This is topic Bill Martz, open invitation in forum Calls and Gear forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.


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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 25, 2008, 09:10 AM:
 
Hey Bill. I have been following the FCC discusion over at PM Inc. and would really like to know your opinion of the statements by JoshT.

As you are aware, this is the only message board where you aren't banned, so if you have any opinions or observations about Foxpro, Minaska or any other competitor, I'm sure our members would appreciate your special perspective.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on November 25, 2008, 10:51 AM:
 
He has a phone number, call him and personally invite him to come here. I would love to see him on HM.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 25, 2008, 11:50 AM:
 
He's a member here. I'm not calling him but the invite is genuine and sincere. Huntmasters has always been fair with Bill. He makes a good product but his people skills always get him in trouble.

Come on Bill. Crawl out from behind the curtain.

JoshT, same invitation is open to you.
 

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Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on November 25, 2008, 11:51 AM:
 
Yup he still has a telephone, an email address and a Huntmasters membership. I believe he's traveling this week... and also seems to have lost the desire to stir you guys up over the last couple years.

Out of curiousity- where has he been banned that you and I and Higgens and Carlson haven't Leonard? The entertainment value of him stopping in to answer your questions would be phenomenal. If he doesn't, maybe you should give him a call?
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 25, 2008, 07:39 PM:
 
I have been reading over on PMS. (how true!)

Man, they sure have their noses up Foxpro's butt.

One of the more interesting comments was by TA, pointing out that Martz is banned, so how else is he supposed to address a concern? I don't care if he has a financial motive; SHIT, they all do!

All that self-righteous indignation by the leg humpers, WOW, you would think they had been sold the Brooklyn Bridge!

I just can't believe all the cheerleading that goes on over there? That Koolaid must be some tasty shit?

I'm still wondering why Foxpro had to delay their response until their investigative army of operatives (PM STAFF) came back with a positive hit?

Still, in all, I don't really see the harm done. Did JoshT raise some provocative questions, or not? What the hell is it with the censorship over there? Why are they afraid of information?

Earth to Bill. over

[ November 25, 2008, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on November 25, 2008, 09:59 PM:
 
If that was bill he did bring up a good point about the FP remotes.. It would'nt be a problem here but the hunters in AZ and NM and texas would have some issues...
 

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Posted by Bill Martz (Member # 378) on November 26, 2008, 12:38 AM:
 
Hello Boys

I can't promise that I will be nice, but I will promise as usual that I will only make truthfull statements. Considering that their are some among you people that don't like to hear the truth because it tends to remind them of their lack of life skills.

1-I didn't post anything on the forum that you are referring to.

2-The person that authored the post (josh t) was technically 100% correct in his post. I do not know him. The reason the members of that board became upset is because they lack the brain power to understand anything that the man posted.

3-I brought the statements that were directed toward me that were posted by some of their "moderators" to the attention of their management. I told them that if they don't correct their posts, they will go down faster than a pig in mud.

4-I do many things with my life. Wildlife callers are not the only product or service we provide. I also travel about half of the year.

5-The FoxPro and Minaska people have become an irritation to me. In the near future, we will release new products that will at minimum reduce their sales to a trickle. There is absolutely no mental challenge by our competitors in this field.
That's why I do so many other things with my life.

5-Now that you got facts, how about we just start riling each other up.

Bill Martz
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 26, 2008, 12:50 AM:
 
Welcome back, Bill.

Don't be so anti social. This is neutral ground and I know that you can hold your own on the issues.

So, where would you like to start?
 

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Posted by Semp (Member # 3074) on November 26, 2008, 03:44 AM:
 
"As you are aware, this is the only message board where you aren't banned,..........."

Bill Martz is not banned at Fins and Fur.

http://www.finsandfur.net/forums/
 

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Posted by Alaskan Yoter (Member # 169) on November 26, 2008, 05:05 AM:
 
Looks to be a bunch of leg humping mods/admins protecting their number one cash cow of fame, a few future up and coming mods (Probably already been contacted), several legit posters with replies and questions and one crazy nut call maker in a pair tree.

I could care less one way or the other, as PM has just became a big circus with a bunch of looney clowns running it, and if your post doesn't meet their approvel it will by time they edit it or delete all together.
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on November 26, 2008, 06:18 AM:
 
Hi Bill. So do you have a twin brother named Josh? He would be the nice one. He was a perfect gentleman on PM. Didn't make any strafing runs or tell the general populace that they were all brain-dead.
Good to see you here.
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on November 26, 2008, 07:16 AM:
 
Come on Rich. The writing styles are so similar, it is scary LOL
JoshT says:

quote:

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I appologize if this ruffles your feathers, it's just simple logic to me

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quote:

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some among you people that don't like to hear the truth because it tends to remind them of their lack of life skills.

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Posted by Bofire (Member # 221) on November 26, 2008, 08:23 AM:
 
Welcome Bill! I really enjoyed the JoshT post on PM. I like reading about things that I am totally ignorant of.
So are you bringing out some new callers? from your post it sounds like you might be.
Once again welcome, and I look forward to reading your posts and maybe learning some new things!!
Carl
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 26, 2008, 09:06 AM:
 
So, what gave you away? Stu Farish examined stool samples, says you are guilty, case closed.

Is Foxpro a radio company, or not?
 

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Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on November 26, 2008, 11:03 AM:
 
Good to see you posting Bill! Who ever Josh T is really made my heard hurt with information.

I can't wait to see PM's response to what you said.

There is also a thread going about this at F-N-F as someone stated.

Hope this all gets cleared up for you soon.

Can't wait to see your new products and I need one of those Night hunting videos!!!!!
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on November 26, 2008, 11:35 AM:
 
Some of the "people" (admin) on PMS need to get a life.

Some of them live to catch the "long been banned", can you imagine the time they must spend looking for the culprit.

Who really gives a shit who posted what, as long as it IS information and was in good taste.

Their TOS looks to be written by drunk third graders in alberta.

But then, when the PMS spokesman (redfrog) is a leghumper for FP what can you really expect?

Buttholes like them have the same mentality that got that DemocRat elected.
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on November 26, 2008, 12:08 PM:
 
Howdy Bill, how have you been? My posts on PM can be pulled if they want to, but everything I stated is truthful, especially the data about your website caller comparison. You really should update that thing to reflect some current information, some of those companies are no longer in business. Also, why in the world are you making your callers with the Linx 418Mhz unit when you have "multiple" FCC certs for the FRS radios? I can't even imagine going to the 418Mhz unit when you have all of those FRS units ready to go. I'll cheer for them all, even the WT's, because each caller has their strengths and they all work. If anybody saw my collection of WT's they'd probably think I was part owner, WT Kool-aid drinker, or something like that. Either way, maybe Bill will address my honest questions with a logical response and stay on track. It'll either be that or a full out attack on me, which is fine, I can handle it. I'd just like to hear the answers to my legitimate questions.
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on November 26, 2008, 04:27 PM:
 
The speculation is all fine and grand, but in the end what it will really come down to is the damn thing will either work or it won't. I'm betting it will.

And the day that Bill Martz puts FoxPro out of business, I'll dance naked with my pet coyote down main street in Gillette.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 26, 2008, 05:50 PM:
 
I heard you do that anyways, most Saturday nights?
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on November 26, 2008, 10:32 PM:
 
Leonard,
I commend you on allowing Martz to stay on your forum. I hope he'll take the time to answer my legitimate questions. I don't think anybody out there has any problems with the quality of the WT product. The problems are almost always about the guy who runs the operation. Actually, I take that back, maybe he isn't the only one running that ship anymore.
http://www.portfolio.com/resources/company-profiles/Wildlife-Technologies-764547
Bill, who's in charge over there? If it's somebody else, maybe I'll call him and order one direct.
 

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Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on November 27, 2008, 06:19 AM:
 
Just a quick glance at your link tells me that the info is old. I will let Bill answer if he chooses. Or I could be wrong.
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on November 27, 2008, 08:24 AM:
 
Thanks Mike, I don't ever remember hearing anything about one of his old pro-staff guys being a part owner. Also, ask him what the new FCC ID for that new non-antenna remote is he has on his website. Again, they should all be playing by the same set of rules. Maybe I'm in left field on him needing to re-certify that remote. I'll check with FCC next week and see how they interpret it. You all have a good Thanksgiving and don't eat too much.
 

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Posted by Bofire (Member # 221) on November 27, 2008, 09:13 AM:
 
I am so confused, is Tundra Wookie Josh T?
Carl
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 27, 2008, 09:21 AM:
 
I think he's snowcamo, but whatever?
 

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Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on November 27, 2008, 09:23 AM:
 
Peter, How can we not eat to much?

Bill also needs a shopping cart on his site. So I can buy stuff (like the night hunting vid) and maybe an updated caller when they come out. Instead of calling with the phone. Honestly I always decide to buy stuff on weekends or late at night. I hate having to wait till business hours to order, i am either at work or with the kids<--- 2years old and 10 months old, and tend to not have time to think of me.

Just a suggestion from a HAPPY customer.
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on November 27, 2008, 12:41 PM:
 
Bofire,
I'm snowcamoman from the other forums. I hope you're all having a great Thanksgiving. The riling up isn't all that I thought it would be though.
Mike, get yourself one of those new remotes, you need one. See if you can get the old 2 minute Coyote sequence too while you're ordering too, it's probably got $200 worth of individual sounds on the thing. I've picked out about 5 individual "new" sounds that are now renamed to some estrus chirp or something like that. Piece (of Pie) out ya'll.
 

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Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on November 27, 2008, 07:16 PM:
 
Wow, just read on another site about WT's new caller coming out. It sounds like the one I already saw and heard a while ago!

If it is, it will be a cool little gadget for sure! I can't wait to see it on the web-page.

Come on Bill! I am trying to save money, not spend it.
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on November 27, 2008, 07:30 PM:
 
It's about time that WT get on board with a programmable unit. They made them back in the 2001-2004 time-frame, but found out that people actually knew how to program the things and quit making them. Imagine tha..... the customers actually were able to think for themselves. By the sounds of it, these new WT's might actually be purchased at retail stores too. I wonder if I can call and get some customer service with my order of new WT? Maybe the new remote is using a FRS radio and gets the 1 plus mile range too like the old callers. Why is it that some have a great product, and then strip it down to an inferior unit while other companies are improving theirs? I hope you all enjoyed your Turkeys and stuffin'. I'm stuffed and working on another guy's WT at the moment, so you all take it easy.
 

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Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on November 27, 2008, 07:53 PM:
 
I never saw no programmable unit so I know nothing about that.

Man, I can;t wait!!!!
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on November 27, 2008, 08:13 PM:
 
Maybe it's not a programmable. If it's sold at retail stores, how are people going to pick their sounds? Maybe there's a "canned" list that'll come on them and then you have to send it in to get more added. Mike, get over there and find out the entire story or call this turboranger guy who says he has seen one and ask him. You'd think that Martz would come on here and actually talk about a new product and it's features, rather than let somebody else start spouting off about it. Very strange form of advertising if you ask me.
 

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Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on November 28, 2008, 06:05 AM:
 
I know of Turbo ranger. He bought a WT of my recomondation a while back, ever since he has been hooked. I saw his post on PM and I saw Craplosers comment " lurking since 06" Turbo ranger travels alot for work and has a very busy time with building a house here in NH and trying to see his son, thats why the "lurking" and not posting. No funny business going on about it, Turboranger loves his WT and is excited about the new line up.

Secondly Peter, I will not just show up looking for info, I don't feel comfortable doing that. As much as I do wanna know about the new products for my self, I have to wait like anyone else.

I did see a new product a while ago when I was there, the caller was just sitting there and I said hey whats that? He showed me, I compared its size to other callers and said, holy crap that is cool, when can I have one.

I know nothing about remotes or ranges or anything like that.

I have said this before, Bill has always been kind to me, answered my questions and showed me some of his crazy gear.

His wife makes a mean cup of coffee, and just LOVES my little girl when I take her over with me.

Other than that,we only talk when I call with a question or to tell him I will be over for sounds.

Edit: Why don't we just wait to see what the new caller has to offer. It could suprise you. We can speculate all we want but only Bill knows.

[ November 28, 2008, 06:13 AM: Message edited by: browning204 ]
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on November 28, 2008, 08:36 AM:
 
Mike,
No worries, I'm sure it'll all be available soon. It just seems awful strange doesn't it, that somebody starts trashing another companies advanced product just prior to their own release of an "older" technology product? If the new model has half the range of his old FRS unit, is programmable and has a decoy, it'd be an upgrade. If I'll be able to download sounds from their website and get some customer service on the thing too that'd be an another added bonus. I'll just sit tight on my trusty old 2010 models and multiple FRS board remotes from WT, in case they need more proof about abiding by FCC rules.
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on November 28, 2008, 10:10 AM:
 
"I'll just sit tight on my trusty old 2010 models and multiple FRS board remotes from WT, in case they need more proof about abiding by FCC rules."

I would too, it's by far the best caller you own!!

[ November 28, 2008, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: Dan Carey ]
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on November 28, 2008, 07:14 PM:
 
Dan,
Now that right there is funny..
"I would too, it's by far the best caller you own!!"

They collect dust nowadays. Between them not initiating or simply locking up, they drive me crazy, especially fighting those cords. The cords get destroyed at -30ºF. I've had to replace two of my own years ago and several other guys from up here have had them "upgraded" by me. The best thing to do with those old WT's is to customize them into a setup like the Minaska UO in a pelican case. The Scorpion and UO get used quite a bit though. The only thing good about the old 2010's is the ability to get the sounds off of them without having to record them into my computer. If you want a good deal on one, let me know. It'd be an upgrade from that 2030 model
Or if you really want a classic, you can buy my old MP3 WT. Just Joshin' ya, I can't sell that one, it has humor value to me.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 30, 2008, 11:08 AM:
 
Hey Amigo. (snocamo) I hate to do this because it proves that I have lurked occasionally on monster, just as I am guilty of occasionally following a link to PMS when curious about some bullshit.

Okay, anyway. I completely understood what you wrote about repairing callers, especially as it relates to insulation on wiring that fractures in extreme cold. Fortunately, there is some wire that is designed for cold climates and I know that a retrofit is needed (required, actually) for extreme conditions, like below -25º.

what the boys in the padded room want to know is the level of your experience? They claim that you have admitted to only one or possibly two coyotes killed, in your career? If so, the feeling is that your general statements about hunting predators and equipment, (like game callers, for instance) lacks credibility?

Whatever your career body count, there is no need to be embarassed. There is always somebody somewhere that has more, but that's not the most important thing, if you can back up your statements. I, (and other fair minded people) won't believe someone because he has 100 more kills than you have, based solely on that criteria. That seems obvious.

Care to comment?

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on November 30, 2008, 12:26 PM:
 

quote:

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The only thing good about the old 2010's is the ability to get the sounds off of them without having to record them into my computer.

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Is that why youre name maybe on the List and you have to fix them youreself??
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on November 30, 2008, 01:45 PM:
 
WT has updated their site and have 3 New models comeing out in Dec. Great!
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on November 30, 2008, 03:32 PM:
 
Leonard,
No problem asking me about hunting, I get out into the arctic as often as possible during the winter. Most of my hunting is within 200 miles of Fairbanks due to day hunting and hotel/motels up here in the wintertime being shut down. I don't kill a bunch of predators, which is the norm up here from all the people I've chatted with. I really don't know what an Alaskan "average" would be, so I have no gauge to measure against. I can't compare myself to California/Nevada/Texas guys because it looks like an infestation down there in some areas. Leonard, ask a couple of the "padded room" guys what an average interior Alaskan caller percentage might be??? No fly out trips either, that's out of my budget. In the past two weeks I'm two for two, if that means anything. Here's a response I had to possibly somebody in that "padded room" about kills.
http://www.finsandfur.net/forums/index.php?topic=4971.0

Who is in that "padded room" by the way? If you know skoal38, or if he's reading, maybe he'll grace us with his presence. He went off the radar after that post on FnF and I hope I didn't offend him. Anyways, I'm not a "senior" predator hunter, since I've only been at it for about 4-5 years now. I've called in a lot of Lynx, but cannot shoot them due to the very short season we have in our unit. If you would like, I can send you some photos, but I don't like posting them on the forums. I guess if my credibility in being able to judge a good e-caller is based on number of kills, one of those SouthWestern boys would have me beat in a good couple weeks. I'm an engineer by training and am able to pick apart any of the callers and see what makes them tick. We know that they'll all call animals, so it's not so much about effectiveness. I know everybody will cheer for their own Ford/Chevy though, so there's no stopping that. Anybody can look at speaker specs, file formats, DAC's..etc. and figure out what is the best on paper. I've fixed,customized, and tinkered with most of the manufacturers callers to fit my needs here in the cold. I've fixed up guys from Montana to Michigan with what I've found works. They too have been really happy with the changes I've done for their callers and it's helped them call more game they tell me. The major changes are to the WT's since the owner will not do what most customers request. Minaska and FoxPro however have built customized callers in whatever configuration somebody wants. I don't know what else I can say, but I'll keep at what I'm doing and everybody else can keep on with what they're doing. It's not the electronic callers that are the big problem from what I've seen, but rather a few people who have rubbed people the wrong way in the past. As you can tell, I have some serious animosity towards Bill Martz. What kind of owner of a company threatens somebody that they're going to "see" them when they're in town? Honestly, that right there should go to show anybody what kind of deranged person they're dealing with at WT. Martz still hasn't answered any of my questions I've posted, which is probably wise. Anytime somebody wants to come up and show me how it's done, is more than welcomed, seriously. I have a couple snow machines and plenty of cold weather gear. I'd love to see that magic bullet for the north country. Maybe I could be killing 10 to 20 dogs/cats a week if I did something different. Any suggestions? Please note the sheer number of trappers and traplines that run 24-7 up here as well.

TA17Rem,
I'm on the list because I purchased the same recording equipment that Martz uses and when other manufacturer's asked me what I was using, I told them. A couple of the big manufacturer's have my sounds in their libraries and apparently work for guys from some of the posts I've read and sounds that are working for them. Also, Martz would never customize one of his callers the way I want it. I'd probably get some lame excuse like "you don't know what you're taling about". That's been a couple years though and the WT's really do collect dust. I took one out the old MP3 player model this weekend for giggles and it still works. Sounds just as good as a 24bit model I'd wager. I checked out those new WT's. I don't see any mention of being able to program sounds. I sure hope they didn't make that mistake yet again. I'm not sure how WT claims their sounds win "hands down"? Maybe they need to get some of the FoxPro Mark II sounds and check them out. I did notice that they took down the old caller comparison chart and now simply have one showing what looks like a FoxPro FX and their 2030MS model. Funny how WT's remote simply has "more range". The range now goes from 200 to 1000 yards, that's over 400 yards more than the prior model. I sure hope that thing was re-certified with FCC. If the WT remote is using the same Linx RF chip, how in the world do they simply have "more range"? It's not from experience working with the Linx chips, FoxPro's been using and designing around the Linx RF for years. Maybe Martz can step in and explain that one for me. Maybe they're using a new RF chip or a FHSS or FRS instead. Like I said, if they use one of their "multiple" FRS licenses, I'll eat crow and apologize. I know this will probably make the Dan Carey's and browning204's mad, but it shouldn't. I'm not "leg humping" FoxPro, Minaska, Western Rivers, Kanati Tek, Johnny Stewart, Cass Creek, Power Dogg, Dennis Kirk. I just can't stand the owner of the other company they own callers from. A simple email from Martz with an apology would do and then maybe I'd give it up. Until then, I'll stand on what he's said to me and wait for the answers to my quesions (any of them). Are we still riling each other up?????
 

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Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on November 30, 2008, 04:13 PM:
 
Snowcammo = Tundra Wookie,,,,, Learning as we go along here.....

From a technical and hunting standpoint - a very fair evaluation. Thank you, snow!

I'm sure the Martz crowd is squalling, how could they possibly compete?
 

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Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on November 30, 2008, 04:59 PM:
 
www.wildlifetech.com/pages/product.html

They are finally here!

bet there will be alot of FP's for sale in the classified ads. all over the net!
 

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Posted by rainshadow1 (Member # 899) on November 30, 2008, 05:30 PM:
 
" " " Maybe I could be killing 10 to 20 dogs/cats a week if I did something different. Any suggestions? Please note the sheer number of trappers and traplines that run 24-7 up here as well. " " "

What kind of Coyote numbers do the Interior trappers bring in compared to, say... Wyoming, Peter? I'd say the numbers just aren't there. Like here where I live. Lemons - - - Lemonade. I have Cougars and some Bobbies. And you know exactly why I have a WT2030 hanging over my shoulder!

That little unit is cool as heck!
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on November 30, 2008, 06:44 PM:
 
rainshadow,
That's a great analogy to compare numbers. I have a few friends who run long traplines. They will usually pick up between 6 to 10 Yotes a year in Fox snares or wolf traps. The one guy is running several "loops" on his trapline that are over 30 miles. I don't know what a lower 48 trapper would get, that'd be interesting to hear their numbers. I know exactly why you have that 2030 Rainshadow, those are good ML sounds on that thing. I need to get in touch with you about a custom knife too. I'll email you what I'm searching for.
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on November 30, 2008, 07:47 PM:
 
Leonard,

What kinda (coyote killing) qualifications does the guy need, to work on electronics?

It's not like he's building hand calls.

Tundra Wookie,

That's a joke on me, not on you.

I don't think understanding a game, and being good at it, are mutually exclusive.

I've only killed a few coyotes myself, but I'm more than qualified to make calls, and sounds with them.

Trappers have the opportunity to catch animals that couldn't be shot at, in some areas, and vice versa, so the numbers would belie the relevance of calling (especially around here).
Longlining (with conventional methods, if we could) in the wet part of the west, like where Steve and I live, would probably produce fifty coyotes for every one called and fired on, whereas crossing the mountains to the desert is likely to set it near even.

As it is we are limited to cage trapping for fur, so nobody ever catches a coyote.

Krusty
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on November 30, 2008, 07:49 PM:
 
Well, they sure don't look like flashlights, but I like them anyway.
 

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Posted by Bill Martz (Member # 378) on December 01, 2008, 07:06 AM:
 
Hello Boys

Sorry for not posting much but I am usually busy with other tasks. In this post I will set the record straight regarding Peter Marvin (snowcamo, tundra boogie, etc).

Peter Marvin is an ex customer of our company. He lives in Fairbanks, AK. As we have several hundred customers in Alaska, it became very easy for me to get info about places and people. Peter Marvin is a civil engineer not an electrical engineer. I don't know what school he got his degree from if any but I do know he works for the local government there. Another parasitic hack. If his education had any merit attached to it a government job would have been the last job to choose. But then again, if you don't have what it takes you settle for what you can get.

Peter is a diminutive, skinny, weasel of a man. This description comes from first hand accounts by people who know him. When he became a customer he called us often for advice on many subjects.

Strike 1:
Example: He wanted to know what equipment we use to record wildlife. I gave him the info he wanted along with much advice on how to use the equipment. He also seemed overly interested in our remote control technology. A few weeks later I discovered that FoxPro was now using the same recording equipment that we were. I wonder how they gained the info to figure that out by themselves?

Strike 2:
Also, at that time we were the only company in this industry to use frs technology intergrated into our products. Lo and behold, the same group morons sent one of our transmitters to the FCC because they misinterpeted our license requirements and thought they could damage our company. The FCC gave us a call to tell me that someone was trying to create a problem for us. The transmitter in question was perfectly legal.

Strike 3:
I also found out through customers that Peter Marvin was recording our sounds and passing them around.

Weasel (Peter Marvin), I did say I would visit you when I reach Fairbanks. This year I was in Nome and spent to much time there to visit you. This coming year I will be in Fairbanks and I will visit you. I know it will be hard to locate you as weasels have a lot of hiding places. But I will let it be known to you associates what type of person you are.

Lastly:
Do you think you have the right to ask any company for info regarding that companies operation? What a fool you are. Just a little man with no life. No wonder you spend all your waking hours on the internet as you have no where or nobody else to share it with.

For everybody:
WT and it's associate companies have 8 FCC certifications for various transmitters. According to Peter Marvin, If you incorporate a linx chip into your design you will only get the same tx range as anyone else that uses the same linx chip. That could be true for an engineer at your level of ability but that is not true for engineers of our ability.

Leonard:
I'am sorry about this but it had to be sorted out. I will not post about this again. now it's time to get back to the fun posts. I almost forgot to say hello to Rich.

Bill Martz
 

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Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on December 01, 2008, 08:31 AM:
 
Good to see you here Bill, your post are always a lot of fun! Watch the mail this week.

This snowwoogie guy reminds me of Clever Gary!
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on December 01, 2008, 08:59 AM:
 
Ah yes, there is the customer service orientated Martz that I haven't heard from in awhile. Bill, get the facts straight or don't come to the ball field to play. I'm neither a civil or electrical engineer, I'm a mechanical engineer. Also, I don't work for the "local" government up here. When you get that one figured out, let me know. What kind of engineer are you Bill? Your callers are outsourced to a German company. If you're so intelligent, why don't you do it all "in house" as you like to claim? Bill, do you really know what a "weasel" is? Is it a Mink, Muskrat or a Weasel? I'm just asking because you have that sound re-named on several of your customers callers? For a company that has all of their sounds correctly named, there are quite a few that are renamed.... call it what it is!!! Let's play ball now. Regarding Strike #1, yep, you told me what you used to record sounds and later on down the road I purchased the same type of equipment. Then when I was talking to other manufacturer's (not just FoxPro), I told them what I had. Does that really matter Bill? Honestly, if you think that a Sound Devices and Sennheiser is the secret wand, you need to get out more. Strike #2- Bill, who is it that sent in your FRS remote? It wasn't me, so you can get off your high horse if you want to lay that one on me. Either way, if you still have all of those licenses from FCC to use the FRS units, why not just make another one? You like to be on top of the game, so why not stay on top with a FRS? Strike #3- I record your sounds from my WT callers for my own use, not to dole out to others. Bill, any customer has the right to ask a manufacturer whatever they want. It's up to the person on the end of the line (that would be you) to answer or not. I cannot help it if you are not smart enough to keep your mouth shut. Do your 8 FCC licenses include those "multiple" FRS units? If so, then why are you still using that 418Mhz Linx chip? Maybe there's some "loophole" I'm still missing. Maybe with your genius like intelligence you could get one of those FRS licensed again. So Bill, what exactly are you coming to "visit" me for? It's surely not for some customer service on all of my WT's, I got that covered. Your childish tactics and resorting to name calling and insults should only go to show other people the type of person you are. To threaten somebody on a public forum just goes to show how foolish you really are. Nice new callers by the way Bill, are they programmable? If not, that just means more of your customers are going to call me and ask how to get their sounds off of the things.

Leonard,
Thanks for the great forum where even Martz is still allowed to post. I have my dose of humor for the day now.
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on December 01, 2008, 09:59 AM:
 
Bill, you crack me up! Great post, sorry subject!

[ December 01, 2008, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: Dan Carey ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 01, 2008, 10:04 AM:
 
Thanks for the compliment, you "diminutive, skinny, weasel" Bill has called me a knucklehead, in the past; I never got over it. sniff, sniff

Good hunting. LB

edit: haha! Carey misspelled another word!

[ December 01, 2008, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on December 01, 2008, 10:10 AM:
 
"edit: haha! Carey misspelled another word!"

I was laughing so loud I couldn't see the screen..
 

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Posted by Scott F. (Member # 1961) on December 01, 2008, 10:32 AM:
 
TundraWookie - regardless of what the masses say you are holding your own so far in this conversation and have brought to the forefront several interesting points. If Bill will cease with the name calling and threats hopefully he'll address them.

Mr. Marvin- please PM me through another forum. I have a few questions. I am Hyperwrx elsewhere. Thanks.

[ December 01, 2008, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: Scott F. ]
 

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Posted by Bill Martz (Member # 378) on December 01, 2008, 11:09 AM:
 
Scott F. said "TundraWookie - regardless of what the masses say you are holding your own so far in this conversation and have brought to the forefront several interesting points."

What might those interesting points be Scott F. If you have something to say, be a man and just say it.

Bill Martz
 

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Posted by Scott F. (Member # 1961) on December 01, 2008, 12:24 PM:
 

quote:

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What might those interesting points be Scott F. If you have something to say, be a man and just say it.

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Can't you read the other guy's post? The interesting points being denoted by the words strike #1, strike #2, and strike #3. He did a fairly good job of detailing them. Do I need to translate for the duller pennies in the cup?

What I had to say to him in private isn't a concern of yours but please, keep talking. I always yawn when I am interested.
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on December 01, 2008, 12:43 PM:
 
Scott F,
Feel free to email me at snowcamoman@gmail.com anytime, we can chat. I'll respond to whatever you send my way. Apparently you've perked Bill's curiosity. If being a "man" means childish name calling and threats, I'd go to email's with it though.

Bill,
For goodness sakes, all you have to do is answer some simple question and you'd probably gain a little bit of respect. Not much, but maybe some.
1. Why isn't your new caller using a FRS radio?
2. Why do you have multiple sounds in your library named different things?
3. Does your new caller simply "hold" 1000 sounds, or can a person actually have 1000 sounds on it and control them from the remote?
4. Is your new caller "programmable"?
5. Do you make it a habit to threaten customers?

I know some of these questions are pretty generic, but other's I'd like an honest answer to. How do you get around this response from FCC regarding how your old FRS remotes were used?

Response:
Part 95.193 of our rules require that the primary use of FRS is two-way voice communication with another person. One way, non voice communication, digital data, tone activation transmission are only permitted as ancillary functions and limited to the requirements under part 95.193 (a) (1) and (2). Your modification would render the device unable to be used for the primary use of two-way voice communication with another person and could not be granted under the FRS rules. Further, per part 95.104(b), you must not make any internal modification to an FRS unit. Any such modification would cancel the FCC certification and void your authority to operate the unit in the FRS band.

The second part of your inquiry implies that others are currently marketing or operating certified radios radios as you have proposed. Given your description, they seem to be operating the devices illegally. You may directly contact FCC/OET/Lab Auditing and Compliance Branch. Please include as much detail as possible: nature of violation, FCC ID(s), transmitter operating locations and marketing information, model numbers. Also include your full name, address, and phone contact info. The FCC will investigate these operations and may take further enforcement actions.

Everybody knows that you used the FRS unit back in the day for your old remotes. I have no issues with that, but what about the 4 different FRS radios that I have in my old remotes? You told me that that's only a "technicality". Is that how FCC would see that scenario? Don't you have to re-certify each unit under FCC regulations? If I'm wrong, show me the FCC regulations regarding that and I'll be more than happy to say I'm sorry, I was wrong. I have no problem with you being able to do it back then, but what about now? I honestly feel sadened that so many of your customers come to me for help Bill. Most of them are afraid to take a verbal bashing from you when they call with problems. I'm sure that your personality is shining through from your posts too. If you feel like you're going to answer this post, maybe you should eat a bit of humble pie and be sincere and professional about it. Everybody knows why you've "blacklisted" me, so let's get over that and on to the serious issues. Stick to answering the questions and addressing the issues and everybody will learn something. We'd all like to learn what you have to say, but say it like a normal human, not some billigerent child.

Leonard,
You're running one nice ship here, thanks for the opportunity to post.
 

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Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on December 01, 2008, 12:55 PM:
 
Good thread, caught it as I was skimming around.

The real issue is, I still need the WT Night hunting video!
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on December 01, 2008, 12:58 PM:
 
browning204,
Bill is probably sending me one for being such a loyal customer. I'll send you my copy after I'm done watching it.
 

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Posted by Bill Martz (Member # 378) on December 01, 2008, 12:59 PM:
 
Scott F.

"What I had to say to him in private isn't a concern of yours but please, keep talking. I always yawn when I am interested."

Well, it only took you 1 1/2 hours to author a 2 sentence post. That's pretty fast for a guy in a perpetual state of yawn. As I said before, Peter Marvin and you were made for each other. Think about it, there are almost 340 million people living in the US and Peter and you found each other. I guess water does seek its' own level.

On a side note. The brilliant Mike Dillion of FoxPro just made another grandiose statement on the leghumpers board. He said "Here is what we will say. First, out of all of the e-call manufacturers, we have more experience with
the 418 MHz frequency than any of them".

If that were the case, why did the Dillons' produce a toy quality wildlife caller using a voice coder circuit (the same circuit used by the toy industry) for 8 years and use 418Mhz for an additional 4 years with poor transmission range. Why does their transmitter become unsynchronized with the caller if you turn off the transmitter before turning off the caller. Maybe they just don't know how to write software very well. By the way, you might not know this but WT developed the first solid state cd quality stand alone audio board in the US back in 1995.

Our rf partner is a regular consultant for Audi, BMW, Semens, and other companies worldwide. I guess the Dillons never venture out of their one block world.

The boys on the leghumpers board talk a good game when no one is allowed to refute their statements. But then again, I suppose people like weasel (leghumpers board moderator) and yourself Scott need a leader to look up to.

Bill Martz

[ December 01, 2008, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: Bill Martz ]
 

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Posted by Scott F. (Member # 1961) on December 01, 2008, 01:02 PM:
 
TundraWookie - you have an email.

Bill - A sharp tongue does not mean you have a keen mind. Sorry, I have a job and can't exchange jabs back and forth with you in a timely manner. I get back to the computer when I can. I don't know TundraWookie beyond what I have read in this forum and just had a question for him. Sorry, there is no conspiracy theory behind the sent email. If you think I am in the FP camp, you obviously don't know me very well, which is just fine by me.

When you posted on PM I found it quite enlightening. You are a pioneer in the e-caller industry and I can respect that but many people think of you as a fool with your rude online antics. I don’t think you are a fool, but what’s my opinion compared to that of thousands of others?

[ December 01, 2008, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: Scott F. ]
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on December 01, 2008, 01:09 PM:
 
Scott F,
I'll check it here in a second.

Bill,
Way to dodge those serious questions, it'll probably take awhile to think about the lies...errr I mean answers to some of them, so no hurry.
 

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Posted by Bill Martz (Member # 378) on December 01, 2008, 01:15 PM:
 
For the AK weasel and the rest of the leghumpers

1. "Why isn't your new caller using a FRS radio?"

Answer: None of your business

2. "Why do you have multiple sounds in your library named different things?"

Answer: They don't

3. "Does your new caller simply "hold" 1000 sounds, or can a person actually have 1000 sounds on it and control them from the remote?"

Answer: Yes to both for the last 4 years.

4. "Is your new caller programmable?"

Answer: Read the info on our website

5. "Do you make it a habit to threaten customers?"

Answer: Only the ones' that deserve it. I'am sure that you have been threatened many time before. That's probably why you're a loner with no friends other than the clones you find on the internet.

"I know some of these questions are pretty generic, but other's I'd like an honest answer to."

Answer: Coming from a liar, you don't really expect an answer do you? Now please take your pills.

Bill Martz
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on December 01, 2008, 01:34 PM:
 
Now you're being halfway civil Bill. Those are good answers, but maybe you can explain a bit more.
1. "Why isn't your new caller using a FRS radio?"

Answer: None of your business

Response: Good solid answer, thanks for clearing that one up. So the underlying tone is.. WT used to have a multi-mile range remote, now they have a 200-1000yard remote, but just choose to not use the FRS. OK, no problem. That's "Light Years" ahead of things if you ask me.

2. "Why do you have multiple sounds in your library named different things?"

Answer: They don't

Response: Don't lie Bill. Unless you changed your sounds around lately, you have multiple sounds re-named. Bobcat Baby and Lynx Baby distress. Muskrat/Weasel... If you want, I can post the filenames and show the exact same soundwaves if it helps jog your memory. Trust me, they do have different names Bill, stop lying.

3. "Does your new caller simply "hold" 1000 sounds, or can a person actually have 1000 sounds on it and control them from the remote?"

Answer: Yes to both for the last 4 years.
Response: Thanks for clearning that one up. How does a user play sound 1000, as opposed to sounds 10 or 100? Just put a zero in front like this 0001, 0010, 0100, 1000???? Just curious.

4. "Is your new caller programmable?"

Answer: Read the info on our website
Response: That sounds like a definite NO to me. Sorry to hear that, you should post that on your comparison page.

5. "Do you make it a habit to threaten customers?"

Answer: Only the ones' that deserve it. I'am sure that you have been threatened many time before. That's probably why you're a loner with no friends other than the clones you find on the internet.

Response: I have lots of friends Bill, many of whom have to act nice to you, but in reality despise you.

"I know some of these questions are pretty generic, but other's I'd like an honest answer to."

Answer: Coming from a liar, you don't really expect an answer do you? Now please take your pills.

Response: I still stand corrected on you being a liar. I'm young and healthy Bill, I don't take any medication. My mind is still sharp and open to ideas, unlike yours. I've proven who the liar is here and if you want to continue down this path, please keep digging your hole. I'm sure you're really helping your sales by lying. Since you're obviously sticking around to read all the posts on forums Bill, maybe you can explain the lawsuit against you from a lawyer in Tennessee? If you don't remember, I can send you a copy of the court order. Just say the word and the riling can keep a rollin' along.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 01, 2008, 01:40 PM:
 
Here I go again, lurking at PMS. I swear, it almost never happens!

Now, look at these schizophrenic replies from the true leaders in leg humping.

What I (your humble servant and, described as a "self stroking cunt" elsewhere) would like to point out is we have on topic and off topic and rude replies and evasive replies and a lot of other stuff, but guess what, no editing, no threats of retaliation, no locking the thread, and no leg humping by a team of moderators with suspect loyalties. Do you guys appreciate what you get for the price of admission?

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=52992591&an=0&page=0#52992591

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=52992608&an=0&page=0#52992608
 

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Posted by Bill Martz (Member # 378) on December 01, 2008, 01:49 PM:
 
Tundra boogie:

Makes you feel bad when someone forces you to look into a mirror and expose yourself to the public. As I said in my first post, you're a diminutive weasel with no "friends" other then the ones' you meet on the web. Trust me, I know your whole life story. Looking forward to meeting you this coming year. Take notice that I sign my posts using my real name. Something a weasel would be embarrassed to do.

Bill Martz
 

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Posted by Bill Martz (Member # 378) on December 01, 2008, 01:53 PM:
 
Leonard, you're a standup guy. Let the good times roll. I just wish Josh T. could find this board. Maybe he and I could could wack 2 weasels at once.

Bill Martz
 

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Posted by Scott F. (Member # 1961) on December 01, 2008, 02:01 PM:
 
It might appear so but I really do not have much of a beef with Bill. As I said, I think he's a pioneer in the field of ecallers and knows his stuff. His brutish manner of dealing with people leaves a lot to be desired but it takes all types I guess.
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on December 01, 2008, 02:04 PM:
 
Bill,
You just can't answer the questions can you? By simply name calling and threatening me Bill, do you honestly think you're proving something? It's gotta drive you crazy to have somebody try to have a semi-intelligent conversation with you. My email box is flooding from your "customers" in response to your personal attack on me. Trust me Bill, you're really helping lose sales on those new callers with your actions here. I'm not afraid to "expose" myself to the public, that's what you're here for apparently. Maybe you could post my Credit Card number too? You better get a new address when you're here next year, I'm moving. Just give me a call when you get to town so I can get my waders out and wade through your lies. You really must be a loser to go through so much to find out my "life history". I'm not acting childish with that title, I sincerely mean it. So are you going to answer the questions Bill, or just keep dodging them? Did you want that court order from Tennessee?
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 01, 2008, 02:19 PM:
 
Teaser alert!

New member approved. I'm just about + he will have something to say on the subject at hand.
 

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Posted by turboranger (Member # 3349) on December 01, 2008, 02:42 PM:
 
Ah so this is where all the fun is!! Nice to find a place where my post won't get whacked. Hey Bill I have been insulted by just too many people on the other sites thinking I was you! Time to put an end to that.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 01, 2008, 02:57 PM:
 
Welcome to The New Huntmasters, turboranger. Glad to have you on board. I hear you have been causing quite a commotion over at PM Inc.?

It's getting as bad as Coyote Gods! Sheesh! These guys are so.......schizophrenic? is that the right word?

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat= 0&Number=52992764&an=0&page=0&gonew=1#UNREAD

[ December 01, 2008, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on December 01, 2008, 03:28 PM:
 
turboranger,
Glad you signed up, maybe you can help shed some light on a few questions. You have a 2030 from what I thought I read in one of your posts. I'm not going to trash the caller, since I have no qualms about the WT callers, just the owner. How do you play sound #1 and sound #10? Do you have over 100 sounds on your caller, and if so, how do you make the jump to sound 100 (0100 I'm guessing)?

Bill,
Wear that name like a badge of honor, because it's only hurting your income. I had two more questions to ask, since you're still researching my other questions.
- Why have you always touted uncompressed sound files, but used a MP3 player in one of your callers?
- How is it that you advertise & sold remote callers prior to your FCC certification on the old FRS units?
Your FCC Certification for the NW6KAS-2000 remote, was done Nov 2, 1998 from the FCC site. On your site I noticed that in 1991 you designed and built a remote control tape based sound system. Then again in 1995-Designed and developed a solid state remote controlled audio player. What FCC certified remote was used to operate these units? If they were a "wired" remote, let me know and that'd answer the question. Thanks.

-Peter Marvin-
snowcamoman@gmail.com
Get in touch with me anytime you have a problem with your old WT, I'll try to fix it up for you. I promise I won't threaten you either.
 

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Posted by turboranger (Member # 3349) on December 01, 2008, 03:35 PM:
 
Hi Leonard glad to meet you. Yeah the gods have scolded me and the PM guys wacked my post. Now that wasn't very nice of them. After this post it will be my second on here does that mean I only have 15 more chances or are you guys cooler than that? Seems like that thread was drawing too much attention for WT so like the media does with the right it just went away. The left side though that's another story wouldn't you say? Schitzaprania yeah thats a good word, I think scared is another.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 01, 2008, 04:11 PM:
 

quote:

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. "Why do you have multiple sounds in your library named different things?"

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quote:

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"Is your new caller programmable?"

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quote:

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Do you make it a habit to threaten customers?"

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quote:

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Only the ones' that deserve it

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Good answer...

You would think that since WT is Bill's business he should be able to run it any he see's fit..
I heard all kinds of rumers about Bill and i still bought a WT from him, its a dam good product to matter what you or any other weasels may think.. You can dig deep down into youre little bag of shit and its not going to change a thing, Bill will still be selling his callers and you won't have one..
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 01, 2008, 04:15 PM:
 
I can't keep up, Tim? I thought you were a Minaska leg humper?
 

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Posted by turboranger (Member # 3349) on December 01, 2008, 04:23 PM:
 

quote:

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turboranger,
Glad you signed up, maybe you can help shed some light on a few questions. You have a 2030 from what I thought I read in one of your posts. I'm not going to trash the caller, since I have no qualms about the WT callers, just the owner. How do you play sound #1 and sound #10? Do you have over 100 sounds on your caller, and if so, how do you make the jump to sound 100 (0100 I'm guessing)?

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Peter when I posted on the PM site I was very careful not to attack others. If you are going to go after Bill with the comments that you make you need to be ready to feel the nuts in his vice sensation. Remember we spoke of that in the other thread on PM. You may recall the
In reference to the number of sounds I have I do have a large number and I don't seem to know what issue you are having. Works pretty well for me thats why I am getting another one. Now you seem to worry about Bill's income...I don't really think Bill is hurting. With the new release of these callers intelligent people that are not biased to one of the other companies are going to be able to look at and see the difference. People may say oh I don't like Bill so I am not going to buy one. Like him or not he's got a hell of a caller. I am betting they will want one, after all they don't take Bill out calling with them only his caller.
Regards
Martin
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on December 01, 2008, 04:24 PM:
 
TA17Rem,
You need to get some more sounds in your library. I have a sound named BOBCATBD.wav and it is the same thing as the Lynx Baby distress. The same holds true for the Muskrat and Weasel (I think that's the sound). In making a "programmable" caller, it'd open up the door for a much larger market of users who already have their own sounds. Not that the non-programmable is a bad unit, just that being able to add custom sounds or 15-20 minute sequences is handy. Bill can run his company any way he wants, but why try to make his unit shine and trash another? Every person has their own sales pitch I guess. I can get one of the new WT's anytime I want TA17Rem, it just takes one phonecall. I'll tinker around with somebody elses instead once they hit the market. I'm not about to give another dollar to Martz. Open up your mind, there are always loopholes to getting things if you try hard enough. The only bags I'm digging into are bags that Martz himself made. If you're a Minaska "leg humper" no problems, I have one of those too and it's a good caller.

Martin,
I have no issues with the WT callers, if you've read my posts. I do have technical questions that Martz fails to answer or ignores completely and just goes off into some childish tantrum of name calling. Either way, I've never said the WT callers are bad. I think it would be nice if they were programmable (like the old 2010 models) and if there was a decoy option, standard with them. That's just me though, other's obviously are happy and successful with them. Can you tell me though on your caller, how you play sound #100? I'm just interested in what the steps above 99 are? Typically with a numberic keypad, it would have to be set up in 4 digits to address 1000. So if I were to want to play sound 99, just push 99 Play. If I want to play sound 999, just push 999 play? How does your remote address sounds above 100? Is a zero added to the jump at sound number at the 100 number ( 0-1-0-0)? I'm not trying to start anything, I'm just interested. If any of you think I'm anti WT, read my posts again. I have absolutely nothing against WT callers, they are a fine product. If Martz has any problems with that statement, he's beyond help. I never made it a personal attack Bill, you did.

[ December 01, 2008, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: TundraWookie ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 01, 2008, 04:40 PM:
 
LOL Lenard. To be honest i like both calling brands. Each one is just a tool for me and they have there place.. Randy Roede took me out abunch of times calling and he used a WT and it was amazeing how he can work the coyotes with it, after that i was sold on the caller..
I've been down the same road as others buying crap that is not up to par and when i do find something thats worth useing i'm not affraid to stand behind it reguardless of what others may think.
Bill dose'nt need my help but every team should have a few cheerleaders. LOL
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 01, 2008, 05:04 PM:
 

quote:

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I never made it a personal attack Bill, you did.

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quote:

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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I never made it a personal attack Bill, you did.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think that's correct, Turbo. Elsewhere, I don't know, but Wookie is asking legit questions. Perhaps none of his business, but he is asking in a more civil manor than Bill. My opinion, FWIW.

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Leonard I am not sure who drew first blood as that was before my time nor do I care. I do see lots of negative post on PM being made and of course Bill can't respond. I am not defending Bill as I know he is very capable and I don't want to blemish his sterling reputation. If someone ruffles his feathers you know whats coming. So the question is why do it? Answer: because people enjoy it. For me I personally don't feel the need to slam other callers as its kind of nice to know the one I have is top notch and if someone feels the same about theirs than thats great!
Alright, as far as how my transmitter works if you want sound 100 hit the "on" button press 1-0-0 and "play".

Joe: Wikipedia Engineer? Thats very adroit of you but is there such an animal?
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on December 01, 2008, 06:41 PM:
 
turboranger,
Thank you for the reply, that's all I was looking for. So to play sound 10, you just push 1-0? Seems like it would be a very "touchy" remote if you make a mistake and type an accidental 0 after a number and then push play. Either way, thanks for the reply that's all I was looking for. If I've ruffled Martz's feathers, it's nothing that he hasn't deserved, trust me. Maybe when he comes here next year, he'll be nice and bring a housewarming gift (1 of a kind programmable KAS-2030 Arctic Model with FRS remote)..
 

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Posted by turboranger (Member # 3349) on December 01, 2008, 06:55 PM:
 
Peter that would be correct with the ten 1-0. Touchy? I haven't seen that... very simple? Absolutely. I do introduce user error do to a sudden brain fart from time to time but if you do its pretty easy to hit the stop button and start over. Someone once told me that its easier to entice a bear with honey than vinegar. I think there is some truth to that.

Martin
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on December 01, 2008, 07:06 PM:
 
turboranger,
Again, thanks for the sincere answer, that's all I was searching for. That's all I'm searching for in all my answers. If it offends somebody, get over it and move on, it's not that big of a deal. Would I like to have a new WT? Sure I would, it looks like a nice caller. Would I call Martz and "ask" if I could have one? No way, no how. If he sends me one out of feeling guilty for trying to keep one I sent in to trade for the 2030 model, that'd be fine, but no other way.
 

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Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on December 01, 2008, 09:38 PM:
 
Turboranger, hey bud, hows it going?

Causing dust-ups over on PM with the WT subject is my area of expertise, I take pride in it but here you come making all the leg humpers (including mods) throw a tissy!

Could you At least ask before stepping on my territory?

Funny how they think you are Bill, good thing they don't know about the Bill in outer space satellite that spies on their every move!!

Anyway, glad to see you around and posting, gotta be around for long? I still wanna take you up on that offer to hunt with you up your way. I don't get out much any more and that would be a treat!

Your caller or mine?
 

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Posted by Bill Martz (Member # 378) on December 02, 2008, 01:11 AM:
 
JoeF said: "WT's grantee code = nw6 (it shows 2 products, not 6)

Answer: WT and it's associate companies have 8 FCC certifications for various transmitters.

Read the last statement above JoeF. See if your fragile mind can grasp it.

JoeF, This is one of the reasons I dislike stupid people. They read but only see what they want to see. That's one of the reasons as to why their personal lives are usually a disaster. I have all the time in the world for honest people but none for the ignorant. Next time you post make sure to engage brain before jumping to conclusions.

Peter Marvin: You are liar, traitor and a weasel rolled into one disgusting piece of humanity. But the good part is that you have to live with it knowing what the rest of the world thinks about you.

Bill Martz
 

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Posted by Bill Martz (Member # 378) on December 02, 2008, 01:14 AM:
 
Hi Leonard

I hope you're having fun because you deserve to.

Bill Martz
 

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Posted by Bill Martz (Member # 378) on December 02, 2008, 03:00 AM:
 
For Scott F.

My apologies for the rude posts directed at you. It's been along time since I've posted and thought that you were actually Joe F.

Bill Martz
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on December 02, 2008, 07:38 AM:
 
Bill,
It's obvious by your response that my questions are driving your crazy. You do not answer them and only revert back to your childish manners. If you can't answer these simple questions I've posted honestly, what makes you think you'll be able to answer some more in depth technical questions? Folks viewing from the sidelines, this here is the kind of customer service you'll get if you have to deal with this person. What kind of engineer are you again Bill?
 

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Posted by CCP (Member # 913) on December 02, 2008, 06:50 PM:
 
Snowblower I believe there are maybe only 2 internet boards you have not posted your hatred Of Bill Martz. Your hatred has tainted your reviews to the point no one listens to you but gets annoyed by your post. I do not own a W.T. caller at this time but listening to you makes me want one. It reminds me of a woman. In the sense that usually the guy she hates the most is usually the one she loves the most but broke her heart. So I take it from your post the W.T. is a great caller but Bill broke your heart so now you have to bash him. Get over it Bill don’t love you so move on. Your expertise only means something to you.
I don’t post here much but do read here a lot I don’t always agree with Lenard but I do like that he lets people speak their minds in most cases as long as it kinda sorta in some way makes sense.

[ December 03, 2008, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on December 02, 2008, 07:14 PM:
 
Scott F., I'm sure sorry that BM mistook you for me and focused unnecessary grief in your direction.

I normally ignore the BM's on the internet but kinda get drawn in when ole Sweet Papa Willy Dear crawls out and tries to discredit others.

Most of the time I think of the following song, and will now. Oughta be good for another 3-5 years....

Big Bad Bill (Is Sweet William Now)
Words & Music by Jack Yellen and Milton Ager, 1924
Recorded by Leon Redbone, 1978

D A7 D B7
In the town of Louie-ville
E7 Bm7-5 G G/F# E7
Lived a man they called Big Bad Bill;
A7 Em7 G A7 A7+5 D
I want to tell you, he sure was tough --
Cdim Em7 A7
He certainly did strut that stuff.
D A7 D B7
He had folks scared to death;
E7 Bm7-5 G G/F# E7
When he walked by they held their breath.
E7 Bm7-5 E7 Em7/9 Fdim A7
He was a fightin' man, sure e - nough.
G B7 E7
Now Bill took himself a wife,
G/B A7 G/B Cdim A7
Just to lead a dif'frent life.
D Em7 D A7 G Em7 A7 D G D A7
Big Bad Bill is Sweet William now;
D Em7 D A7 D Cdim A7
Married life has changed him somehow.
G G/F# Em7 Gdim
He's the man that they all used to fear
D F#7 B7
Now the people call him sweet Papa Willy Dear
E7 Bm7-5 B7 E7
Stronger than Samson, I declare,
A7 G/B A7 Em7 A7
Til a soft-skinned Delilah bobbed his hair.
D Em7 D A7 D Em7 A7 D G D A7
Big Bad Bill don't fight an - y - more;
D Em7 D A7 D F#7 B7
Wash - es dish - es and he mops up the floor.
G Em7 C#7
Used to spend his ev'nings lookin' for a fight;
D F#7 B7
Now he's got to see his momma ev'ry night.
G Em7 A7 Em7 A7 D
Big Bad Bill is Sweet William now.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on December 02, 2008, 07:43 PM:
 
I will say that I called WT today, while not quite ready to pull the trigger, I'm liking what I'm hearing about them. And the lady I spoke with took her time and answered every question I had, very refreshing. Even let me listen to sounds over the phone and looked up people near me who have their callers.

I also called foxpro and the customer service dude was ready to hang up the phone right after he answered my first question. I felt so rushed I had to call him back and ask more questions a second time, don't think I'll call a third.
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on December 02, 2008, 08:01 PM:
 
CCP,
Thanks for the information, I appreciate that deep insight into Love and life, I'll take it with a grain of salt. One side note that you might want to consider is that lots of people buy a product based on the type of customer service they'll receive after they purchase Brand X. If customers are chastened or cussed at for calling and asking questions, why would they want to deal with somebody like that? I don't have hate towards Martz or his product, it's a good caller (read that three times if you need to). I don't require Bill to think anything positive about me, but respect for another person is something else. Stooping to name calling and childish threats is something for elementary school kids I thought. Utilizing information from a purchase to plaster all over the net is another low ball tactic if you ask me. There are things I know about Martz that I wouldn't dare say on a public forum for the simple notion that he doesn't deserve it and I don't need to have that hanging over my head. I even regret calling Bill a "loser" in my prior posts. Bill if you're still reading this, Sorry about that, that was low down of me. Bill has and does make a good product. His sound library is excellent and he has sounds in it that nobody else has. CCP, if you decide to buy a WT because of my "hatred" go ahead, you'll get a good caller. If you notice, I ask a lot of questions and insinuate a lot of things by the questions I ask. Do I do this for a reason? Obviously I do, because I want to know the truth. I don't like reading things on a manufacturer's website and researching things on my own to find holes in the story. I want to know the truth about things, be it good or bad. I have many old WT's and enjoy collecting them for sounds and to just "have". I've helped many WT customers with their old WT's that typically were not comfortable dealing Bill. I cannot help that, they come to me for help, and I've helped them. Martz has my email address, home address, cell number and apparently my whole "life history", so there's no reason he can't get ahold of me privately if he wants to iron this out. I'm big enough to apologize if I'm wrong about anything I've said. Bill, if you're still bitter over the recording equipment, I'm sorry, I bought the same stuff and it's top of the line. Everything else that you've tried to pin on me is not true. If you want to iron it out, contact me privately, so we can quit this foolishness. There's more to learn here than what piece of electronics is going to call animals. I have a "dream" caller, but nobody makes it yet. Maybe we can all pool our cash together and get one built...
I hope that I haven't offended anybody by this post. If I have, email me and we too can iron it out. I swear half of the forums on the web are just a bunch of bickering adults trying to prove something. I have nothing to prove. I want to learn more, kill more, and meet people who enjoy the same things that I do. I'm still young and fresh in this game, but want to gleam the info of all these veteran callers before it's all gone. Now if some of them would just come to Alaska on a day like today, when it's -30ºF, we could maybe get some serious hunting in.

Edited to add:
Tom64, I've had very good dealings with the lady at WT (Bill's wife) I believe. She's always been understanding and helpful.

Leonard,
Thanks for the site where you let the conversation roll along.

-Peter Marvin
snowcamoman@gmail.com

[ December 02, 2008, 08:11 PM: Message edited by: TundraWookie ]
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on December 02, 2008, 08:34 PM:
 
"I will say that I called WT today"

Good move Tom. I have a WT 2030 and highly recommend it. The new smaller units should be just as good.
I will also add, I give everyone a chance, I'll be ordering a Fury for a fair and balanced comparison.

Spelling has been checked by the fat man.
 

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Posted by turboranger (Member # 3349) on December 02, 2008, 08:51 PM:
 
Guys I have found the most AWESOME hunting decoy on the web. The price of these is just right to send to "ahem" all of your favorite friends. Just attach it to tree and press its ear. Coyotes are going to be screaming into this one!!


 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on December 02, 2008, 08:55 PM:
 
Now that Humphrey is one funny decoy. Now who has a Chihuahua Distress sounds???? Or maybe it's a Chihuahua estrus chirp that would work better
 

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Posted by turboranger (Member # 3349) on December 02, 2008, 09:16 PM:
 
I just figured in light of the leg humping this could become a great new hunting accessory. It would be quintessential and could be included in the packaging of those brand spanking new callers coming out that can handle the decoys.

Disclaimer: This is just only a joke no disrespect meant.

Damn!! I put that up on the PM site and it didn't last more than 20 minutes!! Those boys are right on the ball over there.

[ December 02, 2008, 10:00 PM: Message edited by: turboranger ]
 

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Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on December 02, 2008, 10:17 PM:
 
So does this mean Smithers is going to be coming around again?
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on December 03, 2008, 09:12 AM:
 
Hey Richard, how ya doin'? Question... If Gerald Stewart, Al Morris or Steve Criner posted pics of their hunts and extolled the virtues of the Preymaster or current JS or HS ecaller would you call them self promoting leg-humpers? Do you understand the obligations of "field-staff"?
Leonard, If I were truly your Mom, you would be standing in the corner now.


So much for a "target-rich" environment.(those were his words, Bucko)

[ December 03, 2008, 11:25 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 03, 2008, 10:02 AM:
 
Listen, Higgins. I didn't ask for your opinion, but since you offered it, I will tell you something. I have one fucking rule here, don't piss me off.

If you don't like it, you can kiss my ass. LB

edit: Okay, I broke a cardinal rule in pruning several posts, in the interest of HARMONY. (no, not the pole dancer)

But, since "he" did what I asked, more or less, and I neither expected it, nor particularly cared if he did it, I suppose it's best to cut out the bullshit, understanding that on principle, I hate to do it.

Now, can we get back on topic? (I even hate to say that; because I have never said it before, on Huntmasters)

Good hunting. LB

PS Stand me in a corner, eh? Good luck with that. Oops, scratch that, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain

[ December 03, 2008, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Q-Wagoner (Member # 33) on December 03, 2008, 02:12 PM:
 

quote:

---

Don’t piss me off

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quote:

---

It is really the whole .com coyote hunter mentality. Got me and AR, an e-caller, some fancy camo and a decoy or two. Now with my new video camera I am going out to bust me some yotes, make a movie about it and be famous. LMAO Does that sound familiar?

---

LOL HA HA HA Sounds familiar to me. I was that man about 5-7 years ago. You described me to a "T" except without an AR. Well Hell, it sounded like a better way to make a living than painting houses. Oh well, "sigh", guess I'll just be an ordinary average take the boys out on the weekends coyote hunter. "sigh" I am hoping to get my 10 year old Jacob's first coyote on video though!

P.S. 5-7 years ago would of been a hell of a time to get into that market. Back then it was Johnny Stewart, Randy Anderson, brown haired Vic, and only a few others. Now there's a big ol' hairy spot dedicated to just calling coyotes at all the big hunter's paradise stores.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on December 03, 2008, 07:58 PM:
 
"For the rest of the story" somehow Mike Dillon found out I wasn't happy with their CS and called me today to apologise and answer my questions. He is very concerned with CS and reaffirmed that to his employees.

For the record, yesterday they were swamped with orders for the fury and I was just kicking the tires. Maybe I should try to be a little more understanding...
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on December 03, 2008, 08:22 PM:
 
Just buy the fury, you'll be happy with it.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 03, 2008, 08:28 PM:
 

 

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Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on December 07, 2008, 07:49 AM:
 
Bill,
HUMPA,HUMPA!!!!!!

Thanks for making such a great caller!
HUMPA,HUMPA,HUMPA!!!!!

It works great!!!!
HUMPA,HUMPA,HUMPA!!!!!!

You and Pat, who is getting better looking everyday I might add, have always been there for all my questions and needs!!!

HUMPA,HUMPA, HUMPA, HUMPA,

Glad to see your posting here on this wonderful website!!

HUMPA, HUMPA, HUMPA, HUMPA,
Leonard, one for you!!
Humpa!!

Here is my pic. for this month. I will keep posting in accordance with our agreement!!
HUMPA HUMPA HUMPA HUMPA HUMPA almost there!!



P.S. uhh didn't get last months check?? You better not be holdin out on me you worthless,goll danged, pompis assed SOB!!!
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on December 19, 2008, 05:32 PM:
 
Well, Glad to see you back up and running Leonard. I have been lucky enough to get one of the new Furys for testing and I have ran around to every gas and oil well in the county and most of the coal mines and even in town. I can't get a glitch of any kind to appear. It seems to be to be a way better remote than what we have had in the past. The older remotes had some issues with line of sight, and you had to set up accordingly. Not really a big problem once you realized the limitations. This one works everywhere that I have tried it. Over the hill, around the bend, whatever. I haven't tried any really long range testing because, well, because I'm lazy and its been cold. I will have a couple volunteers starting tommorrow (the kids are out of school) and I can have them pack the caller way out and away to see if it works and then bring it back. The sound quality with the mark 2 sounds is really good. I've been playing with some of the new sounds and they are considerably clearer and louder. I never had any problem calling and killing coyotes with the old ones, but maybe the new stuff will be even better. I realize that I'm not in the genius stature of Bill Martz, but I personally think that I have killed more coyotes than he has sold callers, and my opinion is that FoxPro has done good with the Fury and I think most everyone will like the new features and remote. (Some people aren't happy with anything and you can't please everybody!)

[ December 21, 2008, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: 3 Toes ]
 

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Posted by Bill Martz (Member # 378) on December 20, 2008, 10:44 PM:
 
3 Toes said:

"I've been playing with some of the new fury sounds and they are considerably clearer and louder."

Answer: The term clearer when applied to audio quality is not relative. Clearer to your ears just means the sound contains less artifacts. It does not mean the sound has fidelity which by the way would be impossible to achieve using a $3.57 alarm transducer in place of an audio speaker. The reason the fury sounds clear to your ears is because the clever dillon gang filters their sounds to mask the short cummings of the toy speaker used in their products which results in less then desireable audio fidelity. Also, how could their sounds be louder when they use the same voltage, current and speaker as used in their previous models? It looks like you will probably never be hired as an audio critic.

"I realize that I'm not in the genius stature of Bill Martz"

Answer: I'll second that.

"but I'm willing to bet I've killed more coyotes than he has sold callers,"

Answer: I'll take you up on that bet and give you 3 to 1 odds that you will lose the bet. Minimum bet will be $1000. Show up or shut up and bring documentation with you.

"and my opinion is that FoxPro has done good with the Fury"

Answer: I will admit it's a small step up from the their previous models which used a speech coder asic for 7 years that was designed exclusively for the toy industry. But I don't understand why the Dillon gang would use a $3.57 speaker in the signal chain of their newer products when they know that it will seriously degrade the sounds played thru it. But alas, I do know why they use the $3.57 alarm transducer in their product. Because they will attract more uneducated consumers because of size only. By the way, our KAS-2030MS is the same size and weight as the fury but has 3 times the volume and 3 times the fidelity and cost $100 less.

In closing, I think some one with all your coyote experience should have heard quite a few of them vocalize which should make you an expert at identifying coyote sounds. If that it the case, then why do you say that the new foxpro sounds are very good? I think you need to pay a visit to the ear doctor. If you want to reply to this post, please do. But no opinions, just facts.

Bill Martz
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 20, 2008, 11:41 PM:
 
OH BOY.....

Hey, what about that kick ass remote?
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on December 21, 2008, 05:48 AM:
 
I have been trying hard to stay out of "stuff" lately. But I cant help it. Just an observation or two and a thought.

As for the bet, Im anxious to see how this goes....

My call shot craps a couple years ago and Ive been using mouth calls and patiently waiting to see a call I really want to buy. Been studying alot too.

Bill, I dont think its a secret that you come across as a brash ass online. I have heard that you give people that buy calls from you fantastic service though. A fella from Canada that I talk to some, and trust his opinion, swears by your calls and your service.

Another thing I have noticed, even among your biggest opponents online, its always a personal thing or brand war. Hardly anyone has anything bad to say about your caller or the quality. I think that speaks volumes.

Im not ready to pull the trigger just yet. However, I never thought I would say this two years ago, after studying and hearing several calls, Im leaning strongly toward a WT.

It kinda boils down to $600 for a Minaska, $600 for a Foxpro or $500 for a WT. For a little less money, you get more call, from what I can see.....

Edit: Made a misquote. Fixed it.

[ December 21, 2008, 05:59 AM: Message edited by: Andy L ]
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on December 21, 2008, 06:00 AM:
 
BTW, Im not humpin your leg just yet. (Both legs appear to be currently occupied by TA and Randy, LMAO)
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 21, 2008, 07:06 AM:
 
Interesting wager; Note that 3TOES states that ".......I've 'killed' more coyotes than he has sold callers". To give 3 to 1 odds to a respected ADC guy with access to planes, getters, traps, dogs, calls, and for all I know, 1080 back in 'the day' is putting a lot of faith in him not having documentation with all of the T's dotted & the I's crossed.

Pass the popcorn.......this could get good!!!!!
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on December 21, 2008, 08:16 AM:
 
Kinda what Im thinkin KoKo. I wouldnt doubt the last 12 months numbers might suffice.....

I got the beer, get your grubby hands off the popcorn and scoot over. I gotta see this too...

 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on December 21, 2008, 09:03 AM:
 
I wouldn't trust you to be honest enough to make a bet like that with you Bill!

Once again I am the first to honestly admit that I have no experience with the "sound" business. The point I was trying to make is that with the ability to record and playback the 24 bit sounds that the caller "sounded" louder and clearer. As you stated, that is only an opinion and I have nothing more to back it up than that. I'm sure that to most of the guys around this board that is probably good enough. My main goal was to report that I couldn't find any interference with the remote. I live in gas and oil country and there are gas wells everywhere that are remotely radio controlled. And I have went right to them to try my caller and I haven't had any problems yet. If I do, I will report them honestly. It doesn't open or close garage doors either!
I have never stated anywhere that WT doesn't have a good product or sound library and I hope your new callers are successful, Bill. But you never cease to amaze me at the lengths you will go to to discredit the competition. If yours is truly a better product and you have better customer service, why not let that speak for itself rather than trying to make the rumor mill do the work for you?

Andy, the prices are all competitive right now with the Fury coming out. Make your own choice, but really, would you rather deal with Bill, or me! Who do YOU trust? When I was working for Natrona county a few years ago they offered to buy me a caller. I tried to buy a WT. Foxpro hadn't really got going yet then. Just in trying to work with Bill over the phone to get the sounds I wanted, I finally gave up and hung up. That is how enjoyable the man is to work with. I was just a poor, dumb trapper with the opportunity for a zero cost to me WT and I couldn't even get through the ordering process with the guy.

[ December 21, 2008, 05:05 PM: Message edited by: 3 Toes ]
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on December 21, 2008, 09:23 AM:
 
Cal, that goes without saying. Ive been chatting with you for years and there is no question of trust or belief when it comes to what you have to say.

Bill does come across as an ass online, no doubt. (Some say I do too. ) Im sure Bill doesnt care anymore than I do about that part.

I guess your the first customer, or potential customer, I have heard that from? My memory aint what it used to be, so I could be wrong...

Like I said, Im in no hurry to buy anything. Actually, since hunting with Higgins, Im really enjoying using mouth calls. Different ballgame for me. And I dont care which electronic you get, none are lighter or more compact than a AP-6.

Ill keep chekin em out and see what happens. Like I said, I never thought two years ago I would be giving Bill the benifit of the doubt, but he does make a fine product, from what I have seen.

Hell, I may be spittin in the wind. I may be on the black list and not even considered worthy of a WT, never can tell....
 

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Posted by Bill Martz (Member # 378) on December 21, 2008, 09:43 AM:
 
Hello 3 Toes

"Well, lets see, I have federal documentation for over 800 coyotes killed in my county from Sept 07 to Sept 08."

Response: No shooting from airplanes, no poison, no traps, no dogs and no fudging. How many did you kill while just using calls? I only want to compare apples to apples.

"I'm guessing that you will have to get out your printer and make a bunch of fake invoices to match that for the same time period. I wouldn't trust you to be honest enough to make a bet like that with you Bill!

Response: Our database is IRS certified unlike the kill documents turned in by some USDA trappers.

"The point I was trying to make is that with the ability to record and playback the 24 bit sounds that the caller "sounded" louder and clearer."

Response: 24 bit or even 16 bit sound is a waste of time in the foxpro because the signal chain doesn't even have the resolution to produce 8 bit sound. That's why I think that's you ought to visit the ear doctor. The reason that you think the fury is louder is because the human ear is most sensitive to frequencies between 1200cps and 2500 cps and also amplifies those frequencies by a factor of 3 to 4 times. In other words, some one is trying to decieve you. But that's ok with you because they let you pick your own sounds and tell you what a great guy you are.

"But you never cease to amaze me at the lengths you will go to to discredit the competition."

Response: In other words, If I state the FACTS (no opinions) I am a bad guy. But if I kissed the customers asses it's then ok to sell you them toy products.

"Just in trying to work with Bill over the phone to get the sounds I wanted, I finally gave up and hung up. That is how enjoyable the man is to work with. I was just a poor, dumb trapper with the opportunity for a zero cost to me WT and I couldn't even get through the ordering process with the guy."

Response: I guess we had a communication problem. Or maybe I know a little more about wildlife vocalizations than you do. And because of that I wouldn't let you pick incorrect sounds for your use. After all, I want our customers to be successful. But maybe for government work that's not neccessary.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 21, 2008, 09:55 AM:
 
Hey Bill
The WT has been working really well for me this year i'm glad i bought one from you. The area i call in i can actually watch the coyotes and see how they respond to the WT and to hand calls.. The WT does truely reach way out there and pulls them in.. I like to call with the caller sitting next to me so i can then pick it up and sweep it from side to side. If the coyotes are located prior to going in and calling them i just point the caller in the direction i last heard them from and start calling..
But if i'm calling cold then i will sweep the caller from 9:00 to 3:00 positions and pick up more coyotes and haveing to make less stands.
There are alot of deer and other animals in my area and by watching there reactions i can tell how far the sound is reaching and the WT really reaches out there.. I also found that if you have a coyote thats way out there and not responding he maynot be hearing the caller and by moveing it side to side i can find a sweet spot where the coyote can hear it and then takes off in my direction, the sound travels kinda like a laser beam..Anyway the WT is working great and may get another this spring for my longer walks.. Thanks.. Tim A.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 21, 2008, 11:25 AM:
 
DING! The statement was "I'm willing to bet I've KILLED more coyotes than he has sold callers".

Answer; "I'll take you up on that bet and give you 3 to 1 odds that you lose the bet..........."

Evidence of documentation is offered and the back peddling has begun.

Sounds to me that round one goes to 3Toes.

Andy; No more of that cheap popcorn, we need some good kettle-korn for this one.
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on December 21, 2008, 11:32 AM:
 
Ill get it cookin KoKo...
 

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Posted by Bill Martz (Member # 378) on December 21, 2008, 11:51 AM:
 
Kokopelli

"Evidence of documentation is offered and the back peddling has begun."

Response: Either you are stupid or just trying to create an issue to liven up your life. In my reply to 3 Toes I was referring to wildlife calling as the tool to call and shoot coyotes. After all, our company manufactures wildlife callers. Not airplanes, traps, or poison. I know virtually all the usda trappers in every state of the US because most of them use our products which makes me a pretty good judge when it comes to coyote numbers harvested. In other words, I get to see the whole picture where you only have access to probably less then 1% of it.
Knowing that you will still see fit to display your ignorance, next time, before you speak consider this. The world is a bigger place than the one square block you live in. Same some money and do a little traveling. It will open up your eyes a little more.

[ December 21, 2008, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: Bill Martz ]
 

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Posted by Bill Martz (Member # 378) on December 21, 2008, 11:57 AM:
 
3 Toes and Kokopelli

"Well, lets see, I have federal documentation for over 800 coyotes killed in my county from Sept 07 to Sept 08."

Response: Both of you would have lost the bet by at least a factor of 4. See what I mean about living in a one block world.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 21, 2008, 01:35 PM:
 
Stupid???

Well, my short peckered friend, I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer but I'm smart enough not to try to weasle out of a bet by changing the terms of it after the bet has been made. That's a social skill most of us learned back in grade school.

And as far as traveling.......I've sat on a tailgate and bs'ed with Krusty in Olympia & visited with Behle in McNeil. I consider the entire western United States to be my own personal playground. That's a pretty big square block.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 21, 2008, 01:48 PM:
 
Bill is'nt stupid. I understood his post from the get go. Bill knows Cal kills alot of coyotes with a plane and other tools, but his post and others are refering to called coyotes.
I did a little searching and found that most , but not all ADC trappers call and kill around 100-150 coyotes a year. Alot depends on the area and coyote numbers ...
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on December 21, 2008, 01:52 PM:
 

quote:

---

"but I'm willing to bet I've killed more coyotes than he has sold callers,"

Answer: I'll take you up on that bet and give you 3 to 1 odds that you will lose the bet. Minimum bet will be $1000. Show up or shut up and bring documentation with you.

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Seems pretty straight forward to me.

No hidden intent. Just a bet.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 21, 2008, 02:06 PM:
 
So, what? Do we need a committee to define exact language of this friendly wager?

Near as I can determine, in U.S. dollars, it is $1000 versus $3000. Now, did 3toes specify coyotes killed by any specific method and did Bill assume he meant "called" coyotes; and not necessarily including pups pulled out of a den, etc.?

Is this an imaginary bet, or for real, and if so, who will hold the money in escrow? Who would like to judge the data? Should be an odd number, to break ties....assuming this is not just idle chatter?

Good hunting. LB

[ December 21, 2008, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Bill Martz (Member # 378) on December 21, 2008, 02:09 PM:
 
Kokopelli

"Well, my short peckered friend, I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer but I'm smart enough not to try to weasle out of a bet by changing the terms of it after the bet has been made.

Response: Apparently you can't read or do basic math.

As I said in my previous post:

"Both of you would have lost the bet by at least a factor of 4. See what I mean about living in a one block world."

I really don't care if 3 Toes used planes, helicopters, poison, traps, foxpro calls, dead cows or voodoo. He would still lose the bet. If you want to push it some more, put your money where your mouth is. For the last time, either state facts or shut up.

"And as far as traveling.......I've sat on a tailgate and bs'ed with Krusty in Olympia & visited with Behle in McNeil. I consider the entire western United States to be my own personal playground. That's a pretty big square block."

Response: I am happy to see that you are enlarging your world but, Mcneil AZ and Olympia WA only constitute approx. 1/9,900,000 of the earths surface. I think you have a long ways to go.
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on December 21, 2008, 02:47 PM:
 
Bill, I'm sure you've received my email and the prior post I made, so we don't need to rehash anything old and stale. I have a legitimate question that I emailed you and didn't get a reply, so maybe you'll answer it here (maybe not. Each of your new units are advertised as having various power ratings(30Watts, 15Watts, 10 Watts). Is this the actual Power of each amplifier, or just the manufacturer's Power handling rating for the speaker? Is each unit utilizing a different power amplifier? If each is using a different amplifier, how is the battery life between each unit? Thanks.
 

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Posted by Bill Martz (Member # 378) on December 21, 2008, 03:21 PM:
 
Peter Marvin, Fairbanks AK. (AKA TundraWookie)

I have a legitimate question that I emailed you and didn't get a reply, so maybe you'll answer it here (maybe not. Each of your new units are advertised as having various power ratings(30Watts, 15Watts, 10 Watts). Is this the actual Power of each amplifier, or just the manufacturer's Power handling rating for the speaker? Is each unit utilizing a different power amplifier? If each is using a different amplifier, how is the battery life between each unit? Thanks.

Response: Why don't you purchase all 3 models, tear them apart and determine what you want to know by yourself. After all you're the wildlife caller expert. You even have your expert caller comparisons permanently posted on the pm bbs. It won't do you any good to ask the dillon gang as they acquire every new system we design just to see how we do it. Even though they have our hardware to examine they still can't figure out how our hardware works. I guess that's why they continue to make toys instead of real products. I always wondered how Mikey dillon learned so much about electronics when only 2 or 3 years ago he didn't know the difference between a volt and a ohm. As a matter of fact, I spoke with papa dillon about 7 years ago to have him remove a statement from his ad's claiming his caller was all digital. Guess what, he had no clue and also told me that he was an electrical engineer. Imagine that. By the way, in the near future we will have 2 pages devoted to foxpro products. That would be a good place to visit if you want to learn a little more about our products and foxpro products. Sorry Peter but I don't have the time to communicate with prostitutes, wimps, liars or ignorant people.
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on December 21, 2008, 05:21 PM:
 
Well, I could be wrong Bill, and I'll be the first to admit that. Maybe you have sold more callers than I give you credit for, it really doesn't matter since there is no way to prove either of us absolutely correct. I wouldn't have documentation for most of the last 20 years or so. I worked private and for a county program for several years and all I would have is a record off of my old day books, the years of recreational hunting and trapping I wouldn't be able to document, so no way to prove it one way or another. I wouldn't begin to trust any documentation you could come up with either so I guess I'll leave it at that. I also will admit that isn't called coyotes, but I never said called coyotes. I said killed coyotes. So apples to Oranges as you said. But it requires a certain amount of knowledge to kill coyotes in numbers regardless of the method. So what can I say? I'll edit my post accordingly. I'm sorry that you couldn't show me the light and inform of what sounds you thought I needed regardless of my opinion. Thats exactly what I want in life is another asshole telling me what he thinks I need.
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on December 21, 2008, 05:41 PM:
 
William Martz, (Bill Martz), Manchester New Hampshire, (AKA I HAVE A NAME, AKA KAS 20somethingCaller, AKA BM...etc)

Ahhh Bill, a response written like a professional of dodging questions. I get more childish name calling from you than answers, which AGAIN goes to show me how little you really claim to know. Either the truth hurts when I ask you a question, or you're hiding something that you'd rather keep "top secret"? My guess is that each of those units has the same circuit using the same amp and power output. The only difference between prices is for the additional sounds and a tidbit for the larger TOA. Bill, would you like if I posted a detailed photo showing all of your customers how to get every sound off of those units? It's really simple and maybe a post that would get pinned at the top of every forum that has an e-caller section. There are several moderators at various forums who would love to put up something like that. I could even sell the hardware and a DVD Tutorial on how to do it. You should really play nice Bill and RESPECT people. Did you see what I wrote???? It's called RESPECT! I know you think you're above most everybody, but try the RESPECT thing once in awhile, you might see that it works. I'm sure you'll probably say you don't have to respect me or anybody else who questions you based on reading that you were telling an ADC guy what sounds HE wants. If the guy wanted Dying New Hampshire Gerbil Estrus Yodel Communication, give the guy what he wants... For crying out loud, you're not sitting on a cure for cancer here. Here's a link so you can see what RESPECT means if you need help.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/respect

Maybe you need to get out more Bill and interact with people. Maybe it's just this online thing that makes it hard for you to communicate your true feelings. Either way, if you ever decided to change your personality, you'd probably triple your sales. I know I know, you're probably thinking you don't need to sell more callers because you only do this as a part time hobby and have other ventures in life..Good for you.. Maybe you should get out of this game so you don't have to waste all your time trying to prove to everybody why you're the greatest.

Bill, why would I need to buy all 3 of your callers when eventually people will send them to me to work on and fix? Not trying to be rude to you Bill, just letting you in on how little some of your customers dislike dealing with you. This isn't anything new to you, just read the prior posts. See the RESPECT thing above if needed.
Bill, you really don't need to drag the Dillon's or FoxPro into this argument I didn't ask you about them. But since you want to discuss it, how's about that new Fury remote Bill? That thing is Light Years ahead of the 418Mhz unit you're selling now. Please tell me how the FURY remote is inferior in any way to your new remote? I mean look at the features, range, robust-ness and user friendly options on that thing. It even has a lanyard loop for crying out loud. From the sounds of the people using them (even in oil fields) where JoshT claimed they'd be problematic, the units are working excellent. Please let me know how the Dillon's are "trying" to keep up with you when their remote is blowing WT's out of the water (features, ergonomics, range)? Bill, have you checked out the volume of the Snow Crow Pro that FoxPro makes??? I hope in your 2 page FoxPro ad, you mention that the Snow Crow Pro is louder than your callers. Here are some other things you might want to list too, just to keep everything on the up and up.

Decoy Output - Free on FoxPro / Unknown on WT.$$$
Programmable Sounds - Yes on FoxPro / No on WT
Warranty - FoxPro 5 Years / WT 2 year limited

FoxPro will make up any custom sound a customer wants from their library. WT will not, or has not in the past (clarify if this changed Bill).

RESPECT - FoxPro Definite YES / WT...Unknown..

Why stop at just FoxPro Bill, what about all of the other players in the game: GameTraks, Minaska/Flambeau, JS, KanatiTek. Is one company that much of a thorn in your side?

You can respond to my emails anytime you want. If you're still coming to Alaska, just send me the dates so I can be certain that I'm in town. When the Salmon hit, I'm out of town all the time, so let me know Bill. Put together a good sound-list of about 70 sounds for the 2030MS model, I "might" order one from you one of these days Bill. I'd like all 12 Rabbits , 6 Lynx, 9 RedFox and 10 Wolves if that helps. Moose calling is illegal up here now, so make sure you don't load any Moose Mating sounds on callers coming to Alaska. Or if you'd rather trade me for one of the 4 Programmable Models I have, let me know as there are several guys who want to buy them, especially since they can play whatever sound they want on them. One of them has over 70 sounds on it too that you could help keep off the free market if you'd like. You have my email and can contact me anytime you want to work out the details. You have to send me the new caller first though because I know how you are with my WT's when I mail them back to you. I'm to be TRUSTED (ask the large number of your customers who send me their callers out of the blue to work on and I return them).. Whereas the last time I sent you my unit, you were going to keep the thing until your nice wife decided to send it back to me.

-Peter Marvin
I too have a name and don't hide under rocks.

[ December 21, 2008, 06:01 PM: Message edited by: TundraWookie ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 21, 2008, 06:48 PM:
 
TundraWookie. Look who is makeing all the threats now. About the only thing Bill should send you now is a box of dog shit to roll in..LOL
Bill don't need all that goofy star wars shit on his remote it works just fine the way it is. Oh and mine has a lanyard loop on it.
As far as what parts are used in Bills callers and remotes it none of our business as long as they do what they are suppose to do, and thats call coyotes.
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on December 21, 2008, 07:52 PM:
 
Peter and Cal,

I kind of think that you two need to lay off of Bill and show him a little consideration. It's no wonder that he is always so grumpy and wanting to snap at every one.

Can you imagine what it would be like, to go through life with a dick so long that you were stepping on it every time that you turned around???
 

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Posted by Bill Martz (Member # 378) on December 21, 2008, 08:06 PM:
 
3 Toes

"Maybe you have sold more callers than I give you credit for,"

Response: What part of the statement "IRS certified database didn't you understand? Would you like me to explain to you what a database is?Only your documentation would be subject to doubt.

"it really doesn't matter since there is no way to prove either of us absolutely correct."

Response: One more time. What part of the statement "IRS certified database" didn't you understand?

"Thats exactly what I want in life is another asshole telling me what he thinks I need."

Response: Maybe that's your problem. Your surrounded by asshole's. If I were you I would make some new friends.

Marvin the prostitute

Response: So all it took was a few choice words to bring you out of the closet and expose your worthless self to the world.

"Bill, would you like if I posted a detailed photo showing all of your customers how to get every sound off of those units? It's really simple and maybe a post that would get pinned at the top of every forum that has an e-caller section."

Response: I love the way you keep putting your foot into your mouth. You do realize that your own words will come back to financially hurt you someday, don't you?

"There are several moderators at various forums who would love to put up something like that."

Response: Moderator-one who presides over an assembly, meeting, or discussion. Are you trying to tell me that the ignorant hacks and prostitutes on the pm board are moderators? Sorry, but that term is reserved for people that can read and write and hold real jobs. The next thing you will probably tell me is that the foxpro pro staff are actually professionals.

"I could even sell the hardware and a DVD Tutorial on how to do it.

Response: Thats' exactly how a piece of scum like you thinks. That's also an example of why the hunting community in this country is under constant threat of losing their rights to bear arms and hunt. Because of people like you who lie, cheat and steal for your own gain, whatever that may be, It also destroys the credibility of the rest of the hunting community. Marvin, save your threats for next year when I am standing in front of you. Then we will see how your
confidence fairs. By the way, you couldn't scare me even if you had your best pink prostituting dress on.

"Bill, you really don't need to drag the Dillon's or FoxPro into this argument I didn't ask you about them. But since you want to discuss it, how's about that new Fury remote Bill? That thing is Light Years ahead of the 418Mhz unit you're selling now. Please tell me how the FURY remote is inferior in any way to your new remote?

Response: I think you ought to get your nose out of their asses before you lose it. To bad they don't have an audio system to go along with the spiffy transmitter. Just a little note for the rest of you: We don't have to hang our systems in trees to get the range required for any calling situation. One more thing. We designed and implemented an lcd sreen in our transmitter design in 1996. Thats 12 years ago.

"It even has a lanyard loop for crying out loud."

Response: Thats a break for you. You will save some money on the lanyard because you will only need about 3 inches of it to get around your skinny neck.

"Here are some other things you might want to list too, just to keep everything on the up and up.
Decoy Output - Free on FoxPro / Unknown on WT.$$$
Programmable Sounds - Yes on FoxPro / No on WT
Warranty - FoxPro 5 Years / WT 2 year limited
FoxPro will make up any custom sound a customer wants from their library."

Response: You forgot something. They will also kiss your ass if you buy something from them.

"Why stop at just FoxPro Bill, what about all of the other players in the game: GameTraks, Minaska/Flambeau, JS, KanatiTek. Is one company that much of a thorn in your side?"

Response: I don't like sneaky, wimpy, ignorant people. I also don't like people who plagiarize our companies copy righted information. They bug me the most. That's all there is to it. Watch the future, Foxpro is a sinking ship. Keep this up marvin and foxpro just might make you a moderator and a pro field staff member. Then you could walk all over AK with your skinny chest puffed out with pride.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 21, 2008, 08:11 PM:
 
Bill says that I should "........either state facts or shut up".

Ok. Here's a fact.

Bill, you need to hire a company spokesman with people skills & take a long vacation. I would recomend France. Let your product speak for itself, 'cause you're not doing so good.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on December 21, 2008, 09:28 PM:
 
"I like to call with the caller sitting next to me so i can then pick it up and sweep it from side to side. If the coyotes are located prior to going in and calling them i just point the caller in the direction i last heard them from and start calling.."
--------------------------
Wow, if I was gonna call with the caller right next to me, I wouln't tell anyone about it. Cancels out the advantage of using an electronic caller the way I see it. If there was no need to get the caler cross-wind of my hidey hole, I would simoly use hand calls.
 

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Posted by Bill Martz (Member # 378) on December 21, 2008, 09:35 PM:
 
Kokopelli

"Bill, you need to hire a company spokesman with people skills & take a long vacation. I would recomend France. Let your product speak for itself, 'cause you're not doing so good."

Response: I don't give a rats ass if you or anyone else on these forums buy our products. I don't post here to sell product. I only post here to call a spade a spade. That's all. By the way, I prefer other parts of Europe over France.

Leonard: I hope you are having fun. You deserve it. Thanks for giving me opportunity to share my thoughts.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 21, 2008, 09:47 PM:
 
I call mostly in open country, i see no need to have the caller placed away from me. When a coyote comes in it will do one of two things come straight in or come in from the side and circle the caller and end up in front. Hand calls are fine for most calling but if i want to cover a larger area or use sounds i can't produce with a hand call then i use the electric caller..
I've found that if you place the caller away from you there canbe times a coyote can slip in and look at the caller and not be seen by the shooter.. I've done it this way for years and see no reason to change when calling coyotes out west..
The coyotes i missed on my last trip was due more to shooting error than stand selection or call placement..
Hopefully i can have the CAM mounted on my rifle for the next trip and then i can show you what i'm talking about.

Randy Shaw was on a stand with me and can verify what i'm talking about.

[ December 21, 2008, 10:00 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on December 21, 2008, 10:01 PM:
 
Bill,
You're an A-1 class act, full of insight and true genius wisdom. If you're going to try and threaten me both by coming here to physically harm me and now somehow by financially threatening me, you'd better do more homework about me before you make that wrong move.
I'm obviously not going to give out any WT secrets about how to get your less than CD quality sounds off of your units, so calm down and don't get your Gerbil Distressed Under-Roos in a bunch. All you had to do was answer some very simple, legitimate technical questions Bill. What is so hard about answering these questions? Here's a fact: you missed a photo on your website showing one of your circuit designs. The MP3 player inside the "Black Box" is missing. That's a classic that needs to go on there showing true "embedded CD quality". Absolute childsplay Bill, that's all you're about. I come to the table here with REAL questions and expect FACTS.. All you deliver is name calling and a tantrum.
Bill, FoxPro, Minaska, JS, KanatiTek..etc. does not support me in any way, so you can get off that high horse. I'm not making a profit on any of this e-caller stuff Martz, it's just a hobby, just like it is to you remember?

TA17Rem,
If I want to ask a legitimate technical question about a caller, what's wrong with that??? Tell me, what's wrong with wanting to know if I buy the largest WT model and take the circuit out and put it in any other TOA speakers to make it more compact at any moment I want??? Do you see where I'm going here TA17Rem? Keep getting on that leg of WT's and maybe you'll get some free sounds tossed your way.
 

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Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on December 22, 2008, 06:22 AM:
 
Free sounds? who said free sounds? where!?
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on December 22, 2008, 07:14 AM:
 
I want some of those free sounds too. How do I get them and how many do/can I get?

I don't want any of the stolen ones floating around up north. I've had a few things stolen from me in the past. I hate a damn thief.
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on December 22, 2008, 08:07 AM:
 
Browning204 & Dan,
They're not free guys. You've already paid for them and they're right inside that TOA speaker cap. You probably paid more than the $10 a sound that they're charging now, but either way, anybody who has purchased them has them in their hands. I'm not giving out any of the sounds I've collected on all of the old WT's I've purchased either if that's where you're headed.
 

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Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on December 22, 2008, 09:30 AM:
 
I wasn't heading there Wookie, I thought Bill was giving out free sounds

Maybe he is having a Christmas extravaganza!!!
 

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Posted by howler (Member # 197) on December 22, 2008, 10:54 AM:
 
Hello Guys, interesting conversation were having here for sure. I have an interest in the WT caller, I have owned FP's Bandits and johnny Stewarts. and did have one of the older WT'S for a year or so. the mini WT has peaked my interest a tad. I'm not sure if I'm brave enough to ask a question but here goes, what kind of batteries are being used in the WT's I see you have to get your own, from 12 to 16 volt. Also the smaller 10 watt unit is that the power output of the caller or jsut the speaker max wattage.

"the howler"
 

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Posted by turboranger (Member # 3349) on December 22, 2008, 11:35 AM:
 

quote:

---

Bill, would you like if I posted a detailed photo showing all of your customers how to get every sound off of those units? It's really simple and maybe a post that would get pinned at the top of every forum that has an e-caller section. There are several moderators at various forums who would love to put up something like that. I could even sell the hardware and a DVD Tutorial on how to do it. You should really play nice Bill and RESPECT people. Did you see what I wrote???? It's called RESPECT! I know you think you're above most everybody, but try the RESPECT thing once in awhile, you might see that it works.

---

Any one find this ironic? This guy is threatening to steal or teach others how too!! Then the very next statement is looking for "RESPECT" and further on down wants to be "TRUSTED" hmmm.

I think it would be amusing if he has done or does this. Then lets imagine a scenario where someone sends their caller in for a repair and they have more sounds than they paid for as it doesn't match the database. If I were the owner I would simply void any warranty or work unless of course they were to provide a name of where they got the sounds. Wonder if anyone would roll over? That along with this written threat should pretty much seal the fate of this scumbag! I am also thinking the "financial threat" should be looked at as being self promoted. Tundra**** I would maybe hold off putting a lanyard on your remotes. As smart as your obviously not you may end up hanging yourself with it out there in them big woods.
I for one have "NO RESPECT" for someone like you. Curious if there is anyone on here that likes a thief?

On the next subject of these new remotes. Curious how many people like a complicated remote for their TV, DVD, and Cablebox? I know for me I hate the damn things and avoid trying to figure them out. I still use the simple remotes that come with those devices over the high fangled one at the house. I subscribe to the KISS (keep is simple stupid) principle and like it to be very simple but also highly effective. I have over 100 sounds and can recall what number about 40 of them are from memory. For those that I want to be able to call on quickly, those become my favorites because they are very quick to get. If I am going to target an animal that I don't get to call as much i.e a bear I will set up the sounds I expect to use as my favorites prior to getting on stand. It really doesn't get much simpler than that! Two things on PMS I saw that was rather amusing one of the guys that was anxious to get his hands on one of these new remotes ended up saying it is going to be more complicated to program the remote than he thought. On another post a guy was asking how to get good tactile feedback on his remote. Some guys were proudly showing their fix of using stickon numbers!! TOO FUNNY!! Glad I don't have any of these issues with my WT

Martin

edited:The word TundraP****. That probably wasn't very nice of me even if it is deserved.

[ December 22, 2008, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: turboranger ]
 

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Posted by howler (Member # 197) on December 22, 2008, 11:44 AM:
 
WOW seems odd to me that all the real proponets of the WT are into extreme name calling and holier than thou, I might not qualify for one, Im jsut into calling predators,
 

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Posted by turboranger (Member # 3349) on December 22, 2008, 12:08 PM:
 

quote:

---

WOW seems odd to me that all the real proponets of the WT are into extreme name calling and holier than thou, I might not qualify for one, Im jsut into calling predators,

---

quote:

---

Bill, would you like if I posted a detailed photo showing all of your customers how to get every sound off of those units? It's really simple and maybe a post that would get pinned at the top of every forum that has an e-caller section. There are several moderators at various forums who would love to put up something like that. I could even sell the hardware and a DVD Tutorial on how to do it. You should really play nice Bill and RESPECT people. Did you see what I wrote???? It's called RESPECT! I know you think you're above most everybody, but try the RESPECT thing once in awhile, you might see that it works.

---

UMMM not sure how much more I have to post on it as those are your own words. You did write that correct?
As far as where I live look at the bottom of my post it shows where I live so my microcosm is actually pretty diverse and large.
Now why would anyone in their right mind answer your questions? One you don't deserve the answers and two not sure what business of yours it would be. I know I wouldn't share proprietory info with anyone. "Childish tantrums" now that funny right there "structuring logic...it'll get you farther in life." I would say I have done pretty darn well for myself. Thanks for the advice though.

[ December 22, 2008, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: turboranger ]
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on December 22, 2008, 02:08 PM:
 
Turb,
Again, no dis-respect shown, just something, which I can get an answer to. As you can see, it got an answer. Please read the key word in the statement below:

Bill, would you like if I posted a detailed photo showing all of your customers how to get every sound off of those units?

Read the part where it says: CUSTOMERS. Not me doing it, but people who paid good money for the unit and sounds.

My questions again are legitimate, technical questions aimed at a compnay owner who likes to try and state "facts" and call a spade a spade. If I want to call him out on things that aren't true, what's the harm in that? I won't sit back like many others too afraid to oppose him, I'll call it like I see it. As you can tell, he doesn't answer any of my questions because the Truth hurts. If you have something to add to me calling out lies, let me know what you think the truth is. Other people ask me these types of questions about callers, so what's the big deal about wanting to know the power of the unit's amplifier or speaker? That's good that you're doing alright for yourself and I give you half credit for taking back your foul mouthed nickname calling...but not really.
 

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Posted by turboranger (Member # 3349) on December 22, 2008, 02:31 PM:
 
So let me get this straight Peter if a "customer" has all of the sounds on his system but doesn't have access to all of them by normal means because they didn't pay for them then you say they are entitled to them? Is that how you structure your logic? In my industry if I took a Cisco Firewall for example and hacked into the extra features that I didn't pay for, I and/or my company would face huge fines. I too call a spade a spade and a thief a thief. That would be you my friend and that is a fact. Now if Bill has no intention of selling you a system, logic here would say he wouldn't intend on answering your questions as well. Make sense?
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on December 22, 2008, 03:27 PM:
 
Martin,
But you see, when you buy a WT caller, you do buy the sounds. If you want to buy more, you pay $10 per sound extra. There's no firewall or security breech to tamper with to get your sounds off the WT? Sure it's not designed to be "programmable", that's obvious, but many customers are using the sounds off of their WT callers. Not to distribute or offer for downloads/profit, but to play on other callers. That's not because of anything I've helped them with either. Isn't it a good thing though Turbo that I have a dandy collection of older "programmable" WT callers from which I got my sounds? If you are interested in one, let me know I know a guy selling one.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 22, 2008, 03:44 PM:
 
Let me float the concept in the music and DVD realm, where they say it is okay to download or copy songs and video for your personal use, but that it is not ethical or legal to sell to others. I believe they call it bootleg copies? Of course, the Chinese violate copyright and trademark laws all the time and reverse engineer many electronic products and never suffer any reprisals, even though they do it for profit. So Dennis Kirk could copy Johnny Stewart machine, or his sounds, for instance and sell for profit and it becomes a civil lawsuit rather than proscuting a thief on a criminal charge. I know that Gerald has said before that he has no objection to duplicating a tape for one's own personal use.

Look at the various spyware, and adware programs that gain access and track virtually every keystroke you make. Are these people guilty of theft, and should the police be arresting them? How many malicious viruses have been traced, those that cause actual harm and have they been arrested and are serving time? I think most of them never get caught and if they do .01% pay restitution. There are a lot of bad guys out there doing real damage.

Is accessing the data from a piece of electronics that you purchased legal, or unethical? I'm guessing what the answer might be, and would some people be tempted to do it, but should we call them a thief, in every sense of the word?

I think Bill should protect his product so that Wookie is unable to figure it out, encription etc. Doesn't Foxpro already do this? Can it be the same as walking away from your car with the windows down, and your wallet (or your gun) on the dash? The bank's ATM doesn't just spring open a little door and tell you to count out what you need, trusting on your honesty, and your ability to count accurately. They count it for you, (and take your picture) is all the further they trust you. Close the loophole, Bill.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on December 22, 2008, 04:22 PM:
 
Leonard,
Those are all good analogies, but there are much more malicious people out there after WT sounds. The Chinese would have the thing hacked and get the original sounds off the thing in a matter of hours I'd wager. I don't own one of the "all in one" type WT's but getting any sound off of a caller is easily doable. I edit and modify most of my sounds into 15 minute calling sequences with varying pitches and volumes. The only way to do that is to get the files into a format I can work with....hence the beauty of the old programmable WT's. Or, if people are able to, they can get them off the new units if they so desire. If it's about making a product to help customers and offer something that calls more animals, why not at least offer to make up some custom sound mixes for customers? It only takes a few minutes to do and does wonders for not having to handle a remote, especially at -30. FoxPro will make up a custom mix if a customer requests, it's not a big deal. Bill can keep at what he's doing by keeping his sounds locked on the new callers, that's fine and it's safe for him to protect his investment that way. It would be nice and lots of customers would be happy though if Bill would make up some sound sequences with more silent spots rather than an almost continuous sound. It's still gotta drive him nuts to think that anybody could get those sounds though.
Thanks for getting the board back up and going Leonard, this is a hoot.
 

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Posted by turboranger (Member # 3349) on December 22, 2008, 05:02 PM:
 
Yeah Leonard all of that is pretty correct. Look at the result of things like cookies,trackers, and spam etc. Look at how much easier it would be for the rest of us if those people didn't exist and we didn't have to lock our computers and networks down to the point that it is difficult to function. It cost all of us. Lets look at another example where people steal wildlife do we all suffer? What do we think of them? Once again it cost all of us."Do we call people like this a thief in every sense of the word?" I will let others decide for themselves based on their own levels of moral integrity. The thing about it though is most people that get caught are those that brag about it. With that said when someone braggs you also very quickly learn alot of things about them. For example I now know alot of the reasons why Tundra ask alot of the questions he does and what his motivations are. Funny he still looks for those answers after all of this...For those that interact with him they now know what to expect and at what level to trust him. For me I stated what I think of the guy and that still stands.

He says I should:

quote:

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Use your brain for structuring logical things and think outside the box once in awhile, it'll get you farther in life.

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Would I get ahead in life by trying to rip others off?

[ December 22, 2008, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: turboranger ]
 

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Posted by turboranger (Member # 3349) on December 22, 2008, 05:13 PM:
 
Excuse the duplicate post not sure what happened there
 

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Posted by CCP (Member # 913) on December 22, 2008, 05:14 PM:
 
A friend of mine was able to make me a program to read and convert my FXP files so I can use them on my other callers. Of course the sounds are for my personal use and not for sale. Now I am able to edit them in my Adobe programs.

If I am reading this right we can send the WT to you and you can install our sounds we bought elsewhere (FXP) onto the WT?

Next question I know it would be illegal for me to sale the sounds.(copyright laws) Now would it be illegal for me to sale the program that converts the files?

Reason I ask is if it is not illegal for you to alter the WT to extract the sounds you paid for to use for editing and putting on other callers. Then It should not be illegal for me to alter to extract the FXP sounds for my personal use to edit and play on other callers.

Still my biggest question is it legal for me to sale the program and market it. I believe it would be a great tool for someone wanting to use the sounds without having to buy the dang caller. It would be for there personal use and be basically under the same guide lines of what is being done to the WT at your shop.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 22, 2008, 05:19 PM:
 
That's funny. If you are trying to get around the censored word list, instead of writing "sale" you might want to do it this way: $ells.

It's an old program with a few bugs.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on December 22, 2008, 06:07 PM:
 
Page 4 is my favorite.
What is a WT?
Who are Turboranger, tundrawookie and Bill Martz. What day is this?
Would the 10 Eichelberger Pup work on fox out to 100 yards?

I actually had to look up trebuchet... good stuff.

[ December 22, 2008, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on December 22, 2008, 06:37 PM:
 
Turbo,
I believe if you look up the definition of Stealing, it will read: To take (the property of another) without right or permission.

Herein lies your problem. My, read that MY old programmable WT callers, are not anybody elses. They're paid for by me for me. Putting the sounds on my computer, which is also paid for by me for my own use in no way constitutes stealing. Please let me know how that's incorrect? Now, if I was selling or had a download website for these sounds, I could see you claiming I stole them, but not from where I stand. I'm sure WT hates the fact that they made a caller years ago with the ability to program and remove sounds from. Not my problem, I'm glad I have a large base of friends who keep their eyes opened for them and let me know whenever anybody is selling one.
Don't worry about trusting me Turbo, if you need your WT fixed you can send it to me too and I'll help you out. But then again, you're in pretty tight with Martz, so you better just send it there as the shipping is cheaper. People trust me plenty, just ask around outside your small circle of WT owning friends.

CCP,
Here's the answer to your question.

quote:

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Still my biggest question is it legal for me to sale the program and market it. I believe it would be a great tool for someone wanting to use the sounds without having to buy the dang caller. It would be for there personal use and be basically under the same guide lines of what is being done to the WT at your shop.

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If you don't own the caller, you shouldn't have the sounds correct? What good does having FXP files do without the caller? Make sense? How else would you receive the sound-files without having the caller, other than by some illegal type of activity? So no, you couldn't just sell that program for people who have illegal sound files to begin with. As far as what goes on at my "shop", don't worry yourself, I'm not "cracking" or "hacking" WT soundfiles. I'm customizing old WT's into a different configuration and fixing old units. But trust me, there is a large number of WT owners that want to know how to get "their" sounds off of the callers. The best answer.....Get the old programmable unit.

If you read the original post that started the WT bandwagon going here, it was a QUESTION about doing it....Here it is if anybody forgot

quote:

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Bill, would you like if I posted a detailed photo showing all of your customers how to get every sound off of those units?

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quote:

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Bill, would you like if I posted a detailed photo showing all of your customers how to get every sound off of those units? It's really simple and maybe a post that would get pinned at the top of every forum that has an e-caller section. There are several moderators at various forums who would love to put up something like that. I could even sell the hardware and a DVD Tutorial on how to do it.

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quote:

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I could even sell the hardware and a DVD Tutorial on how to do it.

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quote:

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So no, you couldn't just sell that program for people who have illegal sound files to begin with.

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So which is it Peter you can or can't do it? Why can you sell the stuff but CCP can't?

Edit:
Almost forgot this juicy piece.

quote:

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Now, if I was selling or had a download website for these sounds, I could see you claiming I stole them.

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quote:

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It's really simple and maybe a post that would get pinned at the top of every forum that has an e-caller section. There are several moderators at various forums who would love to put up something like that. I could even sell the hardware and a DVD Tutorial on how to do it.

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Seems pretty close to me??

[ December 22, 2008, 07:18 PM: Message edited by: turboranger ]
 

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Posted by CCP (Member # 913) on December 22, 2008, 07:14 PM:
 
TundraWookie I do have Foxpro callers and several other brand callers.
You can purchase the sounds off of foxpro's site they send them to my e-mail. I liked two of the FXP sounds that came on my caller when I bought it. I had a friend make a program so I could extract them and put them on one of my other brand callers.

I know several others that have foxpro callers with these sounds and would like to keep there sounds when they sell there caller. Problem is they can not use the sounds on the other brand callers because of the FPX format. I will not sell or give them my sounds because it would be wrong.

So would it be legal for me to sell them the software to convert there legally owned FXP files to something they can use? If you don't know the answer it is fine. Just thought you might know.If it is not legal to sell the software I will just use it for my personal use.

I use several different e-callers and several different hand calls to hunt with I have no brand loyalty when I hunt. I use what is best for the setup Iam on at the time.
 

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Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on December 22, 2008, 07:26 PM:
 
I just got in on the fun and have the following to say:

Lenonard: CUDOS for permitting everyone to have a fair shot at this rather lively discussion. It has truly been a very good read that I would never see on leg humping PMs.

Bill Mantz: Your CS skills are something to be desired, but desite your lack of people skills, I am going to buy one of your callers before next season. I've heard from several WT owners that they like your caller. With your new product line, you are now much more competitive. This season is almost over for me because of other reponsiblities, so I won't bother to purchase one right now.

I just recently bought a Foxpro Scorpion because I got it at almost 1/2 off. It has called 3 coyotes, and one bobcat in the last month. It works. I still want a WT however.

As per my understanding of the copy right laws. If you own an original piece of work such as a record, a cd, a foxpro caller or a WT caller. The sounds on that unit are yours to modify to play on whatever you want. You bought and paid the royalties when you purchased the record or cd or electronic caller. As long as you own the original source of these sounds(eg, wt caller or foxpro caller) you can modify and play them on whatever sound source you wish. In other words, if you buy a foxpro or wt caller, and rip the sounds off that caller, you can legally install those sounds on a boombox if you wish to call in critters as long as you own the original sound source. This issue came up a long time ago when teenagers would take LPs and turn the music into Cassette tapes. Of course many of you younger than 30 may not no what the hell I'm talking about when I use words like LP and Cassette.
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on December 22, 2008, 07:28 PM:
 
Turbo,
If I sold a DVD and hardware to do it, that would mean that the person would actually have to have the WT unit, not just a bunch of sound-files that they could have illegally obtained via email/download etc. Are you with me on this one? A software program sold to a person who illegally possesses the sound files since they supposedly don't own a FoxPro is an entire different story. Do you see what I am saying here Turbo? Owners of a WT using something to get the sounds off vs. Illegal sounds that somebody possesses is a different scenario isn't it? That is the example that CCP questioned, so I'm answering it. If I explain to somebody how to get their sounds off of a WT, is it illegal Turbo? I have no clue what a person will do with that information once they know how to do it. As an example if I posted a hack for your Cisco Server/Firewall and emailed it to somebody, is it illegal? Or does it become illegal once somebody implements the program? Or if I just hinted the notion of how to do it and let it go from there...would I be guilty? I'll be sure to keep this "top secret" under wraps though since the sound police will be watching me from now on though.
But I guess you still think Martz threatening to come here to harm me and or my family is justified huh? I'm gonna call spade on that one if you think that's even somewhat legit. You're good at snappy answers, but please let me know where you stand on threats to people on a public forum. Don't try to slip this question by claiming my question "threat" about sound file removal and a DVD with hardware to moderators at forums. I'm not selling anything or turning a profit...it's just a fun hobby isn't it? Fun for me anyways helping other hunters improve their older WT units so it's more user friendly and durable in the field. Hard to believe I can get the owner of a company so spun up by asking questions about their products in a free country isn't it?
 

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Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on December 22, 2008, 07:52 PM:
 
It is illegal to copy and distribute DVD movies or so the FBI says at the beginning of each movie. BUT, it is perfectly legal to walk into any store and buy DVD copying software. Why? to make a back-up of your own legally obtained "information"

In Massachusetts it is ok to have Weed, but not rolled or broken down into little baggies. Again, you may have it but do not try to distribute it.

I think the same might apply to sounds, you bought them therefore own them and may do as you wish but as soon as you pass them around, that is the kicker.
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on December 22, 2008, 07:52 PM:
 
CCP,
I honestly do not know the answer to that question. But I'll contact FoxPro and see what they have to say about it. I can guarantee that I'll get an honest, sincere answer though. You probably already know that though since you own a FoxPro and have probably had good customer service with them.

Another question for sound guru's or copyright law attorneys would be this. What if somebody simply recorded the sound coming out of the speaker into their computer to use on another device? Of course, it'd be a crummy quality, but still a legitimate question. Where do we draw the line in terms of recording the sound (at the processor, speaker, flash media...etc.)? Then, where do you draw the line in terms of who does the recordings? If somebody sends me their caller to record their sounds (I don't) but hypothetical question...is it legal? If what Aznative has posted is correct, it really doesn't matter does it?
 

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Posted by turboranger (Member # 3349) on December 22, 2008, 08:32 PM:
 
Tundra so I went back through the post and I could only find where Bill said he was going to come up to Alaska next year to visit you. I looked a couple times but really can't find the verbage of where he is threatening physical harm to you or your family. I did see where he responded back to you about only threatening those that deserve it but again the only thing I see that he said he was going to do was come visit you. Now I would think that a strapping young feller from Alaska wouldn't be too afraid of a wrinkly old bastard like Bill coming to say hello. It would be a curious thing to see if your demeanor would change with him face to face. It is one thing to say all that BS on here but face to face thats much different. Like I stated before I don't need to stick up for Ol' Bill as he is plenty capable. Anyway all of that is settling things like real men and I am ok with that. The moral of this is don't say anything to someone you couldn't say to their face. It looks like he is prepared to but are you? Now as far as this other stuff it comes down to ethics and that is where I hate to say it but behavior like that does earn you the nick name "skinny diminutive weasel" that Bill annointed you with.

[ December 22, 2008, 08:55 PM: Message edited by: turboranger ]
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on December 22, 2008, 09:29 PM:
 
TurboRanger,
The phone conversation with the threat was wonderfully led into with a lot of cussing and hostility. Trust me, he doesn't want to come to have coffee and eat salmon. I'm not worried about dealing with what you call that "man" anytime anywhere though. I'll say everything and ask everything I have on this forum to Bills face, or the phone. If my questions poke into tender areas, that's too bad. If he shows up at my house and is looking for me and talks to my wife using any foul language or rude comments, he'll probably just end up behind bars though as I'd feel bad hurting the old guy. My guess though is he'd probably have 2 or 3 guys (cameraman, audio mic guy..whoever) and simply try to outnumber me. It doesn't really matter though, it'll all be recorded for authorities and I'll probably end up having to sell you WT sounds one day.
Turbo, I've got you pinned to a tee now that I can see you'll stand up for a guy that'll even insinuate a threat to a man or his family. You can PM me or email me if you want to discuss this one further TurboNut, I'm done dealing with you.
You're probably getting half of this stuff direct from Martz anyways, so there's no use trying to let you know what a great guy he is. Again, if you need any work on your WT, I'm here 4 ya.
 

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Posted by turboranger (Member # 3349) on December 23, 2008, 08:55 AM:
 
"TurboNut" Now that has a nice ring to it don't you think? I like it

The shame of this whole thing is this. Playstations, computers etc. often times put "removal of the tag voids warranty" labels on their products. It stops people from one damaging the electronics with ESD or two simply breaking something. It also stops stuff like this from happening. Legal or not legal its all debatable. Unethical its not much of a debate. A simple tag like that or a check of the flash card to see if someone has hacked it and thus voiding their warranty would put a stop to all of this business. How many of us would want to void the warranty on such an expensive toy just to take bad advice from a bonehead? I guess folks could send them to Tundra for repair as he seems to think he is pretty smart and is apparently a repair shop. Doesn't matter what vendor you are its scum like this that make it difficult for you and cost the rest of us.
On the other side of the coin I fully recognize that this stuff happens all of the time in pretty much everything today. It's one thing to quietly back up your stuff etc. However to get on one of these boards and threaten the owner of a company with doing it and helping others do it just to ruffle him up...thats pure stupidity! There is an old saying that if you stir mud alot of times you'll get shit. I learned that from my x-wife now that was a mean woman! <---My-X.
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on December 23, 2008, 11:41 AM:
 
The type of WT's I have typically fixed and modified for people are the older, programmable models. The reason that people come to me is simple. They will get back their programmable unit and it'll work. I don't try to change out their caller with a new, non-programmable unit. When a person paid for and bought X model and is capable of programming the thing themselves, they want to keep that same model. There is no "upgrade" in getting back the non-programmable unit to the user. The old FRS remotes are another thing that are in constant need of repair which I've helped customers with. I don't make any money doing it, it's just a hobby and I like helping hunters with the tools they need.
I hope you all have a great Christmas and Happy New Years.
Thanks Leonard for getting your forum back up and running.
 

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Posted by TheHunt (Member # 3450) on May 31, 2009, 07:26 PM:
 
I am just a hunter looking for an ecaller. So I do not have a dog in this fight. But as an intelligent consumer I look at the PM, F&F, a few other sites,and here as great information as to the calls I would be interested in purchasing. I am just a hunter looking for a good call that I can use for the next five to ten years. I thought you might want a customer’s view of this argument. This is my opinion and my first post on this site.

1. Peter’s emphasis is about gathering as much information he can get from Bill. But Peter loves the WT sounds and having internet support from people who like to watch a train wreck. I categorize many of those posts as they got something for their support or they truly believe they have the best call on the market.

2. Bill has a company he is defending. Most people have no idea all the effort it takes to run a business. Any information that Bill provides Peter and anyone else could be used against his company.

3. If Bill verbally abused me when I initially called him at the initial contact regarding the call. I would not buy from him, period! I can get that from my wife;-) I am assuming that he only acts this way when he does not like someone. I have not called any company yet as I need to build my Pros/Cons list off of my requirements. I would need to find someone who lives near me who would have one of the calls that make my top three calls to that I could listen to them preferably side by side.

4. The best sound’s on the market from reading the threads is WT. If the sounds did not deliver no one would pay any attention to WT and Bill would be out of business.

5. Peter does have some good design questions but if I were Bill I would be very selective what to answer and how I answered it because that information is his company’s competitive advantage and would be considered as trade secrets.

6. FoxPro and WT are pushing each other. This is good for me the consumer. I now have a multitude of calls to select from. The consumer wins in this scenario. I can tell you from my perspective that the sounds are one of the higher weighted criteria when one is building a Pos/Con list against the different calls. If they were not then Peter and most of the others would not be so aggressive.

Peter posted a list of items one should consider when buying a call. Some of those are customer service, trust of the company you are buying from… Well I can tell you with the internet one can put the documented events and smoke a company in short order. Do the BBB, call the state attorney general, etc. Some hunters think that any product they buy should be fixed at the company’s expense even if it is the hunters fault. Hunting is hard on equipment so one needs to see what was posted on these sites and who posted it to determine the real deal on the customer service.

Thank you for letting Bill post. I have had a heck of a time finding very many posts from him. Thanks for letting me join this group.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 31, 2009, 08:29 PM:
 
Welcome to The New Huntmasters, TheHunt. Glad to have you on board.

Yeah, Bill Martz has always been welcome here, he knows it. Occasionally we read something of value, sometimes not. If he would just lock himself in a room without a phone or a computer, and let somebody else do his P.R. work, he'd be a lot better off.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on June 04, 2009, 06:17 PM:
 
Bill has always been good to me and I have not spent more money on his stuff than anyone else, so it ain't a money thing.

Every time we talk I get more than my fair share of info on critters, electronics and whatever poop we decide to talk about.

Peter and Clevenger might have a different story but have you ever tried to read some of these people posting about what a "mean person" Bill has been to them? Come on, some of these guys can't even structure a sentence better than my 2 year old and they want to call and talk electronics and give advice to a person who runs a business. I wouldn't want to answer the phone and do the dance either!
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 04, 2009, 07:01 PM:
 
OMG! Clevenger and Martz don't get along? What about Redfrog and Carey? Lenbo and JohnHenry?
 

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Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on June 04, 2009, 08:30 PM:
 
Don't know anything about Lenbo and John Henry.

Maybe they need a play date or something?
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on June 05, 2009, 09:20 AM:
 
"What about Redfrog and Carey?"

There is no comparison in those two. redfrog is a tub of guts held together by a stout belt two sizes small. Always needs a bath and a haircut.

If I only had the money he has spent on whisky I'd send half to LB and we could both retire to the country.

Slapping him around on the Internet has become a past time, not only for me, but for many.

[ June 05, 2009, 09:20 AM: Message edited by: Dan Carey ]
 

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Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on June 05, 2009, 03:25 PM:
 
yes, many have taken to the sport of frog stomping.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 05, 2009, 03:31 PM:
 
....kinda like bitchslapping, eh?
 

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Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on June 05, 2009, 05:19 PM:
 
sorta
 

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Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on June 06, 2009, 06:40 AM:
 

quote:

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There is no comparison in those two. redfrog is a tub of guts held together by a stout belt two sizes small. Always needs a bath and a haircut.

If I only had the money he has spent on whisky I'd send half to LB and we could both retire to the country.

Slapping him around on the Internet has become a past time, not only for me, but for many.

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