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Author Topic: Non lead bullets...
Lone Howl
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Icon 1 posted September 30, 2018 01:29 PM      Profile for Lone Howl   Author's Homepage   Email Lone Howl         Edit/Delete Post 
Went out this morning and shot 3 coyotes. 22-250 with lead free hollow points. Everyone of em took a follow up to kill em...one took 4 fucking shots...including 2 slueces from 10 feet. I felt like I was shooting a .223 or something!
They shoot great on paper...and I made a great 250 yard loping away shot on one.. and a 300 yard standing shot on another....but out of the last 50 coyotes I've shot with lead free small caliber bullets,..close and far.. probly most of them required a couple more shots to finish em off. At first I questioned my shooting, but even when I do my part (snicker) they suck. And I've been thru several types and brands.

Just bitching.

Thanks California.
Mark

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When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.

Posts: 1981 | From: Porterville Kalifornia | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633

Icon 1 posted September 30, 2018 02:05 PM      Profile for Kokopelli   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
In your left pocket, you carry the lead bullets and in your right pocket, you carry …….. more lead bullets 'cause you moved to Arizona and don't have to put up with such nonsense. (Yet.)

Calif. (in my opinion) is heading for a political, social and economic meltdown. When it happens, it's going to make the Watts Riot & the Rodney King Riots look like Saturday night at the Palimino. (Cowboy bar.)

Get out while you can.

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When urinating outdoors, remember to face East, toward Mecca whenever possible.

Posts: 5063 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
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Icon 1 posted September 30, 2018 02:17 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Thank California for lots of well intentioned dictatorial legislation, since we only have one political party in this state and they can do anything they damned well please. And, they fall all over themselves in Sacramento demonstrating who can introduce the most outrageous and unneeded bills resulting in very bad laws....For our own good, of course. I hate Liberals!

What is it I keep hearing about solid copper bullets? They don't expand in the bore enough for accuracy and for velocity? Any truth to that? What I question is the need, of course. It's unneeded and unnecessary. This anti lead bullshit is an anti hunting device and serves no legitimate purpose. I can't believe hunters and shooters have given up on the issue! It just gets worse. There is no legitimate reason for mandating lead shot, especially for upland game.

I've said before, this restriction on lead for diving ducks is only justified further east where they have muck and mud bottoms and the divers ingest that lead and a few will die. So, the solution, steel shot and contend with a higher percentage of cripples that set wings and are wasted where they are unretrievable. Yeah, I know there are more expensive alternatives now.

The asinine idea that condors scavenge unrecovered game and then pick out the tasty lead bullet fragments. This is why I say that Game Biologists are just as shameless liars as normal Liberals. They literally have a license to lie, who's going to question their data, much less their motives.

Anyway. Folks, all these unfair and very questionable regulations are coming your way. Be ready.

Oh, I haven't addressed the actual lethality of these light for caliber bullets. Or, they have to be much longer and require a fast twist. And, is that always a good thing? I can think of a couple negatives.

Anyway Mark. I'd really rather drive out of this state to hunt. I have felt that way for more than 40 years. What the hell am I still doing here?

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: Oh, I didn't mention why lead shot is fine out west. It's because our ponds and lakes are sandy bottoms and the lead shot drops through it and the birds can't reach it....so, it's not a risk. So, it's unnecessary, for waterfowl. And, it sure as hell is unnecessary for everything else. Period!

[ September 30, 2018, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 25831 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633

Icon 1 posted September 30, 2018 03:04 PM      Profile for Kokopelli   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
Lead free was never about protecting game or birds.
The idea behind steel shot was to force hunters to use something so inefficient that they would give up hunting.
And more importantly, they would not pass the hunting tradition on to children and grandchildren. Attrition wins in the end.
And, if the Antis can use the issue as a 'cause' and raise a few bucks for this important work ……….you know the mantra.
Do NOT be surprised if the Antis next claim that lead free bullets are inefficient (Lone Howl said so) and hunting should be stopped or severely restricted.

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When urinating outdoors, remember to face East, toward Mecca whenever possible.

Posts: 5063 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19

Icon 1 posted September 30, 2018 06:58 PM      Profile for Lonny           Edit/Delete Post 
I always kinda figured the all-copper bullets would kill a bit slower than the lead-core bullets on coyotes. Thanks for the report, Mark.

I've seen a few elk and deer killed with the Barnes X and the more recent TSX. In quite a few cases, critters run further than you'd think when punched in the lungs when compared to a lead core bullet.

I always figure if they come down on the use of lead bullets here, I'll do like Koko mentioned.

If a guy had to hoard a thousand or so lead bullets to sneak afield, that should take me well past my coyote chasing days. By than I won't care anymore...

[ September 30, 2018, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: Lonny ]

Posts: 1159 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Brent Parker
Knows what it's all about
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Icon 1 posted October 01, 2018 09:30 AM      Profile for Brent Parker   Email Brent Parker         Edit/Delete Post 
That hasn't been my experience. But its been with a fast twist .223 with 55 and 62 TTSX. I have also used a .243 with Barnes 80 TTSX for a lot of coyotes and never had one take a step.
Posts: 153 | From: 2 miles east of Vic | Registered: Mar 2013  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
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Icon 1 posted October 01, 2018 10:31 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Why are you using copper bullets, Brent? Preference, or some regulation bs?

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 25831 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
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Icon 1 posted October 01, 2018 11:32 AM      Profile for Lone Howl   Author's Homepage   Email Lone Howl         Edit/Delete Post 
Yes..are you crazy? Or are you preparing to move to Kali?
Mark
edit to add...I have been thinking about trying a faster twist barrel with the heavier(longer) bullets. Ive been debating for about 4 years now on it. I just keep thinking Ill move or just hunt out of state, but....

[ October 01, 2018, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]

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www.varmintsinc.com

When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.

Posts: 1981 | From: Porterville Kalifornia | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
knockemdown
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Icon 1 posted October 01, 2018 01:17 PM      Profile for knockemdown   Author's Homepage   Email knockemdown         Edit/Delete Post 
What Brent said...

Mark, what twist is your .250?
Barnes makes a .224 cal. TTSX in 50, 55 & 62grains. Would work for a 1:12, 1:10 & 1:8, respectively...

Posts: 2105 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
Member # 29

Icon 1 posted October 01, 2018 02:45 PM      Profile for Lone Howl   Author's Homepage   Email Lone Howl         Edit/Delete Post 
Remmy 1-14 on all my 22-250's. Itll shoot the bigger pills, but not as good. Ill have to do something though.
Mark

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www.varmintsinc.com

When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.

Posts: 1981 | From: Porterville Kalifornia | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Brent Parker
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Icon 1 posted October 02, 2018 05:49 AM      Profile for Brent Parker   Email Brent Parker         Edit/Delete Post 
Contract requirements.

Barnes TTSX bullet has killed coyotes out to 350 with the .223 with boring regularly and I prefer the 62 TTSX but have used the 55 TTSX and 500 with the 80 TTSX. Cant remember ever shooting one twice.

Cali is never on my horizon. Its too fucked up politically for me.

As far a crazy just depends.

For a fur bullet they are great. Kill well and little fur damage. Have used them for 7 years so I do have some experience with them.
Seating depth is critical on them to get them to shoot but they will once you find the spot they want to run.

Building myself a .22 Creedmoor and plan to run the 70 TSX for this season.

Posts: 153 | From: 2 miles east of Vic | Registered: Mar 2013  |  IP: Logged
Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
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Icon 1 posted October 02, 2018 07:03 AM      Profile for Lone Howl   Author's Homepage   Email Lone Howl         Edit/Delete Post 
I have to admit, fur friendly they are. At some point Ill probly rebarrel one of em and shoot something a bit heavier. My jaunt to Arizona a few months ago was liberating...I didnt feel like a criminal carrying around lead bullets.

Mark

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www.varmintsinc.com

When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.

Posts: 1981 | From: Porterville Kalifornia | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
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Icon 1 posted October 02, 2018 07:20 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, but don't feel too secure! You do know that if you get drawn in one of the units surrounding the Grand canyon the AZ Game and Fish will issue you two boxes of lead free cartridges.

I'm telling you people; it's creeping Liberal communism. One day, if we don't put a stop to it, lead bullets will be completely banned in the United States. Look, for a couple hundred years or so, lead has served quite well, as a projectile, in Victor's coyote rifle and on battleships. Now, suddenly, they reinvent the wheel! If somebody can prove how much better solid copper bullets are, I'm willing to consider the question. But, this MANDATORY SHIT has got to stop!

Good hunting. El Bee

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 25831 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
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Icon 1 posted October 02, 2018 08:36 AM      Profile for knockemdown   Author's Homepage   Email knockemdown         Edit/Delete Post 
Brent, I just tested some 70TSXs in my .220Redline. Seated .020" off a hard jam & dumped a big charge of RL33, per Quickload recommend....and they SHOOT! Figure they're steaming at about 3870fps, or thereabouts, from a 53Kpsi load...

The 80TTSX from 6x45AI also very well with a .020" jump.

Posts: 2105 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
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Icon 1 posted October 02, 2018 04:42 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
This is just me, my friends. And, those of you that have been forced to use copper bullets, I commiserate but I for one would resist vigorously. Only if I thought they would perform better without several alterations in my equipment and procedures. And, first of all I've never used copper bullets and hope I'm never forced to use them. But, I could be forced. Soon. And that drives me fuking nuts!

Good hunting. El Bee

[ October 02, 2018, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 25831 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Grizz
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Icon 1 posted October 03, 2018 03:19 AM      Profile for Grizz           Edit/Delete Post 
Fuck it... I for one intend to ignore the lead ban. Rick

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I don't hunt with the pack.

Posts: 87 | From: So Cal | Registered: May 2015  |  IP: Logged
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633

Icon 1 posted October 03, 2018 06:52 AM      Profile for Kokopelli   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
If you get caught just claim that you're here illegally and request sanctuary.

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When urinating outdoors, remember to face East, toward Mecca whenever possible.

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TOM64
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Icon 1 posted October 07, 2018 01:25 PM      Profile for TOM64           Edit/Delete Post 
I've been using the Barnes TSX on pigs and a few deer, never had a problem with them. In fact I've joked that I could use my 1/8 twisted 22-250ai and a 62 gr TSX to shoot an elephant. I'm pretty confident in that combo.

My 223 is a 1/7 twist and I use 55's in it but haven't wasted any on coyote cause I don't have to.

Posts: 2260 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
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Icon 1 posted October 08, 2018 06:41 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Again, I have to ask. What's the prime motivation for switching to a mono metal bullet? Just never have been satisfied with the performance of conventional copper clad lead bullets or curiosity or regulations, or something else?

My particular attitude is something like, reinventing the wheel. I just want to understand the reason, a quest for knowledge, or something I haven't thought of?

Good hunting. El Bee

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 25831 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633

Icon 1 posted October 08, 2018 09:40 AM      Profile for Kokopelli   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
If non-toxic bullets or shot is more better than lead ……….. Great !!!!
I just don't like the idea of being told that this is what you HAVE to use because WE decided what's best.

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When urinating outdoors, remember to face East, toward Mecca whenever possible.

Posts: 5063 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
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Icon 6 posted October 08, 2018 11:33 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Well yeah. I'm ornery enough to decline using them even if they were demonstrably better, just because some policy wennie has decreed it be mandatory. Fuck that. But, okay, everybody has a choice and a free will and I wonder why we have this jumping on the band wagon by normally independent minded folks.

(Bret, you are excused)

Good hunting. El Bee

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 25831 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
TOM64
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Icon 1 posted October 08, 2018 12:30 PM      Profile for TOM64           Edit/Delete Post 
The reason I even tried the Barnes TSX is because when we started getting pigs in our area, everyone who knew anything about them said a 30-06 would bounce off a big boar. I didn't have a 30-06 but I did have a 223 so I tried the 55 gr TSX and found they killed pigs just fine as did Ballistic tips and everything else we tried.

But when I got the 22-250AI I ordered some 62's just in case of a bear attack. It is now my deer rifle setup if I ever go deer hunting again.

Posts: 2260 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
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Icon 1 posted October 08, 2018 03:08 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
OKAY, FAIR ENOUGH. (oops)

But, the last hog I killed went 200, dropped him stone dead with my 223AI and 55 gr. Hornady VMax. Full disclosure/headshot, maybe that don't count?

Good hunting. El Bee

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 25831 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
TOM64
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Icon 1 posted October 08, 2018 08:23 PM      Profile for TOM64           Edit/Delete Post 
Yep, pigs are pretty easy to kill if you hit em right. I've yet to see the gristle plate protecting their heart and lungs stop a 22 caliber bullet.
Posts: 2260 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
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Icon 14 posted October 09, 2018 05:37 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Interesting comment: "If I ever go deer hunting again" I'm slipping into that category where I don't really give a shit, for several reasons. But, never say never, and all that good shit.

Good hunting. El Bee

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 25831 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged


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