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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 01, 2010, 11:06 AM:
Charter Member #1
Posted August 27, 2009 06:01 PM Hide Post
I) Shot In the Dark
Steve Craig-
Marking a downed critter is always important. You just have to try to find something that is different about the area around your dead critter. It might be a weed clump, a bush, a bald spot near him. Anything that is out of place can serve as a starting point to locate your downed critter.
When 2 guys are hunting, one should stay and hold the light on the downed critter and the other plays fetch! If your critter runs off after the shot, you should keep your light on the spot you last saw him and go to him. If after searching around and no blood or hair is found then mark that spot and come back in the daylight.
Shot placement is the same as the daytime and you should shoot for the boiler room. One reason why I prefer a WHITE spot for shooting.
I) Shot In the Dark
Danny Batastini-
By all rights, if you are hunting at night, you should be hunting with a partner. Not only is it a safety matter, it is a proven, successful technique. It is the lighter's responsibility to mark the downed animal. Pick out a bush, a rock, a fence post or anything that will put you in the area of the downed animal. Trust me, everything looks the same in the dark.
The lighter shows the shooter where the animal is at. Now it becomes the shooter's responsibility to guide the lighter to the animal.
Shot placement is pretty much the same as for day hunting. A right behind the shoulder shot is usually the best as it usually hits the heart or lungs, dropping the animal in it's tracks. You don't always get those kinds of shots so don't wait for the perfect shot, just take your best one.
I) Shot In the Dark
Leonard Bosinski-
This is a key issue. Many animals are not recovered because of poor habits.
In the first place, at the shot and when you hear the hit, you and the partner need to focus on where the animal is, and agree. Mental notes, such as "left of the dead tree", or whatever other landmark you notice are extremely helpful if the animal drops out of sight.
As a rule, I don't move the rifle until I am sure that the light man has him well marked. If you have the time and you don't have another animal in front of you, a small, whispered conference is worthwhile.
Of course, we have been using a laser for many years. I hunted with Gerald Stewart a while back, maybe 6-8 years ago, and he was very impressed with the special bracket and the application. Once it is locked down, you can turn it off and save the batteries and then turn it on when you conclude the stand. The laser allows you to precisely mark the animal and then continue hunting. It also allows the shooter to walk right out to the exact spot without shouted instructions from the light man who can keep working the light looking for late arrivals.
Shot placement should be a lung shot if at all possible. If he is facing you, (and you have a positive ID, then hold on the eyes. Pretty basic, really.
If you have a runner, without snow cover, I have one rule of thumb. If a coyote runs, walks or crawls 800 yards, you will never find him. You have to learn to judge the amount of blood and bowel movements at the point of the shot. Naturally, a good blood trail is encouraging. When there is not much and they start getting spread out every ten feet or so, that's bad. On the other hand, if he is painting the brush with smeared blood, that's a very good indication of an animal that is dead and just don't know it, yet.
I will give you a real good tip on cats. If he goes downhill, he is bad hurt. A cat will climb to escape, every time, if he can. If the trail is going downhill, you have a very good chance of walking up to a dead cat. I've never seen it fail. Good sign. If the tracks are heading uphill, good luck because he probably needs another bullet and you can't do that on foot, with a flashlight. Bad deal.
Posts: 6159 | Location: MPH Headquarters | Registered: September 02, 2005
Ignored post by Jrbhunter posted August 27, 2009 06:01 PM Show Post
Jrbhunter
Charter Member #1
Posted August 27, 2009 06:08 PM Hide Post
J) Calling In General
Steve Craig-
I have found that I generally call more open areas at night than I do in the daylight. Just makes for easier recovery of downed animals as well as easier shots. Brush can be a real pain at night.
As far as sounds….I use the same as I do in the daylight.
Stand length is about the same as daylight. Usually 12 to 15 minutes for fox and coyotes and 20 to 30 for cats in open areas and 12 minutes for cats in the brush and woods. The most important thing is to identify your target before shooting. Another reason for using a WHITE light for shooting.
J) Calling In General
Danny Batastini-
Same sounds, same stand lengths as day hunting. It is all the same except you are doing it at night and you're looking for eyes instead of bodies. Don't shoot at eyes though, wait until you see a body to identify the animal. You need to set the caller (electronic) next to you so that you can see the animal's eyes approaching. If you set the caller out 20 or 30 eyes, you may not see the animal at all since he is looking towards the source of the sound. Same with hand calls, the shooter and the caller need to be near each other. That way you are assured to see the eyes that are approaching. If the animal is responding to your call, let him come in to a comfortable distance before you shoot. In other words, don't shoot him 150 to 200 yards out while he is still coming in.
J) Calling In General
Leonard Bosinski-
There are many differences between hunting at night and daylight stands.
The clothing, naturally. Day time is all about the camo, opening and closing doors silently, walking out as quietly as possible, etc. At night, it gets unbelievably cold, it wears at your resistance, just saps all the juice from ya. You need very warm layered clothing and a lot of it. And, don't forget to eat, lots of liquids too.
The guns are completely different. Daylight guns look more like small bore deer rifles and night rigs are heavy full custom target jobs, at least the way we do it.
As a general rule, I like to make twelve minute day stands and extend them to perhaps twenty minutes as noon approaches. At night, you can pick up eyes way out there and if they aren't there, and you don't see anything in about seven minutes or so, it's time to move on. In moderately heavy cover, you can add at least five minutes after every killed animal under the theory that where there is one, there could quite possibly be another, and another.
But, here's the deal. You can manage at least twenty stands a night if you have the routine down pat. In my opinion, it's a numbers game, the more stands you make, the more animals you will see and the more you will kill. And, often as not, there is no dead time, unlike daylights where the first three hours are the most productive and then it really slows down, action wise. In fact, if you can only hunt part of the night, pick the last three hours after the moon goes down and before the sun comes up.
As with day stands, when you are in 'em, don't drive out of 'em. Shorten up the distances between stands to perhaps a quarter of a mile, even if you have been shooting. They can come in pretty bold at night. Normally, if everything looks the same, I like to make stands every half mile or so.
Don't judge a stand the way you do in the daylight. Animals can be out in open alfalfa fields chasing rabbits so that's a good spot at night even though it's wide open with no available cover for a mile in any direction. I have pulled cats out of flat featureless terrain that looks like the back side of the moon.....at night. I like to set up with elevation, if there is any? You can see them coming a mile away, literally.
It's always good to hunt around cattle. Have not noticed that coyotes like to hang around horses, but cattle and coyotes seem to like the same stuff. They like houses, too. Sometimes, every coyote within miles is right out in the pastures close to the house.
With sounds, everybody has their favorites. I think the specific sound is not all that important; use what you have confidence in. Personally, I like gravelly jack rabbit and gray fox pup, puppy whines, kittens, woodpecker, nothing very secret. You should have a "go to" sound for hung up animals, like rodent squeals.
I like to begin a stand with a lone howl and do it at irregular intervals throughout the stand. I also like to begin with a handcall series and then switch to electronics.
I like constant sound, none of this pauses stuff. Some people have this theory that the pauses forces the animal to hunt more. Yeah, it does, they do. Every time you stop the sound, they will check up. Why give them a chance to think about it? With constant sound, I find the animal a lot more eager, they romp in closer, before remembering to check the wind.
If the action slows, I would rather try another area than extend the length of the stand. That's easy for me to say when I have practically unlimited BLM Land at my disposal, but I know that some people have limited resources. But, if you can move, do it.
Posts: 6159 | Location: MPH Headquarters | Registered: September 02, 2005
Ignored post by Jrbhunter posted August 27, 2009 06:08 PM Show Post
Jrbhunter
Charter Member #1
Posted August 27, 2009 06:12 PM Hide Post
K) Predator Behavior
Steve Craig-
I really don’t believe coyotes and fox act or respond any differently at night. If I were pushed for a difference, I would have to say that GENERALLY…….coyotes tend to come into the stand a little closer. Fox and bobcats about the same as always.
K) Predator Behavior
Danny Batastini-
Coyotes do react to calling differently at night than during the day. Day calling, 70% of the coyotes will head downwind on you. At night, 99% head downwind. At night coyotes tend to become more cautious as they approach the sound. Bobcats tend to lack much brain power. They rely on eyesight and sound better than they do their nose. They are not hard to call and they are not hard to kill. Bobcats pretty much react the same either day or night. Gray Fox, on the other hand, are somewhat smarter than bobcats. They may try to "wind" you. Once you have convinced the fox you are prey, it is hard to break their concentration.
K) Predator Behavior
Leonard Bosinski-
Well, here we have a (sort of) trick question. You and I may think that we know what these animals are going to do, but we have all been made a fool of, a time or two.
The funny thing is, when I think about it, it's almost a complete role reversal. Gray fox, usually shy during a day stand appear a lot bolder at night. Bobcat, the perfect stealth hunter in the daytime is pretty cool and confident, at night.
Then we have the nominated top of the food chain, Mr. Wiley Coyote, the first to arrive all day long, suddenly becomes timid and sneaky, at night. Especially with a moon hanging up there. They get spooky as (umm) heck. Some folks I respect believe that coyotes are actually afraid on a moonlit night. They say that they lose their advantage with a bright moon, too much like daylight, and, as everybody knows, the coyote is nothing, if not a night hunter.
Sure, you can call coyotes all day long but you are usually getting them out of bed. Anyway, pure speculation on my part, but I think that coyotes become a lot more suspicious at night. Given a chance, they circle downwind a lot more, at night than on a day stand. I can't prove it, just an opinion. For what it's worth.
Not always but speaking in generalities, under cover of darkness, it's a behavior modifier.
Posts: 6159 | Location: MPH Headquarters | Registered: September 02, 2005
Ignored post by Jrbhunter posted August 27, 2009 06:12 PM Show Post
Jrbhunter
Charter Member #1
Posted August 27, 2009 06:20 PM Hide Post
L) General Input
Steve Craig-
If I had to stress a fundamental point about night hunting, that one should always be aware of is to ALWAYS REMAIN QUIET. Learn to use predetermined hand signals or maybe at the most a lip squeak to communicate with your partner. And no talking, slamming truck doors, and jacking shells into your gun in a loud manner.
Another pet peeve I have is to keep your movements to a bare minimum just like daytime calling. Critters coming to the call are looking for movement, day and night. So become like a statue and only move the head to scan the field.
L) General Input
Danny Batastini-
Always use a red lens when lighting. In open country an amber lens will also work. Stay away from all the other colors. Only reason I can give for this recommendation is that it worked for me, it is lower intensity and it doesn't spook animals. Coyotes are NOT color blind, they do see colors but not exactly like we do. Once a coyote goes past downwind as you are lighting, you better shoot at him because he is leaving and not coming back.
It is important to keep things simple. Nowadays hunters tend to go overboard with all the equipment they take in the field. All you need at night is your partner, a light, a rifle and your call. It is all pretty much common sense, you don't need camo at night, you don't need night vision and you don't need range finders. The list goes on and on...
L) General Input
Leonard Bosinski-
Perhaps the most interesting thing about hunting at night with a light is how much it reveals about the behavior of the predator. This is because you can follow his progression through cover that you would never be able to see, crouched down under a bush. You see all the hesitations and responses to the sounds you use. You learn to identify an animal just by watching his movements, watching his eyes. It is seldom a surprise, when you finally see the whole animal's body, you already know what it is because they approach very differently... USUALLY. I believe that hunting at night, although different as night and day, (excuse the pun) gives the hunter valuable information that will help him on day stands, to understand what's going on. A day stand can develop very fast and be over very fast. A night stand has that part of it but it also has all the anticipation leading up to the point where the animal is first visible; if it were a day stand.
There are estimates we have all heard about the number of animals we call that we never see. Twice as many, five times as many, but really, who can say? A night hunter doesn't have that problem because he knows how many animals are out there. Animals beyond the "horizon" of the man hunkered down under a bush. When you break off a night stand, you know there aren't any more animals lurking and running away the minute you stand up and walk out to retrieve the E-caller.
Perhaps the most interesting and misunderstood aspect of night hunting is the tendency of a coyote to circle downwind. This can be very hard to detect, on a day stand, but not so, on a night stand. Since many of the basics of night hunting were developed in California, we devoted considerable time to the problem. The solution turned out to be, in a word, "Magic Mist". This is no commercial, just an explanation of what it is and what it does.
You start with a mixture of rabbit urine and a dash of coyote urine. Dilute it with water and pour it into a sprayer capable of atomizing a very fine mist. This mist should be sprayed downwind the entire stand so that the whole ribbon of scent settles on every rock and bush for several hundred yards, directly downwind. It is very easy to see this mist because it reflects very well in the spotlight beam regardless of the intensity of the light. So, you know where the mist is floating and you can easily see exactly where the coyote is going and these two lines will intersect at an almost predictable spot.
What happens next will surprise most people that have been brainwashed to believe that you cannot fool a coyote's nose. Well, that is partially true, but you can confuse him long enough that he could easily be a sitting duck, flatfooted and sniffing the wind. Of course he can smell a human and gun oil and deodorant and coffee breath.....but he can also detect rabbit and strange coyote and that's what aroused his curiosity in the first place. Lonesome howls and dying rabbit; makes perfect sense.
So, instead of running off as most people have observed a gazillion times, he stands there, confused and hungry, and concerned about the stranger killing a rabbit in his territory. He resists the temptation to run off as usual and makes a decent target for a light man and shooter that is prepared. He may hang around like a fox, or it may be for only a short time, but it is almost always enough time to kill him; if you know what you are doing.
Stop a coyote heading downwind, if you can; if he offers a decent shot. But, be confident in knowing that when he gets to the place where that ribbon of mist is, he will hit an invisible brick wall. Don't make the mistake of waiting and remembering to mist when you realize the animal is going downwind. It's probably too late to do you any good. It is an insurance policy for those animals that you don't get a good shot at for various reasons and when he finally gets there you know you have one last chance. This technique will increase your kill by at least ten percent, so don't be a big crybaby and complain about the smell. These are "gift" animals you would otherwise not kill. It's worthwhile, trust me.
Posts: 6159 | Location: MPH Headquarters | Registered: September 02, 2005
Ignored post by Jrbhunter posted August 27, 2009 06:20 PM Show Post
Jrbhunter
Charter Member #1
Posted August 27, 2009 06:26 PM Hide Post
M) Parting Thoughts
Steve Craig-
M. You and I have been given the great blessing of living in the greatest country on the face of the earth. We are slowly, incrementally, loosing our freedoms, by well meaning people that are simply ignorant of the privilege we call hunting. It is up to each one of us to be an ambassador to our chosen sport. If we do not, we are going to lose it in our own lifetime. So join a Calling club, join the FTA. If you don’t belong, then shame on you. If you don’t have a Chapter in your area…..start one! Get active in your local areas politically. Our sport depends on you.
And as my good friend Johnny Thorpe used to say…..”that’s all I got to say about that!”
Good hunting,
Steve
M) Parting Thoughts
Danny Batastini-
Night hunting by far, is the best way to hunt predators. Seeing a set of eyes coming at you is a rush if you have never experienced it before. Seeing several sets of eyes coming at you is an even bigger rush. Successfully taking that animal becomes even a bigger rush. Night hunting is a totally different game than day hunting when it comes to animals responding to the call because you must wait to see the eyes turn into a body. Once you learn how to night hunt correctly, you will acquire your own style. That style will work best for you. The hardest part about night hunting is staying awake, so remember to bring lots of coffee even if you don't drink it.
Good Hunting
Danny Batastini
M) Parting Thoughts
Leonard Bosinski-
I tried calling predators a couple times using the scant information available that I found in magazines like Guns & Ammo and Gun World. If only today's hunter realized the wealth of knowledge available to him, freely given. Instead, they demand more and complain that they have not been given the keys to the kingdom, but they have, via the Internet. It's a whole different world compared to 50 years ago. Gaining this knowledge the hard way cost many an early pioneer much time and considerable fortune and more than a few wives. Recognize this information for what it is, a valuable resource and reference that can't be bought at any price.
I killed my first bobcat and coyote at night. My first love, so to speak. I can't explain how thrilling it was. I will never forget it. Day hunting is very challenging, but it is relatively simple, compared to hunting at night, as it is done at the highest levels. It never gets old. It is a shame that it is restricted and outlawed in many places. The truth is, all the objections are phony. It's safer than day hunting and predator hunters do not (at all) fit the profile of a poacher.
I'm going to be interested in reading what Danny and Steve have to say on the subject. Danny and I go all the way back to El Monte High School. He's a long time member of CVCA and we have competed against each other, many times, over the years. He has a lot more experience hunting Mexico than I have, that's for sure. But, I'm older, wiser and better looking.
I have known Steve a long time, as well. He's a triple threat, expert trapper, experienced predator hunter, and guides for lions; the hard way, calling them, without dogs.
I hope the effort here encourages a few folks to give night hunting a try.
Thanks for the opportunity, Jason. Been fun. LB
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on April 01, 2010, 11:53 AM:
Thanks for the post Leonard.
I've read everyone so far.
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