The New Huntmastersbbs!: Shooting a new recurve...

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Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on July 12, 2014, 03:03 PM:

Tuning up a new bow this afternoon. Couple different 20 yard broadhead pics. I was impressed with myself, so I quit while I was ahead.
Mark

Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on July 12, 2014, 03:51 PM:

Nice looking bow , what make is it?
Good shootin btw.

Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on July 12, 2014, 04:01 PM:

Looks tight, Mark!
+1 for bow info, and are those VPA broadheads?

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on July 12, 2014, 06:58 PM:

Looks like you got yourself a shooter !!!!

We need more info;
Draw weight / arrow size & weight.
Make of broadhead.
All that good stuff.

Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on July 12, 2014, 07:49 PM:

Bob Lee "Natural" model. Birdseye maple limb veneers, shedua and maple riser with birdseye and black micarta overlays.. 64 " and 55 lbs at 30" draw.
Shoots like a champ.

Arrows are black Goldtip .340's. 31 1/4". 225 gr up front total,including Stinger 125 gr 2 blade broadheads.

Same setup (different recurve) zipped thru a (admittedly small) California muley/blacktail last year like butter. Complete pass thru at 25 yards.
Mark

[ July 14, 2014, 08:42 AM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on July 13, 2014, 02:55 AM:

Am I reading this right ??
225 gr. shaft & 125 gr. b/h for a 350 gr. arrow weight out of 55lbs ??
That should be a pretty fast set-up.
(I know next to nothing about carbons. The Easton 2213 is my `go to` shaft for most of my bows.)

I learnt a neat new trick on my last camping trip.
(1) Find out what the maximum distance your set-up will shoot is.
(2) When you're in camp, discretely range prominent objects like off colored trees or bushes that are at your max. range. Pick one for a target & keep it in mind.
(3) When the practice session starts at normal distances and the b-s gets knee deep, casually suggest a couple of shots at whatever target you've picked out.
If you shoot decent line, it's a tough act to follow even for the wheel-bow guys.
[Big Grin]

Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on July 13, 2014, 06:32 AM:

I haven't shot my black widow in several years. Don't know if I could hit a bulls-ass much less a bulls-eye with it anymore. Now with my Mathews, I only shoot one arrow per spot with broadheads. those fletches will shave right off.

Reminds me, I have to build another string and buss for my Mathews

Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on July 13, 2014, 09:12 AM:

No 225 grain total point weight, made up of 125 gr. Broadhead and a 100 gr. brass insert. Then you have your shaft weight on top of that...which for me is about 280 ish.
Tuning carbons for trad bows is different than compounds.
Mark

Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on July 14, 2014, 02:48 AM:

That's funny Dan I had ruined more than one arrow shaving the fletch off trying Robin hood shots with my Mathews , gets expensive.

Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on July 14, 2014, 03:18 AM:

Really good looking setup and it's obviously working. Looks like fun! My Bob Lee has been neglected for a long, long time now. Has not been strung in years. Never shot anything but cedar with it. Got a bunch of PO shafts that have to be going on 50+ years old now - from the original Rose City mill.

- DAA

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on July 14, 2014, 04:36 AM:

Ah, the joys of cedar !!!
I used to buy the shafts in bundles of 100.
The super straights got broadheads.
The straights got field points.
The expendables got Judo heads.
Nobody does any roving stump shooting with friends anymore; might ruin a $15 arrow. Sad that something that enjoyable has faded away.
Now, cedar costs more than aluminum to begin with and by the time I splice in a hardwood footing the arrows are worth more than the bow. [Eek!]

Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on July 14, 2014, 07:31 AM:

I shot cedar and a couple other woods for awhile, aluminum too, but switched to carbons and like em the best overall. A little touchy for tuning sometimes though.

I gave up compound bows bout 10 years ago, went back to traditional stuff. To me it is just way more fun to shoot, and simpler, lot less bullshittery to mess with.

I also tried to give up archery for a couple years, but like calling...when the season starts to roll around, I get the itch.
Mark

Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on July 14, 2014, 08:31 AM:

This will be the first time in about 30 years I have not even made an effort to archery hunt.

Reasons are multiple and the decision was a sad one, but, it is what it is.

I do hope to get back to it someday. The mule deer bowhunt has always been not just my favorite hunt, but my favorite thing to do, period.

Things have sure got to be sucky with Utah deer hunting though.

- DAA

Posted by booger (Member # 3602) on July 14, 2014, 08:43 AM:

Mr. Howl,
Those Stingers are made here in Great Bend by a friend of mine by the name of Mike Sohm who owns Magnus Archery.

It is kind of cool to go visit him in the factory...it is about 10 blocks from where I type this.

Great company--great looking rig you got!

Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on July 14, 2014, 10:13 AM:

Hey...thats cool! Love Stingers! Can you tell him to lower the price though...they are getting expensive lol. (what aint though)
Mark

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on July 14, 2014, 11:24 AM:

Sad to hear that Utah deer hunting has declined. It's been years since I've hunted there, but it used to be awesome. We had a great camping spot on the Warner Lake Loop out of Moab. Good times for all. My wife even killed a deer there with her bow.
Guess that nothing stays the same. [Frown]

Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on July 14, 2014, 11:30 AM:

Dave..could you elaborate a bit? Utah deer numbers way down? Im aware of some of the problems but am oblivious to others Im sure.

Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on July 14, 2014, 03:12 PM:

Deer numbers are fairly stable. But the way you have to draw a tag now, with the state split up into I don't even know how many units, is one problem. I can't even just "buy" a tag anymore.

The number of people is another problem. Utah changed things up a few years ago to where the elk archery and deer archery open on the same Saturday and in the area I have hunted for the last 20 years that has meant WAY more guys out during what used to be the deer only first week. And most of them are elk hunters and clueless fucking elk hunters at that.

ATV's are another problem. If they were used according to existing laws and regulations, they would not be any problem. But it seems like an awful lot of those guys don't pay any attention to the rules and I'm just sick and fucking tired of them riding around where they ain't supposed to be. I mean, SICK AND FUCKING TIRED of them.

I've owned and used ATV's for as long as they have existed. I still own one. I'm a strong proponent of multiple use concepts and motorized access and recreation.

But I'm to the point with ATV assholes during hunting season that I would support a complete, 100% statewide ban on them during big game seasons. I'm that sick of them...

Then, too, and this is a big one... I've been hunting the same area for the last 20 years now. Other side of the mountain from where Koko just mentioned, in the La Sals. The area has just gone to hell in recent years. My camp area, all my honey holes, all the quakies for miles around have been cut down. Lots of other places on the mountain with timber all gone now too. And it's gotten just too popular with people in general, not just bowhunters. The last few years, it has just been crawling with people during the bowhunt.

I've really lost interest in hunting there anymore. It simply doesn't even resemble the place I used to love. But with the way you have to pick your spot about 7 months in advance and try to draw for it, just picking up and moving to a new hunting area isn't near as simple as it once was. And I'm not at all sure where else to go anyway. All the decent places are "premium limited entry". Which, for all practical purposes, are once in a lifetime hunts. I drew out one of those tags for the rifle hunt a couple of years ago, so I have no points built up. It will probably be at least 15 years before I draw another one. I'll be 65 by then...

And, lastly... My kids school schedule changed a couple of years ago. I used to take the family with me for at least the first few days of the hunt, then they'd head home and I'd stay another week or whatever by myself. But first day of school has been either the week before the opener, or the Monday following and it just has not been practical to take them with anymore.

So... After last year, and a week of wishing the trees hadn't been cut down and getting closer and closer every day to murdering a whole family of ATV fuckwads, I just decided to HELL with it. I'm done. It's been a good run. But at least until my youngest is old enough to tell me she's not interested in family vacations anymore, I'm taking the time off and the money spent and doing something other than the bowhunt every summer. This year it was Yellowstone NP and we had a great time. I'm thinking we'll do Glacier and/or Banff next summer.

- DAA

Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on July 14, 2014, 03:40 PM:

Understood.....man, that sucks. Basically, you just described California lol.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 14, 2014, 03:58 PM:

quote:
Reasons are multiple and the decision was a sad one, but, it is what it is.

I KNEW IMMEDIATELY WHAT HE MEANT !

HE DIDN'T NEED NINE PARAGRAPHS FOR ME TO GET THE MESSAGE.

AND, YEAH. DESCRIBES KALIFORNIA.

This is why so many have become fed up with the bureaucracy involved with all fish and game departments, and why many people have drifted towards coyotes....which is another topic we could discuss. Or not.

Good hunting. El Bee

PS I would bet I have not purchased a CA hunting license maybe 3 times in the last ten years.

Posted by Duckdog (Member # 3842) on July 14, 2014, 04:45 PM:

Do you not have to have a license to hunt coyotes in Cali, or do you just hunt elsewhere?

Hey Dave, were you trying to sell those shafts at one time, or am I not remembering right? Seems like I remember a story involved too...Could you refresh my memory?

Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on July 14, 2014, 04:53 PM:

Yes, a bad state of affairs here for sure. LB you are correct about drifting over to coyotes,
wanting something to hunt whenever I wanted is what drew me to them many years ago.

CA is, last I heard, considering putting a season on coyotes and selling tags. What a joke, it is popular so they want to make money from it. It seems non workable to me?

Can't wait to shoot me a grizzly bear!

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 14, 2014, 11:12 PM:

No, there is a presumption that if you are in the field, ipso facto, you need a hunting license, in The People's Republik. You can't say, "hey, I was plinking." Nope, you need a hunting license.

But, to answer the question. I hardly ever hunt coyotes in this state, and when I buy a license, it's to hunt something else, birds or hogs, whatever? There are no restrictions, coyotes are non game. Presently.

Here's the thing. While Kelly can step out after work and kill a half a dozen coyotes before dark; for me, it's always a road trip, at least a weekend, at least 200/300 miles. Pretty much always been that way. By choice.

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on July 15, 2014, 03:45 AM:

Ditto on DAA's ATV rant. Ban the damn things.

El Bee;
Check (and double check) this in the Regs, but I once told a jerk warden in Calif. that I was hunting rattlesnakes during a snowstorm. No license required / limit one a day, two in possession. It's in the Amphibian Regs. (Or at least it used to be. Needless to say, he was NOT amused.
> I normally welcome talking with Wardens and see them as a valuable source of information in the field but this one was a special case.

Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on July 15, 2014, 04:27 AM:

Dang it Dave, that does sound like a load of poop to deal with. I don't blame ya...

One trip my mom took us on as kids was in 1986. Went to the World's Fair in Vancouver for three days, then back to the mainland and climbed aboard the VIA rail for an overnight trip thru the Canadian Rockies to Jasper. I stayed awake half the night, taking in the majestic mountains from the observation car.
And then on to Banff, I recall we did a horseback ride around the Banff Springs Hotel property. I was only a little turd at the time, but could still appreciate the wondrous beauty encountered on that trip. The incredible color of Maligne Lake, spotting mt. goats up high on the rocky ledges, huge muley bucks in velvet, and even seen a grizzly bear on the side of the highway! We also did a tour of the Athabasca Glacier, riding in a souped up Monster truck tour bus! Fuckin' cool shit for a 12yr old kid.

I carried my telescoping rod and little Penn spinner for two weeks straight, and finally had a chance to use it in a little stream outside of Lake Louise. We were at a train station, waiting for our ride back south, and there was a stream running not too far away from the rural station. Was able to sneak away to finally make a few casts , and dadgum it, if I didn't hook up on the 3rd cast!
Was a big rainbow trout, nailed little Mepps Aglia! That fish made carrying that spinning combo around sooooo worth it. The VIA train showed up not long after, and catching trout was icing on the cake of a super journey!
Found out later, that train station was a location for filming the movie, Doctor Zhivago...

In short, DO IT!!!

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 15, 2014, 07:16 AM:

So, I'm sitting here, pondering the above advice. And thinking about the vaunted security getting into Canada. No problem for Dave, he's squeaky clean, but guys like Bill Martz were turned around and refused entry because of a conviction for something or other?

And then, because it's current and topical consider the situation on our southern border! Total clusterfuck by President Dickweed!

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on July 15, 2014, 04:58 PM:

Cool story knockem'

The wife and I made a road trip to Banff about 18 years ago. Beautiful place. I wish we had done more than just driving and had spent more time in the area. Even still, the scenery was impressive.

Back then it was easy to cross the border. Now not so much. My BIL got turned away at the border a couple years back because he had DUI over 20 years ago!

Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on July 15, 2014, 05:03 PM:

Oh by the way good shooting Lonehowl.

I just sold my compound bow last fall, so I'm out of the archery business for now. The simplicity of a recurve or long bow is appealing.

Anybody ever made a bow? I found a stand of yew where I deer hunt and was thinking about trying cutting a stave, curing it, and maybe make something that could fling an arrow. I'm sure there would be lots of trial and error, but the thought of making a bow would be kinda neat.

Posted by Duckdog (Member # 3842) on July 15, 2014, 06:35 PM:

I made this one and a few kids bows.

It's patterned after a Cherokee flat bow, but just a little oversized.
I bought that stave preseasoned and it was supposed to be "select", which meant straight with very few knots.
It showed up bowed side to side really bad with a really bad knot coming out of the side of it.
I guess I looked at it as a challenge. I steamed it back straight, and did a linen wrap on the knot area and it's still fully functional almost 20 years later! [Smile]

This buck isn't much to jump up and down about, but I shot it with all homemade equipment, (excluding the broadhead), and that was my goal, so I was pretty proud of it.
Besides, 20 years ago there wasn't a deer behind every tree either! [Wink]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 15, 2014, 06:42 PM:

I'm impressed, duck dog!

Good hunting. El Bee

PS I won the Archery Gold Medal at Club Med a few years ago, had not picked up a bow of any kind in at least 25 years. Or since.

Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on July 15, 2014, 07:39 PM:

Way cool Duck!

Seriously, that is quite a feat all the way around.

Thanks for sharing.

Posted by Duckdog (Member # 3842) on July 15, 2014, 08:09 PM:

Thanks LB!
I haven't bow hunted for quite a while now, but I still string 'em up and fling a few from time to time. There just isn't enough time during the fall season to do everything I wanna do.

The biggest trick to making a bow is following the grain and I never found a power tool that helps with that without fear of turning it into firewood. So, you wind up spending a lot of time with a draw knife.
The back (away from you) has to be all of the same grain ring because that's what keeps it from splitting or breaking. So you look at the end of the stave and find the ring you want to try then start draw kniving down to it.
With Osage orange, the rings are 2 different colors. The lighter colored rings represent the first spring growth and are considered weaker. The darker rings are after the tree has leaved and grew slow and steady throughout the summer. Those are the rings you want.
So, like I said, you try to "read" the end and locate one that's fairly thick and symmetrical and hope like hell it runs the length of the stave.
TWICE, on my "select" stave I followed the ring all of the way to almost the other end, only for it to thin out and disappear or cut through it!!
It truly is a master test of patience and I'm not sure I've got it in me anymore. [Wink]

Once you have your ring followed from end to end, the rest is fairly simple. The belly is just worked down to whichever design/shape you're aiming for, while keeping the top and bottom as symmetrical as possible so it will have a nice gradual, symmetric arc with no flat spots or "hinges".

I think yew bows are generally worked up as an "English" style which would be flat on the back but oval on the belly.
I'd have to look in some of my old books, but if I'm remembering correctly, I think that design is neccasary with yew.
If you get serious about it Lonny, cut it now then seal the ends with any old kind of sealer. That'll keep it from drying too fast causing it to split.

Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on July 15, 2014, 08:47 PM:

Thanks for the info Duck. I need to do some studying so I can look at a live tree and visualize a decent piece for stave.

I'd read where the time of year you cut a Yew stave can make a difference also. When the sap is down in the winter is best, while other sources said it didn't matter. Any truth to that in your experience?

Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on July 16, 2014, 03:38 AM:

Very cool, Kevin!
Love seeing that level of passion behind project, to see it through and come to a rewarding finish with a beautiful buck! That is some character building stuff, right there!!!

Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on July 16, 2014, 05:07 AM:

That is just way too stinking cool!

- DAA

Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on July 16, 2014, 05:34 AM:

Nice Duck. Dad has a bow made by an old Comanche that he has had for 50 years. Cornbred was the mans name. He couldnt shoot for shit, but he love to watch the arrows fly...

Posted by Duckdog (Member # 3842) on July 16, 2014, 08:53 AM:

Lonny, you'll find that a lot of the "expert" bowyers don't always agree, but I'd say that most of them reccomend cutting in the winter, and the Cherokee tradition is to cut when the moon is between it's last quarter and it's first quarter and nearer to the dark of the moon.
I took that out of a book of mine written by Al Herrin, a Cherokee Indian from Talequa Oklahoma. I don't even remember where I got that book, (it's falling apart now), but he actually wrote his phone number in it and I called and chatted with him when I had questions. I guess that's what we did pre-Internet huh?... [Wink]

Now, having said that, almost all of what I wrote pertains to Osage Orange, (hedge), and yew has a lot of distinct characteristics all it's own.
For example, I think you use the sapwood of a yew tree for the back, whereas the sapwood of hedge is useless.

John Strunk is/was kind of the authority of yew bows in all of my books, and I think he cuts whenever the mood strikes.
I don't have any idea what's out there on the net about self bows, (probably a lot!!), but I would highly reccomended "The Traditional Bowyers Bible Vol 1". It's got everything you'd ever want to know about building a yew bow.

Kelly, I'd love to see that old Comanche bow if you ever get a chance to take a picture. A lot of those old Osage bows are almost black from the oils seeping to the top. I never knew hedge had that much oil in it until I started handling it. It stains your fingers while you're working it.
I think some of that "black" in the old bows also comes from the fact that they preferred bear and hog fat to seal them.

Posted by Duckdog (Member # 3842) on July 16, 2014, 09:04 AM:

...I used to hunt with a guy that was full blood Kickapoo. His Dad's first and middle name was Calvin Coolidge! I always thought that was funny, but I think naming for presidents might have been pretty common.
My mom did some tracing of the family tree and there were a few "George Washington" names in there.

Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on July 16, 2014, 03:47 PM:

Hats off to you DD that is quite an undertaking and a beautiful finished product. Any animal taken with a self bow is a prize. That must have been very fulfilling.

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on July 16, 2014, 08:12 PM:

Awesome taking game with a bow you made yourself.
I never had the urge to build my own bow but I can't remember the last time I shot a `store bought` arrow.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 17, 2014, 08:42 AM:

Even so, that's a lot of whittling.

When I was about 6 or 7, I was bugging my dad for archery stuff. I don't know why, never discussed it with him but one day he brought me a long piece of wood, and I already had a jackknife.

But, this was OAK, and man, I hacked at that chunk of wood until I got discouraged, without any input or advice whatsoever. As I recall, I only carved on one side but it completely cured me. No sander, no tools at all except a friggin' jackknife.

End of story. El Bee

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