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Author Topic: .204?
Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19

Icon 1 posted July 10, 2014 01:39 PM      Profile for Lonny           Edit/Delete Post 
I'm thinking about selling a rifle I haven't shot in at least 10 years, but would like to replace it with something that might see some occasional use and is a chambering I don't currently have.

How about a 204? This would be a factory rifle as I have no plans to have something built.

The rifle would be for coyotes, some light duty ground vermin shooting, and also a backup/loner rifle if needed.

If it matters, I currently use a 22-250 for coyotes and have a 243AI that can be pressed into service.

So what about the .204 has it lived up to your expectations for those who have used it?

Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
KaBloomR
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4252

Icon 1 posted July 10, 2014 04:05 PM      Profile for KaBloomR           Edit/Delete Post 
I picked up a Ruger Predator in .204 when they first came out. Beautiful, well built rifle, but it didn't impress me accuracy-wise with anything heavier than 32 grain bullets. The round is hell on prairie dogs, but wasn't doing anything significantly (for me) above and beyond what I could get with 40 grainers in my .223 Rems, so I sold it. Haven't owned another one since, but may again someday.....

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"It always gets a helluva lot worse before it gets any better"

Posts: 302 | From: Utah | Registered: Nov 2012  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
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Member # 2

Icon 1 posted July 10, 2014 05:07 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
I have no business commenting because I've never even fired one, much less owned one.

But my observations are that it is neither fish nor fowl. I really can't consider it as a hammer, beyond midrange, and the fur application is wide open for critical evaluation. Somewhere, a man might find a happy combination, as far as accuracy and terminal performance.

Now, I do like Rugers. It's a Mauser action and there ain't no flies on it, but they have an accuracy problem. They are just good enough, not tack drivers, by any means. I don't know if it's the action screws and the way the recoil lug is seated or they just don't make a premium quality barrel? But, pound for pound, any Savage or Remington will outshoot a Ruger. That's my personal opinion, others may disagree.

Other than that, the fit and finish is decent and they stand up to hard use, maybe even abuse? Will last a lifetime, no doubt. They don't give them away, either.

Good luck Lonny, El Bee

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31269 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Dave Allen
Hi, I'm SUPER DAVE, IN CHARGE OF Q STUFF (and Goat Leader) "I'm really not trying to be a dick".
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Icon 1 posted July 10, 2014 06:23 PM      Profile for Dave Allen           Edit/Delete Post 
Lonny, If'n yer getting the itch for a 204. I say why not ? As far as a factory rifle goes. I think a CZ American or the Varmint version is the way to go.

Can't give any personal experiance's with coyotes. From what, I've gathered is the bullet is of great importance. That in itself seems to be a mixed bag ? Many used to swear by the Berger 35gr match bullet.

They now call it a "varmint" bullet. Dunno ?I've got some Nosler 40gr bullets with the flat base, they might hold together better ? I've had my CZ about a year and a half now,and haven't got around to shooting coyotes with it. Been kinda burned out on calling lately.

Well there ya have it. My humble opinion, my friend. Oh' yeah a 39gr Sierra BK,blows the shit outta' sage rats.. [Big Grin]

Posts: 1986 | From: Jordan Valley Oregon | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
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Icon 1 posted July 10, 2014 06:56 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
I think that's ^ good advice, I forgot about the CZ.

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31269 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
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Icon 1 posted July 10, 2014 08:36 PM      Profile for Lone Howl   Email Lone Howl         Edit/Delete Post 
I always run into callers that swear by their 204's. All my calling buddies have em and pretty much worship the things.
Personally, for coyotes, I don't care for em. I'm the same with .223's. I have shot tons of coyotes with each,(with good bullets) and I'm just never really impressed. I'm the guy that gets shit tons of runners with em. Some will say I don't shoot em right, but dang, when you shoot enough animals, you kind of get a feel for things.
For smaller critters...yes.

Anywhoo, I'm not a fan.
Mark

[ July 10, 2014, 08:41 PM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]

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When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.

Posts: 2083 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
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Icon 1 posted July 11, 2014 03:13 AM      Profile for DAA   Author's Homepage   Email DAA         Edit/Delete Post 
Never used one, or even seen one being used, myself. Which is odd, considering I was shooting .20 calibers before the .204 Ruger existed.

But all of my experience with .20 calibers is at much higher velocities than the puny little Ruger chambering. It does seem like bullet selection is everything with the .20's for coyote though.

- DAA

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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.

Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter

Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
booger
TOO BIG TO FAIL
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Icon 1 posted July 11, 2014 06:49 AM      Profile for booger   Email booger         Edit/Delete Post 
Lonny,
I have a Remington M700 VTR, (the one with the funny looking triangular barrel), and have found it shoots pretty well, .75", with the 32 gr. Hornady factory VMax load.

I have not shot any critters with it though.

I have some MidWay 34 gr. HP's that I am going to try.

I asked this very question a while back when I was considering my purchase.

I think 'ol TRinCO has shot a lot of coyotes with his .204.

His advice to me was to load it with 35 gr. Bergers and let it fly...

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If we ever forget we are one Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under--Ronald Reagan

Posts: 911 | From: Bob Dole Country | Registered: Apr 2010  |  IP: Logged
Moe
Knows what it's all about
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Icon 1 posted July 11, 2014 08:14 AM      Profile for Moe           Edit/Delete Post 
I bought a CZ American 204 some years ago mostly because 2 guys I hunt with were shooting them. In their hands it seems to do a good job of killing coyotes and bobcats. In mine, not so much.

I was advised to use the 40 grain Nosler BT's and the first coyote I shot with the 204 was with him calling. It went down with ease. This was in northern Nevada.

The other guy who pretty much shoots a 204 exclusively doesn't load and shoots the 39 grain Sierra Blitzkings with great success.

I mostly hunt in eastern Oregon and listened to a guy who swore by the 35 grain Bergers so I loaded a bunch and went calling. I called in 2 coyotes that day. The first came to about 75 yards and gave me an easy broadside shot. I hit him in the sweet spot and he went over. As I was getting up he got up and ran back onto some heavily posted private property. I never got a second chance.

The second coyote came to about 50 ft and I shot him square in the chest. He was above me on a rock outcropping and when the bullet hit him he jumped sideways off of the lava and landed on a big rock. I heard ribs break when he hit and could see his tail flagging. I continued calling for about 10 minutes more. When I got up and walked to where he landed the coyote was gone. I looked around for over an hour and never found a trace. I even went back the next morning and couldn't find him. I shot maybe 12 coyotes with the 204 and lost at least half of them.

The 35 grain Bergers and the 39 grain Blitzkings shoot some impressive groups. Maybe it's my advanced age but the 204 hasn't been the ideal cartridge for me. I've talked with some other callers who had similar experiences with the 204. I was talking with Kerry Carver who said he quit shooting a 204 for the same reason I did.

Mine occupies space in my gun safe now days. When I go calling I generally carry a Sako Forrester 22-250 and a Sako Vixen 223AI and sometimes a Remington 700 Deluxe 220 Swift.

I would consider selling the CZ, BTW.

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I snatch kisses. And vice versa.

Posts: 593 | From: Oregon | Registered: Nov 2013  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
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Member # 2

Icon 1 posted July 11, 2014 09:59 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Well, Moe. If I were to copy and paste your post, except change 204 for 223, that's the way I feel about the utility of a 223 for called coyotes under western conditions. At one time, I thought what's the big deal, a 223 aught to kill a stupid coyote in Arizona brush country? In short order, I decided I needed more gun and pretty much settled on 22-250 or better.

But, with the 204, you get a bit more velocity, & a bit less ft/lbs. from what looks to be the exact same case. I don't even remember the distinction, be it a 222Mag or whatever but it looks close enough?

As they say, firearms exist within a "mature market" meaning that every potential customer already owns a few guns. This means you have to perk their interest with the latest whiz bang. "Oh man, gotta have one!" Be cool and own the latest, slickest, most accurate and deadly rifle/cartridge to come down the pike in for ever!

So, we have the Winchester super short magnums, 357Sig. Lazzeroni's reinventing Weatherby magnums, and so forth. Do we really "need" a 204 Ruger or does creating the cartridge generate a demand instead of the other way around?

The 6mm field is cram packed with obscure cartridges that you can't slip a piece of paper between them, performance wise, all with nomenclature that says nothing. The latest factory chamberings in twenty caliber, (back on topic) but it's all versions of reinventing the wheel.

For me, it would have to be a hell of a bargain before I would buy a 204. I just MEH. You guys that find the chambering useful, I am happy for you, but I don't need one.

Cartridge arguments always generate a lot of ink. I bet we aren't through here, yet?

Good hunting. El Bee

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31269 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19

Icon 1 posted July 11, 2014 11:18 AM      Profile for Lonny           Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the replies gents.

I'm somewhat surprised (not totally though) at the lukewarm feeling and experiences (Moe's especially) with the .204.

Good stuff though because it is making me think this over. I never move real quickly on a purchase anyway, but the process is in motion.

Heck, maybe having a 22-250 as a backup for the 22-250 isn't so bad?

Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
knockemdown
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Icon 1 posted July 11, 2014 12:19 PM      Profile for knockemdown   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
Lonny, maybe you "need" a .22-250AI? Or something silly, along the lines of a .22-243AI?

Jump in, the water's warm!!!

Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 6 posted July 11, 2014 12:28 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
You want silly? I hunt at night in heavy cover with a Model 700 chambered in 308 with Russian NV. The good old "brush busting" 165gr. theory, in practice.

Good hunting. El Bee

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31269 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Jackson
SECOND PLACE/GARTH BROOKS LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 977

Icon 1 posted July 11, 2014 12:51 PM      Profile for Kelly Jackson   Email Kelly Jackson         Edit/Delete Post 
I used an AR in straight 204 shooting 35gr Bergers. Killed quite a few coyotes with it. Lost some also.
Right now I am shooting a 204AI with a 9 twist barrel and 50gr Bergers cause I had 600 of them. Last fall was using 38gr Unmussigs running them 4100 MV they did well for me.

Like the 204AI so much, I just build up another one with a 10 twist barrel to shoot all the 40gr Bergers I got stashed.

Been using them both this summer behind the dogs and got no complaints.

I type all this to say if you can find a factory 204 that will shoot a 40gr berger, you will get along fine with it for most calling type setups. They will exit from time to time, but they kill coyotes better for me than the 35's...that and 4 bucks will get you a decent cigar.

stay after them
Kelly

Posts: 997 | From: Comanche OK | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged
Duckdog
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3842

Icon 1 posted July 11, 2014 01:03 PM      Profile for Duckdog           Edit/Delete Post 
The .204R always seems to be a love/hate topic.
It never fails though...
There will always be a bunch of posts discussing run offs,...
And then T.R. shows up...
It's hard to argue against the success he's had with it!

I've always been a fool for the odd and obscure, and sometimes even outdated, but for some reason the .204R just never did much for me.
If we totally disregard coyotes, I still think it earns it's place at the table in the prairie dog fields based on performance.
But, for the type of prairie dog shooting that we usually do, (mobile, and not having to reach out there if we don't want to), I still never found it worth replacing .223's or worth the cost (to me) to tool up for loading.
I've shot prairie dogs all day long right next to guys shooting .204's and they couldn't really do anything I couldn't do with a .223. And, for some reason,...I find them just a little louder but I can't explain that...

Posts: 205 | From: Ks | Registered: Jun 2011  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted July 11, 2014 01:28 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
I'm muy simpatico with duckdog's experience. I don't know what the exact application will be, ultimately, but I do not see a 204 as a great coyote cartridge and as a prairie dog slayer; just about anything can handle that chore. Some guys, depending on where they are and how they hunt will find a 204 useful, but it's just one of many choices out there, doesn't stand out, in my judgement. Kinda like kissing your sister, just doesn't excite.

Good hunting. El Bee

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31269 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Duckdog
Knows what it's all about
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Icon 1 posted July 11, 2014 02:31 PM      Profile for Duckdog           Edit/Delete Post 
I had to use google translate to see if you agreed with me. [Smile]
Posts: 205 | From: Ks | Registered: Jun 2011  |  IP: Logged
Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
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Icon 1 posted July 11, 2014 02:39 PM      Profile for Prune Picker   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
Good info from everyone! I've not owned a 204 and maybe have fired a dozen (or less) rounds thru 2 rifles so my expertise is lacking subjectively. I remember when the round was introduced and felt the same as when the 17 rem came out. How long have people debated on the 17's merits? The difference between the two calibers as far as I'm concerned is mass production, computer designs and communication between shooters and bullet makers. That (to me) favors the 204 simply because today it seems improvements happen with every new lot number of bullets offered for sale on xyz bullet makers web site. Moe isn't impressed with his 204's performance, and rightly so but throw in 10 + years of bullet development and I would encourage him to try the newer and improved(?) bullets before he deletes it from his collection.
When comparing the 223 rem vs 204r, I doubt any noticeable difference using non custom bullets. Compare the parent 222 rem mag case to the 223 rem and there is about 1-2 grains of powder difference between the two. Neck either to 20 cal and improve it all you want but the difference is nil in performance. Barrel length and powder selection will produce more improvements between calibers.

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mike

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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
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Icon 1 posted July 11, 2014 03:22 PM      Profile for TRnCO   Email TRnCO         Edit/Delete Post 
I got so bored with killing coyotes with the .204 that last year I only used my 17/204 for all but a few coyotes, and I broke out the .17 Rem. for them. The lowly .204 didn't get any action with me last year. It just made killing coyotes too easy for me. [Wink] [Big Grin]
Only bullets I ever used were the 35 and 40 gr. Bergers. They both worked well for me, with the 40's getting complete pass throughs from time to time.
One thing is for sure, if the coyote is still moving at all after the first hit, I didn't hesitate to hit'em again. BUT that rule stands no matter the rifle I got in my hands. Seen 'em run off from hits from lots of different sized bullets.
If I were hunting terrain that had heavy cover instead of the wide open terrain that I hunt, I may very well choose to hit'em harder, but not because I've lost a lot of coyotes when using my .204, but because I may not have the luxury of picking my shots at my convenience like in the wide open prairies.
YMMV..

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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!

Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
R.Shaw
Peanut Butter Man, da da da da DAH!
Member # 73

Icon 1 posted July 11, 2014 04:11 PM      Profile for R.Shaw           Edit/Delete Post 
I shot a Tac 20 for a couple of years. Basically the same thing as the 204. The results were dismal. I lost more coyotes with it than I ever did with the 17 hmr. Believe it or not. I did not pick my shots with the hmr, I picked my spots.

Anyways, here is my observation on why some guys have success and others do not. In my opinion, the coyotes are just tougher in MO or say eastern OK. The further west you go, it appears to me they are just not as rugged. Killing an adult here is about the same as killing a pup back in MO. In terms of how easy they die.

How hard or how easy they skin tells me some things too.

Posts: 542 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19

Icon 1 posted July 11, 2014 04:36 PM      Profile for Lonny           Edit/Delete Post 
That's an interesting take on your experiences Randy and not one I've heard discussed on the boards before.

It seems that with the .204, bullet selection for coyotes is absolutely critical, what bullet were you using in the Tac 20 Randy?

Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
R.Shaw
Peanut Butter Man, da da da da DAH!
Member # 73

Icon 1 posted July 11, 2014 06:59 PM      Profile for R.Shaw           Edit/Delete Post 
Lonny...I shot mostly the 35 gr. bergers, but also tried the 39 gr. No difference to me.

Something else. When coyotes first got established in my part of MO, my partner and I bought, trapped, or shot about 100 one year. I weighed every coyote and kept notes. The average weight on the pups was 19 pounds and the adults averaged 24. This was 25 years ago. Now in the same area it is common for almost all coyotes to weigh in the upper twenties and it is very common to kill coyotes in the mid 30's. You better have one over 40 pounds to win any contests. The weight tells me it makes them harder to kill when you compare that factor to these here in my area now.

Posts: 542 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327

Icon 1 posted July 11, 2014 07:34 PM      Profile for 3 Toes           Edit/Delete Post 
I'm surprised. I have pretty good results with the 204 and 35 grain Bergers. Shot them in an AR some and killed more than a few coyotes. Now I have a CZ for my winter rifle that I pack on my side by side while trapping and again have shot a few dozen coyotes with no problems. I mean really, no problems. Frontal, broadside, runners, whatever. It's not a wind bucker or long ranger, but at ranges of 300 or less it's deadly. No comparison to a .223. You couldn't force me to shoot a .223 for any purpose with coyotes, but I'm plumb happy with .204 results. It's not the answer to every situation, but nothing is. I shoot much bigger and badder most of the year, but if I might skin something in the dead of winter I'll gladly shoot my .204.

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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.

Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 14 posted July 11, 2014 08:43 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Well, there you go.

I gladly yield to experience. On paper, it doesn't add up for me, but that's why you have to step beyond the theoretical, into the real world.

However, I still don't need one. LB

edit: I understand what Cal is saying, and in the hands of an expert, a 204 is adequate. Me, I'm not that confident. More gun.

[ July 11, 2014, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31269 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561

Icon 1 posted July 11, 2014 10:19 PM      Profile for TOM64           Edit/Delete Post 
Lonny, I'm on my third go round with the 204. The first two, I lost more than I anchored. I tried the 32 and 39 gr bullets, both of which are too lightly constructed. The 2 guns I had would not shoot the 40's.

But after blowing a few cats up with a 223 and 22-250, I decided to look for a "cat" gun. Cousin had an AR and said the 40 gr Noslers killed coyotes as good as the 22-250. So I lucked into a Kimber Montana in 204. Bought some 35 Bergers for cats but since it was January when I got the gun, I bought a box of 40 gr Hornady shells. Hunted till the end of Febuary with it and killed 2 cats and a dozen or so coyotes. Nothing moved after being shot and fur damage was bearable on the cats while almost non existant on the coyotes. I love it but this year I played with the 22-250ai in the same gun. But I did buy some 40 gr Bergers to use on coyotes and will use the 35's during cat season.
Eastern Oklahoma coyotes
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Cats from the same place
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Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged


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