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Author Topic: Hello, experts? How is 9mm better than 40S&W
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted April 18, 2019 06:34 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Interesting, and provocative. Herd mentality. Everything’s to blame, it’s nobodys fault. Gear doesn’t matter. It’s training. My granny needs to spend a week at Gunsite or else there’s no way she could ever be able to protect herself. Myself, it’s ce sera, sera, what will be, will be.

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: oh, another thing. Finally I get vindication for my puny little 32ACP. It's handy, concealable and I'm a better than average shot, so apparently, I am adequately armed? It's reassuring.

[ April 18, 2019, 09:00 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 26592 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561

Icon 1 posted April 18, 2019 09:24 AM      Profile for TOM64           Edit/Delete Post 
If it will reach the vitals you're good. If not, you're not.
Posts: 2282 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
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Icon 1 posted April 18, 2019 01:34 PM      Profile for 4949shooter   Email 4949shooter         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
I purchased some of the Lehigh Extreme Penetrator loads for my Delta Elite. I carry it when I'm in the woods at camp. There is a video on you tube showing that bullet going through bullet proof glass, so it should work on a bear. Very impressive to see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDvzul3rvTk

MIVHNTR that's a great video. I actually have the same load as well as the lighter 115 grain Defender. They shoot well out of my Glock. I have always wanted a Delta Elite.
Posts: 2285 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged
4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
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Icon 1 posted April 18, 2019 01:42 PM      Profile for 4949shooter   Email 4949shooter         Edit/Delete Post 
Interesting post Tom. I agree with most of what he was saying.

However, it is no unknown fact that the FBI agents during that encounter were under prepared. Some weren't even wearing body armor! They also had access to heavier weapons (MP5's I believe) which would have served them much better. Why they chose to operate the way they did that day is a mystery. Law enforcement has learned much from this gun fight.

Ed Mirales may not have anatomically killed Platt, but his one handed operation of a 12 gauge pump (his other arm was wounded) without a doubt put a stop to that fight. Stopping and killing may not always mean the same thing.

[ April 18, 2019, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]

Posts: 2285 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged
MI VHNTR
I'm not shaving 'til Obama's gone!
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Icon 1 posted April 18, 2019 06:40 PM      Profile for MI VHNTR   Email MI VHNTR         Edit/Delete Post 
4949shooter, that video is an real eye opener.

I haven't tried the 115gr Defender yet. I really should pick some up and try it. I've been using DoubleTap 135 gr controlled expansion hp and Winchester 175 gr Silvertip loads when not in the woods.

The DoubleTap 200gr hardcast works well in the woods as does the Federal Premium 180 gr Trophy bonded sp load.

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Posts: 323 | From: MI | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
4949shooter
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Icon 1 posted April 19, 2019 04:17 AM      Profile for 4949shooter   Email 4949shooter         Edit/Delete Post 
MIVHNTR,

I have fired the 200 grain Doubletap Hardcast load as well as thier 230 grain. Both are thumpers. I would feel well armed with either in the back country.

[ April 19, 2019, 04:17 AM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]

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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
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Icon 1 posted April 19, 2019 04:26 AM      Profile for Kokopelli   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
So, how long before those Extreme Penetrator rounds get banned as 'Cop-Killers' ?????

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When urinating outdoors, remember to face East, toward Mecca whenever possible.

Posts: 5293 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
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Icon 1 posted April 19, 2019 04:30 AM      Profile for 4949shooter   Email 4949shooter         Edit/Delete Post 
Trying to keep that aspect quiet, Koko.

Some youtubers seeking to grab attention for themselves have already posted videos of these rounds having been shot into soft body armor. Bad for the bullet and bad for the cops. There is no need to post such videos on an open forum.

Posts: 2285 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged
DiYi
Wears wife's pink panties under his camo for good luck. (yeah, right!)
Member # 3785

Icon 1 posted April 19, 2019 09:26 AM      Profile for DiYi           Edit/Delete Post 
Yup...AND getting through whatever may be in the way to those areas.Not always talking thin skin here.Particularly in the military context.
Posts: 634 | From: SoDak | Registered: Feb 2011  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted April 19, 2019 11:03 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Well, thanks to this thread, I just spent all morning watching video, primarily Paul Harrell. I found out I'm a self appointed expert with an opinion on springs and guns, in general. Actually, it was pretty addictive. He's entertaining. But what I was mainly interested in was his explanation of the Dade FBI shootout and he also touched on the Newhall killing as well.

Very interesting stuff. First of all, my personal opinion of FBI has always been 50% cop and 50% lawyer. Maybe things have changed but the way they have been portrayed lately, 50% lawyer, 50% Liberal, and 35% police officer, if that? That's a personal opinion, subject to change, of course. Many claim this attitude only pertains to the upper echelons. I don't know any of them; I think we might have a couple in my club, and if so, let me add; 35% prick.

Okay, cop killer stuff. Well, what is the intent of bringing a firearm to bare, or is it to bear, on any assailant. I guess incapacitate the individual, eliminate the threat, right? In that case penetrator bullets probably have their place, but since body armor was brought up, what about the various hollow point ammo available? Or hybrid like the Lehigh. (PS, I'm also jealous of that Delta Elite)

Hardcast bullets will always be primarily a hand loading proposition and I don't even want to get into casting bullets. I have casted lead and aluminum and brass and don't want to get sidetracked beyond my belt weights for diving and the neat chess set I sand casted, which is very cool, BTW. Bullets? I will buy them if available if and when I REALY need them but it hasn't happened yet. I also worry about fouling the bore with non jacketed bullets and lead is very difficult to remove. At least for me. But, some people talk about hardcast bullets like they are THEE solution, so maybe they are? I'm not interested enough to find out for myself.

I'm not for banning any of these things, cop killer bullets or body armor or hyper velocity ammo. I don't think the general public knows that the body armor that cops wear won't stop most rifle ammo and I'm not even sure if it will stop that 10mm penetrator round? But does that mean it should be banned? What if I own a jewelry store and some guy walks in with body armor and I turned in my banned Delta Elite? Could happen. Then, I shoot for the face, but we all know how that turned out for what's his name, former Nixon guy that was hired by one of the networks and told everybody the obvious solution, shoot for the head. He's not around much anymore, and that's what happens with an uncomfortable truth; nobody wants to hear it.

Anyway, interesting discussion, keep it up.

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: if I need to shoot somebody wearing body armor, if I can't hit the head, the next most vulnerable place is the sides, where there isn't any armor.

[ April 19, 2019, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 26592 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561

Icon 1 posted April 19, 2019 02:08 PM      Profile for TOM64           Edit/Delete Post 
This stupid device I'm on won't play YouTube stuff so bear, or is it bare, with me.

Look up Jerod Reston, I may have posted his story before but it's worth watching again. He's the cop that was shot in the face with a 45 and dished out 40 cal rounds to his assailant.

I'll never look at any pistol round the same again.

Posts: 2282 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
TOM64
Knows what it's all about
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Icon 1 posted April 19, 2019 06:11 PM      Profile for TOM64           Edit/Delete Post 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_FwUfFhFHs

He also switched to a 9mm...

Posts: 2282 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
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Icon 1 posted April 20, 2019 04:56 AM      Profile for 4949shooter   Email 4949shooter         Edit/Delete Post 
I've seen that before. Way to stay in the fight!

Even he said it himself, you have to have "good hits."

No different than hunting. Shots gotta connect in the right spot. I don't blame him for switching to 9 mike mike. The nine is indeed easier to shoot than .40, .45, etc.

Posts: 2285 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted April 21, 2019 02:13 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
I couldn't watch that! When you have a guy with a jungle beard and I can't read his lips, he is not understandable for me. And boring. So, just tell me his conclusions, which must be profound? Is it that he got in a fight and his firearm didn't perform, or what? And, he is now a firm believer in the 9mm? Yeah, maybe he is? That's the trend, the groupthink going on with a lot of people since the military changed their mind and stayed with 9mm. Now we have to demonstrate what a smart move it was.

I agree with one part, the 9mm is easier to shoot, especially for the untrained. I suppose we could go a step further and claim the 380ACP is more effective because it's easier to shoot. I need to stop right there before I box myself in because my Seecamp 32ACP IS NOT EASIER TO SHOOT! In fact, it's a bitch! I think, all in all that I'd rather shoot 3 boxes of souped up 44 Mag than 15 or 20 rounds in the Seecamp. It's just a miserable little fucker to shoot, but I keep thinking that when the chips are down, I won't even notice.

So, I think I just made a case for a happy medium? How about everybody get off where they are most comfortable instead of declaring that the 9mm is good enough? That's the whole idea with the BIG SWITCH. From revolvers to automatics. More rounds available.
Like was said in Miami Dade. One guy was a medal winner in competition and he got off 24 rounds and he "might" have hit the bad guy in the hand, once. Or the guy with the revolver and no speed loader, and he made sure to take the time to put his empties in his pocket. No litterbug! I think he was rushed and killed. So, now that we have 15 and 17 round magazines, we might as well use them! But, the champion marksman lost his glasses and therefore, couldn't hit shit. Spray and pray, 25 rounds, if he had one in the chamber to begin with?

Now, to conform, so that the pussies can handle the marksmanship training, we get rid of the 40S&W and get something a little more comfortable to shoot. EVERYBODY!

At this point, I'd say something like, let's all get 22's because they are easy to shoot. According to Paul Harrell, they are also unreliable. I don't know that rimfire were unreliable but it must be true, I heard it on the Internet. I'm just kind of surprised at all the people that have convinced themselves that the 9mm is good enough. (with hot ammo)

Good hunting. El Bee

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 26592 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
TOM64
Knows what it's all about
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Icon 1 posted April 21, 2019 04:05 AM      Profile for TOM64           Edit/Delete Post 
22's are unreliable, I shoot a lot of them and you'd be shocked at how many duds there are in a brick of most any brand. Hang around a Steel Challenge match and watch everyone have at least one fail to go boom.

As for Jerod Reston, when you get shot in the mouth with a 45, maybe a beard is necessary? His point is handguns are poor fight stoppers unless you put a bullet in the CNS. The more ammo you have, the better you shoot the gun, the higher your odds of surviving are. Enough good bullets that you shoot well and the determination to not only survive but to win, is what it takes.

Posts: 2282 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted April 21, 2019 08:35 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Ok thanks, I couldn't even get that out of it. I admit, if that's the case, of course, grow a beard. Everybody knows I am anti beard, right ko ko? But in my defense, since my hearing is shot from the military and ever since, I'm a lip reader. With the bushface, I couldn't understand anything he said, and after 5 minutes couldn't endure any more of it. I rather have read what he had to say. Granted, somebody that has been through anything like that, deserves to be heard.

But, still. I really feel 9mm is kind of a pip-squeak round. Doesn't seem like just the ticket to settle anyone's hash, so to speak. I've never been shot, of course. (been shot at, out on the "Lone Prairie")
However, I don't need to be a bonified expert to have an opinion. I say, for LB, it's use enough gun. I'll never forgive myself for going to Africa with a 300Mag. and then killing everything with a 6mm that was intended just for jackals. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: PS you are right, I have not experience any misfires or failures with a 22. Other than chambering. I guess that means I don't shoot enough and that's probably true. I'm not very interested in rimfires.

[ April 21, 2019, 08:37 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 26592 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633

Icon 1 posted April 21, 2019 12:56 PM      Profile for Kokopelli   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
I've never understood why someone would undergo a daily ritual to make their face look like a baby's butt. [Confused]
I razor-burned my chin once too often about 4 decades ago & it hasn't happened since. [Smile]

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When urinating outdoors, remember to face East, toward Mecca whenever possible.

Posts: 5293 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted April 21, 2019 02:53 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Now, that's funny! And I deserve it. Touche'

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 26592 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
DiYi
Wears wife's pink panties under his camo for good luck. (yeah, right!)
Member # 3785

Icon 1 posted April 25, 2019 12:27 PM      Profile for DiYi           Edit/Delete Post 
Just a heads up in case anyone is thinking about trying a box(s) of Underwood ammo.Now until April 28th there is a 10% off '2019NRA' sale.
Just use discount code "2019NRA" at checkout.
Not a biggie but 10 is 10.

Posts: 634 | From: SoDak | Registered: Feb 2011  |  IP: Logged
DiYi
Wears wife's pink panties under his camo for good luck. (yeah, right!)
Member # 3785

Icon 1 posted April 27, 2019 03:38 AM      Profile for DiYi           Edit/Delete Post 
Also,finally the Glock for LB.
https://us.glock.com/en/pistols/g45-mos

Posts: 634 | From: SoDak | Registered: Feb 2011  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 6 posted April 27, 2019 08:52 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Oh, I get it! Ha Ha!

So many strikes against. First, undoubtedly unavailable in The People's Republik. 2) it's a Glock, and #3 it's a 9mm.

Other than that, Gee thanks! Can't wait to get my sweaty little hands on one of these beauties!

Good hunting. El Bee

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 26592 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
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Icon 1 posted April 27, 2019 02:19 PM      Profile for 4949shooter   Email 4949shooter         Edit/Delete Post 
If you like 45 ACP Leonard, you might want to consider s Glock 30:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qftlD9xugS0

Posts: 2285 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged
4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530

Icon 1 posted April 27, 2019 02:23 PM      Profile for 4949shooter   Email 4949shooter         Edit/Delete Post 
Also, it appears to be legal in Kalifornia according to this list:

https://www.oag.ca.gov/firearms/certguns

Posts: 2285 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted April 27, 2019 03:08 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks, 49. But. I don't think you get it? I'm not particularly enamored of 45, although I just bought one; just for the heck of it. And, I can't be buying a new handgun every month. Even if I wanted to, my financial situation wouldn't allow it.

However, there is no chance of me suddenly buying a Glock. They might be the greatest handgun on the face of the earth, but I'll never find out, I have an embedded dislike for all Glocks, part of my maverick attitude of not running with the crowd. It might be ignorant and ill informed, but that's it; no Glocks for this kid. I think they would appeal to Euro Liberals. Ouch! Sorry, low blow!

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: Hey, I just scrolled that link, handguns we are allowed to purchase in the People's Republic. Also, the recently delisted guns. What an incredible boondoggle! Makes me sick!

[ April 27, 2019, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 26592 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530

Icon 1 posted April 30, 2019 04:09 AM      Profile for 4949shooter   Email 4949shooter         Edit/Delete Post 
Okay my mistake Leonard. I thought you were a .45 guy.

Understood, we can't all be Glockaholics..

Posts: 2285 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged


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