The New Huntmastersbbs!


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» The New Huntmastersbbs!   » Member forum   » How long of a barrel is too long? (Page 1)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!  
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: How long of a barrel is too long?
Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
Member # 506

Icon 1 posted September 14, 2022 04:45 AM      Profile for Aznative           Edit/Delete Post 
An intersting barrel length experiment!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/how-long-is-too-long-for-a-rifle-barrel-mdt-builds-88-inch-long-rifle-to-find-out/ar-AA11N4ZZ?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=1358b4efab7e402ace9c78d42 4861074

--------------------
Never thought the devil would need a teleprompter but I could be wrong.

United State of America: RIP
Born July 4th 1776 died November 6th 2012

Posts: 1800 | From: Phoenix Az | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted September 14, 2022 07:35 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Well, okay. Thanks for that. But, you know, various armies have experimented with barrel length for a couple hundred years, mostly 155mm, but they endlessly determine ideal barrel length, and even the most ideal angle of elevation to get the most distance; which turns out to be very close to 45 degrees, something any ballplayer could have shared. As we know, a 16 inch gun on a Battleship can lob a shell 23 miles but those recent howitzers they have been sending to Ukraine can fire a rocket shell about 40 miles with pinpoint accuracy.

Anyway, cutting off barrel length has also been done. I think P.O Ackley's book described cutting a barrel incrementally, all the way back to 1" in length to determine velocity loss. No, maybe it was Hatcher's Handbook? But, this guy is not the first to play around with it.... and won't be the last.

I think someone would have to get a lot more radical, to answer a few of the questions that were posed. For instance, using a .22 short and a 9 foot or 12 foot barrel might answer one or two posed questions? How useful it would be, who knows? It might possibly answer if friction might stop the bullet before it got to the end of the barrel, at least? Then what?

When I built my suppresser for my AR 30 years ago, I had no idea what those baffles would do? Yeah, somebody had done it, but "I" didn't know, so I rigged up a device with a tire; strapped the rifle down, and a long string on the trigger, just to be safe. It was anti-climatic, but at least the damned thing didn't blow up. The ones you can buy today are so much more sophisticated, it's not funny. But, back then, so far as I am aware, nobody was selling suppressers to the publlic?

On the other hand, in Africa, my PH had one that was at least twice as long as what they are selling these days, and this was 21 years ago. I think it was at least 2 inches in diameter, but so far as I am aware, they weren't restricted, at all, and they sure as hell didn't cost a thousand bucks, and pay the government another $200, which is why I think people are really being ripped off. Anyway, I'm pretty sure that they are very commonly used in Africa for culling work, at night.

Yes, we have gone off on a tangent, sorry about that!

Good hunting. El Bee

--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 30264 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633

Icon 1 posted September 14, 2022 02:13 PM      Profile for Kokopelli   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
But ............... For the data to be relevant, wouldn't the experimenter need to work up the best load for each inch of barrel adjustment ???
Seems like that would add another half gazillion variables into the mix but what the heck if somebody wanted simple they could just buy ammo on sale at Wally World for their 30-30.

Hey Tim ........... We got a project for ya. [Big Grin]

--------------------
And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.

Posts: 6923 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted September 15, 2022 07:46 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
There is such a thing as a slow powder blowing sparks of unburnt powder. The solution is to just use a faster powder and this is a step that is rather automatic because if you look up your cartridge and the selected bullet, they will only show the powders that proved suitable and this is strictly determined by burning rate.

My Model 600 has an 18 inch barrel and I have tried a slow powder a couple times and have seen a bit of the sparks and sometimes there is a flame. The performance is reduced and it's back to the drawing board. Normal people shouldn't have a problem, just use what's recommended. No big deal, you just get subpar performance until you use a more suitable propellant.

However, there is some of this liable to happen because of the number of newer powders that have become available and sometimes they fail to do the scoutwork on more or less obsolete cartridges and the fact that nobody knows shit about anything besides "creedmore". But Try finding published data for your 218Bee using Titegroup! I bet you won't find it, so you must experiment and risk choosing a powder that burns too slow for your barrel length and case volume.

Good hunting. El Bee

--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 30264 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633

Icon 1 posted September 15, 2022 12:42 PM      Profile for Kokopelli   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
Exactly !!!
An eight foot long barrel might require a slower burning powder than a 'short' four foot barrel for the best performance. Or not.

Tim .......... Put down the dog biscuit & find a couple of long barrels to weld together. Y'all got some 'sperimenting to do. [Big Grin]

--------------------
And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.

Posts: 6923 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted September 15, 2022 03:48 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
It certainly can be done. If you look at the various tables by various manufacturers, they mostly keep you from making a serious mistake. Like 4831, or 4350 might be made by a couple different companies and the burn rate is within the ballpark but one might give slightly higher velocity and another might group a little better.

It shouldn't be a problem, but you might want to evaluate both because it's a safe bet that one is a little more accurate than the other.

And, that's another thing. You probably won't find 10 powders the same, one is sure to stand out, either velocity or accuracy. And, this is why the factory cartridges are just plain vanilla. There is bound to be a couple custom loads that will be better, both accuracy and velocity.

I wouldn't really know, because I have a dozen rifles that have never had a factory cartridge fired in it. So, I'm sold on handloading and don't understand why everybody doesn't do it?

But don't be sucked into the "money saving" angle. It's not cheaper when you buy the instruments you need. That stuff adds up!

Good hunting. El Bee

--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 30264 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633

Icon 1 posted September 15, 2022 04:58 PM      Profile for Kokopelli   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
Ok ............ Dumb question of the day;

If two batches of ammo were loaded identically on different days, the only difference being one day being humid and the other dry, would they perform at match levels the same ????

[Razz] Heck, I have a whole wall of bows that have never shot a 'store bought' arrow. [Smile]

--------------------
And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.

Posts: 6923 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
NVWalt
Knows what it's all about
Member # 375

Icon 1 posted September 16, 2022 03:52 AM      Profile for NVWalt           Edit/Delete Post 
Isn't that why bench rest shooters often load for each shot on the spot?
Slow powder Hmmm. I have an old Contender in 7TCU that had the best performance and most important for me the best accuracy with a compressed charge of 748 ball powder. It looked like Fourth of July when it went off but sure was accurate and won me and the wife a few championships in sillywet comp. So explain that one.
Just something special about shooting wildcat cartridges and working up loads for them. But squeezing out the best accuracy in any cartridge is just plain fun even if it is not cheap and seems to take forever.
Always new stuff to try.

--------------------
The goal of the NAZI government, Goebbels said , is that there should be only one opinion, one party and one faith in Germany.... hmmm, sound pretty familiar?

Posts: 515 | From: Tellico Plains, TN | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted September 16, 2022 09:18 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Yes they do that but, they know exactly what they are doing, not changing between shots, it’s the same thrown charge and sometimes they are recycling their 20 best cases, you know based on consistent volume. That’s just a number they might have 10 or 50 that has nearly identical case volume. But you can bet that they are recycling the same 100 cases, many times, I don’t think it’s unusual to get 20 loadings from each case, maybe more? I know that I routinely get well over 10-12 loadings from a case. But I don’t load hot, that’s the answer. Yeah, it’s stout but I watch the primers very closely because I do the same thing, buy 100 cases and then weigh and measure them. Then, I segregate the 10 lightest and ten heaviest and use then for testing but mainly hunt with those 80 in the middle for minute of coyote accuracy.

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: I think, in response to the question, there could be a radical swing in ambient temperature and that might very slightly affect the burning rate, but only between one day from the next, doubtful between shots during a match, and the thing is, if one day was 88* and the next was like 65*, then the performance would be slightly different, but your group would still be consistent, but perhaps slightly lower on the square, indicating IDK? maybe 10fps difference in velocity.

But, the thing to take into consideration is not that ambient temperature, but the wind velocity, and if it's gusty, what they do is wait until almost the end of the time allowed and fire their shots in rapidly, trusting that no matter the variation, if you fire all five shots in less than 10 seconds, chances are the wind, no matter what it is doing; it will be close to the same in that short span. and they would get them off before overheating or warping the barrel becomes a factor. There's so many little nuances that may or may not actually affect your group size, so slow and deliberate is one theory, allowing cooling, and rapid fire is another. But even then, most of these barrels are short and stiff, so the harmonics are muffled and the heating up is minimized.

The math part is trying to get within an accuracy window, which for some people might be about 186,000RPM. These guys have to be pretty anal, ya know? LB

[ September 16, 2022, 10:20 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 30264 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794

Icon 1 posted September 16, 2022 06:32 PM      Profile for TA17Rem   Email TA17Rem         Edit/Delete Post 
Barrel only needs to be long enough to burn the powder before bullet comes out the end. Larger case more powder longer barrel/ burn rate of powder also applies and toss in bullet length/weight as well. I'd say 30"-barrel max length and 24-26 shortest. Also a longer bullet has more drag surface so might benefit from med. length barrel vrs. longer.
Posts: 4498 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633

Icon 1 posted September 16, 2022 08:07 PM      Profile for Kokopelli   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
No .......... No ............ No.......... Tim
You're making it WAY too simple. We don't do simple. We over think everything and make it far more complicated than it needs to be. Then we can argue about it.

[Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

--------------------
And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.

Posts: 6923 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794

Icon 1 posted September 17, 2022 05:51 AM      Profile for TA17Rem   Email TA17Rem         Edit/Delete Post 
I do have a rifle chambered in 17 Loud&boomer with 200 yard long barrel. Not worth a crap on coyotes less than 200 yards I suppose I could start to cut the barrel down in length see what it does. [Eek!]
Posts: 4498 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted September 17, 2022 11:45 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
I don’t know why this reminds me of something. When we went through what they called BERLIN TRANSIT the entry was not far from the “Fulda Gap”.

Once you approached the border, the East Germans had an office you could just drive up to, to submit your passport. They take then from you and put them on a covered tunnel that ran along the Autobahn.

It’s scary to surrender your documents like that but then we were told to proceed to that next kiask, which was at least a quarter of a mile away. Then wait for your documents to be returned once they traveled the compleatly enclosed tunnel. Then you had 400 kilometers with zero off ramps, passing villages but no exits. At the end of a monumental traffic jam where we got out and tossed snow balls, I think it took 8 or nine hours to reach West Berlin way late for our reservations and you wouldn’t believe the dump where we stayed!

Anyhow, never did figure out the purpose of the stupid conveyor tunnel? Why not return it and show it again down yonder? It didn’t look all that reliable, multiple overlapping conveyors and it shook and shivered. They must have had communication? From one yard shack to another? I don’t know 🤷‍♀️ but it was weird!

Good hunting. El Bee 🐝

--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 30264 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted September 18, 2022 09:17 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Ah yes, Memories! The military, Cold War, Europe and just exactly how much America has changed.

In 1989, I guess someone would have heard of the impending ICE AGE that was going to freeze our butts off. Why is it that "greenies" and Environmentalists need to stir up anxieties about the climate and the sea rising and class 4 hurricanes that never seem to materialize? We must be concerned about litter from plastic bags and water bottles.

Just last week, I need a barrel for something else and it had a bunch of aluminum cans in it so I put them in trash bags and went to the recycling business in town. I got $21.12 for them.

I noticed some fringe people with bags of plastic bottles they probably collected from public trash cans, who knows? But, at a nickel per can, plastic or metal, that money goes to the state and it amounts to tens of billions of dollars! This is extra burden on people paying for food to survive. This is money that keeps building up and we never get it back, I don't even know why I had the aluminum cans, it was something I started doing for my grandson, spending money. But it is a pain in the ass to save those containers! I don't. They go in the trash and maybe they recover some when the Refuse trucks take it to a landfill somewhere and possibly somebody picks through it, IDK?

But at least we aren't choking sea turtles with soda straws! And, when was the last time you saw a plastic gadget that held a six-pack of cans together? Me neither. It's a heavy paperboard box, now. Pretty soon they will start up another "SAVE THE TREES" effort. It's always some minor shit we are supposed to be worried about.

This is why I say, and point out, that Liberals are miserable cocksuckers! They worry about stuff and they chastise conservatives because they do not worry about petty bullshit. WE CANNOT SAVE THE EARTH! Sure, we can respect the environment and keep large corporations from dumping pollution into streams and rivers, etc. They cook up some phony statistic about how it may take a thousand years for a plastic bottle to degrade. Yeah, that one kinda does keep me awake at night. <sarcasm>

Something MUST BE DONE! We cannot allow Liberals to indoctrinate the children with their weird bullshit, like preferred pronouns and sex change for 3 year olds! I believe in live and let live, at least to a certain extent. Liberals aren't happy with that, they must convert! Everyone must comply! All new rules and if it's worth codifying, it MUST BE MANDATORY, with severe penalties!

Geezus, it must really suck to be a Liberal!

Good hunting. El Bee

--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 30264 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 13 posted September 18, 2022 10:20 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
and here's why the bastards need to be suppressed!

[URL=https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/09/why-are-schools-asking-children-about-their-sexual-histories/?[/URL]

[ September 18, 2022, 06:18 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 30264 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633

Icon 1 posted September 18, 2022 10:24 AM      Profile for Kokopelli   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
Screen was so full of pop-ups that it was about impossible to read.

--------------------
And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.

Posts: 6923 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted September 18, 2022 06:14 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Okay must be my fault. I’ll try to fix it

--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 30264 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633

Icon 1 posted September 18, 2022 06:49 PM      Profile for Kokopelli   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
Or it could be my Commodore 64 quality computer system. [Eek!]

--------------------
And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.

Posts: 6923 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 6 posted September 19, 2022 11:42 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
I doubt you are exaggerating by much?

I'm almost as bad. This MacBook Pro is 12 years old.

However, more and more people rely on their phones for all communication. Hey, I saw a guy at the reunion with a flip phone!

Good hunting. El Bee

--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 30264 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
NVWalt
Knows what it's all about
Member # 375

Icon 1 posted September 20, 2022 03:45 AM      Profile for NVWalt           Edit/Delete Post 
The wife has an antique HP I use to see what is going on here. It still works but is as slow as me. Can't say much for phones as I personally don't own one. I refuse to have a tracking devise with me. Of course the wife owns one but I got off track.
That 200 yard barrel sounds pretty serious for a 17 Louden-boomer but you could try some cannon powder and maybe squeeze a few more fps out of it.

--------------------
The goal of the NAZI government, Goebbels said , is that there should be only one opinion, one party and one faith in Germany.... hmmm, sound pretty familiar?

Posts: 515 | From: Tellico Plains, TN | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted September 20, 2022 09:10 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
I'm calling bullshit on a 200 yard barrel! Look, even Walt fell for it! How you can avoid carrying even a flip phone is beyond me? It was my wife that insisted that I take a phone with me when I was in those super remote areas, (such as Walt's former state) and I do recall one time that it came in handy to tow us 168 miles for free. I don't think AAA does that any more, not sure?

I understand about the tracking bullshit and it offends me. On the other hand, I'm not in places where I'm ashamed to be, so it's like paying taxes, I do so reluctantly but look at the alternative? If I moved to Belize, or New Jersey(eek!) I'm not even sure if a non citizen can buy property? Even in Mexico, I believe you need some type of partner to actually own a house? There was that famous case in Baja years ago where something like 300 aliens, (mostly Americans) that were booted out of their very nice homes with no compensation and the whole enchilada reverted back to the original land owner thanks to the Mex Supreme Court. The contractor hugely profited and that original land owner was obscenely/hugely compensated while the end buyers escorted from their homes (with no more than a suitcase), by the Federales. I never learned the rationale behind that stunt?

So, that's the sort of stuff you might expect when leaving this country....in spite of it's flaws. That's the only reason why I gave up on tropical Mexico and the Caribbean in favor of Hawaii. Read my lips: Hawaii is in America! Yeah, I know they are stupidly Liberal, in that state, but HELLO! It's still in America!

What the hell were we talking about, anyway?

Good hunting. El Bee

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-sep-03-mn-6343-story.html

[ September 20, 2022, 09:15 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 30264 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633

Icon 1 posted September 20, 2022 10:40 AM      Profile for Kokopelli   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
I was trying to figure out how Tim's Loud Boomer can be loud when the muzzel blast is 200 yards away ???

[Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

--------------------
And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.

Posts: 6923 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted September 20, 2022 07:09 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
This is so easy, you will kick yourself: He was 200 yards away, holding to steady the barrel!

--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 30264 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633

Icon 1 posted September 21, 2022 06:48 AM      Profile for Kokopelli   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
But ....... But ....... But how did he pull the trigger ???? [Confused]

--------------------
And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.

Posts: 6923 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted September 21, 2022 07:40 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Rather common to use the big toe....

--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 30264 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged


All times are Pacific
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | Huntmasters



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.0