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Author
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Topic: What is better for....
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earthwalker
Cultural Editor & middleweight arm wrestling champion/Intermountain Region
Member # 4177
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posted January 11, 2022 02:11 PM
night hunting? Thermal or night vision?
Don't know a thing about either one.
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another long hot smoky summer coming
Posts: 1105 | From: Intermountain region | Registered: Jul 2012
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 11, 2022 05:54 PM
Well that’s a very deep subject.
First of all, you can still use a visible ight spotlight. Then take your pick, red or amber any switch them as required.
Then, I have not used thermal except when they first came out over 20 years ago and I was not impressed. right now, the technology is vastly improved but I just read an article about one but it was a little over $4K! eek! I mean really, you need to kill a bunch, if your motive is hunting to make a few bucks!
Night vision is a little more reasonable and it is effective if you know what you are doing. I could write a book! Maybe I will?
But both, to do it right means that you need a partner. One hunts with goggles and brings the animal in with coyote vocals or prey sounds. The man with the scoped rifle doesn’t have much to do until that moment of truth. So, with either method, you need to invest in two devices and double the cost.
Now if you say screw that, I’ll just watch with the scoped rifle. Or, there is merit in getting the goggles and using a shotgun. But swinging a scoped rifle sounds good, on paper. You will get tired of that in 30 minutes. In the case of night vision, you can buy IR filter and tape it to the front of a regular spotlight. There are Russian military surplus filters available and you just tape it to the front lens.
Any way you slice it, this requires some investment and dedication. It’s a lot of money just to try it out one weekend.
Another thing is that you need to pay attention to the moon phase. Under a full moon, either method is substantially compromised.
If you are really into this stuff, yeah it’s interesting and fun but it’s not a shortcut to easy coyotes. Like I mentioned, for the curious, it’s still thousands $ just to try it. Also,like I mentioned before, second generation Russian gear is available if you look around.
Good hunting. El Bee 🐝
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31470 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 11, 2022 11:23 PM
Tim says to tell you that Thermal is, quote: “the cats ass!”
(he said you’d know what he means)
Do you?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31470 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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earthwalker
Cultural Editor & middleweight arm wrestling champion/Intermountain Region
Member # 4177
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posted January 12, 2022 04:05 AM
I haven't a clue.
Also this is for wolf hunting. It can't be used for coyotes in Idaho.
Just curious.
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another long hot smoky summer coming
Posts: 1105 | From: Intermountain region | Registered: Jul 2012
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NVWalt
Does not claim to be overly bright!
Member # 375
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posted January 12, 2022 05:03 AM
My son in law has a setup on his AR that is electronic and big and heavy and needs a big heavy battery. You need a swivel mount just to operate the gun,not really but it is heavy and cumbersome. BUT----- It sure does work well when you turn the switch on, I mean it turns night into day. I was totally impressed with it but it is rather expensive and really is a bulky set up. Can't recollect the name of it but I am sure a search will find what I am talking about
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Support Communism and help destroy the United States of America ! VOTE DEMOCRAT. "In the end, they aren't coming after me. They are coming after you!" D.Trump
Posts: 638 | From: Tellico Plains, TN | Registered: Aug 2004
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Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
Member # 506
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posted January 12, 2022 09:04 AM
Arizona Game and Fish sucks IMHO. We cannot use Thermal and night vision. We cannot even have a spot light connected to the car which means we have to lug a battery around for adequate light time. Consider yourself lucky earthwalker for having those options.
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Never thought the devil would need a teleprompter but I could be wrong.
United State of America: RIP
Born July 4th 1776 died November 6th 2012
Posts: 1926 | From: Phoenix Az | Registered: Jan 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted January 12, 2022 04:39 PM
Testing. Hi 
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5071 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted January 13, 2022 09:02 AM
Hi again. I've hunted with lights and have a Night vision scope for spotting and now have a ATN Thor-4 thermal in a bind can get by with any of them, but you also get what you pay for and be restricted by what you have. The more you pay the better the glass or should we say what you want to see and how far away you want to see it. Depending on what thermal you get they all come with a few bells and whistles or are loaded with all kinds on neat features like camera or video mode different cross-hair styles and also different colors ect. ect. If you just want to see and kill things you can get by with a med. priced thermal which will run about 1500-2000 grand. It took me two years before I decided to bite the bullet on one. My thermal is not much bigger than a reg. high power scope and runs about the same weight and you can mount it on most any rifle you like. I have mine mounted on a bolt action rifle with a heavy varmint barrel but a light weight rifle will work just as well. Reason I went heavy is it was all I could get at the time and it also sits better when I have it clamped onto the Bog-pod shooting rest which is a must have for added support and you need to be standing when calling at night so you can cover the area around you 360 degree's. With my thermal I can see a deer at a half mile and little better on nights that have less moisture in the air, moisture is not your friend when it comes to thermal, it will reduce how far you can see to identify your target as the site picture tends to get grainy. I can pick up a field mouse out to 200-300 yards on good nights in a plowed field. ATN has worked well for me, and they have their own site you can check into and a hot line to answer any questions about the thermals and they also sell refurbished thermals with full warranty and at a lower price. There are three brands of thermals that are pretty dam good and at the moument there names slip my memory. In my thermal battery life is the best for the brands out there and can go all night before I recharge it and the other brands have a small battery pack you can carry for extra juice if you run out which you will on some brands. I have a extra power pack for mine but have not had to use it. If it's raining or snowing just stay home as the thermal image will get really grainy and as well, you will get a grainy image if humidity is real high. Full moon or no moon image is pretty good but take note when you are out on a full moon night with no clouds you will have a better image facing east or west depending on what time of night and where you live, still good to go though. Once you got a thermal set up and working for you the hardest part is estimating distances, so make sure you kind of know how the area is before dark so you have some things to go by for judging distance. there is a few cross-hairs in your selection depending on what brand you get that you can use the cross-hair to judge the distance by placing the body of the coyote in it or should say cover it up. Since judging distance can be a hassle a good fast flat shooting cartridge would be the route to go as you will have less drop and not drop as fast. The rifle I'm using at moment is chambered in 22-250 and I feel it's a little on the slow side with a 52 gr. bullet. If you have the time to hunt you won't regret getting a thermal, its a whole new world with one. Thanks.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5071 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted January 13, 2022 09:24 AM
the other two thermal company's is Trijcon and Pulsar (spelling)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5071 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 13, 2022 10:50 AM
I'm chewing on the above statement by Earthwalker. She says you can use thermal, (in Idaho) for hunting wolves, (which are heavily protected, almost everywhere) but can't use thermals for hunting coyotes, which aren't protected by anybody? Huh? WTF?
I continue to see rules set down by state game and fish agencies that never seem to make any sense! I'm pretty sure they make these illogical rules, because they can. VERY LITTLE JUSTIFICATION!
Oh well, we are just the little people who follow rules blindly.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31470 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted January 13, 2022 11:53 AM
I'm chewing on night vision that can distinguish between a wolf and a coyote in the dark at a couple of hundred yards ??
Seems like it would be easier, cheaper and less loss of sleep just to buy some traps. Big strong ones.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7584 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted January 13, 2022 06:50 PM
thermal will allow you to see the difference from a wolf or coyote as long as you know what each of them looks like from the start. Same for dog vrs. coyote but there have been some Noobs to thermal that have shot farm dogs by mistake (big idiot on their part)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5071 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 13, 2022 08:52 PM
I’m sure that happens with the “hunters” that just shoot eyes. Even with my technology, visible light, those eyes really lite up. Exactly the same as a farm dog. People have been killing dogs and deer and just about any farm critter you can think of, for many years. But, it’s the rank amateur that’s doing it. A real coyote hunter knows the difference, just in the way each of them responds to a call. Only the coyote circles downwind. Thefarmdog comes straight in, He won’t bother with the wind direction, they are “guileless” probably because Farmer John has been feeding him since he was weened. Any survival instincts he ever had, were suppressed a long time ago.
Good hunting. El Bee 🐝
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31470 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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earthwalker
Cultural Editor & middleweight arm wrestling champion/Intermountain Region
Member # 4177
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posted January 14, 2022 05:24 AM
Ko Ko, already have the traps and have already gotten 2 this season.
This new law that was voted in this season for the wolves is fairly liberal.
Other half and I was talking about thermal and night vision neither one of us has been around and was curious. We'll probably never buy either one. We're not night people.
Other half found a wolf carcuss skinned out shot. It's really hard to see wolves in the day light. We were thinking it was called in with night vision or something along those lines.
Someone shot 2 wild horses this fall in the same area and the wolves really jumped on them big time. Free lunch. Now the BLM is all up in arms over the horses being shot. This is a wild horse area.
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another long hot smoky summer coming
Posts: 1105 | From: Intermountain region | Registered: Jul 2012
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted January 14, 2022 06:46 AM
Wow .......... That must be a rush coming up and finding a wolf in the trap. !!! 'Course then you gotta haul the thing out & back to the truck.
Question; ..... Thinking out loud;
As I remember from living back east, do you really need night vision ?? Snow + moonlight + about half an hour in the dark and the eyes can see pretty well.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7584 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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earthwalker
Cultural Editor & middleweight arm wrestling champion/Intermountain Region
Member # 4177
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posted January 14, 2022 08:55 AM
The first of December it was 52 degrees and no snow when I got my elk.
Snow has been on the ground about 3 weeks now. When this wolf was shot it had just started to snow. Fall is longer and snow season shorter anymore. Most of the hunters were out during the late cow and second antler less seasons.
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another long hot smoky summer coming
Posts: 1105 | From: Intermountain region | Registered: Jul 2012
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 14, 2022 08:56 AM
Yeah, that's not the best conditions. It's better if there's no moon, high pressure, meaning cloudless. In fact, I say it all the time, that I usually hunt under a new moon. If the moon comes up early or late, you have a window of darkness. Now, I don't know about thermal, I'm talking about other methods, thermal, I have no experience with, except when they first came out and they were a waste of time, what was available commercially.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31470 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted January 14, 2022 12:12 PM
Thermal each state is different on what you can use it on and what you can't. Here it can be used for coyotes and fox but cannot be used for any other game. You look through a thermal and scan the area you will pick up most anything that puts off heat from a mouse to a cow, bigger the heat source the farther you can see it. Speaking of wolves, they had a season last year in Wisc. where wolves could be taken with a gun, trap or use of dogs. Yes you read that right they run them with dogs that are 23-26" tall and weigh from 40-60 pounds. The key here is to hunt the fridges of there core area and find a pair or better yet a loner then its game on, stay away from a pack of wolves and dogs be just fine. My friend in Wisc.and some of his buddies took 3 wolves last year with the dogs.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5071 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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