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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on March 31, 2019, 10:01 AM:
Here is an interesting police video showing how quickly situations can escalate, as well as the lack of handgun "stopping power."
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/06/daniel-zimmerman/police-bodycam-video-shows-the-limit-of-handgun-stopping-power/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=sendible&utm_term=ttagfeed &utm_campaign=ttagfeed&fbclid=IwAR1wMpBMyHe3LXJQMz-ks2ATN8WXuF-DZlt-rguKNdU2kcbwC-i-1Xgq2Kc
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on March 31, 2019, 03:21 PM:
Truly hope I never have to find out how effective my .40 S&W is!
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on March 31, 2019, 04:39 PM:
Double tap always.
Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on March 31, 2019, 05:06 PM:
I think the police here are told to fire until the badguy is no longer a threat. How many times they can actually hit the guy 5 feet away is another story.
PCP is some bad $h1t. Bet he was hurting for certain the next day if still alive.
edited for spelling, big ole fingers hit the wrong keys
[ March 31, 2019, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: DanS ]
Posted by Semp (Member # 3074) on April 01, 2019, 08:54 AM:
There is a reason for a high capacity magazine. If you are going to shoot just once you might as well carry a derringer.
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on April 01, 2019, 09:31 AM:
My theory is three right now , make sure its down!
More if needed!
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 01, 2019, 10:47 AM:
I'm sure we will all respond brilliantly, when the mind numbing brain freezing moment of truth is upon us. Meaning, none of us knows for sure how we will respond in a life or death situation. I know this much about it, the idea of actually killing a human being is a monumental decision for me. If I go on auto programing, that's probably better than putting a lot of thought into it.
As most of us here know, as a hunter, I know the power of firearms far removed from the typical Hollywood portrayal. It's bloody and messy and gruesome and loud and extremely traumatic. Beyond that, sure, I can be as calm and collected as the next one who never done it and can never grasp exactly what it's like. Now, add in a little doubt and the one thing that stands out for me, those second guessing cocksuckers....why the doubletap, why the 40mm cannon, why are you carrying, in the first place? Oh, and the indignity of the guaranteed handcuffs and arrest, no matter how right I was. That shit will cause anybody to have an attack of self doubt. If you do any thinking and any hesitation, you already need to bend over and kiss your ass good bye. That's the main, up front question; with the simple act of carrying, that automatically means I intend to use it and ultimately, kill somebody. Almost premeditated, ain't it?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on April 01, 2019, 06:03 PM:
I would have to point to that Hollywood documentary, Wind River, as a near perfect portrayal of how to respond to a lethal threat with a handgun. The bad guys comes out of no where and sprays the beautiful female FBI agent with pepper spray. She reacts by pointing her duty weapon at him and emptying the magazine in his direction, then dumps the empty magazine and reloads before approaching. Think she actually did that twice.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 02, 2019, 06:33 AM:
Yeah, right! Text book response? In the first place, who carries an extra magazine? My puny little Seacamp doesn't even have an extra magazine, it didn't come with one and I never got around to ordering an extra. Besides, the cost seemed exorbitant, for an ankle gun.
I know that I'm not programed for a double tap, automatically? And, if I start thinking about it, it's not a double tap any more; it's bang! pause, pause, bang! Check it out....
Then, I read the proper response, when reinforcements arrive is to express concern for the perp. Like, "is he going to be okay?" Bullshit like that.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on April 02, 2019, 08:04 AM:
I don't for sure know how I would react that's why I call it a theory. I know how I train or practice but that does not come with adrenaline. I always carry an extra mag rather have and not need it than the other way round.
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on April 02, 2019, 05:12 PM:
https://www.kwch.com/content/misc/Police-Mom-with-gun-ends-abduction-attempt-in-West-Virginia-508005691.html
In today's news. This is why you carry, and carry as much ammo as you can. Bet this little girl's mom is thankful she does. It isn't about being afraid of what will happen if you are forced to defend yourself. It's about living with yourself when you could have been able to and you chose not to. I would never live anyplace where they didn't allow me that protection simply because of their ignorant fear of firearms.
My Walthers has a 15 round mag and one in the pipe and I have a backup mag on my left hip whenever I carry. Always. I was taught early on that 2 is 1 and 1 is none. If it's important enough to have 1, you need at least 30 more.
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on April 02, 2019, 06:53 PM:
Well, I had a post written and fucked it up, which is probably for the best. I didn't want to write a long gawd damned drawn out story anyway. The point was going to end the same anyway, so I'll just add my opinion, which is worth just what you pay for it.
Im not law enforcement, just a simple civilian, so all the mind play, what ifs', training, tactics, mag changes, spare ammo, caliber etc, it's all bull shit when "that time" comes.
Ive had "that time", did not drop the hammer, but trust me when I say I was taking up the slack in the trigger right before he blinked.
It's all the other shit you hear about that makes it tough; tunnel vision, auditory exclusion, slowing of time, It all happens, dream like, adrenalin is funny stuff.
The only thing of importance is you are one of two types of individuals, one who acts or one who freezes, and you won't know that until that time happens to you, regardless of ninja training.
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 03, 2019, 06:26 AM:
word
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 03, 2019, 08:53 AM:
Well, the only time I ever had to: when in doubt, wup it out, I actually had my Commander jammed against the guy's nose as I was trying to help him get over a gate. He was just a garden variety prowler, and I wasn't going to shoot him anyway.
That's something we aren't talking about, just the threat, showing the gun and ending the conflict BEFORE it gets serious. Well, I guess some think that if you have to draw iron, you have to use it? I kinda think that in some cases, even lifting your shirt is enough, I did that once, too; a man with a knife. That changed everything.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on April 03, 2019, 11:45 AM:
I disagree somewhat; I suppose you can parse degrees of conflict and confrontation, it sounds like your little dust up really didn't require a firearm, but rather a boot in his ass to help him over the fence?
I can't speak to it logically, you were there, I wasn't, only you know what level of force was needed.
In my world, I don't consider drawing a firearm unless I am convinced someone is posing a serious threat and I am ready to use it, not for bluff, but self protection.
Can only speak with any authority to my situation, by the time I eventually showed my firearm, I had felt enough emotional stress, that to finish the trigger pull would have been anticlimactic?
[ April 03, 2019, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: Az-Hunter ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 03, 2019, 12:34 PM:
Well, yeah, but there was a little more to it.
The actual situation. I did not know this guy, but I knew his intent. What was actually going on was a divorced father and his buddies trying to get the kid from ex-wife. (on Christmas Eve)
As the father pounded at the front door and argued with his ex- mother in law, the ex-wife tried to run out the back door with the baby. All I knew was she was screaming and a strange man was fighting with her.
He did not belong where he was, and I insisted he get out of there the way he got in, up and over. Then the whole crew showed up and was in my face. I had to do something, so I gave him some encouragement.
A boot up the ass didn't seem sufficiently motivating. I've thought about it, and I can't say I was totally justified? Domestic stuff can sure get complicated.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on April 03, 2019, 03:01 PM:
I have had a gun stuck in my face a couple times...it works. Then again, Im kind of sane.
I saw my pops pull a gun on a guy that came into our yard, drunk, demanding to get into our house and being stupid, threatening my mom etc....when he didnt back off and came forward with his hand raised, my dad pulled a Wyatt Earp move and pistol whipped the fuck out of him...with a Smith model 29. Sheriff shows up and hauls the guy off. His van was down the street out of gas but full of stolen shit. My dad was thanked and never heard another thing about it. That was back in the days when you could do that shit in a small town, where everyone watched out for the neighborhood...now its just a hood.
Mark
edit for spelling
[ April 03, 2019, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on April 03, 2019, 05:23 PM:
Fight, flight, or freeze. You perform only as well as you practice (or prepare).
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on April 04, 2019, 02:47 AM:
Only drew mine once I told the story here about the forest cops standing behind the left of a right opening door to stupid for belief ! Could have been real bad but wasn't .
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 04, 2019, 06:03 AM:
I bet ko ko's got stories up the ass!
He was a lumberjack, learned most of his income bareknuckle, before the French Foreign Legion and that Monastery in Katmandu where he learned most of his MMA. And, he can't ever show his face in Beirut, with all the rumors and the bodies.... besides the Harem.
Anything you can share with us, Amigo?
Good hunting. El Bee
edit:( he will deny everything, of course) wink wink
[ April 04, 2019, 06:12 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on April 04, 2019, 02:59 PM:
LMAO!
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 04, 2019, 03:51 PM:
Come to think of it, he's not going to admit anything while still in witness protection program. Why do you think he's hiding out in Safford? Why would anybody? At least half the folks in that town are hiding from somebody or looking for somebody.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on April 04, 2019, 06:07 PM:
I am here in Scenic Safford wholly by choice.
I am a harmless, loveable, frail, elderly, fuzzball.
I feel badly when I poke bales with fletched pointed sticks, hoping that it doesn't 'hurt' the bales.
My dog even loves cats.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on April 05, 2019, 02:27 AM:
KoKo your dog must be slow , cats are nothing more than furry creatures that make your house smell bad ! They actually have no purpose !
[ April 05, 2019, 02:28 AM: Message edited by: Paul Melching ]
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on April 05, 2019, 04:31 AM:
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Paul;
If my dog was slow ……. it would be an improvement !!!! Barks at it's own reflection in the fish pond on the patio.
My (outdoor) cats serve a couple of purposes.
(1) They prevent mice & such from nesting under the house.
(2) Cats kill scorpions.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 05, 2019, 05:42 AM:
I once put two scorpions in a jar, found one in each boot. When I got home from "the dez" there was only one in the jar; a miracle had occurred!
I don't agree with Paul's opinion of cats. He doesn't understand them. A pity.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on April 05, 2019, 06:24 AM:
I just say that shit to twist panties LOL! Cats do have a purpose street tacos !
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