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Author
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Topic: building a light or lighter weight rifle
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted December 21, 2014 10:35 AM
OK guys, what do you all consider to be the ideal weight rifle for day time cowtz calling?
I picked up a wally world Rem SPS ADL that was on sale a little while back. $302 and then mail in the rebate and get another $35 back. Wish I would have bought a couple more now.
But anyways this 223Rem weighed in at 7lbs-12 oz. That is including the high dollar scope and mounts that came with it. I'll probably sell those to Vic. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
My little CZ527 with mounts and a Leupy 3x9x40 goes 7-4ozs. Surprisingly my little Plas-Tikka 22=250 with a Zeiss 3-9x40 comes in at 7-7oz.
Though most of my rifles range from ~8.5 to ~9 lbs. Getting down to 8 isn't that hard, but getting to 7 lbs is a challenge, especially is you don't want to spend boo-coo bucks. (sorry spell police, I'm not too good with French words).
So, what are you all carrying, and prefer?
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 21, 2014 11:04 AM
I did something a while back that went against several things I espouse.
I bought a stainless fluted Model 700 in 223 a chambering that does not impress me, much. Then, to make matters worse, I sent it in to have it punched to Ackley, even before a round was fired. By the time I got talked into the Sako extractor, the bill was just over $450.
Yes, it's light, I don't remember exactly but it is noticeably lighter than anything I was using previously. On a stand, it is quite a bit more shaky than an eight and a half to nine pound rifle. But, where I took it in the ass is on performance, I could only get about 50 fps over a stock 223Remington, at least in coyote killing weights - 55 grains. It's a standard 12 twist, BTW.
So, after using it for two seasons, I had a cripple get up and run off, and with two people shooting, he got away; and that, in itself was kinda unbelievable.
That's when I started the thought process of building the ideal coyote stand rifle, from scratch. You know/everybody has a dream.
But then I got offered this 22-243Middlested which is (probably) a nine pound rifle? Haven't weighed it, sorry. It's a win, win situation. No one year wait. No exorbitant costs and the damned thing shoots as good as any daylight stand rifle is expected to.
So, I had forgotten, (or suppressed) how hard the 223Ackley was to hold on longish shots. The extra pound and a half tends to take care of that shaky stuff.
So, that's where I'm at.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31447 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted December 21, 2014 11:38 AM
My 22-250 Ackley weighs 9 1/2 lbs (Remington 700 ADL 26" Shilen SS barrel, Leupold 4.5x14 40mm scope).
My 17 Ackley Hornet weighs 6 1/4 lbs (Thompson contender carbine 24" Shilen SS barrel Leupold 3.5x10 40mm scope)
My 17 Tactical weighs 6 1/2 lbs (Thompson contender carbine 25" Shilen SS barrel Swarovski 2x10 42mm scope)
I could list more guns but these three are my main guns I shoot.
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Dave Allen
Hi, I'm SUPER DAVE, IN CHARGE OF Q STUFF (and Goat Leader) "I'm really not trying to be a dick".
Member # 3102
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posted December 21, 2014 11:40 AM
I'm not sure ? As far as I can tell my Ruger with a 2x7 Leupold goes just over 7lbs with a 22" barrel. My bath scale isn't digital.
Sometimes say on a morning of calling. I just park the rig and walk a big loop making stands along the way. Sometimes this can be successful and provides a good workout. A lite rifle is much appreciated.
However, Leonard brings up a good point regarding shakiness. A few summers ago, I spent quite a bit of time @ the range. Shooting just off sticks, practice is a good thing.
Also, I've been shooting just off sticks the last few springs while shooting sage rats, leaving my shooting table behind. I have some buddy's that come from Washington state every year and we like to swap rifles now and then. When I shoot what's probably a 10lb rifle it's a noticeable difference in shakiness.
Sooo kinda give and take in my opinion. Lite is good when walking a bunch. I guess, I would have to say a 7-8 lb rifle is probably about right for a daytime calling rig.
Posts: 1986 | From: Jordan Valley Oregon | Registered: Aug 2008
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted December 21, 2014 01:09 PM
I don't have Parkinson's and tend to shoot light rifles just fine. Yes I tried bull barrels and heavy stocks but shoot my light guns the same.
My 243AI is a 700 with a 22" #1 contoured Douglas with a Remington TI takeoff stock. Talley light weight ring mounts support a 3.5-10 scope and it weighs 7.5 lbs.
Taking a good thing further I have Kimber Montana's with the same Talley ring mounts and 3.5-10 scopes in 204 Ruger, 22-250AI and 223AI that weigh 6.5 lbs including their slings and 9 rounds stuck in the stock packs.
If starting from scratch, I've yet to see a cheaper way to get into a light rifle that shoots. The stock design is excellent and light, the barreled action is SS and trim yet they shoot.
 [/URL]
If there's a better light rifle out there, I'd like to see it.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
Member # 29
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posted December 21, 2014 01:22 PM
I think it's (obviously) different for every individual.
Im a daytime caller that likes to make a lot of stands most of the time. I drive, park, and walk to my stands. Lugging a heavy, cumbersome rifle just blows, I dont give a crap how accurate or badass it is. I much prefer a sporter weight/shaped rifle for good, fast handling on stand. If I was shooting prarie dogs or trying to pretend Im a sniper, it would be different. My main shooter is a 700 ADL, 22-250 with syn stock, plain ol 4x12 Leupold scope. Its a tad bit lighter than stock, but not to light.
Being able to get steady on long shots is important, Ill find a way to do that as best I can... but the overall odds/percentages, or whatever you want to call it, are, at least for me... that calling coyotes present way more up close and personal, to medium range shots, also running shots, and Ive had way more success with the average weight/build rifle than trying to swing a telephone pole around on stand, or sruggle with coat catching pistol grips/accesories etc.
Mark
edit; main calling rifle...dont laugh at the giant el cheapo necker knob on the scope!
 001 by Lonehowl, on Flickr
[ December 21, 2014, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]
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When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
Posts: 2083 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2003
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted December 21, 2014 03:47 PM
quote:
..dont laugh at the giant el cheapo necker knob on the scope!
I could use a few of them on my Leupold VXII's. You need a GI JOE Kungfu grip to turn some of mine. ...And no, it's not the rings too tight, I tried it before mounting. I got a handful of them I am about to send back to Leupold.
Tom what kind of groups are you getting with your Kimbers? I hear they are hit or miss as far as accuracy. I'd love to get one in 7mm-08, 22-250 AI, and 223 AI.
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted December 21, 2014 05:04 PM
I heard that too...
My first one was the 204 Ruger, I traded for it in the middle of cat season so I bought a box of factory ammo and sighted in.
 [/URL]
I later bedded the rifle and worked up a load with the 40 gr Berger's
 [/URL]
It shoots the 35 and 40 Berger's as well as the 40 gr Hornady's to the same point of aim.
The next one was a 243 that I never fired, sent it off and had a Douglas barrel screwed on in 22-250AI 1/8 twist factory contour duped. The 75 Amax's just didn't jive.
 [/URL]
It was either speed or decent accuracy but not both. I ran out of time and tried the 55 gr NBT's.
 [/URL]
I settled on 40.5 grs and I do moly my bullets.
I haven't fired the 223AI yet, a good friend bought it new and it shot just under 1" groups. I sent it off and had it set back and punched but haven't shot it yet.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted December 21, 2014 05:10 PM
Leonard youre a great guy! Merry Christmas.
Anyway I try to keep good notes and have a bag of targets as well as chronographed results for everything. I had to go sort through them to post the pics but it should ease the tale of will they shoot or not.
[ December 21, 2014, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: TOM64 ]
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted December 21, 2014 05:35 PM
quote:
I haven't fired the 223AI yet, a good friend bought it new and it shot just under 1" groups. I sent it off and had it set back and punched but haven't shot it yet.
Want to sell it?
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 21, 2014 05:43 PM
I did not. Must be something you did?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31447 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted December 21, 2014 05:56 PM
Sorry Leonard, it must have been me cause it's working now. I'll figure this iPhone internet out eventually.
No Dan I am gonna keep it. Just waiting on summer heat to work up loads. That's the only downside to Montana's, you can't find them.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted December 21, 2014 05:58 PM
I switched loads to 39.0 grs of RL-15 with the 55NBT's, no moly. Shoots the same, at about 3800fps If I remember correctly
Finally figured this picture thing out for here.
[ December 21, 2014, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: DanS ]
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
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posted December 21, 2014 06:43 PM
Rem M-7 6mmAI 24" Shilen #2 McMillan classic
Zeiss 3x9 Divari 8lbs
Browning Safari 257Rbts AI 24" Shilen #3 McMillan classic Leupold 2.5x8 9lbs
A couple CZ's 223 Leupold 1.75x6 appx 7lbs (probably the same as Dan's). The other one is a 223 carbine W/18.5" Zeiss Diatal 4x appx. 6.75lbs
Colt 223 16" light barrel collapsible stock 5.75lbs
Colt 223 16" Hbar (heavy barrel) 2.5x8 Leupold just under 8lbs
CZ 452 LUX 22mag* 24" 1.5x5 Leupold 5.5 lbs
* I only use it after legal light per Okla Game Laws on Coyotes, cats and other varmints are fair game at any hour.
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mike
Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted December 23, 2014 05:15 AM
.17Predator is a Model Seven w/#3 Lilja @ 24", Rem AWR stock, weighs right at 8 lbs, all up with a little Kahles on top. Been wanting to add a bit of mass to the butt of the stock, as the rifle is a bit too front heavy for my liking. The buttpad is friggin' glued on & just haven't got to fussing with it, yet...
.22-243 is a Seven, #3 Krieger @ 26", GameScout & Premier, all up weighs 9 lbs, 9oz.
.22-243AI, scoped with sling, stock pack, and loaded mag, weighs 11 lbs. 2oz.
That may sound overly heavy to some, but I've kinda come full circle on the lightweight topic. And the AR topic, too.
At the point now where I'd rather tote an extra couple pounds and enjoy the benefit of added stability and recoil absorption they allow. Not about being "tacticool" or "sniper-ific", moreso about realizing my own shortcomings. Heck, I need all the help I can get, as I'm not a particularly good shot, and get to shakin' like a whore in church after "coyote overload" sets in! In that regard, a bit of heft on the shootin' stix is a welcomed feeling for me...
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 23, 2014 07:32 AM
That's about where I'm at, as far as a rifle used solely for daylight coyote stands.
When we start talking about lightweight walking around rifles, I haul out my Model 600, a rifle that has been with me for so many years, I've lost count. But, it killed every animal in Africa, I never fired my 300 after sighting it in, and when I'm gone, my son and grandsons will have a hell of a fight over who get's it!
So, driving, parking the truck and walking out XX? yards, the light weight isn't really a factor.
It's a different situation if I decide to do a "walkabout". That's when you want to get in a little deeper and travel a circle route that will eventually get you back to where you started. They are most rewarding, but time consuming, and I remember being about three miles out and dragging three large coyotes over hill and dale, and thinking I didn't plan it for all eventualities.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31447 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
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posted December 23, 2014 09:00 AM
Good topic Dan, because it forced me to weigh some of my most used rifles. I was somewhat surprised at what they weighed "ready to hunt." Which means they were heavier than I would have guessed.
My main coyote rifle is a Rem 700 22-250 with a #3 Krieger 24" barrel, McMillan Classic stock, 3.5-10x40 Leupold. All ready to roll with sling attached and 4 rounds in the mag, it comes in at 8.6 lbs. Heck, the sling and ammo weigh almost a half pound.
My lightest rifle is Rem M7 in .260 with a #2 Lilja at 22" with a lightweight McMillan Edge Mountain Rifle stock and 3x9x40 Leupold. Ready to roll, this one is 7.5 lbs. Before weighing, I would have swore this rifle was around 7 lb. Dry weight probably is close to that.
I've found I prefer a rifle in the 8-8.5 lb range ready to hunt for coyote calling in my area. The extra .5-1 lb weight doesn't bother me and I walk a lot over rough country. For me, an 8 lb. rifle settles down on sticks or pod quickly, but can still be swung easily and packed all day without any problems.
Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
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posted December 23, 2014 11:58 AM
re: Tom64's Kimber 204Ruger, at present I'm pretty much set for rifles but if I decided to by a 204 or 22-250 it will probably be a Kimber "Oklahoma". I have shot his 204R, and other than kicking the snot outa me (just kidding!) it has a really good balance even with a 3.5x10 Leupold scope on top of it. Just me but my scope of choice would be in the 1.5x5 Leupold or something close to that in size and weight.
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mike
Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 23, 2014 01:15 PM
Aside from that, the 3.5X10 is a great all around scope. I used to have two but sold one; wish I hadn't.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31447 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
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posted December 23, 2014 02:00 PM
LB, I started out using a 4x Leupold, (back in the day) then evolved to the higher powered fixed scopes but for some reason (probably hunting things that would stomp the dust outta ya) I tried a 1.5x5 Leupold and changed my opinion about the must-have-it is of high magnification scopes mounted on a walking hunter weight rifle. I shoot quite a bit offhand and the lower power variables (in good glass) hits my sweet spot when less than perfect broadside shots are all there is.
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mike
Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 23, 2014 02:07 PM
My Model 600 has a 2.5X8X36 Leupold on it. I think it's a good solution. But, everybody has their own concept.
Good hunting. El Bee
BTW my 223Ackley also has a 2.5X8X36, but it's silver.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31447 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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