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Author
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Topic: Another Situation For You Guys: TeenBoy Shot by Police
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted April 08, 2010 11:46 AM
Cdog and tlb....fair enough, I am sure there are things they could have done better. I have never seen any of these things run perfectly. I would like to think the officers did everything they could to bring the boy in peacefully. CDog brings up an excellent point, in that perhaps the mother was the crux of the problem for this boy. As was ststed, we don't know because we weren't there.
tlb, I am wondering if the ranger exposed himself from cover in order to try and talk the boy in. If so, this was a brave but tactically unsound thing to do.
Maybe more will come out over time.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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Ridge Runner
Being a very careful person, I have always bagged my own groceries
Member # 3477
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posted April 08, 2010 02:34 PM
I feel the officers acted appropriately, how many chances should he get, he had commited felonious acts, he was 14 and a runaway, what else should they do, let him run out of bullets? ask any na'am vet if a 14 yo can kill you?
should there be a precedent set that allows say 18 shots fired before the cops can react to the situation? what if the homeowner would have came in while he was there? what if it would have been anyone besides the police? To much liability there for the cops to walk off.
another thing where did this ADHD come from, never heard of it when I was a kid, ya acted up ya got your ass beat and learned respect. there is no respect unless there is first fear of consequences.
I've watched kids grow up being diagnosed as ADHD, mostly its caused by parents who are too busy or too lazy to raise kids up to be held accountable, so the schools or other "authourities" reccomend a visit to the dr, the kids are allowed to be unruly to a point, once they cross the line they're put on ritalin or something simular and spend they're adolescent life in a drug induced state. its rediculous!
RR
[ April 08, 2010, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: Ridge Runner ]
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Born To Hunt, Forced To Work
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted April 08, 2010 04:19 PM
Ridge Runner,
In the case of my boy, it was caused by a bleed in the frontal lobe of his brain resulting from a late hit in a football game, not unlike that Tebo (sp?) kid took playing for Florida earlier this season. That part of the brain is where your personaility, your executive thought processes, your mood, and your ability to stay on task are controlled. Maybe all these retired pro football players and Mohammad Ali are just faking it and all they need to do to get their heads straight is have their asses kicked. Kicking his ass wouldn't really accomplish much for him, and the young man in question in this incident may very well have had a similar history.
Newflash: The boy wasn't in the 'Nam. The officers did not have a concern for being shot by other armed individuals. All of their attention was on one 14 y/o male. As much as I respect our Vietnam veterans, this is no where near the same and it's ludicrous that you would make the comparison. Maybe we should take your remark to heart and start gunning down people assembling in the street like in the earlier debate. Ludicrous, but a closer comparison than what you brought to the table.
BTW, there are a litany of other medical conditions that we hadn't discovered yet in the late '60's and early '70's. Hell, most of what we now know is cancer used to be written off as people just dying of being old. Do we just abandon treating these conditions because Ridge Runner doesn't understand the cause and effects of the conditions? Might be a good way to invoke those death panels we keep hearing about. They'll just appoint people like you that think mental illness is a cry for attention and the result of poor parenting and you can stamp "REJECTED" across every app that crosses the table.
[ April 08, 2010, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 08, 2010 04:34 PM
I'm normally a hard ass, except when police brutality, or overzealous use of force is suspected. Did Rodney King deserve to get his ass kicked. Yes, but he survived. In this case, the plan got way out of hand, and as I said in my first comments, what the hell was that game warden doing, exposing himself to a whacked out kid with a gun? Necessitating offing him in self defense.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31468 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Ridge Runner
Being a very careful person, I have always bagged my own groceries
Member # 3477
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posted April 08, 2010 05:03 PM
quote:
Ridge Runner,
In the case of my boy, it was caused by a bleed in the frontal lobe of his brain resulting from a late hit in a football game, not unlike that Tebo (sp?) kid took playing for Florida earlier this season. That part of the brain is where your personaility, your executive thought processes, your mood, and your ability to stay on task are controlled. Maybe all these retired pro football players and Mohammad Ali are just faking it and all they need to do to get their heads straight is have their asses kicked. Kicking his ass wouldn't really accomplish much for him, and the young man in question in this incident may very well have had a similar history.
First, I don't know you or your son, so no comment was made that direction, I've read alot of your posts, enough to know your pretty straight up and I believe what you say, don't always agree with it but I believe it.
Now from my experiences, I can say that I stick to my previous statement. I've saw it when I knew the kids and the parents, watched them let the kids trash someones house and not even raise an eyebrow, but if they annoyed the parents they got the hell beat outta them. I've not saw it once but dozens of times. I believe what I believe because of what I've saw, why else do the same parents have 2-3 kids and each and every one is ADHD?
quote:
Newflash: The boy wasn't in the 'Nam. The officers did not have a concern for being shot by other armed individuals. All of their attention was on one 14 y/o male. As much as I respect our Vietnam veterans, this is no where near the same and it's ludicrous that you would make the comparison. Maybe we should take your remark to heart and start gunning down people assembling in the street like in the earlier debate. Ludicrous, but a closer comparison than what you brought to the table.
The kid had 3 pistols according to one report, a pistol and a rifle according to the other. he was a danger to the officers, he threatened them by firing, this also would be enough evidence to consider him a threat to innocent people in the area, he fell well within the required parameters for the use of deadly force.
I understand your point of view, but did the cops spend enough time around the boy to know his personality? what he would do in a given situation? If you walked in your house and the kid was in there and started shooting, how many shots would you give him?
quote:
BTW, there are a litany of other medical conditions that we hadn't discovered yet in the late '60's and early '70's. Hell, most of what we now know is cancer used to be written off as people just dying of being old. Do we just abandon treating these conditions because Ridge Runner doesn't understand the cause and effects of the conditions? Might be a good way to invoke those death panels we keep hearing about. They'll just appoint people like you that think mental illness is a cry for attention and the result of poor parenting and you can stamp "REJECTED" across every app that crosses the table.
they knew about cancer in the 20's, they knew about mental illness in the 30's, but this ADHD just popped up with the baby boomers grandkids, I'm not talking about people who have had brain trauma, I'm talking about the kids who weren't shown any behavioral boundries, I see it every day, I live around it. I've saw the change dicapline can make in ADHD kids.
RR
[ April 08, 2010, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: Ridge Runner ]
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Born To Hunt, Forced To Work
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted April 08, 2010 06:46 PM
Break into my house and steal my guns and see if you get talked to or killed.
I have no idea what's going on in anyone else's mind but when they make a decision like this kid did, he paid the price. The cops gave him every oppurtunity, even his mom tried. If he's gonna shoot at mom, he's gonna shoot someone, it's a matter of time.
Call it suicide by cop or whatever but I say they did all they could.
[ April 08, 2010, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: TOM64 ]
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 08, 2010 07:12 PM
Okay, case closed.
But, as it always does, there will be leaks and details not included in the newspaper report. And, there could be stuff they did report that may not have happened?
Yeah, he had it coming. That conclusion protects a lot of reputations, individuals and agencies alike.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted April 08, 2010 07:33 PM
Running with the info given, the cops had a duty to find the runaway and appease his mom. They had a duty to check into the breakins/tresspassing whatever. They had a minor who had stolen guns. They had a minor who not only pulled a gun on them, he shot at them.
Given Barney's "eat pavement" attitude on the last legal carry guy and everyones general concensus that he was pushing his luck, how can anyone not see self defense if someone is actually shooting at you? Would it be different if he was a mixed up 18 YO?
Personaly I don't care what the medical conditions or situations are, I took my lessons from the Highlander, "there can be only one" and I'm gonna make every effort to make sure that one, is me.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted April 08, 2010 07:37 PM
Thank you Tom. Coming from you and Andy that means a lot. 'Nuff said. By the way, my buddy in the counter terrorism unit is also Tom. Edit: This Barney is gonna continue to make belligerents eat pavement as necessary for safety purposes. That's not a popular attitude here but too bad I say.
Cdog my 12 year old son took a nasty illegal hit to the head in a lacrosse game tonight. He was down for the better part of a minute. Of course I was yelling at him to get up. He came out of the game for a bit and then went back in.
It wasn't my intention to cause an argument here between any parties. I was merely getting some opinions and shedding some insight as to how and why police officers react to certain situations. Regardless of the course of events that took place concerning this shooting, it is my belief that when the Texas Rangers complete their investigation this shooting will be ruled legally justifiable. Throwing rounds in the direction of, and aiming at police officers (or anyone else for that matter) does not come without a consequence. The law does not give consideration to alcohol use, drug use, mental state, or mental state combined with lack of medication. Firing on a fellow human being will cause you to end up in jail, or in a cemetary.
I feel sorrow for the boy and his family. Perhaps the police could have done a better job, or maybe they did the best they could under the cirumstances. Hindsight is always 20/20.
Edit typo.
[ April 08, 2010, 07:50 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted April 08, 2010 08:00 PM
Thinking about this and it brought up another story.
I was 15 and a 14 YO "tuff guy" who was known to have issues, decided to try and whoop me one night. I abliged the oppurtunity and he became aware that I was not who he was after (his GF's ex).
The next day he was skateboarding in front of his uncles house, who's wife was pregnant. His uncle told him to go home, he was making too much noise. He did and came back with a shotgun, shot his uncle dead on the front porch.
But since he was a minor with "issues" he was released on his 18'th BD. He actualy wound up in the town I live in now when he was released and killed a couple by stabbing them.
Age is no reason to dismiss a threat, no matter how mixed up someone is.
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
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posted April 08, 2010 08:08 PM
Officer Tom told me he faced 14 year olds with AK's when he was in Iraq. An AK is still deadly in the hands of a 14 year old.
Thekid kills his uncle with a shotgun, and they let him out of jail, or juvenile detention, only to kill again? Amazing. Simply amazing.
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted April 08, 2010 08:35 PM
Dang cops!
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 08, 2010 09:34 PM
Warms the cockles of my heart to see that 49er and Tom64 have bonded. <sigh>
Some good has come out of this thread after all!
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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fgf4
unknown comic
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posted April 08, 2010 11:09 PM
quote:
I feel sorrow for the boy and his family. Perhaps the police could have done a better job, or maybe they did the best they could under the circumstances. Hindsight is always 20/20.
None of us were there... how will we ever know. Simple. WE won't.
I do wonder why they couldn't have shot him with a shotgun? I think someone made a mistake... plain and simple. The kid was definitely in the wrong and as sad as it seems his death is justifiable in this situation.
Nikonut
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Locohead
World Famous Smoke Dancer
Member # 15
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posted April 09, 2010 03:26 AM
Silly as it may sound, I'm still wondering why tranquilizers aren't used? Never would of thought about it on my own, but it seems like a dang good idea to me. I knew a guy that was running from police and got shot by rubber bullets to make him stop, why not tranqs. for an armed fellow? LOL Makes me laugh a little thinking about it, but seriously, there's got to be a reason, why not?
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I love my critters and chick!!!! :)
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fgf4
unknown comic
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posted April 09, 2010 04:28 AM
I think I can answer that one...
Tranq guns are basically like shooting a dart from a paintball gun. They aren't really accurate or long range delivery systems.
A load of bird shot would have brought him down from that barn roof pretty quick and so would rubber bullets. Maybe they didn't have anything like that available. If the rifle guy was even a little proficient he could easily have taken a non-lethal shot. Problem would be if he sustained disabling injuries... the liability would bankrupt the local police department!
Bottom line is: The kid was in the wrong and it wasn't handled as well as it should have been.
The kid paid the ultimate price for his craziness and I'm reasonably sure the officer that shot him will have lasting remorse to deal with for the rest of his life. No one will ever know if this didn't save even more lives later on...
Nikonut
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
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posted April 09, 2010 05:06 AM
Im not sure what to think of ADHD. My oldest was diagnosed with it when he was 7. He was out of control and no amount of spanking did any good. It threw gas on the fire. I let them put him on some meds. It did the trick, but I could not stand the catatonic like state that it put him in. He didnt want to eat. But the teachers liked it. It wasnt but a short while and I played doctor and pulled him off that shit. I would rather deal with it myself than to see that. I found some other meds that didnt do that. He couldnt even tell he was taking anything, and it helped him focus a little better. After a couple of years I took him off and he is fine. Im not sure I did the right or wrong thing. I did find one other remedy. Take the god damned liberal teachers out of the picture and teach him myself.
While on controversial disease, Bi Poloar is pretty wild. I think everyone is Bi Polar to a degree. Growing up, you were just fuckin nuts. Now your Bi Polar. You get Xannnax and a host of other dope to keep you smoothed out and a check from Uncle Tom, I mean Sam, if you play your cards right.
I still think the cops did the right thing. However, we dont know all the story. I still think if it had happened here, he might be alive. You think Im jokin, but my mom, or even my wife if it were one of our kids, would have had no problem marching into the barn, takin a shoe off and dealin out an ass whuppin.
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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CrossJ
SECOND PLACE: PAUL RYAN Look-a-like contest
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posted April 09, 2010 06:29 AM
quote:
.... would have had no problem marching into the barn, takin a shoe off and dealin out an ass whuppin.
LOL Andy! That was such a clear mental image it was scary. My moms prefered tool was a big wooden spoon or a wooden hair brush.
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A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body.
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
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posted April 09, 2010 07:14 AM
LOL, one grandma used a wooden spoon and the other a hair brush.
Tell em Geordie, these women dont fuck around. Ass whuppins are severe!
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Andy
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted April 09, 2010 07:21 AM
Just to add, my mon wasnt particular about tools. Its funny now, but she would get pissed and grab somethin and start beatin my ass and talk to me the whole time. And it didnt stop when she was done talkin about what I had just done. Hell no! While on a roll, I got my ass beat for several things that I had done that she either couldnt get to me at the time to whup my ass or hadnt heard about until recently.
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Andy
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fgf4
unknown comic
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posted April 09, 2010 07:30 AM
My Mom would have just yelled at me by name(first name,middle name,and last name)and that would have been more than enough!
Then when Dad got home the belt would have come off and the whopp'n would have started!
Not enough of that goes on in this country anymore and that's a big part of the problems we face.
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted April 09, 2010 08:22 AM
My Grandma raised 6 boys who all would just laugh at her "spankings" then one day she blew a gasket and commenced to spanking one of them with what she had in her hand. It was a giant butcher knife and from then on she took control of the rest of them.
Fortunately I was the first Grandson and never did no wrong... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
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posted April 09, 2010 09:22 AM
Hell no it dont go on anymore, not near enuff. You can ask either of our boys, it does here. Either one of us will whup an ass in the drop of a hat. But dont have to much anymore. I think they sunk in. And they both look you in the eye when the shake hands and they both use no sir (or mam), yes sir, thank you and please more than most kids.
Most folks are afraid of the gawd damned laws that they will go to jail for whuppin a kids ass. Im lucky that the local cops here were raised the same way. When my oldest got old enuff to bull up to me and act like he wanted to fight, I asked the Sheriff one day what to do. I cant afford a felony, it would cost me my license. He said what would your daddy have done? He said to knock the little bastard into next week and he would take care of it. Save him from having to deal with him when he gets older.
We need our families to deal out the old time corpral punishment on kids. Thats exactly what is wrong with out society as a whole. They run roughshod.
Edit: Just so you know. I have neve punched a kid. The closest it came was one time we were in the driveway and getting ready to leave. He was mouthing and bullin up. Now, this boy is 6'3" and weighs about 165 lbs. And, he trains Brazillian Jiu Jitsu and MMA three nights a week, and is good at it. Anyway, he bulled up and pushed me. I saw the surprise in his eyes when I didnt budge an inch and pushed back, sending him about 5 feet slidin in the gravel. He had to go in and wrap his hands and elbows and change clothes. Had some road rash. But the bullin up stopped right there. (Im 6'3", 265 lbs and I train three nights a week with him. LOL)
[ April 09, 2010, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: Andy L ]
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Andy
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 09, 2010 09:48 AM
My son's boys both have or had that ABC shit. I guess the schools advocate and send the kids down to a nurse to make sure they take their trank, on time?
But, this I think is funny as hell, and it developed strictly by accident. One day, my wife grabbed a flyswatter and whacked the oldest. (richly deserved, I might add, as she was not the physical type, at all) This resulted in a display of revulsion you might expect had she dumped a coffee can of human shit on his head.
Unbelieveable! Thereafter and forever more, all it took was to grab and threaten either of them with a nasty flyswatter and they screamed like little girls. Funny as hell.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Ridge Runner
Being a very careful person, I have always bagged my own groceries
Member # 3477
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posted April 09, 2010 01:16 PM
Alot of the problem comes from school, my daughter came home from first grade once and told me, "You can't whip me any more, if ya do you'll get arrested"
I said oh yeah, why ya say that?
"Out teacher told us, said if we got spanked, tell them and they would take us away where we wouldn't ever be spanked and our parents would be arrested"
I immediately grabbed her up, spanked her bottom, set her down and said "tell your teacher if she ever tells you that again, you'll both get one next time" never heard of it again!
RR
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Born To Hunt, Forced To Work
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