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Author
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Topic: BIG problems with Kansas night hunting!!!
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted October 18, 2022 11:59 AM
Haha, wanted to be like the MSM and post FAKE NEWS headline!
Recently had the occasion for a mano y mano with our state furbearer biologist and asked him how the last 2 seasons of hunting coyotes had gone. Any problems?
Absolutely nada. Zero. Zilch! Nothing either significant or insignificant to report. None of the predicted explosions in poaching, or misidentifying cattle, holes in houses. No landowner complaints or game wardens being run ragged. In fact, a COMPLETE SUCCESS!
Just like we said it would be.
Hunting coyotes at night requires only a general hunting permit, resident or non-resident, and for the past 2 years, a special $1 night hunting permit to provide them with the data they needed to measure its success. Appears that they have gotten the data they needed and the news is very, very good. It's popular! Imagine that.
Now, the question remains as to whether it will have the impact they hope for - reducing coyote numbers. The three years prior to night hunting, Kansas saw coyote populations that had tripled in many areas and the average number of pelts going to market during the Canada Goose coat days was just north of 175,000 pelts. That doesn't count incidental kills and a shitload of dead mange balls that were left to rot. I don't know that any other state can approach those numbers.
I asked him about expansions, specifically asking if we might see night calling coons as a management tool while fur markets are tanking. Not uncommon to find the ground around cottonwood den trees littered with dead coons from parvo, etc., by late January when they start clustering up for breeding. He said he did not know about that, and that bobcats were a hard "no". He also said they were likely to do away with the special night hunting permit as well.
Now comes intel that, contrary to what most other states are doing, our bobcat and furbearer seasons might be extended an additional 2 weeks to the last day of February. Our state association and furbuyers all lobbied for this since 'cat populations are stable to growing and their pelts are good clear into March. Don't forget the extra benefit from having steel in the ground to remove predators right ahead of nesting time.
About thirty years ago, furbearer seasons ended on January 31, along with upland game. The state asked a group of us to submit recommendations on how we could improve trapping success on state lands to improve nesting survival in game birds. We asked for them to give us 2 weeks more so our people could get onto those acres and trap nest predators without fear of catching bird dogs. They did so. Has worked splendidly. This new rumor would be a big plus for us being able to help even more.
Make fun of KS if you will, but when the idea of night hunting was being debated by our commission, two of them had been inundated with opposition emails from outside Kansas. One of the commissioners echoed two points I made in repeated letters and emails to them in the run up to their vote when he stated, on the record, that they should let the facts influence their policies, rather than feelings, and my favorite, "we don't need non-Kansans telling us how to manage our wildlife."
A lot of the commentary I offered to back this effort came from some of you guys.You had a part in this. Thank you.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted October 22, 2022 02:34 PM
Kinda interesting.
First off, one of my pet peeves is the accidents, misidentifying, and particularly the fear of poaching other game such as deer and other game and stock including horses. There's very little chance of changing minds, it's been ingrained for generations, without any proof or data.
I don't understand that hard no on bobcat? Cat's are every bit as nocturnal as red and gray fox and more nocturnal than coyotes, especially pressured coyotes. So, it's really ignorant to disallow night hunting. It's like fishing without hooks and nets.
Negative people should not be the ones making rules and regulations.
I remember a deal well over 50 years ago where there was a rancher who had some of the finest breeding stock in the country but he was having a lot of trouble during calving. So, he contacted our state organization and asked for help. He was more than 400 miles away, but these were guys that lived for the pursuit of predators and it was at their own expense, a curtesy and a favor.
So, there were around 10 teams that made the trip and the rancher told us where to go on his extensive property, maps and detailed instructions, he personally unlocked gates scattered around a very large spread.
The problem was that our guys were seeing very few coyotes and very little luck, and this was people that definitely knew what they were doing.
Then, one team was so discouraged after 3 full nights of unproductive hunting so they were headed back towards the main gate and decided to make a stand, no shooting because they were strongly cautioned, kids and family sleeping and you can't be too careful, etc etc. But, close in around the ranch buildings, they saw eyes everywhere.
It turned out that this fella knew where he was having losses, but out of an abundance of caution, he didn't want any shooting around his occupied dwellings, so He figured, since we were all experts, we could call those coyotes ten miles away, up in the hills where no stray shots would endanger his family and his ranch hands who all lived in a nice little community and he also kept his stock close by where he could keep an eye on them.
It was all bullshit, a waste of time and effort and while willing to do a favor, there was a lack of honesty and ignorance in how night calling worked.
At night, there are no people walking around in the woods, and if there were, you would see a vehicle, or a campfire or at least a flashlight, if they happened to be walking around in the dead of night. But, it doesn't matter, at night you can see everything and anything out of place. You can see vehicles and tents and people aren't walking around anyway. In short, night hunting, in my more than 50 years of experience is easily the safest hunting there is. Deer hunters get shot, turkey hunters get shot, predator hunters never shoot at just eyes, which is a common misconception. It's just as rare as those ignorant non resident hunters shooting horses and cattle. I'll tell you right now, it's local idiots that are shooting misidentified animals. People coming from far away places and paying exorbitant license fees that are always at least ten times higher than what the locals pay for a tag. I don't know why that big fat lie is perpetuated towards serious non resident hunters? In my experience, it's locals that violate law and poach, not very serious people from other states.
Well, I'm off on a tangent, but I've got some strong opinions about the relations and the dynamics of contact between the locals and the non resident hunters. It's endemic and ingrained and it's just human nature. But non res hunters always have better success ratios because they are committed and they have considerable money invested in the hunt. Also, they are out there all week, plugging away, not just the weekend. I can not afford to get in trouble a thousand miles from home, we don't trespass and we usually are the ones to haul out the maps and websites on our phone. No kidding, it's the local people that don't seem to know exactly where they are, public or private. That's just my impression as a non resident hunter of many years. I doubt there are a lot of hunters that have been to different countries, as I have; Mexico, Canada and a couple different places in Europe and Africa. If you don't know the laws, the rules and regulations as a foreigner, you are in big trouble. I'm a little bit a "professional" amateur, not like that dink Boddington, who seems to get free guns and gear. Anyway, I think non resident hunters tend to be a bit more knowledgable, and yet, they are disparaged, more often than not.
Anyway, I did get off track but congratulations on a piece of victory, such as it is. It's rare to gain any rights when it's about hunting at night. You may not realize it, but night hunting is a lot more common in some other countries than it is here.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted November 13, 2022 12:00 PM
Like suppressed firearms, huh?
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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