This is topic Fair warning! in forum Firearms forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.


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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 16, 2023, 07:24 PM:
 
Regardless of what you hear or what anybody claims; believe me people. Do not try to kill a coyote with anything chambered in 223Remington! Sometimes they get cute and dress the cartridge up in a military designation 5.56mm X what the hell is it, the capacity, anyway? Whatever, I'll look it up. But, it's not enough! Trust me!

If you don't trust me, I had a call this afternoon from "He who shall not be mentioned" Tim Anderson and if you don't believe me, he's like some sort of expert, hailing from the North Woods where Paul Bunyon is from and he said many places it's actually illegal to use a 223 on coyotes/fines and imprisonment! Why take a chance when adequate coyote cartridges are available.

And, whatever you do, do not use the assault weapon commonly known as an AR15 on coyotes! For pity sake!

Again, don't take my word for it. Look it up. The Internet is full of hard luck stories where some Nimrod attempted to kill a coyote with an AR15 and the coyote wound up getting up and biting the hunter in the groin!

Don't do it! It's not worth it!

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: It's 5.56X45 a pipsqueak cartridge that apparently kills by tumbling or something?

[ January 16, 2023, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on January 16, 2023, 08:49 PM:
 
The. 223 was my primary arm for many years up till my 40s, and began to use a variety of. 17 and .19 caliber rifles. Digging into my memory, I recall taking 6 whitetail bucks and 3 mule deer bucks,several javelinas and one antelope. More coyotes and Bobcats than I could reliably recall, but it was a bunch.
Now days, the. 223 is just more gun than I want or need, my little .17 mach 4 has been the cats ass for my hunting needs, I've even taken 2 mule deer bucks with it.
I'm always amazed when I hear an opinion criticizing the. 223 as being substandard for use on a 25 pound animal. A 50 to 55 grain bullet, at 3300-3500 fps is just not enough, but same bullet at 3800 from a 22-250 is somehow magical???? Sure makes scratch my head.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 17, 2023, 01:13 AM:
 
You answered the 22-250 question yourself. (3800 fps.) What's vel of some of your 17 cal.s you shot? Bet it was over 3800 fps. (Not counting mach-4)
3800 fps or faster that's magic number. When my dad had his dairy farm, he would go out into the barn once or twice a year and shoot and kill a full-grown Holstien cow that was sick or broke a leg, and used a 22 l.r., sure it killed the cow but automatically does not make it a big game cartridge, unless you can get close enough to your game and hold end of barrel few inches from its skull. LOL Oh yeah I've heard the story of some guy shooting off his back porch and shooting deer in the ear every time and drop right there! What if that deer perhaps jumps the string a little before bullet gets there, then what? Go to u-tube and check out all the night vid.s keep note of what cal. is being used and the results. 223 wins that as worse round to use on coyotes at night and day time less you killing your pets.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 17, 2023, 01:19 AM:
 
P.S. I've seen enough coyotes at home shot by others using a 223 and most of them pretty dam good marksman and many times a running shot has to be taken just like on a stand when you have multiple coyotes coming in, they sure as hell not going to stand still long enough for you to get a clean shot.
anyone invited to my part of the woods, bring your trusty 223 and I have the dogs put a coyote in your lap and make a liar out of you at same time. LOL
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 17, 2023, 01:39 AM:
 
Interesting .............
I've had good results with .223 out of several different set-ups including a (gasp ) Mini-14.
Possibly because I don't consider myself a great long range shot and anything past 100 yards is a long shot. I tend to hunt heavy cover and sometimes even seeing more than a 100 yards can be a problem.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 17, 2023, 08:31 AM:
 
Yes, Vic! I get it. Less is more!

So, next time I'm in a friendly game, I intend to raise with 2 pair, instead of doing the smart thing and folding. In fact, it's beginning to make sense to call a raise, holding a pair of Jacks.

Mule deer bucks drilled with a seventeen, .17 what? You use something like a Mk4 or Javelina, not even a 17Remington, I think?

Well, I know what you are doing, same thing I was doing by starting this conversation. Why stop at 17? You can get a nice 14 caliber rifle for most situations, short of Grizzly bears. On second thought, why not Grizzly bears? All you got to do is aim true! That's the reason these fellas use too much gun; they are poor shots on game, as a rule. Most of those fools expect a moose, hit in the leg with a 30'06 to drop dead.

There's no logical answer to this, "less is more" thinking; so we are plowing furrowed ground here.

Think of it this way. Ever tried to convince a Liberal of ANYTHING factual? Waste of time, ain't it?

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 17, 2023, 09:54 AM:
 
Koko I see no problem with that you a responsible hunter and know the limits, problem is there are 9,942 hunters that don't think like that. Kind of like matches, in the hands of a responsible person they come in pretty handy, but not so much when kids play with them. As for Vic I've seen him shoot those dangerous eggs and kill em most times but not everyone can shoot as good as Vic so another exception. Still have 200,000 hunters who can't shoot to save their ass, but hey it was fun trying.
Saw another U-tube vid. on a night thermal hunt, the guy had five coyotes come in. They get to where the guy thinks they close enough and then starts a mag. dump on them. Hits the first coyote he shot at and goes to the second, another hit and then off to the third, another hit and then onto the fourth, another hit. This guy is on a roll and swings to his left for coyote number five which has already put a lot of ground between it and the shooter. Shooter empties rest of the mag. on this coyote and missed from what it seemed. Guy goes out to drag all his dead coyotes back to the truck and takes a hero shot, problem is there was only two coyotes in the picture cause that's all he could find. LOL
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on January 17, 2023, 10:00 AM:
 
Opinions are based on experience,or should be,otherwise voicing it clutters the conversation with noise rather than thought.
Opinions are developed from either no experience,little experience,some experience or a great deal of experience.
I arrived at my opinion by what I believe to be a fair amount of experience with the. 223 and smaller calibers used on predators. I also associate with a couple guys who have far more experience and far greater numbers than I do using the. 223.
I could give two fucks what a guy uses to hunt coyotes, I just would like reciprocity on the issue. I do not subscribe to "less is more", I do have the opinion though,based on my experience, that less is enough.
I've seen my share of "got always" with 243s,22-250s,6mms,7mm-08 etc, but certainly don't lump those observations into an opinion that anything over. 223 is not suitable for coyotes. That would sound ignorant, no?
Really not intending to have an argument,I trust that's understood. As I mentioned,use what you like,it's the pastime we enjoy,savor it, most of us don't have much time left this side of the dirt.
My point, is to honestly assess the degree of your experience before you weigh in with an opinion.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 17, 2023, 10:04 AM:
 
Now the gritty part. I use a black rifle when I run my dogs chambered in 224 Valkrie shooting 75 gr. or 90 gr. bullets. the Valkrie compared to the 223 we just splitting hairs here its just a hair better than a 223 in performance, nothing to brag about. How well does it work on coyotes? It doesn't unless a coyote is standing still at 100 yards and I can get the perfect shot with a good solid rest. And that's still not a guarantee the coyote going to die from one solid hit. Shot quite a few coyotes in front of the dogs so far and many required a double tap or the dogs would have to finish it. But thats only reason I still use it, if a bad hit I have dogs coming up behind or one in the box I can dump on it, most don't have that luxury so why do it.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 17, 2023, 10:15 AM:
 
If smaller just as good why do so many carry 9mm, 38 cal. etc for a self-defense pistol where 22 L.R. be just as good? Less muzzle jump, easier to stay on target etc.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 17, 2023, 12:58 PM:
 
https://www.facebook.com/500126993/videos/486556910274354/

It maybe painful for some but watch till the end and pay attention to bottom right corner of screen.

[ January 17, 2023, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 17, 2023, 01:58 PM:
 
"Content isn't available"


 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 17, 2023, 03:22 PM:
 
my bad. sure, you seen similar before.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 18, 2023, 09:51 AM:
 
Well now. My original post was intended to mock 300 yard DRT and with an AR15, specifically.

My experience with 223 is limited but I was surprised, out of my trusty AR that I couldn't seem to BANG FLOP those critters. Why is that? I don't know but I had 15 years exclusively killing them routinely with a 220 Swift and this was very different.

I will concede one thing, maybe I mentioned it before? That I had several partial boxes of MATCH bullets that my Swift didn't like, and so that's what I had on hand, and that's what I used. What I'm saying is that perhaps a spitzer might have killed better, but I was using target bullets at substantially less velocity than typical out of my Swift. Maybe they didn't expand or whatever, but nothing went down "Bang Flop". They all needed 2 more, while they were flopping around. I put it away before the day was past noon. That has formed my opinion since the early 70's and I'm not kidding, the last time that rifle has been out of the safe. I mean you know, I never took it hunting again although I did bang some steel at the range one time that I almost forgot about.

What I will say, to conclude, is that a fucking 22-250Ackley makes the best all around predator rifle cartridge I have ever used, and I've used quite a few.

Let me try another angle. Thinking about less is more. What are you going to grab for self defense, a 38Special with round nose lead bullets or some places where you have to use FMJ, or a 357Mag, with hollow points? And, if you say; yeah, that 38 drops their dick in the dirt, every time and the 357 kicks too hard!

I have a hard time understanding the reason(s) for 223, at least for coyotes and why I want to kill them. A 22-250Ackley just performs magnificently, and the brass lasts so much longer than my Swift brass. I will mention, that I have never owned a 22-250 Remington, but my partner had a Oberndorf Mauser with double set triggers chambered in 22 Varminter which was a wildcat before Remington came out with the factory cartridge in In think 1969? That was an awesome rig with a 6X24 Balvor, huge scope but we used that rifle just for long shots at night and it performed beyond, well I can't say that because I never owned a factory chambered rifle, but that Mauser performed right along with the Ackley's I have owned.

And that's it. No point in 222Magnum, 225Winchester, or any centerfire 22, just get a 22-250 and enjoy life. If you hunt for fur, well maybe you might want a 17, or a 19 or a 204? But for all around predator hunting, a 22-250 is hard to beat and in my opinion, has not been beat.

If you would rather drive a Tercel than a Porsche, for the same price, something's wrong, somewhere?

I do not get it and I never will; but whatever floats your boat.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by NVWalt (Member # 375) on January 19, 2023, 01:26 AM:
 
Just my worthless 2 cents but I agree with Vic on those calibers. I love my little 17 Rem but I run it hotter than a popcorn fart, but don't really recommend that a person with limited experience at shooting coyotes Use one. You need to PLACE that shot with a sub caliber. Otherwise you just ding ol Wiley and he gets away sometimes. I've shot a handful with a 223 I had and it worked well but my all around favorite has been my stock 22-250, but once again I run it hotter that a popcorn fart. Something I always liked doing and most guns I have owned didn't mind it at all short of short brass life. I also hardly ever shoot a coyote at over 100 yards as the majority of them have been 50 yds or less but I just don't care to use a shotgun. Love my little 17 Rem. easy to shoot and no recoil. Also, and for me, it is watching everything happen through the scope where with any of the 22 cf's I blink and miss the impact and the expression on their faces. Even my little 221 Fireball out of my TC makes me blink...on occasions lol.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 19, 2023, 08:24 AM:
 
You right Walt 17 rem. or a 17 wildcat is the cats ass on a coyote but don't try to tell Leonard that.

Many of my 17 cal. barrels are worn out and not sure if it pays to re-barrel any of them back to 17 centerfires. Maybe 223 is the answer.

221 F.B. I still have two of them really like em but not enough steam for 300 yard bang flops.

[ January 19, 2023, 08:28 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 19, 2023, 10:33 AM:
 
Just let me say here that I was never bit by the 17 bug. What, exactly is the advantage? Vic doesn't put up fur so what's his rationale for choosing the novelty of it? Whatever, don't answer, it's a free country.

One little factoid I remember from some years ago is that the number one Model 700 returned to the factory because of blowing up for any reason is the 17 Remington. Doesn't matter the size of the bore and like NV Walt, he likes to run them hot and pressure is pressure.

I may not agree with your choice, but I will defend to the death, your right to use a subcaliber on coyotes. And as been mentioned, aim carefully!

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by NVWalt (Member # 375) on January 19, 2023, 03:07 PM:
 
OK Leonard you just did it.
"Whatever, don't answer, it's a free country."
I haven't put up fur for at least a million years and when I shoot coyotes they were good fertilizer for the sage brush and the soul.
But that 17 is so much fun just to shoot and it zaps little furry things at a good distance.
I just love that thing but just because I treat the handloads like they were top fuel dragsters doesn't mean I want to blow it out the ports LOL.
It's like shooting a 22lr but funner.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 19, 2023, 04:15 PM:
 
You right walt they fun to shoot with a bullet at Lazor like traj.and hits the target while you still looking at it. and in most cases you don't get a pile of blood in the truck or all over yourself like you would with a big boy. And little as a 30 gr. bullet maybe it hits them hard and something you'd need to see.

[ January 19, 2023, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 19, 2023, 04:49 PM:
 
Yes Walt, I think I get it. Just novelty, or I can't really express it, or driving your 67 Corvette convertible. Something like that? I get it because, for me, I get a lot of satisfaction from Ackley's. And the brass lasts forever. I get superior performance, above and beyond my 220 Swift, (which I haven't given away yet) and I get it without blown primers and split necks. Or, the bane of 220 Swift shooters, trimming to length, or at least checking "over all length" with every reloading cycle.

This isn't news but I can be very contrary. For instance, I hate Glocks! Never owned one, but they are so "plain vanilla" that I am very unimpressed.

I hate Creedmore chambered rifles. I never owned one, I just refuse to jump on that bandwagon.

I hate Military style Assault weapons, AR15's with "High Capacity" magazines.

I hate FaceBook. Not because I ever joined, but mainly because I strongly dislike that little pipsqueak than copied the concept from My Space and has become a multi Billionaire by blind luck. Between him and that other Pencil Necked Geek, Bill Gates, we are supposed to pay attention to his ideas because, why?

I hate EV's! Electric vehicles are a fad being forced on us by Liberal Conservationists that don't know shit. Buyers will be sorry one of these days!

I hate the Olympics, I hate the NFL, and I really hate World Cup Soccer! People blindly follow this bullshit like it actually means something! FANS ARE BEING PLAYED FOR SUCKERS!

I hate $1400 Suppressors! Why do people pay more money for a 6-8 inch machined tube than for their whole rifle? It's a con! Be an elitist

Okay, that's all I can think of right now, but this was with very little advanced notice. Given time, I can come up with lots more!

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 20, 2023, 04:11 AM:
 
You forgot about Mini-14s & 30-30 lever actions ????
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 20, 2023, 07:20 AM:
 
Or how about those big Bowie Knives that rookie hunters carry ??
Or the endless parade of quads & side x sides patrolling the roads during deer season ???


 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 20, 2023, 12:12 PM:
 
Yeah, Bowie knives? I never did get it? I find a drop point caper to be all I need. I am aware of this, I own too many knives. I own too many calls, for that matter. Having said that, and noticing Jay Nistetter checking in, I remember his display at the ShadeTree gettogether in 1999, I think? His collection makes mine look insignificant. I have his book by the way.

Never wanted a Marine Corps KaBar. They are second rate, if you ask me?

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 20, 2023, 02:17 PM:
 
I carry just a Musk rat skinning knife or least have one in truck and also had it along at few camp outs. Remember Local trying to skin a cat with dull butcher knife! It wasn't my cat but I stepped in to offer my service hate to see someone cut finger off or ruin a good hide.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 20, 2023, 02:21 PM:
 
I think Jay took over making the Tally-ho, was it? One of the very few store-bought calls I liked to have along.
 

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Posted by Jay Nistetter (Member # 140) on January 20, 2023, 03:29 PM:
 
As much as I love Tal and Fay, I declined his more than generous offer. Rumors that I took over Tally-Ho have been going around for quite awhile. The only thing I can think of is that I talked Tal into making special limited color runs of his call that only I could sell.
About the only notable thing I did was originate the Two-pointer coyote.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 20, 2023, 03:49 PM:
 
Ok. But you were selling them then, right? If so that's probably where I got that from, my bad.

Two pointer coyotes? You got some catching up to do now we have 3 pointers.

[ January 20, 2023, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Jay Nistetter (Member # 140) on January 20, 2023, 04:02 PM:
 
FWIW I used 22-250 for coyotes for many years. I tried v-max 223 (55 grain) for awhile. Too many coyotes recovered enough after a good hit only to run off sometimes up to 50 yards before piling up. Got tired of that crap and starting using my 243 deer rifle. Never looked back. Coyote fur is worthless in places I hunt so bigger calibers don't bother me. Rare, rare, rare if I hunt up north when it's cold. My go-to fur gun is a 450 Bushmaster. Basically because I cannot resist calling when I'm out after hogs in Texas.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 20, 2023, 06:46 PM:
 
Yeah, that's a mystery. But I do know this, I know some very serious coyote hunters that don't fuck around with marginal calibers. They hammer their coyotes with 243's and 25'05's.

This really is a topic that just will not die. I know that the various 17's punch way over their weight. And, 5.56mm has killed many a human.

It's a fucking mystery, for sure. But, I have probably made mention a few times that while also there are die hard serious contest hunters taking no chances with anything short of a 243, neither have I seen anybody at one of these coyote contests talk about bringing his trusty 17. That I have definitely never seen. Yup, a mystery.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 21, 2023, 04:13 AM:
 
I did a contest with R-Shaw one year had my 17 Pred. along. A stormed moved in that mourning and the area we were to hunt got blown out by high winds. Only called one coyote in I believe first stand Randy didn't see it, and I was afraid to shoot as Randy was in front of me someplace and I didn't need Randy bang flopping on the ground. We tried few more stands it was just too windy. Randy went home soon as the storm blew past, and I went calling. I killed enough coyotes first day to win the contest times 3 if we didn't get blown out of area. Randy Roede was impressed with my take for the day and also the next 3 days and all the kills was done with my 17 cal. and never felt the need to bring out my 22-250 ackley. All the coyotes I did kill was located like 3 days prior to the day I hunted. Randy Roede road along one night and we located like 30 some coyotes which Randy said I had more than enough for a contest, so we called it a night. Wish Randy Shaw would of been there then he sees how it's done in the northland and would of had a great time, I know I did. LOL
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 30, 2023, 08:14 AM:
 
I haven't been here in awhile but I'm glad to see nothing has changed!

And I think I got banned for using a 223 in an AR-15 to kill coyotes once or twice so I'll just pass on commenting about how well it works.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 30, 2023, 10:02 AM:
 
If you got banned, you wouldn't be here, so you didn't. I only started it to stir the shit.

And, remember, this kid doesn't care what you use, or is it....nevermind; welcome back from where you been.

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: just to clarify, HM hasn't banned more than you can count on one hand, total, in 20 years. You gotta really misbehave, to get that, like insult the proprietor, but raving about what a 223 is capable of, will get you nothing but disagreement, and we tend to disagree, A LOT!

[ January 30, 2023, 10:06 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 30, 2023, 10:55 AM:
 
Fortunately, when we do disagree we usually can't stay on topic long enough for it to matter.


 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 31, 2023, 10:26 AM:
 
Yes, that's a component of the DNA at Huntmastersbbs.com. It's preferred that you not stay on topic. as much as possible
 

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Posted by Dan (Member # 4563) on February 12, 2023, 09:42 AM:
 
Banned? Who got banned?
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 12, 2023, 06:05 PM:
 
Bad call by Tom!

see here:

TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561

posted January 30, 2023 08:14 AM

"I haven't been here in awhile but I'm glad to see nothing has changed!

And I think I got banned for using a 223 in an AR-15 to kill coyotes once or twice so I'll just pass on commenting about how well it works. [Big Grin]"

So, nobody got banned

I can't figure out how, or why you have no other posts?

[ February 12, 2023, 06:11 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on February 16, 2023, 04:35 PM:
 
Leonard: I am going to buy a suppressor soon. I wish I would have years ago. I paid $1695 for hearing aids about 4 years ago and recently paid $1400 to replace them because they stopped working. Both sets were from costco. I don't want to damage my ears any more than necessary. Oh, I could wear ear muffs but they get hot in the desert. BTW: I use a 243 on coyotes and will soon be using a bigger caliber. I want them dead.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 17, 2023, 03:50 PM:
 
Well, it seems to me that my hearing is is bad as it can get, but I still wear ear plugs like at the range, etc. But not while hunting.

I also bought hearing aids from Costco, but I got the inside the ear type, I think they cost me more than $3,000? I lost one in a bed at the Colorado Belle, romping with some female and then I have never worn the other one.

These had ten programs, you could select on for speech in a crowd or for driving with the wind blowing and they had a channel for classical music and one for shooting, I forget others but you had to press a button and scroll for the one you wanted.

It made a difference in that I could actually hear the turn signals rather than my wife telling me that I had my turn signal on. I pretty much read lips any way.

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: oh yes, suppressors. You know, I refuse to believe that a fucking suppressor can cost twice as much as a Glock! And then the double insult of that $200 high way robbery Fed stamp. It's a damned ripoff, any way you look at it. On the one hand I feel like a nimrod without one, out hunting. But I think they do change your point of impact enough to matter, in some cases. It might be a bit of a stattus symbol too? They should be free, Federally and maybe cost $200 bucks but what they charge is excessive.

[ February 17, 2023, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 17, 2023, 09:19 PM:
 
You right about the price on a suppresser Leonard way overboard. Takes less man hours and material to make one compared to a custom rifle. I'd rather shoot a 17-center fire all day than own a high-priced suppresser. But if you listen to mule team six you can't just use any old suppresser brand you have to have the one they use cause its a few disciples quieter than its competitors. Like a coyote going to tell the difference. Mule team six not smart enough to figure out it's not the sound coming out of the suppresser but the crack of the bullet going supersonic speed that rattles them. Just watch any vid. with one being used around group of coyotes and see their reaction. Need to save your hearing then take up fishing. LOL
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 18, 2023, 02:16 AM:
 
Hearing ???
What hearing ???

Have any of the Peanut Gallery used Walker Game Ears as everyday hearing aids ???
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 18, 2023, 09:20 AM:
 
Two things:

First, now that you mention it, TA is right, it's that snap as the bullet passes overhead, not the blast at the muzzle.

And second, I was going to say something about the Walker Game Ear, myself. They work damned good and last I heard, they were $3?? or so? And even if you put them on just for hunting, at the very least, you have two things going on. One, you will be able to hear your caller, and another thing, you can hear coyote yips that might let you know that you are busted, which is a more and more common event, these days when everyone and his brother has a Foxpro blaring while they roll.

We used to have a member from up in Idaho that explained to me how he rigged up game ears for everyday wearing. I forget the guys name but he did have a slick set up.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 18, 2023, 12:18 PM:
 
Funny you mention it Koko. I had a pair of Walker game ears (ear muffs). Think mine was called the quads as they picked up the sound at the front and behind you. Took a little time to adjust to them and I used mine mostly for locating coyotes. At first, I had the wife along with me at night when locating and I get a direction from her as to where she heard the howls come from and soon had the games ears figured out. Also tried the single unit that just fits in your ear like a hearing aid but was very difficult to get a direction as to where the sound was coming from and I didn't want to buy one for the other ear and found out the game ears worked the best. My hearing loss is due to being around loud heavy equipment, not much from shooting a gun as I used the 17 centerfires mostly. Company got better equipment now that runs much quieter and found over time some of my hearing has returned but still difficult to pick up a coyotes howl past 1/2 mile. One of my puppies liked my game ears more and tried to eat the dam things so I been doing without them last few years. LOL
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 18, 2023, 01:49 PM:
 
I'll check out the Walker behind the ear ones when I go to Cabela's to burn a bunch of points.

My hearing loss is from a lifetime of women screaming "OH GAWD" right in my ear.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 18, 2023, 02:54 PM:
 
Koko a bedroom blanket set comes with two extra small pillows. Try using one of them on your next adventure, may save what hearing you have left! As good as a suppresser. LOL

[ February 18, 2023, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 18, 2023, 03:01 PM:
 

quote:

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women screaming "OH GAWD"

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I know just what you mean Koko. I stayed at a hotel one week while working on the road. Wife came to visit and one of my neighbors complained to the hotel manager about all the noise. She knocked on my door and I answered it, she said we need to keep the noise down. I told her It was coming from the room next to mine where two construction workers shared a room that night.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 18, 2023, 03:35 PM:
 

 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 18, 2023, 05:30 PM:
 
Yeah, and I have heard that the most macho bunch, football players have that habit of patting each other on the fanny; and can you adjust my jockstrap, it's binding my balls and I can't reach it from the front.

On the other hand, many claim that is an old wife's tale, so I never spent that much time in that sweaty locker room. Full of football players is just about the most reeking you will ever experience. For sure a jockstrap goes unwashed all season and the socks must be beat against the locker door repeatedly to soften them enough to put them on and jamb them into your cleats. It's primitive, Neanderthal behavior as only teenage males can accomplish.

All this is second hand info, I don't know it personally, okay?

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: and as to construction workers sharing a room, all I know is what I see on the Village People video, so it includes cowboys with chaps and motorcycle officers; what's the other's, I don't remember? Indian chief, construction worker and biker. No predator hunters, Victor! No Mexican wrestler sneakers either.

[ February 18, 2023, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on March 09, 2023, 08:57 PM:
 
So the ole 223 debate is still going.

I decided to assemble another AR15 in 223 for this fall. I used it a little out by Vics last month. Hell I even ran an AR15 in 17 Rem for a while. I don't shoot that far though, hell 300 yards is a long poke for me. I am too lazy to look up the numbers but guessing whatever my Tikka 22-250 does at 300, my little 223 can prolly do at 200 and closer.

I do cheat some on the 223, I actually improve them AI. TA actually skinned a one of the Bobcats I shot at Pauls place with a 223AI (get together) years back.

I will admit that I do shoot my bolt actions more consistently accurate than the AR's.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 10, 2023, 09:22 AM:
 
What a relief 😅 for ko ko! He has been quizzing me for days as to exactly WHO is this member by the name of “Dan”?

So who pops in, out of the blue? But DanS, and that should clear up things a bit.

Good hunting. El Bee 🐝

edit: ko ko, please note the “scorched earth” custom title?

[ March 10, 2023, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on March 10, 2023, 10:35 AM:
 
Well KoKo, I am the one that ran into you hunting in the place that is named after that guy with the big knife.

Haven't been hunting as much as I like. Retired and goofing on my Harley when the weather is nice, looking into fishing. Visited with Vic and Dorothy when I was out there. Looking into getting another dog, Asked, and Cal gave me some advice.

Oh yea building another 17 Wildcat. LOL, The cannon 17-204 is sometime too much gun with those 30gr bullets.

Just reading a bunch of post I missed while gone. LB, I told you at one of those get-togethers, I'll say it again your wit/humor still cracks me up.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 19, 2023, 08:25 AM:
 
PS
that would be Bowie, for non-AZ folks.
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on March 19, 2023, 09:37 AM:
 
I didn't want to name places, thought that was Taboo, Like that Irish town by Vic IE. They have a Dollar general, or Family dollar store there now, I get those two confused. No McD's, gotta run to the border for that.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 19, 2023, 09:25 PM:
 
Oh Man! I spilled the beans! ?owie is Coyote hunting paradise!

I know a few spots I will protect with my dying breath but ?owie ain't on the list.

Safford! Yeah, Saffard is coyote heaven, they have a rule there; you have to be sporting and let the first 2 yippers get away, kill the Boss Dog posting look Out. Alternate: stand on your head for the shot. Then you can dump the eager beaver first arrival. Stake out the back dock, (edit: At Walmart) they hand feed pups all the time and they are almost tame. Honk on a Weems all call and from what I hear, coyotes think it's the DINNER BELL! Don't tell them I blew the secret!

Good hunting. El Bee

[ March 19, 2023, 09:27 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 20, 2023, 03:11 AM:
 
Actually, it's the Weems Dual Tone that's the hot ticket. Bought my first one at a Wally Taber Sports Show about a hundred years ago and it remains the finest closed reed call ever made.

Over this way we believe in giving the coyote a sporting chance but standing on our heads tends to frighten the superstitious illegal aliens Biden had invited in so we either shoot from our off shoulder or use pointed sticks.

Bowie used to be good hunting but sadly the aforementioned illegals have killed and eaten all of the fox & coyotes. If you visit that area be sure to offer some root beers to the over-worked Border Patrol folks that you'll likely meet. Good people doing a thankless job.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 20, 2023, 05:40 AM:
 
Oh I remember that secrete spot. Set up to call a area with AR-S, in mean time a Border patrol officer walked out into the brush to take a dump and AR shot him in the ass! AR said he thought it was a coyote threat barking at him, so he let it have one. All sworn to secrecy, and got the hell out of there.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 20, 2023, 11:05 AM:
 
Pretty sure that the Statute Of Limitations NEVER runs out for shooting a Border Patrol guy in the ass.
If you get back down that way you might want to wear a disguise and claim your name is John Henry or something.


 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on March 20, 2023, 11:39 AM:
 
Never heard of this J-H guy you speak of. I did find a small pile of dead fox (about 6 or 8) at my secret spot in Bowie. Believe it or not, several years back we were hunting the power lines, (not Bowie) and ran into a woman sitting in their truck, she was waiting on her husband who was coyote hunting. They had Minnisodie(SIC) plates, she told me they heard it was a good area.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 20, 2023, 03:24 PM:
 

quote:

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Pretty sure that the Statute Of Limitations NEVER runs out for shooting a Border Patrol guy in the ass.

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You right about that Koko cept the state of AZ has a catch 22 or loophole in their laws. At the time asses was not listed on the protection list so we good to go.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 20, 2023, 10:38 PM:
 
“Never heard of this JH guy” said with a presumed straight face?
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 21, 2023, 04:11 AM:
 
JH? Oh he was one of the good guys in S.D., could voice howl buy sucking air in verses air out.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 21, 2023, 11:33 AM:
 
Wrong guy, TA.

But, why don't we make an inquiry with the gentleman who might know what's going on with John Henry? Victor was his hunting partner and taught him everything he knows on the subject.

The last information I heard, was a brief comment from Vic and he said (I think, if memory serves?) that John Henry was living in Pennsylvania and his wife was living in JH's father's house, in MacNeal.

Other than that, I forget the name of the man who took over The Coyote God's website, who was living in a camper with his wife, but heard that he died a few years back.

And, then we have Victor himself, who moved to Florida and then it seems like he moved back to AZ? I do not even have a current email address for him any more? But, I think we can say that the Glory Days of The Coyote Gods has probably passed into the sunset, and as the smoke clears, maybe DanS will be appointed Mayor or Sheriff as the last man standing. At least for a few weeks when he is the scourge of the whole kit and caboodle from Bowie to Douglas and Rodeo to Sierra Vista, so will the last man strike the flag unless VC decides to KEEP IN TOUCH, annually, at a minimum, just for old times's sake.

Kinda sad result but the good part is that ko ko is holding down the fort from the direction of due north in Safford.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 21, 2023, 01:32 PM:
 
I left the gates to the fort wide open when the coyotes started doing the den thing and the carp in Roosevelt started to come up into the shallows for bowfishing.
 

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Posted by Dan (Member # 4563) on March 21, 2023, 02:05 PM:
 
JH thought that if you shot a 223 you were a big game hunter. That other guy thinks a 223 won't kill a coyote. What am I to think?

[ March 21, 2023, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: Dan ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 21, 2023, 04:03 PM:
 
Thought you'd never ask! There's a website devoted to all those technical questions, anything about coyotes. Google PMS!
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on March 21, 2023, 05:10 PM:
 
I haven't ran into John-Henry for several years. I hear he looks different now, gained weight, and such. I believe Brent recently ran into him.

The guy your thinking of was Don and his wife Franki. The bought a house in Sunsites. Sadly Don did pass a few years back and Franki moved back where they used to live in Oregon I think with their daughters. They were both good friends to me.

Vic can speak for himself. I hear he has been pretty busy.

J-H ruined Coyote gods, banned too many good people. But it was his house, so it was what it was. I did meet a lot of good people there and made some great friends. Also got the 17 Bug from that site. One person there did look at the 223 as a cannon and a shotgun as a butchers tool.
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on March 21, 2023, 08:37 PM:
 
Still sucking air,did move back home to Arizona. Figured I was born here, might as well take my Last breath here when that day comes.
Been busy as ever putting together the last place I'll likely live. Kept 5 acres next the home place we built. Put in a water well, septic system, and building a tiny house compound
Think I've come full circle on the coyotes. Started at 15 years old, and maybe shot 5 that year, about the number I did this winter. Maybe got out a total of 4 or five hunts. Next year I should about be wrapped up with construction projects, and I'll catch my stride again?
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 21, 2023, 11:10 PM:
 
Yeah Leonard I know who J.H. is, was just testing you old farts. May of been few years but J.H. posted on one of the face book hunting sites I believe and was on the east coast at the time. I was a member of the coyote gods site for a spell, never had a issue with J.H. and had him even go to bat for me few times.

[ March 21, 2023, 11:12 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 22, 2023, 11:43 AM:
 
Ah yes! Going to bat for TA is part of what a message board administrator agrees to do....often, and without much thank you's.

Yes, The Coyote Gods! Anybody save one of those old tyme tin type photos with the whole bunch. Bruce Kennedy, Jay Nistetter, 'ol Bob from Texas, John Henry Petroscouski (sp) and ....

To lend legitimacy, while still looking like he didn't want to be there, & while dressed in those rented period duds, & as well as the only truly credentialed .17 caliber coyote hunter of the bunch; the one, the only, Victor Carlson!

If you still have that photo, send it to my attention or even post it here and it's worth a one year free membership at HM! And, the rest of us will be much obliged, ye all Pilgrims and Amigos.

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: So Victor is building a cozy little Hacienda right next door to the old homestead? I wonder what happened to his house-sitter while he was soaking up the sunshine in Florida? Sometimes those freeloaders are the hardest to evict and further wonder if he even got a thank you? Well, none of our bee's wax, and all's well that ends well, back in McNeal, reputed to be the coyote capital of Arizona.

edit: PS I just counted with my fingers 1953 + 15 years and durned if we didn't start killing coyotes about the same time!

[ March 22, 2023, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 22, 2023, 02:39 PM:
 
Don't have the tin-type but somewhere in my workshop is a Coyote Gods vhs tape.
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on March 23, 2023, 08:46 AM:
 
Vic didn't want me to know this or share it with everyone, but his secret is "if you will" is to wear blue denim shirts and jeans when hunting to elusive yodel dog, yote for you westerners, or as Danny G calls them, (one syllable) Kout's.

Sorry Effe, all the Vato's know the secret.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 23, 2023, 09:10 AM:
 
And Leonard says I have poor grammar. LOL
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 23, 2023, 10:15 AM:
 
Leave me out of it, please!

I remember quizzing one of my favorite sources, gas station attendants, "where's the coyotes?

The answers come back such as; oh yeah one time they were over by some landmark and sometimes it's damned near every day.

One guy had a weird pronunciation. He said something like "Kots" while leaving out every other letter. Unique and I never forgot it. Of course, his "info" was worthless and why do I bother?

I also remember asking a local yokel, hey got any bobcats around these parts? And he said with conviction: "nope, never seen any around here!" And this was a place with a shitpot of cats, really good and reliable bobcat habitat. I love it when the locals are all knowed up on weather conditions, which turn out to be consistently WRONG! I asked a little store owner up in central Utah, once, about what looked like serious weather coming from the south. This guy looked like right out of Central Casting, ya know, (a lot like ko ko) and he looked very thoughtful while contemplating the question.... then he shook his head convincingly and said with authority: "no, I don't believe I've ever seen weather coming from the south." And that was comforting because we had a tent set up in that direction and not far away. That night we were snowed in like a friggin' blizzard and woke up with 6 inches of white stuff covering everything, the deer were moving and we scored before noon.

The moral of that story is to take "SAGE ADVICE" concerning weather predictions with a grain of salt, most of them don't have a clue! (lol) But, they always know more than "Californians" and aren't afraid to "splain you. And never ask for a good spot for doves! Those assholes will send you 30 miles into the next county just to be safe! They know that out of towners usually shoot up windows and scare the livestock! So if they get a chance to give you a "bum steer" they will, (quite righteously) save the entire county from destruction!

Bottom line: never trust local advice! They have zero incentive to be the least bit helpful.
lol

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 23, 2023, 01:32 PM:
 
I know what you mean. One time out hunting a lady and her husband stopped to talk to me and said they had a group of cats up by the farm site last night and asked if I could TakeCare of them, I said sure and went over there with the dogs. Thought to myself this going to be fun, nobody as far as I know has run cats in Minn.. I got over to the farm and they had a nice 40-acre grove, so figured they still be in there. I casted the dogs towards the grove and just sat and waited and soon after they all lite up. It took a little chasing, but the dogs finally got them out of the grove and running for their lives. It turned out to be four Kots and dogs managed to bay up one of them before dark. Few days later get a call from another farmer he says he has a pair of Kots hanging out by his place, so I said I'll be right over. Had tracks all over the place so I just casted dogs into the grove and in short time here they come with a pair of vixens running out front. Slick little bastards made it to the creek overgrown with plum brush and just ran little circles, dogs never did catch them. LOL
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 23, 2023, 04:02 PM:
 
"Kots" ............... ???????

That would be Minni-Soda Speak for ......... ????
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 23, 2023, 04:13 PM:
 
Yeah, don't ask me?
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 24, 2023, 01:46 PM:
 
Koko just reflecting off of what Leonard said few posts ago. Most of us up here call critters by their right names. Bobcat, lynx, red fox, grey fox, coyote, wood chuck, gopher, timber wolf, etc. It seems all those nick names come from the S-E or S-W parts of the u.s.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 24, 2023, 02:56 PM:
 
Ok.
The ranchers in S.E. Oregon tended to pronounce 'coyote' as a one syllable word. Kinda hard to repeat let alone put down on paper.

Lots of hot springs in that whole area. Generally a lot of artifacts and debitage nearby.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 24, 2023, 03:22 PM:
 

quote:

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Lots of hot springs

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We have those also scattered all over the state, but we call them hot tubs. Also have indoor pools so no reason to go to AZ. or other southern states in the winter we got it all.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 24, 2023, 03:24 PM:
 
You are right, ko ko. That gas station attendant with a unique pronunciation, (at least to my ears) was in southern Oregon. You know, where they will have you arrested if you pump your own gas.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 24, 2023, 04:55 PM:
 
Yeah, always a hoot to pull into a stop & rob in Oregon and grab the pump handle to see the guy come running out waving his arms.

What I wanna know is when did 'Full Serve' become just getting your gas pumped ????
I worked a gas station when I was a kid. Full serve meant you pump the gas, clean the windshield & headlights and offer to check the air in the tires, oil, water, & battery. Then handle the money, pass out the Green Stamps, and all with a cheerful attitude.
THAT was Full Service.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 24, 2023, 06:10 PM:
 
I even had the inside glass cleaned once in a while. Those were the days! Now I don't need to expand on that statement, the geezers will get it.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on March 24, 2023, 06:44 PM:
 
I think that gas stations were the first to go self serve, now Wally world, McD's, and others are following suit.

What exactly is a Geezer? Is that someone that gets a kit and kaboodle?
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 25, 2023, 06:55 AM:
 
I'm just as in the dark as anybody? We need to get to the bottom of it,, sooner than later.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Semp (Member # 3074) on July 11, 2023, 09:10 AM:
 
After reading this thread and I learned how fortunate I was that the coyotes I shot with my AR actually died. I mostly use a shotgun but next time I tote a rifle it'll be my .308. I'm not pushing my luck any further.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on July 11, 2023, 09:39 AM:
 
So ............... If you swapped out the upper on your AR to .308 would it still be enough to kill a coyote ????

I tend to hunt brush here in S.E. Az. with a Ruger Mini-14 / .223 when I do carry a rifle and I swear that a couple of times I've heard El Bee groan all the way from So. Cal. after shooting a coyote with it.
 

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Posted by Semp (Member # 3074) on July 11, 2023, 09:56 AM:
 

quote:

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So ............... If you swapped out the upper on your AR to .308 would it still be enough to kill a coyote ????

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quote:

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Doesn't the 223 at 100 yards equal a 22-250 at a 200 yard target?

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My impulse response is that a fucking 223 is simply NOT an adequate round, from a 16" barrel, compared to a 22-250 category 26" barrel. It's beyond apples and oranges and the people that think a fucking AR is a great coyote gun are sadly mistaken.

So, I can't answer your question: yeah right, that's it, an AR at 100 is the same as a 22-250 at 200. I can't boil it down simplistically. When the AR is inadequate, how does a hunter compare it to an adequate "weapon" although I hate to use that term in a sporting application.

Where do you come up with such complicated conundrums that cannot be answered with a simple yes or no?

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on July 14, 2023, 02:30 PM:
 
Simply what I was eluding too was say a AR15 or any other 223 firing a 53 gr bullet at 3200 fps at the muzzle would give you about 2800 fps at 100 yards.

Now a 22-250 shooting the same bullet at 3600 fps at the muzzle would have the same 2800 fps at 200 yards. At 300 yards the 22-250 would have the same fps as the 223 at 200 Yrds. So the 22-250 would basically be able to do whatever the 223 could do 100 yards further away.

These are just rough numbers your mileage may vary. Just saying if a 22-250 is adequate out to 300 a 223 should be just as adequate at 200, going by the numbers. It's the same bullet at the same speeds. Just the 22-250 can out perform the 223 by roughly 100 yards.

Now for a contest or ADC work, which I do neither, I think I would choose a 243 or similar 6mm. My type of called coyote hunting, 300 yards is a long poke, a shot of 50-150 yds is more common.

Hey I get it, some people hate Chevys and love Fords or Toyotas, or vice versa. Either way IMO it isn't worth getting all worked up over. Shoot what you like. I do think the 22-250 is probably the best cartridge for coyotes if there is such a thing.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 14, 2023, 03:01 PM:
 
Why didn't you just write this last sentence in your previous post? I can agree with that.

Just asking: Are you a Prius driver or a Camero or maybe a Mustang? I would rather drive a Corvette, which is sorta like shooting a 22-250Ackley, performance wise, and mine has a 28 1/2" barrel.

But, I agree, any 243 or 6mm is just as good and with the right bullet, it puts a hurtin' on'em!

Good hunting. El Bee

edit:
PS what's the reason for using a marginal cartridge?? Economy? That's a laugh! You driving from (not sure where) but I think Ohio? to Arizona to shoot worthless coyotes? It don't add up, money wise so it has to be recreation.

[ July 14, 2023, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on July 15, 2023, 07:54 AM:
 
I think they should stop making 223 and ban them for hunting so we can concentrate more on who going to drag the coyote back to the truck for a hero picture.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 16, 2023, 07:17 AM:
 
If you want a riot, suggest banning 9mm. Shooters seem to think it's the best thing since sliced bread! A Man Stopper! It's pleasant to shoot and I guess, in a Glock, if I had one? But I'm always swimming upstream on shit like that. I've never fired a Glock anything, and probably never will. I was surprised when our resident handgun expert, Victor went and bought a Glock; what seemed like yesterday? Then, he told me he liked it! Double surprise!

It made me think....No, not that I'm going to go buy one of those stupid things. I don't know what it is? Name me a law enforcement agency in this, or probably, any other country that issues something other than a Glock 17 or 19 to their officers?

That statistic should get my attention, but I've always been cursed with not going along with the crowd. I thought Victor was with me on this attitude, but I stand alone.

What you you think? ko ko, you got your log in info, and I know you own a Ruger 380. Any urge, desire to get fitted with America's handgun? Everybody wants one.

Good hunting. El Bee

PS the main selling point is reliability, and 17 rounds. Agree?
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on July 16, 2023, 08:29 AM:
 
.... icles Test
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on July 16, 2023, 08:57 AM:
 
Well Hot Damn ........... Back on !!!

Long story less long; Micro-Flaccid sent me the 'need to shut down & restart 4 upgrades' message.
No problem; They do that now & then.
This time when it came back up ALL of my log-ins had been wiped out. Very annoying for the non-computer savvy.

Ok ........... To the subject at hand; In my humble opinion; The BEST handgun is the one that you have with you when you need it along with the mind-set that if needed to fire until it goes 'click' cause it's empty.
The Ruger .380 LCP in a Sneaky Pete holster is always with me and discrete enough that no one pays it any attention since it looks like a smart phone case.
Now, is a .380 a 'man-stopper' ??
Maybe so ..... maybe no. But 6 rounds sorta center of mass should be enough of a 'man slower downer' that I can back off and load another clip (magazine?) that I carry in a belt knife sheath next to my Leatherman.
Hopefully, ...... it's never needed.
 

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Posted by Semp (Member # 3074) on July 16, 2023, 12:01 PM:
 
From the vibes I'm getting from this thread, I take it that the subject of a .22 mag for coyotes is a no go. We've got WMA's here that only allow rimfire or shotguns for coyotes.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on July 16, 2023, 05:27 PM:
 
Well ........... Not saying that it can't be done, IF you choose your shot angle / placement & about a 50 yard max. range. If I'm not mistaken, your Eastern Coyotes tend to be a bit larger than our Western desert coyotes. Expect spinners & follow-up shots.
That being said, personally I would go with a full choke 12 Ga. loaded with 3" copper plated BB.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 16, 2023, 05:43 PM:
 
Wow, A 22Mag in a bolt rifle could manage to take a coyote and I say that because I have seen it done, once. We snuck into a dump on the res that was in close proximity to a few domiciles; using the term loosely. Yeah, we killed a few, maybe a 22lr

(nah I ain't going there!

but it seemed just as loud as a 22-250, and the shots were all Gimmies, short and most were head shots. So, not an honest evaluation, as far as the way I hunt. It's just WAY better than a 22lr but that's all I would venture. Really, it was just an experiment, and if you have any experience with that cartridge, I would defer to your opinion.

But, based on what I think I need for coyotes, day and night, western conditions, no. I'd have to ask why do you ask, in the first place? If you intend to go out and buy yourself a coyote rifle, I think it's a poor choice.

If you have one, and nothing else; keep your shots within reason. Before long, you will be thinking about upgrading. That's all I got, not much to be passing out advice, specifically on that cartridge. Anybody with more experience?

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: I think Savage used to make a Model 24 over under that was chambered in 22Mag over a 3" 20Gauge. Maybe even Valmet/Finnish maker, makes something like that with a 22Mag over a 12 gauge. Or was it under a 12 gauge?

[ July 16, 2023, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on July 16, 2023, 05:55 PM:
 
Some know I run my dogs and I've had the chance to try few cartridges out on bayed up or holed up coyotes. 22 l.r., 22 mag. 17 wsm. The bullet fired from 22 mag. does not do much, it just balls up when hits flesh and just dont seem to anchor them less the shot is pretty dam close to perfect plus its too loud for the dogs so stopped useing it. 17 WSM did a hell of a job but its down fall was too loud for the dogs. 22 l.r. ok in a semiauto and they pretty accurate as well but also a little on the edge for being too loud for dogs so now I just use 22 c.b. shorts in a revolver and head shots must be made so yeah I have to get in close and let one rip and be ready for a follow up. Had a few that just kept coming while I was in a hole or pipe with them but have two dogs that pretty smart and they put themselves between me and the coyote and stop its charge. Let things settle down a little then try again.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on July 16, 2023, 06:01 PM:
 
If I may add I tried a 22 mag. on red fox at 50 to 100 yards and was a hit miss type deal again so I stopped useing one for anything cept coon. Coon usually sits still less you calling them and shots canbe more accurate to make on the head.
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on July 17, 2023, 10:06 AM:
 
Killed some with a 22WMR, until someone told me it doesn't work. but mostly in areas 'cause they were limited to rimfire or shotgun, used 4Buck in 3.5" 12 ga also. They worked.

I had a camaro Back in the day and still carry my Glock out west. I have and luv 1911's but prefer the lighter pistols for carry. Carried a 1911 and a M16 when I worked for Uncle Sam. So when do I get my participation trophy?
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 17, 2023, 12:27 PM:
 
TA, to save your dog's ears, you must swear off firearms and get interested in Air Soft.

Now for the rest of us, a 22Mag is just neither fish nor fowl. In a North American Arms revolver, it seems pretty wicked, perhaps more effective than my Seecamp in 32Auto? Actually, both marginal but like they say, better than nothing. I like the retort where the guy says, it beats the .45 you left at home.

Well, I remember a couple coyotes hit with my .45, one was charging me and I put all 7 rounds in face and chest but finished him with a rock. The other one dropped like a rock, I mean so fast, it was instantaneous! Whatever that has to do with the conversation, I don't know?

Another thing is availability. There have been times when there wasn't any 22Mag to buy, nor any hotrod 17HMR or variations. Like right now for well over a year The Winchester SilverTip 32ACP is unavailable, even at $90 a box.

That's a good topic, I think? What is available and always will be available? I can't think of ANYTHING that, at one time or another, has been out of stock for months on end. Like right now, I can buy anything I want in 40S&W, any point shape any bullet weight. Why is that? Because nobody wants a 40, it's too loud, too much recoil. So, there is lots of ammo on the shelf. There is, until there ain't. At some point nobody will stock it. Like, I have an old Marlin in 44/40. Can't find that on the shelf and what makes it especially shitty for me is that we can't mail order ammo in The People's Republik!

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 17, 2023, 12:39 PM:
 
Speaking of something mentioned above, by DanS. He says 3 1/2" 12 gauge #4 buck is effective on coyotes and I heartily agree. But I noticed the lst time I saw a price on a box of DEAD COYOTE, it was 90/some dollars-for a box of ten! I don't care, that's a cruel joke! I have a box of dead coyote 3 1/2" that is missing one round. I think I should itemize it in my will? That's ridiculous! You can buy something like A 500 Nitro or a 460 Weatherby for less than nine bucks per round. I think?

Let's face it. With this imbecile Biden running the economy into the ground, EVERYTHING is higher than hell! Go to the friggin' grocery store sometime. I never used to watch prices and even I have noticed how much food costs these days! It's scandalous!

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Semp (Member # 3074) on July 18, 2023, 04:19 AM:
 
Most of the places I hunt are heavy cover woods with shots less than 50 yards. More than that and a rifle (pick your caliber) is the way to go. The .22 mag does OK at short range. A shotgun with 4buck or Win Varmint X BB's is what I use mostly. The new TSS shot is even better but the cost is astronomical. It makes Dead Coyote T shot look like a bargain. At $10-$12 a shot makes for expensive coyotes that get thrown in a ditch anyway. Reloading might make it a tad cheaper. I don't reload so dunno.

Speaking of 3 1/2 inch 4buck loads, those things are ass kickers. Clevenger uses them (or use to anyways, maybe still does) I saw a pic of his arm/shoulder black and blue from firing those things. With me having had 3 rotator cuff surgeries, I have to pass.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 18, 2023, 09:05 AM:
 
Hold it! You know Gary Clevenger?

It's not often when you meet a true asshole. I mean.not somebody that just arbitrarily pisses you off, I mean somebody who seems like he's always plotting, behind your back, without justification, just for something to do. That's Gary Clevenger!

I hope he's not your best Bro? Get someone else! He's just a prick! One of those guys that wants to be a buddy with an ulterior motive, he's a real snake!

Take him off your Christmas card list before he stabs you in the back like all the rest of his former friends.

Good hunting. El Bee

PS yes, we are not friends but I've met him on several occasions. He used to sport a long Ponytail, lives in Canyon Country, out past Valencia.

edit: But if all you are interested in is testimonials about how hard 3 1/2" 12 gauge shells kick....then I can second that motion. DEAD COYOTE is the worst I have experienced and the most expensive.

edit: on the other hand, I have used quite a few of the Winchester XX 3 1/2" #4Buck. Brutal, just not quite as bad as DEAD COYOTE.

[ July 18, 2023, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on July 18, 2023, 10:02 AM:
 
Years ago at an Outdoor Expo I shot a .458 Win. Mag rifle. The guy in the booth asked me what I thought of the recoil and was kind of butt-hurt when I told him it was about the same as my 3" 12ga lead BB loads.
Sooooo .............. You guys shooting 3 1/2" Dead Coyote loads are shooting the the equivariant to a big elephant gun.
 

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Posted by Semp (Member # 3074) on July 18, 2023, 01:23 PM:
 
I've never met Gary in person but we emailed back and forth some a few years ago. He helped me out when I needed it and for that I am grateful. As far as I am concerned, he is a good guy. Very few hunters equal him when it comes to shotgun coyote hunting IMO.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 18, 2023, 05:12 PM:
 
Yeah, I know that's his schtick, now. He crawls into heavy brush and neither him or the coyote can see each other until they are practically face to face.

So, he's carved out this segment and now he's a friggin' Guru. Whatever?

But, I have seen him participate on state hunts for many years and he not only never won anything, he didn't even come close, usually blanked, if he showed up at all it was curiosity to see who won what and admire other people's kill. He was a total newbie until he came up with his gimmick with his daylight method of shotgunning in heavy cover.

I'm not discounting his technique, not to mention that myself and others have been doing the same thing long before he ever managed to kill a coyote.

But it's just one aspect of hunting predators, and the rest of us are proficient at all methods, including scouting productive areas whereas, he's hunting urban areas where shotgun is the only option.

Like I say, he's made a big deal out of that oddball application, but as a force to be reckoned with on a contest, he was never a factor and never will because he's a one trick pony. And he's an asshole.

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: My opinion is that Gary wants somebody, anybody to look up to him, so he befriends someone such as yourself if he thinks he has a chance to look important in the eyes of a novice. Go ahead and be friends with him, but be careful, he is one of the few snakes I've ever met in the predator hunting community.

[ July 18, 2023, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on July 23, 2023, 02:39 PM:
 
I met clever Gary, took a tour of hios shooting rigg and was invited to hunt with him next day. I walked up to his truck in morning with my rifle and he says no that wont work in tight quarters so our hunt was canceled. I thought fuck him he don't know shit. Later that day went out with Shaw and Higgy, shot one coyote at less than 30 yards and another I think around 40 or 50 yards with a scoped rifle of fixed 10x. Yeah Gary a fucken idiot.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on July 23, 2023, 02:44 PM:
 
Leonard not trying to save dogs hearing. Some just hate the gun going off and run off or sit back a few 100 yards till im done with the coyote while some of the other dogs are still with me. Whats worse though is when a guy shoots over the top of the dogs running a coyote, the wiz or crack of the bullet just shuts them down, take a good 3 hours just to get them going again and I have to make dam sure no one shoots around them rest of the day. Thats just way it is with certain breeds.
 

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