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Author
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Topic: Coyotes w the new can..
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
Member # 4467
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posted December 13, 2014 11:58 AM
I tried the new suppressor yesterday afternoon, got lucky called in three for three..
I also tried some new subsonic ammo in hollow point. This stuff is amazing! So quiet, like a mice fart..
The subsonic round was used for the first stand. She came in five yards to the caller and I placed a nice shot .. After recovery , I noticed it zipped right though the body , but found her about 100 yards from the stand..
Next I wanted to compare with a full velocity round. I like this much better, the shot hit him hard and he dropped fast.. My ears felt the first shot slightly since I was in a wash, but the second one was fine. No hearing protection.
Any case, it was fun. The subsonic is not really practical, but if you had a scent dog and wanted more of a challenge, its worth a try..
If I can find a hollow point that is safe for the suppressor, that's the method I will choose...
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Posts: 437 | From: Tucson | Registered: Sep 2013
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted December 13, 2014 01:07 PM
Are HP's not recommended for suppressors?
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Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
Member # 4467
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posted December 13, 2014 01:39 PM
If you read the manuals, NO, HP's are not recommended ..
However, I found some threads that said ok.. At the range, I got distracted and started using HP's at full velocity and ended up shooting about 6 before I pulled my head out of my ass..
No apparent issues and accuracy was great.. Screwing one up would be painful..
[ December 14, 2014, 09:16 AM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
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Posts: 437 | From: Tucson | Registered: Sep 2013
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Lungbuster
Knows what it's all about
Member # 630
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posted December 13, 2014 02:22 PM
Why is it recommended not to use HPs? What could happen?
Is that a 300Black?
[ December 13, 2014, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: Lungbuster ]
Posts: 225 | From: Idaho | Registered: Mar 2005
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
Member # 4467
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posted December 13, 2014 04:09 PM
The pressures in the suppressor are very different than a bullet leaving a muzzle without one.. Using a frangible bullet type , it could breakup in the suppressor which of course would end the fun in a hurry..
I'm new to cans, so I'm still looking for hard evidence that using a high quality HP is fine.. I wouldn't be using those soft tips though!
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--- It's all simple if you know what you are doing ---
Posts: 437 | From: Tucson | Registered: Sep 2013
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
Member # 4467
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posted December 13, 2014 04:11 PM
Oh that's not the black out.. Folks using the black out are shooting 190 grains in the 900'ish range..
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Posts: 437 | From: Tucson | Registered: Sep 2013
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted December 13, 2014 07:23 PM
The hole in the baffles are not much bigger than bore size so if a bullet opens up or wobbles, a baffle strike could destroy the supressor.
What can did you go with?
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
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posted December 13, 2014 10:34 PM
Fur_ if you're looking to reload subsonic you might try the Sierra 63gr. SMP #1370 & H4895 powder. The Sierra #1370 bullet was designed to expand at lower velocities typical of the smaller case .224 center fires and H4895 powder is very useable for reduced power subsonic loads. Maybe give Hodgdon Tech a call for info.
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mike
Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
Member # 4467
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posted December 14, 2014 10:06 AM
Tom,
Still playing around.. But using black hills in 55 grain match HP appears to be a winner.. This is the round I used through the Trek suppressor and no issues so far..
In terms of subsonic, I think I found a winner.. Right to bear ammo is great stuff.. Great accuracy and completely safe and designed for suppressors using HP..
Just wish it had more kinetic energy.. Some days even a full velocity .223 rounds seems light for coyotes.
Right to bear ammo
Prune, thanks for the suggestions..
[ December 14, 2014, 10:07 AM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
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--- It's all simple if you know what you are doing ---
Posts: 437 | From: Tucson | Registered: Sep 2013
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted December 14, 2014 01:07 PM
I can't imagine a 223 pushing any bullet fast enough for baffle strike to be a problem but I guess it's an easy way out for the mfg's.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 14, 2014 07:06 PM
That's what I think. I built a suppressor a long time ago for use with my AR. Bullets were any reject that didn't perform in my 220Swift, including a number of HP designs. Nobody ever told me a HP wouldn't work? Of course, I wasn't blabbing about it much, since I was a little concerned about legalities.
I didn't notice any difference between one bullet design and another. I just didn't think much of the AR platform, in general, compared to my Swift. Sometimes, I needed two or three bullets on a fussing coyote, unheard of, with the Swift.
A brief history of my weapon of choice for predators began with the only centerfire I owned, a Mauser chambered in 270 Win. Then I got a model 660 in 6MM while I was having a 25'06Ackley built. Between those two, seemed to cover all the bases, until New Years Eve 1975 when they were stolen along with my Combat Commander, my entire arsenal.
Insurance screwed with me and left just enough $ to buy a Ruger 77 in the brand new, (at the time) 220Swift chambering. I used that Swift damned near exclusively for fifteen years, killed several thousand coyotes with it.
Then, providentially, I discovered the 22-250Ackley. Still have the Swift, pretty much relegated a loaner.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted December 14, 2014 07:56 PM
I've never shot a swift but now have the 22-250AI.
I remember reading about a govt trapper Frank Glaiser in AK shooting wolves and grizzly along with about everything else up there with his swift. He stated that with a little heavier built bullet, it would be the best grizzly killer out there.
I love my 22-250AI but think I'd grab a bigger gun if grizzly were on the agenda.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
Member # 4467
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posted December 15, 2014 05:31 PM
I'm going to retire the AR platform for coyotes.. I hate how loud it is to chamber.. Bullets scratch each time it's chambered.. The gun gets hung up on my clothes.. And I've had coyotes run with the sound of taking the safety off..
That 22-250AI sures has my interest right now! I can even use my trek suppressor on it. :-)
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Posts: 437 | From: Tucson | Registered: Sep 2013
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 15, 2014 06:53 PM
Fur, I think you are arriving at the place I was at many years ago. Like they say...
But, really, the chambering bullshit always bothered me, then unloading it seems to be too much trouble for some people and I don't like an AR with a chambered round in the truck.
You have hit on all of them, including snagging parts on clothing and it just being an awkward unbalanced rifle. Lots of safeties are loud enough that a predator can hear it but there doesn't seem to be a way that AR can be eased off, as some others can be.
I mean, I just read about some asshole lawyer suing Bushmaster and everybody he could think of in that deal back east, claiming it's a weapon of war, etc. I don't know how they ever gained the moral high ground, but when they lie with a straight face, and people who are afraid of guns believe every word, well, you start from in a hole and try to climb out of it, which can be hard to do.
And then, you sound like a smart boy to be considering a 22-250Ackley. This is a cartridge to outperforms the 220Swift in every measurable way, possibly the complete and total answer to the subject of coyote medicine we will ever see?
Good hunting. El Bee
[ December 15, 2014, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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R.Shaw
Peanut Butter Man, da da da da DAH!
Member # 73
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posted December 15, 2014 08:19 PM
quote:
And then, you sound like a smart boy to be considering a 22-250Ackley. This is a cartridge to outperforms the 220Swift in every measurable way, possibly the complete and total answer to the subject of coyote medicine we will ever see?
Exactly my thoughts as well.
Posts: 545 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted December 16, 2014 08:22 AM
Couldn't agree more about the 22-250 AI. Been shooting mine for about 3 years and it has been the best Coyote medicine as Leonard puts it that I have shot. I have found the 60 grain Berger hp with a stiff dose of RL-15 to work great at around 3800 fps.
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted December 16, 2014 05:20 PM
Chamber in the truck and rotate safety with left hand, like you're turning a key.
Some like AR's and some don't but for the most part, the ones people don't like, I don't either. A good carbine is hard to beat for close up stuff.
But then again, the 22-250AI seems to do everything well.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 16, 2014 06:37 PM
Although I can't warm up to the AR platform, I will defend it against those ignorant people that claim it is an assault rifle, for war, just for killing humans. It's just a semi-auto, legal for at least a hundred years.
But, it's really hard to find fault with a decent bolt action chambered in 22-250Ackley. I think I have been using one since the early mid 90's? There is just no flies on this puppy.
The performance is beyond 220Swift, and as a Swift user, the amazing part is, No neck trimming!
Using a Swift as long as I did, the cases grow and need constant trimming, you simply cannot ignore this fact, as a handloader.
Armed with this knowledge, it's pretty hard to understand that the 22-250AI never needs trimming to length; because of the shoulder design. Oh sure, you could convert a Swift to the Ackley shoulder but why?
At one time, (and I have been pounding the keyboard for more than twenty years) nobody ever heard of a 22-250Ackley. I modestly believe that I might deserve just a small amount of credit for the popularity of this terrific cartridge? All in favor, say aye.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
Member # 4467
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posted December 16, 2014 06:57 PM
I apologize if this has been discussed before, but can we discuss the pros and cons to 22-250 vs. 22-250AI..
What I know at this point is that the AI gives u at least an additional 150 ft/s... And 22-250 AI ammo is not stocked at sportsmans! Lol..
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted December 16, 2014 08:05 PM
I'm a long time vanilla 22-250 user and it's worse drawback is the case trimming. It can be pushed plenty fast but at the price of case life and the aforementioned case trimming.
Punch it out and you not only no longer need to trim cases but the cases take more powder, give more velocity and last longer.
Edit to add; while Ackly ammo isn't sold in stores, your Ackleyed gun shoots vanilla ammo just fine.
[ December 16, 2014, 08:08 PM: Message edited by: TOM64 ]
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Dave Allen
Hi, I'm SUPER DAVE, IN CHARGE OF Q STUFF (and Goat Leader) "I'm really not trying to be a dick".
Member # 3102
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posted December 17, 2014 12:06 PM
Mr Fur: this is just my humble opinion. If a guy doesn't reload and has no interest in doing so.
I would say just get a 22/250 it's a fine coyote round. When you start getting into custom barrels and all that stuff and you reload already.
It just makes sense in my mind to go Ackley, a little more horse power and has been mentioned no case trimming, plus a loaded round, with the blown out shoulder, looks friggin' sexy !!
Posts: 1986 | From: Jordan Valley Oregon | Registered: Aug 2008
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 17, 2014 12:36 PM
I don't know if it's "a little more horsepower"?
I have a 64 grain bullet @ 3925fps in my ackley. Most often, a 22-250Remington can get about 3700fps from a 55 grain bullet. That's significant.
And, if I was looking for pure speed, the Ackley can drive a 55grain bullet at 4200fps, quite easily.
But, yes, al things considered, it's a hand loading proposition. And, what's wrong with that?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Dave Allen
Hi, I'm SUPER DAVE, IN CHARGE OF Q STUFF (and Goat Leader) "I'm really not trying to be a dick".
Member # 3102
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posted December 17, 2014 12:43 PM
WOW, I stand corrected.
Thanks for that info Leonard. I didn't realize there was that much of a jump in horsepower if you will.
Posts: 1986 | From: Jordan Valley Oregon | Registered: Aug 2008
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted December 17, 2014 01:38 PM
You have to remember Leonard uses loooong barrels for his shooters too but even my 22" barrel will get the 150 fps boost easily. I'm shooting the 55 gr Nosler's at 3824 fps which matched my 50 gr load and I just quit looking after that.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 17, 2014 03:01 PM
Yeah, and I might be blessed with an exceptional barrel but no doubt, the Ackley version is a step up in class. Over the Swift, which is a better performer than the stock 22-250Remington.
But, if that's all you got, it will still kill coyotes. I'm working at beyond normal ranges and at night where it is sometimes hard to estimate correctly and a little flatter trajectory helps.
Don't worry about being "corrected" Dave. These things are on demand, when you need the information is soon enough. Lots of gaps in my knowledge and everybody else's.
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: also, that^ particular rifle is a truck gun, weighs 18.5 pounds with a benchrest stock. It's very comfortable to shoot at night. Doesn't get used all that much but when it does, they don't run off.
[ December 17, 2014, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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