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Author Topic: Another Ruby Ridge, another Waco?
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 2 posted January 27, 2016 05:59 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
I don't like the looks of this deal. Government too in a hurry to force compliance.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/01/27/oregon-militia-leader-ammon-bundy-7-others-arrested-after-gunfight-kills-1.html?intcmp=hpbt1

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31333 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Moe
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4494

Icon 1 posted January 27, 2016 08:44 AM      Profile for Moe           Edit/Delete Post 
Typical of the MSM to call it a "shootout" when witnesses say the man had his hands in the air, was unarmed and cooperating. This was a government sponsored execution. Amazing that they killed the spokesperson for the group, isn't it.

Most of what you read is a lie. Burns is a conservative area with some liberals scattered about sucking on the public tit. Most supported the protesters.

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I snatch kisses. And vice versa.

Posts: 593 | From: Oregon | Registered: Nov 2013  |  IP: Logged
UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8

Icon 1 posted January 27, 2016 09:00 AM      Profile for UTcaller   Email UTcaller         Edit/Delete Post 
Crooked bastards......
Posts: 1566 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Dave Allen
Hi, I'm SUPER DAVE, IN CHARGE OF Q STUFF (and Goat Leader) "I'm really not trying to be a dick".
Member # 3102

Icon 1 posted January 27, 2016 09:16 AM      Profile for Dave Allen           Edit/Delete Post 
I'm not saying I'm for or against them.

But, they were quietly gaining momentum. Despite what the media reports, surprise ? I didn't think the feds would let em get to John Day, sure enough they didn't.

Posts: 1986 | From: Jordan Valley Oregon | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged
Dave Allen
Hi, I'm SUPER DAVE, IN CHARGE OF Q STUFF (and Goat Leader) "I'm really not trying to be a dick".
Member # 3102

Icon 1 posted January 27, 2016 10:12 AM      Profile for Dave Allen           Edit/Delete Post 
Hmmm
http://www.infowars.com/eyewitness-oregon-militiaman-murdered-by-cops-he-had-his-hands-in-the-air/

Posts: 1986 | From: Jordan Valley Oregon | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged
Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
Member # 506

Icon 1 posted January 27, 2016 02:01 PM      Profile for Aznative           Edit/Delete Post 
I would love to have the inside information on this standoff. Ranchers wouldn't go and protest on behalf of another rancher just because they felt like it. The news networks report it as Dwight Hammond and his son, Steve Hammond set fire to Federal land. I believe there was a good reason to set it on fire such as to create a fire break. However, the news media never gives us the full story. I'm all ears if anyone has some inside information to this tragedy.

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Never thought the devil would need a teleprompter but I could be wrong.

United State of America: RIP
Born July 4th 1776 died November 6th 2012

Posts: 1922 | From: Phoenix Az | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
Member # 506

Icon 1 posted January 27, 2016 04:50 PM      Profile for Aznative           Edit/Delete Post 
If we keep writing like this, we will all be sent to a re-education center to learn "White Lives Don't Matter"

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Never thought the devil would need a teleprompter but I could be wrong.

United State of America: RIP
Born July 4th 1776 died November 6th 2012

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Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19

Icon 1 posted January 27, 2016 04:53 PM      Profile for Lonny           Edit/Delete Post 
I have a buddy that I talk with occasionally that lives in Hines, which is a stones-throw from Burns. He is about as conservative and gun-totin' as they come.

He wanted them gone (the protesters) mainly due to the way they screwed up daily life in the community. He said the common description of the protesters was a bunch of failed ranchers who wanted to blame somebody for their problems.

Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted January 29, 2016 05:12 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, well in any case, did this occupation amount to a deadly shooting?

I just watched the released video by the FBI that has a chopper view of the white truck being stopped and after 3-5 minutes takes off, but there is another roadblock some distance down the road.

He swerves to the left, plows into deep snow and exits the vehicle. It does look like he has his hands in the air, but (as is common in these situations) he appears to reach inside his jacket.

Boom, that's all it takes! That will teach these scofflaws to obey law enforcement.

I don't fully understand the reasons for these people with nothing better to do, to join in a occupy protest, but they didn't shoot anybody at Wall Street? Of course, here we had legit citizens, similar to any of us on this Board. We may or may not have firearms in our possession and that "fact" always enters into the reactionary thinking of the cops on the ground, a fair percentage of whom have an itchy trigger finger under the best circumstances. Make ANY nervous gesture, and these hi testosterone males are going to shoot your ass; count on it!

I am always thinking that L.E. works for me, I do not thank an officer for a traffic ticket, as some people do, if I might deserve it or not. But, I'm just ornery enough that I can see myself doing things that would be considered uncooperative by the fanboys.

So, some types of people get away with this hands up don't shoot bullshit and others get shot when they reach for a hankie or their spectacles. There is a fear by some element against normal taxpayers where they do not brook any noncompliance. If a guy looks like he has never been in jail, a taxpaying citizen, they naturally assume he might be armed and a fair percentage of cops take no chances, even though there are (in this case) 8 or 10 armed with M4's, and the poor fucker is way outclassed, they still lean on that "reaching" alibi and blow him up. Will this be a Ferguson? Don't be silly, even the locals claim they want the protesters to leave town. Oregon is as blue and liberal as it gets out west, so there's that.

I don't know if I'm disgusted or what, but I would be kidding myself if I thought we would ever get to the truth of the whole situation.

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: http://video.foxnews.com/v/4727157766001/fbi-rele ases-video-of-fatal-shooting-of-oregon-occupier/?intcmp=hplnws#sp=show-clips

[ January 29, 2016, 05:17 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31333 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561

Icon 1 posted January 29, 2016 05:28 AM      Profile for TOM64           Edit/Delete Post 
I have to ask what would happen if I took over any building with a firearm for whatever reason? Would I be granted a couple of weeks to tell my story? Then what would happen if I reached inside my coat when officers with guns trained on me were telling me to get my hands up?

Does anyone really feel like LE or big brother is out to get us? As 49 says, "play stupid games, win stupid prizes..."

These guys are no more protesting injustices than the black lives matter crowd is. They are simply wanting our govt land for themselves. And if I were faced with a guy reaching into his coat while I had my gun on him, I'd shoot him too and so would y'all.

Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19

Icon 1 posted January 29, 2016 07:14 AM      Profile for Lonny           Edit/Delete Post 
I think Lavoy Finicum got exactly what he wanted and planned on doing. He had said he would not spend any time in a "concrete box" was always packing in all the videos. Nothing wrong with carrying a weapon, just that any law enforcement guy is gonna know he is always armed.

He takes off from the first stop, tries to go around the second and almost hit a guy. He jumps out of the vehicle immediately with his hands up, but just about as quick drops his hands and is reaching for something either in his jacket pocket or around his waist. He picked one helluva bad time to answer his cell phone, grab his wallet, or reach for his glasses...

I think Finicum wanted to be a martyr for the group and figured this was the chance to make a stand or else he was going to be arrested and spend some time in a concrete box.

Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted January 29, 2016 10:05 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Your take is suicide by cop, after first fleeing a traffic stop? Seems like the cops had plenty of time to see what he was going to do? I agree, it starts with a stupid game; he's never going to outrun a chopper.

The cop he almost hit had a lot of time to see him coming, so the fact that he was where he was is a little stupid, as well.

And, you think all that posse had read the drama on his facebook page about not being put in a concrete box. And, therefore knew it was going to be a killin', him, or the whole bunch of us with the tactical and the body armor, hiding behind the vehicles.

Geeze, I'd cut the fucker five seconds of slack before mowing him down. Considering, if he was black, he wouldn't have been shot, at all. Okay, I take that back, but there are escalating degrees of stupid before it gets lethal. In my book.

Good hunting. El Bee

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31333 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561

Icon 1 posted January 29, 2016 10:19 AM      Profile for TOM64           Edit/Delete Post 
There was enough stupid to justify killing them once they armed themselves and took over the govt building.

arming yourself has consequences, you better be able to accept them.

Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Dave Allen
Hi, I'm SUPER DAVE, IN CHARGE OF Q STUFF (and Goat Leader) "I'm really not trying to be a dick".
Member # 3102

Icon 1 posted January 29, 2016 11:59 AM      Profile for Dave Allen           Edit/Delete Post 
Rumor has it they were scheduled to be @ this meeting last night in nearby Ontario Ore.
http://www.argusobserver.com/news/we-are-the-militia/article_b7075e2a-c6 b0-11e5-b0d8-6b74bb9b22db.html

[ January 29, 2016, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]

Posts: 1986 | From: Jordan Valley Oregon | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged
Moe
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4494

Icon 1 posted January 29, 2016 01:15 PM      Profile for Moe           Edit/Delete Post 
I find it interesting that the video contains no sound. Word is that Finicum was shot and was clutching the wound making it look like he was reaching for a gun.

The only way we'll see the truth is by viewing a camera shot form one of the vehicles with sound. The entire issue hangs on whether the cop shot as a response to Finicum reaching in his waistband or he was shot before.

A couple of years ago I and a friend were doing some calling over near Burns. The ground had frozen but then started to thaw making the side roads treacherous. We started home and saw a trooper drive right into a snow bank so we strapped him up and pulled him out. I pray that wasn't the guy who pulled the trigger. And from now on when it comes to the Oregon State Police I'm going to eave them where I find them. I've seen them pull some of the most egregious shit imaginal. Mostly anxious to write someone up than help them out of a fix.

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I snatch kisses. And vice versa.

Posts: 593 | From: Oregon | Registered: Nov 2013  |  IP: Logged
4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530

Icon 1 posted January 29, 2016 02:36 PM      Profile for 4949shooter   Email 4949shooter         Edit/Delete Post 
At the 6 minute mark he is can be seen reaching into his coat. The narrator says he had a 9mm on him.

As far as his intentions (suicide by cop or fight) we will never know. One thing I do firmly believe is that if he would have kept his hands in the air he would be alive today.

The video is just one perspective from above. The state troopers on the ground had a better view than we did.

Something to consider..

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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316

Icon 1 posted January 29, 2016 06:18 PM      Profile for DanS           Edit/Delete Post 
From what I saw in the video, I can understand the cops thinking he was reaching for a gun.

Isn't it amazing how fast this video was released. Too bad the "Bad shoots" aren't released this fast.

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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis

Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!

Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Dave Allen
Hi, I'm SUPER DAVE, IN CHARGE OF Q STUFF (and Goat Leader) "I'm really not trying to be a dick".
Member # 3102

Icon 1 posted January 29, 2016 08:58 PM      Profile for Dave Allen           Edit/Delete Post 
I'm pretty neutral on this deal. Still wondering ?

I had to ask myself how much effort it took to "take over" these gov't bldg.'s ?

I wonder if anyone was even there ? Haven't ever set foot in the place. Driven by a few times, never sparked my interest ?

I will tell ya, it's pretty damn remote. Maybe more so than some might imagine. With (local) school and gov't operations being shut down for awhile. You would think it's right next door to Burns. Not.. (edit) BTW Burns-Hines has a population of about 5k. Harney county is about 10k. I know Harney county is larger than several states back east.

The media hype about shit really-really make's a guy wonder. If the media walked away we probably wouldn't be here. Then again the Bundy group apparently used them also.

[ January 29, 2016, 09:28 PM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]

Posts: 1986 | From: Jordan Valley Oregon | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted January 30, 2016 05:24 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Okay, everybody has a different opinion, but reflect for a moment on the original chickenshit vendetta by the Feds. With that in mind, and the methods used by "authorities" when challenged, I personally see no great leap from a simple compliance exercise, to "we gonna teach these scofflaws about authority".

Then, what actual harm was done by the occupation? Remember the restraint on Wall Street when they were shitting on the sidewalk? I'm a little hazy, but was not the plan to leave them be, until they got tired of "occupying"? But, here, we have the Buzzword GUNS ! There's nowhere a cop that does not see a situation that needs enforcement when there is a possibility that they may be armed.

What would be the problem with a plan to leave these guys until they got tired and went home?

Good hunting. El Bee

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31333 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8

Icon 1 posted January 30, 2016 05:56 AM      Profile for UTcaller   Email UTcaller         Edit/Delete Post 
I thought the same thing Leonard. What were they really hurting. I definitely think they pick and choose what to push and what to let go. Occupy Wallstreet is a great example. As is letting the Blacks destroy and loot there Neighborhood destroying and burning Cop cars and such. But a few armed Cowboys occupying a refuge in the middle of no where. They must be stopped and right now. Doesn't make much sense.And its seems like it is always when we have a Democrat in the White House when these things happen.

Good Hunting Chad

Posts: 1566 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted January 30, 2016 06:00 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
EXACTLY !

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31333 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Dave Allen
Hi, I'm SUPER DAVE, IN CHARGE OF Q STUFF (and Goat Leader) "I'm really not trying to be a dick".
Member # 3102

Icon 1 posted January 30, 2016 07:33 AM      Profile for Dave Allen           Edit/Delete Post 
As far as these guys dividing the town-county ect..People not being able to work, kids can't go to school on & on.

It seems to me the gov't is the ones who did that. Who really is the problem here ?

Posts: 1986 | From: Jordan Valley Oregon | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged
Moe
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4494

Icon 1 posted January 30, 2016 08:03 AM      Profile for Moe           Edit/Delete Post 
As I see it the main problem here is that this is happening in Oregon. They don't call it the Left Coast for nothing.

On a daily basis I've heard the residents and media out of Portland and Eugene calling to route these people out of Harney County. We've been lied to as well. There have been reports that militia members have been cruising Burns harassing residents but when it was looked into they found that it was FBI agents disguising themselves as militia members doing the harassing.

When the Obama administration sued the state of Arizona for enforcing federal immigration laws the SCOTUS determined that the states have no right to do that. Yet here in Oregon they utilized the state police and the sheriff's department to enforce federal law. What's wrong with this picture.

The America we grew up in is rapidly disappearing and it distresses me no end.

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I snatch kisses. And vice versa.

Posts: 593 | From: Oregon | Registered: Nov 2013  |  IP: Logged
UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8

Icon 1 posted January 30, 2016 08:13 AM      Profile for UTcaller   Email UTcaller         Edit/Delete Post 
"The America we grew up in is rapidly disappearing and it distresses me no end".

Yep I couldn't agree more.......

Posts: 1566 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316

Icon 1 posted January 30, 2016 10:55 AM      Profile for DanS           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
I find it interesting that the video contains no sound. Word is that Finicum was shot and was clutching the wound making it look like he was reaching for a gun.

The only way we'll see the truth is by viewing a camera shot form one of the vehicles with sound. The entire issue hangs on whether the cop shot as a response to Finicum reaching in his waistband or he was shot before.

Good point! I would like to see another angle with sound. We are told he was reaching for a gun. Was he? Why would he exit the vehicle, move into the least protected area, the wide open with his hands up, and then reach for a gun where he had to know he would be killed?

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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis

Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!

Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged


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