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Author
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Topic: Fused neck anyone?
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted January 13, 2015 09:30 AM
Any of you guys had your neck fused?
I'm giving it strong consideration. Didn't think I'd be able to afford it, but due to some other stuff, I'll be maxing out my family out of pocket for the year on the insurance any day now. Averaging close to $500 a day out of pocket for 2015 so far. Yay...
Anyway, suddenly find myself in a position to afford this surgery. Just not sure which is worse, the pain and weakness or a fused neck.
What's it like trying to watch side to side on a stand with a fused neck, for instance? If anyone knows?
BTW... Not related to my long time lower back disc issues (which they also want to cut on me for), this is some newer nerve damage stuff in my upper back that's been hurting 24/7 since early Sept. and doc says it's not ever gonna quit hurting till I get cut... But I'm still not sure I want to. Pain is bearable most of the time. Weakness is the worse thing, but, I ain't getting in no ass kicking contests anymore anyway...
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 13, 2015 09:58 AM
Wow, I don't know anything about fusing your neck?
I have arthritis in my neck, prevents complete rotation but not that painful as long as I don't sleep with my head turned etc. but enough.
What I do have is spinal stenosis between the L2 and L5 vertebrate. For this back pain I have been taking morphine for almost four years now. It's a little hard to understand why you are not on this drug, as it is by far the best pain killer available?
It's timed release pill, no injection. Of course, I'm no doctor, but what are you doing for pain right now and why is fusing the only alternative? Actually, I could go under the knife, but every time I hear about results of surgery on any part of the spine, it never seems to end well?
Therefore, I consulted about six months ago and we reached an agreement that as long as I could continue to control the pain with medication, surgery is undesirable for me. One downside, and I know your like your occasional bourbon, I have a one drink limit.
Sounds like the insurance isn't helping too much?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
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posted January 13, 2015 10:41 AM
Dave, almost everyone, no check that, everyone I know with lower back "L" Disc issues have lingering nerve pain, muscle spasms and weakness.
***The difference in long term recovery success tends to favor neck fusion in the "C" Disc (neck)area assuming the cutter knows his business because the neck supports less body mass (assuming there is no power lifting involved post op), and the fact that there is more structural cutting of muscles involved in lower Lumbar "L" surgery***.
***Doc's words***
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mike
Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted January 13, 2015 11:17 AM
Leonard, no pills by choice, so far. Figure it's only a matter of time, but I'm putting it off as far as I possibly can. Once I start down that path, it's forever, from all I've ever seen. No offense, but if I was your age, I wouldn't hesitate to get on them. Not at my age though...
Mike, the fusion is for "C" issues. I have "L" issues too, but they are completely separate. I manage the L stuff "okay" with starving to keep my weight down and exercise. Do have my bad weeks or months with it though. Eventually, that's going to need some real attention, but, I will keep putting that off for as long as I possibly can.
The reason surgery seems to be the only option for the C stuff, is because I have bone spurs between two of the C vertebrae, C2 and C3 I think? Anyway, those bone spurs are pinching the nerve roots, hard enough that the nerve on the left side got stretched so bad it is partially torn. Doc says that normally that nerve grows back about an inch a year but mine isn't doing anything because the bone spurs have it stretched so tight. Says I'm likely to end up with the same thing on the right side too, as it is pinched just as hard there - and I do feel some distinct tightness and pain on the right side some days.
So, anyway... Plan would be to remove a disc just to get access to chisel off the bone spurs and clean out around the nerve passage, then put a dead mans bone in place of the disc, which will effect fusion as it all grows back together. The goal being to get the nerve un-pinched.
Insurance is why cadaver instead of using bone from my hip, which seems the better, but more expensive way.
If I have this done, insurance will be paying 100% of it, as I will have already met my out of pocket max for the year on other family member health issues. That's why I'm considering it.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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booger
TOO BIG TO FAIL
Member # 3602
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posted January 13, 2015 11:50 AM
Dave,
My wife’s uncle had a neck fusion about 15 years ago. Looked uncomfortable as hell after the surgery to watch him in a conversation with people on either side of him. I think he still has issues, but he hasn’t done anything to fix it as he is in his late 70’s.
I am struggling with ‘L’ issues myself. I know I have a bad disc that makes my right leg go to sleep if I stand on hard surfaces or in one place for any length of time. A Cabela’s kick stand turkey vest has allowed me to continue to call coyotes and still be able to walk after 5 or 6 stands in a day.
My goal is to do 400 plus miles on my elliptical machine this year, watch what I eat and lose about 50 pounds…am sure that will help the lower back.
Good luck to you with whatever you do!
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If we ever forget we are one Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under--Ronald Reagan
Posts: 911 | From: Bob Dole Country | Registered: Apr 2010
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Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
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posted January 13, 2015 12:10 PM
I almost hate to relate something as important as this as second hand information, but my BIL had his 4-5, 5-6, fused just a few months ago. His was most likely caused by a bike wreck that happened this past summer.
He was losing serious strength in his left shoulder, so much so that he could see the difference in the mirror. Along with the weakness, this is what caused him to go see the doc. After seeing the Dr., they quickly scheduled surgery to avoid more nerve damage. He got cut on a week later.
He is glad he did it and is pretty much back to normal now, but in his case surgery was really the only option.
[ January 13, 2015, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: Lonny ]
Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
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posted January 13, 2015 12:20 PM
Dave, the most important question "to me" is... {Doc, can and will you fix it right on the first go around (1st surgery) and will you go ahead and repair any other damage you see regardless what the claims adjuster says about limits of policy coverage.}
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mike
Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 13, 2015 12:37 PM
At least with my condition, something you don't hear a lot about is the weakness in the legs, caused by the nerve degeneration which seems similar to what your bone spurs are doing in your neck. I'm guessing that would affect upper body strength.
I just got over the hump on some really pricey medications that put me in tier three and with my insurance, that means I have to pay 73% of the cost...and one month supply is just over $900. Has nothing to do with back problems, BTW.
Therefore, I only bought two weeks supply to get me past Dec 31, (gaming the system) and I just picked up my new supply in which the copay reverted to $45. So, you must have a completely different system or calendar to have satisfied your out of pocket, yet we are well into January?
I have an appt. tomorrow in which we will be talking about pain. Might be time to increase dosage?
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: yeah on what Mike said. God, I know a poor sap that has a whole string of surgeries and after all that, settled on a morphine pump, implanted.
[ January 13, 2015, 12:41 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted January 13, 2015 12:50 PM
Lonny, I'm in a similar situation.
For the last 10 years, I've done 125 pushups (two sets, 65 and 60) and 20 pull ups (one set) every morning. Since Sep. when this set in, I struggle to do 20 pushups and doubt I'll ever be able to do another single pull up, ever. I'm weak as can be on the left side...
Doc says no emergency though. Up to me. If I can live with the pain (I can) and the weakness (I'm not so sure...) then I can go on like this indefinitely.
Just thinking about having to move my whole body to turn my head all the way from side to side though... I can see where coyote hunting might get to be more PITA than it would be worth. Other things, too.
I'm pretty undecided.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted January 13, 2015 01:38 PM
$.02 worth of advice.
(1) Second opinion. Third if necessary.
(2) Research. Learn everything that you can about the condition. You can make better decisions and have better conversations with your Dr. once you're `knowed-up` on it.
Good luck.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7576 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted January 13, 2015 03:12 PM
Dave I'm not sure what my wife had done but I know they removed a disc and used a cadaver bone. Hers healed up nicely and she has no more trouble.
They did say that if she was a smoker, it would take longer to fuse together. She was not and it wasn't too long before she was back to normal. And as far as I know she doesn't have any problems in mobility. I know she's glad she had it done.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted January 13, 2015 03:49 PM
Tom, if you get a chance and it's not any trouble, maybe ask her if she knows which vertebrae she had fused? Pretty sure it's C2 and C3 for me - but not positive.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 13, 2015 05:08 PM
I have heard some scary shit about cadaver donors, like not screened for cancer. If it were me, I'd find somewhere they could chisel a chunk out of my ass.
I'd also give serious thought into the lack of mobility. I'd also take koko's advice and get several opinions. That's exactly what I did on my stenosis problem and you do get different opinions. It would be nice if they all agree, but that's not always how it works out.
If you are gutting it out without pain meds, maybe you don't even need surgery? I got in a rush with my knee replacement right before I retired, thinking I had to do it or Medicare would never approve it. So, I did it but as with bypass surgery, these things have a shelf life and then you do it over; at an advanced age, prolonged recovery etc.
But neck surgery is a whole different world, in my opinion. In my case, I had a very severe whiplash about 38 years ago and that's why I have neck problems that I attribute to arthritis. In my case when they started talking about going in from the front to deal with a chip, I said, I'll think about it. Still thinking.
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: you know, my spell checker causes me more trouble than it's worth, and it's sneaky. Changes a word you know you want to use and you don't see it until it's posted. Always changes "koko" to "kook" when I'm not looking!
[ January 13, 2015, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted January 13, 2015 06:49 PM
She said her cadaver bone came from an old man cause she can't remember shit. She does not remember which one it was but hers were fairly high she thought.
I have a buddy who had one from a black man cause he can dance now...
That's about the only downsides to cadaver bones, they are screened, tested, nuked and sterilized before they use them. Way easier on your body than using your own.
We both have a mild case of the flu right now but she said she'd look later if I needed her to. Doc put us both on tamiflu and we should be better in a couple of days.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
Member # 506
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posted January 13, 2015 07:33 PM
DAA, I feel for you. Koko has already given you some good advice. Not counting my urologists, I saw three specialists before going forward with a radical prostatectomy. I had three surgeries in less than a year. Take those three surgeries out of my medical records and I hadn't had a surgery in 40 years. The last surgery in that series was the radical prostatectomy three years ago and I'm fine.
The first surgery in the trilogy was a gall bladder operation. At that time I failed a PSA test and the doctor wanted to biopsy. I knew a prostatectomy could be in my future so I asked my gall bladder surgeon if he knew of any good urologists to perform a prostate removal. He said he didn't know any but knew how to find one. The short story is you need to be in a city where you have at least one big hospital with a good selection of surgeons that specialize in what you need. Call the main number of the hospital and ask for the operating room. When you are connected to the operating room, ask for an operating room nurse. Once you have an operating room nurse, tell her what you need done and who she would have do it. Don't put her on the spot and ask if doctor XYZ is any good. Just who she thinks is the best. If anyone knows who the best surgeons are it's the OR nurses who know. It worked for me. I came out of an operation just fine with some scary side effects: incontinence and ED. I would not call on a simple operation like a gall bladder; but with something as important as a spinal fusion, I would make that call. Hope this helps.
Good Luck
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Never thought the devil would need a teleprompter but I could be wrong.
United State of America: RIP
Born July 4th 1776 died November 6th 2012
Posts: 1924 | From: Phoenix Az | Registered: Jan 2005
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Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
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posted January 13, 2015 10:22 PM
Dave, the question concerning 'do I have it done or can I tough it out', obviously is a very tough and life changing personal decision. Having a surgeon that you trust is a big plus along with family support (please forgive me if I sound too personal, not my intent). I have read every ones comments concerning you question and fukin A I am impressed with the responses, makes me glad to be around you guys! Personally I've had enough surgeries, fusions, burns, broken bones, nerve blocks, epidurals etc to keep the medical field busy for years to come. Not proud of it but extremely glad I had them done.
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mike
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Paul Melching
Radical Operator Forum "You won't get past the front gate"
Member # 885
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posted January 14, 2015 02:13 AM
There is a place in Phoenix called the laser spine institute that does a lot of minimally invasive spine surgery have heard some good things about them and pain relief without cutting.
unfortunately I have not heard from anyone that has had spine surgery that has bee 100% satisfied with the outcome , but have heard from many that the doctor said what they needed was a time machine and go back and never have the first surgery. be very carful you only get one spine.
use drugs if necessary till you find a solution that suits you and yours. I am currently addicted to oxycodone its okay as I need it for pain the docs will take me off slowly when its no longer necessary. till then I will use it as needed.
I hope you find a suitable solution for your neck.
Thoughts and prayers my friend.
[ January 14, 2015, 02:15 AM: Message edited by: Paul Melching ]
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Those who value security over liberty soon will have neither !
Posts: 4188 | From: The forest ! north of the dez. | Registered: Jul 2006
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted January 14, 2015 09:42 AM
Appreciate the input from everyone! And will think on every bit of it.
Today, I'm leaning towards NOT having surgery. I do have most of a year to make up my mind. Then again, if I'm going to, I'd like it to be pretty soon, so I can recover in time to go backpacking before it gets too hot.
No matter what though, I'd definitely seek a third opinion (have already got two, and they agree).
And while I don't think my insurance will cover the laser outfit in AZ, I'm going to investigate. Not even sure if their procedures apply to my condition, but, will know before making any decision. Talked to a guy local who had a different procedure done there and he gave it high marks.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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earthwalker
Cultural Editor & middleweight arm wrestling champion/Intermountain Region
Member # 4177
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posted January 14, 2015 12:35 PM
like the rest of you I have the L5 sliding forward toward the belly button off of the S1.
So far I can use Tramadol for the pain. Good days and bad. Only fix is fusion. Putting it off until I can no longer control the bowl funtions.
BIL had it done last year and yes it's a blessing for him. But like everyone else could I be the one that it doesn't work for?
Kid I work with had to have his neck fused last summer. One more anything and he'd a been paralized. Also drives a cat on fire-line. He feels great and lucky.
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another long hot smoky summer coming
Posts: 1105 | From: Intermountain region | Registered: Jul 2012
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 14, 2015 01:41 PM
I just got back from my consultations. Discussion ranged all over the map, including epidurals but I came away with a 50% increase in the morphine sulphate dosage and 100% increase in the Norco strength. He said we will talk "neck" next time. But I got a bunch of pain meds for $20 bucks! That's okay, I'm really having problems getting a night's sleep. If I could sleep in an upright position, maybe I'd be better off? But, even on my hard mattress, just being in bed, causes a lot of pain.
That Phoenix outfit does have very good reputation. I laugh at "outfit" Dave will understand.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Bofire
READ MY LIPS!
Member # 221
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posted January 14, 2015 08:06 PM
I got hurt real bad, rear ended by a log truck. Put a big dent in cab with my head, went forward broke, cheek bone, eye socket, nose. was in pain for years. got to a point where I could not shoot, shook all the time numb arms, weak, hurt 24/7. drugs did not help, right hand numb.
Now my neck is fused, C3,4,5,6,7 and T-1 are all fuse together. I CAN SHOOT!!!!!!! I hunt. I can kick your ass!
Surgery was 5 years ago. rotation movement is in C2, I am limited but I can live,
Stay in shape, quit smoking, the better your health the better you heal. Have a positive atitude. God Bless
Carl
If you wanna talk to me say so, I'll call ya.
I am 63 got surgery at like 58.
[ January 14, 2015, 08:08 PM: Message edited by: Bofire ]
Posts: 322 | From: Wild West | Registered: Jul 2003
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Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
Member # 506
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posted January 15, 2015 07:39 AM
It may not apply to DAA's neck problem but I thought I would throw this out there since so many of us have back problems. This information is now 2 1/2 years old. You can either read it or watch the 9 minute video. It is your choice.
This isn't the only biologic solution being investigated at this time. There are several that offer all of us hope.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/a-new-hope-for-back-pain-sufferers/2/
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Never thought the devil would need a teleprompter but I could be wrong.
United State of America: RIP
Born July 4th 1776 died November 6th 2012
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Duckdog
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3842
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posted January 15, 2015 08:25 AM
Leonard,
I had an absolute nightmare experience with the epidural procedure.
I've known a lot of people that have had that same procedure done, and I've only talked with ONE that had the same nightmare.
I don't know what caused it, or more precisely what the DR. did wrong,...but it ranked in the top 3 of the most painful experiences of my life.
And that's saying something...
Basically, that's what this Dr. specialized in, so as I was laying there prone, and prepped,...waiting my turn,...The Dr. would go in a room and then exit after just a couple minutes.
In to the next room...and so on. No fuss no muss, and I sure didn't hear anything out of the ordinary.
When it came to my turn, and when he started in with that needle...Like I said, I don't know what went wrong, or what he hit, but the nurses were laying on top of me trying to hold me down while I was beating on the wall yelling "Mother Effer!!" as loud as I could.
And tears were uncontrollably flowing down my face... I'd say for a good 15 minutes afterward, I uncontrollably bawled like a baby. It was absolutely horrible!
Later, I thought,..."I sure felt sorry for the guy AFTER me!"
The disclaimer I signed read, "You might feel some discomfort for up to 24 hours..."
I couldn't walk, or sit regularly for a full day.
In the follow up appointment, when asked if I experienced any relief, and me telling him absolutely NOT, he told me that sometimes it doesn't take effect until the 2nd or 3rd treatment.
I told him he wasn't going to get a chance to find out.
Since then, I've had other doctors want to try this procedure again, and needless to say...I'm reluctant.
So, obviously kind of a freak deal, but not totally unheard of either.
I friggin HATE the thought of surgeries and these types of procedures. They freak me out! And, I have (rightfully so) NO trust in doctors anymore, as I'm going under the knife again next Friday for a "do over" surgery.
Posts: 205 | From: Ks | Registered: Jun 2011
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Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
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posted January 15, 2015 06:23 PM
Dave, I quizzed my BIL a bit more about his fused C4-5, 5-6, and he said he hasn't noticed any real change in rotation, but said maybe a couple degrees. Yours being higher up, might be much different?
He did have a little trouble trying to shoot prone when we went deer hunting about a month after his surgery. He just couldn't lay looking through the scope for much over 5 minutes while we waited for a buck to move into the open. That's improved since then though.
Like I said previously, for him it was the loss of strength and was getting progressively worse.
Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted January 16, 2015 04:19 AM
Thanks Lonny!
I'd have a helluva time staying on a scope, prone, for five minutes even right now.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
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