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Author
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Topic: Two Alberta wolves with one shot
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted January 13, 2017 07:29 PM
This guy has the patience to line up two wolves in one shot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3NgsVEI1Lg
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted January 13, 2017 07:31 PM
This guy did a lot of things right. He used google maps to find a spot that was open enough to allow a set up like this. Very smart!
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
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posted January 13, 2017 08:41 PM
I saw that video a year or so back and had to watch it again. I really like the guys personality. He is an easy watch. It sounds like he had to put in some years and lots of effort to make some kills.
Here is another video of his that he made a month or so later at the same spot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu_QdcKTWZI
He needs a knockemdown tripod rest!
Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 14, 2017 04:34 PM
You know, I've made two trips to Saskatchewan after wolves. Came so close! Both times. One time I saw a nice black one, but we decided to try and head him off by circling around. Never saw him again, he actually might have been hiding?
The other time, it was at night and we were howling and they responded so close, it was a little unnerving. Since there was a full moon and huge snow cover, the whole pack would have stood out easily, but we decided to come back in the morning and call them.
Next morning, right where we were by the side of the road, huge tracks, urine squirts all over and a turd the size of a plantain banana. And, it was full of deer hair, in fact it was a nice over all tan color. The tracks were unbelievable! More like the size of a steer. A couple were smaller, but there could have been 5 or 6 animals, total.
We called all over the place that morning but no dice. I feel pretty sure that they came in after we left, all we would have had to do was hunker down and wait for 'em.
Two trips, zip, except for a few coyotes. ![[Frown]](frown.gif) It's hard to believe when easterners talk about interbreeding coyotes with wolves. You can't even consider wolves doing anything with a coyote besides killing them. Does not compute.
Good hunting. El Bee
[ January 14, 2017, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted January 16, 2017 06:32 AM
Yep, cool vids! I'd seen them before, too...worth another watch!
Leonard, the supposed interbreeding of eastern coyotes & 'wolves' was likely with the red wolf:
...not those big azz gray wolves.
One thing I know for sure, our NY coyotes make a habit of howling back on stand, then waiting a looooong time before investigating...
Case in point, weekend prior with my OK bud. We made a stand @ first light, sat for almost an hour. I had my SBE, watching an old road crossing out of a real thick patch, buddy was watching treeline of the creek...quartering downwind. Nothing doing after nearly an hour, so we went back to the house, gobbled down some bacon & eggs, then headed out again...
Later that day, my farmer friend stopped in. Told me he saw two coyote cross that same old road, not an hour after we broke the stand! From what he described, they'd have crossed 40yds from where I was covering with the 12ga. ONly problem, they decided to show up about 90 minutes too late! Son of a bitch...
As a matter of course, my coyotes sure make a habit of taking their sweet azz time to come to a call. Dunno for certain if that is them acting upon a 'wolfy' part of their DNA, or not, but that kinda shit happens enough for it not to be a coincidence...
[ January 16, 2017, 06:34 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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Leonard
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Member # 2
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posted January 16, 2017 07:54 AM
Yes, I know about that claim, Fred. It's actually somewhat believable if you can ignore the logistics.
I actually killed two Red Wolves down in west Texas back in the early 70's. I didn't really know what they were, at the time, except they were a little different. And, I mean just a little different, but still noticeable. It dawned on me later, when I found out there was such a thing.
It's like the so called, "coydogs", I'm telling you, I did not believe in such a thing for at least 20 years. Then, I killed one and then killed another one and there was no other explanation, they weren't dogs and they sure as hell weren't normal coyotes. I don't remember the time span but this was probably 15 years ago and (who knows) maybe 13 years ago on the second one that really go me thinking.
As far as "interbreeding" red wolves and coyotes, I really think that's a stretch because they are so similar. I can't see how that would account for 50 pound coyotes? Mainly because red wolves aren't even that big. Anyway, that's my opinion.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Paul Melching
Radical Operator Forum "You won't get past the front gate"
Member # 885
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posted January 16, 2017 08:03 AM
Very nice video well done great preparation amazing to watch it happen. Thanks for posting Scott.
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Those who value security over liberty soon will have neither !
Posts: 4188 | From: The forest ! north of the dez. | Registered: Jul 2006
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted January 16, 2017 08:12 AM
I've been back & forth on the whole 'coywolf' 'coydog' thing. But, I'd sooner believe that red wolves & coyotes interbred, than some Heinz 57 farm-pooch did...
Info on Red Wolf:
quote:
Size: The red wolf is of an intermediate size between a gray wolf and a coyote. They are about 4 feet long and stand about 26 inches at the shoulder. Red wolves weigh anywhere between 45-80 pounds, with males averaging about 60 pounds and females about 50 pounds.
For comparison, a pic from my trail cam, back in September:
IMHO, not much of a stretch to think that there's something 'fishy' going on back this way, cuz I ain't never seen no western coyote look like dat!
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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Leonard
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Member # 2
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posted January 16, 2017 02:32 PM
Well, everybody has their opinions but I never thought red wolves would get up to 80 pounds? As far as the coloration, that first pic of yours is perhaps one of the distinctions but at the time, I thought they looked a little like a Collie, the ones that are tricolored, not just fawn and cream colored. But, as coyotes are generally gray, these critters from long ago were more brownish. Lots of coyotes are more brown than gray.
I remember a coyote I killed in southern Arizona one time. This was in the Sahuaro belt and they were pretty thick. But I watched this animal streaking in from quite a ways out there and because he was in and out of these huge cactus, I was positive that this was a red fox coming to the call. Very orange looking, but uniform, not a little this and a little of that One of the most unusual coyotes I have ever seen. Average size, but I never thought red wolf, he/it was just a very red coyote. Funny though, in talking about it right now, I suppose it could be, because the color was such a bright rusty orange/red, exactly like a red fox.
Those Texas animals were both killed at night so just shining a spotlight on em, but come morning, we didn't pay much attention to them. I could have been a lot more inquisitive but lack of sleep, etc. I was past giving a shit.
I think my point is, that I don't really see how red wolves could produce eastern coyotes. The color don't seem right, for one thing.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Displayed Name
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4669
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posted January 16, 2017 04:35 PM
Cool video, I guided for timber wolves for 6 seasons so this kinda took me back.
Posts: 26 | From: Prince Edward Island | Registered: Feb 2016
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Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
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posted January 16, 2017 05:53 PM
Displayed,
How did you hunt for wolves when you guided? I mean what tactics did you use and such? What type of the success rate did your outfit get?
Sounds interesting for sure, but I can imagine it could be very challenging.
Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted January 17, 2017 04:40 AM
quote:
I think my point is, that I don't really see how red wolves could produce eastern coyotes. The color don't seem right, for one thing.
I think that the reason red wolves are nearly extinct is specifically because they've interbred with coyotes.
Here's another 'red wolf' photo, from a zoo
And another, from a facility in Florida:
So, you're telling me, that you're not seeing any resemblance to this 'eastern' coyote?
Search back for some of those excellent pics that Dave & Randy shared of their (western) coyotes. They look more along the lines of this:
Are you not seeing a resemblance between the red wold & eastern coyote?
Are you not seeing the difference between the two flavors of coyote, west & east ?
[ January 17, 2017, 04:45 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 17, 2017 06:12 AM
I don't get your point, but what do I know?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted January 17, 2017 07:42 AM
You mentioned this:
quote:
I think my point is, that I don't really see how red wolves could produce eastern coyotes. The color don't seem right, for one thing.
I was providing a photo example to show that an eastern coyote might actually look more like a 'red wolf', than it does, a western coyote.
Heck, I wouldn't doubt that the decline of 'red wolves' was directly attributable to them interbreeding with coyotes. Thereby, diluting the historical 'red wolf' genome and transforming it into the canine I love to hunt, today...
Losta supposition there, just makin' conversation!
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 17, 2017 01:25 PM
I've seen coyotes that resemble every one of those photos. I remember some time ago that they thought there were eleven different sub species of coyote. I know that some areas have a distinctive looking type, like the silver or pale coyotes up in the Owens Valley. To say that all western coyotes are basically the same is generalizing and also incorrect.
I think that when people start talking about red wolves or pee wee Arizona coyotes or anything else, I get hung up on absolutes. It's very hard to talk about these things without something sticking out in my mind that contradicts the experts.
And, don't forget. Not only am I old, but I have seen more coyotes before you were born than you've seen since. I'm therefore allowed my half baked opinions.
Basically what I think is there is some validity about interbreeding between coyotes and western red wolves. I don't know about Florida or Carolina or eastern coyotes being big because they bred with some type of wolf.
But, the western animal is perhaps interbred to the point of insignificance. And, if this didn't make Texas coyotes bigger, then I fail to see how it made eastern coyotes much larger? There is room for some disagreement but we could say that eastern animals might weight at least 15 pounds heavier than western animals, especially if you start talking Maine, and northern New England. There could be other reasons but the red wolf part of the reason is what I question.
And, it pisses me off that nobody really knows, but they all have an opinion, just like I do. And, you do. I'm just saying, when you want to bring up eastern coyotes and speculate about red wolves, as you did, I ain't buying it. Post all the photos you want, suggest all kinds of interbreeding, dogs, wolves, and coyotes, but red wolves? Nope. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted January 17, 2017 03:13 PM
Isn't there something called 'Bergstrom's Law' or some such that applies, also ???
Has to do with climate / body size.
For that matter, have 'they' even decided how many sub-species of coyote there are ??
Young / Jackson had it at 23, if I'm not mistaken. Now it's something like 17 or maybe 21 depending on which expert is pontificating on the subject.
This is all very confusing.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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Leonard
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Member # 2
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posted January 17, 2017 04:17 PM
Yes, but your name doesn't ring a bell? All I can say is you may be partially correct in that it started with a "B". Somebody look it up.
It has to do, speculating that as you go north to colder climates, the same animal, genetically assumes a larger body size, supposedly to conserve heat or something?
So, that's one theory to explain heavier 'eastern" coyotes. Or, a more abundant diet? I don't know? Is it because of Red Wolves? I think I have a more stronger opinion on that idea....NO. I'm safe because (actually) nobody knows!
In my opinion, animal genetics is one of the shakiest areas in science today.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted January 17, 2017 08:04 PM
HA !!!
I was close; Bergmann's Rule.
Is an ecologic principle stating that body mass increases with colder climate.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 18, 2017 05:26 AM
Yes,
quote:
body mass increases with colder climate.
....and proved by the fact that polar bears in the Los Angeles Zoo are pipsqueaks compared to the Seattle Zoo. Ain't it great? Science is whatever you make it these days.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted January 21, 2017 04:04 PM
I was at the Sioux Falls zoo once upon a time. They had what they called a Mexican Red Wolf. I studied that thing for hours and if it was possible to cross the two, that's what I would expect it to look like. Not saying I believe it can be done but I saw distinct coyote and distinct wolf characteristics. Wolf head and muzzle. Large coyote sized sleek body more coyote like than wolf. Wish I had a picture. I have seen many large coyotes and none of them had this animals wolf like muzzle. Oh yeh, and coyote ears on a wolves head. Just bizarre looking critter.
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 22, 2017 08:25 AM
It could be as basic as individual characteristics. Not ALL males resemble Scott Huber, some look more like El Bee.
Anyway, if you take the canine "order" or whatever is more appropriate, and then have a look at the wide variety of dog breeds that supposedly descend from the Asian Wolf, I personally can look at a number of individuals and have to accept that there is room for diversity.
All I say is that the poor bastards that think they know what's going on have a lot to learn about animal genetics. The final chapter has yet to be written.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Displayed Name
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posted January 22, 2017 11:31 AM
Lonny back then we pushed the wolves with a lone tracker 99% of the time. That was my job. Tracking wounded wolves sure was a blood pumper in thick woods. Some were called, some were shot off baits but mostly pushed wolves. Shot between 10 and 30 a season. It was a 30 hour drive from home so I just went up for wolf season. Worked for Peter Martin in kapuskasing Ontario.
[ January 22, 2017, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: Displayed Name ]
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 22, 2017 12:41 PM
That's interesting.
The reason I say that is because I read a report back in the 60's about a situation with a large wolf pack. I can't remember what state that was involved but it was up north, like Montana, maybe Wyoming or one of the Dakotas?
Anyway, after extensive trapping and poisoning efforts, this pack had outfoxed all of them until this man volunteered to take care of the problem.
What he did was exactly as displayed name is talking about. With nothing more than a backpack and a weapon, he tracked that wolf pack relentlessly, day after day. he was close enough that the wolves always knew he was there, even if he wasn't able to harass them physically.
I don't remember how long it took, probably most of the winter, but he played a physiological game with their heads and made the whole pack nervous to the point that they took off for Canada and never returned. This was the last wolf pack in the US and all he did was track them wherever they went. Wolves were eradicated from the lower 48 for almost 100 years. True story.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
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posted January 22, 2017 06:32 PM
Displayed, Interesting way of hunting wolves.
I've read about that tactic before. Did you have radio contact with the guys waiting to tip them off as to where the wolves might show? What kind of success rate was the norm?
I'd bet you were in good shape being the tracker/pusher, but it was probably a great way to learn their habits.
Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
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posted January 22, 2017 06:47 PM
Leonard I'd love to read that story if you happen think of where it might be found?
I was talking with a guy who worked doing some predator studies in the Frank Church Wilderness area in central Idaho. He said they had a couple radio collared wolves that belonged to a pack that they tracked.
In one case, the pack killed and ate a deer right at dark one day. The next day the pack was located 20 miles away. This country is as steep and rough as you'll find anywhere. I would have thought after eating they would lay around for a day or two?
[ January 22, 2017, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: Lonny ]
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