This is topic what are you using on coyotes? in forum Firearms forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 23, 2017, 11:16 AM:
Trying to get an idea on the firearm you prefer in pursuit of coyotes?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 23, 2017, 04:29 PM:
For those too shy to vote and see the results, 5 of the 7 voters favor twenty-two. That's about what I expected, no news there.
Keep it coming.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 24, 2017, 05:37 AM:
3 so far users of 17, one 24, one shotgun and the rest 22.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on April 24, 2017, 07:07 AM:
Really kind of surprised that more folks aren't carrying rifle & shotgun in the truck and letting stand terrain dictate the choice of banger.
They must be hunting different cover than I do or setting up differently.
Posted by Moe (Member # 4494) on April 24, 2017, 07:22 AM:
Depends on the terrain. I tried carrying both shotgun and rifle but quit. If I'm hunting heavy brush I carry the shotgun but most times I take the rifle.
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on April 24, 2017, 07:38 AM:
I voted for the .22 caliber but I use my .204 Ruger almost as much as my 22-250 Ackley. And I always have a shotgun with me. But it would only let me vote for one.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 24, 2017, 10:13 AM:
Well, I thought about that. Then decided it would hopelessly confuse the results. Everybody has that stuff on board and can make a decision based on where he happens to pull over, what looks good. Even hunting at night, from the truck, do I want to mention that I unlimber the 25'06 Ackley when I have a volunteer sitting down and beyond 300 yards. Everybody has options but I was thinking that when all is said and done, twenty-two caliber ain't exactly obsolete. And, that's what this little unscientific survey demonstrates.
However, I'm more than willing to a do over if somebody can explain how to frame the questions? LB
edit: PS I have said before, that I spent many years checking in animals on contests and realistically, could not tell the difference on any given animal: was the damage due to a 22-250 or a 243? You might say the same thing about a 17Remington versus a 20Tac?
[ April 24, 2017, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by earthwalker (Member # 4177) on April 24, 2017, 04:10 PM:
Also use .204 but couldn't vote for 2 different cals.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 25, 2017, 07:49 AM:
Some adventurous soul actually admitted using between 25-30 caliber! Well, for now, it's still legal. Enjoy it while you can!
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: quit complaining! They didn't let you vote for two Presidents, did they? (just kidding)
[ April 25, 2017, 07:51 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on April 25, 2017, 10:10 AM:
No..........but GranPa, who's been dead for fifty years, came to town for the last election and voted for The Hildabeast a bunch of times.
Didn't even stop by to say Hi, either.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 26, 2017, 04:40 AM:
Still, a little surprising. 29 votes, of which 6 claim they are using 17 caliber. If that's the case, The Coyote Gods would/should still be around? Then, there's that single vote (by ko ko), for sticks and strings.
Shotgun, understandable. But, killing a coyote with a bow is quite an accomplishment. Handgun? I did it once, the planets will never align the same again.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by 243aaron (Member # 4786) on April 26, 2017, 08:09 PM:
I voted for the .24 but also shoot a .204, .17-223 and a .223. Kinda all depends on where I'm hunting and the conditions.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 26, 2017, 08:53 PM:
Yes, I'm aware of that. I own, and kill coyotes with....
223R
223Ackley
22-250Ackley
22-250Ackley
22/243Middlested
6MMRemingtom
243Winchester
243Ackley
25'06Ackley
and others, but I could only pick one ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
edit: neglected to list either of my 220Swifts above
[ April 28, 2017, 12:41 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 27, 2017, 03:41 AM:
I took "preferred" as if it meant: "if ya only had one", and voted as such.
It'd be .224 caliber, but the brass stamp would say ".243Win", and the shoulder angle would denote "Ackley Improved"...
Posted by Brent Parker (Member # 4354) on April 27, 2017, 05:05 AM:
Leonard,
Black Board isn't around more due to money than anything else. Everything is still saved, if I only hunted for fur I would back to a .17 Remington in a heartbeat. I never had any of those problems I read about. Killed plenty of coyotes beyond 200 with it. It wasn't perfect but for fur the only thing I ever saw close was the .204 Ruger with 35 Bergers.
I am however hunting more year round and don't feel like loading for more than 1 caliber. So a .243 Winchester it is. 80 Barnes TTSX do pretty darn good on fur and for those bad angle shots and the long stuff in heavy wind I like it better. Probably the best of both worlds would be a heavy .22 bullet out of a Creedmore or .243 sized case.
Brent
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 27, 2017, 06:40 AM:
Can't argue with your choice. A good 243 is hard to beat in many applications. For some reason, I always preferred the 6MM Remington, it had a little more capacity, I've owned several, but between it and 243Winchester, there ain't a nickels' worth of difference.
Actually, when I went to Africa, I took my 300Win and my little Model 600, chambered in 6MM Remington. I intended to use the 300 on plains game and just use the 6mm for jackals and caracals. Guess what? I killed everything with the little gun. After sighting in the 300, I never fired it at game. So, a 243 class cartridge covers a lot of ground, especially with the variety of bullets available.
I haven't heard it advocated, but a man could probably go to Africa with one gun and a 243Winchester might suffice? It won't work if you want dangerous game, but considering the variety of game available over there, I think a 243 would be adequate right up to Kudu but maybe not Eland? Still, covers a lot of ground. Think Kudu=Elk, think Eland=Moose. That's asking a lot of a 100 grain bullet.
So, a 243 will be guaranteed to knock a coyote flat! You won't have many runners, that's for sure. What's not to like?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on April 27, 2017, 06:52 AM:
I agree with Brent if I were strictly hunting for fur all the time I would take my 17 Tactical hands down. But I haven't really been serious about fur for a few years now. As of late I have really been enjoying my CZ 527 in 204 Ruger shooting the 45 grain soft points does a great job killing with very little damage. But again when I want to make sure I get dead coyotes and if I could only choose one gun it would be my .22-250 Ackley with 60 grain Bergers.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 27, 2017, 07:45 AM:
I've been telling people that for twenty years, Chad! A good 22-250 Ackley is damned near the perfect coyote cartridge. And, those that question it have usually made some mistake along the way, like inadequate twist or just picking the wrong bullet and then blaming the cartridge for their fuck up.
I have two 22-250 Ackley's but for daylights, The past what? four years I have been very happy with my 22-243Middlested. But, guess what? It's about 100fps slower than one of my 22-250AI's. That makes no difference on a daylight gun. My 22-250Ackley night gun moves a 64 grain bullet at 3925fps while the Middlested, with four more grains capacity, shoots a 62 grain Berger at 3810fps. Some barrels are fast some are slow, and that Middlested is a sweet little rifle, regardless. Hell, it's 200 fps faster than my 220Swift! How'ed that happen?
Another thing I have said for many years is, why doesn't some rifle maker chamber for 22-250 Ackley? It's perfect for just about any application up to and including most deer.
Another thing, people just don't seem to get it when I talk about this 22-243Middlested. Like, WTF is that? It's just a slightly different 22-243, straight or improved, there ain't much difference. Just geometry; performance wise, they are damned near identical.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on April 27, 2017, 08:05 AM:
Yeah I've wondered why a factory manufacturer hasn't picked up the .22-250 Ackley myself. It is far superior to the standard .22-250 Rem. with a lot less fuss. And better in my opinion than the 220 Swift. Just not any flies on it that I can see....
Good Hunting Chad
Edit: And yes if someone did do it I would hope it was a 12 twist
[ April 27, 2017, 08:26 AM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 27, 2017, 10:43 AM:
Yeah, that's crucial. Whatever twist you have you are stuck with it. If you think a fast twist is really macho, you have to live with the bullets that are available, which are more suitable for gong shows than critters. I hate it when somebody insists on 50 and 55 grain bullets, doesn't know how to pick the right powder, then is so disappointed in performance of his new 22-250Improved. Sometimes, these guys have no business wading into uncharted waters.
Everybody has a dream. lol
Good hunting. El Bee
PS mine was 223Ackley. What was I thinking, anyway? Sounded good, on paper.
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on April 27, 2017, 01:52 PM:
Had one of those myself Leonard. It was a disappointment. Sold it and bought my first 204 ruger. Like it much better
Posted by WhiteMtnCur (Member # 5) on April 27, 2017, 06:28 PM:
I'm that adventurous soul who voted for the .25 category; I'm campaigning a .257 WSM this year. No appreciable benefit on coyotes inside 500 over my .22-6, but the need for longer range capabilities is growing every year and I wanted something with more muscle for the bad hits that inevitably happen when distances increase. So far it seems to be filling the bill nicely.
Posted by Moe (Member # 4494) on April 27, 2017, 06:31 PM:
Cartridges I've used for hunting predators
30-06
243
222
22-250
222 Mag
204
257 Roberts (great cartridge)
220 Swift
223
223AI
My favorite cartridge is the 22-250 with the 223AI as a backup. Both of the rifles I carry to the filed are Sako's. I've owned 5 22-250's over the years including a Kimber 84M Classic. Nice rifle but didn't fit me right.
Right now I own 2 22-250's, a 223AI, 220 Swift and a 7mm Rem Mag. I also have 5 shotguns but I only use one for coyotes. It's also my goose gun.
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on April 28, 2017, 06:50 AM:
Yeah I've used quite a few different cartridges for Coyotes myself.
.270 Win
.243 Win
.223 Rem
.223 Ackley
.221 Fireball
.17 Rem
.17 Tactical
.17 Ackley Hornet
.204 Ruger
.22-250 Rem
.22-250 Ackley
I have seriously thought about building me a .25-06 Ackley for a long range Coyote gun/ Deer rifle.....
I do own 3 shotguns. A Benelli M2, An early 1980's Remington 870 Wingmaster, and a late 50's Belgium made Browning Auto 5....
[ April 28, 2017, 01:29 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 28, 2017, 12:39 PM:
Two things.
First, I haven't killed a bunch of coyotes with my 25'06Ackley. But, when I unlimbered the beast, it was a memorable shot. Some were not even visible without the telescopic sight, truly, amazed my friends, especially the time in September 1995 when my partner, an accomplished shooter in his own right volunteered to buy me a steak dinner at the next opportunity.
Second, of all the rifles I might have forgotten to list, above would be the one with which I killed, by far the most predators of any kind, purchased immediately after every rifle I ever owned was stolen in a home burglary. I believe it was in 1975 when Ruger first chambered for the 220Swift and I had to have it. I killed my first coyote with a borrowed 220Swift. I also killed my first bobcat with the same borrowed 220Swift so owning one was kinda special to me. I still have it, with a different barrel. I will correct the record above.
You know, I might have mentioned a time or two, that certain words are magic. One such is 220Swift. It says a lot more than 5.56mm, don't ya think?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on April 28, 2017, 01:25 PM:
So true about the Swift. If I could buy one in a Remington 700 Classic for a reasonable price I would do it in a second. Really wish I had when they first came out but that was back in my poor days and I never did it. Of course it would just be for the cool factor. Only other I would like to have is that same Classic Rifle in .17 Remington....Again just to say I have one
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 28, 2017, 06:42 PM:
Well, besides "just to say I have one" I need to make the observation that it wouldn't be such a handicap to actually use a Swift. It's one Legend that can back up the reputation.
Course, I don't have to worry about it because I still got mine, even if I haven't fired it in ten years. But, I could kill something with it tomorrow, if I wanted. Yeah, I know about the throat.
Good hunting. El Bee
[ April 28, 2017, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on April 29, 2017, 11:20 AM:
Oh I completely agree with that assessment. The Swift would be one hell of a Coyote rifle to have. But having a .22-250 Ackley kind of defeats the purpose of having the Swift other than For the "cool factor". Not belittling the Swift I just think the Ackley is a better Cartridge. The Swift would just collect dust but like I said it would be cool to have one.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 29, 2017, 04:02 PM:
Exactly. I have the same opinion. I have two 22-250Ackleys and my Swift is not as accurate as it once was, so....
But, when somebody needs a gun, it makes a more than adequate loaner.
Wonder if I should start thinning the herd?
I'm different than Victor, I don't really have a lot, but I tend to keep them. Vic, on the other hand, I have the impression that he's owned probably, (pick a number) 600 guns, or so? Maybe more? I think he's a big trader?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on April 29, 2017, 07:48 PM:
I like so many for different reasons. I guess I like them all. A few months back, LongRifles Inc re-barreled and chambered up a 6mmBR that is a repeater. Threaded of course for a suppressor.
Posted by Moe (Member # 4494) on April 30, 2017, 08:28 AM:
I picked up a brand new Rem 700 Classic at a local gun show and rebarreled it to 220 Swift. I stuck a Jewell trigger in it just for giggles. It's killed maybe a half dozen coyotes.
Doctors tell me my time is limited so I'll be selling my guns rather than burdening my wife with them. I've yet to figure out prices.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 30, 2017, 10:08 AM:
Don't talk negative, Moe. But I understand your concern. For one thing, the one left behind has little interest. And, you are far more able to get a fair price. If it becomes up to my son in law to dispose of my shit, he'll probably wholesale it out 10% on the dollar. Kinda bothers me, ya know?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on April 30, 2017, 11:12 AM:
Sorry to hear that moe, getting old is the shits. My dad is about you and Leonard's age and he has really been struggling with his health too. Had both kidneys removed and has been on dialysis for a few years and has really slowed down and now diabetes is making matters worse. Hell five or six years ago he was in great shape. It's really hard to see it happen and know there's not a damn thing you can do about it. Makes you realize how precious life is. You will be in my thoughts and prayers. Hang in there
Good Hunting Chad
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on April 30, 2017, 12:27 PM:
After my battle with cancer I stay as busy as the energizer bunny and live everyday like it was my last. All that's left is a little old man but I'm still kickin ass and taken names . Don't ever give up just live all day every day !
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 01, 2017, 10:27 AM:
That's a damned fine inspirational message, Paul. Good luck to you.
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on May 01, 2017, 08:46 PM:
Yes, same here.
Mark
Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on May 02, 2017, 09:40 AM:
I'm a little bit surprised that more guys don't use .17 calibers. For me, when I started way back when, with my first rifle being a .270, I quickly figured out that it was, well, a wee bit rough on em. Killed em dead alright. SO I downsized to a .243 and sure enough, didn't take long to figure out it killed em dead alright too, but was still rough on em more times than not. So I then downsized to a 22-250 and it wasn't quite as rough on em, and still killed em dead without a problem. Then I downsized to a .204 and found it still killed em dead for the most part, wasn't nearly as rough on the fur, but seemed to kill em dead pretty well. So I then dropped down to a .17/204 and a .17 Rem. and guess it seems like to me that they kill em dead pretty well too, without hardly doing any damage what's so ever to the fur.
Why does it seem like I'm one of the few that just kept downsizing cartridge size? Why does it seem like so many guys need cannon's to kill em? Is it that most guys shoot em way out yonder, beyond my shooting ability? I know I've converted a couple of guys to .17's after they've watched me drop a few while they were with me.
Hell, I figure if my .270 could kill an elk with 150 grain bullet which I did many, a 25 or 30 gr. bullet seems adequate to kill a coyote.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 02, 2017, 10:25 AM:
Let me address your question, TR.
First, we need to decide the objective. Is it killing, or not?
Also, we should consider the motivation. Is it financial? Is it sport, or is it possibly, Competition?
You already made the point that killing was observationally a little more decisive with a 270.
Some of us might pull a cat, for the renumeration, but as far as coyotes, sometimes, they are hardly worth the trouble.
As one who has always been a contest hunter, I question the finality of the 17MachIV, at distance. Almost beside the point, but especially critical at seventeen caliber is bullet selection. Speaking in generalities, damned near any 6mm bullet is adequate, if all you want to do is kill a coyote; accuracy a given.
Then, there is a strong resistance to change. Seventeens may have been around for 40 years, but I've never owned one. Never say never, but I'm not in the market at this point.
There was a post, somewhere, might have been last week in which the member claimed little, to no destruction from a copper 6mm bullet, so (just maybe) there is no vast need for all of us to sally forth with one of those newfangled subcalibers?
I don't know? If you are an expert marksman and an accomplished hunter, and you are in it from the financial standpoint, I have no problem with a seventeen or a 20? Whatever floats your boat.
But, the recent poll still shows that twenty-two caliber is King, and I expect that to continue for a very long time because, I have found, to my satisfaction, that my 22-250Ackley is extremely fur friendly with the right bullet and extremely deadly at all reasonable distances. In short, I don't need a seventeen, just yet. But, who knows? One day, I might suddenly perceive a need? It is, for sure a neat little novelty cartridge!
Whatever, folks.
Good hunting. E Bee
Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on May 02, 2017, 02:16 PM:
Leonard, you should at least try to kill one with a .17, even a suppressed .17 if ya get a chance. Who knows, you might like it! The lack of recoil alone would make ya smile, and then hearing the thump of impact, and watching in your scope a crumpling coyote, might just turn your old dog ways unto something new. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 02, 2017, 03:53 PM:
Back in the early 70's, my partner had one and we both used it at night depending on who was on the light. We only grabbed it on easy chip shots and had no problem, within strict limitations. I probably killed a hundred or so with a Mach 4. I have zero experience beyond about 150 or so but we had no problem with that seventeen with discipline. In our application, I never felt it was a must have tool. So that's kind of the basis for my thinking. LB
Posted by Brent Parker (Member # 4354) on May 03, 2017, 05:50 AM:
I was and am still a seventeen fan, make no mistake I have killed a lot of coyotes with one.
As Leonard mentioned from a fur standpoint I believe it was as good as it gets. Things change applications change and needs change. As mentioned earlier I no longer own a seventeen rifle. Not because I think they are inferior but simply because I simply have no use for one. With my other obligation its just simpler to get it done with one gun. In a lot of peoples eyes a .243 is too big for coyotes and not a fur gun. Since switching to 80 TTSX Barnes bullets I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a cat at 50 yards and know full well that as long as I place my bullet right it will be a simple sewing job.
I think Cal stated best once. On those multiple coyotes when they come in, normally that first shot is the best shot. After that the angles and high percentage shots are going down hill at a rapid rate. I know I no longer worry about angles, bones or distance as I would have with my .17. I used my .17 Remington in a different context with a different purpose. I know if I shoot one now it will have two holes and leaking blood. After that the dogs can sort thing out if need be. 400 yards away and quartering away is not the shot I want with a .17 but I will happily take that shot with my .243. Most likely it will be laying there or within a few yards. I haven't shot the smaller Barnes much in .22 caliber but that will soon change as I bought one of the Tikka T3 .22-250 with an 8 twist barrel just to try for that reason. However the 80 TTSX hammers coyotes without the normal fur damage associate with that caliber. I am about 250 coyotes into the 80 TTSX and I like what I see.
Brent
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on May 03, 2017, 06:13 AM:
I'm in the same camp as Brent. Agree with everything he said except mine setup is a .22-250 Ackley Improved and 60 grain Bergers.
Posted by Moe (Member # 4494) on May 04, 2017, 04:13 PM:
One cartridge that has fascinated me for years is the 257 Roberts Ackley Improved. My first calling rifle was a Sako Forester in 243 which was the standard in the CVCA when I first joined. I shot Sierra 75 gr Spitzers. I'm not looking for an argument when I say this but when I got my 22-250 in about 1966 I found it anchored critters far better than the 243.
But.......Imagine using a 75 grain bullet running at about 3700 fps.
Years ago I had a friend who had a Winchester pre 64 model 70 in 257 Roberts that he shot a record group for hunting rifles with. He wanted to take it hunting so we did. We took it out on a night hunt and really hit it just right. Accurate as hell and hit hard. It isn't practical here in Oregon because of the stupid laws regarding what calibers you can hunt coyotes with in some areas at certain times or I'd already have one.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on May 04, 2017, 05:28 PM:
Could be worse, Moe.
When I lived in Wash. (wet side) the Regs read "in the field with .243 or larger during deer season....deer tag required."
No problem.
Calling coyotes during a deer season with a Johnny Stewart 512 & a .223/12 Gauge o/u.
Problem.
Game warden checked me out and informed me that I would be cited if he caught me hunting without a deer tag again.
Drove to Fish & Game Hq. in Olympia, asked to speak to a law enforcement supervisor and explained the situation to him.
His response (and I'll never forget this one) "Well, that's not in the Regs, but you can be cited for it".
That was the last time I ever hunted in Wash.
No regrets.........the folks I met at Fields Ore. turned out to be real nice & the hunting was better, too.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 04, 2017, 10:05 PM:
Whenever I get around to it, my little Model 600 has stood by me in 6mm for many years, but it deserves a new barrel. I have thought about a 250Savage Improved and a 257 Roberts but in such a short action, I think the original shoulder might be smarter. Main thing is that I view this rig as a light big game rifle and as such, the wider variety of heavier bullets available in 25 caliber is a strong inducement. What the hell I am waiting for, I don't know?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by NVWalt (Member # 375) on May 05, 2017, 02:59 AM:
This has been an interesting read so far.And I like both the 22 and 17 cals for coyotes but will say that ,me being one cheap SOB, that I still use the hornady 25 hps in my 17 Rem.. The thing I have found after umpteen coyotes is that it is a very unforgiving bullet if not placed well.Almost all of the coyotes I do shoot with it are in the 100 and under range and called right to me with a handcall. So with a slop shot it usually, and I mean usually, smacks them hard enough I have time to run another round in them and finish the poor bastard off. But not always. I could use my shotgun on the majority of shots but just like using that little 17 because I can watch it all go down through the scope and I may be sick but do absolutely enjoy watching the show in front of me. When I used my 22's one 223 and am on my 6th 22-250 they all worked well and I have no complaints about them at all.Seems if you could see em you could shoot em with that 22-250 and have a dead coyote slop shots excluded.
And about slop shots, in over 50 years of calling and wacking coyotes you can rack up a lot of slop shots. So much for being an accomplished marksman eh?
Anyways, I do have that 700 classic in 17 rem with the little skinny barrel and light weight and just love the heck out of it.It's easy to carry and just plain fun to shoot and to watch your bullet hit and see the reaction through the scope at the same time is priceless to me anyhow.
I believe that it isn't for new guys to play with because they tend to get buck fever and just shoot at fur instead of placing the shot.But to each his own and it doesn't matter to me anyways what they choose to shoot a coyote with.
Been a good read so far and makes me wonder if I might like to get the newest 22-250 turned into an AI. Food for thought anyways.
You all have fun out there no matter what you shoot them with.....Walt
Posted by Brent Parker (Member # 4354) on May 05, 2017, 12:47 PM:
Moe,
No argument here, but my experience has been completely the opposite so far. However I run a fast twist .243 and a slow twist 22-250. Personally I believe a fast twist kills better. I have a 1-8 22-250 coming and will see how that works out. Kelly runs a 22 Creedmoore and said its a killing sob. Have no reason to doubt him. He went from a .243AI to the .22 Creedmoore. 75 Bergers at 3500 is my understanding.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 05, 2017, 04:21 PM:
It's just bewildering the combinations you can put together. One of my 22-250Ackley's has a 14 twist and what with the bullet weight and barrel length, it turned out a very satisfactory coyote killer and a more dependable fur gun than some others chambered with a reputation for being good on fur. A 17 Remington can blow the hell out of a coyote without that surgical precision bullet placement.
Some people think this stuff just sorts itself out, and sometimes you wind up very disappointed if you spec. it out with a fast twist and high velocity and wind up with excessive RPM, perhaps winding up with a miniature hand grenade bullet. There are many ways of shooting yourself in the foot.
I'm just saying, you can dream up a winner, a real flamethrower, and once in a while, you get what you ask for, but it might not work as expected. You can take a high capacity case and blow out the shoulder and specify (maybe a 7 twist) then load light bullets for high velocity.
It's kinda why they take a 300Weatherby and neck it to 7mm and shorten the case to keep you from owning a rifle with a 200 round life. I have heard, actually knew a man that owned a 6-284 and by the time he had worked up a load, in his quest for high velocity, the barrel's accuracy was a thing of the past. With some cartridges, you better have your load pretty much nailed down from previous experience or from another shooter before you start experimenting with bullets, powders and primers.
I don't know if we actually NEED 400 different cartridges with obscure applications? For some people, having something different is all the justification needed. Then there is the latest super short Magnum cases. You know, the trend towards short fat cartridges? Some really are cool, like the new Noslers. And the trend away from belts on magnum cartridges; why did we need belts in the first place? Take a semi rimmed case and headspace it on the shoulder. Hello, 220Swift. Rebate the rim, that trend is coming back. You have dies that cost $30 and others that are $150, well because they are "exotic".
Excuse the ramble, carry on.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on May 08, 2017, 03:57 AM:
That .22Creed is kinda splitting the difference in capacity between the .22-250AI and the .22-243Win.
Bonus is that the .22Creed & .22-243Win are a simple, one pass neck down operation from their parent case. No need to fireform, like the .22-250AI or .22-243AI. And with fire breathing hotrods, that does save barrel life...
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on May 08, 2017, 05:08 AM:
The fire forming deal is a non issue for me. I Load max or alittle over standard 22-250 load and go out and kill Coyotes. It's very close to the accuracy of my Ackley loads and I can't tell any difference in how they kill Coyotes. After that load and shoot in Ackley. Did that with 200 rounds and that should be it for this barrel.......
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 08, 2017, 05:34 AM:
Get with the program, fellas. I fire form in the garage, without bullets. No wasted barrel life for this kid. And, when I sight down the barrel at fur, I want the performance I paid for.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on May 08, 2017, 05:57 AM:
That's my method too UT, I hate blowing hot powder gas down the tube just to make noise. I have had four different Ackleys, and always loaded for whatever the parent cartridge was, then took it out hunting and killed stuff. Always very accurate, killed a coyote, and fire formed the case....no brainer?
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on May 08, 2017, 06:22 AM:
Yeah of the 200 rounds of brass I have fire formed for my Ackley probably 150 of those killed Coyotes.
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on May 08, 2017, 06:24 AM:
double post
[ May 08, 2017, 06:24 AM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 08, 2017, 07:55 AM:
Well, different strokes for different folks. <shrug>
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on May 08, 2017, 08:58 AM:
Oh, I agree!
Seeing as how I shoot:
.17Predator
.223AI
6x45AI
.22-243AI
30-338Norma Imp.
...I'm not particularly troubled by fireforming.
And seeing as how I got three new farms to hunt that are loaded with woodchucks, there should be quite a bit of fun forming like this going on...
[ May 08, 2017, 09:07 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 08, 2017, 09:16 AM:
Yeah but I think part of my point is, take something like my 25'06Ackley for which I started off with 200 cases and had very little load workup because I already had data from my previous barrel.
So, this is just a wild ass guess but maybe I will fire that rifle 20 times a season. I'm probably exaggerating but even so, it could take ten years of slightly subpar fire forming loads before I would have the benefit of the performance I expected and needed.
So, I don't much give a shit. I'll do it my way, and I think my way is more better. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on May 08, 2017, 11:37 PM:
I guess it depends if you want to screw around in your garage or screw around in the field. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 09, 2017, 04:38 AM:
Ya, you nailed it.
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