people only recommend one factory cartridge, the 60gr. Winchester HP and that's what I use. In 40S&W, I have tried just about everything you can think of and a few more, foreign and domestic. Have not got around to handloads yet, don't even have dies. As soon as I get enough empties to justify, I will. That's one thing about an autoloader, crawling under benches to retreive brass. I visited a range up in the hi desert a few months ago that had a large plastic screen with a trough next to every bench. In my case, it collected about half of the empties. In 45, I usually wait until I have 500/700 empty cases before I reload them. Takes years, considering that it represents about 50% of what I shot. LB
[ January 31, 2016, 06:27 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
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posted February 01, 2016 09:04 AM
I stand corrected. Finnicum WAS known to carry a 9mm in a shoulder rig. I never meant to imply that I feel this was anything but a "good shoot", from what I had seen. IMO, Finnicum was afforded plenty of latitude as far as dropping his hands several times and giving the implication that he was reaching for something. More than I would have given someone who had made the statement that he wouldn't be put in a concrete box, on tape for all the world to see.
This gives a pretty fair play by play, IMO.
Link
Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010
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R.Shaw
Peanut Butter Man, da da da da DAH!
Member # 73
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posted February 01, 2016 01:28 PM
I really don't think it makes any difference whether he had a gun or not.
He exits the vehicle with hands in the air. Then he makes a move to his waist and starts doing a lot of high stepping in the snow expecting a bullet at anytime. Especially because he realizes he is in a crossfire between the man in the timber and the man he almost ran over.
Another move to his waist still does not produce the intended result and he has to make it a third time while squaring off with the man in the timber before finally getting shot.
Even with Alcoa....suicide by cop. He rode that bull many times in his mind and only had one more ride in real life.
Posts: 545 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 01, 2016 01:42 PM
Thanks for the link. I read all of it and a whole bunch of comments then reviewed the video.
Okay, apparently he had a sidearm and apparently he made some comments about arrest, etc. Also, the never able to understand actions of people, knowing they have guns pointed at them, yet they make stupid gestures.
Anyway, the analyst presents a reasonably strong case. My fallback opinion is similar to a couple in the comment section. Why all the bullshit when there were several times they could have put cuffs on any of these guys, face to face?
Why did they have to arrest them, what were they doing, what were the multiple felonies? Trespass while armed? I'm still leaning on the Occupy Wall Street tolerance? because, guns?
I'm just a hardheaded anti authority bastard. It's selective....if you know what I mean?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
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posted February 01, 2016 02:23 PM
Divide and separate. I believe the Feds had built sufficient evidence and were ready for the situation to end. This field trip made that a possibility, except one of the folks wanted to become a martyr.
ETA: Those are good points Leonard. I've heard through the grapevine that explosives may have entered the conversation. True or not, I don't know, probably never will (for sure). The locals wanted them gone, they weren't gaining much support, they should have gone home shortly after arriving....this time.
Pick your battles wisely.
[ February 01, 2016, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: jimanaz ]
Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010
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jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
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posted February 01, 2016 03:54 PM
She says things the video refutes. Was there a mole? I wouldn't be one bit surprised. Someone is bound to figure out "this isn't going like they said it would", "the FBI is here with ALL of their big toys", "this isn't going to end well". Cooperation goes a long way with LE, "help me help you".
Bottom line, unless you want to get shot, don't make furtive gestures when LE is trying to detain you. Believe me, Lavoy KNEW that!
Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010
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jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
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posted February 01, 2016 04:41 PM
quote:
He rode that bull many times in his mind and only had one more ride in real life.
Classic!!
Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 01, 2016 06:56 PM
Rode a bull? I'm not really understanding this classic remark. I must be slow? Can somebody translate, I'm Polish.
edit: Not really, the name is Polish, but I'm 3/4 French and German. no excuse?
Whatever, I don't get it? Sounds profound though?
[ February 01, 2016, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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R.Shaw
Peanut Butter Man, da da da da DAH!
Member # 73
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posted February 02, 2016 05:18 AM
It means he rehearsed this particular event in his head prior to actually carrying-out what he had in mind.
Posts: 545 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 02, 2016 07:15 AM
Got it. Thank you.
edit: by the way, I recognized him from all the media interviews, he was very noticeable and dressed half cowboy, half camo. But, he did not appear to be
THAT RADICAL to me? I mean, you have to be pretty lunatic to commit suicide by cop, and he didn't project that image? Man! That's hardcore!
Good hunting. El Bee
[ February 02, 2016, 07:23 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted February 02, 2016 10:06 AM
So what exactly was the point of their protest ??
That public land be ...........public ??
Or was it to gain access to the Refuge to graze their cattle ??
Wasn't this the same bunch that had some kind of convoluted reasoning justifying them not paying grazing fees a while back ??
I'm confused.
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7581 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 02, 2016 01:23 PM
quote:
So what exactly was the point of their protest ??
Whatever it is or was, I am quite positive the unbiased Media will not give us an honest report and evaluation. Not if your life depended on it, and in some cases, it might? "They" (The Impartial Media) most definitely does pick sides and promotes that side to the exclusion of the other. It's just PRAVDA, Western Edition. I think NAZI Minister of Propaganda, Joseph Gobbels is the Gold Standard for most of our mainstream media.
How else could the Clinton's get away with the stuff they do? Would Obama have been elected unless our Media decided to ignore his obvious shortcomings?
But, they investigate Republicans mercilessly. Was it 125 reporters that traveled to Alaska when Palin was announced as the Vice President nominee, digging through garbage?
How about investigating squeaky clean Mitt Romney? He actually administered an unwanted haircut to a classmate in college. When his father died, George Romney, he donated the entire amount, around 6 Million dollars, to charity. Our Media didn't try too hard getting that juicy tidbit out for the public, in fact, suppressed reporting it because it was favorable to Romney and we can't let that kind of stuff get around.
We have every reason to be suspicious of the Media. They are not our friends, politically, but they bend over backwards to help their friends. Pathetic situation.
End of rant.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted February 02, 2016 02:36 PM
Ok........Thanx !!!
What a mess.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7581 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 03, 2016 06:24 AM
Then, there's this. How true it is, let the reader decide.
Chilling details emerge about Fed Murder of Oregon Rancher…
February 3, 2016
Last week, news broke that LaVoy Finicum had been gunned down by federal agents following an ambush, and while video of the terrifying incident was released, details have been slim. However, that’s since changed, and after his family received his body, they made a chilling discovery.
The investigative blog LozzaFun1 had more information about Finicum’s death, which seemed more like an assassination if you actually watched the video, and according to Barbara Davis, things are exactly as they appeared to be. If you remember, the FBI claims that they found a 9mm pistol in Finicum’s pocket after searching his lifeless body, but there’s eyewitness reports that he and the people with him purposefully left the weapons at the refuge in case they ran into law enforcement.
That same witness also claimed that the reason Finicum fled the initial stop is because he was being shot at by authorities.
“The only reason he drove off was because he was being fired at so he drove off so he didn’t get shot. There’s two rounds in the top of his truck that they were able to photograph. That’s why he drove off and tried to get around there because he was afraid they were going to kill him. And he was right.”
The FBI’s claim is further called into question after seeing what Davis wrote on Facebook about the serial number. Apparently, members of the Pacific Patriots Network were able to run the serial number 54119868, and the weapon was stolen two years ago, so she believes it’s a plant.
Also, when Finicum’s family received the rancher’s body, they discovered that he had been shot nine times by federal authorities. If you watch the video, that seems like entirely too many for the situation, considering that Finicum appeared to have his hands in the air just prior to being mercilessly gunned down. Davis also said that Finicum now has to have a closed casket funeral, thanks to being shot directly in the face.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted February 03, 2016 07:52 AM
Where's the " Hands up don't Shoot" assholes rioting in the streets for this guy.lol
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Dave Allen
Hi, I'm SUPER DAVE, IN CHARGE OF Q STUFF (and Goat Leader) "I'm really not trying to be a dick".
Member # 3102
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posted February 03, 2016 10:23 AM
Been awful quite the last few days.
Posts: 1986 | From: Jordan Valley Oregon | Registered: Aug 2008
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CrossJ
SECOND PLACE: PAUL RYAN Look-a-like contest
Member # 884
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posted February 03, 2016 10:43 AM
quote:
Where's the " Hands up don't Shoot" assholes rioting in the streets for this guy
Had this conversation with others yesterday. With Ferguson and Baltimore we were inundated with 24 hour media coverage as well as throngs of politicians and talking heads stepping up to right an 'injustice'. With Oregon.....maybe a few sound bites, and what we heard was 'federal agents are involved in a "shoot out" with armed protesters'. I saw the footage, and not what I would call a 'shoot out'. There was no political bounty to be had in Oregon. No new social program could be implemented to redistribute wealth, no large blocks of ill informed voters to win over, and no collection of social servants to cut from the herd and burn at the steak. Only two choices for villains....the ranchers or the bloated .Gov . I've got a pretty good idea who will wear the black hat here(no pun intended).
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A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body.
Posts: 1025 | From: on a water tower | Registered: Jul 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 03, 2016 10:51 AM
Well, we haven't heard much from Tom, the last couple days, but he seems to be a law and order type that sees these ranchers as agitators. Apologize if I am misquoting him, but there is another side to this.
I don't know who's right, but like was mentioned above, where's the outrage?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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