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Author
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Topic: CZ .223 issue
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booger
TOO BIG TO FAIL
Member # 3602
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posted May 07, 2015 05:17 AM
I won a .223 CZ-527 Varmint rifle last year for my Hunter Ed activities. I was really looking forward to shooting it and using it this fall for calling. It is topped with a 4X12 Vortex Viper scope.
Well, I took it out last weekend, and am really disappointed. I didn’t have a lot of time to shoot, but was just trying to see how it worked with the 53 gr. VMax Hornady Superformance Varmint rounds. The CZ is a 1:9 twist. My AR is a 1:10 and shoots this round lights out.
After 8 rounds, I got frustrated, packed up and left. I did not get a group, but a pattern…all over the place—high, low, left, right. The 1:9 twist is the fastest of my rifles in .223. I figured that even though the bullet might be on the light side for the fast twist, the 53 gr. VMax is supposed to be longer than bullets in the 52-53 gr. category.
Last night, I put my laser bore sight in it and lined it up at 25 yards. It was off a bit to the right, but not horrendous.
The other factory rounds I am going to try are the Nosler 55 gr. flat base hollow point, and some Hornady 55 gr. VMax rounds. I also have some 60 gr. VMax handloads I am going to try as well.
I may be obsessing over nothing as the rifle just may not like that particular load, and may shoot the heavier bullets just fine.
Since we recently had a thread here about getting a .223 ready for coyotes, I wanted to use the collective brains here to see if there might be something obvious in my writing that I am missing.
Thoughts?
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If we ever forget we are one Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under--Ronald Reagan
Posts: 911 | From: Bob Dole Country | Registered: Apr 2010
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted May 07, 2015 06:35 AM
Tim, first things, first...
Did you clean the shit outta the barrel before shooting it?
Are you sure the scope mounts are snug (loc-tite'd?
Where you adjusting the scope at all between shots?
How bad were the groups? Like 2", as in generally shitty, or like buckshot pattern shitty?
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 07, 2015 07:24 AM
Yeah, and don't hesitate to change scopes, if nothing else seems apparent?
Long shot; check to see the barrel actually has rifling. edit: who knows? could be a 6mm barrel?
Regardless of the bullet chosen on a 1-9" twist, there should be something resembling a "group". I once shot 70 gr. bullets in a .224" 1-14" twist. The group was about 5", some holes a little oblong.
I had a Ruger once that wouldn't shoot. Took it back to the store where they acted like I was a moroon, but they sent it in. A couple months later, I got a refund. But no explanation.
Good luck, El Bee
[ May 07, 2015, 07:25 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31451 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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booger
TOO BIG TO FAIL
Member # 3602
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posted May 07, 2015 07:48 AM
Fred,
Question 1…yep, Wipe Out and Hoppe’s #9…
Question 2…will check those, hadn’t thought about that.
Question 3…yes, was trying to…the shots were so erratic, I thought maybe something was jacked up with the scope, and it still could be, (see below).
Question 4…buckshot groups, probably 18” center to center…
One thing I did not mention is that when the scope was mounted, the rings were not high enough to clear the bottom of the scope with the standard factory bolt handle. The gunsmith that mounted it indicated that the ‘action was stiff’ and that it would ‘wear in’…I was so pissed after I got the gun and saw that the bolt had scratched the bottom of the eye piece and it was binding on the bottom of the scope behind the rear ring.
I bought a slim profile bolt handle from CZ and now it runs fine. I am hoping that the jake leg that mounted it didn’t put the scope in a bind so much it threw something out of wack with that—would that be possible?
[ May 07, 2015, 07:50 AM: Message edited by: booger ]
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If we ever forget we are one Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under--Ronald Reagan
Posts: 911 | From: Bob Dole Country | Registered: Apr 2010
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
Member # 4467
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posted May 07, 2015 07:52 AM
18" CTC?? holy shit..
are the bullets tumbling?
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Posts: 437 | From: Tucson | Registered: Sep 2013
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booger
TOO BIG TO FAIL
Member # 3602
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posted May 07, 2015 08:49 AM
Fur,
Not that I could see...it looked like neat holes through the target backing.
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If we ever forget we are one Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under--Ronald Reagan
Posts: 911 | From: Bob Dole Country | Registered: Apr 2010
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted May 07, 2015 09:44 AM
Hmm...
Sum ting seriously wong to shoot that badly.
Considering the cluster-f with the scope/bolt interaction, I'd be looking hard at ruling the optic and/or mount out as Priority #1.
Heck, you could prolly 'eyeball' down the bare barrel and shoot better than 18" @ 100yds. So, I'm thinking there's prolly something mechanically askew with your aiming device...
Aside from that, I had a Salvage .17HMR that shot that badly out of the box. I proved it with 5 different brands/weights of .17HMR ammo @ 20yds and got 4-5" groups ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) Turned out that barrel was complete shit. Got it back with a fresh tube & a test target group right about 1" @ 100yds...
Other than a forked up optic/mount or a bad barrel, I don't see what else could cause such deplorable accuracy?
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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booger
TOO BIG TO FAIL
Member # 3602
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posted May 07, 2015 09:47 AM
I think I may take the current scope off and send it back to Vortex to see if something is amiss...they have a lifetime warranty.
In the meantime, methinks I will get some Leupold glass and check the rifle with that. I am thinking the issue might be the scope, given the fact that most CZ rifles turn out to be good shooters.
UPDATE: Just spoke with Customer Service from Vortex...am really impressed. Sent an email about the issue and within 10 minutes I received a phone call from them. Am shipping it back to see if any damage was done before I jump into issues with the rifle. Thanks for the suggestions...I will keep you updated how it turns out!
[ May 07, 2015, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: booger ]
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If we ever forget we are one Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under--Ronald Reagan
Posts: 911 | From: Bob Dole Country | Registered: Apr 2010
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 07, 2015 01:40 PM
Even if the bolt scraping against the ocular lens caused it to be pushed off centerline, it would just shoot to a different point of aim. Not all over the place. So, if it is the scope, then something is rattling around inside, like the crosshairs erector assembly is broken and hanging by a "thread", due to the extreme recoil of that caliber. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
You know, "some" bedding problems can get quite radical, although 18" groups appear to be beyond ordinary radical? But, still. Just about the first thing I do is take the barreled action out of the stock....just because. Assuming you did that and it didn't just fall out of the stock, that's still remote. You DID look at it, right?
A nick in rifling at the muzzle can produce some impressive fliers, but again, 18" is beyond anything I have ever seem. The whole thing is beyond anything I have ever seen.... and this ain't my first rodeo?
Now, before you send the Vortex scope back, mount another scope, and if you don't have a spare scope, borrow one. Maybe use a thin strip of paper to make sure you don't damage a friend's scope body when tightening down the rings?
So, you are sure it's a .224" bore, right? Stick a bullet down the muzzle. It shouldn't actually go inside past the ogive.
You have a real puzzler. Don't let us down, keep us up to speed.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31451 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Dave Allen
Hi, I'm SUPER DAVE, IN CHARGE OF Q STUFF (and Goat Leader) "I'm really not trying to be a dick".
Member # 3102
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posted May 07, 2015 04:06 PM
Wow that's really weird Tim. I'm truly puzzled ? I'm with LB try another scope if ya can.
I'm on my 2nd CZ and other than a standard cleaning. I've done nothing and they shoot great.
Hmmm
[ May 07, 2015, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]
Posts: 1986 | From: Jordan Valley Oregon | Registered: Aug 2008
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Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
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posted May 07, 2015 07:43 PM
Optic/mounts and everything is snug is where I'd start. Virtually all of the accuracy problems I've had were related to screws loose or optics going south.
Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DarbinCo
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4590
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posted May 07, 2015 08:21 PM
I would lightly lap the rings, make sure everything's lined up correctly and try a different scope.
[ May 07, 2015, 08:21 PM: Message edited by: DarbinCo ]
Posts: 16 | From: Western Colorado | Registered: Mar 2015
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booger
TOO BIG TO FAIL
Member # 3602
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posted May 08, 2015 04:49 AM
Thanks, guys...after sleeping on it, I am going to mount a different scope and try it before I sent the Vortex in.
The barrel has a recessed crown, and I couldn't see anything amiss.
I will try the bullet test, LB.
I will let you all know what happens. Looks like the weather isn't going to let me shoot this weekend.
The way it looks, we will be dodging baseball sized hail and tornadoes most of Saturday.
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If we ever forget we are one Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under--Ronald Reagan
Posts: 911 | From: Bob Dole Country | Registered: Apr 2010
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Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
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posted May 27, 2015 09:20 PM
Update Tim? Other than repeating what everyone else has said, I can only ask if you're aware that the CZ's require a dovetail ring/base to mount your scope. There are at least 2 different dovetail sizes used on center fire rifles, the 527's (your rifle) they require the 16mm rings. The 550 & other large caliber magnum length actions take the 19 mm (dovetail) rings. Can you post a picture or 3 of the rings you are using? Someone may have sold you the wrong rings.
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mike
Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012
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booger
TOO BIG TO FAIL
Member # 3602
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posted May 28, 2015 04:54 AM
PP,
I just got it back from the gunsmith last night and had a different scope mounted. Hope to shoot it this weekend, (if it ever stops raining!).
Regarding the rings...I believe they are stock CZ rings.
I am going back to the drawing board, starting with a good bore scrubbing.
I found the target that CZ sent with the gun, and it was a one-hole, two shot group at 50 meters at the factory, so it sure looks like the issue is with the optic system.
I will keep you all updated!
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If we ever forget we are one Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under--Ronald Reagan
Posts: 911 | From: Bob Dole Country | Registered: Apr 2010
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted May 28, 2015 04:50 PM
I used to have an AR that shot that well. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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