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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on November 19, 2023, 12:33 PM:
I got laid off early this year and it was so nice out yet and deer hunting just got over. Nephews calls up says let's go find some coyotes. I went out before dark and checked zero on thermal then decided I want to try using a 204 ruger I bought used so put the thermal on it and sited it in and recorded the site numbers so now I can just remove the thermal back and forth between two rifles I have for night calling. The 204 shoots dam nice so happy about that but have to remember to pull bolt all the way back when chambering another round or the fucker jams. ![[Mad]](mad.gif)
At 8:00 nephew shows up and off we go, I brought along my Lucky duck and also my WT caller.
First stand we set up just 1/4 mile from farm where I keep my dogs and parked the pickup behind some round bales to hide it, just like O'Neil opps. LOL
We started the stand with the Lucky duck caller and had a pair on way in in 15 minutes useing cottontail and then female howls. On way in coyotes split on us with one trying to get down wind and other coming in on a string.
We needed the second coyote to come about 100 more yards then game on but other coyote was about to reach my scent cone so we had to try for the first. Nephew took the shot and hit ground low and I followed up with a shot just hitting ground underneath it, close but no cigar and then just let them trott off. there be another day.
Next stand we set up behind a grove on a vacant farm calling down to a creek with small wood lot. Pair of coyotes lit up and then was on their way in but they stayed wide of our position and worked to the downwind and being out of range. They start to get close to scent cone, so I told nephew pick one out and take the shot.
He shoots and is low again, so I figured they was out a little farther than I like so I held a little over the top of the coyote he shot at and hit dam ground just over the top of it, dam! They ran off a way but then stopped and looked back at us. Nephew says let's try to call them back and I said no, they young stupid coyotes so let's just leave them be and come back at later date rather than screw around with them.
I had two jams on the ruger after first shot and need to learn to pull bolt back all the way and hard to eject dam shell.
Both E-callers did there job but the Lucky duck still has the dam faded sound to it which I hate but it dont seem to bother coyotes a whole lot. I did find myself looking at dam remote on Lucky duck too much trying to find or switch sounds and scrolling around. The library system or format sucks and you have to remember the sounds by there goofy names in order to find what you want to try next. Say you want a lone howl or female invite, first you have to find coyote vocals on remote then you have to find or figure out what category they are listed in, sucks...
The WT has nothing to look at on the remote as its set up with button pads/raised buttons. I can feel each button and I just push the number I want, 40 for female invite, six for rabbit distress, 1 for vole mouse. It's that simple. I have a few more things to try with lucky duck see if I can make it work a little better or simpler. The caller itself is dam nice, the remote is ok but sound list format sucks as well as that dam fading in and out. Has anyone heard about Burham Bro.s? I hear they coming out with a nice E-caller and some super sounds.
Oh I forgot my Thor-4 thermal worked perfect and not one complaint and Nephews AGM rattler is working well but its not as good as the Thor-4 due to less power but that's to be expected. You know saying pay less get less. I love watching a coyote come in at night through a thermal. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on November 19, 2023, 03:20 PM:
Hey Tim
New toy for you to get ................... 12.7 x 11HL made by modifying a 14.5 x 114mm shell.
Just saw on my homepage that a Ukrainian sniper with a Horizon's Lord rifle scored a hit at 2.36 miles using that round. No mention of pelt damage to the Russian.
Hell of a shot !!!!
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on November 19, 2023, 05:43 PM:
I think it took guys head off clean, very little blood.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 20, 2023, 11:44 AM:
Where does one read these details?
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on November 21, 2023, 04:24 PM:
Last year my WT finally gave out and most parts for that model have dried up. I bought the lucky duck as a replacement and also have a mighty atom but the atom just dont have the volume or sound I like and so I had a little extra jingle in my pocket and made a call to Pat at WT and placed my order for the mighty atom Launt. Yes with Bill gone WT is still around and keeping busy at times filling orders. They made some basic changes to their E-callers but nothing as far as looks go and no bells and whistles just a great simple caller with the best sounds in the industry. When I started to pick out sounds, I noticed they added about a dozen new coyote vocals, so I ordered all of them which is around 54 total. Once I get the WT i will send Lucky duck back and have them give it a look over and see what gives or if its just me or the way they recorded the sounds, not sure. I still like the lucky duck so it has a dam good chance of staying here for life, just might not see as much action for time being. My Nephew is a fox pro freak, but he pointed out the other day that the WT and the sounds sounded so much better over the duck so it's just not me and he owns neither of them so no taking sides there. Thats way it should be a true honest opinion. As Randy Anderson would say you need to speak their langue and thats what a WT does, always has. But hey there is always room for one more good caller. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on November 21, 2023, 06:41 PM:
I want to take a couple of FoxPros and set them out about 20 yards apart facing each other, playing the same sound.......... just to see the coyote's reaction when it comes in between them.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on November 22, 2023, 09:18 AM:
that would-be cool to see. I'd like to place two boxes of ammo out on sidewalk in front of leonards house, box to left 223 and box to right 10 feet away some sort of pistol ammo.
[ November 22, 2023, 09:23 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on November 22, 2023, 10:30 AM:
I don't think that El Bee speaks .223
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 22, 2023, 10:32 PM:
I already told you folks. I bought my Colt AR used, a long time ago. A friend gave me a 5 gallon bucket of military range brass. I sorted them and loaded some match ammo that my 220Swift didn't like and went hunting. Every coyote I shot needed at least 2 more and some, 3 more to make them stop fussing.
Now, I will admit that part of the problem was in mounting the scope on the carry handle; this is an old school A1 model without forward assist. But, I'm more than halfway convinced that the forward assist is pretty much useless anyway. Because I never had a problem with cartridges not chambering all the way, so I suspect that other people never have to use that button either?
That's it. It does not suit my style of coyote hunting or my hunting areas. I thought it would be good for multiples but I spent too much time re shooting coyote #1 and letting coyote #2 get away.
I put it away for the race riots, if they ever get to my neighborhood. I think my handloads will be fearsome on rioters. I hope they still perform, they are gathering moss, nowadays?
Good hunting. El Bee
edit PS, I milled the carry handle and mounted a picatinni base, which solves the problem I had with scopes mounted on the handle. That being, you have to choose whether you want a 50 yard zero or a 100 yard zero because your bullets are way off no matter how you set it up. The scope is way too far above the bore for aaccuracy at 50 and 100 yard ranges, can't have both.
edit: and yes, there is a message hidden in my stroll down Memory Lane. 223 doesn't kill coyotes cleanly
[ November 22, 2023, 10:42 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on November 23, 2023, 10:28 AM:
So you saying you'd grab the pistol ammo over the 223 ammo? What about some of your friends you could grab the 223 ammo for? ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 24, 2023, 12:45 PM:
I guess I'm saying, first, that I am all stocked up on 223 ammo. If someone is giving it away, and I have to choose rifle/223, or any pistol....well, that would depend on the chambering? If it happens to be some obscure cartridge, like 41Remington Magnum, which hardly nobody has a use for, then I'd take more 223Rem than I need, as a bartering tool or to trade for something useful. Another thing I don't need is 380Auto. I can use 32Auto though, especially anything except 71 grain, preferably 60 grain. (I'll wait for Christmas, if I have to)
Actually, I'll take any 45ACP that someone wants to get rid of. Yes, I handload for that caliber, but it is a pain in the ass diging cases out of the weeds. This is what makes 357 so cool, they never hit the ground, dented or muddy.
any questions? You know where to find me.
Good hunting. El Bee
I remember several years ago, a guy I worked with offered me some free ammo he found in the trash, in the ally behind his house. The problem was, it was all Weatherby ammo, factory stuff for 300Weatherby and 378Weatherby, and another even less common although I don't remember for sure, may have been 270Weatherby Mag? IDK?
But the point is, and I have thought about it to some extent and what I came up with is that some bug Game hunter must have died and the little woman set out several thousand dollars worth of brand new factory ammunition in the trash because she either couldn't be bothered or had no idea of the value? I kept one round from each caliber just for my cartridge collection. Whatever happened to the rest, I never knew, but this is what will happen to all of our treasure, people! Nobody gives a shit and most likely, a good percentage of really valuable shit will be thrown in the trash. Kind of depressing, ain't it? Or, start putting labels on some of your shit so somebody sorting through your valuables will have an idea what they are looking at. And maybe get value for it or pass it to someone that can use it.
Same goes for everybody in the Peanut Gallery. If you have something nice, write out a label with my name and address and have your widow send it to me!
Good hunting. El Bee
[ November 24, 2023, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 24, 2023, 01:18 PM:
This reminds me of a PET PEEVE of mine.It is when some total asshole takes a complete novice out in the country or amybe to an informal range and wants to introduce them to firearms.
They make sure to film it while they give the newbie the biggest, most powerful firearm that they own and stand around while the meek and innocent one touchs one off; and the fucking gun goes flying!
WHY? because they are new and nervous and have a very soft hold on the gun, thinking that might be the best way to deal with it, since they have zero concept of recoil?
What's needed is a FIRM GRIP ON THE RIFLE OR PISTOL. but the asshole introducing them to guns is being a complete asshole and will get a kick out of watching the gun fly out of the hands of the clueless "Victim".
I bet everybody has seen videos of this and chances are the novice shooter will never even touch a firearm from that point forward, just because some PRICK wanted to get a laugh!
I know a woman I have known since gradeschool and she married a real creep that gave her the biggest, baddest handgun he owned, and of course, she didn't know what it was, but it frightened her so much that she is a firearms hater and nothing will ever change her mind thanks to that asshole, #3 husband. I can't tell you how disgusted I am with people that do this! They deserve to be beaten for the harm they cause to the innocent. I know they want to impress someone with the fact that they are so MACHO that they can handle this recoil, etc. but I take a very different and dim view of the bastards that continue to pull this sick prank!
You all have seen it and know what I am talking about. It has to STOP!
End of Rant!
Good hunting. El Bee
[ November 24, 2023, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on November 24, 2023, 02:00 PM:
#1 ...... My wife will probably sell all of my stuff for what I told her that I paid for it.
#2 ..... Excellent rant !!!!
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 24, 2023, 02:25 PM:
Yes! That is a good one! Telling the wife what you paid for your shit is a major lie and we all do it!
So, of course that's what they sell it for. I got my table saw from a widow for a hundred bucks, nowhere near what it was worth. Other than that, it's whatever the market will bear.
The thing is, women have no concept of what our toys cost, and/or is worth. What else do they have to go by?
Good hunting. El Bee
[ November 24, 2023, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 03, 2023, 11:50 AM:
Well think we got issue figured out with lucky duck, good chance its the sound card so Rick sent a new one out and should have it in few days. fingers crossed.
In mean time I ordered a new WT atom Launt and Pat was a hoot to work with. My WT 2030 was so old and you can't get parts for it any longer, so it was time to retire it. The new WT is basically same as the 2030 with a few changes. No antennas sticking out of remote or caller and remote has longer range as well. The sounds coming out of the Toa speaker are loud and clear like always. F.P don't use a Toa speaker of this size so how can they claim theirs is louder. LOL
Pat loaded me up on all the sounds I needed for my area plus she gave me a new sound most people don't have and going to give it a workout.
I been out two nights so far with 6 coyotes on first night and seven for last night and no issues with the Caller, the way it should be.
I had a coyote come out of a vacant grove other night and then spotted a second coming out of a driveway pipe and joining up with first. Can see why calling can be tuff in daytime with coyotes holed up in a pipe. On another stand I had a red fox come in and sit a bark at me, then a pair of coyotes came out of the long grass and started to chase dam fox around the field. Fox made its way to a farm site and went into the grove and then the coyotes gave up on the chase as they knew better. LOL It's a whole new world out there with a thermal any critter that puts off heat going to be spotted, like coyotes, fox, deer, turkeys, pheasants and even a field mouse. You look into a plowed field full of mice it's just like looking at the stars and can see our coyotes have plenty to eat.
There also seems to be good crop of coyotes this year and will be another week before I can release the dogs after them and they are ready.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 03, 2023, 08:10 PM:
I can't help thinking that all state Game and Fish will be worried to death that "thermals" will seriously increase deer poaching. Anybody out riding around after dark will be followed and monitored and they had better not spit on the sidewalk!
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 03, 2023, 11:17 PM:
Not so much game and fish but just one asshole in the group don't like it. CO's here pretty good about it no issues. County deputy's another story as well they not up to speed on game laws but so far, they are doing fine job. LOL
Called in a triple tonight with the Lucky duck, still not fixed but has few sounds I can get away with for now and it did fine job.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 05, 2023, 01:09 PM:
Got the new SD card today and installed it. Yep that was the problem. LOL Good customer service and my Thanks to Rick.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 13, 2023, 04:34 PM:
I Got my new 22-250 ackly barrel ordered, I went with a Brunx, never used that brand before so we see how it works out. Gunsmith figured I'd have my gun back after Christmas sometime. Got a bunch of 52 gr. A-max and a other 52 gr. from Hornady but dont recall name right off hand but its just a new name for the 52 A-max. (sales and marketing) So I'm all set for next adventure.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 13, 2023, 04:39 PM:
Plan to go out tonight and get my new scope sighted in ( Bolt TL35 V2 infiRay) on the 22-250 Bargara and grab the 204 as well and try get little coyote shooting in. LOL
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 14, 2023, 09:00 AM:
Tim, something to think about. All these LONG RANGE ASSHOLES with their Creedmore's, and all dialed in on fucking GONGS-1,000 yards is just for starters.
Anyway, I will give them one caveat. When you go with heavy, that means LONG, and that means TWIST RATE.
So, you mention 52 grain bullets. For some reason, the selection seems to go from 55 to 68 and then what? I don't know and haven't looked, but you might want to consider what's available and what twist rate before you order a barrel. The downside, and there's always a downside is barrel life with a 7 1/2" twist rate.
I'm just saying that heavier bullets aren't as fast but they hold a little better in the wind and have some authority out there in Fairyland beyond 300 yards. Think about it.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 14, 2023, 11:06 AM:
You right about heavier bullets Leonard but there is a downside to them as well. They drop like a rock compared to lighter bullets which means if you zero at 200 it can be a miss at 300-350 or what have you.
The 52 gr. Hornady's are similar to a VLD bullet just tad shorter and a little longer jacket compared to a 52 gr. Sierra, and I have plenty of them around as well as other light to med. weight bullets. The 52 gr. will shoot faster and flatter and that's what I want. My nephew bought a 6.5 creed and couldn't get any lighter bullets for it as he didn't want to shoot the 100 gr., Way too much drop for night cartridge. So then he goes and buys a 224 Valkrie like I have cept. he has 6.5 twist and I have a 7 twist.
He put his back in cabinet and now shooting his 22-250 as it cost us some coyotes.
Both my thermals come with range finder and bullet drop calculator just have not gotten around to getting that dialed in yet and if I like it then I'll put one on my 224 Valkrie and shoot some 70-85 gr. bullets. Biggest issue is judging range at night, 200 yard coyote looks like its at 300 or 400 yards. LOL
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 21, 2023, 01:33 PM:
One of the local forums I belong to had a little chat about night calling here in Mn. and varies conditions that some believe it affects calling or coyote behavior. You know things like full moon, no moon, barometric pressure, time of night and Temp's and whatever else one can think of. Only thing I check or worry about is temp.as you can only sit for so long when its colder out and I also look at wind speed, over 10 mph I usually just stay home. I've been out before midnight and after midnight, it seems to be all good. Humidity can be a problem if its over 80% as it affects the thermal as to how far you can I.D. a coyote. I been getting out most nights and don't really see any factors that affect coyote movement and calling one in, just have to be where they are.
Now what got interesting last night was I was calling a spot close to town and first time there had a pair come in and my nephew missed his coyote and since he shot twice it made it a little harder to get them to come after that as I been there 2-3 times after.
So last night I'm back out there set up on backside of a old abandon grove with a creek to the south that runs east to west and section is two miles long, coyotes like big sections.
When I got my New WT this year Pat gave me a sound that they don't even have on the sound list, so I decided to try it see what happens wasn't sure it works at all but was something different.
I selected the sound and turn caller on and set sound to full volume and waited for about 3 minutes. I spotted a pair coming up from creek bottom and stayed on them as they approached.
Lead coyote was close enough for a shot so I barked to stop it and then dam thing hit a low spot and I could only see its ears and then into the grove it went. I got my hand squeaker out and used it a few times and kept scanning, couldn't find it at first then I did see it finally on its way back out of the grove. Decided to try for the second so turned caller back on and this is when things got hairy. First coyote stopped out in field and howled and barked and the second stopped its approach and sat there. Then I spotted two more coyotes coming up from the same creek and they slowed down their approach but would not leave the creek but was interested in the sound I was using, and they just stayed down there on edge of cover. First coyote is yapping again so I switched to another coyote vocal and then the field lit up back to south and behind me. Believe I had six coyotes, with possible 7th circled around me! That first coyote kind of messed things up for me so I just let it get quiet and then packed up and got out of there. another night another time and make sure I bring another shooter along. AS for the new sound I like how all the coyotes come into it and how they approached or acted was pretty cool. The sound also has a pause built in, so you just let it play continues and it just keeps sucking them in.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 21, 2023, 03:06 PM:
whats this mystery sound/
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 21, 2023, 07:35 PM:
Lets wait for more days then I'll let you in on it.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 22, 2023, 03:37 AM:
Went out last night, humidity little high and also got a little rain here in Dec., how about that. Went looking for new areas to call and got lucky found a pair of coyotes. The special sound brought them in to about 300 yards and I then closed the deal with some vole mouse, yummy. Made few more stands and found what looked like 20-25 coon out in a field next to vacant grove. Maybe put one of thermals on my 22 Mag. and thin a few out some time. Oh I'm tired so off to bed.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 22, 2023, 08:29 AM:
Oh Wow! Gonna be like a Gender Reveal? That's sooo trendy, these days!
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 22, 2023, 10:14 AM:
It was a dark & stormy night ...... Suddenly a (suppressed) shot rang out.
Thermal scope ..........check.
Rangefinder ....... check.
Bullet drop calculator ...... check
Wiz-bang / cartridge combo .... check.
Mystery sound @ 300 yards ....... check.
Good lord people, where does this end ????? They're just coyotes. I can call them in to <300 yards and all I need is my Trusty Krusty.
By Ullr's beard, we're taking this waaaay to seriously.
Spoiler Alert; The 'secret sound' is the Song Of The Blue Whales.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 22, 2023, 10:39 AM:
LOL Leonard.
You were close on guessing, LOL The sound is a Women screaming, studio grade. I was listening to some music on comp. this morning. Some songs were live recorded at a concert and could find same song recorded in a studio. Now if you compare sounds from other E-caller companies I would put them in the live recording group, sound ok but have a lot of background noise and just not as good as a studio recorded song and singer may have not put as much effort in it.
WT sounds are all studio grade, no one even comes close that I know of. Just an example: Lucky duck does a recording of a live coyote howling, sure it's a actual coyote but has too much junk mixed in and just don't sound right. Most of the junk is some high pitch squeaks, moans or low squeaks or what have you. That crap isn't needed as a coyote off in distance not going to hear it anyway so why even have or use it? Just edited it out. WT runs sounds also through a spectrograph I believe it's called and then edits the crap that don't qualify, thus ending up with good clean howl that can be played at full volume on big caller and most of the sound gets way out there. Thats what brings coyotes in to start and if you are dealing with some pressured coyotes the sound shines there as well. Sure, crappy sounds work at times but there are many times it just doesn't get job done. Nephew is finding that out with his F-P and if he wants to get in the game, he needs better sounds that F-P sells at a premium of course from MFK boyz. Those sounds should of come standard with caller to start with, piss poor marketing.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 22, 2023, 10:47 AM:
quote:
Good lord people, where does this end ????? They're just coyotes. I can call them in to <300 yards and all I need is my Trusty Krusty.
By Ullr's beard, we're taking this waaaay to seriously.
Koko this isn't AZ or Kansas or S.D., whole another ballgame here. Best I can describe it is go look at a smart, shy, timid dog. Or better yet go call in some of your pressured coyotes that been called in, shot at or just scared shitless from getting too close to the guy calling. It's a different game here and you either play or you don't get, really simple. Not sure you have enough wide-open spaces for use of a thermal, maybe better off with out. You got way more coyotes than here so any old caller will work, one of them going to be close enough to hear it and want to come in. But now ask yourself there are days you go calling and see nothing, why is that? Cover to thick so can't spot them in time, not using right caller or sounds, not where they are to start with?
Yeah, I got some pretty good tools and also have had a pretty good track record for calling them in where other guys here are still struggling.
Edit to add: Day time stands? Good luck here, as your arrows would get wood rot before you called a daytime coyote in.
[ December 22, 2023, 10:58 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 22, 2023, 11:10 AM:
I remember the campouts I attended, many guys were there to hunt with others and see how they do it and compare it to their style of calling. Sit and talk with Leonard, Steve Craig, Major, professor and Gerry B. and pick their brains so they could up their game calling critters. I'm pretty much past that but still learn from coyotes as they best teacher for my area. To up my game special tools are needed and no different than a ADC trapper and special tools he uses as well. It's to up their game and put more coyotes up in front and down into the dirt. Leonard used special lights for at night and misting to up his game, it's no different here also.
Go to bar to play a friendly game of pool and you get a few guys want to play for quarters or big money and then they bring out the fancy pool stick, no different.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 22, 2023, 04:15 PM:
I remember once in Colorado, hunting Mule Deer. I had developed a shrill sound, like nothing you ever heard, but it called in coyotes, not to the truck, but close enough to see my yellow Nissan, and watched us prowl right at timberline.
I had to take the front brake pad apart to get at this damned little pinecone bud and that cured it, no more coyotes watched us chug along through 8-10 inches of damp snow. I never again was so lucky, just a real pure shriek reminded of a prowling Shrike! Shoulda been there, I'm not kidding!
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 22, 2023, 05:58 PM:
That Blue Whale Song is a sound that I do want to get around to trying. It should freak out any hikers that hear it if nothing else.
have a tape of a baby crying that has called in a few coyotes.
Squealing brake ??? I wonder if microphone feedback could work ????
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 22, 2023, 07:10 PM:
If Bill M. could have recorded a blue whale sound, he would make it work, that's how he spent his life recording animals and putting sound at studio grade and getting the right harmonics out of it.
Squeaky brakes? I think Bills porcupine, prairie dog and few other sounds come pretty close to it. The man was way ahead of his time and the guy to thank for all the other e-call makers being here.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 22, 2024, 11:52 AM:
My 22-250 ackley is now home with a brand-new Brux barrel. Off to the range I go. LOL
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 22, 2024, 01:04 PM:
trip to range good but have to toss some primers that are bad. Going to mount the thermal yet today.
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 22, 2024, 05:41 PM:
I Have owned the Foxpro CS-24c, the WT Mighty Atom, and the Lucky Duck Roughneck. In my opinion Lucky Duck has the best Coyote Vocals.
Good Hunting Chad
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 22, 2024, 06:26 PM:
I have both lucky duck and WT Laut. Duck lacks volume and library a mess but still good caller. My Wt is about the same as the 2030 model, very loud which creates a terr. or aggressive response when coyote vocals are used. Nothing close to that yet. I still have my Atom its mostly set up for wolf, bigcats and southern pred. and not the same as the 2030 in performance. F-P I can't say anything about them, I never owned one cept for a few minutes then gave it to a kid at calling contests, I had no use for it and don't want one, just walk on by and smile is all. Wt has a new sound even snowcamen or what ever his name is don't have it, been doing a heck of a job. Pat doing a good job of filling Bills shoes. Funny thing Leonard and others hate it when a area is flooded with F-P callers, I like it cause they leave so many coyotes behind still alive, no fear of going into a area after they have called it. WT has a new DVD out on calling coyotes and use of vocals, I recommend it for everyone that's a die hard caller. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
[ January 22, 2024, 06:30 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 22, 2024, 07:52 PM:
Yeah you’re probably right about the volume but as far as Coyote Vocals go Lucky Ducks got WT beat. Both Quality and Quantity
Good Hunting Chad
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 23, 2024, 01:09 PM:
You must of got studio grade sounds with lucky duck, I didn't . LOL Believe what you like...
On another note got out with re barreled ackley, and killed its first coyote, nice big male not sure on weight and don't care.
I had to call a tight area along a creek with overgrown pasture running through it, plenty of thick cover and tuff get coyotes to come out or even see them in a thermal. Called this spot many time just couldn't get any shots or get winded from coyotes on other side of road in same crap. Be good spot to try misting but no luck getting supplies for that.
At end of creek by road was a small hill on east side of the creek and this is where I would hide my truck as its mostly flat open ground once you get away from drainage.
I drove in parked my truck and then placed my WT caller on the roof facing north and then walked to the road and then walked west and when I got halfway to the bridge I set my Lucky duck caller on shoulder of the road facing north as well.
I walked west then to the bridge and set up inside right away just west of bridge. 2 minutes of vocals I had them lit up and coming from the north as well as across road from the south in the drainage. Just like before they wouldn't peak out of the grass, just sit around and bark and howl.
I started with that new WT sound and then backed it up with another vocal from the lucky duck, sounded like a party going on. Heads started popping up and few coyotes on hind legs bouncing around in grass trying to get a look, they didn't like what was going on. Finally, a big male comes out in open about 150 yards out and the ackley sends a little greeting gift its way. Things got quite so I just sat and waited a little bit then went back to playing both callers off and on, duplex calling. Coyotes had no idea of where I was and soon, they were back and just hiding close by kept on with barking and howling, they were pissed, and they didn't want to leave so I just kept working them.
I did a reversal in vocals and gave them something they could handle and soon I had a coyote on southside of road stick its head up so now I knew where it was and got it to come closer.
after some time, I had it on topside of a cutbank standing on a snow drift and sent a little medicine its way. It looked like something hit the coyote in the head and kicked it in the ass at same time and down the bank it goes and falls to the ice.
By the way this is same area or spot I took my very first daytime coyote years ago. 3 stands made last night 11 coyotes called in which is something that never happen years back under a full moon without a thermal.
Been having a Redfox come into town and sitting on my deck and also a pair of coyotes come up into the yard to visit the dogs out at the kennel, I know they want the dogs to come out and play few games. LOL
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 23, 2024, 01:15 PM:
I have 53 coyote vocals on WT, what does lucky duck have????? How many are natural and not some recording of a coyote making noise with cattle prod up its ass?
[ January 23, 2024, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 23, 2024, 01:50 PM:
I think mine has about the same number of Coyote Vocals as yours I think it is between 50-55 not sure. Yes I ordered some extra Vocal too. But Tim this isn’t my first rodeo. I’ve had and used all three callers and I’m not pulling this stuff out of my ass. Just what I’ve observed. That being said my brother still runs a foxpro and those new MFK sounds are pretty damn good.
Good Hunting Chad
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 23, 2024, 03:20 PM:
I listen to WT all the sounds sound fine and clear, I listen to lucky duck the quality not there, they need better record equipment or more time in sound studio. And many of their vocals mean same thing just another coyote howling which can be good for change up but same. Here the key to coyotes is aggression to create terr. response if calling to more than one coyote. As stand progresses a coyote will tell or show you what it can handle then you need to decide if you need to tone it back to something they think they can handle or just keep pushing them. In area rich with coyotes all you need is few vocals and good prey sounds till you hit a area that's been called hard or you are dealing with fewer coyotes then you need to up your game plan. Eastern coyotes dont respond always like western coyotes I been there its two different games and many guys here that call in the Dakotas as well will tell you that, different game different Strangite. Take Leonard I think he used mostly prey distress in his areas, koko gets by with a hand call, wish it was that simple here but its not.
Cal T. finally admitted it's not same game everywhere in his pod cast with seal team six.
[ January 23, 2024, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 23, 2024, 03:38 PM:
But hey UT caller just use what works for you, that's all that matters.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 23, 2024, 07:39 PM:
I have a simple solution to areas that have been over-called ............. A map & a gas pedal. Time to go explore new places. (We have a LOT of public land down here.)
Never underestimate a mouth call. I have my eye on a different type of screamer that I'm told is REALLY loud and high pitched. Sadly, my hearing is so bad that all I hear on the demo sound is a loud 'whooshing'. Plus it's spendy & I'm cheap. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Somewhere, misting was mentioned. (This ought to make Leonard groan) If you can't get urine, try rinsing a fresh hide and wringing it out into a clean plastic bucket. Filter a couple of times and spray away. Beware of back-drafts. Big yuck when the breeze shifts.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 23, 2024, 08:20 PM:
public land? yeah Koko you do. I remember they said when there hunt where you like just stay out of people's front yards. We have public land as well cept my area many of coyotes don't like it, it stinks of city dwellers. CRP is place to be but most private with few walk in areas. I'll hunt that as well as agg land.
UTcaller you using a thermal yet?
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 23, 2024, 08:49 PM:
Yes you’re totally correct Tim, if you like the WT and are enjoying success with it that’s what it’s all about.
As far as the Thermal goes no I haven’t gotten into it. My Nephew has used thermal quite a bit and kills quite a few but I guess I’m getting old I like day calling and sleeping at night. I think the Thermal game is for the young guys. Lots of them are using it around here and posting there hero photos though so I guess it’s a pretty good way to get some Coyotes.I just can’t justify that much money. Especially when I still kill plenty of Coyotes during the day.
Good Hunting Chad
Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on January 24, 2024, 08:50 AM:
I have to say those MFK vocals are really good.
I do use a thermal scanner for daytime use.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 24, 2024, 12:39 PM:
quote:
I do use a thermal scanner for daytime use.
Yep sure lights up those peakers. I think it be great for cats as well since they just sit and blend in so well.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 24, 2024, 12:47 PM:
UTCALLER I know what you mean. I run dogs in day and try to call at night sure shortens up the clock as far as sleep goes. Thermal just ups the game in my part of the country and allows for more kills. Just way it is here when coyotes don't want to venture out during the day. Had a buddy make trip to north Dakota and they called for 24 hr.s straight, back of pickup was full, can't beat that I guess.
Had a buddy also out of Mo. made two day trip to Kansas and just called at night and killed most of Lances coyotes plus five cats.
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 25, 2024, 03:29 AM:
If my brother didn’t have a Foxpro. I’d be real tempted to buy another one just for those MFK sounds.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 25, 2024, 08:52 AM:
Just buy the sounds from F-P. Kind of the deal these days with F-p. get so so sounds then have to buy the good one's.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 25, 2024, 09:10 AM:
Kind of a funny thing if you go back and read archives. Like if a coyote is threat barking or what have you the game is over ect. I find that not to be true at all, just means they not sure of something. I've worked over five groups of coyotes this year and they make all kinds of sounds and had them on stand for over two hours till I killed one or decided to move up and come back little later and set up different. If game over a coyote will just leave which happens with some of the Lobo's, if they stay the game is still on.
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 25, 2024, 09:46 AM:
You probably can get whatever sounds you want on a new foxpro caller don’t know for sure. But why would I buy foxpro sounds for my Lucky Duck when they won’t work.
I have a lot of aggressive Coyote Vocals on my LD. Use them all the time and they call coyotes.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 25, 2024, 09:48 AM:
Oh they don't? thought you could down load all that stuff. well just have to buy direct I guess. From what I was told on F-P you have to buy the good stuff, not 100% just second hand news
[ January 25, 2024, 09:50 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 25, 2024, 01:57 PM:
Had to go out today with dogs to see if I could find a coyote I shot in crp. with my ackley. I casted dogs in the area but they stayed just little too south of where I thought it should be and not even 200 yards from me they jumped a coyote in a ditch with big willow patch. Thought maybe this was it but dogs ran it for good hour or so and couldn't get it to bat so I thought nope they must of jumped its mate. Got dogs caught and put back in one more time and nope no can find.
Took dogs back to kennel and then stopped back at where I killed the coyote. I left boot mark in the dirt for direction i was pointed at time of shot and had a farmyard light for my line. so i lined up with my mark and just kept walking through crp.
got about 200 yards from where I shot and saw little clear spot in crp and thought this has to be it. I just stood there and looked then I spotted it laying right where I had shot it.
Checked maile coyote over and it was a nice shot just behind shoulder no exit. This coyote and its mate have been called to four other times just couldn't get them lined up for a shot, too much cover and a drainage ditch.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 25, 2024, 06:35 PM:
Well, first of all, a hell of a high percentage of down coyotes are never recovered because they are poorly marked before the shot.
Be that as it may, sometimes they ain't dead and move on ya. I have found a trick that works very well in CRP, or similar is to get right down at the level, maybe a foot off the ground and scan around. This is a good way to pick up blood smears against the weeds or whatever vegetation there is. I have been able to "track" many coyotes that aren't freely bleeding, dropping blood on the ground, but a side/flank wound gets wiped on the dead grass or whatever?
But, if you are otherwise stumped on the exact line, it absolutely helps to go back to the location from where the shot was made. This is why I almost never move the truck, if you are hunting out of the back. This comes up frequently on multiples. It takes hard concentration to remember landmarks when they are spread out, but if you can leave the rifle where it is, secure, that will help if you don't have a laser marking your downed animals.
As far as aggressive sounds, that can be a negative with pups, early in the season. And aggressive can waste time dicking around with a dog that just ain't coming in. One time I had been playing a pair out of sight for long time, at least for me? The speaker was out maybe 50 feet to the left side and I was going to use a diaphragm and give them a vole sound. So, I had taken my eye off the direction where they were hiding... this was a day stand. Before I knew it both of them were running in at high speed and charging the speaker, I guess even if the sound was all the way off, they still hear it because the first one had his nose stuck in the speaker. From that point, it was just lucky that I got both of them; the second one up his ass flat out, beyond a hundred, at least.
Going back in the morning, if you can do it has paid off many times and especially cats, they seem inclined to hang around rather than limp off with four busted legs, as has actually happened to me on a coyote one time! The fucker was crawling away like a snake and making decent time, when I was looking through the scope and picked him up and directed my buddy "a little right" he actually heard him scratching along, then he ran up and killed him with the shotgun. We won that hunt by the one coyote, too!
Good hunting. El Bee
PS I was just beginning a jackrabbit squall on a Scirce when this coyote came through two bushes, and just as I let it out, the coyote was so startled he actually fell over backwards five feet from me! I'm not sure but I think I got him leaving town?
[ January 25, 2024, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 25, 2024, 10:23 PM:
quote:
I have a lot of aggressive Coyote Vocals on my LD. Use them all the time and they call coyotes.
So do i on my Ducky, thing is the coyotes approach different compared to the WT. Less circling and more direct travel with WT. Thats also reason for more volume at full. I remember when I use to call the Dakotas most coyotes came in straight line to the speaker then stop for look or turn to go down wind at about 200 yards or less. Speaker direction helps at times as well. Always turn it more into the wind or right, left depending on wind direction to get coyote to move more in that direction before it decides go down wind direction which puts it closer to me for shot. Just little things that help in the game.
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 26, 2024, 07:09 AM:
The WTF is a good caller with good sounds but I don’t believe it’s any better than the high end Foxpro, or Lucky Duck.
Good Hunting Chad
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 26, 2024, 09:09 AM:
My LD came with bad sound chip, guys I talked with said my hearing was getting bad, I said yes a little but thing was my WT sound just fine. LOL Got ahold of Rick and he sent new chip, no big deal but wonder how many other guys that are out there got bad chip and can't tell difference and still using it.
I pretty sure you take those LD sounds and run them through a WT 2030 they will distort. It is a nice caller though for what it is no complaints its been doing good job so far, some nights it kind of sucks when I have to drag two callers out on a stand. When making new stands in areas I have not called before either caller works on new stuff but when I have to go back at a group I been pounding for a month taking one coyote at a time then you see the benefits of one caller over the other.
Had a coyote I called two nights ago just couldn't get it to come under the 300 yard mark for nice shot. Went back last night in a thick fog could only see about 100 feet going down road in truck. I set up at same spot by some round hay bales and had him come in in five minutes to 100 yards going straight for the caller. Got his attention fast. Most of the groups I been calling to have been called more than five times, just didn't have a shot or took just one as I don't mag. dump on coyotes.
F-P I never really looked at one up close cept I saw Kelly Jacksons one time and listen to a pirated sound then just walked off
, they don't interest me. LOL
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 26, 2024, 10:12 AM:
It’s funny how that works. I can totally see what you’re saying about a certain preference. I used a Foxpro CS24 for a number of years and loved it. My brother bought one so I decided to look at another brand so if the coyotes got used to hearing the Foxpro sounds to much I could change it up a little. So I bought the WT Mighty Atom, you know the big heavy one. I Hated the size and weight and absolutely hated the remote but it worked well calling coyotes.I used that for a couple years and sold it because it was a pain to pack around. I then bought the Lucky Duck roughneck and love it. In my opinion it has the best coyote vocals out there. My brother comments about that each time we go out. We usually use my caller when we hunt together. 😉
[ January 26, 2024, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 26, 2024, 02:16 PM:
Yeah I think my Atom got heavier over the years. No wolf season in site so it just sits for now and not planning any trips S-W either. Sometimes the LD. lacks in sounds to use for certain coyotes and I don't always know who I be calling too so that's why I bring both and some tight stands I also run both, keeps coyote from getting my scent.
To make Lance happy I gave the old estrus chirp a honest try last year and little this year. Think I called two in and the rest would circle half mile down wind and then come back way they came and just walk off.. LOL Not sure why the older coyotes don't like it or show so much caution. Maybe its a Kansas thing, not sure. Also find the louder a coyote vocal the more its inclined to trigger a coyote response and put them in an aggressive mood. When I ordered my new WT Pat didn't get the sounds in complete order as to how I wanted them so the numbers are different and takes a little time to get that sorted out again so the LD see's little more use. I use a lot of sounds over and over on a stand I have called several times that's not really the issue, coyotes don't think or have human brain. What sets them off is anything that's alien to them, not normal. Then you have to find what the coyotes aggression level is, body langue helps give the answer and then give coyote something it can handle which could be younger coyote vocals or female or just go to coon, Redfox distress or even a Vole mouse. Get them to lower that caution flag.
[ January 26, 2024, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 26, 2024, 10:19 PM:
MFK has webb site or forums, so I checked them out. You have to scroll down aways but will find some of the new sounds they have out and can listen to them just like when you buy F-P sounds. On phone they sound pretty good but so do a lot of other sounds till you put some amp to their ass then they distort. Kind of looks like they want to target breeding season as they have a bunch of those sounds. So in a week or two a guy have to wait till next year to use them. LOL Most of breeding sounds I would consider med. in loudness or less, some of those sounds just not going to cut little wind or travel to far. Rabbit screams yep sounds like a rabbit nothing fancy about it.
Also looks like you can only get the sounds for a F-P so LD guys shit out of luck unless MFK has some you can put on another caller, not sure got tired of reading.
From reading post by guys who used the sounds they just going out basically and getting one coyote for the day or night or just on one stand, some guys had no luck so far, but you know if coyote not there to hear it it's not going to come deal. Someone thinks they need them to up there game so there F-P be more productive them have at the MFK sounds.
Good news is LD has a lot of those sounds as well just need to work on getting them studio grade.
WT has a few of them but nobody understands the WT and what its meant for along with the live sounds. The WT vocals are designed to get a response and to make them aggressive, terr. ect and that's what it does, wasn't meant to say hey girls lets fuck which can be a hit and miss anyway and seasonal somewhat.
In early days I kind of followed what Higgins preached and then hunted with Randy R. and found Higgins was way the fuck off base. Thing with Randy was he never give you the answer to anything he have you figure it out then let you know if right or going in right direction, he just get you started and leave rest up to you and the best teacher the coyotes. I have to watch it a little early in season with YOY but if they packed up then up its time to get aggressive and see how far they will go. and thing is I'm going back after same groups getting one at a time so what I'm doing, and callers used must be getting job done. I think anyone in right spot can call a virgin coyote in but what about the old whores? Lesson learned over the years? Coyote vocals at full volume and don't give up on them till they give up. Keep stands non-alien and you be fine. Pound them with aggressive sounds then tone it down a notch and see for yourself what happens. Oh I did see few vid.s with MFK in use yep, they had some hard chargers, but what if I told you can get same result when you go from vocals to vole mouse.
On one of the forums here on face book the kids are buying that shit up from MFK thinking its the next silver bullet. who going to tell them it won't work if they don't have big enough food plot or land to call in that has coyotes in first place. Or even a understanding of what sounds are and when and how to use them. LOL
Oh a heads up they just had the shot show and coming out with new thermals so shop around you can maybe get some good deals plus there are a lot of kids getting out of it as they found out you still need to know how to call coyotes for the thermal to work. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
P.S. MFK don't want you to share the sounds you buy with anyone else. Reminds me of Bill M., wonder how many going to get passed on for free? But they only good for other F-P's and most guys know those owners are never honest. LOL.
[ January 26, 2024, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 27, 2024, 08:06 AM:
As little time as I spend calling at night anymore, I have a good spotlight that I can use and it only cost me a couple hundred bucks years ago. 👍😁
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 27, 2024, 08:52 AM:
Interesting comment, UT. Since I had my surgery about 3 years ago, I sold both my rigs and haven't done any, myself. But, I miss it. Daytime and night calling are two different worlds. I sincerely think it's a shame that it doesn't interest more people.
Of course, there is the built in prejudice it has something to do with poaching deer or something? Anyway, I love it, but at this point, I probably won't ever go to the effort to build another rig, so it looks bleak in that direction.
Whatever.
Good hunting. El Bee
[ January 27, 2024, 08:55 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 27, 2024, 12:21 PM:
I’ve always enjoyed nightcalling(spotlighting). Especially in Nevada. And you’re right it is a totally different game. Wind seems to be a lot more critical at night they usually always circle down. My Nephew bought a thermal scope but for $6500 I just don’t see it. We seem to kill as many with a good spotlight as we do with thermal. Maybe if I was younger it would be a better investment. I like day calling better anyway.
Good Hunting Chad
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 27, 2024, 12:51 PM:
Leonard there still few diehards using lights but it a southern thing where you can use a night rigg and just drive through a area calling and killing. Then you got few guys can't afford a thermal or don't hunt enough to justify one, so they still use lights, and some guys just hunt the full moon. No snow here this year for full moon calling though.
Texas getting real big on use of thermals though and having big money contests. Guess who is promoting F-P and MFK sounds? the contest guys in Texas are. Thing is the contest guys using the MFK sounds and winning their contests was winning them before MFK came along and check in numbers still staying about the same. No silver bullets there.
Also sounds like new MFK sounds are designed to be played on the new X-24 F-P caller and they are on back order right now. Good sales gimmick if you ask me and big win for F-P.
From what I also read the contest guys only stay on stand for 7 to 15 minutes and move on, hardly a chance to give a caller and new sounds a chance to prove themselves or not prove themself.
Did some more real life research and checked with some friends up in northern Minn. that use a F-P as well as a LD. and also have the MFK sounds. These guys call in roughly 100 coyotes a year, some call year-round and some jump over to N.D. and call as well. From what I gathered on MFK sounds is they just another sound to try and use nothing great about them and yes if you just keep using them you still going to kill coyotes, but your numbers are not going to just jump up like MFK and F-P make it sound like. Just more snake oil to excite the unknowing and bring sales back up for F-P.
Guys that buy the x 24 should get them in the spring and make sure they work when they arrive, so you got time to send them back in to be fixed before the season starts next year. Good luck.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 27, 2024, 12:59 PM:
A decent thermal with 384 core can be bought for around 1900.00 t0 2,300.00 and will put you in the night game if you have the time to hunt often it pays for itself. Some guys I think spent that much on a suppressor, good news is the price for them is going down a little and much easier to get. I don't have one yet and not sure if I ever will but it's on the backburner. Now if I could just find 100,000 acres with a locked gate, I'd have it made.
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 27, 2024, 01:12 PM:
“ Now if I could just find 100,000 acres with a locked gate, I'd have it made. “
You don’t need that Tim you got the new and improved WTF caller.😂
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 27, 2024, 01:13 PM:
Yep but I running out of coyotes.
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 27, 2024, 02:52 PM:
Ah come on Tim there will always be coyotes to call. Just use that amazing studio quality Volume in your WTF.🤩
[ January 27, 2024, 02:52 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 27, 2024, 03:09 PM:
Yeah its nice when I can bring them in from a mile section or two, fewer stands that way but at times can get to crowded for a night stand..
Don't know if any members here remember Kiki and JD Piatt from Ohio or Ill. area? (They were at one of the camp outs) Anyway, JD got himself some pet coyotes and jumped into the recorded sound game. Some guy claims they are killing coyotes by the piles so IF SOME GUYS NEED MORE GOOD SOUNDS CHECK OUT JD.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 27, 2024, 05:47 PM:
That's funny? I don't remember anybody at a canpout from Ohio? Are these sounds compatible on any format?
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 27, 2024, 07:24 PM:
Leonard it was same campout that the major attended. Would of been the first one I also attended. Southern part of state just off interstate, that airplane storage places was just down the road to the east. Randy Shaw was there.
Not sure Leonard what caller they compatible with. Most likely F-P again they need all the help they can get.
[ January 27, 2024, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 29, 2024, 10:51 AM:
The fog has finally lifted and took nephew out calling last night, little shit got good eye for spotting coyotes in cover and dam good hearing. Had a farmer with a feed lot and is pretty much the norm to have big stacks of round hay bales stacked up around farm site to block the wind and snow. Just across the road was vacant grove with a slough and willows behind it, natural coyote cover. We set up and started calling then 3 coyotes lite up and I could just barely make em out. Nephew walks over to me and says they in the farmers round bales, so we adjusted our stand, and I gave them a few howls and waited. Nothing came out so I gave them some pup and deer fight. Game on, two came out from the bales and came our way and lost them in a low spot but soon one of them appeared right in front of us and headed to my left and for the road. I voice barked to stop it but nephew didn't shoot when it stopped for second. So i voice barked again to get it to stop but also added shooooot! The coyote stops so I put cross hair on it and then bam both guns went off at same time. LOL Told nephew he got it and good shooting. Nice female but looked like she missed the breeding season or perhaps just too young. Nephew got his hero picture so now I can sleep better during the day. LOL
Nephew was having issues hitting coyotes earlier in season, found out he didn't have his shit dialed in right and was guessing most of the time as gun was shooting to left but if he made site correction the cross hair would go to far right, just couldn't fine tune it so I checked around and found that the company for scope he had come out with some new software to fix the . and it worked so he was finally in tune. Also told him I have a cure for missed shots. He says what's that? I said each time you miss a shot I'll kick you square in the nuts either you catch on or just go through life with sore nuts. Think I fixed the problem. LOL
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 30, 2024, 08:35 AM:
That was the Pachacho Summit campout, the one that Higgins picked the location....Thanks Rich! Always want to have a campout in the middle of some dense bushes!
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: And remember, there was a lot of wide open space, driving in to the bushes!
[ January 30, 2024, 08:36 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 08, 2024, 07:25 PM:
Boy I sure wish I would have gone to those campouts. Life just got to busy. I also regret not getting to go out to Nevada with You, Dave, and Scott. I was all ready to go and then a Family thing came up last minute. Scott called me when he got to Utah and we had a nice chat on the phone. But now that I’m older I wish I had put some of that stuff aside and enjoyed your guys company.
Good Hunting Chad
[ February 08, 2024, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 08, 2024, 10:59 PM:
I think the first two was the best. Had Steve Craig talk too few about snaring and calling big cats, but he kind of held back little on cats since he usually gave instruction classes on them. Paul was real hoot he reminded me of that big game hunter in Africa that went around shot elephants and wore a wide brim hat. The Maj. from Colorado talked about Rem. 550 22 l.r. and calling fox. Tim B. was a real hoot to hang with along with Vic, Tim B. was pretty good campfire cook and Vic was good at scrambling eggs with the pistol.
Higgins was a blast as well just wish he didn't stutter so bad when he chose his words, lot of knowledge there on AZ. coyotes.
Hunting with Shaw and Higgins was pretty good also, more laid-back type of southern calling and good info on stand selections for that type of calling. Saw my first southern bobcat I think Danny the fire jumper shot it and I helped him get it skinned. Think it was Tim B. that cooked up the backstraps and a snake was also brought in to try as well. Names slip me here but two guys from AZ trappers' ass. was a wealth of knowledge as far as trapping goes plus, they nice enough to let me use their truck for few hours.
Had whats his name from Cali. with his night rigg that invited me to go calling but then in morning turned me down cause I didn't have a shot gun. So I hunted with Higgens and Shaw and shot one coyote at 3-5 yards with a scoped rifle and Higgens did a heck of a job keeping that coyote in my face till I could find hair in the scope. Higgins was pumping that mist bottle like he was shooting a AR and it worked. LOL
Also remember when Danny passed away they brought some of his calls and other odd stuff to camp out for anyone that wanted some of it. I got a few calls and some call parts.
Bill was a pretty good guy and he worked at one of the mines by town doing same thing I did up in Mn. so we had things to talk about there.
Leonard's partner Pat was heck of a nice guy, enjoyed his company as well.
I think I met Koko on my last campout up by Pauls place. It was something to be gathered there in camp with callers from all over and many had their own way or style of doing it.
And R. Shaw was a hell of a snake whisper as well.
[ February 08, 2024, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 09, 2024, 08:34 AM:
Yeah, I think that the campout that I met Tim was the one that I ran into Gerry Blair at a gas station in Seligman. He was on his way to an elk hunt. Neat guy that 'never met a stranger'.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 09, 2024, 10:18 AM:
Yeah, old times. We probably should have documented those campouts a lot better? The "night rig" guy you mention is ? drawing a blank, I'll get back to you....
that didn't take long, Gary Clevenger, a complete asshole. He considered that Pichacho Peak campout to be exactly like a hunt contest, which is complete bullshit. Personally, I didn't care if I killed anything, I've been there done that. But Gary asked me to take photos of him with his kill, which was 5 animals, and he "confided in me" that he thought he was, well, he didn't say first place, but he surmised that he had already killed more coyotes than anybody in camp. What a warped asshole. The coyote will get real close, and not much fear and he uses an overunder and blasts them, usually within 10 feet. He has no plan B. That must be why he turned you down? First of all, if you were outside of his thicket, you would shoot any coyote approaching his hideout and you would negate what he was doing, so of course, he couldn't have that. But, on the other hand, it sounds like a clusterfuck to have 2 guys with shotguns in the bushes with no visibility? IDK? Maybe back to back might work. But you got bugs crawling up your legs and down your neck, and the odds are getting good that you will soon step on a fucking rattlesnake. Whatever, he thinks he has discovered a gold mine. But he's a one trick pony. Fuck him! He has stabbed me in the back several times, so yeah, I'm going to tell you what I think of the prick! He was jealous, because he never, ever won a fucking thing in our hunts, usually blanked? As a night hunter, he was a consistant failure. Some can, some can't and I don't care, but he always wanted to prove himself at something. Already wasted too much ink on a total asshole, <sigh>
Good hunting. El Bee
[ February 09, 2024, 10:39 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 09, 2024, 11:45 AM:
Yeah I wouldn’t have cared if I even left camp. Just to sit around shooting the Bull and telling stories that would be priceless. I can go out and kill Coyotes any old time I want. But to swap stories that would make for some great memories.
Good Hunting Chad
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 09, 2024, 12:01 PM:
Oh dam I forgot about Gerry, he was good story teller.
Yeah Leonard spot on about Clever Gary, he did think it was some sort of calling contest and few others there to prove themselves as well. I was there mostly to meet guys from group and stayed in camp mostly. Did get out for afternoon hunt, Bill suggested I go north across the interstate highway but there wasn't much open ground that I'm used to calling in. When I hunted with Shaw and Higgins, we went a few miles East and the ground was little more open for shotguns or rifles, and I felt comfortable hunting that area. I also remember that those Az. coyotes stink and smell so bad I doubt they could smell a human. LOL
I was sitting on one stand with Shaw and had some sort of bush for backing and noticed a hole in the ground right between my feet about the size of a silver dollar. As I was sitting on stand, I noticed this black object moving on the ground and coming in my directions so kept an eye on it while I scanned for coyotes. It finally got close enough to tell what it was, biggest dam spider I ever saw in my life, and it kept coming.
I didn't want to ruin the stand, so I just let the spider run its course. Just as the stand was about to be over the spider was now between my feet and headed straight for that hole and soon disappeared into it, wow that was close. LOL
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 09, 2024, 12:25 PM:
On one of the campouts I road there with R. Shaw and his 3 amigos', we took two pickups and made a few stops in N.M. to call coyotes. I don't remember how many Geordie got on one stand but he did pretty good. Then I remember one stand 2 of Randy's amigos said to me as we was walking back to the truck that my calling was getting better. I told them I'm not here to teach and only reason they was along for ride was to glean what they could from who ever. We stopped down the road aways and think it was Shaws turn to call and he called in a nice big redish brown coyote and one of the amigos' took the shot and missed it. LOL
Found out his rifle was off and got that fixed.
WE got back in the pickup and Randy says its my turn to call so pick a spot and we got about 3/8 mile down road and I said stop. Randy and the amigo said why here so soon we just burned out that spot little ways behind us. I said its my turn and I want to call here.
They weren't too happy about my choice to say the least, but they complied, and we stopped and set up for a stand. I let out a few series on hand call and soon I hear the amigo's gun go off. Big reddish-brown coyote come out of a corn field and stopped in front of the amigo, and he hit it this time. He claimed that was the biggest coyote he ever killed to date.
As we walked back to the truck short time later, I look at the amigo and said to him, how's my calling coming along now? LOL He was speechless.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 10, 2024, 07:58 AM:
That story only proves what I have believed for a long time, play your hunches. It's like a hot spot on a lake, biggest bass I ever caught was off a dock with a backlash and landing in the weeds close to shore. And calling in a cat while busy working on some equipment and routinely playing a sound. We had 4 coyotes standing on a berm watching us while we were looking at a map spread out on the hood of the truck. It's kinda unpredictable, like you can't catch a fish unless your line is in the water. Same thing with Higgins, he used to call parking lots and back yards, unlike me, I'd get as far out the end of the road as possible, then keep going. What looks good to you might not look as "gammy" to me. So, you can't teach instinct, just play hunches. And then work a stand in a way that guarantees a blank. I've seen these guys waste a lot of time worried about hiding the truck and then watch a coyote run right past a vehicle at a gallop heading to your stand a quarter a mile away, but the truck was "hidden" from YOU! Whatever!
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 10, 2024, 08:37 AM:
It's not too hard to bring up a visual of two pick-ups passing each other on a dirt road (neither one slowing down to reduce dust for the other guy) one with a shotgun leaving the wide open country and heading for the thick brush and the other with a rifle leaving the brush country heading for the open areas ........... and both knowing that they're doing it right.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 10, 2024, 01:54 PM:
In my case I learned long time ago the game is never over with a called and missed coyote till coyote says it's over. I remember reading where many callers would claim a shot at coyote was headed for the next county or what have you and it's not the case. They just run far enough till they feel comfortable and can't see you. Plus, one needs to keep in mind coyotes are territorial so they only going to go so far. I had a 50/50 chance of bringing that coyote back in, the others gave up but I didn't. LOL
This winter I have small groups I been calling to and take one out at a time or if stand goes sour just let them go. I have 5 groups I've called in more than 7 times but do have two coyotes I have not been able to do anything with due to my nephew doing a fauking mag. dump on them, but I'll get them figured out soon enough.
I also remember years ago callers making claims they have a tough pair way out in front and couldn't do anything with them and they just gave up and would sneak back out of the area. I've stayed for as long as 2 1/2 hours or better with some and long as they stick around you just stick it out for long as you can till one fucks up. The temp.s been nice this year which allows me to stay longer on a stand if I have too.
I don't have hundreds of coyotes, so I don't have the option of just packing up and going to look for a easy one, but then again what does that prove.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 10, 2024, 02:11 PM:
Yeah I agree with the truck deal Leonard. Had it happened here few times this winter. I don't have too many spots to hide the truck, so I just park it in a field approach and walk farther away from it down the road or farther into a field. I get a coyote that swings wide to my downwind side which is where my truck is and they walk right by it. But do know if the caller is set up to close to truck and then they see it they will lock up. So now I walk little farther and set caller down and walk back towards the truck but still aways away from it and sit. I know coyotes can see well in the dark but just don't know what they are seeing or how far exactly. A foggy night seems to help in my favor.
Another thing I don't like is I have to use a tri-pod and stand or you just don't see them come due to ground being so flat with little dips and shallow valleys, not much for high spots to sit on due to not being in right locations to where they will come from and some high spots just offer the coyote a hiding spot as when they get to base of a little hill you can't see them and then they lock up and bark. Second shooter would be nice to have along for those places.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 11, 2024, 11:33 AM:
I'm sorry, I can't get very serious about coyotes in Minnesota. I don't know what else to think about it, but do not forget, within my memory, there weren't any coyotes in that state! Zip! I have mentioned before that the biggest deal, ever, for me was spotting a Red Fox hightailing it at the end of a cornrow we were tramping through, while pheasant hunting. To me, at the time, it was equivalent to seeing maybe a Bengal Tiger cross the road in front of the car. (nobody had trucks)
I am as positive as I can be, well "speculating" might be more accurate; that we starting to hunt coyotes in California, and soon after, in neighboring states, that is the reason for pushing coyotes EAST. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
I had always heard that the Mississippi river was a historic barrier for coyote movements....until they took a chance and crossed a friggin' bridge! Which they will do, that's a fact.
Another story I heard, a long time ago is that somebody, somewhere? was live trapping coyotes for some application in, was it one of the Carolina's? I'm sort of hazy on the story, but they supposedly were training dogs to do something? And anyway, that was the "HOW" coyotes wound up all over the eastern states. Could be bullshit, IDK? But, it does offer a reason for how and why they got spread all over the United States in the 50's and 60's when they never had the urge, before, without help?
And suddenly we heard stories about COYDOGS. Personally, I never believed those stories until i personally killed a couple and had no other explanation? Rare, but possible.
Anyway, the whole idea of hunting coyotes in Minnesota is just weird....to me?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 11, 2024, 12:12 PM:
I knew we had coyotes' way up north in the state back in 70's and then had our first coyotes in southern part of the state moved in in 1985.
Think my coyotes came from the north and they called them brush wolves back then.
According to studies I have the Eastern strain of coyotes that go as far west into half of the state of S.D..
If you look at a AZ. coyote vrs. western S.D. coyote and then Minnesota coyote there is a difference in them. Build of body, size and fur are different. Coyotes here tend to be little more timid as well and not always eager to defend their terr. like other places.
A Lady in Tenn. or close by cross breeds coyotes to dogs so yes it can happen.
Coyotes can swim also.
Not weird hunting coyotes here, just different and more work at times. I guess I could say our coyotes behave like your coyotes that been called to by a F-P several times.
Little tid-bit on overshooting at coyotes. The dogs I run are not bred as gun dogs so when you shoot around them to close it can shut them down for a few hours or even a day depending on how bad the shooting was, each dog handles it little different. If this happens then I have to take them someplace without other hunters around and get them to hunt again and forget about the shooting. I believe coyotes that been shot at behave same way and it just takes time for them to get over it, some never do depending on how bad they were shot at like a mag. dump for example.
I don't have a lot of coyotes so I can't afford to mag. dump or overshoot a group and just try to take one out with one shot and then let it get quiet, then come back at another date and try for another.
I got out last night and used my side by side to get around with, much easier to hide than a pick up. Went back to area I called 7 times before and had coyotes all seven times still willing to play and I got another one of them last night. I went to another spot I called 8 times and got another coyote out of the area which took 2 hours to come in from mile away. If I hear them howl or happen to spot one of them, I don't leave till the coyote does. It was dark with 32 temp. and no wind, dead calm which was perfect as coyote has no downwind to go to, just come straight in. If you had a bigger screen on phone, I would send you a vid. from last night.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 11, 2024, 12:17 PM:
Koko you got a smart phone with big screen??
If so send me a text. 507-227-2097
[ February 11, 2024, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 11, 2024, 12:28 PM:
Nah, a burner flip phone pretty much maxes out my tech savvy. Sorry.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 11, 2024, 12:37 PM:
That's another thing. I almost NEVER call even close to the same place, a second time. I admit that are a couple spots on the reservation that it would be a shame to not make a stand, it's so ideal, and I might not get there again, the same season. But, it's always cold calling and no repeat stands. There is too much territory available and even making a stand in the same place would be more or less an accident.
When, you can document some spot where you made a stand 8 times, that just doesn't compute, for me? I remember a place on the res. where you drive in a half mile and there is a tank, and it's just begging to be called, but even then, I'm pretty sure I only called that spot 3 times over 15 years, so that's hardly the same thing. It's not a legit concept, again, we have wide wide open spaces!
Think about this. We head out on a week end hunt, and might go to 4 different states. Yes, we decide ahead of time, but when I would leave the little woman at home, she piped up and said, hey look, should something happen and you don't come back, I would feel pretty stupid when the cop asks; okay where did he go. And she would say, he's been going to Nevada lately, or in the fall, he seems to go to Arizona more often. So, she insisted on buying me a cell phone, the analogue type so I wouldn't be broke down and stranded. That's why I can't relate to somebody making a statement that he has called the exact same spot EIGHT TIMES!
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 11, 2024, 01:07 PM:
Yes eight times. Thats where they are, the whole family group and somewhat split up with some in one mile section and some in the next and all within hearing distance. Drive about five miles down road and then the next group is scattered about. Then go another five miles north and another group. I don't have to drive to Iowa or S.D. to find coyotes.
Got a red fox living on edge of town to south and a pair of coyotes on edge of town to east. Then just down road have a family group living up by feed lot in the haystacks. I usually don't get a second shot on multiples so just let them go, I'll be back. LOL
Its kind of like it here as it is for state trappers in S.D. they only have certain places they can work or call, no large numbers if you go about it right way. Skim the easy ones early and work for the tuff ones later, just how it is.
Been using the Lucky duck for skimming and WT on the tuff ones and also have a few other guys that come through area calling with their fox pro's of which it doesn't hold a candle to either caller I have.
[ February 11, 2024, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 11, 2024, 01:23 PM:
Speaking of callers did you know WT had coyote vocals from the beginning that were recorded by the owner of WT. (over 25 years ago) Still going strong!
Lucky duck comes along, and owner recorded his own sounds a few years back. And then Fox pro which has been around for long time as well is just getting into the coyote vocal game and their sounds are outsourced from Cal. T. and MFK.
And if you remember my old posts about how I set caller next to me so I can rotate it 360 degrees to get the sound out there? Well a few people must have listened cause F-P and Lucky duck now both have rotating E-callers. LOL Faukers aren't smart enough to come up with their own ideas on calling coyotes, always have to copy someone. LOL
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 11, 2024, 10:13 PM:
We used to do a version of that before you ever saw a fucking coyote. With a Weems all call.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 12, 2024, 12:29 PM:
Perhaps Leonard but only documented info on it was by Ed Sceery Using his howlers and by me using a E-caller and I'm talking calling 360 degrees not just side to side. But do know some guys did it with E-caller to locate only. I have most of the calling handbooks and most articles written on coyote calling back from the 70's and no mention of it.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 12, 2024, 12:45 PM:
Gerry Blair mentioned turning the caller in an old vhs video. Not sure of the year. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 12, 2024, 01:06 PM:
Wow TA’s contribution to the history of predator calling is turning a E-caller 360 degrees while calling on a stand. Revolutionary!!!!😂😉
Good Hunting Chad
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 12, 2024, 02:02 PM:
See there, Tim. He's using sarcasm and suggesting your methods and ideas aren't totally revolutionary.
You know, there have been people browsing these pages that actually have been there and done that and it's somewhat difficult to tell them something they don't already know. I myself started calling coyotes in the 1960's, actually my first call was a Seercy. I ate half of the mouthpiece over the years. My first machine was a car tape deck using 8 track tapes I had to modify. I still have it. I had Gerald Stewart build me a special called for applications few people would understand a need for, at the time. which was more than a half a century ago. There's not much I haven't thought of, on my own.
I USED TO HAVE A STUFFED PUPPY RIGGED WITH RUBBER BANDS THAT I WOULD YANK ON, BEFORE ANYBODY DID IT WITH A MOTOR AND BATTERIES. THE NEED FOR SUCH A THING/DEVICE WAS CONSIDERED, EMPLOYED AND DISCARDED BEFORE MOST FOLKS HAD EVER SEEN A REAL COYOTE.
Ahead of the curve, sorta. I did a lot of experimenting with different equipment long before anybody had ever heard of Foxpro. But, there I go tooting my own horn. Sorry! Excuse me. It's just that I've been screwing around with coyotes for years, not the first but I have wasted a lot of money on stuff that had little monetary value.
There is an article in one magazine about using an ebike for hunting coyotes. WE didn't have the "E" but we sure as hell used a bike along the canals and levees. One guy I know used a special skateboard on a 40 mile run of highway 95 in Nevada. Just over the hill was Area 51.
The Burnham brothers plowed some new ground, back in the day. Hell, this was before the CAMO revolution. Believe it or not, when I stared hunting coyotes and making stands, absolutely nobody made camo clothing of any kind. Now, it's mandatory....they think.
I've seen quite a bit, now that I think about it.
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: excuse this, I don't want to sound like I know it all.
[ February 12, 2024, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 12, 2024, 02:55 PM:
quote:
See there, Tim. He's using sarcasm and suggesting your methods and ideas aren't totally revolutionary.
And yet people are still walking out and placing there caller on the ground or in a tree/ fence post. LOL
Like said though there is no other documentation of anyone doing it till now. Look through archives on a rainy day let me know what you can find on it. Most articles you also read, or books say place E-caller out in front of stand nothing more on it. Can also remember when I mentioned placing caller next to me most members here questioned my reason for doing it not one stepped in and said likewise or said so and so does it, not one peep. LOL Then for years all a guy hears about is how the remote range sucks on this caller or that caller and so on. LOL
Yeah I started with a Dennis Kirk cassette caller and a Johny Stewart cass. caller, never used the speaker with the wire on it.
I started on red fox till the coyotes moved in, same game just different sounds and approach and spent many years calling coyotes in the Dakotas before I was even a member here. Funny thing about the Dennis Kirk caller, wasn't that hard to switch sounds on it and he came out with some nice duplex calling tapes that no one else ever thought of at the time.
[ February 12, 2024, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on February 12, 2024, 04:51 PM:
Exactly what benefit do think you derive from spinning the caller on your head 360 degrees?
Ive seen you make mention of it over the years, but never an explanation of why you think it holds any benefit.
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 12, 2024, 06:50 PM:
Exactly My thoughts. And all that movement can’t be beneficial on a stand.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 12, 2024, 06:53 PM:
sound travels same distance all around thus more area is covered. Thus fewer stands need to be made. But only applies to open country calling and if locating has not been done prior. Not sure where you came up with the head thingy but just one hand will do and turn caller 360 as you howl or play distress.
Just think in most areas coyotes have roughly five miles of terr. and I can cover all that in just two stands. The bush people who just set caller down in front have to make more stands before they get into them but then again if you in the right spot in the bushes you don't need to call 360 and if you got the numbers to call to in first place. You guys think everywhere else is like AZ or Nev. or Cali. well got some bad news its not and kind of makes you look stupid if you think so. LOL
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 12, 2024, 07:02 PM:
🙄🥱
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 12, 2024, 07:17 PM:
UT its done at start of a stand then caller put down on ground facing the front of stand and that's how they come in. No more movement than you walking in and sitting caller down in place of choice then walking back to where you plan to sit or do you crawl into your stand area? Can also rotate caller 360 from sitting position no big whoop. Maybe that's why I can go into a pasture that's been over called by F-P guys and clean up on the ones they miss cause they only calling one direction. Think about.
With breeding going on here the coyotes been moving pretty good, hard to tell where they are but I got the area covered and only had one empty stand out of six the other night. But you know I don't really care how others do it if what they are doing works for them, but you go look in the other forums it's not working for others. Also, at times I will get some coyotes to also howl off in distance which tells me where they are, and I be over there soon no big whoop. Also, people happy with just skimming more power to them but I like to go after what's there requardless of their age or how much they been called to.
Other night went back at two groups and took another from each, one was 7th time in and other 8th time in.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 12, 2024, 08:55 PM:
Do seminars Tim. Charge admission.
just to clarify; I get varied responses from hung up coyotes if I turn in a direction 180 degrees from where he or they are. There's some value in having the sound project in that direction away from where he is, waiting behind a bush and not moving. The coyote still hears the sound but now the sound sounds substantially different and I surmise that our hung up coyote might "think" my "rabbit" is moving away. I'm not trying to say that the coyote is thinking and analyzing the situation, but in some cases, he will move at an angle and it's surprising. The point is the sound projection in a different direction sometimes motivates our coyote to advance at an angle that doesn't mesh with the wind direction. I'm having a hard time explaining it without a chalk board. Whatever, I am forced to tinker with sound direction once in a while when I don't have anything better to do. lol Basically, it will start them moving, but not to me, off at a 45+ angle, one way or the other. It's not very scientific, but it provokes a reaction where he might move but not in to me, more like 45 degrees one way or the other. I know this is confusing, and I'm sorry I can't explain it any clearer than my feeble attempt. What I'm saying is that I sometimes direct/project the sound in a direction opposite from where the coyote is. Boy was that a mess!
Good hunting. El Bee ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 13, 2024, 01:57 AM:
you explained it just fine Leonard.
A majority of the coyotes will work to the center of your sound cone where its the loudest and yes at times you can get the coyote to move or shift positions. It can bring them in a little closer before they go down wind. After I rotate my caller i point it in direction, I want them to come in from.
You can also turn it a little as they come so they tend to favor where you want them to be before they try for downwind. I think we on same page sort of.
Another thing about using coyote vocals the downside is when using them the coyotes will tend to want to circle more to see or smell who there or size up the other you might say..
Wish you had a better phone then I can show you some nice footage on coyotes coming in at night.
Thermal has a video recorder or camera which comes in handy when you miss a shot it will show you where the bullet went and where you had the crosshair when you pulled the trigger, good training aid you might say.
I got a few tight spots I been saving as Im waiting for my order of coyote urine to show up, and see how the coyotes react to that when I have them circled around me and pissed off.
People tend to get a brain lock or mind set you might call it, better off if they just stay home and watch Randy Anderson vid.s
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 13, 2024, 10:55 PM:
Victor is old school in a target rich environment. He doesn’t need any tricks or hi tech gear. Coyote are quite eager to die from 17 caliber chip shots down there in McNeal.
Good hunting. El Bee 🐝
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 13, 2024, 11:56 PM:
sure. Have wondered why he just don't use a pistola instead.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 14, 2024, 11:30 AM:
I pondered the question for a minute and bet he has! Maybe he will share? Bruce Kennedy told me about Vic’s exploits with handgun. At any event, he’s the man to beat, but he’s so damned shy, he never brags, so it’s like pulling teeth to get him to open up. I don’t even know what they call that type of competition, bowling pins or targets or speed or exactly what he is expert at? Maybe all of it? Maybe we could somehow get Dorathee (sp) his lovely wife, to fill in the blanks? Or his Liberal friend 20gauge? Tim Behle?
Good hunting. El Bee 🐝
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 14, 2024, 01:35 PM:
Think one time it was mentioned he used a smith-Wesson so it can't be a speed thing. Maybe he shoots those human form targets that peek around a corner. or maybe a egg shoot? Whatever it is he got Taylor Swifts attention.
[ February 14, 2024, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on February 14, 2024, 06:04 PM:
I use two different S&W revolvers in my competition shooting, and yes, they are a "speed thing" as well as an accuracy thing. Why would you think a revolver can't shoot at speed Tim?
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 14, 2024, 07:00 PM:
I seem to remember a guy, Ed McGiveren possibly that could make six shots out of a wheel gun sound like a single roar.
Speaking of revolvers, will one of those old time pistols fire if the hammer is pulled back 3/4 of the way & released / no finger on the trigger ????
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 14, 2024, 09:09 PM:
Bob Munden was pretty fast, but he wasn't using any out of the box pistols. Also in his shows you just look at his hands all black from gun powder you know it took some time to perfect his shot for the cameras. LOL
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 14, 2024, 09:12 PM:
I examined one of his S&W once, when riding along somewhere. I casually opened the cylinder and the cartridges spilled out on me and embarrassed, I put it back together. But those chambers were so polished and overbore that serious resizing the empties must be necessary? I'm pretty sure he does this so they drop out and never need the plunger while he speed loads. I'm sure it's a custom modification to facilitate reloading and he must use a speed loader, as well.
Notice his reply was as brief as possible, you never get much out of him. Actually, I'm surprised we got that much!
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: Tim-don't bother to respond, you will just stick your foot in your mouth. Again.
[ February 14, 2024, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on February 14, 2024, 09:52 PM:
Just a clean cylinder Leonard, no honing or overbore, that would play hell on brass.
I do use speed loaders on the 6 shot revolver, but use full moon clips on my 8 shot. Haven't had it but 6 or 8 months, but beginning to appreciate the speed of a reload with the full moon clips,just drop the whole thing in, no manipulating the loaders as with the other setup.
Mundens hands were black Tim, because the quick draw shooting you viewed he uses black power blanks with wax bullets, messy stuff.
I shot 2 years in a row 84 and 85 at the World Speed Shooting Championships held in California. Bob Munden was one of the guest shooting exhibitionists. He did his usual fast draw show with blanks and single action revolver, he can surely draw and shoot fast,just a few hundredths of a second,popping balloons.
I was most impressed when he asked for a female spectator's diamond ring, pulled out a 44 mag revolver, turned his back to a hillside with what looked to be a 36 inch diameter white steel gong at what I would guess was 200 yards up the hill. He laid the revolver over his left shoulder, held the ring to his eye,
apparently using it as a mirror, and took one shot and hit that mother fucker.
There Leonard, my longest post to date
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 14, 2024, 10:14 PM:
Yep Vic. there always a gimmick with those guys. But what I meant was his hand was all black before he even started to shoot so yeah, he had to be practicing for the camera as well.
So you been using those S&W on coyotes as well or just use them for comp.?
Edit to add Bob did a show using a colt 45 also.
[ February 14, 2024, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 14, 2024, 10:35 PM:
https://youtu.be/vwY9N8SfkSQ?si=xj-oWr2FlZQsOOnX
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 15, 2024, 12:01 AM:
First off Vic forgive me here I have no bad feelings or hate for you just saying is all. When I first met you thought you was just another cool dude to hang with lots of knowledge when you wanted to share it with others, but admit I liked Tim B. just little more cause he was a rifleman.
The last few years I got into using thermals for coyote calling and if you go to any of those forums it's just a brand war mostly going on. Supposedly the best thermal is a Trijicon because the military also uses them but for their own reasons. They sell for over 10K.
I have a buddy in law enforcement that calls coyotes and uses one, his mom bought it for him. Thing is with that thermal is it also suffers from fog or high humidity nights, no way to get around that no matter what brand you have. Its is a little more operator friendly compared to other brands but that's about it and other companies also carry a good warranty. Some guys like to take pictures or film their hunts with them and that's where the Trijicon shines I guess if a guy is into all that. The Trijicon is also smaller and more compact and most likely why Military chose it to begin with but just because it's approved by military don't mean it's the best, just means it fits their application/spec.s is all. Someone probably got a nice kickback as well getting military to buy them.
I use a ATN thor4 they have a track recorded like fox-pro, ship it out to the buyers and they will fix any issues latter when sales slowdown. LOL I chose to buy a refurbished thermal which had any issues already fixed and got it at a much lower price and no complaints so far it does what its suppose to just maybe not as perfect as the Trijicon and I paid 75% less for it. Another good thermal is the Iray TL-35 v2 bolt which had great reviews and it has a pretty good picture long as the weather is nice, I paid 600.00 more for that thermal, takes nice vid.s but when weather gets bad its not so friendly compared to my thor.
Wind blowing tonight and its snowing finally so I couldn't get out calling tonight so sorry for all the rambling. LOL
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 15, 2024, 08:08 AM:
Shazam! LONGEST POST-TO DATE!
Now if we can get (both him and TA) to use paragraphs, to space out his posts and make them easier to read, that would be swell! Anyway, so you have been in Kalifornia twice, then?
You know, I have family in AZ and they all act like crossing that river into the People's Republik is worse than sneaking into North Korea in a clown suit, just to be sure you are noticed.
And yet, Arizona is becoming Californicated daily and weekly and it won't be long before we won't be able to tell the difference.
I only say this to annoy hard core AZ residents, (or citizens) to differentiate them from the wetbacks.
Good hunting. El Bee
PS see how those paragraph thingies work?
edit: I'm flabbergasted to see TA use paragraphs, above!
What a day this has been, TA using paragraphs!
And, Victor making the longest post in memory!
REJOICE, PEANUT GALLERY!
PPS
where's ko ko?
Hello?
Sage words of wisdom,
where are you?
Good hunting. El Bee
[ February 15, 2024, 08:19 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 15, 2024, 08:30 AM:
Also, big revelation above. Not only does Victor use TWO Smith & Wesson revolvers, he has one a conventional 6 shot and now we know that he has an 8 shot model.
That has to make a huge difference when speed counts! and full moon clips seems almost like cheating? Huge advantage over a regular 6 shot speedloader.
Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks! Still-he must polish the hell out of those chambers!
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 15, 2024, 09:04 AM:
they have a chamber solvent for wax build up? or does it just melt after each shot and then run onto there hands/gun??
[ February 15, 2024, 09:04 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 15, 2024, 11:02 AM:
Question for Vic. Back when you did the F-P prostaff contest or what have you I think you called in 100 coyotes or more. Did you use just prey distress sounds or coyote vocals as well???
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on February 15, 2024, 05:48 PM:
Im a mere recreational predator hunter, never been a member of a ProStaff for any call company. I participated in FPs hunt contest 2 years in a row, with my only impetus being, I wanted to kill more predators than one of the cocky guys that always won the contest. That of course never happened, he beat me two years running, sonofabitch was just better at it than I was, but it was fun trying.
Simply to much work thats for sure. I worked my ass off and spent to many days afield, and subsequently it just pegged my fun meter. My best year in the contest I did kill 109 coyotes as well as a handfull of fox and bobcats.
I have five sounds on my favorite list, numbered 1,2,3,4 and 5 they are the only 5 sounds Ive used over the last 20 years and never utilize the other hundred odd sounds the call has on it.
I have an old Johnny Stewart jackrabbit distress, a FP jackrabbit, a coyote death cry(whatever the hell that is), a Johnny Stewart gray fox fight sound and my absolute go-to sound for coyotes, a pirated WT cottontail distress, which has probably accounted for 90% of the coyotes Ive ever called.
So to answer your question, I only use one coyote vocalization, and rarely use that. If I call a pair or multiples, I will use it after smacking a coyote or two, then hit it. It has paid off enough times I keep it in the list of five.
[ February 15, 2024, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: Az-Hunter ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 15, 2024, 09:52 PM:
Sounds simple enough and over 100 coyotes still dam good for your area and your age. Agree also it takes a lot of work, time and money to put up those kinds of numbers. Coyote death cry just a guess but perhaps a spin-off of an adult coyote in distress.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 15, 2024, 11:27 PM:
I don't know anything about a FP hunt contest? What the hell is it?
Good hunting. El Bee
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