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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on June 15, 2015, 10:49 AM:
 
Okay, going to do a little bench racing here...

Suppressed rig is in my future. Not real soon, gotta work it into the budget and the process takes some time anyway. But, it's going to happen.

So...

Going to ask a bunch of questions and do a lot of just thinking out loud in this thread. See where it takes me.

I know I can just google all this stuff and I'm sure I'll do a lot of that too. But, I also know there are some guys here with experience and whose opinions I value, so, why not ask here?

With that out of the way... Some questions I have right out of the gate:

- How much length will the suppressor add? Likely varies by make and model, I'm sure, but what's the range? Performance hit for trying to keep it shorter?

- How much barrel diameter is required for the suppressor threads? Don't know if I'll be buying a new barrel or lopping off and threading an existing one, but the required diameter might narrow the field of candidates I already have on the shelf.

- Thoughts on going to the trust route on license?

- Any theoretical or practical disadvantage or performance hit to using a smaller caliber, like a .204 or even a .17 with a .30 cal can?

- What can do you have? Anything you'd do different? Would you get the same one again now? Don't have one, but ahead of me in research? What's looking good to you?

That's enough questions for starters!

- DAA
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 15, 2015, 01:00 PM:
 
Well, I have questions, too. I don't own one, of course, but I guess I could be convinced?

My experience is limited to a little range time with a full auto M4, and it was tolerable without plugs.

But, the cost of these things! Am I correct in assuming we are looking at maybe a grand plus the treasury stamp?

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on June 15, 2015, 01:49 PM:
 
Plus the cost of having a barrel or barrels threaded for it.

I'd like to skip the cost of a new barrel, but not sure if that will work or not. Have to see. The two I think I'd consider, are a .20-250 or a 6-284. Neither one of which am I thrilled about chopping down to 20 or 21 inches. And, either one of which, might be a bit much to suppress, at those lengths? They are louder than hell at 25".

If those don't have enough diameter for the threads, I might cut down a .243AI barrel I have.

Or, buy a new one. Maybe even get on for a Savage, just to save some dough? Naaaaawwww... Scratch that. If I get a new barrel I'll have to have it fit and chambered to one of my nice actions.

- DAA
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 15, 2015, 02:08 PM:
 
No experience whatsoever, but I wouldn't worry about the barrel suitability for threading. There are dozens of threads, American and metric that you could have custom machined if your concern is an existing small diameter barrel. Assuming it would be a dedicated attachment. Yes, from what I hear, they are standardizing the thread pitch but it doesn't have to be, this is very basic machine shop work.

I assume the sound suppression is a linear formula. A six inch can will give you X number of dB reduction and a ten inch will give you that much more. So, if you need to (effectively) supress a 6-284, you would be looking at a fairly longish can.

So, time for the testimonials. Bring it on.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on June 15, 2015, 02:17 PM:
 
Dave , you might consider an existing used, but not quite used up barrel to start with. Remember the muzzle brake craze in the 90's? One other thing, in fact about the only worthwhile info I can offer is, INSIST on a test drive on any and all products that might interest you. Lots of pretenders out there waiting to take your cash who haven't a clue what a dedicated and knowledgable person expects/demands.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on June 15, 2015, 02:29 PM:
 
Silencerco Omega.

7", 14oz, 5.7-300 WM rated, FA rated, different end caps for different calibers 5/8x24 or 1/2x28 or QD attachments.

One of the smallest yet quietest cans on the market now.

I know there are folks here who know more than I but this is the first one to get me thinking about another one.
http://silencerco.com/products/omega/

[ June 15, 2015, 03:06 PM: Message edited by: TOM64 ]
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on June 15, 2015, 04:59 PM:
 
Have to agree with Tom...5/8 x 24 for barrels with a rem varm contour or similar.

I dont like any with the quick detach threaded muzzle break with the exception of the silencerco omega. I have witnessed others go down range, but the omegas locking system is much better. The omega would be my choice at this point for quality and value.

Silencerco's harvestor is also a good choice....they were on sale for a little over 500$ which made them one of the best buys for the buck.

Barry Bass at silencer tech makes some good cans also. I have run his Rhino (small compact) but frankly didn't care for its quieting abilities. His 3G is a much better can, but bigger. Thats what you will find, its hard to get top performance out of a small can. I can message you Barry's number if you want. He is a good source of knowledge, super nice guy and a coyote hunter.
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on June 15, 2015, 05:01 PM:
 
Oh yeah, you can thread an existing barrel, but be sure to index off of the bore and maintain a good crown. Also, definitely go with a trust.

Lb, the 'linear' concept is somewhat correct in the fact you are dealing with compressed gases (larger cartridge, more gases), but cooling of gases is also a factor. Baffle designs are crucial and thus kept secret and patented. So yes, size does matter, but the efficiency of the plumbing is crucial also...but who doesn't know that....lol.

[ June 15, 2015, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: CrossJ ]
 

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Posted by Aaron Rhoades (Member # 4234) on June 15, 2015, 06:46 PM:
 
Dave, I don't have much experience but did some research before buying mine and this is what I found, on average, a .223 can will be 6 inches with a range of 5.5 to 7 or so. Negligible performance hit on the shorter can, internals design is the most difference. Typical .223 threading is 1/2x28, next step up is 5/8x24 for bigger calibers or there are different threading options other than that that I don't know anything about. Possibly for a .300 or .338 they want beefier threads? The trust route is the way to go in my opinion, for several reasons. One is so that if you pass on, whoever else is in your trust will be able to keep the suppressor. I believe the law enforcement signature requires it to go back to the feds if you pass on. Another reason is so you don't have to get the signature. The first suppressor I bought is at 3 years now and I still don't have it because the shop I bought it from set it up for CLEO signature originally even though I told them I wanted to go the trust route. Sure enough, our local guy wouldn't sign it and after messing around for months, I lost motivation. Finally this winter I bought a trust and got it going again. That one should be here in another 3 weeks or a month. A disadvantage with a .30 cal can on smaller calibers is the suppression won't be as good simply because the hole is bigger. It would still work fine though. Another suppressor that I got based on picking TR's brain was the SAS Sentinel Ti .223. I went with it for a bunch of the same reasons TR did, main one was TR liked it on a .17-.204 which is what I was going to be using it on, lightweight, I think 11-12 oz., it is titanium, which you will pay more for. Also one last thing that you should be able to identify, I have a Lilja #3 contour at 22 inches and it had enough meat to thread. I wanted short because of the extra length of the suppressor as this is a calling rifle and I figured I would be able to get my velocity still at 22 inches and I did. Any of that make any sense?
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 15, 2015, 06:49 PM:
 
Right. I know that. I was speaking in relative terms, same design, more baffles, dictates a longer device.

Although a QD system kinda screams for attention, especially when you want to stick your gun in a case, threads make a lot more sense.

I don't know if the science is mature, or there could be significant breakthroughs in design that would allow for a more compact can? I'd hate to be the one that spends a grand on last years model.

Hey, everybody knows I'm a skeptic. But, under the right conditions I could be convinced. Right now, I can't get it out of my head that this is either a con or an elitist situation.

Yes, I know about the hearing loss but those game ears things have been around a long time. And, my hearing aids have a shooting mode.

Don't let me be a wet blanket. I want this issue completely wrung out.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on June 15, 2015, 07:00 PM:
 
Give me a call if you have any more questions..

- How much length will the suppressor add? 6" to 8" Likely varies by make and model, I'm sure, but what's the range? Performance hit for trying to keep it shorter? Yes, volume is an important parameter in dB

- How much barrel diameter is required for the suppressor threads? roughly 1/2"(length or more if I recall correctly)

Don't know if I'll be buying a new barrel or lopping off and threading an existing one, but the required diameter might narrow the field of candidates I already have on the shelf.

I have found that threads from barrel to can don't have to high tolerances, BUT the can should screw on a shoulder and the shoulder needs to be machined properly for good alignment. nicking the can is real bad

- Thoughts on going to the trust route on license?

Absolutely go the trust route. Do research, its the easiest and you can pass it on to your kids. no finger prints required, just a notary

- Any theoretical or practical disadvantage or performance hit to using a smaller caliber, like a .204 or even a .17 with a .30 cal can? I've read small performance hit; just make sure threads are compatible. My 22-250 Ackley required a 5/8 thread, not 1/2. 223 and under can do 1/2" w / no issues

- What can do you have? Anything you'd do different? Would you get the same one again now? Don't have one, but ahead of me in research? What's looking good to you?

you'll need to make the decision to buy a "light" or "heavier" can.. The light ones are much more expensive, but might be the best solution. Sucks to be carrying a real heavy gun all day that you don't like.

I've been impressed with Gemtech. Good product. They make a 30 can that's rated u to 300 win mag and would cover all of your lesser calibers!

[ June 15, 2015, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on June 15, 2015, 07:09 PM:
 
Dave, I'm really new at this stuff also, but I ordered a Silencerco Omega back in Feb. I got to hold it a month or so back, but it's not in my possession yet.

When holding the Omega, it didn't seem like enough to totally throw things outta balance, but since I have to get may barrel threaded anyway, I may shorten my 22-250 barrel to 22"

According to Silencerco, they say a minimum of .100" over thread size to give the suppressor a shoulder to mate up against. If a guy is going for the standard 5/8"-24, you can see you're in the .750" range.

For my #3 contour barrel, I'm going to have to buy a 1/2"-28 thread mount due to my barrel size. The Omega comes standard with 5/8"-24. So I'll have to spring for another $65 or so.

One thing I've noticed is this stuff costs. The suppressor, the tax, a trust, a different thread mount, barrel threaded, etc... BTW, I didn't do the trust thing. Might be a huge mistake, but I was tired of spending money.

At this point, I just want to use a rifle I have now threaded for the can. I can see where someday setting up a rifle with a shorter heavier barrel for a can might be the way to go. At this point though, I just want to get the damn thing and let my ears hear what this is all about.

[ June 15, 2015, 07:13 PM: Message edited by: Lonny ]
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on June 15, 2015, 07:10 PM:
 
Trust vs individual vs corporation.

I don't have a trust and the dealer I used didn't know anything about them. If you have friends you want to loan your suppressor to, this is the way to go.

Individual, LE here is fine with suppressors and I went this route. My heirs can file a form to transfer after my death for $5 according to what I have read. I have a valid reason to not loan my suppressor to anyone. They can buy their own, I did.

Corporation, I do have a corporation and have a buddy who goes this route. I might want to sell out so I decided against that route.
 

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Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on June 15, 2015, 07:19 PM:
 
On the topic of trusts, the guy I bought my can through talked me out of one. I don't have any plans on loaning it out, but am I missing something here?

How much did you guys spend to get your trusts. I found a local lawyer and he wanted $300-500! That's also part of the reason I said fuck'em.
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on June 15, 2015, 07:28 PM:
 
Guys, what the hell?

My local dealer provided me a trust for free! They use the same one for all of their customers...

[ June 15, 2015, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on June 15, 2015, 07:32 PM:
 
Dave, I mailed my forms in mid December, and got my paperwork approved by mid March! Just a bench mark..
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on June 16, 2015, 04:34 AM:
 
Cheapest trust I've heard of was $100 till now.

Still don't see the need as long as LE is willing to sign off. I've already got fingerprints on file.
 

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Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on June 16, 2015, 05:05 AM:
 
I also skipped the trust, was very simple but I can see if you live some where, where your LE won't sign off easily, then it might be a hassle. The other plus that I can think of with a trust, is you can have family members listed on the same trust, so that they too can be in possession of the suppressor, without you being in presence. And if you die, said family members simply take possession of the suppressor, without further paper work.
In general, you need .625" barrel OD for 1/2" x 28, and need approx. .725" for 5/8" x 24 threads. Gotta have a shoulder to snug up to.
I personally went with a .556/.22 cal. can to keep it as short, light, and small as possible. Lots of guys go with a .30 cal can so that they can run it on more rifles, instead of being limited to .22 cal and smaller. I rarely shoot larger cal. rifles, so that was a none issue for me. Plus, .30 cal cans are obviously larger and heavier. Seems a consensus that .30 cal will suppress smaller cals. just fine. Not necessarily as well, but well enough.
Threading, with thread protector, seems to run from $75. -$125 depending on where you are. Just make sure who ever threads the barrel knows what they are doing. There is a wrong way and a right way.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 16, 2015, 05:18 AM:
 
One benefit already, I knew nothing about the "trust" issue? Being the procrastinator that I am, I have not done anything about the succession issue. Recently, I read about how, in New York, they were confiscating firearms of deceased people! And soon after, while the heirs were still in shock. These people never rest!

I got a forward, (this morning) from a high school chum, from another classmate who was proudly announcing the fact that she had recently bought a Glock. I had no idea, I didn't know her well, but still, was surprised at the news. According to the accompanying photo, she has "matured" quite a bit since I knew her. Back then, she was a looker, for sure! I'm sure the reason I got the forward, (about Elaine) is because Marlane knows about my gun interests.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on June 16, 2015, 06:47 AM:
 
I see where Silencerco is offering Simple Trusts on their website for $129.

A guy could croak tomorrow, but the whole deal about being able to pass the suppressor on to my kids possibly 20-30 years from now seems a bit far fetched in my mind. Won't the thing be wore out or so outdated by then that it will simply be a piece of scrap titanium?
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on June 16, 2015, 07:47 AM:
 
Lots of excellent input from everyone. Thanks!

It's sounding likely that I can use an existing barrel. Will have to double check some measurements, but I think either my .20-250 or 6-284 barrels which are both Lilja #4's ought to work.

Out of those two, I think I'm leaning towards the .20-250. One reason being, that 6-284 is just so sweet the way it is, I hate to monkey with it. The other being, this will hopefully turn into a main squeeze and as such, some hope for fur friendly is a plus. Need to look at some numbers, but I believe the .20-250 at 20 or 21 inches is still going to be out performing the .204R by a comfortable margin.

The length is a real stumbling block for me. I don't like short barrels on hot rods, at all. But I also don't like overly long barrels for coyote hunting, don't like them at all. If the can is going to add 6 inches, I really think I'm leaning towards lopping the barrel off at 20 inches though.

A 20 inch barreled .20-250 is asinine though, just on the face of it? I think I'd choose something less extreme, if starting from scratch with a new barrel. And, might change course to use a different existing, or just suck it up and get a new one.

Thoughts? On such a short barreled fire breather? Am I going to be shortening the life of the suppressor, or needing to take apart for cleaning frequently, running such an overbore chamber?

And, you can believe, that I'm not letting just anyone go cutting on any of my barrels. I am one anal, picky, snobby son of a bitch when it comes to metal work on my barrels. Greg Tannel will most likely be who I have do that.

Need to do a lot more research, obviously, but it sure sounds like the Silencerco Omega is the clubhouse leader.

Sounds like I better do my homework on the trust thing, but it also sounds like it might be a choice made more by the local LEO situation than anything. My old next door neighbor, who bought a can just for plinking with his .22LR (he doesn't hunt), went the trust route and I think it might have been because of the potential for PITA and/or delay getting the LEO sign off. Our two families are going Jeeping together in Moab this weekend so I'll pick his brain some about that.

And, the expense... Hell, beyond a Walmart Savage .223 with a Tasco scope and a Sceery hand call, everything about this hobby is excess and impossible to justify for a recreational caller. But, a can, compared to say, a USO scope, seems like a pretty cheap thrill?

Thanks again for all the input!

- DAA
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 16, 2015, 09:45 AM:
 
Ouch! As an owner of USO Scopes, yes i get the comparison. Then, on the other hand, if you stop and think about the physics, design and engineering that goes into a high end optic, there is no comparison with a mechanical assembled piece of metal such as a surpresser. L B

edit: in other words, just about anybody can whip up a surpressor in their garage. In fact, I have done it, myself. I certainly wouldn't attempt to build a precision optic, as a hobbyist.

[ June 16, 2015, 10:00 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on June 16, 2015, 10:59 AM:
 
DAA;
".............jeeping together in Moab"
It's been a long time since I was there, but if you take the Warner Lake Loop out of Moab, about a mile before the lake there's a two track on the left that takes you out on a bench & ends at a wilderness area. Awesome place to camp a couple of hundred yards off of the main road. Trout in the lake and the area was crawling with deer when we were there. Sunsets were incredible.
Good times gone by.
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on June 16, 2015, 11:21 AM:
 
Koko, been there many times. Bowhunted the La Sals for more than 20 years. Spent most of my time on the other, less crowded side, but have fished Oowah and Warner many times. Gave up on it a few years back though. Logging has taken out all my old quakie patches, ATV'ers swarm everywhere, including ATV'ers with bows and arrows.

Just got to where it has changed so much, for the worse, I quit going there. Went to hell in a handbasket, as they say. A real shame...

Not to say it isn't still pretty and a fella couldn't still let the air out of a buck, but it sure ain't like it used to be.

- DAA
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on June 16, 2015, 12:32 PM:
 
Dave, I have absolutely ZERO info to give/add about a can, but...
Considering a guy's gotta dream, if I'm ever in an AO that is 'can friendly', I've pretty much made my mind up that I'd build a "shorty" rifle to screw it onto. And you know that firebreathin' hotrods & short barrels do not an amicable couple make. Therefore, my conclusion would be to 'match the hatch' and run a case that thrives on a short barrel.

That said, for a coyote killer, I'd go with what I know and build an 18-20" barreled 6x45 (or Improved version).
You now better than anyone, going up in bore size from a parent case increases the efficiency when pushing same weight bullets. So, ya can get away with less barrel for the same net velocity. And that .243 caliber bullet hits a coyote harder than a .223 does, I'm sure of that. Only trade off for going up in bore size would be marginally less b.c. for same weight bullet...

Heck, I just had built a 6x45AI on a Seven with a 22" #4 Krieger, for a goof around varmint/fun gun. Went ahead and had the barrel threaded 1/2x28", just in case That'd be a neat little round to run suppressed, dontcha think?
 

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Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on June 16, 2015, 12:38 PM:
 
cleaning a suppressor isn't an issue, unless you're running rim fire. Center fire, cleaning isn't an issue. Although, with that said, the maker of the suppressor that I use(S.A.S.) does recommend a periodic cleaning using a mixture of white vinegar, soaked over night, then flushed with water and allowed to dry. SO, no need to get a suppressor that comes apart, unless you run rimfire.
As far as wearing one out. Won't be an issue in our world. When you shoot rapid fire and/or SBR, then it MIGHT become an issue.
Also, as far as how well a .30 cal. suppressor works on the smaller calibers. Think about it like this. Your .17 predator simply puts out a lot less gas then does, say a .300 win. mag. SO, the suppressor works on the .300 Winny, but since there's less gas to capture when shooting a much smaller/much less powder, caliber, the suppressor will still be quite effective.
I can hear the difference, for example, between my .17 Hornet and my .223, using the same can. Obviously, the Hornet uses much less powder, produces much less gas to capture, although it's got a smaller bullet, it is still quieter than the .223. In other words, the smaller bullet going through the suppressor doesn't mean the suppressor isn't going to capture most of the gases.
I can also hear the difference in the sonic crack, between my hornet and my .17/204.
 

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Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on June 16, 2015, 02:36 PM:
 

quote:

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Won't the thing be wore out or so outdated by then that it will simply be a piece of scrap titanium?

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I don't know Fred, I'm not finding it hard to kill coyotes with my .17/204 with a 20" barrel. Still get plenty of speed to kill, apparently, even though it goes against wisdom?

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TR, I like what you did with your .17/204 & think it is a pretty sweet combo!
Just sayin', I'd sooner re-barrel to a 'shorty' 6x45 before chopping 4-6" off the end of my .17Predator.
That's strictly based on my own limited experience with both cartridges. A 55gr Nosler B-tip or 60gr Sierra HP crowding 3K from a 16" tube is a nasty little bugger. Even with a 6" can on the end, that'd still be plenty handy little rifle!

Only reason I went with a 22"er on this 6x45AI is because it's twisted 1:8" to stablize 95gr bullets & I wanted to squeeze what I could outta that little sucker. Otherwise, a 16-18" woulda been a honey for a can to screw onto...

In the case of your .17/204, you've got ooodles of horsepower behind a tiny bullet, so the extra case capacity mitigates velocity loss from hamstringing barrel length.
Whatever "wisdom" dictates, I don't know? But its common knowledge that increasing bore size from a parent case improves the efficiency of the available powder. Simply because, the same net pressure is now working against more surface area, IE rear surface area of the bullet. By improving the efficiency of a case, you can mitigate the velocity lost from going with a shorter barrel...

Different means to the same end, I suppose?
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on June 17, 2015, 05:37 AM:
 
It pains me to chop barrel length off a hot rod, absolutely.

But, since I want to use a barrel I already have, if I can, and all the candidate barrels are hot rods...

The two most likely suspects, as far as barrels already on hand, are both currently at 25", a .20-250 and a 6-284.

Currently running 38's @4200 in the '250 and 55 NBT's @4250 in the 6-284.

Figure, after cutting down to 20", should still be seeing over 4K with either? Some of the pixie dust is going to be lost, for sure, and that does pain me, but, either one is still going to be pretty flat - the Big Twenty still comfortably ahead of the .204R and the Big Six running at about .243 Win. velocity. That's presuming a loss of 40-50 fps, per inch of barrel. If the loss is less, as seems very possible, they'll still be hot rods. Just running restrictive exhausts .

Who knows though. It's early. I have others I can chop, that might make more sense. Just hate to mess with success on most of them. Heck, still might just order up a new blank and have one purpose chambered here, in which case, something a bit more efficient likely would get the nod. But, More Power Scott! When in doubt throttle out! The need for speed! Life starts at 4200 fps! Etc., etc., etc., is who I am, so I doubt I'd go "too" efficient. Maybe emulate Fur's recent build, 20 inch .22-250AI? I'd be sorely tempted to make it a .22-243 instead though. Just can't help myself .

- DAA
 

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Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on June 17, 2015, 05:40 AM:
 
either way Dave, my bet is that once you get a suppressed rig set up and in use, you'll struggle to take out the others without a suppressor attached.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 17, 2015, 06:51 AM:
 
I'm just really amused at the dreamers coming out of the woodwork. Nothing excites like a new build. And sure, I've been there. Like many others, I have a safe full of "the perfect rifle" at one time or another. Not making fun of. But, thinking honestly, all you guys have adequate coyote medicine that was last year's concept. I appreciate Dave's practicality in modifying an existing barrel ....as long as it will still do four grand.

But, that might necessitate a change in formula or you will have a flamethrower of unburnt powder trying to make use of six inches of barrel that is no longer there. And then, it might be back to square one; a different and faster burning powder.

Really, is a can the greatest thing since sliced bread? I have not heard anybody say; "meh, I'm not sure it's worth it?" When all is said and done, nobody wants to think they spent $1200/$1500 for no good reason. Understand, I'm not poking fun at Y'all, I'm just a skeptic with poor hearing.

I always had a practical wife, and babies to feed. The question that stopped me cold, every time: why do you need a new "thing"? Just because didn't work with her.

I apologize. Please continue. I will duck and run.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Brent Parker (Member # 4354) on June 17, 2015, 08:03 AM:
 
I currently have 3 centerfire suppressors 1 rimfire and an sbr. 2 of them are Titanium. Rifles are heavy enough and I enjoy the weight savings. Barrel length I run on shorter side my .223 is 12.5" my .223 AI is 18" I am cutting my 6xc to 18" and my 260 is 22". Suppressor are 6", 7.5" sbr suppressor and 9" 30 cal suppressor. The 30 cal suppressor doesn't work very well on the .17 and 20 cal in comparison to my .22 centerfire suppressor. All of mine are direct thread. I like to see at least 1/16 of meat minimum on a barrel over thread diameter and more is better. Its nice if your smith is local when he gets ready to thread the barrel to go down there and fit the threads for your suppressor for the tightest fit possible. I coat my threads with anti-seize before installing and make sure to look down the bore with the suppressor on and tight to verify correct alignment.
I have mentioned it before but in my local area the brush can be tight in areas and I shot more doubles the first year I ran a can than all the years prior. They do help.
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on June 17, 2015, 08:26 AM:
 
Thanks for the input Brent.

Things are getting murkier, sorta. To be expected, as I start to learn, the complexities start to emerge.

First thought was a .30 cal, one size to fit all. Second thought was if I'm going with the .20-250 to start, might be better to use a .22 can. Third thought was nawww, likely be using it on 6mm eventually. I'm still forming the fourth though .

Been reading a bit about "First Round Pop". As a coyote rifle, every shot will be a "first shot". How much is there to this?

Just skimming several articles, far from knowing what I'm talking about yet, but it does sound like some cans suffer FSP worse than others - with that Silencero Omega being talked about as one that suffers the phenomena noticeably.

Have read that the Thunder Beast is a good one for avoiding FRP.

May be much ado about nothing. But if it's not nothing, it's going to factor into my choice. Definitely something I need to dig into further.

No telling how many more times I'll change my mind as I go along here, but I think the new clubhouse leader is the TBAC Ultra 7.

And if running a .20 caliber through it is going to be louder than a 6mm, I might even change over to the 6-284 for the guinea pig. Or not... I want to get back into selling fur, prices have been pretty good the last few years and that Big Six just ain't a fur rifle by any stretch of the imagination.

- DAA
 

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Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on June 17, 2015, 09:59 AM:
 
I've never heard FRP, and I've hunted with 3 others that have suppressors different than mine, and I never heard it from their rifles either. So apparently, some suppressors have it and some don't.
Didn't even know what it was until readin' about it on da net.
I've gone 4 full seasons with my suppressor now. I had never killed a quad. before going suppressed, and now I've killed at least one quad. each season since, with 2 quads last season. In my mind, they tells me that I'm either getting better at calling, better at shooting, better at handling coyotes, finding higher density of coyotes, or a suppressor makes a difference, or one of or all of the above.

[ June 17, 2015, 10:03 AM: Message edited by: TRnCO ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 17, 2015, 10:11 AM:
 
Yes, very good input, Brent. And, Dave. I have a sudden thought about the possibility and desirability of dual purpose cans. Somebody mentioned different muzzle caps for different calibers, I assume the theory is a thirty caliber screwed onto a 6mm, and screwing on a 24 caliber end piece?

But, is the alignment so "iffy" that we would need to check to see that the holes line up? That sounds like poor quality precision machining, to me? Hell, even I can single point a few threads and know how to tap a hole, fairly well.

Reminds me of when I built mine. I took the rig up to the high desert and strapped it to a spare tire. Operated the trigger remotely with some 550 cord and the reason was concern about alignment since the exit diameter was bare minimum. Had nothing to worry about, I used a lock nut to position and vent gasses in various orientations, which was to counter the effects of recoil.

So, what about a happy medium? A universal can that is "good enough" for just about any rifle and cartridge combination? And, what are we striving for? Noise reduction, or the quietest possible? I have seen a few over in Africa, (damned few, actually) but they were more like a foot and a half long, used for culling herd animals.

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: TR, about ten years ago, I killed six on a stand, with a plain vanilla Model 600 Reminton in 6mm, 18.5" barrel. Sometimes the multiples are, (can be) more a factor of terrain, brush and good visibility than just a loud or quiet rifle. FWIW

[ June 17, 2015, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on June 17, 2015, 11:31 AM:
 
If one were to, say, do an internet search for, say, a site called preppersdiscount, one might stumble across a "solvent trap" that might be of some service for those with a threaded tube. Never know when one might find the need for a "solvent trap" made from a flashlight, ya know?

Just sayin'...
 

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Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on June 17, 2015, 03:07 PM:
 
Dang Dave, I never heard of FRP until you brought it up...

This video, if you have 14 minutes t waste, talks about frp and in some cases you can almost hear and defintely see the variance in decibels. Especially the first shot compared to the second.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iL2Q2DIX76o

[ June 17, 2015, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: Lonny ]
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on June 17, 2015, 05:24 PM:
 
Yeah, it's news to me too.

Definitely seems real though. The physics add up and the few videos I've watched of suppressor testing are all showing the first shot a lot louder than subsequent shots. Just watched a very short video testing the Omega and the first shot on every rifle was about twice as loud as the second shots were.

So, I'm pretty well convinced it's quite real. What I'm not at all clear on, is whether there is really much of a difference between makes and models in this regard. "People say" that there is. But I haven't seen any hard data showing one better than another yet.

If there really is a significant difference, it's something I'll definitely take into account. After all, first round is just about all I'm interested in.

Something to chew on for a bit!

- DAA
 

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Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on June 17, 2015, 06:16 PM:
 
Dave do you have any links to the videos you mentioned? I'd like to see them, if it's not too much trouble.

On the link I posted, there was a difference in some suppressors of 3-5 decibels from the first shot to the second. While others were only a couple decibels or less in difference from shot 1 to 2.

One thing I noticed in the vid I posted was some suppressors with virtually almost no frp were still louder on shot one than others that varied several dbs from first to second shots.
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on June 18, 2015, 03:23 AM:
 
Lonny, I just watched the one you linked and like you said, not all of those showed it. And also like you said, some that did, were still quieter than some that didn't.

The really short one I saw was on The Silencer Shop site, give me just a sec and I'll find it...

[url=http://blog.silencershop.com/video/silencerco-omega-test/]Omega test[url].

If I'm reading the tea leaves right - and maybe I'm not, but from some quick reading up on decibels and volume yesterday, I think that in the 130 decibel range, a difference of 4 or 5 decibels is fully twice the volume. In the video you posted the guy says at the end that a difference of 3 is "quite significant".

But, the lesson I think I'm getting here, is I'd rather have one that goes 137 on the first shot then drops to 134, than one that goes 139 on the first shot and stays there!

- DAA
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on June 18, 2015, 03:49 AM:
 
Dave, just so you know cause you didn't ask when you were here. My supressor is a Thunderbeast 30 P1. I use it on everything from .204 up to 7 mag. Seems to work for me. I didn't chop all barrels but the ones I did are no shorter than 22". In my 22x47 lapua I lost about 120 fps by chopping 4 inches, but I was shooting a fairly mild load and with a little powder and primer tweaking I was able to get 100 fps of that back.
 

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Posted by Brent Parker (Member # 4354) on June 18, 2015, 05:50 AM:
 
Dave,
I think if you go with a good manufacture it won't be a problem, Thunder Beast makes great cans and you won't go wrong with one of their products. A buddy of mine just bought an ultra 7 for a 20" 300 Win. mag. Waiting to get it out of jail. He talked with TB quite a bit before purchase and it sounded like the 7" Ultra was the best compromise of length and suppression. I have a SAS Arbitor and have been happy with it. Once you start shooting suppressed its hard to go back the other way. Its uncivilized I tell you!!

Leonard with threading its better to look and verify, with all the expense and long wait I would rather not risk it. So far everything I have had threaded has been spot on. Just cautious.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 18, 2015, 06:07 AM:
 
Interesting video. One thing he says at the end is three decibels is significant. Which just happens to be the difference between FRP and subsequent rounds.

Something I noticed, and I saw more different suppressors than I have seen before, they all look the same and they all have about the same effect. Therefore, since they are not magic, all we are talking about is basically washers as baffles, so longer is more effective.

Maybe what they are saying, in 30 caliber devices, is that 140dB is adequate? Used on an AR, not a big difference? In my opinion.

So, maybe the titanium 8" unit is more better? But, the concept of a can designed for 30 cal. is suitable for smaller diameter cartridges. One thing about the weight savings, over steel is that it's non ferrous. Won't rust. But susceptible to oxidation in the welding process, kinda like trying to weld galvanized. A yellow film which tells you that the weld was bad. But, it's easy to do over. The thing about titanium, (and I have welded this metal before) is that you have to be quick and not get it too hot. (edit) you need to flow your inert gas for cooling process, after the spark)

Anyway, I can't think of a reason to not get titanium, except the price and the price is probably justified? It's lighter, it won't rust, much less malleable, in fact, it's brittle. Anyway, you probably will not dent it?

Good hunting. El Bee

[ June 18, 2015, 06:13 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on June 18, 2015, 08:03 AM:
 
Good to know Cal! Thunderbeast is looking better all the time.

And Brent, yeah, I'm thinking so. It didn't take too long hunting with Scott and Cal to decide I needed one. After I get used to using one, I suspect I'll have a hard time not.

It will be next week before I can get to it, but I need to get on the phone with TBAC. I'd prefer direct thread, but not sure I have enough meat on my #4 barrels to make it work well. They are about .720 at 20". It's going to be close, I think.

- DAA
 

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Posted by Brent Parker (Member # 4354) on June 18, 2015, 09:54 AM:
 
DAA,
worst case you have the gunsmith turn your barrel down to diameter of shoulder slightly behind the threads and put a sleeve that's pressed on for the suppressor to seat up against. Have had this done on two rifles and while its not the prettiest thing in the world
its not too bad if done with some taste. It worked great on the two I did.
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on June 18, 2015, 10:34 AM:
 
You see, you had one of those fancy savages, you could just screw a new barrel in a few minutes and keep the fancy hot rod barrel for another day.. ;-)
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on June 18, 2015, 10:51 AM:
 
I have a couple Savages.

They even have halfway decent triggers!

They don't have decent stocks though. Or scopes appropriate for predator calling.

And although they are both setup with single shot followers now, neither one really fed worth a crap when they were repeaters.

Nothing against Savage. They shoot and shoot well. But, they do have some rough edges, that some of my nicer actions don't, that leave me preferring to use something a little bit nicer for a main squeeze on stand.

Probably one of my Nesika's for this, if not one of them, then a fully blueprinted 700.

- DAA
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on June 18, 2015, 10:55 AM:
 
BTW... Just a Savage note... The first pre-chambered and threaded aftermarket barrels I remember coming out for the Savage were from Sharp Shooter Supply. Fred Moreo, the guy making them (using Douglas blanks, at that time), contacted me and shipped me a couple of his barrels to field test and report back to him on.

One of them was a chromo .22BR that I used the absolute piss out of and is still shooting under .5 MOA consistently.

I really do not have any problem with Savage.

- DAA
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on June 18, 2015, 12:41 PM:
 
All this talk has given me the suppressor bug again.

I couldn't see what a 223 can at sub sonic speeds would offer that my 22 LR can doesn't but twice the bullet weight. Now after hearing reports of more doubles and even quads killed, I'm thinking super sonic ammo at a reduced volume with no real idea where the sound is coming from just might be worth it.

We are currently trying to set up a play date with our dealer. I'd like to demo a few before I buy. I will report what I find out if we can make it happen.

I'm thinking strictly a 223 can if I do it again.
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on June 18, 2015, 02:39 PM:
 
Even though I don't own one (yet), I think a 22LR can firing subsonic is ABSOLUTELY amazing. Everyone should own it..

I shot a coyote last year using a sub-sonic 223 hollow point round. Simply amazing! So quiet, you only hear the trigger. But, just not suitable enough. Kills them like high power airgun and I'm tired of chasing dead coyotes in the desert.

I don't know anyone that bought a suppressor and said its ok or not for me. Everyone that I talk to end up buying more..

I have two right now. No regrets until my wife finds out the $$ I have spent.
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on June 19, 2015, 04:35 AM:
 
Keep us posted Tom.

I'm in Moab right now. Talked to my buddy last night. His is a Silencerco.I had not realized that they are local to me. Their shop is only a few minutes from my work. Will definitely give them a visit.

- DAA
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 19, 2015, 07:15 AM:
 

quote:

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I'm thinking strictly a 223 can if I do it again. (Tom)

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quote:

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Hey, can you explain the above statement and reasoning? Why a can suitable only for a 223? It seems like a more robust muffler, like one designed to contain exhaust gasses from a 308, would surely be enough to do the same for a 223, and you would have versatility, to boot. Is it the size and the expense, or what?

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For me, yes and yes, PLUS I rarely shoot any calibers larger than .22, and the weight savings is another factor.

Yes Kelly, we've all seen multiples killed without a can, BUT I sincerely believe it happens more often, for me, now that I have the can for the simple reason that more often than not the quieter rifle report simply doesn't spook them as badly as a normal centerfire. And that goes for coyotes that are on the scene at the shot and those that haven't gotten to the call yet. I believe this is probably true more so where coyotes are shot at from many sources, such as from the rancher feeding cattle, drive by's, etc. If a coyote has never been exposed to gun shots, it may very well not spook nearly as bad as one that has been there done that, hell it might not spook at all.
I filmed a kid shoot and miss a single coyote about a dozen times and the coyote never ran away. That was with an unsuppressed AR. The kid finally killed the coyote with I think the 13th shot. After words, I wish we would've let the coyote go, and breed, to have more dumb coyotes. I forget which Verminator video the footage is on, but it's the darndest thing ya ever did see. And the shots were all less than 150 yards. After each shot the coyote would flinch or jump a little and look to the sky as if to think it was thunder. Not hardly normal behavior.
IF for no other reason, I still highly suggest getting a suppressor if for no other reason but to make shooting more enjoyable. If you think it might help kill a coyote or two more, then so be it. BUT dang, why not make shooting more enjoyable since it's something we all enjoy so much to start with.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 19, 2015, 09:14 AM:
 
Partial answer: because I can't get past the feeling of being fucked for way more money than seems reasonable and by the bureaucratic regulations involved, and the time element, etc etc.
 

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Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on June 19, 2015, 04:58 PM:
 
^^ I can't find the like button, but yeah, what he said.

My ears are fucked. You young'uns, maybe. Like KJ, I worry about shooting over the top of my dog, but not bad enough to spend that kind of dough.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on June 19, 2015, 09:18 PM:
 
Leonard, I am not ever gonna spend the money for real night vision, a 300 BO and a can to go after pigs. I just ain't that interested in spending that kinda money when I can build a trap for a couple of hundred bucks.

My 243 AI was priced and supposedly sold last week (that's where the suppressor money comes from) the rest of my guns are Kimber Montana's with pencil barrels in 22 and 20 caliber. So that leaves my 223 AR's with barrels heavy enough to support a suppressor and only a lighter one at that. I hate heavy guns and don't see myself building one for a suppressor, hunting anything bigger than coyotes or building a chunk rifle to shoot my steel range as flat as I can.

So less money, less weight and real world uses that I will see.

Another reason I'm thinking suppressor is a couple of weeks ago, a friend came home from a barrel racing to find a coyote trying to kill her dogs. I went out there the next evening and found out she lives on 5 acres with neighbors on 3 sides of her and a 50 acre hay field behind her with a house across that I might add. Anyway as I sat there wondering what the neighbors are going to say when I start shooting so close, I thought a can would've been nice. Turns out I called a coyote to 15 yards, lost him in the tall grass, passed up shots due to houses and equipment behind him then got one fleeting shot at 250 yards unsupported off my knee... I'll take a shotgun when I go after them again.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on June 19, 2015, 09:27 PM:
 
I also had a conversation at dinner tonight with a friend who doesn't hunt but wants to try coyotes. One of his questions was will they come in after you've shot another one? I came up with several instances where shots didn't matter even on deer.

But I still have to wonder if a suppressor will make a difference.
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on June 20, 2015, 03:35 AM:
 
Another quick note among the reasons for suppression. It removes a bunch of recoil. We all know that even some of the lighter calibers recoil. When you get to the 6mm, 25, and 6.5 caliber especially. Sometimes the recoil is enough to lose your sight picture and with coyotes I hate that. I want to see them crumple. Anyway, I'm also convinced that low recoil and low noise makes shooting much easier. Better groups on paper and better hits on coyotes.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 20, 2015, 07:17 AM:
 
That's first mention of recoil reduction? Unless I just missed it?

My recoil reduction for night hunting has always been heavy. My 25'06Ackley doesn't get used all that much, long shots, weighs 21 pounds. But recoil is quite manageable. I have a 200 yard group out in the shop, all 3 rounds touching, very symmetrical. I wouldn't want to lug it around though?

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on June 20, 2015, 03:19 PM:
 
It may be the first mention, but they do work like a muzzle break. Probably better than most breaks, without the added noise.
 

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Posted by Brent Parker (Member # 4354) on June 20, 2015, 03:55 PM:
 
Kelly,
I noticed in the open desert were there is nothing for the shot noise to bounce off of it seems pretty quiet. I think the sound of the shot is changed/distorted enough that the coyotes dont really recognise it. The first stand I spent with a suppressor I killed a double. They came in as singles, the first one I shot at 50 yards and it was staring at the dog, the second one was 150 to 175 yards away and coming when I shot the first one. It stopped and looked around and then came on in As it kept coming. I killed it at roughly 100 yards.I wouldn't consider that normal behavior in my area. The thing that really surprised me was my dog knows when the shot goes off there should be something to chew on, those first couple she didn't even look. She didn't recognize that sound as a shot. It was enough to convince me right there.
I have mentioned it before but I shot more doubles the first year with a suppressor than I did the previous 8 yrs. I don't believe my stand selection or my calling style changed that much and our population was at the bottom of the cycle.
It helps with your hearing sure but my hearing is poor already, but I do know your DOGS will approve. That was the one thing I saw with Lilly and Mickey both tended to bring coyote back and stand just off to the side of you out front. I saw both of them shake their heads after a shot more than once. I never saw it again after going to a suppressor.
Brent
 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on June 22, 2015, 06:29 AM:
 
I've took the breaks off a couple of rifles and screwed a can on, the recoil reduction seems 20% better than the breaks. A big plus for sure.
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on June 23, 2015, 07:06 AM:
 
Good grief, you guys aren't helping. Brent keeps getting on my ass to get a can. I keep resisting, but I think I am over the edge now.

Fred, funny thing is Brent keeps telling me to cut my 6x45 barrel down to about 18" and screw on a can for coyotes. Been using the 55 NBT's but am going to try the 58 Hornady VMAX's. Both shoot very very well. I generally don't shoot past a couple hundred yards anyway. 300+ is very rare for me. I could probably find a 22-250AI or my 223 AI version to work fine too.

[ June 23, 2015, 07:08 AM: Message edited by: DanS ]
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on June 23, 2015, 07:35 AM:
 
I don't shoot vmax's out of a can.. Vendors typically state that if you shoot anything besides FMJ's it voids warranty.

Well, that doesn't cut it for coyotes.. I've tried to find data on which bullets are OK and which ones to stay away from.

The last thing you want to do is spend almost $1500 bucks and have a bullet fragment or nick inside the can..

So, I've been using high quality hollow points (sierra for me) and no issues using the GEMTEK at peak velocities.

Not sure I have enough balls to use a fragment bullet like a Vmax..
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 23, 2015, 09:37 AM:
 
Then you might want to try the Nosler 55 gr. Ballistic Tip.Everyone I talk to says they are of a beefier construction, although I'm not sure if that means empirically, (terminally) or the bullet actually has a heavier jacket?

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on June 23, 2015, 11:37 AM:
 
Just thinking out loud here; but if one just can't live with a rifle that's six inches longer, and also can't live with cutting off six inches of barrel... why not split the difference?

Can you go with a barrel that's three inches shorter and a rifle that's three inches longer?

Leonard,

Thanks for talkin' me down, I got all caught up in it and dang near considered a suppressed .22Hornet for the semi-urban farmland hunting environment back east.

Krusty
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on June 24, 2015, 03:05 AM:
 
Dan, if my AO were 'can friendly', I'da had one for years & would prolly still own that 16" 6x45 I had.
Funny thing is, our night hunting regs are fairly tolerant (as long as you hunt on foot). It'd sure be nice to have a suppressed centerfire for calling some farms after dark without waking the farmer's wife up with a "BOOM!" @ 2am...

Just sayin', if its legal, GET ONE!!!
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 24, 2015, 04:37 AM:
 
"It's just Heat Lightning, go back to sleep!"

On second thought, do they know what heat lightning is, in Nu Yawk?
So far, their Keystone cops can't seem to find a couple escapees?
I hear they are providing peanut butter traps for all those cabins in the woods?

Imagine, borrowing all those power tools in the middle of the night and waking up nobody? Sounds like the whole friggin' town works at the jail?

Good hunting. El Bee

(just kidding, Fred. You are our favorite Nu Yawker. Next to Cuomo.)

[ June 24, 2015, 04:38 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Brent Parker (Member # 4354) on June 24, 2015, 05:33 AM:
 
DanS,
Since I am such a good friend, send that 6x45 to me I'll get it cut for you and shoot a few more coyotes with it till you get your can! That way all load work and testing will be done for you!! I think that 6x45 with a 16-18" barrel and a can would make a dandy little calling rifle and pretty quiet as well. AH the trouble I'll go thru for you buddy..
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on June 24, 2015, 06:34 AM:
 
Leonard, was enjoying a BBQ'ed tequila/lime mako steak to a symphony of heat lightning, just last evening! Got some small hail to the north of us, too...

I haven't been following that prison break fiasco real closely. Just enough to form the opinion that the blind might be leading the deaf, at taxpayer expense!!!
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on June 24, 2015, 07:17 AM:
 
Brent, Hard to turn down an offer like that.

[ June 24, 2015, 07:18 AM: Message edited by: DanS ]
 

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Posted by Aaron Rhoades (Member # 4234) on August 06, 2015, 08:12 PM:
 
My tax stamp came in today. Check was cashed 3-28, approved 6-17 and came in the mail today at my dealer. I picked it up and ran about 6 rounds through it with the .17-.204, anyone with a similar caliber knows that they are a snappy round, obviously not a hard recoil but snappy and loud. Anyway, the suppressor tamed that right down, recoil is significantly reduced, gun stays on target, can shoot without hearing protection, whats not to love? Also my brother tried it on his ruger 22 handgun, was incredibly quiet. I know its not the best thing to do to run a centerfire suppressor on a 22 but he only shot it 3 times to see what it would do. Its awesome!
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on August 08, 2015, 05:04 AM:
 
Love to hear it Aaron!

I'm onboard 100% with the concept. Have my trust all done and ready. But, no money in the play toy account right now.

Looking like I probably won't be able to get started on mine until after this winter. It's a "when" not an "if" though. I'm getting one! Heck, haven't even got the first one and already, honestly, thinking I want at least two, maybe three of them...

- DAA
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on August 08, 2015, 11:07 AM:
 
After december, the trust may be a non issue. BATFE told me that it looks like a deal will be struck to make all parties on the trust subject to the background checks.....making it a bigger hassle to have a trust. this is supposedly being traded off for a waiting period of no more than 10-15 days from local LE.....in other words, a local sheriff will not be able to sit on an app as a passive form of denial.
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on August 08, 2015, 11:41 AM:
 
Interesting...

Would it possibly be advantageous then, to get a move-on, before the deal takes place? Or, as a transaction in progress, do you think I'm likely to end up being governed by it anyway?

Might be a moot point. Really not likely I can fund the project before Dec. anyway.

I didn't look into the local LE deal too closely. Every single person I talked to locally, had done the trust route. Couldn't find anyone I know around here that had done it the other way to even get a feel for the process.

Just wondering, out loud, if it needs to be the Sheriff, a busy man and understandably going to be hard to make an appointment with, or local chief of police? I live in a tiny municipality. Only three full time police, last time I heard, but we do have a chief. I know the mayor, next door neighbor is a councilman, etc. - getting a sit down with my local CoP should be pretty darn easy. Compared to the county sheriff.

- DAA
 

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Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on August 10, 2015, 08:51 AM:
 
Pretty sure it has to be the county sheriff Dave. And you won't need to make an appointment with him, in person. Just go in and have finger prints done and leave the paper work for the sheriff to look over and do the back ground check. Then he can call you once he signs, to go in and pick up the papers.
Took my sheriff all of a day, after I got my fingers prints done, to call me. BUT, my county sheriff isn't too busy.
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on August 11, 2015, 10:25 AM:
 
Dave, TR is correct, it does have to be the sheriff of your county. he is the chief law enforcement officer(CLEO).
The trusts have a few advantages. One, they allow nfa items to be held by the trust(it is considered a separate entity) in case something happened to trustee(you). In other words, atf can not come and confiscate your assets in the event of your passing. Individuals you name in your trust, can possess the items and do as you have previously directed....ie sell, keep, whatever. This is a great idea if one has alot of finances tied up in items such as full autos and sbr's as well as suppressors. If this is the case, I would want these assets to remain in the hands of my heirs, and not the gov't. This brings me to number two...Trusts have been used to avoid the finger printing, photographing phase of applying for a tax stamp by individuals. In areas like here or in your area, it is probably not an issue with your CLEO, but in some areas, CLEO's have denied these requests by simply not acting on them.

So, if they change the rules requiring everyone on the trust to be fingerprinted and photographed, it makes the trust a moot point unless you have an inventory of items of large cash value.....or you just don't want some asshole from the .gov coming and collecting your stuff.

Google 41P. There is tons of info about this.

Maintain
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on August 24, 2015, 09:49 PM:
 
Leonard; I found the "can" that you can get your feet wet, without breaking the bank.
http://damn.com/oilfilter/?utm_source=nym&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=oilfilternym&utm_rcreplace_3430=5178
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 25, 2015, 05:22 AM:
 
Perfect, Vic.

You are right about one thing. The cost of suppression is a major irritant for this kid. The $200 bucks is highway robbery all by itself, and $1200 for a can is overcharge for something that looks like about $120 worth?

But, who knows? I might cave?

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Aaron Rhoades (Member # 4234) on August 25, 2015, 11:39 AM:
 
Can you even own them down there Leonard?
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 25, 2015, 02:17 PM:
 
I believe the unofficial answer is NO? I haven't looked into it enough to know, for sure.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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