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Right now I am placing the caller ten yards in front of me, like I said with the wind in my face.

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First you are above, looking down with the wind in your face, right?

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This sounds like a miserable, lonely, and not very productive way to spend an evening, but what do I know?

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So you suggest putting the caller upwind of me and watching the downwind side?

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Yep, caller upwind on/or close to a game trail crossing the powerline cut. Especially so if the snow is deep and the game trail is rutted out from traffic. A coyote ain't gonna 'break trail' if it doesn't hafta...
Sit far enough back to where you can cover & kill an approach on the trail from either block of woods into the cut. Of course, an uphill vantage point is a nice bonus!

If one is gonna circle downwind, it's gonna hit your approach track and booger anyway, so like Leonard said, you've gotta pretty much concede that eventuality. Heck, I've had a coyote circle me at night and actually POOP in my boot tracks!!!

Finally, worry about watchin' where you can actually KILL the coyote! That's "Coyote 102", as it's been re-beaten into my head as of a recent hunting trip (Thanks KJ & Jimzy!)
 

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Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on February 04, 2011, 01:13 PM:
 
Am I missing something about caller placement? Doesn't he need the caller right next to him so the animals look towards the light and he can pick up their eyes?

I hunt powerline cuts exactly like you described, although during the daytime. I like to be in the middle of it to try to force a coyote to the edge of the timber, or into the clearcut, no matter what side of the cut he approaches from. There is usually a good stump, or the power pole itself to put my back against. I also agree with the others that you have to give up the uphill or dowhill side if the wind is blowing the same direction as the powerlines. If it is not windy, you are going to still have thermals moving air down the hill at night.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 04, 2011, 01:52 PM:
 
That's a good point if using a spotlight. Having an animal look at the source of the sound, if it is not where you are, that means you need to look for movement or the shape of the body, and maybe he will give you a little flash? I sorta thought we were talking about snow-cover and the animal would stand out wherever he was?

Still sounds like not much fun, but I have never spent much time in Jersey. That might be a wonderful never to be forgotten evening, in New Jersey, for all I know?

Good hunting. LB

PS, don't trip over any discarded bodies!
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 04, 2011, 01:59 PM:
 
Leonard a few years ago a female body was found off the highway, near to where we are talking about. It was a young female, apparently a prostitute if I recall.

Yes for now I guess with snow on the ground, but generally speaking, this whole issue with the wind and the caller at night baffles me. I have been trying to hunt windless nights to get around it, but the season in NJ will end mid March and I don't want to limit my possibilities too much.
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on February 04, 2011, 05:03 PM:
 
I`m probably not as well versed as some at night calling but I have spent a hell of a bunch of nights with a spotlight in my hand.

Wind aint all that important at night, see the eyes, light em up, kill em. It`s a bitch to do by yourself if your on foot, and a shotgun to boot, yuk. Can you use a slug?

tlbradford is 100% correct about caller placement, why would you want the coyote to look elsewhere? Been there, done that, doesnt work. Another little tidbit...the closer the spotlight is to your head or line of site the easier it is to see eyes at a distance, in the brush, etc. Sounds stupid but I`ve experimented with this enough to prove it to myself beyond any doubt.

Find a partner that can shoot. Have fun.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 04, 2011, 05:13 PM:
 
No slugs either JD.

Thanks for the advice guys. Any other tips would be appreciated.
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 04, 2011, 06:37 PM:
 
Nick, point is that there are no hard & fast rules for caller placement at night,or day!
Regardless, you've got to tailor your setup based on:

the wind
your avenue of approach
hand calling or e-calling?
cover & terrain and how they will potentially affect a coyote's approach to your calls.
your firearm

Forgive me for elaborating on the obvious, but please allow me to briefly touch on each (again) to help explain why I offered that potential stand setup...

Wind: Coyotes still use their nose at night. For me, to assume they don't would be foolhardy. I've seen too many circling tracks in the snow on my walk back out to think otherwise! They circle at night. Trust me, they do...

Your approach: If your scent drifts down into where a coyote may be, he's boogered & gone! Also, if one circles & cuts your entrance trail, he's gone too. Hence, keep the wind in yo' face and don't push in too far to where you can get backdoored...

e-calling: I'm assuming you're not handcalling. If you are, I'd face to the right side of the cut if you're a righty and keep checkin' over your left shoulder for one coming across. That'll be an easy enough swing with the shottie...

Cover & terrain: A powerline cut is obviously more open than the woods surrounding it. Since you don't know for sure which side a coyote may approach from, it'd be in your best interests to cover both! That's why I recommended putting the caller slightly upwind of your position and in the center of the open cut. If you've got the call in your lap, you can't effectively cover that 180 degrees of both potential approaches. And by default, you'll be covering a kamikaze approach from right up the cut.

So then, if ya put the call just 10-20 yds out front, you'll still easily be able to pick up eyes on the approach with your light, the angle is not too much to miss them. Coyotes are ALWAYS looking around and it's easy to catch a 'flash' of eyes, as Leonard mentioned before. The only area you can't cover is the one you just walked through, which is already TOAST...
Heck, if you've got any moon up and clear skies, you prolly don't even need a light with that blanket of white for contrast. Just listen for them to come crunching along in the snow, or catch movement. Then light 'em up to confirm before the shot and whack 'em!

Also, a good bit of snow on the ground will indeed funnel a coyote's movements to a used game trail. When the snow gets real deep upstate, coyotes run the snowmobile trails, as do many other critters. Animals favoring the path of least resistance is not a new concept. So stay focused on the established trails that cross the cut...

Your firearm: Given the fact that you're toting a shotgun, obviously there's a limiting factor to how far you can effectively put a coyote down. If ya had a rifle, you're availed alot more options for caller distance & placement. Again, you only want that caller far enough away from you so that you can cover both potential approaches for the adjoining woods...

Finally, same as all stand choices, I'm hedging my bet that a coyote will do what I anticipate it might. That sure don't happen all the time, but I do my best to SWAG how a coyote will approach.
As callers, that's the game we play, and it's NEVER the same game! Ain't that why we keep after it???

Good luck, dude! I can think of alot worse ways to spend a winter night...

[ February 04, 2011, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 04, 2011, 07:35 PM:
 
We're stuck with stupid shotgun only with #6 shot at night here. Me and a friend was gonna kill em all one year and hunted quite a bit, here's what I found compared to my Texas hunts with a rifle.

First the shotgun with #6 shot needs them close, like 15-20 yards close and you better be shooting till they holler uncle. #4 birdshot ain't gonna be much better but it will work.

They almost always head downwind at night and ours would cut around about 75-100 yards. Putting the caller upwind would work but you won't see the animal's eyes, been there done that. Keep the caller close and hope for one with a cold or a dumb one.

Now hunting with a rifle and watch them come in, circle to the downwind side and stop them for a shot at 100 yards or so.

I won't hunt with a shotgun at night anymore but it can be done, just alot more work than a day hunt.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 04, 2011, 08:46 PM:
 
If it's real windy, that tendency to always circle downwind is not a sure thing. Based on what was described, I wouldn't be concerned about wind, at all. Dead calm, a coyote is smart enough to know that he is wasting his time figuring out where downwind IS. Same with high winds. If you are on high ground and calling downwind, most of the time, they won't detect you because your scent is blowing way over their heads. If you decide to call into the wind, which, as far as I'm concerned, is not as good of a choice as is calling downhill and downwind, you are fighting the sound projection. You need a CS24L. Otherwise, you probably should stand at the very top with a buckethead. I'm not kidding. Rotate, watch both sides and keep the caller right next to you.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 04, 2011, 08:55 PM:
 

quote:

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watch both sides and keep the caller right next to you.

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Koodoo's Leonard. Now youre catching on...
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 04, 2011, 09:32 PM:
 
Wow! What praise coming from Mr Coyote, himself!

I might lay on my back and piddle myself! Thank you, thank you, thank you!!

In fact, every post of yours, I print and keep in a three ring notebook so I can review them in the field before every stand. They are so helpful and I appreciate it SO MUCH!

Yea, that's a good one, keep it "next" to me! I'm surprised that I thought of it all by myself!

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 04, 2011, 09:45 PM:
 
Youre welcome Leonard..

I know you have the caller close by when night hunting so you can pick up there eye when they come in.. Reason for the koodoo's is for mentioning it..

I know from calling them here at home at night without a lite I need to get them as close to the caller as possable so I can pick them up in the scope.. Since 49 is useing a shotgun he would need to do the same thing since his range is limited.. If 49 had the caller placed away from him say 30 yds and the coyote come from the far side and checks up at 50 yds from the caller that would leave him with a 80 yd shot with the shotgun..

[ February 04, 2011, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on February 05, 2011, 12:04 AM:
 
I would keep the caller close to me but not right next to me at night. Coyotes are likely to come from any direction in the dark. Pick good shooting lanes and why would you even want a scope at night, especially with a shotgun... sheesh?

Has anyone noticed that Leonard and Tim are the two highest posters on this board? Hmmnnn?
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 05, 2011, 12:14 AM:
 
Yeah, that generally means we know a lot, right?

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 05, 2011, 12:46 AM:
 

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Pick good shooting lanes and why would you even want a scope at night, especially with a shotgun... sheesh?

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Never mentioned 49 needing a scope.
On the other hand I hunt at night with a rifle over snow with no lights..
If you don't use a scope youre not going to see alot of coyotes with the naked eye.. With no moon or very little exspect to see maybe 50 yds if youre lucky. On a full moon night with no cloud cover you can make out a coyote at around 300 yds or a little less.. But you new that. Right????

Edit to add. I did try a lite a couple of times over snow, would rather go without one... Too many shadows, glare...

[ February 05, 2011, 12:49 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 05, 2011, 03:07 AM:
 
Thanks for all the replies guys.

I went out again last night. The wind was strong in my face, and every now and then I would get a blast from the right. My scorpion was dead, as I didn't charge up the batteries from the previous night (I didn't think I needed to?) so I used a hand caller with some distress sounds and a few howls mixed in for good measure. Nothing...not even a howl response. Due to the thick layer of ice on the snow I must have sounded like a Mack truck coming through, which I am sure didn't help matters any.

Fred, I will look for some game trails crossing the powerline cut. Gonna take a walk as soon as this ice breaks up. It is tuff walking around here now wherever there is snow.

Tom, #6 six shot only at night out there? Wow that stinks. I dumped a load of #4 shot into a coyote years ago at this same place on a day hunt, which I never recovered. Talking about using a rifle, funny thing is I actually could do so safely at this spot. I mean there is nothing around for miles except for the TV station which will always be at my back.

Leonard, I can try and call the other side of the mountain, which will put me calling down wind, if you think that will help. The wind here in NJ can be crazy. I know how often it changes direction from target shooting with rifles.

Whoops, the dog just got up. To be continued...

Frd
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 05, 2011, 03:56 AM:
 
Okay I'm back.

Tim, I could actually get away with no lights here with snow, except on my SG for shooting. I use a headlamp and keep it on the medium or low setting. I would like to see some eyes if possible.

Nikon. I don't like to keep the caller right next to me. The loudness bothers my ears, and I would rather be able to see it if something comes in directly from the side. But I obviously am speaking from my lack of experience night calling.

Well anyways, I am getting frustrated and a little disgusted. I am thinking about going back to day calling next year for the winter, at least in NJ. PA I would probably keep hunting at night. I guess we will see how the rest of the season goes.

Thanks again for all the reponses.
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 05, 2011, 05:10 AM:
 
What kind of headlamp are you using?

If it ain't throwing a tight spot, or at least has a shroud on the bell of the lens, you're wasting your time!
When using a headlamp,most any type of flood lens is gonna bleed light down onto you, & especially so if you're sitting. Your arms, legs & gun are positioned out IN FRONT of the light source,no good! If ya tilt ya melon down to look at your reomote, guess what? That light stuck on your head just lit you & your gun up like friggin' Times Square!

That's why most predator hunting lights ideally are shrouded to keep the light from illuminating your position. And that's exactly why I most often use a high capacity hand held flashlight to pan/scan. Or, on rare occasions, I'll drag out the 170 mounted to a swivel monopod.
With the flashlight, I keep the business end of it out beyond even my gun barrel. This keeps most all of the reflected light off of ME and in the critter's EYES where it belongs...

So....with your headlamp on all the time, and you panning around, you may be drawing attention to, and exposing your position to any approaching critter. Just a thought, since I'm stuck home doing plumbing work & not out hunting

[ February 05, 2011, 05:11 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 05, 2011, 06:36 AM:
 
I understand what you are saying Fred and you are absolutely right. To compensate for this I try to stay as still as possible, scanning with my eyes, and keeping the shotgun pointed in the direction of the caller in anticipation of a quick shot. Hopefully, whatever comes in will head toward the caller and into my view.

I usually try to let the caller go for around 45 minutes to an hour, without moving and without changing sounds. Sometimes it is so I get so sick of the same sound playing over and over again I have to make movement in order to change it.
 

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Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on February 05, 2011, 09:40 AM:
 
I'm with you Nick, I don't like a loud caller rattling in my ear either... guess it's old age or something.

I usually don't turn the call up or even use loud hand calls at night. Sound seems to carry farther at night since there isn't as much background noise.

I use a 4-cell, 1watt, LED Maglite with a shroud made from a dark plastic bottle. Works great for me.

Moonlight on snow is when night hunting is at it's best around here!!! We just got another 6-8" of snow this morning and I'm itching to go... right after I shovel a few drives and plow several apartment complexes and business lots.
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on February 05, 2011, 11:13 AM:
 
Tim WTF is a "Koodoos"? I`m so impressed at how far Leonard has come under your guidance, it seems as if he`s finally starting to pay attention & learn something. Wow!!!

Anyway, Knockemdown made a good point about the light "splash" Its tough when you`re on foot and by yourself, compare what LB has shared in the past about hunting from a rig & then try to make that all come together on foot with no help from another person. Damn tough aint it. Its still enough fun to keep going out though.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 05, 2011, 12:16 PM:
 

quote:

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Its still enough fun to keep going out though.

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Amen...
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 05, 2011, 12:21 PM:
 
Don't think I'm ungrateful!, JD!

Same with lights. Shrouds are such a basic night hunting 101 issue that I completely overlooked the possibility that they/it was being misused.

Seriously, what is being discussed is such a waste of....no, no, you guys hang in there and enjoy yourselves.

And, another thing. What is the rationale/justification for hunting the same spot on successive nights? Are suitable locations in such short supply? Just saying......
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 05, 2011, 12:38 PM:
 
Yes Leonard hunting spots out here are more or less hard to come by. I no longer have private property to hunt on here, so I have been going on state land. There are a couple more spots I would like to try but some of that means I will be back in the woods. I was trying to take some of the advice given here and get out of the woods a bit for night calling.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 05, 2011, 01:47 PM:
 
Well, They paved Paradise, put in a parking lot, didn't they? cut all the trees, put 'em in a tree museum, and then they charged the people a dollar and a half just to see 'em. Don't it always seem as though, that you don't know what you got 'til it's gone. (all together now) PAVED PARADISE, PUT IN A PARKING LOT!

I think civilization is heading west. In a hundred years, my grandkids will be hunting clear cuts on successive nights.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on February 05, 2011, 02:36 PM:
 
LB, I`m shocked, why would you say night hunting is a waste of time I gave up on doing it by myself, too much equip & too difficult to make all the stars line up just right, but trying to convince a buddy to stay up all night calling coyotes with me is damn near as difficult, a hell of a lot more productive with one guy on the light & one on the gun.

TA isn`t responding!?!? This could mean only one thing....The wireless internet isn`t working at the gay bar this afternoon.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 05, 2011, 03:05 PM:
 
....or, there's a serious overcrowding in the Men's Room.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 05, 2011, 03:10 PM:
 
....or, the Vaseline is frozen stiff?
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 05, 2011, 03:11 PM:
 
Bet those high top boots are a serious "chick" magnet?
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 05, 2011, 03:14 PM:
 
Tim, just a little good natured kidding, don't be mad at JD.
 

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Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on February 05, 2011, 06:22 PM:
 
I don't think Leonard was saying night hunting is a waste of time, JD. I read it to say that this rudimentary discussion is what is wasteful. While it may well be to those well versed in night hunting, like Leonard, I think it has some value. I have exactly zero experience calling at night, so reading the different strategies and suggestions is entertaining and educational to some of us. From what I gather, 49 has little (no offense) experience period, and he seems to be getting the help he asked for.

I know this for sure, getting out in the dark with some of you guys who know the ins and outs of swinging a light would be a hoot. The mention of warning gizmos set up to tell the driver what to do when, knocked me for a loop.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 05, 2011, 07:11 PM:
 
There are a number of not very high tech signals, Jimaniz. Describing a circle in front of the road tells the driver that you want him to turn around. Holding the beam down the road and flicking it slightly to the left or right tells the driver which fork to take. Tipping the light slightly up and forward directly down the road repeatedly means go a little faster. Wig wagging sideways means slow down until I quit wagging. Wagging right across the hood, means stop the truck and cut the engine. After making a stand, ready to move, pointing your light down the road and flipping it up a couple times means start the truck and let's go.

These are ways of simplifying communication between whoever is in back and the driver with only the essential hunting spotlight. When you think about a momentary contact pushbutton in the back connected to a single light installed on the dash, there are a bunch of instructions that can be conveyed up front. A blinking light means something different than a steady light as does when the steady light goes out. You can even tell the driver to back up until you blink again, just with a series of codes predetermined and agreed upon. A second colored light can mean a whole different set of instructions. All of these things, done at a critical moment can make all the difference in success and failure. I can't count the animals that have been taken because of these special signals between those in the back and those in front. This stuff is all second nature, after you have been night hunting for a while. One thing that really never worked is vocal communications via some sort of intercom.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 05, 2011, 08:01 PM:
 
Thats ok Leonard.. I read somewhere on the Net that J.D. dresses up like one of those village people cowboys with azzless chaps and intertains the sheep on the week-ends..

J.D. keep sniffing that "Yote tote" and youre gonna get permanent brain damage....
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 05, 2011, 09:09 PM:
 
Thanks for all the help guys. Though I am getting discouraged I won't be giving up.

I am gonna take some of Leonard's advice this week and try calling a new area. I will keep you posted if anything develops.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 05, 2011, 09:35 PM:
 
49 you mentioned you have to walk in on crunchy ice or snow. Is there any reason why you could'nt call youre way in along the power lines???? Not sure how far the next road is but I know of some guys that place a second vehicle farther down the line and then call as they work there way through..

Hang in there, it will come together.. .
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on February 05, 2011, 09:49 PM:
 
Let me tell you a little story TA....once upon a time there were 2 wanna-be self promoting coyote hunters, one from MN. & one from TX, just for the sake of this story lets give them fictitious names like say....Tim & Byron, Tim & Byron were out getting an extra 15 years of experience of coyote calling one afternoon when they came across a sheep with its head stuck in the fence. When Byron saw this he immediately ran over to it, pulled his pants down & started gettin busy with that sheep, when he finished he turned to his top student & said "Tim, you want some of that" to which Tim replied " you damn right I do" so he walked over beside the sheep pulled his pants down, bent over, and stuck his head through the fence................
 

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Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on February 05, 2011, 09:58 PM:
 
Oh WOW!!!!

Now that's funny!!!!!!!! That casts a visual that won't soon leave any of us! I guess if he generated enough friction Tim might actually see the light!
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on February 06, 2011, 08:38 AM:
 
True story.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 06, 2011, 10:03 AM:
 
If that's a true story, they ain't nothing but gol dang preverts! I ain't about to shake hands with either one, again, either. At least have the decency to get married! Wait. That ain't right, they both ARE married, but not to each other.

So, that's how Byron accumulated his experience, helping sheep over the fence? Tim, stay away from him, he sets a bad example. One thing's for sure, farm boys will always be farm boys. EEK!

TX for bringin' this 2 our attention, JD. You da bomb!

Yo Tim, I'm yanking your moderator!
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 06, 2011, 10:48 AM:
 
For the record I've never met Byron, not even sure of who he is.. I think he is a good friend of Shaws, he use to talk about him all the time, but like i said I've never met him..

[ February 06, 2011, 10:51 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 06, 2011, 11:20 AM:
 
Thanks for all the advice guys.

It's good to hear differing perspectives and approaches that would be taken by various hunters on the subject of night calling, and calling in general.
 

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Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on February 12, 2011, 09:15 PM:
 

quote:

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There are a number of not very high tech signals, Jimaniz.

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