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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on April 10, 2014, 06:20 PM:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhJ6H9vlEDA#t=139

People had better start giving a damn.

I've read a LOT of books the past few months. Admittedly, they're all written as fiction, by Matthew Bracken, A. American, John Wesley, Rawles, and the like. All portray what each author sees as the evolution of America going down the shitter. When you see video like this, it makes you wonder just how much fiction these books are about.

What I'm reading in the books and seeing in the nation today is like my outlook on organized religion. None of the authors - none of the religions - are totally right as to what is going on, but taken together, the sum total likely portrays a pretty accurate picture of the truth.

Imagine an organized assault on these agents and the outcome. Scary shit when you think of the possibilities.

[ April 14, 2014, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
 

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Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on April 10, 2014, 06:40 PM:
 
Agreed. What a bunch of ass hole law enforcement. I read that they had snipers on scene, weapons trained on the family, while gathering up some of thier cattle.

I have 0 respect for these agencies and the people that do this shit.

Edit: This shit would NOT be happening if this family were anything but white.
Just putting it out there.

[ April 10, 2014, 06:53 PM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]
 

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Posted by Moe (Member # 4494) on April 10, 2014, 06:57 PM:
 
Disturbing. What I'd like to know is when did the BLM acquire armed agents? Are their weapons loaded with illegal hollow point projectiles? And snipers??? WTF???

Those agents working against citizens when they're supposed to be public servants. Something is screwed up big time.
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on April 10, 2014, 07:20 PM:
 
Without a doubt. Winds of change are in the air, it's all around us. If you choose to see it.

Sadly many do not...
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 10, 2014, 07:31 PM:
 
Moe, I would think you had had contact with those NAZI Rangers before. Anybody heading north out of Baker toward Shoshone is being monitored coming and going. They stop anyone they please, especially if they look like hunters. I think they figure it's an easy bust for a loaded weapon?

But, they (Rangers) are stopping guys on the Interstate or anyplace else and acting very aggressive. They have been around for a long time. Expect to be monitored in the east Mojave and don't even think of getting off the road they will but you, and bust up your stand too.

Yeah, it's like this.

Now, I have sympathy for the tortoises but it's a device. And the Army wants to expand Ft. Irwin so they are rounding up tortoises and relocating them. But, you take a tortoise and put it in a strange place where they don't know where to get food and water, guess what? They die.

And, I wouldn't be surprised if that's the intention. Get Ft Irwin tortoises and dump them on this guys ranch. The problem is, when they get a hair brained idea, (think Fast & Furious) they do it, and citizens had better get the hell out of the way!

Fucking Feds!
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on April 10, 2014, 08:27 PM:
 


[ April 11, 2014, 05:50 AM: Message edited by: Az-Hunter ]
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on April 11, 2014, 01:16 PM:
 
I hated to once again point to fiction to draw a comparison with reality, but current events are so inline with what leads up to a series of books like Matthew Bracken's Enemies Trilogy: Enemies, Foreign and Domestic, Domestic Enemies: the Reconquista, and Foreign Enemies and Traitors. These authors are all ex-military and have a unique perspective on world politics, domestic insider developments, and projections on what will happen and what will not. When you read these works and compare them with reality, it will keep you up at night.

As is already stated, the winds are changing.
 

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Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on April 12, 2014, 06:29 AM:
 
It seems that Rory Reid son of harry Reid is working on a deal with a Chinese solar maker and that land is part of the deal and this cattle is in the way of Government corruption so lets get them suckers outta there. What the fuck has become of 'OUR' country?
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 12, 2014, 08:30 AM:
 
Yeah, I watched a "Wild Bill" video this morning that said the same thing, they want the land for a solar farm and it's cronyism.

The point is, for me; we don't need these dressed up, COMBAT Federal agents and friggin' snipers. One time I'd like to see snipers deployed against a black demonstration. Silly me, that's not politically correct, is it?

Good hunting. El Bee

[ April 12, 2014, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Aaron Rhoades (Member # 4234) on April 12, 2014, 01:01 PM:
 
I am glad that he had the backbone to stand up to the feds. Good for him. http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25230368/major-development-in-bunkerville-cattle-battle-between-cliven-bundy-and-blm
 

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Posted by Rifleshooter (Member # 3983) on April 12, 2014, 01:44 PM:
 
In an organized rebellion one must accept the fact that you can't win against the US army in a fire fight. You can however win the war if you use proper techniques.

The US army is comprised of US citizens. As such we know every one of them, where they live and who the are related to. If they are targeted by the rebellious citizens the war is over immediately as no combat troops are going to let their families suffer because they are on the wrong side of the rebellion.

Sounds distasteful but is a guaranteed win.

[ April 12, 2014, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: Rifleshooter ]
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on April 12, 2014, 03:58 PM:
 
I'm not pro government by any means, but this guy needs his ass booted off of BLM land. Fucking welfare rancher that won't pay his bills and hasn't for years. I have no sympathy for the thief.
 

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Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on April 12, 2014, 06:02 PM:
 
Yeh,the tactics of the Feds suck but he doesn't deserve a free ride on the land either.Pay or leave.
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on April 12, 2014, 08:05 PM:
 
You know, I have read so much about this whole deal my eyes are crossed. The more I read, the more angles there are to this situation. Basically, I fall with Cal in my thoughts on Bundy. Hell, six months ago, he could have very well been the rancher denying people hunting access to BLM land....who knows. That said, I do have a serious problem with 'first amendment areas', or what ever the .gov assholes invented to physically bully people. I do have a problem with fed gov't excessive powers over states and the corruption that follows. It has also reinforced for me that most anyone with a badge and gun is not to be trusted when it gets down to the 'nut cuttin'; and they generally provide irrational solutions when good ol' fashioned rational thinking is the order of the day. It has also validated my beliefs that our society is getting more and more divided and intolerant of so called big brother. But, most of all, all this has made me realize that Clive Bundy was a poor choice to be poster boy for the 'don't tread on me' half of society.

Maintain

[ April 12, 2014, 08:54 PM: Message edited by: CrossJ ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 12, 2014, 08:23 PM:
 
I have a feeling we are not getting the whole story from either side.

But, it's the tactics that offends me, whether the guy is standing on principle, or he truly is a deadbeat. I would guess that he is correct in the length of time that he has been grazing his cows on that land. If there is some dispute that made him stop paying fees, he must have some kind of legitimate issue, at least to him and it has been going on for (what?) twenty years?

In that time, apparently nothing has been resolved? Maybe the protests are all wet, but the snipers and the way the protesters were mistreated kinda rubs me the wrong way. What the hell did they intend to do with friggin' snipers? Is that the solution? Is there some scenario in which those snipers would shoot somebody? You know, Randy Weaver was a scofflaw and they sure had permission at Ruby Ridge to SHOOT ANY MALE INVOLVED WITH THE PROPERTY!

So, if they were prepared to shoot and miss the target and instead kill Weaver's wife, who started all this shit? Who railroaded the man by paying him to saw off a shotgun barrel? Then charge him for doing it because he wouldn't be a snitch for the Feds.

Anyway, right now, maybe he has not paid for his cows but those snipers hidden in the hills indicate the Feds think it's a damned serious business, and I can imagine some reason for why they would shoot a man for failure to pay fees, which is what it boils down to.

It just seems very similar to Janet Reno and Ilian Gonzales, and Ruby Rudge and Waco. None of that shit needed to go down. Machine guns, searching closets for a little boy? Tanks and CS gas and burning a compound to the ground....because of the"children".

It's all jack booted thugs, as near as I can see. I don't care if the guy stopped paying, the Federal Government shows up in combat gear and were observed targeting demonstrators, following them in their scopes and all it would take is a command and somebody dies.

If it has dragged on for 20 years, it could could stretch out a lot longer before they need to call in the stormtroopers.

Yeah, I give the guy with 140 years a little credit. I don't like government tactics with the combat troops. Sorry.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by NVWalt (Member # 375) on April 13, 2014, 03:10 AM:
 
It is all about stealing the land to put solar panels up . It involved Ried, a worthless piece of shit, and a few others in government that want to get rich and that rancher is in the way of them making more money. All about money , which is all about the government.
 

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Posted by Bryan J (Member # 106) on April 13, 2014, 08:21 PM:
 
I don't know. I look at the failure/refusal to pay the grazing fees as protest against changes the BLM was forced to impose due to the tortuous. That point seems to have gotten lost even in the daughters letter.

It would be nice if the release of water in California to benefit a fish while farms a communities dry up would get half as much attention.
 

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Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on April 13, 2014, 08:36 PM:
 
YES! Thank you.
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 14, 2014, 05:11 AM:
 

 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 14, 2014, 06:39 AM:
 
Obama isn't going to quit. He can't afford to let this guy win.
 

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Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on April 14, 2014, 08:43 AM:
 
How do we start a militia up in here?
Mark
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on April 14, 2014, 10:52 AM:
 

quote:

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Edit: This shit would NOT be happening if this family were anything but white.
Just putting it out there.

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quote:

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There are some very interesting discussion topics arising from these events

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quote:

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Reid may be a crook but so is Bundy.

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quote:

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I do think a fairly large portion of our populace is fed up and pissed off.

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That's kinda where I'm at. I have no interest in re litigating the question. I object to the authority imposed on a peaceful rancher. He might be a deadbeat, he might beat his wife? But the strong arm hiring of wranglers backed up by snipers rubs me wrong.

With the weasel Harry Reid being involved, this moves the needle in a negative direction.

I am very familiar with the area. It's not northeast Nevada, it's extreme southeastern Nevada, Clark County. Not particularly good coyote country, never has been.

Something not mentioned, what with tortoises and solar farms and oil and gas fracking. Water. A very big deal, what with the level of Lake mead going down and Las Vegas not being entitled to any more allotments. They are drilling wells further north like a house afire. And, of course, they need golf courses closer to Las Vegas, and golf courses near Las vegas need grass and grass needs water and that's prime golf course property over in Bunkerville.

We never get the truth. But, the Commando shit is offensive to me.
Not so much on the Bundy ranch as further west around Death Valley. Same agency, BLM Rangers. And, they are very aggressive, there and in the East Mojave. That part I know about, so it's no stretch to conclude they are being obnoxious in the current situation.

Good hunting. El Bee

[ April 15, 2014, 09:50 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on April 15, 2014, 09:50 AM:
 
CrossJ,
I agree with everything you just said.Particularly the growth of the Government(State and Federal)and the add on bureaucracy that promulgates rules via fiat and political inclination vs democratic means.Sad and damn scary.
My point is that none of that has a anything to do with the far rights new Trayvon that wears a cowboy hat instead of dreadlocks.He's not a hero,he's a deadbeat using our land illegally.There is NO 'States Rights' issue here.It's federal land,federal contracts,federal court decisions period.
Nor is there a single constitutional issue involved except the 1st amendment 'protest area' thing which is just that,a result of the protest,not the underlying case against this cowboy.
Yet we have wackos waving the flag for him.Go figure.I figure in large part this,like 'Trayvon' is media(ratings)driven and amped up by one side or another for it's particular view or political goals.Again,there are no States Rights or Const issues here but if anyone disagrees,please name them.
So now what?Should Bundy win?Hell no IMO,throw his sorry ass off.
A mess and hopefully it doesn't get worse.
As to the Federal 'thugs',again I'm sure I'm alone,but I actually feel sorry for the agents,officers,whatever they are cause they are really no different than us for the most part.They have jobs and bosses,families and bills to pay,many likely served with honor,many likely hunt,and I'd bet I'd enjoy having a coffee or a beer with the vast majority of them.So what does America want from them?They,if they enforce Federal Court decisions as they will be ordered to do,aren't taking a position against us,or guns,or ANY OTHER noble cause or constitutional issue but merely moving a deadbeat off OUR land.
Damn tough deal and they don't deserve abuse for upholding our laws.

Edit:Forgot to state a few certainties. Certainly this will be justification for both 'sides'
to buy more arms and ammo,certainly shortages of components and ammo for other legitimate uses will go on and almost certainly this all will lead to bloodshed.Hopefully only wackos on both sides die.

[ April 15, 2014, 10:00 AM: Message edited by: DiYi ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 15, 2014, 10:57 AM:
 
I'm disagreeing with you, DiYi. The part about the federal Thugs are just like us. The hell they are!

These guys are cops, and cops are enthusiastic enforcers, not reluctant. As someone said, they are one firecracker away from machine-gunning the whole crowd of protesting citizens.

I don't like AUTHORITY. Particularly armed authority. Especially combat clad, bulletproof vest, taser waving jack booted thugs.

I think the proper thing is to send the sheriff or U.S. Marshalls who are normally called to evict tenants for non payment of rent.

The fact that this has dragged on for 20 years tells me the Feds have a weak case. They never should have let it go for this long, then bring in the snipers.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 15, 2014, 11:34 AM:
 
GOOD QUESTION


 

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Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on April 15, 2014, 11:48 AM:
 
Wasn't planning on you agreeing with me LB and it doesn't matter.Still a free country and we are all entitled to our opinions and to express them.
You can bad mouth the thugs and I'll have a beer with them,all good.IMO opinion they have and will continue to protect your rights as much as mine even though I'm buying the beer.
Unlike the Cowboy deadbeat,I know and try follow the rules.Here on your private site I understand the only rule is don't piss you off so I'll bow out for now.
Good hunting.
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on April 15, 2014, 01:52 PM:
 
Here's a few words about it from judge A. Napolitano

the judge
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on April 15, 2014, 02:01 PM:
 
I'm in total agreement with DiYi so far. Clive is a crooked son of a bitch and whatever it takes to move him is fine. I have pile of friends that are ranchers and know tons more. Some are great salt of the earth people, some of them are outright crooks and thugs. Just because he's a rancher don't make him a " good guy". His lack of bill paying and bullshit started years ago, long before solar and fracking was even a thought. So I'm not buying into all the reasons for taking his land. It's not HIS land. Never was. It's ours and if he can't pay the pitiful amount of lease per AUM that the BLM charges then piss on him.

[ April 15, 2014, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: 3 Toes ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 15, 2014, 02:41 PM:
 

quote:

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Here on your private site I understand the only rule is don't piss you off so I'll bow out for now.

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DiYi, I want to be completely clear. I have no problem with somebody disagreeing with me. That does not piss me off. Being rude and obnoxious pisses me off. I take a lot of shit, on this site and via email, I promise you.

You have total freedom to state your opinion without fear of me using the edit button or deleting your statements. I don't do that. What I do is; as I did above, I calmly disagree with you. You state your case I state mine and nobody changes their opinion, which, (again) does not piss me off, I rather expect it.

Now, as to the video above with the Judge. I agree with him, e makes a lot of sense. In my ignorant youth, I cosigned a vehicle loan. I was never contacted about it but several years later I refinanced my property and in the escrow process, they discovered a lien on the property for a certain repossessed pick up truck. I had no choice but to accept the conditions which were to satisfy the judgement that I knew nothing about and take what was left of the proceeds, which was still sufficient for my needs.

But, that is the way it works. They can't just hook a tow truck to my vehicle and drive off because of a judgement involving another issue. And, I believe the judge is right when he says the BLM can't round up the guys cattle. They have no right to his property. HE OWES MONEY FOR GRAZING FEES. PERIOD. Put a lien on his friggin' ranch, but don't steal his cattle while the snipers keep him from objecting. The whole thing, the way they went about it is offensive to me.

I don't care if he had his day in court, I don't like the Federal Government thugs taking the law into their own hands. Other than that, (pay attention to this) I agree with DiYi and Cal, He's no poster boy for The Sagebrush Rebellion, piss on him!

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on April 15, 2014, 05:14 PM:
 
I am no fan of the man....but here is what I am talking about.

[ April 15, 2014, 08:31 PM: Message edited by: R.Shaw ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 15, 2014, 06:05 PM:
 
That's a good one, AR. Unfortunately, Democrats are incapable of recognizing these type of discrepancies due to a mental illness.

Anyway, here's a good read on the subject. Not totally one sided, either.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2014/04/why-you-should-be-sympathetic-toward-cliven-bundy.php

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on April 16, 2014, 04:20 AM:
 
Nice story LB and hopefully they can work something out with the family.I mean that.
On the other hand,I hope this guy doesn't write a story about the native americans-we'd all have to move.
 

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Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on April 16, 2014, 04:55 AM:
 
IMO the 'solar' thing is a totally separate issue from years of non-payment but anything that benefits Harry Reid bothers the hell out of me so I keep trying to find out more about it.
A friend sent this too me and while
I have doubts about 'Snopes' I will post it anyway for what it's worth.Hard to know what they are talking about for sure if you don't live there or know the State well geographically.Anyway,sounds like the Chinese project is done but others may be pending.Also sounds like 'County' land may have been,or be,involved????
http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/nevada.asp

[ April 16, 2014, 05:18 AM: Message edited by: DiYi ]
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on April 16, 2014, 07:26 AM:
 
This case does puzzle me a bit. I rarely deal with ranchers, so I have to respect Cal's, Gordies, and all you others that do have experience there.

The vulgar display of power, similar to what happened in Waco does frost my balls though. I don't think I am as cynical as LB about LEO's but probably not too far away from it. I just flatly don't trust the gov't as a collective whole. Yea I know there are some "good guys" out there, but too many turds.

It is a damn shame because I love my country, I just lost almost all faith in our elected leaders. I trust them about as much as the guy standing on the corner trying to sell me some Rolex watches for a great price.

I am curious where this will go from here. I don't think for a second that the gov't is just going to give up. Deal or no deal. Too many big shots got embarrassed.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 16, 2014, 07:40 AM:
 
Yeah, I agree, although I too, am not nearly as cynical as LB.

But, I am particularly cynical about anything snopes has to say about anything. They are fucking Liberals of the first order and as such, confirmed liars. I don't know why anybody would trust snopes to tell them if something is true or not?

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on April 16, 2014, 10:17 AM:
 
There are reasons for the display of power-at least in my opinion.Dig into this a little bit and you'll see lots of threats made against the Gov employees and their families and at least 3 pipe bombs planted and exploded in Gov offices there since 1995.Yeh these guys are real heros.
 

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Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on April 16, 2014, 11:35 AM:
 
Now here's grounds for violence.Those in the North may appreciate it.A mini blizzard going on here as I type.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid3255438759001?bckey=AQ~~%2cAAAAAFdYoqI~%2cXOSXSsnIVNzYpPbBgpj7tnmLJ203RKL7&bctid=3399601721001
 

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Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on April 16, 2014, 12:39 PM:
 
I'm not sure if Bundy is a thug, idiot or a asshole, or ??? But I do know that the BLM is very active these days playing tough guy and placing BLM signs most everywhere they please. I have some land in the Mojave High Desert area and for the past couple of years a friend/caretaker has had more than one encounter with these clowns building fences near "my" water source and claiming the area WHICH I OWN, not lease, as theirs. So form your own opinions as to their right to remove, replace and or claim something that they haven't a clue about. Think water rights when you decide their motive
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 16, 2014, 01:06 PM:
 
Yes, Mike. You are smart fella! I mentioned previously speculation about water and I know first hand, the aggressive attitude of these BLM people in the Mojave Desert, East Mojave and Death Valley. They really act like a land "owner" that works actively to keep the public off the land by intimidation and harassment.

For instance, in the East Mojave National Park, they have taken a position against sport hunters and harass them at every opportunity. They have a policy particularly against predator hunters and only grudgingly accept quail hunters and deer hunters. They scorn coyote hunters and make no bones about it.

On the other hand, they encourage backpackers in shorts wandering around and most of them are foreigners fascinated
with our National Park System. Since East Mojave is the most recent, there is a lot of interest in the wild west and hunters scare these people, afraid they will catch a stray bullet.

I am especially peeved that BLM is catering to FOREIGNERS while harassing American citizens. Sometimes it's hard to recognize my free country while being administered by Liberal assholes and jackbooted thugs.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on April 16, 2014, 01:23 PM:
 
Exactly...fuck them.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 16, 2014, 01:28 PM:
 
Interesting article:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/375851/rule-lawless-kevin-d-williamson
 

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Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on April 16, 2014, 01:52 PM:
 
LB & Mark both posted the motivation of the BLM, WATER! No water no cows, no cows no cowboys. Redistribution or as da pezadent says CHANGE. Does anyone think for a second that some new "G" something or another boss doesn't have some CHANGE in mind on who pays and receives a bribe. BLM sQwat team on standby 24/7 for enforcement.
I truly am surprised it took the ignorant sonabitches 40 years to figure it out. Maybe the last 4+ years and who be running da show these days gotz da ball rollin.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 16, 2014, 01:56 PM:
 
Another little secret, BLM trashed his corrals and water tanks, killed his bulls!

Paid damned near a million dollars to round up his cattle!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/16/feds-accused-leaving-trail-wreckage-after-nevada-ranch-standoff/
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on April 16, 2014, 03:47 PM:
 
Once again.....

It's not HIS land. It never was.
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on April 16, 2014, 03:49 PM:
 
It appears to me to be a typical gov't flustercuck. With Utahs governor and cattle houses saying "NO", they were lost. They just aren't used to anyone stopping them from getting their way.
 

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Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on April 16, 2014, 04:42 PM:
 
Amen Cal.
And he has forced us to spend millions to try get our own land back.As I said there isn't a single Constitutional or States Rights issue involved so all this is over a deadbeat paying up.Now I see they have a new 'strategist 'who says the strategy will be to march the women in front so they'll have to shoot them first.
Great.Nothing like men stepping up for their 'rights'.
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on April 16, 2014, 06:45 PM:
 
Okay Cal and DiYi. Let's start there.

It isn't, nor was it ever his land. But, they are his cattle... tangible property. And yes, for all intents and purposes, the guy was freeloading off federal grass.

Had this been any one of us and we took something from someone else, how would the matter have been handled? How long would it have taken for the matter to be handled and resolved?

Why the militarization of alphabet agencies? And why did they come after Clive Bundy's family and livelihood to this degree?

To me, therein lies the true issue here that needs to be discussed and about which we should be concerned.

When I first started working for our Sheriff's Department, it was as a dispatcher. I was called to work one Saturday night and advised that there were "special units" operating in the county that night and to expect additional radio traffic. This was in the late 1980's and involved what booger mentioned earlier - the Posse Commitatus movement. We had especially stubborn old man who was the patriarch of a large local family and he had refused to pay federal income taxes for a while. And his ass was in a sling for it.

But, they didn't send in 200+ armed federal storm troopers with attack dogs and helos. They sent two U.S. Marshals. Those guys were here for three days and on the third night, when the subject they were after, was away from his home and in a location where taking him down would not jeopardize his family, these two Marshals swooped in and arrested him. No fuss. No muss. They got their man, he was in custody and the courts handled the disposition of any assets he owned as to what he owed the government and how that debt would be paid.

Again, what can we read into the extreme federal law enforcement response in this matter and what does it foretell about how the government intends to deal with anyone who chooses to speak out against them? best to think about this now rather than find ourselves surprised and overwhelmed later.

[ April 16, 2014, 06:53 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 16, 2014, 08:21 PM:
 
If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics sucks.

So did the free loader put out a call or did the "militia" just happen by?

Seems to me there had to have been planning on both sides and the Feds knew there would be armed resistance. Now they want to protest that the Feds brought bigger guns?

Fella's, if you think the dog won't bite, you're mistaken. Poke it with a stick and face the consequences.

And all this over a deadbeat who stole from "we the people".
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on April 16, 2014, 08:56 PM:
 
I don't know all of the facts about this but Cal's opinion carries a lot of weight & that's good enough for me.

I do know that over in this area there are ranchers who don't know the difference between a Deed and a Grazing Permit. Finding Public Land that has been posted is not uncommon.
We also commonly find ranchers posting deeded land in a way that will block access to millions of acres of Public Land. They have the right, but the day will come that it bites them in the ass.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 17, 2014, 12:16 AM:
 
Many years ago, we used to hunt our way south from remote areas of northern Nevada. It was not habitual, but happened enough that we started carrying a four foot pair of bolt cutters.

For their own reasons, occasionally someone would put a lock on a previously open gate, in the middle of nowhere? You have to understand the gas situation where it's not possible to turn around and go back the way you came in, often more than fifty miles of bad road.

Knowing these places to be open range and some "Bundy" has decided to actively protect his stock from someone that left a gate open, he locks it and feels justified.

As a courtesy, we would cut the chain next to his lock, and fix it up best we could. But, when you are out of options, and there is pavement (and gas) a few miles beyond the gate, you do what you have to do, considering this is all BLM and nobody has the right to put a lock on a gate. I don't care how many cows you have.

I think it was/is a very few jerks trying to get away with it, and maybe having the intent to come back in the morning and unlock it? We were usually night hunting and couldn't wait on the possibility that somebody might show up in the morning. In fact, it always seemed to happen when we just couldn't afford to wait around.

Locking gates on BLM is total BS.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by NVWalt (Member # 375) on April 17, 2014, 03:51 AM:
 
Leonard,I have experianced just that very same situation here and have had to cut my way to freedom a few times over the years. But a guy has to do what a guy has to do at times and that's all there is to that.I like it when I come OUT on a road and see a NO Motorized Veh sign on it and wonder where the one was I guess I missed. lol. Here in Nevada it is all about water and energy and locking up the land for profit.Remember VOTE THEM ALL OUT!!!!!!Every one of those worthless bastards.
 

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Posted by booger (Member # 3602) on April 17, 2014, 07:41 AM:
 
My problem with this whole deal is that why have they been screwing with him for over 20 years on the same issue?

Why the heavy handed show of force now?

Apparently, the BLM has won a judgement in Federal Court, so why didn't they just slap a lien on all of the Bundy assets which they certainly had a right to do?

In the scheme of things $1 million to our government is just a pimple on a gnat's ass.

The current director of the BLM is a Reid crony who is a 35 year old punk that doesn't know shit about any type of management, let alone public land management.

My initial blush is that it was a show of force by the good 'ol gubmint to keep the populace in their place, and it had little to do with Mr. Bundy.

The good things that came out of it was that no stupid shits got killed, and the government learned that the public is getting fed up with being bullied.

Guess we will see what we see.

[ April 17, 2014, 07:45 AM: Message edited by: booger ]
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on April 17, 2014, 08:12 AM:
 
I love these guys with the dark tactical glasses and the matching gloves....tough sonofabitches?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ5AzjQF6Kw&feature=player_embedded
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on April 17, 2014, 09:06 AM:
 
A pity that my government doesn't expend as much energy as that protecting the border.


 

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Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on April 17, 2014, 10:19 AM:
 
I don't remember the source(?) but an adult cow drinks appx. 20 gals of water per day, if available. Not sure about the weight/amount of grass it consumes?
According to the Google blog on Cliven Bundy, he is the last of the BLM renters in that area, 1993 was the last year of the land rental in that area. As others have posted he probably is a squatter on BLM land. Has he in the past not allowed others to water their livestock (cows not wild horses)OR, did the Feds decide all the water is needed for the wild horses? Somewhere I read a quote from a G man that said "we don't want his (Bundy's) cows spoiling the area that our wild horses can use". Something is missing! Another typical half assed government operation, with video "poof". I like Vic's You Tube video of the tough guy cop body slamming the Bundy woman!!!! Wow! the only thing missing was a double tap behind the ear while she was on the ground.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 17, 2014, 10:53 AM:
 
I'm no expert, but. I have not seen many mustangs in that part of Nevada. Mostly further north. Could be but the thing is wild horses are the worst plague on the land you can imagine. They compete with all wildlife for graze and water, burros are just as bad and just as much of a nuisance. For anybody to use the argument that cows are drinking water that wild horses need is an idiot! We don't need mustangs, they are a complete blight on the landscape and should be culled, except for the friggin' bunny huggers.

Boy, that takes the cake! Bundy's cows are drinking water needed by mustangs. That's a crock of shit! Mustangs are worthless, we could thin them back to 10% and all desert wildlife would be better off. (end of rant)

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on April 17, 2014, 01:00 PM:
 

 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on April 17, 2014, 01:11 PM:
 
An interesting perspective from someone who was there...

http://www.westernjournalism.com/footage-bundy-massacre/#u7ZA7bwPbxsLEAY0.01
 

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Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on April 17, 2014, 05:41 PM:
 
Like Koko insinuated, I will promise there is BLM land along the southern border that is being subjected to more abuse on a daily basis and all they do is put up "keep out" signs. What Bundy owes is a pimple on the butt of time. He's no schoolboy, he's working the system too. The Fed tested the water. I'm glad they got the response they did. There's gonna be more.

We had a "wild fire" started in a canyon near Sierra Vista last week. It's been contained, but, gee, I wonder how it got started. Bundy's bill MIGHT have covered the cost.
 

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Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on April 18, 2014, 03:08 AM:
 
If they'll pipe bomb,they'll start fires,no doubt.
True american heros.
I'm curious what you guys that think ol Clive is right want the gov to do?
Give him the land?
Forgive his debt?
Both?
Back down to everyone that disobeys court orders? Just white guys that wear a cowboy hat or everyone?
Give all our land away?
Give it to M Bloomberg?
Give it back to Native Americans?(I'd sure prefer that to ol Clive myself)
Honest,I'd like to hear what you want the Gov to do?
Also please tell me what principle is involved here that ol Clive is defending?
Oh,and by the way,who do you think is locking the gates on your land?

[ April 18, 2014, 03:14 AM: Message edited by: DiYi ]
 

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Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on April 18, 2014, 05:37 AM:
 
From what I gather, 'ol Clive is in the wrong, at least, legally. But what chaps me the most is that the current admin. seems to pick and choose which laws and which people they want to enforce the laws upon. In this case though, it seems the gov. has run into some resistance. BUT, why show up with the cavalry and why go so far as to point weapons at legal U.S. civilians and why does Reid call these U.S. civilians "terrorists"? Really going over the line. But why?
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on April 18, 2014, 05:39 AM:
 

quote:

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I'm curious what you guys that think ol Clive is right want the gov to do?

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quote:

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Oh,and by the way,who do you think is locking the gates on your land?

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quote:

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Doubt it though,Nevadans keep electing the SOB.

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Nevada has the same problem as Colorado. Large population in one city, consisting of liberal assholes and they control everything in a state that is by and large, RURAL. Denver rules, Las Vegas rules and they elect Liberal assholes that want gun control and other progressive causes. You want to get something done, send in the SWAT and disperse the Liberals from the cities and give back control to the country people. White people not on food stamps.

This country is going to the dogs. Proof: they elect a weasel like Harry Reid in Nevada!

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: NOTE: Pursuant to AB 60 (ch 524, Stats 2013) DMV will begin issuing driver licenses to applicants who are unable to provide evidence of their status in the U.S. As such, requirements for driver licensing will be modified in accordance with the effective date of January 1, 2015.

[ April 18, 2014, 09:16 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on April 18, 2014, 11:03 AM:
 
Bundy is no more of a crook than the federal government(BLM)They seem to be able to do anything they want with the land regardless of how "we the people " feel about. That son of a bitch Harry Reid is more of a crook than Bundy ever thought of being. Sure Bundy is in the wrong for not paying. But the thought that its not HIS land, is not totally true. "We" tax payers own that public land So Bundy is just as much a land owner of public land than as good ol Harry Reid and the BLM boys. But the government always knows what's best for us.

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on April 18, 2014, 11:24 AM:
 
Does anyone remember the articles in Outdoor Life, Field & Stream, Sports Afield, etc magazines addressing the Locked Gates and Pay To Pass on roads entering into the BLM land in Colorado during Elk & Deer seasons?
Is the Bundy vs BLM fiasco in any way similar?
 

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Posted by Bryan J (Member # 106) on April 18, 2014, 03:43 PM:
 
It was the damned tortoise that ignited this shit storm. The BLM "got fired" around the same time the BLM at the direction of Fish and Wildlife Service renegotiated the grazing contract. (I wonder how that works when the rancher wants to renegotiate in the case of wolves?} You know the adage about fighting for so long you forgot what started it. I think it applies in this case.

I'm not just pissed off about the heavy handed methods of the BLM, I'm pissed that the US Fish and Wildlife Service didn't even seem to be involved. Then Lance left them off of his list to top things off.

What I think should happen. Let Bundy pay his back grazing fees with some interest tacked on at the rate prior to listing of the tortoise. Let him continue to graze the land at rates as if it were not deemed critical habitat.

Much like the wolf the tortoise is nothing but a tool used to get livestock off of our public lands. If we let the government take it back as planned it will just be locked up with limited access.

At least that is the way I see it.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on April 18, 2014, 03:58 PM:
 
Yeah that's my point what gives the government the right to lock up "OUR" land with limited access. And we're supposed to just bend over and take it. The Federal government is the one with no regard to laws. If they don't like an out come they just change the rules. Its bull shit. I really don't think this shit storm has anything to do with Bundy and his grazing fees, people are just getting sick and damned tired of the strong arm of big government. Plain and simple.

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 18, 2014, 05:07 PM:
 
Fish and Wildlife, BLM all of them, the ultimate goal is to keep us OUT. Whoever is directing policy, they are anti citizen, and especially anti-sportsman. I have been saying this for a long time; bunny huggers have taken control of most agencies that affect public access. On the flimsiest of reasons, they arbitrarily close off huge areas.

The recent crap over the Sacramento Smelt, supposedly "endangered" says some activist biologist. So, the whole Central Valley has it's water cut off! I have seen it with my own eyes. Mature orchards, almonds, oranges, pistachios and major row crops are dying due to lack of water. Water that is being diverted out to sea via San Francisco bay. And, these Government agencies claim it's necessary to "SAVE" the Delta Smelt.

I'm telling you, it's just like the settled science of GLOBAL WARMING/CLIMATE CHANGE. It's ludicrous! They can't prove it and even if they could, so what? they just can't get priorities straight....and that's the whole problem with the way the Endangered Species Act is being implemented. It's a bad law, just as bad as Obama Care. It needs major modifications in order to be taken seriously.

We cannot be jerked around like the TVA with the infamous "SNAIL DARTER" that, oh wait, I guess we suddenly found lots of snail darters that these "scientists" told bald faced lies about! Shut down billion dollar projects because some politically motivated government employee told Congress how critical and important this policy would be to the entire Nation, if not the World and the solar system.

It's no question we are being jerked around by "science" whether it's Keystone Pipeline, or drilling on the north slope. Obama has halted offshore drilling and choked off coal fired power plants.

It's about time the government stopped listening to these Cassandra's. We need to look very hard at "scientists" that forecast doom unless we tax carbon emissions, and lot's of stuff I can't think of right now, I'm so pissed off at human stupidity!

End of Friday rant
Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on April 18, 2014, 05:43 PM:
 
A short read...

"
Obama has created his own private army and hidden his 'soldiers' in dozens of federal agencies in the form Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) teams.

Why would departments such as these need their own SWAT: The Department of Agriculture, the Railroad Retirement Board, the Tennessee Valley Authority, the Office of Personnel Management, the Consumer Product Safety Commission, and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service?

“Law-enforcement agencies across the U.S., at every level of government, have been blurring the line between police officer and soldier,” writes Radley Balko in his 2013 book Rise of the Warrior Cop. “The war on drugs and, more recently, post-9/11 antiterrorism efforts have created a new figure on the U.S. scene: the warrior cop — armed to the teeth, ready to deal harshly with targeted wrongdoers, and a growing threat to familiar American liberties.”

We are witnessing the militarization of federal agencies — not to mention local police forces - on a grand scale. With great force they raid homes and businesses of non-violent citizens, as we just witnessed with the Cliven Bundy atrocity.

With dozens of SWAT teams now at his hand, Obama has followed in the footsteps of other Marxist tyrants.

http://www.truthandaction.org/obama-private-army-dozens-of-paramilitary-federal-swat-teams-formed/"

Just a little sumpin-sumpin to stir the turds more.

Now, Bryan, USFWS is listed, under Fish and Wildlife Service.

As for his using the land, as an American citizen I suppose I own part of that place. I sure don't know where my little piece of heaven is, but for the sake of this debate, I want to go on record saying that I am perfectly fine with Mr. Bundy grazing the grass on my dirt as long as he wants and I'll give him that deal for free. I suppose there are a lot of other Americans that would do the same, so you put all our pieces together and consider it all good.

There is certainly some disagreement on this matter. That's for sure. But, if we didn't agree, and sometimes loudly, we wouldn't be Americans. After all, it was a man's willingness to cry "Bullshit!" that started the process of making a new country - THIS country.

And, while we're on that subject, it should be noted that there was a LOT of disagreement amongst the colonists as to just what, if any, sort of a country we were going to make. As I understand it, the ratification of our own Constitution was a big "?" at the time due to the people, and the states, who were "unknowns" as far as their support.

Likewise, lest we forget, those of our ancestors who chose to stand in (armed) disagreement with the Crown were, by definition, INSURGENTS, and the American Revolution was an INSURGENCY, albeit a damned successful one. If Harry "Old Balls" Reid wants to say that I'm a terrorist, then by GAWD, I'll take that as a badge of honor in this instance. There isn't a damned thing in this life which is absolute or cut and dried. People in power lie and the truth is a moving target. You look at what you see, compare it with what you know to be true and decide which side of the fence you're gonna fall. Given everything we know about the Obama Administration today, it seems to me that Bush 43 was right, "If you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem."
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on April 18, 2014, 05:44 PM:
 
Just read my last post and was amused at how pertinent and prophetic my sig line has become.
 

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Posted by Duckdog (Member # 3842) on April 18, 2014, 06:10 PM:
 
Good post Lance
 

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Posted by Bryan J (Member # 106) on April 18, 2014, 06:33 PM:
 
My apologies Lance, mostly ribbing you anyway. It is right where you said it was. Busted, I didn't read the whole list.
 

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Posted by Frank (Member # 6) on April 22, 2014, 10:21 PM:
 
Cdog911 is exactly right in everyone of his posts. Giving law making power to "subordinate" government agencies is the road to tyranny. If we, as Americans, can't control the laws by voting then what do we have? Allowing alphabet agencies to create any law they see fit is gonna lead to bad things. Killin' probly.

All good intentions lead to a set of laws that end up tyrannical.....the shear weight of which will lead to rebellion by Americans.

It's no surprise the attitude of the ranchers to the BLM. And you got to remember that almost every other rancher in the Cliven Bundy area has already been forced off his lands by the BLM created laws. There are many other ranchers who have lost everything without compensation by the BLM created crap ass laws. Cliven Bundy is the last holdout to the taking of lands by the BLM. He is indeed a true American Patriot!

You got to realize the BLM comes on the scene with new rules and regulations that weren't voted on by our lawmakers but put in place by bureaucrats with an agenda. This is the same modus operandi of the former Soviet Union.

It's like obamacare. You either do what we say and buy health insurance from private companies at unaffordable rates or you will find a gun to your head!

The Cliven Bundy family has been ranching these lands since 1870. He was directed to remove his cattle from major portions of the land he, and his family, have been allowed to graze for more than a century. Now, because of the Desert Tortoise, he has to remove his cattle from lands his family has managed for more than a century. That's when he stopped paying the BLM fees.

How would you like it if the feds came to your door and said "Mr Patriot, you no longer have rights to this land and we (the BLM) have decided to disallow you from developing your land or using it in any other way". "You cannot allow any development because there are ponds on your property which are used as flyways by migrating fowl". How would you like it if the BLM came to your door and said, "Mr Patriot, we are taking your lands without compensation because we want to protect the kangaroo rat, the desert Tortoise, migrating water fowl, the snail darter, the matriculated butterfly, and the creosote bush"?

What would you do if you found your family thrown off your lands without compensation as called out for in the constitution? What most people don't know is the feds do not have to compensate you for your losses if the taking of land is for environmental reasons. This was part of a supreme court decision. To me, that is enough to justify killin'.

The problem is these kind of actions by the feds are increasing and becoming more common. This creates an atmosphere of resentment for government that promises to escalate into a shooting confrontation.

I'm on the side of Americans, not the feds and their bullshit laws taking property from Americans without compensation.

I see a major battle brewing, and I hope it happens! It's time for the feds to respect the constitution that created this country. If they don't there's gonna be some killin' going on before too long!

[ April 22, 2014, 11:12 PM: Message edited by: Frank ]
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on April 23, 2014, 08:38 AM:
 
That would all be great, except...........IT'S NOT HIS LAND !!!
How about someone comes up with some bullshit justification to graze cattle on YOUR land without permission or payment ???
No, I didn't think that would work.
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on April 23, 2014, 09:05 AM:
 
No, it isn't HIS land, but it is federal land that belongs to the federal government. And seeings how the federal government is you, me, your neighbor, the guy down the road, it stands to reason that the ground he's grazing is part his, and part the rest of us, as well. He and his family have been grazing that ground for over 100 years. Their business model was built on the existence of access to that federal ground. Bundy managed the ground as well or better than BLM did. When they ceased repairing fences and borders around water tanks to manage overgrazing, Bundy took the responsibility upon himself knowing that it had to be done to protect and preserve the long-term viability of his grazing acres. Without that access, Bundy's livelihood is gone, as is 100+ years of family roots on that spot in Nevada.

To me, this issue is (minorly) stop moving the goal lines by changing rules so people cannot expect to know what the current law is on property owned by "We, the People", and (majorly) the use of excessive force on American citizens by agencies of the federal government who do not, under the law, have police powers and arrest power, let along authorization to act as a paramilitary arm of the same federal government.

No, that rangeland is NOT HIS property, but taking away his grazing rights for the reasons they have given is just the same as taking away his land in the long run. There's no difference in the outcomes if you're Cliven Bundy.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 23, 2014, 10:19 AM:
 
Okay, look. It seems to me that we are getting a little too myopic regarding who owns the land. One of our western National Forests has a motto on the welcome signs: "LAND OF MANY USES".

I think it is understood that within the borders of Federal Land, there is mining operations, timber harvesting and yes, cattle grazing. And, yeah, It ain't THEIR LAND but they have every legal right to be there and to use these lands of many uses.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on April 23, 2014, 10:44 AM:
 
I dunno, he has had 20 years to pay his fees, and didn't. He has had over 20 years of warnings, he could have decreased his herd to a manageable level for the confines of his, deeded land, but chose not to.

I think I know why they shot his cattle though, they must have mistook them for dogs, probably pit bull types.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 23, 2014, 01:14 PM:
 
DanS, you are slowly becoming our resident Charles Krauthammer pundit on HM. Or, maybe Kirsten Powers? Pay's lousy but it's much appreciated.

I would like to get back to the point of order. We are not the jury, in this case. He has had his day in count and if we can believe the reports, (yes, I know, who can say?) he has lost every time.

My problem is not; is he legal and did he pay his fees, it's what is being done about it. I will leave it to the intellects among us to determine right and wrong about the legal issue.

But, do you enforce a court order with 200 SWAT cops and snipers? Do you confiscate his cattle with contract cowboys and pay those cowboys almost a million dollars, which is very close to the amount they claim he owes in back grazing fees? It just doesn't pass the smell test. Dammit, we all know he has been using Federal Land for , (umm?) 144 years and counting. We know it's not HIS land.

But, it's just like everything going on with this government, these days, they are so damned heavy handed and dictatorial that some of us object mightily. If I forget to pay my property taxes, do I expect to rousted out at 3:00 A.M. and frog marched, cuffed and stuffed in my underwear? And, don't tell me it hasn't happened.

I don't think it is too far fetched that we are looking at creeping military-NAZI enforcement, and we could site chapter and verse all day long on abuses and "wrong House" situations, and neighborhood snitches serving as bonafides. I resent it, and if somebody like Bundy stands up as poster boy for GOVERNMENT OPPRESSION, let's not cloud the issue: i.e.: It's not his land! Technically, it's "not my house" and the bank also owns the paper on my car, just saying...

The issue is the fucking storm troopers. PERIOD.
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 23, 2014, 01:55 PM:
 
WORD

And Leonard's points become all the more frightening, when considering the stance of current .gov on the 2A issue.

Seemingly every swingin' dick letter agency now has a paramilitary force on call, yet WE THE PEOPLE, are under attack & demonized at every turn in the libtard media, when exercising our Constitutional rights?

This is some fucked up shit, over...

[ April 23, 2014, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on April 23, 2014, 04:31 PM:
 
With a little research you will find that mr bundy's family has NOT had that land since the 1870s. Completely horseshit. COMPLETELY!
They bought the 160 acres that he owns in the 1950s, that was the very beginning of their ranching career. And on the subject of Mormons LB, they are just like everybody else, some are great people. But the crookedest cocksuckers I have ever dealt with were Mormon. So again, good and bad. I'm the first to agree that the BLM doesn't need to be in the law enforcement business, but Bundy has got to go.
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on April 23, 2014, 05:10 PM:
 
LB, I'm not so sure I agree with your assessment about taxes or let's substitute rent here since that is closer IMO to what he was supposed to be paying.

Around here, if you don't pay your rent, after a certain amount of time, and going thru the legal channels, you get evicted. I have seen the sheriff's dept show up with a court order, and remove people from the residence along with all their stuff being put out on the street/curb. Usually by people the owner hired.

I never saw them bring a SWAT team for an eviction.

I will agree the Fed's were too heavy handed, and if handled differently, I doubt much of any of this would have even hit national news. I don't know the law, that super genius guy Charles "The Hammer" should weigh in, but "What If" the fed's had the sheriff evict Bundy. Then Hired all the cowboys to round up and put the cattle on the guys Deeded property? Bundy would have been forced to hire people to transport his cattle to market and sell them because he didn't have enough land to support his heard. Gov't could have then slapped a lien on the monies from the cattle sales for the back rent, or the 20 years of unpaid fees for the BLM land.

BTW, I think that Kirsten Powers is pretty hot, even for a liberal.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 23, 2014, 07:44 PM:
 
Hey, have you noticed that Powers has gotten a lot more reasonable since she got religion? I couldn't believe what I was hearing, then found out she quit atheism and became a Christian. Mellowed her out considerably. Now somebody needs to do an INTERVENTION with Rachel Maddow. She is so fucking loony, it's scary! Well, you know what she needs, right? Any volunteers?

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Frank (Member # 6) on April 23, 2014, 08:04 PM:
 
The feds are no longer conducting their operations in the average Americans interests. Too many land grabs have occurred under the guise of environmental regulation....and this without compensating the land owner for their losses.

The Senate and the House have created the alphabet government agencies and given them power to create law to such a degree it affects the lives of Americans to a negative extent. Giving the power to create law to the Bureaucrats of these agencies relieves the elected officials of their responsibility in creating the law i.e. they don't have to answer to the voter for what happens with the laws the "appointed" officials produce. It's a goddammed scam, don't ya know!

Look, if you let a subordinate "agency" create law then the elected officials are insulated from the effects of these laws. The Senate and House have willingly given up the power to create law to these alphabet government agencies so that they don't have to answer to the laws these agencies create. This is how many unpalatable laws are put on the books that otherwise would result in an extreme backlash against lawmakers. It's a way for them to get what they want without having to answer to the voters. It's a fucking scam and you idiots don't realize it! The BLM has no right to create law according to whomever is in charge at the moment....don't you get it? Its supposed to be the lawmakers who make the laws! Not the alphabet agencies!

This has been well known for a long time and was/is objected to by many people. But the politicians allowed this kind of lawmaking to happen so as to insulate themselves from having to answer to the voters!

If I was appointed to the the Department of Fish and Game and ran the show, I could invent any law to govern hunting rules that I liked. It's the same with the BLM. The mutherfucker in charge can invent any law they desire......so long as too much public outrage isn't provoked.

[ April 23, 2014, 08:25 PM: Message edited by: Frank ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 23, 2014, 08:14 PM:
 
There's ^ a post by Frank that is on the money. I agree with 98% of what he says, above.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on April 24, 2014, 05:04 AM:
 
I did notice there was a change in Powers attitude and look at things, she seemed more reasonable. I didn't know she was an atheist. I'm glad she found God. I work with an extreme liberal and he proclaims to be an atheist. Smart man on so many levels, but he is way out there on politics and religion. At least he isn't militant in his beliefs, and will listen to and will debate without hostility.

Rachel Maddow (Madcow to some) will be a harder nut to crack. She plays for the other team, basically a woman in comfortable shoes. Maybe Liz Chaney can get to her.

Well, I need to run to our world headquarters office and drop off some paperwork. I just finish a Hobby Lobby down south and am waiting to start another in a different state.
 

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Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on April 24, 2014, 06:46 AM:
 
Regarding Powers, it depends on what show these libs are on at the moment. Get her on a liberal show, especially a talk radio show with younger libs hosting, she will go super lib in a second. Most do. They get on Fox and they tone it down a bit. Probably because they know a certain amount of class is required.

Mark
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 24, 2014, 09:47 AM:
 
So, she tailors her message based on the audience?

As far as atheist, I'm not positive, she actually said that Liberalism was her religion and I don't know for sure what that means? It sounds sort of "godless" to me?

But, Maddow is on a whole n'other level. She has no grace, at all. Kind of an Alex Jones in drag.

What do I know? I don't watch MSNBC ten minutes a month.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by booger (Member # 3602) on April 24, 2014, 12:12 PM:
 

quote:

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Now somebody needs to do an INTERVENTION with Rachel Maddow. She is so fucking loony, it's scary! Well, you know what she needs, right? Any volunteers?

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I’d raise my hand, but I have ‘been there, tried it, was too stupid to know she was not playing for the home team’…

Had a couple of dates with a really cute girl a year ahead of me in high school my junior year/her senior year.

After I graduated, we ended up at the same college and kept going out on occasional dates…never could understand why I kept ‘getting thrown out at first base’…well, we went our separate ways, I met and married my wife, and she came back several years later to our home town to attend her father’s funeral.

I went up to her after the service to give her my condolences, she gave me a big hug…..and then introduced me to her ‘life partner’…at that point, I got it…
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on April 24, 2014, 01:01 PM:
 
I watch MSNBC every day. Usually watch my Fox programs first run and catch what I can stand to suffer through on MSNBC later in the evening.
Funny the stark difference between the two channels. Of course their politics are opposite, but check out the female hosts, most of them have dark hair and for the most part, unattractive. The Fox ladies sport blond hair, and for the most part are quite attractive. Not sure if this is by design or coincidence on the part of MSNBC, in a drive to not be like that "other" channel they so hate?? Seems many of the talking head guests on MSNBC, seem to have speech impediments and no lips....David Corn and EJ Dion come to mind, and no one can understand that babbling sonofabitch Mathews?
Whereas the Fox crew speak clearly and are quite articulate.
Another glaring difference is the preponderance of homosexual hosts and guests on MSNBC versus Fox, must be their intense drive to show they are "inclusive"?
The choice of news stories between the two is amazing to me. Where Fox will concentrate on trying to get to the bottom of Benghazi and the IRS shit, Mathews ,Maddow and her twin brother Chris Hayes along with that loony bastard Sharpton will spend the major part of their hour trying to convince me how bad Christie was for closing traffic for a few hours on some gawd damned bridge in New Jersey.
Why would I watch that crap on MSNBC....good question. I just want to know what they think and what makes them tick. Im always surprised when someone asks me why I watch Fox news, and by paying attention to MSNBC, I amazed why they don't.

[ April 24, 2014, 01:03 PM: Message edited by: Az-Hunter ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 24, 2014, 01:37 PM:
 
It's different worlds, completely. I am convinced that Liberalism is a mental illness. That is not how the world works and they should know it?

Giving Sharpton a platform is all the proof I need, they are all crazy as a bed bug.

How can you stand to watch that shit, Vic? I can't even watch network news, maybe CNN on occasion but I get all the fair and balance I need on FOX.

Hood Gunting. El BeBe
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on April 24, 2014, 02:15 PM:
 
I'm open minded, I watch Fox news.

With O'Reily as the left leaning moderate (calls himself an independent), to Hannity who's pretty much right leaning GOP'r. Then all the guest from far left Colmes to that guy on the 5, (Bob Beckel?) who I am just starting to be able to tolerate.

I understand what you mean Vic, "Know thy enemy". But I can't stomach msnbc, I very rarely hate anyone, but that douche-bag Keith Oberman made the list.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 24, 2014, 03:00 PM:
 
Olberman's one thing, and Mathews is a total dick, but that fat guy, can't think of his name, oh yeah, Ed Schultz. That guy really should be committed as a danger to himself especially not to be trusted with anything sharp. Really, the lineup is a joke, not to be taken seriously.

The divide between normal, conservative people and flaming radicals is growing wider every day. They are crazy, and Margret Thatcher was right...eventually you DO run out of other people's money.

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: Oh, forgot what I intended to say. If the reports are correct, and you never know about that? But apparently Bundy has stuck his foot in his mouth, something about black people? I don't know what it was but according to the headlines, he did himself no favors. <sigh>

edit: If the MSM doesn't like you, it don't matter what you say about minorities, they will condemn and distort it and make you out to be the chief hangman of the Saturday night cross burning meeting. You can say: "I like black people, some of my best friends are black", and it will be branded a racist statement. You can't win with these people so the best you can do is keep your mouth shut. LB

[ April 24, 2014, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on April 24, 2014, 04:21 PM:
 
I saw that earlier today Lb. After the first time I heard him talk, I knew it was just a matter of time; besides, the media has been giving him every opportunity.

this Hage guy is a better representative of the ranchers in the area...

http://www.rangemagazine.com/specialreports/range-su13-hage-decision.pdf

Of course he eventually won, but his story is telling in regards to the BLM. Here is a taped interview with him. Very long, but interesting.

http://vimeo.com/8520897#at=0
http://vimeo.com/album/2025395
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on April 24, 2014, 06:18 PM:
 
Bundy basically made the statement that black people are more enslaved today under federal entitlement programs than they were in the mid-19th century when they were actually enslaved. His problem was that no one heard his point through all the wailing and crying because he used the word, "Negro". (gasp) Glenn Beck has made a total ass of himself over this. He's hemorrhaging listeners and fans on his facebook page like crazy. He spend years rallying the troops and when we finally see smoke on the horizon, he goes all Ghandi/ Rodney King. It's a full-fledged mutiny.
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on April 25, 2014, 06:44 AM:
 
Interesting statement from a black man.

video

I'm not trying to justify, excuse, whatever this Bundy guy said. However my 80+ year old mother who I don't believe is racist or hates black people, still refers to blacks as "colored or negro".

I talked to my neighbors grand kids about those terms before. They basically said that they understand older people grew up with those terms, so they just kind of blow it off. Kind off like when the old man in knee high socks and sandles with the garden hose yell's "get off my lawn".
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 25, 2014, 08:16 AM:
 
I'm not from the south but I remember when the term, "colored" was used but the polite word was "Negro". In my observation, the word "BLACK" was first used in actual Africa. And, my impression, at the time was that it might be derogatory?

Anyway, mainstream people of the Negroid race picked up on what was a British word and now, suddenly, they want to be called BLACK, sort of a Black is Beautiful description, I dunno?

Okay, so rather than risk offending them, we call them black which at one time, I'm thinking fifty years ago, you would be afraid to say "BLACK". Biology books in the 60's routinely used the word "Negro" and nobody ever thought anything offensive about it.

So, we are jerked around, they can say Nigga to each other but if Negro passes our lips, we will sure as hell be called on it.

Meanwhile, they have several impolite words referring to white people. We can't do enough for the black image of themselves, apparently?

One thing I have thought for a long time. The blacks brought here as slaves are far better off than those left behind in Africa. A progression, but since the civil rights movement, Blacks have a lot more opportunities than whites or asians. That's just the way it is.

I am so impressed by people like Clarence Thomas or Ben Carson, they assimilated and succeeded and don't have the resentment of Barack Obama. Obama's constant racist baiting has set back race relations and not improved them. We proved nothing by electing the first black president. A total waste to elect somebody just because he was black and to prove white people aren't racists.
It's crazy, and I'm so friggin' tired of the drama I could spit.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on April 25, 2014, 08:20 AM:
 
Different generations have thier own terms, like it or not, and they aint up on the latest PC talk.

Like my Grandfather, a WW2 Marine, referring to Japenese as "Japs". Different kinda deal, them being the enemy at the time and all, but you know what I mean.

On that note, one day I said "Chi-coms" while talking to my wife about the Chinese...she looked at me funny and said that she didnt like that term lol.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 25, 2014, 09:47 AM:
 
Too politically correct. No such thing as free speech anymore.
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on April 25, 2014, 04:14 PM:
 
RACIST! The end it all accusation. How do you prove it or disprove it? One can be a thief, murderer, child molester etc. These accusations can be proven with evidence and facts. To be a racist only requires one individuals opinion.

On the other hand, did you all see how pissed Harry Reid was? That's one of the best parts of the whole deal.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on April 25, 2014, 05:06 PM:
 
Yeah to see that lunatic bastard Harry Reid lose it is totally priceless. Most incompetent idiot on the planet.

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 25, 2014, 06:29 PM:
 
I honestly don't see how Harry Reid keeps his job? Can't forget Pilosi, she's really special, but stupid, whereas Harry Reid is a calculating weasel: a pair to draw to.

Near as I can tell, all of them, from Obama on down are consummate liars. Outragous bald face lies. And get away with it because the Media is in the tank.

Amazing. Truly amazing!

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Aaron Rhoades (Member # 4234) on April 25, 2014, 07:28 PM:
 
How many of you watched the videos that Crossj posted? Bundy may be a dud but I'm not so sure the same thing isn't going on with him.
 

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Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on April 26, 2014, 04:04 PM:
 
That Hage deal is interesting. What is more interesting is that the agencies he sued and won judgments against have the ability to drag things out in perpetue. Our tax dollars at work.

Seems that Hage v US settled the water rights, and tangibles question in my narrow mind. Is that what Bundy was trying to replicate without pockets deep enough to tread there? I read somewhere he tried to represent himself in one of the cases. That never works out against taxpayer fueled law teams.

Imagine...the Sierra Club, USFS, and BLM in cahoots. Unconscionable.
 

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Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on April 26, 2014, 08:35 PM:
 
After watching the video links that Cross J posted it's pretty easy to see the government plan to give ole Cliven a fuckin. The story that Wayne Hage told pretty much mirrors what I have read & the videos I've watched about Mr Bundy. Coincidence??????? hummmmmmmmmmm. I DO NOT consider myself an anarchist but have to admit to getting "morning wood in the afternoon" while watching the bloodless standoff near Bunkerville.
Back to the Hage incident, the mutherfucking government setup and then falsely convicted Mr Hage of a life changing FELONY!!!! Fortunately Hage appealed his conviction and won!!!!! I have to say if that happened to me, someone would endure my wrath.
 

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