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Author
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Topic: Eyes on Kansas
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted January 29, 2015 05:16 PM
I have become friends with a guy who is quite the hobby photographer. he does the pictures for the Kansas Predator Challenge and I always enjoy perusing his online albums.
http://creationsbychristopher.zenfolio.com/p602256944/h52945a7a#h52945a7a
These are pictures of the Kansas Flint Hills, east of me. Where I live and hunt is the flood basin region nestled between the Smoky Hills to the west and the Flint Hills to the east. I hunt these hills every chance I get because I love the scenery and the spirit of the landscape. And Chris does a great job of capturing that spirit. Seeing as how most of you either have never seen Kansas, or have never seen it away from the Interstate, I thought I would try to share what makes "her" special to those of us who live here.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Dave Allen
Hi, I'm SUPER DAVE, IN CHARGE OF Q STUFF (and Goat Leader) "I'm really not trying to be a dick".
Member # 3102
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posted January 29, 2015 05:41 PM
Impressive. Wow, is all I can say. That is calendar quality, screen saver whatever.
Posts: 1986 | From: Jordan Valley Oregon | Registered: Aug 2008
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted January 29, 2015 08:41 PM
Nice !!!!
I always thought that Kansas was all amber waves of grain and tornado magnets (trailer parks).
Now that the word is out, maybe all of the Californians will go to Kansas instead of coming here to Arizona.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7576 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 30, 2015 08:37 AM
I was going to say I never have been to "Flyover Country" but then remembered St Francis is just barely in Kansas.
Very nice, Lance. Thanks for sharing.
Good hunting El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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booger
TOO BIG TO FAIL
Member # 3602
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posted January 30, 2015 08:56 AM
LB,
Oh man, St. Francis...not the end of the world, but you can sure see it from there!
Our sunsets and sunrises rock!
You need to get about 2 or 3 hours further east...it really is God's Country!
Koko...LB excluded, you can keep the Californians. We have one that bought my old home place. He is one weird critter. Don't care to meet any more of his type!
[ January 30, 2015, 08:57 AM: Message edited by: booger ]
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If we ever forget we are one Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under--Ronald Reagan
Posts: 911 | From: Bob Dole Country | Registered: Apr 2010
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted January 30, 2015 10:18 AM
Kansas has a bad reputation as being flat and boring. And people not from Kansas make fun of us. We're okay with that because it keeps them from ever wanting to come here.
I guess I take a little different approach to this place. From a distance, it's home. I've made it my mission to learn how everything in this place works together to make it home. Even crawling on my hands and knees to enjoy the "world" beneath my feet. Like any place else, there's plenty to look at and to enjoy if you're willing to really look.
St. Francis has some wildness about it with all the ridgelines and deep cedar-choked cuts. Booger's area has some beautiful views, as well, but my hands down favorite part of the state is the Flint Hills around Manhattan to Topeka. But, like many of you, my measuring stick for any place uses coyote potential as its unit of measure. The more coyotes, the more beautiful it is. I would never live anyplace that doesn't have coyotes.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 30, 2015 12:02 PM
You know, I have a friend from school, his entire family moved back to Kansas from SoCal possibly 25 years ago, maybe more?
I attended a large dinner out here with the entire clan 5 or 6 years ago and we talked about the hunting opportunities. I was interested, because Richard and I have made several trips to Utah, in the past but later I heard about the discriminating against nonresidents and soured on going back there for a hunt.
Actually, his dad's name is Francis. Not that it matters?
But, Richard is still here. Talked about Oklahoma and Lake of the Ozark's for many years but (I guess) he's like me, can't seem to pull the trigger? He's a big bass fisherman, and stripers. My "go to" guy when I have a hankering for bass. Me and Vicky, (his wife) never got along, but that's usual with my friends and their wives. On the other hand, ALL my friends liked Nancy better than me, no doubt about it. Not hard to understand, if you knew her.
I need to give him a call...
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted January 30, 2015 12:14 PM
dbl post
[ January 30, 2015, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted January 30, 2015 12:18 PM
When I was loading gear for a deer hunt in SW Colorado with my uncle in Cortez, I called him to talk about what I needed for orange, etc., and he told me to bring my grungiest coveralls, and make sure my orange vest and hat weren't new looking. In fact, he went so far as to suggest that I toss them under a rusty tow chain and maybe get them trashed up with some grease, dirt, toolbox grime, and the like so I looked like a local. Figured that since I would be with him and he was raised there, it wasn't important.
If you want to hunt Kansas, hunt with someone from here and there won't be a problem. We don't have issues with NR hunters, per se, but with what they bring and have brought to our state. Leasing, guiding, "no hunting - leased" signs and the idea of paying a farmer to lease ground he has in CRP that my tax money is already paying for already in order to have access to deer that, by law, or as much mine as they are his. I am not saying this to get into the dead end argument of farmer's rights and how they need to make a living. I understand all that and completely support them doing what they need to do to support their families. I'm just stating that this is the grievance against out of state hunters, along with the fact that a lot of them don't understand that you don't just drive down the road and shoot at deer, coyote, pheasants or other game on privately owned ground that someone else has permission to hunt, then run out and drag them off, and that this is okay until you get caught.
Like I said, if you can get hooked up with a local guy, you'd be eagerly embraced by the local hunting community. NR hunters are like illegal aliens. We aren't against people from outside Kansas hunting here as long as they play by local rules and their being here doesn't shit all over the local guys' hunting.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 30, 2015 02:42 PM
Lance, I have mentioned this before but bears repeating, in leu of what you just said about the stigma attached to outofstaters.
In every case where I have seen blatant disregard for property rights and laws, I swear, every damned one has been local yokels! From where I sit, non resident hunters appear to be, (as a group) professional and courteous.
Maybe not exactly the same, but if you go to some repressive monarchy or repressive government, you are careful, and obey the laws. If not, well, there are people in prison breaking rocks in North Korea for doing not much. Same with all these "folks" in fly over country. We know going in, they pick on out-of-state license plates. Locals can do 75 in a 45, but California tags will get a ticket for doing 49 in a 45. That's just the way it is, and most people I know don't want to get some kind of chickenshit fine. Therefore, your premise is what the conventional wisdom thinks but from my perspective, non resident hunters are careful and seldom make a mistake; they sure as hell don't flaunt local laws.
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: other than that, I believe in blending in, as much as possible.
[ January 30, 2015, 02:45 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted January 30, 2015 04:17 PM
My opinion is based on information I get from "local yokels" and Conservation Officers who are hammered throughout deer season by well-intending non-residents breaking our laws by shooting at deer from the road, then explaining their actions by saying that they were "shooting at a coyote".
In all truth, the problem is generally only partly the NR hunter's fault. More times than not, they're hunting under the auspices of a guide or outfitter who is breaking trespass laws and obstructing the rightful hunting of others hunting near their leases by either literally hunting through ground they have no right to be on, but which adjoins the ground they lease, or by sending their staff through neighboring tracts of ground before dawn each day, or driving by discharging firearms onto neighboring properties with the intent of moving deer from those properties back onto their leases while their clients are in their stands. More or less a modified variant of placing pen raised pheasants and quail out in unfamiliar ground, then escorting a group of "hunters" down the path until they get their limit.
Now, if a guy puts the time in and does things legitimately, I'm all for them. I have a couple different groups from North Carolina that own a quarter-section here and a half-section over there for hunting. All that ground is enrolled in CRP and there's pretty much nothing much to upkeep, except hoping that their deer blinds are still there when they get back here for deer season.
I don't hunt their ground, but I will keep an eye on it for them. Not getting anything in return. Just doing the right thing. They own the ground and they are neighbors, so to say. If I see someone on the ground, I call it in. Same as the people who live down there.
If a NR uses a guide's services and he is found off the ground the guide leases - which happens a LOT - there are consequences. More times than not, the guide told them to cross "that fence" and that "no one will say anything". I agree that most NR hunters are decent folks. Not great hunters, but decent guy who don't want any problems. Unfortunately, there is little opportunity for a DIY hunt in Kansas where 98% of the state is privately owned, unless you know someone or are willing to hunt over-pressured Walk-In Hunting ground. Even been a time or two that we stopped to talk with some of those guys and see how they were doing. Most are genuinely impressed with anyone who is crazy enough to call coyotes and shoot them. Even helped one or two get on some birds when they were struggling.
I guess my point is that I don't have a problem with out of state hunters in Kansas. I have a problem with all that they bring with them, as far as changing how those of us that live here are allowed to hunt while we accommodate them, usually because of people who wish to turn the resource into a for-profit commodity, often being pushed by business types and out of state investors who are here to bleed us and our resources dry to make a buck, and once they do, they move to the next big-deer state, or whatever is all the rage. Same as it is in any state. Kansas just has a reputation of being less warm and fuzzy as most.
[ January 30, 2015, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted January 30, 2015 04:21 PM
LB, I was going to say the same thing. Most of the crap done in MO at least, is by the local Meth tweekers, or other punk, inbred yuk-yuks, running around. kind of like the old saying when your house gets broken into, the ones who robbed you, are probably someone you know.
Yet blame the out of staters, or them damn city boys. Popular chant.
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted January 30, 2015 04:38 PM
I don't know that we'll ever see MO's deer potential become what Kansas's was, at one time, but when it does, and you can't turn on a hunting show on TOC without there being some good ol' Georgia boy talking about how there are wallhanger bucks behind every tree in your state, and you start seeing your state legislature making wildlife management decisions, regardless of and directly contrary to your state's biologist's recommendation because they want to tie your wildlife resource to your state's tourism industry, and you start to see all your local CRP ground - habitat that your tax money paid for - being leased up by out of state guiding companies, and you see your state offer up deer tags that can be bought by you, then auctioned off to the highest bidder on sites like Ebay and watch those tags go for upwards of $3000 a piece, none of which goes back to the resource, but into that guide's banking account, and you get to see all that "public trust" resource be sold to the highest bidder under a system structured to prevent you from hunting ground that you've lived by and, in some cases, on for generations, and watch deer leasing and deer hunting commercialization lead to every form of hunting and trapping being shut down for the "local yokels", then I bet you'll change your tune, Dan. Just predicting here. You might not mind any of that.
[ January 30, 2015, 04:40 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted January 30, 2015 05:02 PM
That sounds like something your elected local politicians did, not some out of state hunter.
God knows we try to vote out our crooks in office, but the big cities like St. Louis and KC have too much influence.
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted January 30, 2015 05:07 PM
Our state does net/trap our turkeys and deer, and sell them to other states. That sucks. I hear that we got rattlesnakes and nuisance blackbears in the trade. Oh-boy!
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted January 31, 2015 09:41 AM
"That sounds like something your elected local politicians did, not some out of state hunter."
And my reply is still, "I don't have a problem with out of state hunters in Kansas. I have a problem with all that they bring with them, as far as changing how those of us that live here are allowed to hunt while we accommodate them, usually because of people who wish to turn the resource into a for-profit commodity (politicians, I agree), often being pushed by business types and out of state investors who are here to bleed us and our resources dry to make a buck, and once they do, they move to the next big-deer state, or whatever is all the rage. Same as it is in any state."
And again, I do not wish to engage in another dead-end debate over NR hunters and leasing, and....... You won't change my mind and, since you want to argue the point, I don't see me changing yours, so why go there? I've lived first hand seeing neighbors and best friends become mortal enemies, all because of what politicos have done to turn deer into a profit leader. The process locked gates and made tens of thousands of acres of ground that was fencerow to fencerow wheat fields into viable habitat only because federal authorities gave the landowner my and your tax dollars to develop and maintain that habitat. The deer-driven leasing phenomenon locked the gates, to everyone. No hunting, no trapping, no fishing. I am fortunate that, in my local area, I had one particularly egregious individual that redefined asshole and pretty much erased any semblance of a line delineating what was acceptable behavior, to the point that threats against others' lives were being made, and people were actually being shot at, thus pretty much ending leasing once and for all. go thirty five miles north of me and you run into "Leased" signs though. In a state where you have BLM, Forestry, or state owned acreage that is accessible to everyone, this isn't as big a problem as it is in a state like mine where 98% is privately owned and where we still recognize and stand firm in the fact that our resources are a public trust and that they belong to all the people, not to the wealthiest or to the state. This is a place where my history as a hunter, my education as a wildlife manager, and my political ideology as a Libertarian come together. Not gonna change my mind.
On an unrelated note, check out these pictures!^^^
[ January 31, 2015, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted January 31, 2015 01:27 PM
I really don't want to argue with you, I just get tired of NR's or city boys getting blamed for shit. I agree with you actually on some topics. It sucks when capitalist want to make money on their properties, instead of letting us locals hunt their lands for free. (OK, I was being a smart ass there)
We have a lot of lease property here too, along with landlocked public ground. Just drive through our Mark Twain national Forest and see how many "No Trespassing" signs are hung on trees and fence post on the perimeter of the forest and state ground. It sucks that we pay farmers not to grow stuff so we can pay more for it at the supermarket too, IMO. All along with farmers in drought areas that use too much water, or can't get enough, yet we pay farmers in areas without that problem not to grow shit.
There is a reason I drive out west to AZ to hunt so often, Missouri may not be as screwed up as Kansas, but it aint paradise either.
Well, Yoli's in McNeal does have pretty good food too.
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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booger
TOO BIG TO FAIL
Member # 3602
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posted February 02, 2015 06:13 AM
I am with Lance on this one…until you live here and experience what is going on, you really can’t speak to the issue. I have no problem with NR hunters either. We are all sportsmen and I will welcome them here in my part of the state.
I gave up bowhunting as most of the ground I used to have access to was being leased up by wealthy individuals for their own use, or to bring in a NR hunter that they ‘guide’. Hell, this was ground that had been hunted by my dad and his dad…I was a local and got pushed out.
Most of the NR hunters behave themselves, however, when you have bad apples, they taint everyone…if you want an example, google ‘Spook’ Spann and see how he screwed the pooch just south of where I live now…all in the name of getting the largest whitetail buck taken on camera.
Kansas wildlife officials busted up an illegal guiding ring in Barber County within the last year or so. The ‘guide’ and his clients took 80+ deer with a total of a quarter mile of inches…(avg. score 160+)…over several years. Basically, they stole the opportunity from ethical hunters to ever have a chance to shoot one of those deer, all in the name of $5,000 per tag.
40-45 years ago, the ‘NR’ hunters we had were from the larger counties in Kansas. They came out in droves to hunt pheasants, (deer hunting was almost non-existent here at that time). Most of them were well behaved, but occasionally, they would hunt on private ground where they did not have permission.
Game wardens were few and far between, and the local guys that took the time to procure permission took the lead on 'enforcement'. The first contact was a warning they were not supposed to be where they were, if the first warning was not heeded, their vehicles mysteriously had a couple of flat tires…usually end of problem.
[ February 02, 2015, 07:36 AM: Message edited by: booger ]
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If we ever forget we are one Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under--Ronald Reagan
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Eddie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4324
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posted February 02, 2015 08:57 AM
Its the same here in Oklahoma, big money came in from either out of state or the big cities and started leasing all the land for hunting. Now if you want to hunt deer and don't own land you either lease land or try to find some public land that's not over run by hunters. Its turning in to a rich mans game to hunt around here, land owners are getting 10 to 15 dollars a acre just for hunting. You can't blame the small land owners, there just trying to make a living its the big guys that I have a problem with. They get most of the government help because they have more land to put in there programs and they keep pushing the little land owners out so they can get more land. At one time I could step out of my house and could hunt for miles in any direction now its all leased. A local guy can't pay that kind of money to hunt anymore, its getting to the point that if you don't own land then you don't hunt. There is still a lot of land owners that call me to help with there coyotes, but I have to wait till deer season is over to hunt them. I have no problem with that just glad to be able to hunt them at all. I hate to see what it will be like in another 50 years, I think if things don't change our hunting will be gone.
Posts: 275 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Feb 2013
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 02, 2015 09:07 AM
I'm wondering why you would have to wait until deer season is over to hunt coyotes? I understand, that's the way it is, but why?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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booger
TOO BIG TO FAIL
Member # 3602
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posted February 02, 2015 09:14 AM
LB,
We used to have that arcane law for a couple of years here in KS...reasoning was that it is legal to hunt coyotes from a vehicle but not deer.
Guys would cruise the creeks and huntable land in pickups to 'hunt' their deer. When they would be checked by the fish cops, they ALWAYS indicated they were hunting coyotes, not deer.
After a couple of years, it went away with no fanfare. I can't speak for Lance, but there is no way I venture out during those 12 days of madness. Now it is legal, but not very smart if you value your health. Too many idiots have zero clue how far a modern high powered rifle will shoot.
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If we ever forget we are one Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under--Ronald Reagan
Posts: 911 | From: Bob Dole Country | Registered: Apr 2010
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Eddie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4324
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posted February 02, 2015 09:32 AM
LB they don't want you on the place while there deer hunters are hunting. After there gone then you can get after them. Had one deer hunter come in one time after season while I was calling. He drove up to the call on a 4wheeler and stop, I got up and step out so he could see me he asked what I was doing. Well after I told him that the land owner had called me to hunt coyotes he said why they don't hurt any thing. I just said you'll have to ask the land owner I picked up the called and moved to another place. With hunters like that, I just as soon wait for deer season to be over then have to deal with them.
Posts: 275 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Feb 2013
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