This is topic Suspect heads will roll in forum Member forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 18, 2017, 07:08 AM:
Some type of policy must have been ignored? Either the getters were placed where they shouldn't, or the kid and his dog were where they shouldn't have been.
Wildlife Services has some 'splainin' to do. The local sheriff meanwhile is demonstrating her ignorance.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/idaho-boy-injured-family-dog-killed-government-cyanide-025850761.html
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on March 18, 2017, 06:12 PM:
I'm guessing dog and kid were somewhere they were not supposed to be.Time will tell. But if the dog had been run over by a car like thousands of others have been, you'd have never heard a word about it. It would have just been an unfortunate accident. I'm guessing AP wouldn't have run the story. But the dog would be just as dead.
[ March 18, 2017, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: 3 Toes ]
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 18, 2017, 08:28 PM:
So true Cal......
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 19, 2017, 06:47 AM:
Say Cal. Can you give us a brief run down on how you go about placing getters? Do you make any attempt to conceal where they are or are they right out in the open? Me personally, I've never seen one in place but I have seen the signs. And, the signs are not prominently displayed, where you can't miss them. In other words, seems like they point the signs away from a normal entry, like sideways where you wouldn't casually read it without walking up to see what the sign was all about. Hell, I don't know exactly what I mean, but when I have seen signs, it seemed almost deliberate? Like, why put up a sign and place it where a casual passerby wouldn't be in a position to read what it says? Hard to explain, like "well, the law says I need to put up a sign but I don't need to place it where somebody can actually read it." Anyway, that's the impression I got from a few encounters, they are easily overlooked.
But, the big question is; I thought cyanide was more or less outlawed a long time ago?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on March 19, 2017, 06:59 AM:
I place signs where they are very easy to find and read. They are legal and the cyanide capsules are bought from the Pocatello supply depot. You have to be licensed but it's not a hard process. Whats funny if you read the story the people are so full of shit its ridiculous. It's not a gas. It's a granular powder. They don't hiss, explode, or make any noise. They aren't a bomb and they don't go off by touching them. There is no way the dog was killed unless it actually pulled the gun, setting off the the trigger and getting the cyanide in his mouth.
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on March 20, 2017, 03:07 AM:
I'm surprised Leonard hasn't seen one. I've seen a lot of them. Used to see them damn near everywhere it seemed like. Not nearly so many out there anymore.
Signs are always where you can't miss them.
- DAA
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 20, 2017, 05:41 AM:
DAA.......
Leonard, a.k.a. El Bee, being well heeled, has adopted the African Safari style of hunting and it's little wonder that he's never seen a getter.
First to go down the trail are a couple of trackers. Then the guy who carries the shooting tri-pod, the P.H. / Guide and then Leonard. Following is the guy carrying El Bee's sun-shade umbrella, the sound guy and the camera crew and a couple of skinners. (They really ARE a couple.)
Leonard is carefully steered around anything like snakes, sharp sticks, getters or groupie hookers.
It's amazing that he ever even calls anything in but I guess he really is good.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
And a happy belated St. Paddy's day.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 20, 2017, 05:43 AM:
Yes, I guess I am also surprised that I haven't actually stumbled across an M44 in my travels. Because, I've seen the signs and I know they are out there. Ely seemed to have a particularly heavy concentration, year after year, as far as just the signs.
I'm conflicted, yes I like to hunt coyotes but I don't like to see them pursued like scorched earth. I like coyotes, but I also like to hunt coyotes, and hate to see one get away. But, that's the contest; me versus them. If some other people or agencies are involved, I pretty much root for the coyote....but I'm not the one suffering any economic hardship so it's easy for me to say. It's like the attitude of the bunny huggers, leave all the animals, (God's creatures) alone, no hunting and just let them live free, etc etc. In other words, unrealistic. Naive, too, since they don't understand game management.
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: yes, ko ko. You've nailed it!
[ March 20, 2017, 05:45 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 24, 2017, 05:41 AM:
Here's an article emailed to me this morning from some guy named "prune picker" Thank you!
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/03/21/usda-must-rethink-cyanide-bombs-that-injured-boy-killed-pets-lawmaker-says.html
Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on March 26, 2017, 06:41 PM:
Not enough information available to know who was in the right or who was in the wrong.
Most important question to me is, was it placed on public land near a development where you would expect the public to frequent. IF it was set on public land near a development where you would expect someone to walk their dog, legal or not, that lapse in judgement by the one who placed the M-44 threatens the legitimate use of the tool for everyone.
Most ADC professionals are very cognizant of where to place M-44s that it won't cause problems with the public. I personally killed 2 domestic dogs over the years accidentally and one was a very good stock dog. In both cases it was a trespassing neighbor who may or may not have had the right to be there that cut across the pasture no where near any gate signs and by the time they would have read the M-44 sign marking the M-44 site it was too late for the dog. After those incidents, I called every neighbor within 2 miles to make sure they knew they were there.
The use of M-44s is highly regulated with 26 EPA use restrictions placed on them which regulate when, where, and how they can be placed. Being legal doesn't mean being ethical and practicing common sense.
Again, not enough information but if it was on public land and near a development area where you would expect someone to walk a dog, the placement was absent common sense.
~SH~
[ March 26, 2017, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 27, 2017, 05:41 AM:
Well, they already stated that the device was placed within 500/600 yards of the victim's house. That right there suggests that somebody didn't exercise due care and diligence.
There was a case out here that involved cage trapping of bobcats on federal land, except the people living in the area considered it to be common public land adjacent to a National Park, Joshua Tree. These people's property butted up to BLM and National Park and the cages were placed legally. However, that didn't matter to those that thought all God's creatures should live in peace and harmony. Guess who lost? Somebody that THOUGHT they were within their rights but the OPTICS tripped them up. Me personally, I think the legal, licensed trapper fucked up by not considering that people wander in the desert and are only vaguely aware of boundaries. So, they are walking, in what they regard as their back yard and they see a poor, scared bobcat in a trap, a cage. Indignation ensues. Now, the whole trapping policy is under reevaluation.
Anyway, to me there has to be a compelling reason to place these traps anywhere that domestic animals can possibly wander. Just for openers, 600 yards doesn't seem prudent? Actually, I can see a situation where the kid sees the getter and calls his dog over to help him investigate. The kid could be dead, and it's obvious that highly regulated 26 EPA restrictions didn't work very well; as any dummy can understand via the results.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 28, 2017, 05:12 AM:
I got this email this morning. Apparently there are kooks that read this site other than our dedicated people. Whoever he is, he has the idea that a dog's life should be weighted over a human. Don't get me wrong, I've had dogs and I have mourned their passing, but human life is on another level altogether.
Well, he can't grasp that. Read it and weep, and excuse the language, please.
quote:
Dear Adminstrator,
I sadly read on your site about the pet dog getting killed by a M44. Here's what I'd do to any no good mother fucker, this includes a hired gun govt trapper that would happen to kill my dog with either a M44, Snare or Trap:
If you killed my dog with a M44, I would grab the mother fucker and shove his face down on a M44 so that the cyanide poisoning would get into his mouth. Make the fucker give a deep throat bj to the device
If you killed my dog with a Snare, I'll put a snare around the mother fuckers neck and pull real hard
If you killed my dog with a trap, I'll drag the mother fucker out in the middle of the desert, stick his fucking foot into a bear trap and leave the mother fucker out there.
Trailer park mother fuckers have no right, regardless if it's legal to be setting indiiscriminate killing devices.
Thanks for your time,
Darrell
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 28, 2017, 05:34 AM:
Him seems to be a manly man what with all that dragging out into the desert & such and yet, five will get you twenty there's a Hillary bumper sticker on his car.
Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on March 29, 2017, 07:03 AM:
Darrel,
Keep your dog on a leash and you shouldn't have to worry about your dog getting caught in a snare, trap, or M-44. Most traps won't kill a dog. I have let domestic dogs loose from my traps many times and they might limp for a half hour then go on their merry way EVEN WHEN THEY ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE THERE.
If you allow your dog to run free and it ends up chasing my cattle on my land, which most roaming dogs do, it will be shot on sight and you can watch for all I care.
So think about that from your high and mighty "I care more than you do" animal worshipping throne.
If you eat meat you are paying someone else to do the killing for you. If you are a vegan, your vegan diet contributes to the destruction of wildlife habitat and the biological desert that is required to grow those vegetables.
Think about that you arrogant ass!
The "trailer park" comment pretty much tells everyone what an elitist SOB you are. But letting your dog lick your face after it licked it's ass tells a different story.
~SH~
[ March 29, 2017, 07:14 AM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 29, 2017, 07:39 AM:
Hey, that's a pretty good response, Scott.
I can tell that the writer, Darrel has been fed a certain party line propaganda. The "macho" stuff is all fake. I doubt he has actually been in the outdoors, where they don't mow the grass and it's required to pick up after his dog.
Anyway, if he read it once, maybe he will see the response, and want to put a snare around your neck and pull real hard. You should be scared!
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on March 29, 2017, 07:54 AM:
You know, I have a housecat Im pretty fond of...so.. Im with my buddy Darrell.
Im with you Brah!
Mark
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 29, 2017, 11:43 AM:
I think it's his other bro, Darrel.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 29, 2017, 09:42 PM:
The guy is monitoring the site. Anybody want a penpal?
Re: M44 Cyanide bastards
From Darrell Kuni flykuni@mail.comhide details
To nbosin nbosin@aol.com
There are some people I'd let drown before a pet goes under. I know you feel same way, too.f Don't deny, Dont lie you sum bitch
Cock suckers who indiscriminately set death devices like M44's, Snares and Traps need to be stopped. They catch my dog, all bets are off. They better run, hide and yet I will be hot on their trail.
Those Utah and Wyoming govt fucker trappers, what the fuck! spending millions of taxpayer cash to kill a few coyotes so that they can save some sheep for a welfare rancher. Fuck the worthless sheep, they're not worth killing someones pet and then that guy goes hunting the govt trapper.
Govt scum trappers should get an honest job.
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 30, 2017, 03:23 AM:
Yeah I'm with Scott if some dog is out chasing our sheep collar or not that dog is getting a bullet wouldn't even hesitate or lose a minutes sleep over it.
Posted by NVWalt (Member # 375) on March 30, 2017, 04:14 AM:
I love to read such dribble from the likes of righteous "animal" lovers. And the threats. As for one, they no doubt haven't a clue as to whom they believe they are messing with. We do have many years experiance out here in the brush and to think you can play cat and mouse with one of us is not to bright. Just saying. An idiot like that wouldn't stand a snowballs chance in Hell messing with any of us out in the brush and could very easily "disappear" off the face of the earth . I do believe in SSS. And NO we don't play foolish games while in the brush!
Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on March 30, 2017, 05:03 AM:
Cyber muscle, gotta love it.
Simple solution Darrel, keep your dog on a leash. Any respectable pet owner would care enough about their pets to do that which is precisely why many places have leash laws.
As far as hounds that are trained to hunt, most are tracked with GPS correction collars which gives the owner the ability to keep track of their dogs and correct problems that might occur.
Of course you don't care about what kills livestock, as long as your dog can run free on public land. Wonder what your dog would do if it caught a rabbit or ran across a newborn fawn. I am sure in your Bambi world it would probably lick the newborn fawn, right?
My recommendation for you is to turn your dog loose in Yellowstone Park for a nice little run and watch him play with the wolves. You will get the lesson you really need to learn. When the wolves get done with your dog, you might recognize part of the collar that should have been attached to the leash you should have been holding. Then you can cry in your beer about how the wolves have no right to interfere with your dogs daily frolic in the woods.
NEWSFLASH: The lion does not lay down with the lamb. The lion kills the lamb. The bambi world portrayed in your PETA propaganda does not exist. Get out of your concrete and asphalt jungle and learn something about life and death.
Animal worshippers ....... sheeesh!
Lone Howl, no problem with your cat. I use enough pan tension that your cat won't set the trap off. Your cat will walk right through a coyote snare or under it. Cats won't pull an M-44.
Sooooo.....I guess I'll just have to leave a few coyotes to take care of your roaming cat. Maybe Darrel can learn something about free roaming pets when a coyote stretches your cat out after it ate a meal of rare songbirds.
~SH~
[ March 30, 2017, 05:06 AM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 30, 2017, 06:07 AM:
I think it's the Disney Syndrome. Animals are little people in fur coats. People like Scott and Cal deserve to be shot for their cruelty to animals, they probably spend their spare time pulling the wings off of flies? Hunters "might" get a pass as long as they eat what they kill....and if they were starving. Not too sure about that because they can always get their protein at McDonald's, like everybody else.
But, there is a fake reality just like Hello Kitty. Humans are basically cruel, especially to things like kittens and puppies. And, cartoon animals really can talk, I've seen it myself.
The best thing for this type would be to live on a farm or someplace where they see how Nature really works. Darrel loves his dog. How sweet!
You guys be careful or Darrel will come over and kick your ass!
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on March 30, 2017, 06:58 AM:
Thanks for the info Scott...now I can rest easy, my cat can frolic and play in the wilderness at will with not a care in the world.
Perfection.
Mark
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 30, 2017, 08:34 AM:
Yes, good to know. That really had me worried!
But, if we must keep our canines on a leash, why not felines? It's fun dragging them around by a leash. Life is not fair!
Not knowing better, I raised my cat as a dog, because he didn't know any better, either. He would hear me pull into the driveway, come out the side door, talking to me all the way. I would open the driver side door and he would hop up onto my chest and greet me. Not just occasionally; most every day that I went to work and came home. He was my buddy. There may never be another quite like him. I'm basically a dog people, but cats can be ok too.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on March 30, 2017, 12:14 PM:
I could have used Darrel last week. I had two lambs Ive been raising for the last four months, and had to get them to the butcher shop.
I have no stock trailer, and the shop is only 15 minutes away, so I just kill here, then toss in bed of truck and haul to butcher.
These two lambs have been very affectionate, living in my back yard, and readily approached the wife and I to get their heads scratched and rubbed all over....nice lambs.
So last week, I strolled out in the back yard with 10/22 in hand, scratched their big heads, then backed off three feet, lip squeaked, and summarily placed a bullet in their forehead, then slit their throats when they hit the ground.
This is how stuff goes down on the home farm, not fun or exciting, but we enjoy lamb chops.
Darrel might have needed a tissue after the murderous scene I suppose?
[ March 30, 2017, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: Az-Hunter ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 30, 2017, 04:45 PM:
Yeah, he's coming for ya....
quote:
Mr. Administrator
Regarding public lands, a hounds man or a bird hunter has as much right to free cast and hunt with their dogs as anybody, kid, guy or govt trapper has rights to set traps.
I speak for 1,000's of other hunting dog owners that will, if pushed into a corner, fight tooth and nail with the trapper. Catch one of our dogs, mangle or kill it because they left a destructive device sit alone with no guidance willing to kill any thing that stepped into it, and the trapper, regardless of kid or paid assassin, will have a severe ass kicking coming there way. Kids, we'll give them a pass and go find their daddies and smak them around. Adult perps, you're going down mother fucker. Spread the word to your members and advise them to watch out
govt predator control, WHAT A WASTE OF FUCKING TAXPAYER DOLLARS.
over and OUT
Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on March 30, 2017, 07:23 PM:
Darrel: "Catch one of our dogs, mangle or kill it because they left a destructive device sit alone with no guidance willing to kill any thing that stepped into it...."
Foothold traps do not kill what steps into them you moron.
The foothold traps that I and most trappers use will not harm any dog that is caught in them. The traps I use have laminated thick jaws and they will do nothing more than hold your dog until you let them out. I have caught my own dogs repeatedly. These traps have passed International BMP standards for humaneness.
The only thing you need to know is to hold your dogs jaws shut in the process so he doesn't bite your dumb ass while you step down on the levers to release him.
Second, if your dog has ever been tied up, he shouldn't fight a snare. If your worried about it, get a snare and train your dog not to pull on it instead of making threats about what you are going to do to someone who kills your dog in a snare because your too much of an idiot to prevent it.
M-44s set for livestock protection will not be set without gates being clearly marked. You find an M-44 set without gates being clearly marked, then you have a legitimate complaint and a serious violation of the law. A well marked gate means, on some rare occasion, you might have to drive a little further down the road. HOW INCONVENIENT!!!
GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT and quit listening to anti trapping PETA propaganda bullshit. PETA and HSUS are nothing more than money making scandals that prey on people's emotions. If you had one active brain cell you would know that.
Quit spreading lies about traps and trappers.
You are absolutely right that you have as much right to be on public land as any trapper. NO MORE, NO LESS!
You start threatening the life of a trapper, you better damn sure bring your A game. Survival is second nature to most trappers and every trapper I know is packing.
Having fun Leonard??
~SH~
[ March 30, 2017, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posted by NVWalt (Member # 375) on March 31, 2017, 02:56 AM:
I love it. Like I said .The brush is no place to be playing stupid games.You might not like the results.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 31, 2017, 04:57 AM:
Good morning, All.
Well, this dink won't quit and this time he wants to join Huntmasters so he can straighten us out on a few issues.
I see no value? I knew a man once that talked just like he does. In fact, I sold him my old 270. Don't know why he wanted it, he was neither a hunter or shooter. What he was, is a murderer. I heard later that he killed somebody in a little dive bar in Vernon and last I heard, he was in prison. Same kind of equate his pet animals and anger and an unrealistic concept of his abilities.
It's already a Mexican Standoff. He 's not going to convince anybody and we aren't going to convert him either. But, no. He won't be allowed to join and this is his last contribution you will see because it's getting old.
quote:
Dear Sir,
Why don't you just accept my application to join your site so that I can go face to face with your minions?
The next so called welfare govt trapper that tries to tell me that you can "Brake" a dog from entering a conibear or snare, avoid legholds and M44's and I'll have the pleasure of calling BS on them.
Trappers are the sneaky, slithery sort. That's why the poke around setting traps here n there instead of pursuing game fair chase. none of them scare me and they best pull their traps and call it a day
I love shooting traps, busting springs with rocks and snipping snare cable. Booya!
586976_589
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 31, 2017, 08:24 AM:
So...............by his 'logic' since he doesn't agree with trapping it's ok for him to destroy other people's property and by the same token, it should be ok for me to pop the wheel weights off of vehicles with PETA bumper stickers ???
He's a punk that has a lot of growing up to do.
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 31, 2017, 08:53 AM:
LMAO, here's who Leonard's email troll really is:
LINKY
He works for the LA Times:
LINKY
Any Wyoming guys familiar with Heart Mountain?
Well, looks like Mr. Darrell happens to be on the Board of Directors:
LINKY
So...THAT is the guy who's talking tough LMAO!!!
you just can't make this shit up!!!
[ March 31, 2017, 08:56 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on March 31, 2017, 09:23 AM:
A Fucking badass...no doubt.
[ March 31, 2017, 09:24 AM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 31, 2017, 09:27 AM:
I wonder? He shows up the same day I stop online registrations. Maybe he is responsible for a thousand bogus membership applications?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on March 31, 2017, 11:53 AM:
Dammit Fred, you stole my thunder......I would have used the hippie pic anyway
Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on March 31, 2017, 05:12 PM:
You can't be serious? It's CRINT EASTREAD!
CRICK, CROSE A RID ON TOIRET!!!
~SH~
[ March 31, 2017, 05:32 PM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 31, 2017, 05:18 PM:
Oh that's BAD, Scott! You FLUKIN ALMELICAN PLICK !
Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on March 31, 2017, 07:06 PM:
Hey Reonard, he rooks arot rike bruce ree?
Maybe Sirvester Starrone?
Good thing for me he not rook rike Brock Resner!!
Prorry make me shover own grave in desert.
~SH~
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 01, 2017, 05:17 AM:
Now he's going to think we have something against Asians, other than that little Pearl Harbor episode and got their ass kicked and now we haven't heard a peep since, until this tough guy showed up. You'd think they learned?
Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on April 01, 2017, 06:25 AM:
Nothing against Asians, just him, his intolerance for trappers, and tough guy cover.
~SH~
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 01, 2017, 09:29 AM:
I agree with that. I'm actually pretty positive about asians in general. They are smart and have a strong work ethic, and respect their elders. They seldom apply for free stuff like food stamps and are generally college educated. They have a small representation in prison population, too. Not crazy about the food, though, and what's with serving the food in a lacquered box? Most of the Nisei couldn't use chopsticks if you held a gun to their head. Then, there's the persistent rumor about little dicks....
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: (just trying to smoke him out)
[ April 01, 2017, 09:30 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Bryan J (Member # 106) on April 01, 2017, 10:14 AM:
Thank you Cal and SH for your comments. I struggled to understand how if the kid set the device off how the dog ended up dead.
A sad deal that could have been prevented with a little communication, and I don't place all the blame on the trapper either. Growing up with a neighbor that runs 2500 ewes you know that it isn't a good idea to let your dog get familiar with the sheep pasture if the sheep are there or not. The dog will get loose at some point. Once you step off your own property unmarked hazards exist. This one should have been, and part of me thinks that it was the sign that drew the attention of the young man.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 01, 2017, 10:48 AM:
That's an interesting idea. The sign aroused his curiosity, so he went looking for it.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Bryan J (Member # 106) on April 01, 2017, 01:15 PM:
Confession time I guess. The only reason that I know that there are more than the sign on the gate is because I saw a sign from a distance and I went to see what it was. I would assume others could be drawn to it the same way I was.
Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on April 01, 2017, 01:51 PM:
I agree Leonard. I too have a lot of respect for most Asians for many reasons of which the most is their general professionalism and respect for others. That is exactly why this was such a huge surprise. As far as making fun of the way many of them talk, I am German and anyone who can write the chermin accent makes me laugh like Steve Allen used to. As anyone can see, Darrel was an arrogant ass and deserves no respect. No apologies.
Bryan,
You are correct that many of us have argued that the signs placed at the M-44 actually invites problems that would not otherwise occur. It also invites sabotage from the Darrels of the world. By the time anyone reads it, their dog is already dead. The gate signs on all entrances are the priority.
I had this happen to me in the case where the neighbor crossed the neighbor with his horse and dog and the landowner did not inform him about the M-44s and he had not seen the gate sign on the other end of the pasture. He lived just over the hill but his house was hidden from view by a hill. I had no idea he lived that close. In hind sight I should have handled it differently with an apology even though I did everything correctly. I should have been more understanding for the loss of his pet instead of being defensive about being perfectly legal. It was a bad deal that still bothers me.
Only way to prevent that from happening again was to start telling the landowners to contact any of their neighbors with a dog that might be on their property or by calling the neighbors myself. Certainly don't want to kill a neighbors dog by accident even if they are trespassing unless it is a problem dog that the livestock producer wants to get rid of. In that case, it becomes an issue for the local Sherriff, not us.
All of us try to mark every possible entry gate with a road or trail that could be used. Most ADC men don't like to use M-44s unless we feel the adverse risks are low and then usually only from Feb. - April. Although you can use them year round, they are most effective in those months.
Here is something that happened to me once. I was investigated by the WY Department of Ag for trying to go the extra mile regarding safety. I was working a piece of ground where there was no fence that separated private land from public land. The access gates were marked on both ends of the ranch leading into private property but there was also the rare possibility of someone taking an ATV or UTV across the public land down a two track trail into the private land. I placed an M-44 sign on the access gate into public land LEADING TO THE PRIVATE LAND. I forgot about that sign after I pulled the M-44s and my other gate signs and someone reported me for setting M-44s on Forest Service land. I was investigated. The investigation didn't set very well with me because I was trying to avoid problems with anyone who trespassed onto the private land which was not marked. Technically, one of the 26 use restrictions requires you to mark all entry gates which this was. I also see how it implies that the M-44s were set on public ground without authorization.
My defensive response was, "ok, I will mark the private land and if someone trespasses onto the private land from FS land because it is not marked and their dog gets killed, Oh well, you didn't want a sign on the FS gate so the blood is on your hands".
Of course I would get the hammer regardless so cooler heads prevailed and the consensus was to put a gate sign along the two track trail leading from the public land to the private land. This meant driving a steel post in rocky hard frozen ground and attaching a sign for the trespassers. I opted not to set there again because it wasn't a very effective spot anyone and I was picking the coyotes up readily in snares.
The "presumption of guilt" attitude of the investigation really pissed me off.
~SH~
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 01, 2017, 02:31 PM:
Yeah, good post and it sort of demonstrates a completely different attitude of the Wildlife Services agent, compared with our little friend's accusations. You know, I'm not a fan of these M44's myself. But, these land owners pay for support and some of them are scorched earth about any coyotes on their property. Some aren't. I've personally run into ranchers that wanted coyotes for keeping the smaller critters under control, so it takes all kinds.
One thing seems clear. The incident that started this whole thread involved "mistakes" and instead of being a watertight situation, there may indeed, have been some negligence. Look, it's a bad deal and nobody defends what happened. I love dogs and understand losing a pet, especially under such freaky circumstances.
90% of the members here are sport hunters and aren't particularly crazy about "animal control" by the professionals, other than acknowledging that it's necessary in a lot of cases. Especially since they concentrate on seriously problem animals with which we amateurs wouldn't know where to begin.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Bryan J (Member # 106) on April 02, 2017, 11:05 AM:
Thanks Wiley, I'm sure the guy in Idaho is going through a similar investigation, and feels as bad or worse about the incident. From my conversations with the old man of the operation next door, who would like to see M-44's year round, our local trapper's use seems to mirror what you have shared. What would have happened if this were a foothold, or snare? (assuming media coverage)
From my "presumption of innocence" point of view. I don't know that all the communication responsibility is on the trapper. If the parents or young man would have talked to the producer in an "Is it alright if...." tone the producer would have been aware of the need to inform. I just see too many people moving out to the sticks from the city with the attitude if it doesn't have a home with a well manicured lawn it is a just a field, just a pasture, or a playground.
I guess this unfortunate incident is just another example of how far behind agriculture is in educating the public about what we do, and why we do it. If it is predator control, GMO's, ect...
Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on April 11, 2017, 07:09 AM:
http://www.ktvb.com/news/local/idaho/us-temporarily-bans-use-of-cyanide-predator-traps-in-idaho/430248816
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