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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on March 20, 2019, 03:10 PM:
Been suffering cabin fever. Bad. Got out over the weekend for a camping trip. Took a few short walks to see stuff. Sun was even shining! It was nice...
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on March 20, 2019, 03:12 PM:
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 20, 2019, 03:17 PM:
That's so amazing!
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on March 20, 2019, 05:59 PM:
Great stuff! As always Dave, thanks for sharing your walkabout's.
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on March 20, 2019, 06:16 PM:
Suffering cabin fever here last week also. Record snow for February. It's kinda fun walking on 3-4 feet of hard snow though.
[ March 20, 2019, 06:17 PM: Message edited by: Lonny ]
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on March 20, 2019, 07:06 PM:
Who's the hot babe?
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on March 21, 2019, 02:57 AM:
Spectacular as always Dave ! The shot of the night sky is amazing I have skies like that here but cant capture it like that ! Not exactly a Monsanto hybrid on that corn LOL very special pics !
Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on March 21, 2019, 01:36 PM:
Awesome Dave. Thanks.
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on April 18, 2019, 05:58 PM:
More Jeeping and camping and walking and looking at stuff again last weekend. Backpacked for three nights. Walked almost 50 miles.
This was over 20 miles from where the Jeep was parked.
And just a bunch more stuff.
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on April 18, 2019, 06:01 PM:
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on April 18, 2019, 06:04 PM:
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on April 18, 2019, 06:07 PM:
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on April 18, 2019, 06:10 PM:
Not sure how many more years I'm going to hold up to 50 miles off trail in these rugged canyons. But I sure do love it!
Posted by MI VHNTR (Member # 3370) on April 18, 2019, 06:45 PM:
Excellent pics. Thanks for sharing your trip.
Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on April 19, 2019, 02:16 AM:
Wow.About all I can say.
Dave am going to try find it,think it's in our cabin,but I found a small piece or fragment of pottery with those sorts of black lines in it on an elk bowhunt near Coyote(yes true name)New Mexico a couple years ago.Possible it's related?A local said it was Anasazi?
When find it will try post a pic.
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on April 19, 2019, 04:29 AM:
For sure related. Pottery was a big trade item. Certain styles came from certain areas and the unique look of each had as much to do with the clay and firing materials available in the locale as anything. But, definitely, black on white, as that style is called, is black on white - same time period, same general location of origin.
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on April 19, 2019, 04:34 AM:
Used to be, not even all that long ago, potsherds like that and bigger were everywhere in this area. Any site you found, would have them everywhere. But people pick them up and take them home and it has got to where you have to try pretty hard to find a site where it's still there. Most sites that can be reached fairly easily have absolutely zero left.
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on April 19, 2019, 04:56 AM:
With all the relics shown you must be way off the beaten path ,here in Az. they have carried most everything away in any easily accessible site . very nice pics of things I'll probably never witness in person thanks for taking us along . I have visited Utah and gone to most all the monuments but never in that deep.
Posted by www (Member # 3918) on April 19, 2019, 06:19 AM:
Great photos as always.
Posted by Semp (Member # 3074) on April 19, 2019, 06:31 AM:
Great pics! Beautiful landscapes. I love that night sky. I really need to plan a trip out west.
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on April 19, 2019, 07:13 AM:
Paul, yeah pretty far off the beaten track. The main canyon has a backpacking trail through it that sees some use. But the un-named side canyons are a total bushwack. No trails, hard as heck to get up into some of them because the brush is so tall and thick.
Don't see much 10 foot tall sagebrush anymore either! My friend Randy is 6' 5".
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on April 19, 2019, 07:57 AM:
I see that same black / white pattern on shards down this way fairly regularly.
Question; In one of your photos, it appears to be a cubby shelter on the cliff face that's plugged with a large stone.
Possible tomb ???
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on April 19, 2019, 08:24 AM:
Koko, that's a granary. Foodstuff storage. In the day, that door stone was mouse tight. Very uncommon to find a door stone still in place these days. Very uncommon. That was a long way up a rough side canyon with no trail.
We have found bones and burials before though. My limited understanding, people lived here for many thousands of years, with these structures being the most recent, only about 7-800 years old most of them. Burials varied a great deal over time and likely according to status. But the most common, was just being tossed in the midden. Next most common, was being buried in a cyst under the floor of the dwelling - which we have found a few of those. I found one last month, in fact. Did not of course dig it up or try to see what was buried, but it was an obvious burial cyst.
And, kind of an interesting side note to that, my buddy who is very interested in this stuff but hasn't done very much of it yet, walked right by it, almost stepped on it, without even recognizing it as man made. Let alone a cyst and very possibly a burial (cysts were often used for grain and household storage as well - but the location and size of this one, I'm betting burial).
Another common burial was what we call crevice, just dump in a big crack in the rock.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on April 19, 2019, 12:11 PM:
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 19, 2019, 02:02 PM:
Dave, I am so jealous! I love that stuff. I have stumbled on a very few, but since my primary focus is hunting, I have never took the time to do a good explore. What you are doing is what's required, clear the boards and concentrate on ruins. But, you obviously have sources.
Burial in crevasses. How did you determine it wasn't just an accident? Take your borescope, drill a hole in that sealed granary. Maybe it's plumb full? Okay, next time.
Thanks for showing us this stuff. You really need to do a large format book. I know, there is a serious downside to publishing these things.
This is awesome stuff! Thank you!
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on April 19, 2019, 04:40 PM:
Posted by MI VHNTR (Member # 3370) on April 19, 2019, 05:57 PM:
Absolutely wonderful pictures. Thank you for sharing them.
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on April 28, 2019, 11:09 AM:
Farting around out on The Swell the last couple days.
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on April 28, 2019, 11:12 AM:
More (there's always more)Ö
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on April 28, 2019, 11:15 AM:
And even more...
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on April 28, 2019, 11:57 AM:
Awsome! Whos Yota is that..and..umm...what is that splatter from??
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on April 28, 2019, 02:03 PM:
That's my buddy Carl's FJ80. He has a 100 series he did a full custom solid front axle on 35's that is way sweet too. He's a helluva fabricator and engineer. Can build damn near anything. Built his own plasma table.
How often ya get a chance to piss in a dinosaur track:
Posted by NeilA (Member # 6789) on April 28, 2019, 02:18 PM:
Great photos Dave! Thank you for sharing.
Canít wait for the next trip!
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on April 28, 2019, 02:21 PM:
Too cool all of it and the vehicles !
Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on April 28, 2019, 10:25 PM:
Wow Dave, the fun never ends!! You may get tired of all the compliments. Its pretty clear you arent the sort to need attention but I can help myself!! Man, you are sooo talented!! Fer real, fer real!! Looks like the the dino track might could be flipping you the bird for peeing all over it!!
I never figured Lonny to be ANY kind of handsome!! Hard to tell by just reading posts. Heck, I've met Leonard in person and never expected he would have looked just like James Dean as a youngster!!
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 29, 2019, 11:44 AM:
Yes, Danny, there are several movie stars I am continually mistaken for. It's embarrassing, sometimes!
Hey Dave, the last time I went down a "trail" like in this photo, half of my engine mounts broke!
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: speaking of movie star good looks, that Dave Affleck ain't no slouch!
[ April 29, 2019, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on April 30, 2019, 03:30 AM:
you should be doing shoots for the auto MFG"rs.
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on April 30, 2019, 04:48 AM:
Leonard, breaking motor mounts is mostly a thing of the past. I broke them a couple times, way back in the day. But frames are a lot more rigid these days, and suspensions are a lot more flexible, far less likely to twist things up to the point of breaking off mounts.
I replaced them on my Jeep recently, just on GP. But they were actually in surprisingly good shape. I saved the old ones. Have worn out two transmission mounts on it though.
The new stuff that went in a couple weeks ago.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 30, 2019, 07:55 AM:
If you say so? I forgot to mention that I also busted the fan cowling on the radiator. I replaced with steel motor mounts and stayed the hell out of those tight places. You just have to ask yourself; do I really want to go there?
I've been down some awesome creek beds where I needed somebody walking in front and guiding me. And, always in the back of my mind I keep saying "won't I ever learn?"
I look at it like this: if it takes away from hunting, it's probably not worth it. Now, in your case, you have a different objective. Oh! And, I keep forgetting! Do you bring the gear and give in to temptation and make a stand, now and then, in that back country? It all looks very prime, even a hand call, perched on a rock, gun or no gun? Come on, admit it! You done it.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on April 30, 2019, 09:19 AM:
Up to your usual standard of awesome !!!!
Should you get the urge to do a 'Rock Art' calendar, put me down for a couple.
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on May 14, 2019, 05:56 PM:
Went out to The Maze over the weekend. Twenty-something times I've been there now, I never get tired of it.
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on May 14, 2019, 05:58 PM:
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on May 14, 2019, 06:06 PM:
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on May 14, 2019, 07:44 PM:
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on May 15, 2019, 05:11 PM:
Pics are awesome. You need to remove your front plate, snap a few and make a small fortune selling them to Jeep for advertising. I've never seen a picture that screams "Jeep Tough" quite like yours.
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on May 15, 2019, 09:08 PM:
What he said...
..and it always looks brand new!?
What's going on here?
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on May 16, 2019, 02:40 AM:
It's a 30 footer .
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 16, 2019, 07:05 AM:
Has anyone mentioned about that red dye used to paint on the rocks? I'm very curious. Whatever they use, everybody uses the same stuff, apparently? And that is all the more curious. I mean, they didn't have TV. So hundreds of miles away, group A is showing group B & C how to gather the berries and mix in a little catalyst to just the right consistency. I'm saying that it was a technology of the times and I think it's interesting that something like that would get passed across town, so to speak.
However, it has been established that those people did network. They had contact and there was trade. I am very curious about those various cultures. What it was like. And, it sure as hell wasn't easy!
Imagine this. You need a new stone war axe. So you find the perfect rock and imbed it just right in the Vee of a hardwood tree and wait a few years until the branches grow around and it's wedged in there tight, no messing with twisted vines to hold it in place. Clever, and a trick that was passed around. Anyway, I think that stuff is interesting. How do you make a two piece arrow, with superior flight characteristics? Usually consisting of a lightweight reed for the front part. Whoever would have thought of that, and pass it on. Just finding tubers that they can suck the moisture out of. Did every tribe, every band have to reinvent the wheel? That also is interesting, in that Amerinds possessed a well developed culture, were very into decorations. Some primitive people had all they could do to keep from starving, but our Indians had the spare time to indulge in what you might consider frivolous ornaments and stuff to improve their appearance, like plucking stray facial hairs with two clamshells as tweezers. They were all into looking good so there was obviously an abundance.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on May 16, 2019, 05:10 PM:
I had a sociology professor in college who lived in Madagascar with the Kung Bushmen for a year. Totally primitive indigenous people. He impressed upon us that we should consider technology not so much a matter of microcircuits and computers, but rather, discovering and maximizing the resources available to you in your environment. For example, the bushmen used two-part arrows similar to what Leonard describes above. The back portion was a hollow reed and the front portion was an integrated shaft and arrowhead. What was remarkable about these arrows is that the bushmen would locate a very hard to find plant and mark its location for later use. The roots of that plant, when processed using a method they devised, produced a toxin that was overwhelmingly potent.The arrowhead tip would be dipped in the poison and then the arrow would be used to take game. A single arrow was enough to bring down an adult giraffe. They would get a shot into the target, the hollow shaft would fall away and the hunters would follow and track the giraffe until the neurotoxin spread through its body and it went down, at which time they would swarm over it and process the meat.
Each time I see those shards of pottery in the pics above, I'm reminded of something my uncle taught me. He was born and raised near Cortez, Colorado and he and his brothers bought a mile-long canyon four miles north of the backside of Mesa Verde. Down the canyon, a couple hundred yards from his property line there can be found another much smaller Anasazi encampment. On the top rim of their ground, if you look closely, you can see circular arrangements of stones embedded in the soil. Anthropologists have been there and they were told that those circles are the foundations of structures built by a people that were ~800 years prior to the Anasazi. When I was little, we were allowed to pick up arrowheads and pottery. When I took my wife and kids there 15 years ago, the family had changed to forbidding anything from being removed. But, my daughter Tabor found one particular piece that is extremely unusual and considered to be a real find, so she was allowed to keep it. This pottery was produced using a secret method of firing that, until about ten years ago, had never been replicated using modern technology or science, and people had tried forever. The pieces were a light eggshell colored clay, about 3/16-inch thick. Looking at the edge of the piece, you would see a black line sandwiched between the inner and outer white surfaces. Apparently, this is a very rare form of pottery that is specific to this particular culture, making the pottery very strong. Somehow, they figured this out on their own. Passed it along for generations, and the method died with their culture.
How did those bushmen discover that they could process the root from that one specific plant and produce a chemical that fed them and provided them with food, hides, sinew? And who was the guy that first discovered that cow's milk was good? I mean, did some caveman get drunk on fermented fruit with his caveman buddies and suck a cow's teat on a dare?
Makes you wonder.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 16, 2019, 09:51 PM:
Something I find interesting about our native Americans. Those anthropologists have determined by examining knife marks on human bones and also cracking those human bones open to get at the nourishing marrow, that many of them were canibals. Well this little detail doesnít set to well with the descendants among us today. Their Public Relations Department prefer being thought of as The Noble Redman, rather than primitive savages.
Good hunting. El Bee 🐝
PS one of the above photos is of a can of Log Cabin Syrup. I hope Iím not the only one that recognized it.
[ May 16, 2019, 09:53 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on May 17, 2019, 02:27 AM:
I used to pour syrup on my hot cakes from a can that looked like that log cabin. I was told by some anthropology mucky muck that our indigenous people are not indigenous. I don't recall the details ( don't get old) but they came here from somewhere else.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on May 17, 2019, 03:42 AM:
You are likely thinking of the Bering Land Bridge and the Migration from Asia.
Our local college extension is Discovery Park. Before he retired, it was run by Dean Swanson. Think style meets flair and that was Dean Swanson. About once a month he would hold open to the public lectures on any number of topics, Anthropology being his strong suit. We had some interesting conversations. One of them was about the Migration from Alaska all the way to South America. I don't remember the exact dates (don't get old) but in the span of a few generations, people without the wheel settled two continents.
My contention was that there is something screwy with the time-line.
You're migrating south from Alaska along the coast. It's cold. Keep moving south.
Washington / Oregon. Not as cold but damp & raining non-stop. Keep moving south.
Arrive at the Sacramento River. Mountains to the East, ocean to the West & Delta in between. Climate is really good. Time to settle down with no reason to move until the abundant resources are depleted. Explorers from the group return with reports of a desert farther South called Mojave. You don't want to go there.
Sooooo ÖÖÖÖÖÖÖ. The Migration most likely stalled for a long time in Calif. The Ancient Ones may have been savages but they weren't stupid. They knew a good thing when they saw it and would not have continued south until they had to.
And then there's Clovis. The last that I heard, those people were a 'problem' with the time-line, also.
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on May 17, 2019, 03:48 AM:
Recent thought has them coming in two distinct waves, with the earliest coming down the coast by boat.
The timeline has been moved back by thousands of years.
Estimates of pre Columbian population have been greatly increased, too. New imaging technology is showing vast complexes of buildings, roads and canals that were unknown ten years ago. Only explanation for them is there were way, way more people living here than previously imagined.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 17, 2019, 10:12 AM:
Yes, that's true, what Dave is alluding to. A hell of a lot of "people" scattered all over the place including the Caribs inhabiting the islands south of Florida.
And don't forget the mysterious Mound People. The physical things they accomplished would rival the Pyramids. Yet, almost nothing is known of them.
At least the Aztecs and Mayans had somewhat of a written language. But just think about that for a minute; many thousands of people. So land bridges may come and go, but once they got here, they got busy and multiplied.
Sometimes you think of scattered bands, as ko ko mentioned, the very interesting Clovis People hunting mastodons. Just imagine cornering a beast of several thousand pounds with spears! And, apparently they were very good at it.
I think that probably the physical history of the New World is yet to be reviled. There is so much we don't know. Including, throughout human history, the rise and curious fall of so many vibrant civilizations.
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: another shaky timeline concerns the land bridge caused by the Ice Ages between 18,000 and 14,000 years ago. Maybe the people in Siberia knew about the prime lands if they could only get there? When considering the earliest "guesses" and the fact that there have been excavations way down in South America that have been dated almost that far back, that they must have scooted many thousands of miles to get there, and right away! In some ways, it doesn't make sense? Conflict with entrenched populations only explains a little bit. There is a lot of room for a lot of theory. LB
edit: I know I'm probably not alone, when tramping the wilderness. You know the feeling that nobody has ever stepped in these steps before? It's nice to think that, but it's also possible that humans have trampled all over those places where you think you are the first to be there.
Just for instance, I pay a lot of attention to the most durable artifacts, specifically-rocks. When you know what to look for it's easy to spot tools and implements, and there it is! People have wandered all over the place where you think nobody has ever set foot. It's a fascinating subject!
[ May 17, 2019, 10:34 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 17, 2019, 01:10 PM:
I donít know who else might find this interesting, but I think itís remarkable, and very clever for a people that run around in the jungle naked.
There is a tribe in very remote interior of Brazil. And there are anthropologists just barely able to study them from afar.
Well, one thing that they noticed was that they had a rare tree that they visited rather frequently. Now, I forgeif it was edible fruit or some medication for sickness, but it definitely had a very important use.
However, the tree was covered with vicious thorns, and the fruit was way up there, no way to just throw rocks up there.
At first the scientists thought it was so lucky that there was another tree right next to the unclimbable one. Then they found out that when they asked around and were guided to other rare trees, every one of them just happened to have that same, very easy to climb tree right beside the rare valuable tree.
So it turned out that the Indians admitted that they or some long gone relative had planted the adjacent tree for only that one purpose, as a ladder to make it easy to get at the good stuff.
Now, I donít know about you guys, but I think thatís pretty damned clever!
Good hunting. El Bee 🐝
[ May 17, 2019, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on May 17, 2019, 01:57 PM:
Yes, amazing that 'uneducated' people could survive & thrive in areas where modern man would suffer greatly.
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on May 18, 2019, 05:53 AM:
Something kind of hard to grasp, is that much of the area I do a lot of my farting around in, was more densely populated a thousand years ago than it is today.
The trade network Leonard mentioned, it ran from Central America to the Ohio Valley. With branches shooting off to probably every corner of the continent. This was happening a couple thousand years ago.
I have found arrowheads in Nevada, that according to the books I have, are supposed to be from the Great Lakes region. For instance.
What most people don't appreciate, is the enormity of the depopulation that took place in the interior of the continent well ahead of European exploration and settlement. Early visitors brought diseases that spread far beyond early explorations. By the time settlement and regular contact was happening in the interior, what those early settlers and explorers were making contact with was a remnant population of apocalyptic survivors. With little trace of previously well developed civilizations intact. That context has never really been understood by the vast majority.
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on May 18, 2019, 06:07 AM:
KoKo so what you are saying is that most likely Nancy Pelosi is from Sacramento ! (*as in abundant recourses depleted ) lol I love this stuff so much to learn and discover history is fascinating !
[ May 18, 2019, 06:10 AM: Message edited by: Paul Melching ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 18, 2019, 07:16 AM:
DAVE, you are so right to point that out for those that haven't pondered the changes in the vast interior that we are talking about. In some cases, it was the depleting of such basic resources such as water, or even wood for fire, not for warmth, just for basic cooking needs. You have to step back and wonder how some of these barren locations held a large population and right now, you think about it and don't see how it could?
Well, it's because of these CLIMATE CHANGE ASSHOLES! The climate changes! You could say it's because of an Ice Age, or more probably SUN SPOTS! These pathetic people think they can control earth climate by regulating carbon credits! It's like a Border Collie who has to herd sheep, it's in their DNA. CONTROL FREAKS.
Where was I? Okay, the climate changes imperceptibly and next thing you know, Paul gets the vapors down in Phoenix. It happens. It seems obvious that there are places on this earth that are more suitable for habitation than others. All we need to do is wait a few millennium and Phoenix will revert to a tropical paradise. If you can't wait, stay away!
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on May 18, 2019, 07:55 AM:
The Sonoran desert was once a tropical rain forest !
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on May 18, 2019, 01:01 PM:
Amazing how modern technology has improved our abilities to discover ancient cultures. In southern Kansas, along the Oklahoma border near the present day community of Arkansas City (pronounced Ar-Kansas) archaeologists recently announced public tours of what, in the 1400's, is now regarded to be one of, if not the, largest indigenous communities in the United States. Spanish records told of a huge encampment of over 2,000 "homes" across several miles of the prairie with as many as 10 people in each home, a total population of over 20,000 Plains Indians who were all of the Etzanoa Tribe, ancestors to the Wichita Tribe.