This is topic What is the reason behind buying 308 win cases with small primer pockets. in forum Firearms forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on November 22, 2023, 11:49 AM:
I've never seen this before for the 308 winchester. Is there some other benefit besides the fact that I have a hard time finding large primers for BOTH rifle and pistol.
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on November 22, 2023, 12:30 PM:
Here is a link:
https://www.grafs.com/catalog/product/productId/80892
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 22, 2023, 10:14 PM:
I hope someone has a good logical reason? But, you know, some aspects of precision shooting involves fucking MOJO! Somebody had success with small primers and these guys are nothing else if not joiners. So, I think people believe the small primer is more consistent as far as the intensity of ignition and coupled with really consistent burning properties of powders, (don't ask me which ones!) and I think involving service rifle matches at Camp Perry and others, but it also involves a large portion of magic, or charisma, IDK?
But, when you have the fever, nothing is beyond reach so it's a nitch item, and for most of us hardly matters. For me, my 308 hasn't been fired in many years and all my brass is standard large rifle primer and it doesn't matter.
If somebody has a better story, I'm all ears. Could be accurate and could be for several unsubstantiated reasons. If somebody swears up and down that there is a perfectly logical reason, it's still MOJO and MOJO is real!
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on November 23, 2023, 10:33 AM:
Oh shit! It didn't click at first but now I remember. 308 brass with small primer is for benchrest shooting or changing size of the case for BR. matches and using small primer. Yes, primer size does make a difference!.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 24, 2023, 02:13 PM:
Yeah, but who owns a bench rest rifle chambered in 308? Everybody I know has a 22 or 24 bore and chambered in a small case of some kind and if they are even moderately motivated, they all shoot the 220 Russian. Everything else is practically unheard of.
The innovation in Benchrest is in bullets and primers and powder, not cartridges, they all use 220 Russian.
Myself, I'm hardheaded enough that I can't see any particular value in that 220 brass but it must be
the capacity and the uniformity of case volume?
Whatever, but since somebody started shooting that obscure cartridge, now everybody uses it. It really does not make any sense, but enough shooters are on the bandwagon that it must have some value?
Before that, as far as I know, the 222Remington was popular in Benchrest competition.
Right now if you don't have a custom action specific for Benchrest, you are nobody. Years ago, they used to sleeve Remington 700 actions in a solid block of aluminum, which worked but now you can't beat the specific custom actions made for benchrest, including left side loading. And that really does have value.
Myself, I like to borrow benchrest techniques for hunting applications. No doubt, some practices have value as far as accuracy, it's all about tight groups! Three shot groups are worthless, 5 shots are where it's at. Especially at night, you have to be sure that animal is down. They drop out of sight so you had better have him spotted precisely. Wandering around at night, in the cold is fucked up! You must have the animal located as precisely as possible, range and vector and hopefully by some landmark, be it a tree or a rock or a special bush but a landmark is the most useful item. Especially once it gets out to 300 ans 400 yards. I don't shoot beyond that distance, you can waste half the night wandering around!
Good hunting. El Bee
PS That's the value of Thermal, for sure!
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on November 24, 2023, 03:16 PM:
Oh Leonard you need a little educating on the 308 with small primer pocket. Using a 308 as parent case you can bump shoulder down and resize the neck to 22-250 ackley dimensions, 22 cheetah, 243, anything using that head size and many of the BR. guys I know use the 308-parent case for shooting score matches, one shot per bullseye. My 20x47 Lapua uses small rifle primers as well and case is as big as 22-250. Back when I built my 22-250 imp. I wanted to use 308 B.R. case for it but at that time all the BR. guys was buying up all the brass, was always in demand.
The x47 Lapua is well known for accuracy as well especialy with 6.5 cal. bullet and think Cal had one in 224 cal.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 24, 2023, 06:12 PM:
Yeah, OK. Right, I prolly need to be all knowed up on the subject!
I have quite a few Ackley's. A 25'06Imp, 243Imp, 2/22-250Imp, a 223AI, and the 22-243.
All of these, including what you mention are pretty much overbore resulting in extreme high velocities & very short barrel life.
That's okay for hunting situations, BUT when you are talking about any form of target shooting, the idea of high velocity is counter productive. At least the way I see it.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on November 25, 2023, 06:14 AM:
Thanks for all the input.
I don't have any interest in shooting bench rest. I was at an Arizona Game and Fish Expo a few decades ago, and a couple of bench rest shooters had a table showing off their sport. One of the guys was blending a hodgdon ball powder with a specific lot number of Vietnam era IMR 8208. That kinda turned me off.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on November 25, 2023, 07:46 AM:
Ok ........... One dumb question; I don't know squat about Bench Rest shooting.
Do they have a class for factory stock unmodified rifles ???? Seems like the manufactures would hype wins big time.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on November 25, 2023, 11:55 AM:
You don't have to shoot BR to get use out of a small primer 308 case, can use it as a hunting load and can be more accurate than a larger primer case but there are other variables that need to be added as well. If you can get the stuff then buy it you can't go wrong.
Yes Koko it's been a while, but I know at one time most every type of BR. shooting sport had a factory class. Not sure if you familure with the old Rem. 788? At one time the 788 was most accurate factory rifle available and know mine was till I wear out the barrel. Then years later Rem. came out with a factory BR. rifle with 700 action but had special changes made to it and was a little more pricey. I use to shoot I.B.S. postal matches and could use any factory rifle or custom build I wanted, one target sheet with 6 bullseyes, one for a sighter shot and rest for score, one shot at each bullseye. This type of match wasn't only about the rifle but also about what cartridge and load combination you used. Practice this skill then go out and kill coyotes with one shot on every stand. Yeah I know its hard for some to swallow but that was the way it was for me, either you catch on and improve or you don't.
17 Predator or 22-250 ackley was my choice of cartridge as both can be very accurate for killing coyotes or Redfox. On avr. 100 yard stand you don't need a gun that shoots 3/4 inch groups or less but when you start to take shots farther out then you want a gun/cartridge that's up for the job .
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 25, 2023, 12:09 PM:
Not that I am aware, ko ko. These are pedigreed target rifles with a single purpose, small groups. No hi velocity stuff at all. Some might use the same 5 cases resized & re-handloaded on the bench for an entire match. The cases are long since fireformed to their chamber that the only thing needed is to barely resize the neck to where it will hold the bullet, that's the extent of resizing in these matches. So, the important consideration is the internal volume of the cases and the fact that they are virtually the same.
As far as blending powders, that's a bit radical for most of us, but I believe the 455Cassul (Is that what it's called, I'm not sure?) anyway, it uses some type of dual power charge, "I think"
It's generally not recommended, but there are a few brave souls that live dangerously. (think Incremental)
As far as that goes, there are a few of us that push it to just short of pierced primers on a hot day. Then load up actual max loads that are only suitable in that specific chamber. Anyway, that's what I do, I watch the spent primer. It's ok to be flattened, but for me, none, or very minor, cratering. After you've done your homework, you can shoot these high performance rounds 'til the cows come home; safely.
If it's worked up properly, there will be no split necks and because of the 40* shoulder, probably no trimming to length, either. I can use the same culled cases, selected from a larger number, and use them over and over, usually more than 10 times until the barrel loses the best accuracy.
It's not true benchrest, but borrowing a bit here and there, I can get minute of coyote very reliably.
Good hunting. El Bee
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