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Author Topic: PROTECTING US AGAINST A MAN WITH A COUPLE KNIVES
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 2 posted March 31, 2014 08:55 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
I don't know how this video strikes you, but it angers me to the tips of my toes. Imagine camping in the mountains and being surrounded by Ninja SWAT Teams. You might think you are normal, but maybe the authorities have been told that you are homeless and you have, "made threats". You might think you could 'splain what you are doing, but you'd be wrong. These fucking NAZI's with the itchy trigger fingers have lethal force and the law is on their side. You don't have a chance, Bro.

A nice little touch is allowing the dog to chew on his leg, just to show him who is BOSS. I want to arrest every one of those chickenshit cops!

https://news.vice.com/articles/grisly-video-of-police-shooting-homeless-man-sparks-new-mexico-protests

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31418 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Moe
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4494

Icon 1 posted March 31, 2014 02:11 PM      Profile for Moe           Edit/Delete Post 
It makes my blood boil. I'd like to have a serious discussion with the POS with the dog. He deserves to have his nuts clamped in a vice. As unprofessional as anything I've seen.

Portland police seem to have cleaned up their act a bit lately. When I came here about 13 years ago you were hearing about another police shooting almost on a daily basis. Two morons were escorting a man to the mental ward in the downtown hospital when the guy went ballistic. One of the cops pulled his weapon and killed the guy.

I worked at Metropolitan State Hospital when I was in my early 20's and I know the the hospital has staff trained to deal with cases like that but the dumb ass cop shot and killed him right in the hospital in the mental ward.

I think what brought it to an end was when they shot and killed a young black man for a minor offense.

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I snatch kisses. And vice versa.

Posts: 593 | From: Oregon | Registered: Nov 2013  |  IP: Logged
jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689

Icon 1 posted March 31, 2014 08:17 PM      Profile for jimanaz           Edit/Delete Post 
It sucks. It sucks because the dog and handler got too close. I saw this one a while back and wondered how long it would take to make it here. Although I'm not a cop, I can certainly sympathize with their attitude to go home at the end of their shift and make sure their brothers do too. I don't know if the dog slipped the handler's grip, but it sure appears that he didn't intend to send the dog or else he wouldn't have put himself in such a vulnerable position. From my limited knowledge, since a dog is considered an officer, there is no way a handler would send him in to take on a knife wielder.

In the end, unless you intend to fight to the death, stand down when faced with superior force. Tragic, yes. Predictable too.

I find it odd that no one had anything to say about the link I posted a while back about the PHX detectives who let the bad guy make the first move. Both were shot, and one of them died.

As I've previously said, I personally know several current and former cops. To a man, the ones I know are decent guys and would fit in with this group fine except for the prevalent anti-cop attitude that seems to reside here. I can sure see why 49 and the rest of the cop members here have become scarce. They might as well be pit bulls.

Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted March 31, 2014 09:22 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Can't help it, Jim. You see just one of these things and how can you NOT feel like something else could have been done?

I mean, really. These guys had their vest on and every one of them had more than one weapon. And, the wacko had a two inch knife. These big guys were scared they might not make it home after their shift?

It's not hard to be anti cop when you see shit like this. What about the old fart reaching for his cane and he got blasted? What about the kid answering the door with his video game controller in his hand; shot dead. There are just too many of these things. And, one is too many.

Good hunting. El Bee

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31418 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633

Icon 1 posted April 01, 2014 02:22 AM      Profile for Kokopelli   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
While I normally tend to give the cops the benefit of the doubt 'cause I wasn't there and don't know all of the facts, this one appears to have been handled poorly. If I'm not mistaken, the protocol is to use the flash-bangs and bean-bags BEFORE using deadly force ???

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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.

Posts: 7565 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Paul Melching
Radical Operator Forum "You won't get past the front gate"
Member # 885

Icon 1 posted April 01, 2014 04:40 AM      Profile for Paul Melching           Edit/Delete Post 
Back at the end of trapping season 2012 I had a visit from two officers from the forest service at my property in Ash Fork. Mamma and I were sitting in the trailer when there was a knock at the door. The trailer sits with the front door facing west and it opens out blocking your view of what's behind it as you come to the trailer from the south. I opened the door and the knocker did not stay in view but moved back behind the door so I viewed no one. I reached for my back pocket as I exited the trailer both officers went for their guns immediately. as far as I am concerned they created that situation by stepping out of view behind the door. That was a very tense situation for a moment. Could have gone very badly , and if one of them had shot me I can imagine the news story of a maniac living in the woods heavily armed threatens Woodsy owl and Smokey the bear luckily he was stopped by two brave forest rangers who put their lives in danger daily.

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Those who value security over liberty soon will have neither !

Posts: 4188 | From: The forest ! north of the dez. | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted April 01, 2014 08:44 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
So, what did they want, Paul?

You know, I still have a hard on over the way I was stopped and frisked in northeastern AZ. While minding my own business, but at least he didn't draw down on me.

And, that's another pet peeve. Ever watch a show about game wardens? I don't remember what it's called or what channel?

But, every episode involves POACHERS, bad guys, HUNTERS. Apparently, the woods is full of animal killers? I get pissed off at the whole attitude of the officers and the message conveyed to viewers. How has it got to this?

Good hunting. El Bee

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31418 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633

Icon 1 posted April 01, 2014 09:34 AM      Profile for Kokopelli   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
There are two or three `Wardens` type programs.
All pretty much the same...........the hills are full of nothing but POACHERS!!!!!
Rarely do they show an honest sportsman.

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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.

Posts: 7565 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Moe
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4494

Icon 1 posted April 01, 2014 09:47 AM      Profile for Moe           Edit/Delete Post 
I am not anti police in any way shape or form. LEO's are made up of individuals like the rest of society. There are good and bad. I prefer to think the good far outweigh the bad.

What I was referring to here in Portland was a bad culture within the police department. There were several turnovers in management and things seem to have improved.

I recently met with our county sheriff and found him to be a decent man. While out hunting ducks I've been identified by local libs as an elk poacher and when the deputy sheriffs have come out to investigate they've been sensible and easy to deal with. Our sheriff is one of the ones who've stated they will not enforce laws they deem to be unconstitutional (gun laws). And since Arizona has been barred from enforcing immigration laws many sheriffs here in Oregon have said they would not enforce any federal laws.

The Chief of Police here in our little town died suddenly a few months ago but I knew him personally and liked him. We don't have many officers here but I met them all the day I went to city hall and had our water turned on 3 years ago today.

But unfortunately some police departments take on a bad attitude towards the public and problems occur. If you read the beginning of that article you'll see that the former head LEO was accused of excessive force which is what I saw in the video. There seems to be a bad culture within that department. Not all police departments.

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I snatch kisses. And vice versa.

Posts: 593 | From: Oregon | Registered: Nov 2013  |  IP: Logged
Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107

Icon 1 posted April 01, 2014 12:30 PM      Profile for Prune Picker   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
I wonder which cop slipped the butter knife into the "turds" hand? An old cop once told me what he use to convey to all the cops under his command, "Remember gentlemen you will not be a cop for the rest of your life".
Our local "butter knife" killer cop has some serious paranoia issues that multiply as time passes. Seems the locals ignore him and treat his family like rabid dogs, which is funny (Ha Ha) because he is a cold blooded murderer.
Moe, check out the MountainDale incident near North Plains this past weekend. Seems unnamed witnesses and at least one ex cop thinks the sQwat team(s) burned the house with as many as 8 CS gas shells. Maybe the "turd" got what he deserved, but the home owner lost everything.

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mike

Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted April 01, 2014 12:39 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
I don't care what they say, I'm all for Sheriff Joe and his baloney sandwiches. We need more like him. Say what you will, the guy has balls. Now, if that's what you mean by some good and some, not so much, I agree 100%. We used to have one here, Darryl Gates. That guy took no prisoners, figuratively speaking.

But, what the cop defenders don't seem to understand: Law enforcement has EVERYTHING on their side. Starting with the badge. Then, the law and the officialdom always willing to back the play. It takes a harmed citizen to bring up misbehavior, they/police are more inclined to brush it off.

Some punks stole money from my vehicle, the cops arrested them at another location breaking into another car. They released the kids with MY MONEY, and guess what? They were minors and untouchable. I never got anything, much less satisfaction from the police. I think I annoyed them by complaining?

But look, anybody with a gun or a knife can be shot and then blamed for the whole enchilada. Innocent and "weapon" seems inconsistent. I think it's easy for a situation to get out of hand and I'm going to wind up losing.

Look, it's not me. I have never been arrested in my life, never even came close but I think it's completely possible to get shot and killed as an innocent citizen. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Cops ASK for the action, that's why they signed up, they live for it. Making a collar makes their day. They have no friends outside of other cops....Jimanez being a rare exception. Closeted environment, bunker mentality. I'm sorry, I feel no gratitude for them performing their thankless job. They wouldn't do anything else. Or, get into private investigator work or security, but they will always gravitate toward enforcement and the control. They get off on it.

Damn, I thing Jim's right. 49 seems like a more than decent guy but when there ain't much love, they gravitate back to the comfort of Glock.com.

And, if you read the American Rifleman, the average citizen solves and prevents a hell of a lot more crime than the police do. Like they say, a cop can fill out a very good report of a crime but usually depend on tips to solve anything. When seconds count, the police are minutes away. That's the truth.

Good hunting. El Bee

PS and cops LIE! It's amazing, they do it all the time, and under oath. Yet, they are given the benefit of the doubt nearly all the time. Shit, I guess I do sound anti cop? For that, I apologize.

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31418 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107

Icon 1 posted April 01, 2014 01:18 PM      Profile for Prune Picker   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
Not too long ago (5yrs +or-) an Okla City man was charged with the "Murder of A Police Dog", seems the "turd" was a suspect in an after hours commercial business break in, cops turned the K9 dogicer loose on the "turd" and he responded by killing it. My first reaction to the local news story was and is WTF! A short time later it was reported the K9 dogicer killer pled to a lesser charge. But, a short time later another K9dogicer was shot and killed by brother cops for attacking a 2 legged cop during a call for an after hours break in of another commercial business. OKC police held a full blown funeral complete w/ bag pipes for the mutt, and I still say WTF? Oh I almost forgot both incidents occurred near martin luther king ave in NE OKC.

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mike

Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted April 01, 2014 01:33 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Interesting.

Apparently, Oklahoma Law Enforcement doesn't have a clue as to what is the legal definition of murder? It involves HOMICIDE, the killing of a human being.

And, dogs, not being human, if you kill one, no matter the pedigree, it's not murder. A dog is property. A first year law student could tell you that.

Good hunting. El Bee

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31418 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
MI VHNTR
I'm not shaving 'til Obama's gone!
Member # 3370

Icon 1 posted April 01, 2014 05:13 PM      Profile for MI VHNTR   Email MI VHNTR         Edit/Delete Post 
Leonard said:

quote:
PS and cops LIE! It's amazing, they do it all the time, and under oath. Yet, they are given the benefit of the doubt nearly all the time. Shit, I guess I do sound anti cop? For that, I apologize.
You're damn right they lie all of the time AND while under oath. I've seen it up close and personal. The legal system, including prosecutors and judges, support their lies too.

I don't apologize for being anti cop. They are nothing but liars hiding behind a tin badge and an inflated ego.

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The Second Amendment isn't about Hunting. It's about Freedom.

FJB Let's Go Brandon

Posts: 394 | From: MI | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107

Icon 1 posted April 01, 2014 06:28 PM      Profile for Prune Picker   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
After watching the video that opened the topic, I'm not sure any police department cares about the definition of murder when they are pulling the triggers, god forbid eric holder or janet reno's opinion('s).

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mike

Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted April 01, 2014 07:09 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
All I know is, I have been in court and heard police officers, on the witness stand tell the most outrageous lies, sincerely, with a straight face.

There was a case, must have been at least five years ago and it involved three guys hunting at night, in close proximity to the county line between San Bernardino and Riverside County.

These cops swore they observed the defendants kill a bobcat while in an aircraft at 10,000 feet. They claimed they were legally past the border and weren't stopped for more than an hour later and many miles from the county line. That didn't matter to the judge, he accepted the officers version of events and they were found guilty and fined heavily.

Of course, it defies logic that these guys had a better view of the violation while in an airplane. The border wasn't marked with neon or anything else. Oh yeah, this was a State Hunt which are always conducted on a new moon. It was like 10 P.M. or so, and so dark, the wardens couldn't see a damned thing except when the hunters turned on their lights. and drove off. And there was some question if they could even positively identify the vehicle?

A total travesty, but they got their conviction, based on completely shaky testimony. Shit, the judge didn't know the difference and judges always lean toward professional "expert" testimony.

See, the "turd" has a motive for lying. The cop is just stating facts. Yeah, right!

Good hunting. El Bee

Hey, it wasn't me! I barely knew the hunters other than signing them up for the hunt.

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31418 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Paul Melching
Radical Operator Forum "You won't get past the front gate"
Member # 885

Icon 1 posted April 01, 2014 07:39 PM      Profile for Paul Melching           Edit/Delete Post 
Leonard they just wanted to know if I was cutting any brush to brush in my traps, and to remind me that was a violation if in fact I was. I assured them I was not in violation. Was that even worth looking me up for?

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Those who value security over liberty soon will have neither !

Posts: 4188 | From: The forest ! north of the dez. | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted April 01, 2014 09:09 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Paul, if you said you didn't know the rule and admitted cutting brush, what do you think would be the odds that you would have been cited? I'd say pretty good.

So, how did they get what information they had? How did they know that you were trapping? Did they look up your permit and run your address and location? Drones? Had they disturbed your sets and read your tags?

Man, even out in the woods, they will be there, knocking, then hiding behind the door. Seems obvious they fully expected trouble with a typical "turd".....YOU!

Good hunting. El Bee

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31418 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Paul Melching
Radical Operator Forum "You won't get past the front gate"
Member # 885

Icon 1 posted April 02, 2014 03:17 AM      Profile for Paul Melching           Edit/Delete Post 
They had to go to some lengths as my property has no address. First they would need my permit # then they would have to get my name from the fish cops then contact the county recorder to see if I own the parcel or they stopped on a hunch or talked to a local. I dunno? After the Early Drama they turned out fairly nice guys and I'm sure would have shot me 'accidently' not knowing that I too was a nice guy. Sure gets the adrenaline going when that happens.LOL

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Those who value security over liberty soon will have neither !

Posts: 4188 | From: The forest ! north of the dez. | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged
booger
TOO BIG TO FAIL
Member # 3602

Icon 1 posted April 02, 2014 06:33 AM      Profile for booger   Email booger         Edit/Delete Post 
The poor sap looked like he might have been mentally challenged…I would think no sane person would be trying to hold on to a knife in the face of having a dog AND a cavalry charge of LEO’s coming up the hill like that. They ought to be hung if it can be proven they shot him by accident and then tried to do a cover-up.

I do think the law enforcement community does stick together, and sometimes that even runs uphill to the county attorneys. Here in Kansas, each county has a ‘county attorney’ which ends up being the Chief Law Enforcement officer for each county.

I was visiting with a friend of mine on Sunday, and he got caught up in one of these goofy situations. He had some teenage kids doing the wild thing in a vehicle parked in one of his pastures last year, and he pulled in behind them to ask them what they were doing…well, the boy in the other vehicle panicked, backed up and tried to pin him between the vehicles. My friend jumped out of the way, and pulled a little .380 he had in his pocket and fired up in the air.

The girl in the offending vehicle happened to be a local LEO’s daughter, and the boy the nephew of the local county attorney, and when the spit hit the fan, they charged my friend with Aggravated Assault, as the kids said he shot at them for ‘no reason’…even though they were trespassing. Their word against his…

After $40,000 in legal fees and fines later, he was placed on a 2 year diversion—he thinks he can get his record expunged, but if not, the felony stays on his record.

I have some acquaintances that are LEO’s, and while their job is difficult, I really don’t trust any of them.

[ April 02, 2014, 06:35 AM: Message edited by: booger ]

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If we ever forget we are one Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under--Ronald Reagan

Posts: 911 | From: Bob Dole Country | Registered: Apr 2010  |  IP: Logged
DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316

Icon 1 posted April 02, 2014 09:36 AM      Profile for DanS           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
They ought to be hung if it can be proven they shot him by accident and then tried to do a cover-up.
Accident? How could that have been accidental? If someone is aiming a loaded firearm at someone and it goes bang, that is not an accident. What would you expect a loaded firearm to do, play classical music? <Laffin>

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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis

Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!

Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
booger
TOO BIG TO FAIL
Member # 3602

Icon 1 posted April 02, 2014 09:37 AM      Profile for booger   Email booger         Edit/Delete Post 
Yep, wrong choice of words, Dan...should have said it differently!

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If we ever forget we are one Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under--Ronald Reagan

Posts: 911 | From: Bob Dole Country | Registered: Apr 2010  |  IP: Logged
DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316

Icon 1 posted April 02, 2014 09:39 AM      Profile for DanS           Edit/Delete Post 
Not trying to jump in your stuff, Booger. But I hear the term accident overused too much IMO.

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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis

Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!

Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316

Icon 1 posted April 02, 2014 09:42 AM      Profile for DanS           Edit/Delete Post 
As to your friend, I work with a guy who ran into someone years ago because he was driving too fast and blew through a stop sign. Clearly his fault. When the police arrived and found out his grandfather was a cop in their area, and knew him, they pinned "the accident" on the poor bastard that got hit by my co-worker.

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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis

Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!

Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316

Icon 1 posted April 02, 2014 09:51 AM      Profile for DanS           Edit/Delete Post 
We got pulled over several years back when I was pretty young. The prick with the badge, demanded we admit and turn over the illegal drugs he just knew we had. I can only guess he came up with this because all his years of experience and maybe he was related to Kreskin. After manhandling us, making us lay in the mud on the side of the road, then searching our vehicle without permission, throwing our stuff out into the mud, he finally concluded we didn't have any illegal drugs, so he let us go with a warning!

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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis

Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!

Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged


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