This is topic H414 (what about it?) in forum Firearms forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 13, 2024, 11:20 AM:
I go something from Hodgdon's this morning and was curious, they had quite a few powders listed @62.99 per pound but of course, I am curious that I never see anything about my favorite .224 performance powder. Even though I have close to 3 pounds on the shelf.
My response: "No results, did you mean H110?"
So, I went to DuckDuckgo and typed in H414
Came back:
H414 is a discontinued powder of Hodgdon Powder Company
I'd sure like to know the reason for that?
Now, in case yu don't know, Winchester 760 is reputed to be "the same"?
I can't confirm that, but I have used it, but only in 220Swift but yeah, performance seemed up there with H414 and in appearance, looks like a lot of Spherical powders, which means nothing, but it's something. On second thought, I did use W760 very early when I first switched to 22-250Ackley like 30 some fucking years ago? No, I don't have any records to prove that, but who cares?
So, it's a rumor, as far as I'm concerned, that 760 "is the same" as H414. However, If and when I run out, I'm pretty sure 760 would be a good starter.
I might mention though, that I tried H414 in my 22-243Middlested and it didn't work any better than the H4831 load that the previous owner had worked up for that rifle which I bought with two Shilen barrels and the 22-250 only had 100 rounds through it.
I forget right now on the Middlested, but I think it was 200 or 300 rounds through the tube? I've never screwed on the 22-250 barrel and I have 100 loaded rounds for it, that I did not load. The previous owner was apparently well known from Boron, I should know the name, but a friend bought several guns from the estate and this was one. Another one was a rare bird chambered in 240 Page "Pooper". A real blast from the past, I've read a couple good books by Page, what the hell was his name? Warren Page, a well known writer for one of the magazines. I think the title was "The Accurate Rifle" a two volume work and of course, it's dated but still useful information by one of the Bench Rest pioneers.
So, solves one mystery but why discontinued? I mean Have they discontinued BallC2, or 3031?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 13, 2024, 11:53 AM:
What a co-inky-dink !!!
I'm currently reading One Man's Wilderness by Warren Page. Excellent writer that can do a story without it becoming an infomercial.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 13, 2024, 03:04 PM:
I don't know maybe they was same at one time but the 760 I have looks nothing like 414, but good news is the burn rates are pretty close. I do remember I used 760 in 17 rem and maybe the 22-250 and it was a pretty dirty powder. N-140 or N-540 would be a better choice and close in burn rate. I only like two powders by Hodgdon's, H-335 for 221 f.b. and 17 mach 4 and H-380 for 22-250 as well as improved version. Oh, varget is pretty good also but I have other choices I like better. When choosing a powder, the faster burn rate stuff listed for a certain cartridge will give you better accuracy and slower burning powder for more energy load and better choice for heavy bullets for certain cartridge. I like a little of both worlds, so I pick the powders that fall in. between.
[ March 13, 2024, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 13, 2024, 04:00 PM:
I bought some H414 to try in my .22-250 Ackley about 14 years ago. But ended up going with RL-15 it was faster and more accurate in my gun. Been using it ever since. I guess it’s a good thing I did. I have plenty of RL-15 and you can still get it. Sorry to hear that though Leonard.
Good Hunting Chad
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 13, 2024, 05:10 PM:
Well, it's mainly been a puzzlement, I'm not out, like I said. Thinking about what TA wrote, I'm not going to bet the farm on whether 760 looks like H414? I thought they were both very similar ball powders?
Good hunting. Rl Bee
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 14, 2024, 05:40 AM:
By looking at Sierra burn rate chart you see that 760 and 414 right next to each other and just above them is N-540, big-game,2000MR and then H-380. So just pick your flavor here. I'd say at this point the powders tend to burn slower after this if used just for varmint cartridges. (I don't reload for deer cartridges) Look at manual and it gives you a good idea of what's faster and slower and what falls in the middle. If you look in manual at loading data for 22-250 ackley and pick out info for a 50 gr. bullet most of the loads stop at 3900 fps. with one powder going up to 4000 fps. Accuracy load listed is H-380 (3900 fps.) and hunting load is RE 17 (4000 fps.) Brand or type of bullet, brand of case, type of primer used and maker of the barrel as well can throw off these spec.s
So you either just use what they list or you can play around and find what is the best for your application. There is a little confusion though with some of loads listed as if you look at a plastic can of say H-380 they have a few loads listed there and they don't match what the manual says. Maybe law suite protection?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 14, 2024, 10:36 AM:
You know, when I did load workup a long time ago, I kept increasing the load, one shot at a time, at the range and stopped when I saw pressure signs at 42,000fps. Then I backed off to my forever load which is 3950fps with a 65gr Berger. That's in a 28" Hart premium barrel.
That's my method. Works for me. That rifle has a McMillian Benchrest stock and it's mostly for night hunting, but it is set up with Benchrest guidelines and loading techniques, I use Wilson straight line sizing and seating, except I'm operating at pretty much the limit in performance and with my twist, it's too slow and accuracy is not acceptable with a 70 grain Berger; I tried it.
Was something said about H414 being a dirty powder? I never saw that?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on March 14, 2024, 11:29 AM:
42,000 fps! Man, that's stretched string trajectory right there!
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 14, 2024, 12:09 PM:
That must be close to air speed / friction melting the lead in the boo-lets. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 14, 2024, 12:52 PM:
at that speed I'd say you really smoked them.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 14, 2024, 01:00 PM:
No Leonard on H-414. 760 seemed like a dirty powder even looks dirty compared to others. At cleaning time barrel seemed pretty sooty compared to other powders.
For load work up I pick out what bullet I want which usually a H.P. of some sort, in 224 class I like the 52 gr. bullets. I pick out 2-3 powders and load five rounds each and test fire plus run them through the crony. I pick the two loads with smallest deviation and load five more rounds each at top load listed in manual and also check vel. if the load falls little short in vel. and no signs of pressure then I go with the best out of two powders and then fine tune the best one. I tend to choose the powders that give the highest vel. and hope its accurate as well.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 14, 2024, 01:08 PM:
Any of you southerners eat crawdads, crayfish, mud bugs??????
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 14, 2024, 01:42 PM:
Actually, it does vaporize the boolets. I had some that I grouped good at 100 and had no idea that they never made 200 without blowing up. Had a coyote just look at me without even blinking. I put that gun away for the weekend, good thing I had another!
That's the problem in load development just judging by pressure signs. The bullet winds up as the weak link!
It all got ironed out!
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: some people compare the bullet upset with washing out a barrel rifling and there is some validity althought I have never experienced it?
TA I used to catch "Crawdads" in Minnesota creeks, which is what we call a stream, out here. Why, I don't remember ever fishing with them?
[ March 14, 2024, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 14, 2024, 02:42 PM:
Yeah, I've eaten my share of crawdads.
Try boiling up the smaller ones in a mild garlic boil and serving the tail meat in a salad with a cucumber dressing.
The skies the limit with what you can do with them after that. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on March 14, 2024, 04:19 PM:
In Florida, my Son and I would pick up a 25 pound sack, put them in a seasoned boil along with shrimp, corn, potatoes and spicy sausage.....washed down with a few cold beers and you have a hell of a summertime feed.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 14, 2024, 07:04 PM:
So, how far does 25 pounds of crawdads go? If ten people ate 2 1/2 pounds apiece, that would seem to be quite a feast. Then you got sausage, corn and potatoes and sounds like enough to feed a small Army? Or you folks are big eaters? And I forgot the shrimp!
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on March 14, 2024, 09:07 PM:
25 pounds of boiled crawfish probably yields 5 pounds of edible meat, that little nub of tail meat isn't very big.
Not as bad as the effort of picking a crab for a tablespoon of meat, but you gotta work for it! They are tasty though, and they keep the beer flowing.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 15, 2024, 04:45 AM:
I can get them here at Wal-Mart in a 3-pound bag precooked in all the spices. Cost about 6.00 a bag. Place bag in microwave and heat for 7 minutes. I think they the best thing that's ever come out of the south.
We have a place close by that just started up and they do the crab boils like Vic. mentioned with all the fixings but starting price is 50.00 for one person and goes up to 140.00 if you get other meats added like lobster.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 15, 2024, 06:52 AM:
I dunno Tim;
A boil is supposed to be a social event with friends and neighbors and beverages that the kids sneak drinks out of when they can get away with it. Gossip for the women and tales of glory from the men. Sometimes even outright lies are told and the distance of any shot is at least tripled.
Good times.
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on March 15, 2024, 06:58 AM:
KOKO, by any chance you hitting the Safford gun show this month?
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 15, 2024, 10:36 AM:
Sadly, no. When it rains, it pours. I'm already committed to going to the Expo at Ben Avery that weekend. Then they schedule a gun gun show here and an archery shoot in Globe all at the same time.
I think that they do this just to piss me off.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 15, 2024, 01:26 PM:
Should of been at Dakota terr. gun show. one of the biggest in Midwest. And if you can recognize him, you can meet Hank Williams JR. in person and chat about guns or ask for autograph. Hank has a sweet tooth for old Winchesters and single shot buffalo rifles.
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