This is topic I'm thinking about cashing in? in forum Member forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 22, 2022, 02:05 PM:
I have never used Ebay, no clue how it works?
But, I need small pistol primers and FUCK! the prices are outrageous! The only outfit I saw on line wanted (I think) it was $177 for a thousand! edit: that actually had some!
Anyway, I started checking shit, and first of all, I just bought 2 pounds of Hodgdon's Longshot, @ $35 each, and I was moving stuff around and found an unopened pound on the shelf!
So, because I'm dinking around with pistol stuff recently, I am damned near out of small pistol primers.
BUT, I do have 6 thousand Federal 210 Match, and I do have 6 thousand Remington 9 1/2 Large rifle, and a thousand CCI large rifle, and I have another 4 or five cases that are missing one or two flats. I'll sell a hundred or a thousand or however many they need. I need to figure out how much to ask?
And the stores around here are selling primers a hundred at a time, or max limit of 500. Turners, a major store around here, had a total of 300 primers on display, behind glass. Just for the hell of it, I called them and asked for the manager. They don't buy from private parties, he said..... But, they have a sign on the front door - WE BY GUNS! But they don't buy ammo or primers?
So, I'm thinking of going to the range and making it known that I have surplus primers for sale. We aren't allowed to buy or sell anything on the property but I can transact outside the gate, I'm pretty sure?
Anyway, off we go!
Good hunting. El Bee
[ March 22, 2022, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 25, 2022, 06:33 AM:
I assume you folks are aware of the prices, not only for gasoline, which in The Land of the Fruits and the Nuts, is over SIX BUCKS per gallon. But not only ammo is outrageously expensive, but it's also unavailable.
I have seen a few pounds of powder on the shelf at a couple local stores and the price was between $35 and $48, for one pound! So, that's it, 3 local stores, 7 trips in the last week and I only saw 4 one pound bottles of Hodgdon's powder on the shelf. And, I bought 2 of them.
I already mentioned bullets, but there is actually some availability. Limited, but if you aren't picky, you can probably find bullets for reloading.
Such is NOT the case for primers, a component that many people have speculated about now and again. It's the one critical component you can't do without and there is no substitute.
At 3 different stores locally, 2 of them had no primers, of any type and one store has 3 pathetic flats for a total of 300 primers, all different so if you aren't picky there is very little availability....PERIOD!
So, if you go to Midway, BassPro, Ammo Bros, Turners; the local stores are doing Land Office Business selling GUNS! So, you walk out of there with a secret box of ammo that the stores squirrel away so that they just happen to have one box of 9mm, or whatever? Otherwise, you won't be doing much shooting with your fancy new Glock!
I do a casual survey of primers, Rifle-large and small. Pistol-lange and small. And Magnum primers. Occasionally, and for fussy people; Benchrest primers, Match primers, etc. Well forget all that because they aren't in stock, not available, but they still list the price, between expensive and outrageous. The cheapest price I saw on line for any primer was $79.99 for a thousand, the highest was/is $124.99 but out of stock.
I found one place that had small pistol primers but the price was $177 for a thousand.
So, they list a price for unavailable primers, (which is a fantasy) and I thought, well I have them so I will ask the same price as the "unavailable" price. ($8 for a flat of100 primers) and 80 buck for a thousand, Vic's prefered method; face to face, no hazmat fee and that should be fair, seems to me? Never mind that for most that I have stashed away, I paid probably half that price? But this is barter conditions and all I can do is trade straight across, large rifle for small pistol. If that's not fair. tell me what is?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on March 25, 2022, 10:44 AM:
A C note per 1000 is exactly what I would use as the bottom line,and that's still more than fair compared to gun broker etc, plus they charge hazmat etc.
I am lucky to have a guy who deals in gun stuff and supports the local competition shooters, his rate has been $60 a 1000 for what I use which is Federal SPP. They are extremely hard to get, so I might have to see if foriegn variety will do?
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on March 26, 2022, 08:49 AM:
I read your post days ago but did not have access to a full size key board until now.
I agree with Elon Musk that the best hedge against inflation is to buy real items before they go up. With all of the money the government has dumped into the economy, my biggest worry is double digit and possibly triple digit inflation. We have WOK idiots, whom I call wokids, ruining our economy. The best hedge would be real estate, but that is out of the reach for most people; but everyday items like non perishable food, fuel, survival items, guns, ammo and/or reloading supplies would all be a good investment for the possibility of troubled times. I hope it doesn’t come to that, and I would really like to be wrong about the above possibilities I mentioned above.
Good Luck
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on March 26, 2022, 08:52 AM:
One more thing, I consider small rifle magnum primers and small pistol magnum primers an oxymoron. I’ve never seen a load list that said to use these primers.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 26, 2022, 10:25 AM:
With that Bumbling Buffoon Biden in charge and Horizontal Harris in the On Deck Circle a really wise investment might be the entire series of Fox Fire books.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 26, 2022, 07:06 PM:
Very Interesting!
Nothing I do is critical. My club's range is a virtual ghost town. I think why is because they are hoarding what they have. WE usually have about 1500 annual members, I read on the webpage that they have only hard 550 some renewals and there is some discussion about forgiveness and the membership renewal date is supposed to be January 1, but they are talking about some type of accommodation of at least 3 months before they lose something, I don't know what. I'm not in the IN CROWD, I don't attend meetings but I recently learned that they have been holding meetings via some kind of Skpe deal.
Anyway, we do have a gunshow coming up and I may set up outside the door and see what the traffic will bare. A C note, you say?
Hell, I offered somebody my Federal 210 Match primers for $70 and it was not interested. Like I said, I have seen that mythical on line price for Match primers at $125. It that price, I guess I might be giving them away?
So maybe I'll go to the gun show and just say; make me an offer? Whatever the traffic will bear?
I looked at some of the boxes and inside, the flats were marked individually, and the had a Turner's sticker, it was $1.45 for a hundred primers so I guess I paid $14.50? (large Rifle)
YES, THIS IS INSANITY, BUT IT IS THE ONE SINGLE ITEM THAT IS INDISPENSABLE. There are people that can swage bullets, and some chemists can switch from drugs to manufacturing powders. Won't be perfect, but it will "work". Primers is different.
You know Speer used to use 22 long rifle empties and fill them with lead wire. It was a little before my time but they say you could actually read the logo on the base of the bullets; like A "U" for Union Metallic Cartridge, or a big W for Winchester. This could be seen on the base of the bullets made from empty 22 rimfire cartridges, repurposed. That's innovation, folks, and it happened (I believe) in the 1940's.
But the bottom like is this: Look, you assholes, you are cutting your own throat! This panic buying is creating a huge vacuum and the various producers cannot keep up with the demand. Wouldn't it be funny if it turned out that George Soros and Bloomberg were behind all of this shortage? It's exactly how Soros became rich in the first place, dealing in national currencies. And bankrupting entire countries while he became a billionaire. Sounds bizarre, but the bastard could do it. He is the kind of prick that really needs justice....know what I mean?
Good Hunting. El Bee
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 26, 2022, 07:36 PM:
AZ Native. I actually have seen some data specifying magnum pistol primers. (lately) I think it depends. A really slow burning powder, a lot of it, then maybe? But I agree with you in practicality. I load 300 Win Mag and never use anything but large rifle primers, not magnum primers. I don't have the data in front of me but even with standard primers, you have hot and mild primers. Not a huge difference but it exists. And, some of the data is specific for ball powder, hard to light up compared to extruded.
Anyway
Good hunting. El Bee
PS I post all the time with my iphone, why can't you? The secret is, when you see the little "bee" ikon, I'm using my iphone.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 26, 2022, 07:40 PM:
Like now!
Good hunting. El Bee 🐝
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 26, 2022, 07:50 PM:
Is that what that is ????
A bee ???
I thought that it was a roller skate taking a dump.
Maybe I need a better monitor.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 26, 2022, 08:29 PM:
Anyway, I think I heard that the Winchester 8 1/2 large rifle primer is the hottest LR (large rifle) primer because Winchester loads a lot of belted Magnums and Winchester does not make a Magnum Large Rifle primer.
See, ko ko, they load magnum cartridges, BUT they do not manufacture the large rifle magnum primer....therefore, the Large rifle primer is hot enough to light off any factory magnum African cartridges that they offer for sale. Get it? You get it! And, that's why I buy Federal Match primers for everything except 300Win Mag, and of course, I use Winchester Large Rifle # 8 1/2. kinda like cheating, but it's always worked for me and my gun is more than 30 years old.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 27, 2022, 01:55 AM:
Hypothetical question;
Is the 'perfect' combination of case, powder, bullet design, barrel length & twist, etc. mathematically possible or are there infinite combinations without end ???
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 27, 2022, 11:34 AM:
I think, that it should be settled but unfortunately, there are idiots that always think they are brilliant and desire to reinvent the wheel.
Just about everything involving small arms is building upon something that already exists. Why we have a 357Magnum that looks suspiciously like a 38Special except it's about a tenth of an inch longer. I could go on and on, such as when they "invent" a 308Winchester, or 7.62 Nato for the military crowd and then they perform the brilliance of necking it down to 24 caliber and bingo, we invented the 243Winchester. Or take the 7X57Mauser and again, perform the genius of necking it down to 24 caliber and bingo, we have the 6mmRemington. Or earlier, because somebody loves 25 caliber, let's "create" the 257Roberts!
This shit goes on and on, oneupmanship, and there is always a parent cartridge; take the truly inventive 222Remington and a week later somebody believes they did something brilliant and pretty soon we have the 222Remington Magnum and the weird offshoot called the 5.56 or the 223Remington.
It's all going a tiny step further and next thing you know we have a hundred proprietary cartridges based on about 2 dozen original cartridges, with one little tweak and they claim history by blowing out the shoulder on damned near everything to 40* and call them "Ackley Improved" P.O. Ackley was a pretty smart gunsmith and he had a pretty smart idea that improved velocity and case life and really easy to do, just by firing his improved cartridges in the improved chamber-it works like magic!
So, this is why these assholes can't leave well enough alone and keep inventing a "NEW" cartridge when you take the 300H&H Magnum's belted case and everybody has a 300 or a 308Norma Magnum and they all have the magic belt or employ a double radius shoulder and create a whole series of Weatherby Magnums. And it took years before somebody at Remington necked down the 223Remington to 17 caliber and suddenly, Vic's eyes lit up....but why stop there? How many variations exist with the same case head but just a bit shorter because (let's face it) the 17Remington is way overbore and it could easily be called a "Magnum". Attention! find a slow burning powder and justify that barrel burner that Remington "created".
Cartridge development is, was and will always be in the hands of shade tree hobbyists. Anybody ever hear of the 357/45 Bain and Davis or the 357Sig? It's enough to drive a sane person nuts!
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 27, 2022, 12:19 PM:
All true, but then again, if shade tree mechanics didn't dick around with cartridges, the 30-30 would still be the standard and the 30-06 the wiz-bang kid on the block.
A wise man once said (paraphrasing here) "Improve the machine and you gain about 10%. Improve the man and you gain a thousand fold."
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 27, 2022, 02:34 PM:
I sold some primers and some CB caps I'll never use, and a whole case of Lapua Centerline 22's for $200. I'll never use them anyway, I don't have a custom rimfire that would justify using them so, glad to get rid of them. The guy that bought them was eager, must have a target rifle or something? Fine by me. The guy that bought the match primers didn't hesitate a bit at the C note.
It was an impulse to load it up and drive to the range, too late, most had already left, but that's ok.
Good hunting. El Bee
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on March 27, 2022, 07:14 PM:
At one time I had a S&W M27 4" brushed nickel revolver chambered in .357/44 Bain& Davis. Impressive sonofabitch as far as velocity, but needed a double jack to drive out the spent brass after firing. Have never seen a revolver chambered for a bottle neck cartridge that didn't have difficulties with brass extraction.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 28, 2022, 08:04 AM:
I figured, if somebody knew what it was, it would be you. Bain and Davis is just a local shop not far from here, in Alhambra. They were the outfit that fixed my excessive headspace problem with my first 25'06Ackley Improved, (original work done by PO Ackley, himself) Or, possibly some apprentice that worked for him?
But, it's interesting. Apparently there are two basic types of gun people. First, there are those that hang on to every last gun they ever owned, including their first Red Ryder BB Gun.
Then there are a rarer breed like Victor who has bought and traded perhaps hundreds of various firearms; these folks are not familiar with the concept of "keepsake" or sentimental value.
I guess I fall into a third class of people that follow impulses and regret selling stuff with intrinsic qualities, and still kick themselves for passing on either keepsake or value, ie: commonly known as good deals. Either way, always a loser! This type usually buys high and sells low! ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
What were we talking about?
Yeah, maybe this is the time to divest of my "portfolio"? I've got shit stocked up, or hoarded and I can't possibly use all this stuff before I pass into the great unknown. As I said before, I have flats of primers individually marked with the price, $1.39 and they are going for $7.99 on line, right now, but the problem is that they don't have any. I have 4 or 5 boxes of Herter's 9mm that I know I paid just under ten dollars and now they don't have any, but the price is $35.99. I have a lot of "range ammo" FMJ that I could very easily part with for 4 times what I paid. I also have the fancy stuff sold in cartons of 20 or 25, and maybe I can hold on to them a while longer.
My stash could be somebody's opportunity for security. There's no telling how insane this could get and I might be kicking myself a few months from now. You just never know, with some people?
If I go next week, I'll really load up. These guys are coughing up Benjamin's from their secret compartment. One man spent his last dollar, $214 was all he had, which was good enough. This actually is a barter economy. Whatever.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 28, 2022, 09:02 AM:
Magnum primers = for large or very large cases and very cold weather conditions. They can cause the bullet to jump in some applications which can affect accuracy. I have and still use them in 22-250 or the 22-250 ackley.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 28, 2022, 09:53 AM:
You are absolutely correct! I forgot about that, I knew about it and occasionally fretted about it, especially in the middle of a cold clear night with high pressure and with icicles forming on your nose hairs. But, I never actually loaded with that possibility in mind. I figured, at worst maybe a little degraded performance but I can't ever remember an unexplained miss I could attribute to degraded performance due to the cold. Even with frost on the barrel. I have resorted to keeping cartridges in my pocket, however. Whatever you do, DO NOT BREATHE ON YOUR SCOPE LENS! You will be sorry!
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: PS it started raining here about an hour ago.
edit: I hesitate to mention this but, Tillie didn't like all that shooting going on at the range yesterday. One guy! Over on the pistol side and she was cowering! Embarrassing!
[ March 28, 2022, 11:39 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 28, 2022, 02:14 PM:
Given dog's outstanding hearing and the lack of canine hearing protection, it might be better to not take her to the range.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 28, 2022, 03:20 PM:
agree koko. keep her father back from gun reports
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 28, 2022, 03:26 PM:
when my dogs bay up a coyote or almost got one dead I walk in with a 22 pistol, call dogs back so they out of line of fire and muzzle blast, then shoot coyote with a 22 c.b. cap..
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 28, 2022, 06:26 PM:
She seems fully recovered today. However, little Miss Made of Sugar took a dump under the cover of the patio rather than risk getting wet. (been raining most of the day)
Good hunting. El Bee
Oh, I know....move her to Arizona so she doesn't risk ever getting wet!
edit: I'll think about it
[ March 28, 2022, 06:26 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 28, 2022, 07:16 PM:
You guys may be right! Just since yesterday I notice she has been saying, “huh” and having me repeat everything I say!
Damn! How much are those dog hearing aids?
Good hunting. El Bee 🐝
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on March 29, 2022, 08:09 AM:
Here's an odd ball one I had long ago Leonard, it was a beast. Springfield Armory made this, it was an upper for a 1911 frame. Single shot, with a lever/bolt for lack of a better description and had an 6 or 8 inch barrel, chambered in .308.....that was a handfull.Wish I had kept that one just for a conversation piece.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 29, 2022, 08:32 AM:
I just remembered that Tillie has always become selectively deaf when sniffing around out front, or WOW, spying another dog on a leash, down the block! She has always been able to put me on IGNORE when something interests her-over there.
When I have her on a leash, she can have the damned thing twisted around both of us in 5 minutes. And remember, she graduated from OBEDIENCE SCHOOL! I have the diploma to prove it! The most useful thing to come out of that endeavor was learning about the "Gentle Leader" an interesting device that actually works as advertised. Check it out!
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 29, 2022, 10:02 AM:
Always liked Federal the most then CCI, Rem. and W-W. Match primers always if I could find them and used mostly in small primers cartridges. The large primer cases were never as fussy so used what I could get but Fed. and W-W was a favorite there. Pistols can be fun for shooting cans other than that I never really found a use for them as far as hunting goes. Always thought if you can kill your game with a rifle what makes one think they can with a short, barreled pistol. Kind of same deal with those shotties that everyone chokes the shit out of it so it shoots tite groups like a rifle and only good for 45 yards, what's the point in having one? Admit they work great on birds though.
[ March 29, 2022, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 29, 2022, 01:25 PM:
Maybe you haven't seen a coyote looking like it's run over by a freight train when hit with Dead Coyote? In my opinion, #4Buck kills them just as dead, but DAMN! However, I have also decided that Dead Coyote is to valuable to waste on coyotes. I do agree with you that in general, a shotgun is a shrug when you have a rifle available.
Yes on Federal Match primers. Almost all I ever use, I trust them, especially on consistency. And what else is there?
In terms of preference my list is Federal, then Remington, then CCI and last choice would be Winchester, except as I have said before, I use WW Large Rifle exclusively in 300WM. For some reason, many people consider CCI to be the last word in primers and I have never understood a justification for that preference? It's a product identification thing; name recognition.
As I have always maintained, people are shortchanging themselves if they do not handload. It ads so much to your fund of knowledge. There are things involved with case prep that you don't understand if all you do is buy factory ammunition. That's just ONE little detail, there are many other things about ballistics you just don't pay attention to unless you load your own ammo. Generally speaking, a handloader can quote velocities and pressures, drop charts and concepts like overbore and the relative merits of extruded and spherical propellents. You will never experience the satisfaction of uniforming primer pockets or removing the flash from primer pockets, much less outside neck turning and understanding the difference between it and inside neck reaming, even when it's best to trim to length. All of those considerations, and much more are lost on factory shooters.
Granted, those questions are more the province of accuracy rifle shooters than most handgun disciplines. At least it's nice to know where to draw the line and where the law of diminishing returns comes into play. Suffice it to say that handloading make one a more intelligent shooter; at least a lot more aware of basic facts and how to apply them to your benefit.
End of rant
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 29, 2022, 02:02 PM:
The place for the shotgun (copper plated lead BB) is for hunting the thick stuff where 40 yards is a long shot. The coyote(s) weaving in and out of the sage is the situation made for the shotgun.
Unfortunately, people will miss or wound coyotes at longer ranges so the answer must be tighter chokes. Shotguns that deliver super tight patterns and kill out to 60 & 70 yards are to be had.
However.............. the long range killing pattern will be about the size of your fist at the closer ranges making it very easy to miss the 'easy ones'.
Be assured that if you miss a coyote running by at 20 yards one of your 'friends' will be there to witness it and tell all of your friends.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 29, 2022, 04:42 PM:
I'm not known for my shotgun abilities, and for good reason. However, I don't favor the copper plated lead BB's in that heavy cover, (thick stuff) you describe, and I'll tell you why. The #4 Buck in a 3" shell will even pass through prickly Pear and anchor a big male, on the run. It's my go to for all close cover situations. I have used the 2 ounce Federal copper plated BB"s many times when walking up a cripple. That load will settle a coyote's hash as well as anything you might name. As far as choke, I'm not an educated shottie guy but I think it's hard to make a mistake with a full choke. Especially when that distance you evaluated at 40 yards turns out to be 65 steps over uneven ground.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 29, 2022, 05:56 PM:
When the shot's 65 steps is when the Mini-14 really shines.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 29, 2022, 08:09 PM:
I attended one of the camp outs had a local partner set up for next day to hunt, walked over to his truck in mourning and he says all you got is a rifle. I said yes and then he goes to tell me I can't hunt with him. LOL Lucked out and got teamed up with two other guys for the day. I shot 3 coyotes all within shotgun range and closest was less than 15 yards with a rifle! Hmm
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