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Author
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Topic: Bullet question
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Yotehntr
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3684
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posted December 30, 2015 07:50 PM
From what I've seen the .17 crowd really liked the 25 gr target Bergers for coyotes. I was wondering if anyone uses the 50gr target bergers for coyotes? I was thinking about giving them a try in my 22-250 and was just wondering if it was a bad road to try.
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Posts: 53 | From: Murfreesboro, TN | Registered: Oct 2010
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Moe
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4494
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posted December 31, 2015 08:15 AM
I've been using the Berger 52 grain Match Varmints for coyotes. When I was working up a load for my Kimber 84M Classic I found two loads that were very accurate. The loads were similar on paper and I wound up loading the lower velocity load and took it to the field. My first couple of outings I killed a total of 7 coyotes with the load including a coyote I measured at 400+ yards. The results were pretty good. Sometimes the bullet didn't exit and nothing was torn up too bad.
I later discovered my error and loaded up the faster load at max or near max. Still had great accuracy. First time out I killed two coyotes with it. Only difference was the coyotes were blown apart. I mean bad.
I have a friend in Eastern Oregon who told me that he went from the Berger MV's to the plain Match bullets because of the destructiveness of the MV's. He says he has good luck with it in his 22-250.
Bergers are the most accurate bullets I've found for all of my predator rifles. 204, 222mag, 223 AI, 3 22-250's and a 220 Swift.
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I snatch kisses. And vice versa.
Posts: 593 | From: Oregon | Registered: Nov 2013
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Yotehntr
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3684
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posted December 31, 2015 02:48 PM
Thanks Moe! I asked about the target bullets in particular because I have used the Berger varmints in the past in my .223, I wasn't happy with the explosive results and wondered if the "target" might do better but was concerned if the would expand enough. The varmints shot very well, that's why I thought I might check out the target line.
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Yotehntr Calls Put something pretty on your lips! ;)
Posts: 53 | From: Murfreesboro, TN | Registered: Oct 2010
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Moe
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4494
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posted December 31, 2015 03:20 PM
A few years ago I talked to one of the guys at Berger and he told me that the MV's were the way to go. He said that the bullet did a lot of damage and often didn't exit which is what I found with the lower velocity load loaded well under max.
He also said that the regular match bullets have a hard jacket and aren't meant to be a hunting load. The smaller hole in the bullet makes it so the bullet doesn't have the necessary expansion.
I've never shot a coyote with the match bullet. I've only heard from my friend in eastern Oregon.
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I snatch kisses. And vice versa.
Posts: 593 | From: Oregon | Registered: Nov 2013
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 01, 2016 09:18 AM
On the other hand, I have used many match bullets over the years. In some respects, it matters what your objective is, like kill them dad but with little or no damage.
Since I have done more contests than most people, I don't care about damage, I just want bang/flop where I don't have to track cripples; especially at night.
But, I can attest to using a target bullet, if you can find the right combination of speed and terminal effect. I used, almost exclusively, match bullets in my 220Swift. For me, the best was the Speer 52 Gold Match. Next was the 53 Hornady match and third the Sierra 53 Match flat base.
All you have to do is look at the hollow-point on that Speer Gold match and you can see where it does one of two things. It will stay inside and make a complete mess....or it will exit while making a complete mess.
All you people that shoot 100 yard coyotes can tailor your MV to do what you want, but if you are going to be killing some at 50 yards and some at 300 yards, I don't know what to tell you, BUT
Pick a bullet that has a thicker jacket or some type of harder jacket material. Example: I used a Burger 65 grain bullet, and now use a Starke 65 grain bullet for relatively long range range coyotes at night. This bullet(s) performs consistent in that it always exits a coyote, the off side is around a quarter t a half dollar size, so it doesn't expand at my velocities. Initial MV is 3925 and I don't know what it's doing at 300 but it still passes through without blowing shit up. Now, if you happen to shoot through both shoulders, expect damage, but lung shots; very nice Bang/flops.
In 24 caliber, wow, much experience with 80/85 grain bullets but for daylight stands, just to kill them dead, two bullets come to mind. First is the 70 gr. Hornady HP and the other is the 70 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip. These are so destructive at 6MM and 243 Velocities that I can and have killed running coyotes drilled through both hips. So, for depredation, that's a good choice. Other than that, there is no such thing as a good fur bullet for a 243W, they all cause damage, in some cases, a lot of damage.
Vic would be a good one to talk about 17 caliber damage, might even have an opinion on 19 caliber damage, or lack of? But, for killing coyotes at moderate ranges without big damage, a 17 seems like the way to go? Where I part company is beyond about 200 yards. 17 users never seem to mention any runners, I guess they are all of the John Henry School of Surgical Precision? Hey, whatever happened to him?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Moe
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4494
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posted January 01, 2016 04:11 PM
Back when I was in the Pasadena chapter of the old CVCA I started off with a Sako Forester 243 but had some problems with it. Don Carper who owned Cole's Sporting Goods in Inglewood told me that he was the Sako distributor and told me to bring the rifle to him which I did. When he looked the rifle over he could see that the stock was warping something awful and told me to grab a new Forester off the shelf. I walked down the row looking for the best looking piece of wood and saw that he had the new 22-250's in. I asked if I had to stay with a 243 and he said no, just as long as it was a Forester.
That 22-250 killed a whole bunch of coyotes, bobcats, badgers and foxes. I used the Sierra 52 grain match HP with great success. Over all those years and critters I can't remember a single runoff. Even a bad hit meant a clean kill.
Fast forward a bunch of years. I can't find a load to match my old Dupont IMR 4895 behind the Sierra 52 gr BTHP so I've moved on over to Berger.
Sierra Bullets was in Santa Fe Springs about 2 blocks from where I worked back in the 60's. I don't know if the bullet has changed or if it's the Hodgdon IMR 4895 but the load doesn't perform like it once did.
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I snatch kisses. And vice versa.
Posts: 593 | From: Oregon | Registered: Nov 2013
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 02, 2016 08:53 AM
Hey, I have been on the grand tour of the old Sierra plant, including the range downstairs. I thought the whole thing was just great. They used to sell "blems" at the front office, maybe floor sweepings? and some oddballs here and there, for steep discounts. I have a friend that was very enthusiastic about those bargain bullets, and he still lives close by in Whittier so I bet he's sorry to see them gone, for sure.
Personally, I wouldn't touch "blems" with a ten foot pole. Seems counterproductive? I used to load their 200gr. for 45ACP and, that I would buy as a blem, but not rifle bullets.
But, you know, everybody has their favorites. One thing I decided a long time ago was that I did not like the Sierra 52gr. BTHP. So, (lol) I'm not surprised you are having trouble with performance.
I have said it before and say it again: I have no use for boat tail bullets, unless strictly used for targets or steel. I have seen evidence they will "squirt the core", on game.
Besides, I am a firm believer in using the most accurate bullet I can find and they all seem to have a flat base? I have proved to my own satisfaction that flat base is the way to go.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted January 02, 2016 09:36 AM
Sierra moved to MO many years ago. I took the tour of the plant, back in the 90's I think. Don't really remember it was many years back. Bunch of antiquated machines. I watching how they used a hammer to adjust some of the machines, really surprised me. I guess growing up with a grandfather and two brothers that were/are tool and die makers, some of that rubs off on ya.
I have bought literally 100's of lbs of blems from them. However some of them were for other people. The drive was/is about 150 miles each way.
There used to be an older gal there that would bag up say 5 lbs of 55gr SBT's or the 52gr HPBT's and only charge you for about 1/2 of the real weight. I still have a bunch of the seconds or blems.
Then they switched to a younger girl, and that gal basically weighed the sack to the bullet. The bargain just wasn't there anymore. Family, friends, and I have killed many MO whitetails, coyotes, and paper targets with their bullets. I don't think I would use them for elk, moose or big bears. I would choose a different manufacturers bullets for that.
I get great accuracy with their 52's but didn't like the performance on coyotes either.
I have loaded may 40gr HP's in the 223 and 221FB for the kids to shoot at the range and just goof around with.
I just bought a Kimber Montana, in 223 and have been playing with the 55 SBT's in it. Actually plan on going to the range with it today.
edited to
OK, getting back to the 17 question. Ole John-Henry en-lighted me to the 25gr Bergers and the 17 Rem. They worked great and I stocked up on them. Have enough to last many years. Vic and I discussed the Hornady 25gr HP, and I use them also now. I "believe" he prefers them. You have to listen when an Original "Coyote God" speaks. kind of like EF Hutton.
With all this praise may I can get him to take me out hunting when I get out there. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Now however, I am using a 17-204 mostly when I grab a 17 cal.. I use 30 gr bullets in it exclusively, either Kinder Golds or Chan Nagels bullets. Worked on coyotes, bobcats and a cougar.
[ January 02, 2016, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: DanS ]
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Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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Moe
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4494
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posted January 02, 2016 09:48 AM
I started going to Sierra when I got my 222. I was looking for a bullet to use in it so I could actually kill coyotes rather than watch them run off to die somewhere else. They gave me a few Sierra 50 grain Spitzer Blitz bullets and told me to try them out. They were the ticket.
They took me on a tour of the plant and then into the basement where they tested bullets and loads. Talk about cool!
They also told me about factory seconds I could buy by the lb. but only when they were running those bullets. I got my Sierra Expert Award using factory second 52 gr HPBT's. I still have it.
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I snatch kisses. And vice versa.
Posts: 593 | From: Oregon | Registered: Nov 2013
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 03, 2016 07:58 AM
There are many reasons for "blems" or "seconds". Some, of course, might not be up to standards, can't get out of QC, (quality control).
But it can also be because some bonehead dumped a whole tray of a certain type into the wrong bin and they have no intention of separating them by hand....stuff like that. Therefore, some of those seconds might be the most accurate bullet you ever shot because they are top quality, with a few 50gr spitzers mixed in with a bunch of 55 gr. spitzers.
I don't care about accuracy in handgun bullets, but with the effort I take in all aspects of shooting, I do not want to start out with a questionable powder, primer, cases or bullet.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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