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Author
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Topic: Another Situation For You Guys: TeenBoy Shot by Police
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted April 09, 2010 02:27 PM
During one of our go rounds, my oldest threatened to call Family Services Hotline on my one time. I told him to call 911 when he was finished and get a ambulance on the way, he was gonna need it.
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted April 09, 2010 02:51 PM
Sadly,
A guy who used to shoot with us when I was an archery 3D nut, got arrested. He stopped his 14 year old daughter on her way out of the house at 10:30PM or so on a school night, asked where she thought she was going, she said "out". He said no way or something of that nature, she told him to "Fuck Off". He gave her a slap and she ran crying to her room. A few minutes later the local police came and arrested him.
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted April 09, 2010 03:43 PM
Whatever came of it Dan? Was he convicted of anything?
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted April 09, 2010 04:49 PM
49
Funny thing is he told the LEO's exactly what he did and why he did it. Then asked them what they would have done. I don't remember there exact answers as was told to me.
As to Jim, BTW we called him Crusty, really not a bad fellow, he just never felt the need for a toothbrush or deodorant. Hence his nickname.
I think he got probation or something very light. No jail. Perhaps it even got dropped. I honestly don't remember.
Some of this stuff, amazes me. I never dreamed of raising a hand to my father. He was one of those WWII guys who landed at Normandy, seen too much shit, and he never bluffed. I'll never, never forget that "look" he would give us when we were screwing up. He didn't have to say anything other than our names to get our attention. Once you got that "Look" you stopped all BS, cause you knew you were going to regret it if you didn't. BTW, Did I tell you, Pop never bluffed? ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted April 09, 2010 04:53 PM
Oh yea, Grandpa introduced me to the Razor strop. He used a straight razor and that strop/strap whatever it's called.
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted April 09, 2010 06:35 PM
My father had one of those as he was a barber and used to sharpen razors.
He didn't use it on me though. He just took off his belt and smacked me with that.
My younger brother never got hit. Go figure.
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Locohead
World Famous Smoke Dancer
Member # 15
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posted April 09, 2010 08:45 PM
You guys were lucky. My mom would sit us down, cry, and lay guilt trips!!!! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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I love my critters and chick!!!! :)
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted April 10, 2010 07:19 AM
4949
Another story here, pull up a chair.
Still dealing with teenagers and Police. Someone I know, who's boy was experimenting with illegal chemicals, got pretty whacked out one day. His boy, a high school kid at the time, like Andy's is a large kid. No fat, 6-1, about 170 lbs, and very athletic. Now the boys father is an even larger version, a LEO, with a young daughter and wife in the house with this kid, going nuts for lack of a better term, and he doesn't want any harm happening to any of his loved ones.
Now when he was giving commands to his son, the boy would not listen. I guess it's one of those familiarity breeds contempt things. So he felt the best thing to do at that time, was call in and get a couple officers, unknown to the boy, to handle the situation.
He obviously told the guys to "do what you have too, but try not to hurt my boy" and all that. Long story shortened, when those guys told the kid, basically, this is what's going to happen, like it or not. Cuff him and take him to the hospital to get checked out, he did as they commanded. Guess he realized they weren't going to put up with any BS, unlike his father would have.
Now to speculate, I'm guessing that those guys probably would have been gentler to an extent to this kid, than they would have been to Joe Shit the rag man down the street's kid. But that's not the point. It's the familiarity and contempt thing. I know that when I was a young goofy teen, my mom would let me get away with crap, my school teacher or principal would not have.
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted April 10, 2010 08:02 AM
Hey Dan;
Not trying to be a smart ass, but just how far IS '1.5K miles' anyway???? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 10, 2010 09:13 AM
My guess is he means 1,500 miles, with the "K" acting as a symbol for "thousand", therefore 1.5K miles seems fairly easy to understand? How'd you get in here, did you pass the entrance exam?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted April 10, 2010 11:42 AM
LB is correct.
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted April 10, 2010 01:18 PM
I didn't take the exam.......I snuck in thru a hole in the fence out back.
So where does this 'K' come from?? It's not a Roman Numeral that I know of.
Edit to add; So a 5K Run would be ...............??
[ April 10, 2010, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: Kokopelli ]
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted April 10, 2010 05:23 PM
Dan,
You may be right about the police being a little more gentle in handling a fellow LEO's kid. I wasn't there so I can't say for sure.
Let me think about it some.....well, I have told you my father is a barber. He is mostly retired now but still owns a shop. Now if my father, who doesn't cut my hair anymore, took me to another barber and told him, "this is my kid, do me a favor and take extra good care of his hair," do you think his fellow barber would?
How about Andy's kid? Since Andy knows the sheriff do you think the responding deputies would take extra care of his kid?
I have a friend (non LEO) whose wife and daughter were involved in a car accident. They were injured and had to be transported to the hospital. It just so happened that one of the responding officers knew my friend, and gave him a call from the scene to let him know his wife and daughter were injured, but not seriously, and were en route to such and such hospital. Do you think the officer would have done this for someone he didn't know? Most likely not. Most definately not in every case.
I guess what I am trying to say is it never hurts to know people in helpful positions. If I didn't get to know Leonard from interacting with him on another forum, I would never have found out about Huntmasters site.
Dan I know this is not the answer you wanted to hear, but it is an honest answer.
As for familiarity breeding contempt....I agree 100%.
Edit typo.
[ April 10, 2010, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted April 10, 2010 08:19 PM
4949,
I think that you read into my last post, something that I wasn't trying to say.
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted April 10, 2010 08:23 PM
KOKO,
5Km =
5000 meters = 5 kilometers, but you already knew that.
[ April 10, 2010, 08:30 PM: Message edited by: DanS ]
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted April 10, 2010 11:52 PM
quote:
4949,
I think that you read into my last post, something that I wasn't trying to say.
Okay then my mistake Dan.
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted April 11, 2010 07:45 AM
DanS;
Actually, no. I did not know that. I was serious for once when I said that I wasn't trying to be a smart ass. The whole 'metric' thing is something that I never had exposure to or reason to learn. I dealt with tenth's, being ten thousand's of an inch, inches, yards, miles, a fer piece, & over yonder a ways.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7577 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 11, 2010 09:01 AM
Just go and buy a new battery before you get stranded somewhere out in the boondocks. Ya old fossil.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted April 11, 2010 12:37 PM
Funny thing............I've jump started two people recently & both of their batterys looked a heck of a lot better than mine. I had it checked with my last service & was told that it was fine. Just needed to be cleaned up. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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Brad Norman
Okie Dokie
Member # 234
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posted April 13, 2010 08:32 PM
With the proviso that I have not read this entire thread, I've often wondered every time I read or hear a story about a stand off, why don't the people who are holding the person at bay just leave? How did they hear about the person anyway? Especially when the person is in his own home or in the woods. It seems to me that once left alone the person eventually falls asleep or comes to his senses. It always turns out bad when law enforcement hunkers down behind their squad cars with weapons drawn.
As TA says, "For what it's worth."
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 13, 2010 10:53 PM
Because, Brad. Police have that extra gene. They must do something about the problem, even if it's wrong. The statement has been make several times, in this thread, that they gave the kid every chance, so when you are out of options, you shoot him. They can't leave. He broke into a cabin. He needs to surender, or be carried out.
I'm still of the opinion that they didn't need to kill the kid. If he was deranged, they must have been able to observe it. If they knew it, why was that F&G officer standing out in the open, when there is a whacko kid with a gun on the roof?
Of course, there is this shoot to kill policy, you know? You can't shoot him in the leg so that he falls off the roof and breaks his neck. Better to just shoot him in the head.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted April 14, 2010 02:57 AM
Leonard is correct in that police officers are not trained to shoot to "disable." When an LEO must use deadly force (firearm), he or she is countering deadly force or threat of same (firearm in this case).
Brad, we have the benefit of hindsight here. The officers on the scene were forced to make decisions in real time. I am not saying the incident was handled properly or improperly not having been there myself and having the benefit of the whole story.
I mentioned earlier, the problem with just leaving the kid is we don't know what action he would take upon our departure. What if he decided to wander into a residential neighborhood in his deranged state and start shooting at innocents? Then of course the officers would be found at fault for not taking enough action.
[ April 14, 2010, 03:17 AM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
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posted April 14, 2010 03:08 AM
Dan in response to the video you posted, I have a new computer and do not have the sound workin yet. However some research shows the conduct of the officers is being dealt with accordingly:
(CNN) -- A Prince George's County, Maryland, police officer has been suspended, and prosecutors are investigating an incident -- caught on video -- in which officers wielding nightsticks beat a University of Maryland student, officials said Tuesday.
Authorities also are looking into documents filed by police in the case that appear to contradict the video, Prince George's County police Lt. Andy Ellis said.
The video was shot March 3 after the Maryland men's basketball team defeated Duke. In the video, students can be seen celebrating the win as officers in riot gear and on horseback are nearby. Some students are holding up their cellphones, taking pictures or video of the officers and the celebration.
The video shows a student identified as John "Jack" McKenna skipping down the street and approaching two officers on horseback. After a brief exchange, two officers on foot slam McKenna against a wall and he falls to the ground. A third officer joins the first two, and the three strike McKenna with nightsticks while he is on the ground as other students scatter.
McKenna had a cut on his head that required eight staples to close, said Sharon Weidenfeld, a private investigator working for McKenna's attorney, Chris Griffiths. In addition, he had a concussion, a badly swollen arm and bruises elsewhere on his body. Griffiths' office referred questions to Weidenfeld on Tuesday.
Another man identified as Benjamin Donat was also beaten, although that incident was not shown on the video, Weidenfeld said. On Donat's body, the imprint of the officers' nightsticks could be seen, she said. He also suffered a head injury that caused him some memory loss for a few days, although he will be all right, Weidenfeld said. "He really had his bell rung," she said.
Weidenfeld discovered the video and would say only that it was shot by another University of Maryland student.
Authorities arrested Donat and McKenna on suspicion of assaulting an officer and disorderly conduct. Documents filed by police allege that the two were causing a disturbance and that they struck mounted officers and their horses, causing minor injuries, when authorities intervened.
"Arrested 1 and Arrested 2 were both kicked by the horses and sustained minor injuries," the charging documents said.
The video does not show McKenna striking the mounted officer or horse, and the horses were not nearby while the beating was taking place. The documents tell a "totally fabricated story," Weidenfeld said Tuesday.
Prosecutors dropped charges against Donat on Friday and McKenna on Monday, she said. Griffiths is representing both youths, and a lawsuit is planned against the officers, Weidenfeld said.
"I was very disappointed to see the conduct of my officers on the tape," Prince George's County Police Chief Roberto Hylton said at an afternoon news conference. "I'm very disappointed in what I saw."
He emphasized that he wanted to make sure that the officers, once identified, get a "fair and impartial investigation." Although he came down on the officers seen on the tape, he also said the students' celebration involved setting fires, rocking buses and throwing things at officers.
"There is a two-party fault here: the students, but also you can see I am very disappointed by the actions of my officers," he said.
The department's internal affairs unit is investigating the incident, and will assist Prince George's County prosecutors in their probe, Ellis said.
"The charging documents certainly do not appear to be supported by the video," Ellis said. But he said, "I'm sure it's a stretch to say it's a cover-up," saying it's likely the officer who wrote the documents had a "miscommunication" with officers involved in the incident, who provided information.
Read the charging documents from CNN affiliate WJLA-TV (PDF)
The department's internal affairs unit is investigating and will assist Prince George's County prosecutors in their probe, he said.
Ellis said he did not know whether the officer suspended wrote the charging documents. Because the officers on the video were in full riot gear, they could not be readily identified, but authorities are looking into who was on duty that night and where officers were at the time to determine who was involved.
"We didn't know about this videotape until it came out yesterday morning," he said. "We had no idea. It's kind of caught us by surprise. As evidence comes out, or we learn more information, we'll suspend officers as they become identified."
He added, "Not only is the conduct of the officers on tape excessive -- and clearly it's excessive -- there are other issues here we need to work through to make sure we're more organized" in such situations.
The officers on horseback were from the Maryland-National Capital Park Police. Department spokesman Lt. Stanley Johnson said the mounted officers were there for crowd control purposes. While "there were a lot of activities" going on that night, he said, no department horses or officers were injured and there were no reports of people being kicked by horses.
In a statement Monday, McKenna's family told CNN affiliate WJLA-TV in Washington that "some of these characters ought to go to jail. ... Some ought to merely be booted off the force, and the remainder should be properly trained to discover that force is not always necessary, and brutality is always wrong."
The U.S. Justice Department is aware of the video and is "looking into it," Weidenfeld said Tuesday.
She said she is surprised officers would take such action knowing that so many people were filming the celebration.
Prince George's County police arrested 28 people after the basketball game, WJLA reported. Of those, 23 were students.
The police department emerged from federal oversight about 14 months ago, according to the station. The Justice Department had monitored it after complaints about officers using unnecessary force.
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted April 14, 2010 04:57 AM
"the problem with just leaving the kid is we don't know what action he would take upon our departure."
And my reply/ suggestion earlier was not that the officers vacate the scene. Rather, I suggested that they stand down, give the kid a little breathing room and diffuse an otherwise over the top situation. Instead, you have a bunch of guys who got bored and felt the "do something, even if it's wrong" mentality.
There's a difference between abandoning one's post, and taking a defensive tactical position to let the situation calm down and, hopefully, resolve itslef peacefully.If the boy were to try and leave, you take him down once he's off the roof. Hell, there were five grown men there that couldn't out think this minor?
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
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