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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on June 26, 2017, 07:37 AM:
Ok...........Question.
El Bee,
In your opinion, is misting at night the same as misting on a daylight stand ????
and,
When misting, do you watch upwind, downwind or both ???
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 01, 2017, 08:46 AM:
I'm not sure about the question? "Is misting at night the same as misting on a day stand????"
But, taking the question in simplest terms, misting is misting, period.
Now, if you want to talk about reasons and the relative value of misting on a day stand versus night hunting; then I can tell you that I don't use mist on day stands. That should question the validity of misting and the reasons for doing it.
Take somebody like Higgins. His motivation seems to be something different than just killing a coyote. He apparently likes to screw with their little brain, as I have heard him say on several occasions. He wants to check up the animal and hold it's attention for as long as he can just to demonstrate, for the sake of the camera, that misting causes a coyote to react strangely and change it's behavior. So, he have video of a coyote, directly downwind, just standing and staring at him all camo'ed up looking like a bush but the coyote perceives no threat because he is getting a snootful of confusing scent.
How that relates to what normal people do on a daylight stand is pretty distant from reality. Coyote responds to a stand due to sound, you lip squeak him and when he stops, you kill him. Period. Now, why would you need the scent to hold him for longer than necessary for taking a decent shot?
Anyway, trust me, there is very little reason to use mist on a day stand; under normal conditions. And normal motivations. 99% of the time, you are wasting your time. Especially since coyotes usually move much faster on a day stand and you don't want to be caught with a bottle in your hand rather than both hands controlling the rifle.
I could go on, but most people will get the picture; ya know?
As to the second question, as it pertains to night hunting, you slowly swing to light 360 degrees, for the entire stand. A perceptive person will figure out that it pays to watch all around you, regardless of whether or not you are employing mist. The idea that you shine your spotlight downwind waiting for the coyote to get there is just lame, for lack of a better word?
No, you scan everywhere, high and low and looking for eyes. This is hunting. In the way we developed the concept, it takes two people to safely hunt predators at night. One person hunts with the light and another person has nothing to do but hold the rifle ready for if and when an animal appears, and shoot it if he has a safe shot and the light man allows him to do it. Because, the light man is in charge and knows a lot more about conditions and the situational awareness involved. It's a close coordination between the light man and the shooter, but the shooter will call for the "burn" light and if the light man agrees, he will illuminate to target for the shooter to first identify and then shoot the animal. This takes some practice and teammanship, done correctly.
Now, to finally get to the heart of the question, you have to understand that a good percentage of coyotes will circle downwind, as they approach the stand. The light man sees this happening and usually, the only solution is to try to stop the animal while he a trying to get downwind. Because once he gets downwind, he won't even slow down, he has your scent and gallops into oblivion, never to be seen again. This scenario has been played a million times and usually, you are going to see eyes, see animals, but when they go downwind rather than come in on a string, all you can hope for is that they might check up for a hasty shot while they are circling. But they are stubborn little devils, and when they decide to go downwind to get your scent, they will not be deterred.
So, finally, we have a reason for misting because when the coyote arrives downwind, and he smells coyote, or rabbit, of something else that confuses him, he will usually stop for a bit and annalize the situation. This is your opportunity for a clean shot but don't expect him to stand there forever. Be ready because you know what he's doing and you know where he is going and when he will stop.
I have explained the concept elsewhere in great detail, so I'm just hitting the high points. Usually some half baked annalist will see flaws but I promise, take it for what it's worth. It's effective and will net you a few extra animals every night if you know what you are doing.
I have heard criticisms like, too much trouble, it stinks, and other flat earth reasons why it either won't work, or is a waste of time. That's for you to decide. Myself, I won't hunt at night without using scent. On daylights, as already said, you actually are wasting your time.
There is a message above, for a perceptive person like yourself. I hope you understand what I am telling you?
I could easily write a book on the subject but one or two actual experiences should educate the average person without going into excruciating detail. As I have already done.
Anything remains unclear? You're a long ways from being set up for night hunting and daylight misting is a waste of time and resources so I thing I have provided the answer for you.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on July 01, 2017, 02:43 PM:
Good information !!!!!
Thank you !!!!
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on July 01, 2017, 09:00 PM:
misting in the daylight gives me 2 or three more seconds at best. I've tried it all.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 02, 2017, 08:44 AM:
A little bit cryptic, Paul?
The thing is, I wouldn't say that misting on a daylight stand is a negative, if you don't get balled up with gear at the wrong time. Ideally, somebody else is doing the misting for you. In that case, I guess misting won't hurt and potentially, can help....a little. Like you say, "2 seconds" advantage.
I heard about a product some time ago. It was like a bug bomb, where you press a latching button and it's an aerosol, don't know how long it takes, but the entire contents are dispensed. Now, there is an eager beaver that just didn't quite get the concept! It's so easy to understand, but there are a lot of DINKS out there that just don't get it; I've tried to 'splain it in the simplest terms, but some people try to make it into a cure for ED, while it also turns a coyote into an idiot, so I marvel at the ideas and applications, mostly imagined.
Since 90% of the coyote hunters are afraid to try night hunting, misting has very little usefulness.
I just sold my special hunting truck to someone that very much gets it. This guy will kill so many coyotes at night, he might need to pull a trailer for whacking and stacking. I'm very pleased that the rig will be useful and used by a real professional. I'd laugh at him if I thought he was going to use those misting bottles I gave him for daylight stands. I'm not worried, and I'm looking forward to joining him this winter for a serious hunt in prime coyote country. It don't get any better.
There are times I wish that I never talked about Magic Mist more than 20 years ago. Like I say, it's so simple and yet people try to twist it into a worthless application. Maybe like vacuuming your living room carpet with a lawnmower? If I sound disgusted, it's because I am.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Grizz (Member # 4626) on July 10, 2017, 08:03 PM:
Good write up Leonard I agree. Rick
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 11, 2017, 08:31 PM:
Yeah, Rick. You're probably the only guy here that knows what we're talking about, as it relates to hunting at night from a hatch. Everybody else is using their imagination and has zero actual experience. I don't really blame them though. This is one of those things where seeing/observing one animal circle downwind is worth many hours of theoretical conversation.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on July 12, 2017, 07:46 AM:
Ok...............as long as we're on the subject;
Has anybody done any misting for big game animals (daylight) ???
Specifically, deer, elk & bear ?????
I'm not talking a couple of drops of 'deer lure' but rather a serious cloud of some kind of urine.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 12, 2017, 08:27 AM:
I think, "possibly?"
Effective or not, it's so hard to say, and I'll tell you why.
At night, you can see where the mist is going, and not always where you expect because of eddies following terrain and vegetation.
Daytime, I guess you can feel the breeze on your face, and you can toss some grass in the air, but it doesn't go ten feet before it hits the ground so you have no idea where your scent is actually going except a very general sense.
I don't know if misting in daylight would be more, or less effective than just setting up with a decomposing carcass, rather than mist.
Now, I have done that pretty effectively, when opportunity allows. I have carried a gray fox around on daylight stands and set it out in an elevated position close to my ecaller. You would be surprised how fast a coyote will zone in on the scent, and the sound and the visual of a gray fox draped over a decent size rock. The focus is 100%. And, I've lost a few grays that way, too. lol
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: one thing that is helpful to understand is that scent flows downwind in a narrow ribbon. I remember John Henry's video where he diagramed a spreading "cone" shaped scent, but with reflected light from a spotlight, you can easily see that the misted scent stays in a compact cloud all the way downwind, if your mist is a very fine airisol, that will float 50/100 yards downwind before it falls to the ground; hard to say when the wind is variable? But, it does not spread out in a cone shape, and the only way to witness this is misting on a dark night with a moderate breeze.
[ July 12, 2017, 08:37 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on July 12, 2017, 09:03 AM:
KoKO there is a product called buck bomb its a can of crap with a latching nozzle, have never used it just seems like a good way to slip a few dollars out of your pocket ! Misting in the daylight was a lot of trouble for a small return. did it work , yes was it worth it , no , in my opinion! lots of smelly stuff bouncing around in the truck. I'm sure at night its great I have no experience at night.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 12, 2017, 12:16 PM:
It's because of their behavior, Paul.
Daytime, they are hard charging, I've seen them stumble and fall ass over tea kettle. Sometimes they see what's wrong, and they don't need to go downwind.
At night, I don't want to exaggerate, but really, they all have a deliberate urge to circle downwind. And, sometimes they don't. But, plan on it. And be ready when they do.
That's all I can tell you. Like I said above, all it takes is observing this phenomena one time and that's all you need to know, to understand how to use it to your advantage.
What I can't understand is how the national interest evolved the way it did. When we started, the entire emphasis was on night hunting because it is so much more productive.
Coyotes hunt at night. I hope that's not a surprise? When you call in the daytime, you literally have to wake them up. And, sometimes, they don't give a shit.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on July 12, 2017, 01:17 PM:
I understand all that Leonard I just don't night hunt found misting to be too much effort for the payoff day time that is ! I would mix 3 or 4 different urines and some coyote blood. a lot of work and expense for a couple of seconds on a down wind coyote. I liked it much better when I would grab a rifle and a hand call go out and shoot off my knees. now I need a chair a caller and a good supply of batteries still throw in a hand call now and then.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on July 12, 2017, 01:28 PM:
Paul,
I think that it's in our human DNA that the more complicated we make some simple thing, the smarter we must be. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on July 12, 2017, 01:35 PM:
Oh.................
and the scent bombs;
The last I knew, anything with Cervid (deer) urine in it was illegal here in Az.
That may or may not have changed since the last time I looked.
I always thought that one of those buck bombs would be nice to set off under somebody's exhaust system that 'parks poorly'. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on July 12, 2017, 05:19 PM:
I trust you meant to say they "also" hunt at night? Ive seen many, many coyotes doing something that looked like hunting during the day. Sticking their noses in gopher holes, pouncing up and down snatching mice, family groups grazing lazily on a hillside eating grasshoppers and chasing rabbits to think they only hunt at night?
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on July 13, 2017, 03:49 AM:
quote:
Daytime, they are hard charging, I've seen them stumble and fall ass over tea kettle. Sometimes they see what's wrong, and they don't need to go downwind.
At night, I don't want to exaggerate, but really, they all have a deliberate urge to circle downwind. And, sometimes they don't. But, plan on it. And be ready when they do.
In my experience from calling back this way, our coyotes seem to react the other way around. In the daylight, they'll come like they're walking naked on a broadway stage covered with eggshells to get the wind.
At night, they'll streak thru open fields, run up/across an asphalt road, & generally respond much more aggressively...
Makes ya wonder if/how "misting" might work back here? Dunno if I have the gumption to try, just makin' conversation. As it goes, the way I see it is simple. If a coyote gets to where it can smell you before you can get a shot at it, then you didn't set your stand up correctly. That may not always be possible, and the wind can always shift/eddy & betray your plan, but that kinda trap is something I strive to set when selecting a stand location. If I can't, then I just don't make that stand...
[ July 13, 2017, 03:52 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 13, 2017, 05:26 AM:
Okay, Vic. I'm guilty of making a blanket statement, upon which you jumped on, exactly like a duck on a June Bug!.
That's it! Insomnia! There's always that unfortunate critter that didn't get a rabbit last night, like everybody else, and now he's sniffing around, hoping to get lucky.
And, same to you, Fred! Your coyotes are so fucked up they don't know how to pour piss out of a boot without reading the instructions printed on the bottom.
However, there is a grain of truth in what you say because a coyote is anything if not adaptable. Such as, those guys that can't get a response from their howling to save their life. Some coyotes respond to pressure by dumbing up; not my fault. As usual, I blame Foxpro!
And, I stumbled upon the truth multiple decades ago. Pressured coyotes will change their behavior. The first thing I think of, when hunting at night and they ain't responding...and I know they are out there. <lightbulb> These coyotes are hunting their heavy cover in the daylight hours! Huge revelation!
Non of this golden advice is "graven in stone". There may be a nugget or two that the smarter members of the Peanut Gallery will ferret out and find useful. The rest of you, keep finding fault, that's so normal in human nature.
I'm just blowing smoke. LB
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 13, 2017, 10:33 AM:
And now youse guys got me all butt hurt! I'm ready to take my ball!
Be assured, there is some value in this thread.
Posted by Grizz (Member # 4626) on July 13, 2017, 08:45 PM:
Only issue I have with misting is finding a sprayer will last a while and not fail and leak rabbit piss down your arm. Seems like the urine is hard on seals and plastic. I've tried all types. Rick
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on July 14, 2017, 06:09 AM:
Grizz : ditto got tired of the wife hosing me down in the yard before she would let me in my own home
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on July 14, 2017, 06:13 AM:
For clarity's sake...
I wasn't looking to find fault, Leonard. I dang sure know you've got a metric shit-ton more experience than I do & appreciate when you 'old gents' let loose with it. I'm always keen to glean! Was just sharing an observation of mine to maybe throw something tangible into the mix.
Hope you wouldn't take my commentary as 'fault'! Was nothing more than a couple pennies from one of the few members on here that hunt coyotes in this AO. And as you mentioned, "adaptation" of coyotes is what makes them who they are. They learn how to function best in a given AO, and there ain't much more to it, than that...
Besides having a bit of 'wolf DNA' mixed in, that is! But that's a topic for another conversation...
Mist away, gents!
[ July 14, 2017, 06:13 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 14, 2017, 07:44 AM:
It's not you, Fred. It's that Coyote God who never invites me to hunt with him anymore.
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on July 14, 2017, 07:58 AM:
Come on down! Im back in the swamp now......yer welcome to find a coyote here, but it's a tough nut to crack!
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 14, 2017, 11:16 AM:
That's exactly what I say to my new girlfriend: "A tough Nut to Crack". What is she saving it for?
But, oh sure! The only reason I'd go to Fort Walton Beach is for a ChocTaw Burger at the A&W.
PS They used to drink Carling Black Label.
(A left handed invite if I ever saw one!)
Good hunting. El Bee
PPS remember me to your better half!
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