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Author Topic: I'm all on board with the TSS
DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11

Icon 1 posted September 24, 2017 03:50 PM      Profile for DAA   Author's Homepage   Email DAA         Edit/Delete Post 
Been running nothing but 2-3/4", a 1-5/8 oz. load of TSS #2 so far this year. Had a shot with it yesterday that just kind of cemented my thoughts on it. That TSS is some coyote killing shit!

Have killed about 20 coyotes with that load in the last month. Most of them, pretty pedestrian stuff, wouldn't have made much difference what load I was using. A few have raised my eyebrows though, dumping coyotes at the long end of shotgun range and dumping coyotes with marginal hits.

But after all the pattern testing this summer and the coyotes killed over the last few weeks, I feel like I have a really good handle on what this stuff can do. So...

Yesterday, had just a face through a hole in the sage brush at 60 yards. Not a really high percentage shot with a shotgun and most loads, in my limited experience and opinion. But with that TSS load, I had absolute confidence in taking it. I mean, I just KNEW that it was going to be a bang flop. And it was.

Skinned him. At 60 yards, that load put 12 pellets in his face and neck, about half of them penetrating the skull and 3 of the neck hits the pellets (looking like new) were against the skin on the back of the neck.

Killed the shit out of that coyote. At 60 yards. But what really sank home, was that I KNEW it was going to. Not a doubt in my mind.

How many loads do you have that confidence in on a 60 yard shot? That's the only one I have...

Big gorgeous male.

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Triple I started the day with [Big Grin] .

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Anyway... Only a month into using TSS on coyote. But that one shot yesterday really did just sort of settle things in my mind. It's some bad ass shotgun fodder!

- DAA

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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.

Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter

Posts: 2428 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted September 25, 2017 05:46 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Sounds awesome, Dave.

But, I'm missing something. What exactly is TSS? I honestly can't figure out what it means? Is that a shot size or some exotic alloy?

And, I can't imagine what type of choke puts 12 pellets into what I consider to be about 4 1/2" inches, the face of a coyote, although I can't factor the neck?

For us slow guys. Type slow.

Good hunting. El Bee

PS by the way, I'm jealous, I sure miss what you are doing.

edit: you posted yesterday and nobody has responded? WTF?

[ September 25, 2017, 05:48 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All. Don't piss me off!

Posts: 24645 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11

Icon 1 posted September 25, 2017 06:12 AM      Profile for DAA   Author's Homepage   Email DAA         Edit/Delete Post 
Leonard, TSS stands for Tungsten Super Shot. It's a tungsten shot, 60% heavier than lead, hard as steel (maybe harder?). Retains energy and penetrates way better than lead. Way better than Hevi-shot too. Like, WAY better than Hevi-shot (Dead Coyote).

Being so dense and hard and having such amazing penetration, allows using much smaller pellets. Which allows having a lot more of them in the payload. They stay round and don't deform in the bore like lead. Which helps with producing absolutely mind blowing patterns. The patterns with this stuff, you have to shoot them and see them yourself to believe them.

All of which translates to lots of pellet strikes on target. Lots of pellet strikes with amazing penetration.

I'm using #2 shot for coyote. Most people consider #2 TSS for coyote extreme overkill. Have a load with #4 that I haven't used on coyote yet but I'm sure it will kill the shit out of them too. That's using 4's, not #4 Buck, but tiny little #4 shot.

Complete game changer for shotgunning coyotes. It's expensive, but I'm hand loading it for a little bit less than you would pay for Dead Coyote factory loads. And these hand loads kick the holy living shit out of Dead Coyote by every standard or measure you want to apply. Just head and shoulders superior to Dead Coyote in every way.

Next spring I think I'm going to get a few guys to go in together and bring in a bulk shipment from China, will bring the cost of hand loading these down to a little over half the cost of Dead Coyote.

Here is a picture of a 70 yard pattern with this load. That's 24 hits in a 10" circle at Seventy Freaking Yards!

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If you are bored or have a lot of time to kill, I've written a bunch about my work with TSS over the summer. Some links:

What is TSS shot

TSS coyote load pattern testing

TSS coyote load penetration testing

- DAA

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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.

Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter

Posts: 2428 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Paul Melching
In training with the Olympic sex team but I can't get it up!
Member # 885

Icon 1 posted September 26, 2017 01:08 AM      Profile for Paul Melching           Edit/Delete Post 
Damn it Dave now I gotta buy more crap! LOL
Posts: 2013 | From: The Dez. | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged
knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588

Icon 1 posted September 26, 2017 02:44 AM      Profile for knockemdown   Author's Homepage   Email knockemdown         Edit/Delete Post 
All that "whallop " from a 2-3/4" shell...ya gotta love it!
Man, if I had a bazillion acres of sage flats to call, I'd be all over what Dave is cookin' here! Can recall hunting in Idaho where a shotgun with this capability would have been a much preferred tool, over a rifle. Coyotes were buzzing thru that shit like bees, and we had a real hard time gettin' em shot...

Per his MO that we've all come to enjoy & appreciate, Dave is kind enough to share his trailblazing into new territory.

Thanks, Dave!!!

[ September 26, 2017, 02:44 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]

Posts: 1969 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted September 26, 2017 06:23 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
You got that right, Fred!

Dave just started shotgunning and he's already a trailblazer!

Very interesting, and I see a commercial enterprise for someone. Hard to argue with it.

Dave, you the Man!

Good hunting. ElBee

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All. Don't piss me off!

Posts: 24645 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member
Member # 29

Icon 1 posted September 26, 2017 09:17 AM      Profile for Lone Howl   Author's Homepage   Email Lone Howl         Edit/Delete Post 
That is awsome Dave!
Mark

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www.varmintsinc.com

I'd rather have dangerous freedom than safe subjugation.

Posts: 1754 | From: Porterville Kalifornia | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633

Icon 1 posted September 26, 2017 10:15 AM      Profile for Kokopelli   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
Dave;
How big of patterns are you getting at 20 & 30 yards ????
I look really goofy missing a coyote running by at close range 'cause the pattern hasn't opened up yet.

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When urinating outdoors, remember to face East, toward Mecca whenever possible.

Posts: 4604 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11

Icon 1 posted September 26, 2017 10:27 AM      Profile for DAA   Author's Homepage   Email DAA         Edit/Delete Post 
Koko, about the same size as every other coyote load I've tried. Haven't actually ever patterned anything at 20 yards, but have done a few at 30. They're tight, but not that much tighter than any other coyote load I've ever tested.

The difference is that the TSS patterns hold together at 40, 50 , 60 and beyond a lot better than any of the others I have ever tested.

But I think how tight they are up close is entirely in the chokes I'm using. Not really a "load" thing at all.

- DAA

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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.

Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter

Posts: 2428 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11

Icon 1 posted September 26, 2017 10:37 AM      Profile for DAA   Author's Homepage   Email DAA         Edit/Delete Post 
Might add though...

I think if you wanted to use a more open choke, and tailor a load for a wide pattern at 30 yards, it would be very easy to do with TSS. And, it would still offer potential advantage over lead via pellet count.

Penetration is not much of an issue at 30 yards. Lead BB is fine at that distance. But TSS #6 would be plenty fine at that distance too. There would be over 200 pellets in 1-1/2 oz load of TSS #6. You could run a cylinder choke and even add a spreader wad and be putting out a crazy wide wall of death at 30 yards with a load that would maintain sufficient pellet density across the whole pattern to kill good at the edges - which could be made to be pretty far apart!

Probably getting a little esoteric, but, you really could do it, easy. And it would just hose them down inside 30. Could almost do it with your eyes close [Big Grin] .

- DAA

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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.

Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter

Posts: 2428 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633

Icon 1 posted September 26, 2017 11:54 AM      Profile for Kokopelli   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
[Big Grin] I could maybe shoot better with my eyes closed.
Wouldn't need to yank the trigger & jerk my head up off of the stock to admire the great shot I just.............Hey !! Where's he going ????? [Eek!]

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When urinating outdoors, remember to face East, toward Mecca whenever possible.

Posts: 4604 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
tedo
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4320

Icon 1 posted September 26, 2017 04:04 PM      Profile for tedo   Email tedo         Edit/Delete Post 
Dave,

What reloader are you using to create these loads? Are special shot cups or wads required? I haven't loaded shot shells forever and traded off the MEC loader and was wondering what type off reloader works if I get back into shot shell reloading.

Posts: 38 | From: S.E. Arizona | Registered: Feb 2013  |  IP: Logged
the bearhunter
HM PROSTAFF & MIDWEST REGIONAL GURU VOTED MOST HANDSOME MINNESOTAN
Member # 3552

Icon 1 posted September 26, 2017 06:15 PM      Profile for the bearhunter           Edit/Delete Post 
Damn, that's impressive Dave!
I'm very nonchalant when in comes to shotgunning coyotes, don't know why?

I love doing it but have never taken it seriously enough to find what works great.
Been known to grab a handful of 6lead and get in tight cover.
Grew up shooting red fox and liked copper plated 2's n bb's.
I maybe shoot 10 coyotes a year with shotgun but now you got me thinking?

Posts: 1027 | From: minnifornia | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged
DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11

Icon 1 posted September 26, 2017 06:16 PM      Profile for DAA   Author's Homepage   Email DAA         Edit/Delete Post 
I'm using a Mec Sizemaster. But, all I use it for is the crimps. The rest of the process is like handloading for a centerfire rifle.

I weigh the powder and put it in the hull. Then place the wads in by hand. Then weigh each shot charge and pour them in the wad. Then use the press to crimp them.

Nothing exotic about the wads or anything. Except, I use a mylar wrap inside the shot cup as extra insurance against contacting the barrel with one of those very, very hard pellets.

- DAA

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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.

Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter

Posts: 2428 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
tedo
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4320

Icon 1 posted September 27, 2017 05:12 AM      Profile for tedo   Email tedo         Edit/Delete Post 
What is cost per pound of the TSS? How many pounds would be required to participate in a bulk buy? Been using #4 buck with fair results and picked up some Federal Heavyweight Coyote BB to try but the TSS peaked my interest.
Posts: 38 | From: S.E. Arizona | Registered: Feb 2013  |  IP: Logged
DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11

Icon 1 posted September 27, 2017 05:58 AM      Profile for DAA   Author's Homepage   Email DAA         Edit/Delete Post 
That Federal Heavyweight is some mean stuff too. It's 15 gr/cc. Much heavier and harder than lead, about halfway between lead and TSS. In a BB size, it's going to just smash coyote.

I got started down this path when my mentor Bob gave me some hand loads of Federal Heavyweight #2 shot. I killed a handful of coyotes with those loads and was totally hooked on heavier than lead and the advantages of high pellet count.

I would way rather use that Fed. HW BB load than Dead Coyote T. Way rather!

At what I'm paying for TSS now, I'm at about $4.60 per shell to load them.

I can't say what the bulk buy will end up looking like. I have not looked into it real close yet - I do have a couple manufacturers info and some pricing on smaller quantities but haven't got pricing on a big quantity (100 kilos) yet. I won't want to get too many guys involved, just be too much PITA, so the buy in will probably be pretty high. Probably at least $500 each. But really, I don't have any details yet and would rather not start speculating too much. I won't do it at all if we can't make it work for a significant price break, which at smaller quantities it wouldn't be worth it.

- DAA

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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.

Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter

Posts: 2428 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted September 27, 2017 05:59 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
I'm just about like everybody else reading this shit. Seems kinda revolutionary? The problem is, being a skinflint, I have enough #4 Buck to last me several seasons, if I want to restrict my shooting to 40+ yards, which I do, religiously.

But, DAMN! Just the idea of shooting, (and killing) a coyote at 70 yards sounds like a load of horseshit. If Dave says it, I gotta believe it.

Really, it can't be long before somebody, a major player gets into the game. This is awesome stuff!

Imagine loading something like BB's (TSS) and gunning whitetails? The possibilities seem endless?

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: I just wanted to mention one thing. I have some 3 1/2" Dead Coyote gathering dust because that shit loosens my fillings. I mean, it's not comfortable, at all to shoot, you know, at game where supposedly you don't notice it? I notice it! Anyway, my question is; with 1 5/8 load of TSS, what kind of recoil are we looking at....and I don't shoot a semi auto?

edit: $4.60 per shell is sobering. Kinda busts my bubble, I think?

[ September 27, 2017, 09:52 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All. Don't piss me off!

Posts: 24645 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Brent Parker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4354

Icon 1 posted September 28, 2017 11:37 AM      Profile for Brent Parker   Email Brent Parker         Edit/Delete Post 
Dave glad to hear shotgunning and the TSS are both working out for you. If you do end up with that bulk order you can count me in. My shot arrived yesterday and boy does it look nice. Hope to get some stuff tried in a few weeks. Hevi shot has always worked well for me but always willing to try something better.

Brent

Posts: 141 | From: 2 miles east of Vic | Registered: Mar 2013  |  IP: Logged
DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11

Icon 1 posted October 01, 2017 06:26 AM      Profile for DAA   Author's Homepage   Email DAA         Edit/Delete Post 
The testing continues [Big Grin] .

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- DAA

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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.

Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter

Posts: 2428 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted October 01, 2017 09:44 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
STOP! STOP! STOP!

This stuff with actually photo results is offensive because I can't get out, at the present time. This teasing is cruel.

Right now is perfect. Northern Nevada, late September, the harvest is as good as it gets.

Oh well, I guess I got my share but it still causes pain, to see those piles. And, not even any night hunting.

Thanks for sharing, Dave. I hate you! [Smile]

Good hunting. El Bee

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All. Don't piss me off!

Posts: 24645 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11

Icon 1 posted October 25, 2017 01:02 PM      Profile for DAA   Author's Homepage   Email DAA         Edit/Delete Post 
Just to cheer you up Leonard. Couple weeks ago, the testing goes on...

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Actually, only three of those were shotgunned. TSS again. But #4 this time. Not #4 Buck, but teeny tiny little #4 shot.

Nothing very noteworthy about any of the shots. Except, I guess maybe worth mentioning the longest one was a small female, standing still, broadside at 51 yards. Not a remarkable shot, at all. But, considering it was a bang flop, with tiny #4 shot, worth mentioning.

Pic of recovered shot from penetration testing earlier this summer, to give some scale to just how tiny #4 shot really is compared to traditional coyote loads.

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Have not been able to get out since the above pile. Can't go this coming weekend either, family stuff to take care of. Maybe the weekend after that if I'm lucky. Hate to see the weeks go by this time of year without getting out after them, but sometimes that is just how the cookie crumbles.

- DAA

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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.

Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter

Posts: 2428 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 14 posted October 25, 2017 04:03 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Good report, Dave!

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All. Don't piss me off!

Posts: 24645 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Displayed Name
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4669

Icon 1 posted December 03, 2017 12:27 PM      Profile for Displayed Name   Email Displayed Name         Edit/Delete Post 
Always love your projects, this is really interesting work. Hope you guys source out a good connection for bulk shot.
Posts: 24 | From: Prince Edward Island | Registered: Feb 2016  |  IP: Logged


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