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Author
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Topic: Here's what must be a major fuck up?
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Leonard
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posted October 22, 2021 09:28 AM
They talk about "real" guns and prop or fake guns but seems to me it's a procedural problem. The prop people are responsible and more than likely, are people totally ignorant about firearms.
edit: what I meant to say is there must have been procedures or standards that were not followed. Somebody fucked up, big time!
For instance, if I pick up a gun, habitually, I examine it to make sure of it's condition, loaded or unloaded, cocked, safe....all that stuff, even if I'm sure I checked it 3 minutes ago. It's just force of habit. And these are the same people that want to disarm the citizens because they are scared of guns!
They mention that guy in the movie Scarecrow but even before that there was some actor that was goofing off and held a (might have been a 44Mag?) to the side of his head and pulled the trigger on a blank and the blank wad and powder gasses blew a hole in the side of his skull.
Wouldn't it be nice if we had some kind of minimum firearm safety training? Instead, they look at guns as if it's an animate object like a damned snake!
Anyway, enough suspense, read it here:
https://www.aol.com/entertainment/alec-baldwin-visibly-distraught-photos-142757269.html
[ October 22, 2021, 09:30 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted October 22, 2021 11:34 AM
Couple of things come to mind ............
(1) Isn't Baldwin one of those anti gun / pro animal rights Hollywood people ???? I submit that if he knew his way around firearms and firearm safety, this wouldn't have happened.
(2) Was the weapon discharged during a scene or were they just dicking around ??
Bad deal all of the way around.
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Leonard
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posted October 22, 2021 12:45 PM
Yeah, I don't know? Doesn't spell it out so that leads me to speculate that he was fucking off and they don't want to get the poor guy in trouble....which is bullshit!
He's a well known hothead so I can imagine that director telling him to quit fucking off and get the scene started and then he "playfully" aims at her and jerks one off. That is exactly his modus operandi.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
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Leonard
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posted October 22, 2021 01:22 PM
Here's another version, a little more info.
https://conservativebrief.com/alec-baldwin-53130/
edit: but by Baldwin's comments, it appears that he intentionally aimed at and fired at the director and it had nothing to do with the script.
[ October 22, 2021, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
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Leonard
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posted October 22, 2021 01:33 PM
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2021/10/antigun_actor_alec_baldwin_shot _a_woman_to_death.html
Okay, what I wanted to point out is a partial sentence in the above article.
"This probably reminds you of Brandon Lee's death in 1993. Then, a prop gun had been carelessly left with a round in the barrel, so a subsequent blank round with a powder charge created enough energy to propel the bullet with full force into Lee's abdomen, killing him almost instantly."
The first odd thing is "carelessly left with a round in the barrel"
In the case of say, a 45ACP, you could theoretically have a complete cartridge in the chamber of the barrel. But, I can imagine no circumstance where a blank round could lodge against the live round because the action would remain open, hammer back and no way to activate the trigger. This is the kind of ignorant reporting that people do not question, what was explained is impossible!
So, rather than adding to information, that comment just further confuses everything.
Also, in the Baldwin case, the language can be construed as some foreign object might have been inserted in the barrel from the muzzle, something not quite of correct size that could be pushed into the barrel and when the blank is fired, it would act as a percussion cap and project whatever the foreign object that was lodged in the barrel and not the cylinder, if I assume we are talking about a revolver because in a semi auto, we are back talking about the Brandon Lee situation which I cannot think of a possible way for a blank to discharge a separate live cartridge.
Something stinks, in both circumstances, and it does not help that nobody seems to understand a few basic realities concerning firearms. Very unfortunate, and I blame the hysterical anti gun crowd! They don't analyze the facts, don't even care about logic but want to convey their anti gun bias.
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: one more helpful fact that is not bothered to be reported in either event is they never explain the type of prop that was used. Why clutter up a good story with facts like semi auto or revolver. Who cares, nobody know what that means anyway so it's irrelevant; to their thinking, at least.
[ October 22, 2021, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
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posted October 22, 2021 03:26 PM
The understanding that I got from a stunt man about the Brandon Lee incident was that a bogus round, case / bullet, no powder somehow had a live primer. In the course of use, it was fired and the primer was enough to move the bullet into the barrel. This was not noticed and subsequently a blank round, powder / primer, no bullet was loaded. The next time the trigger was pulled ..... perfect storm.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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Leonard
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posted October 22, 2021 06:32 PM
Yeah, I’ve heard of that theoretically happening. It would take a comedy of errors it seems to me? That somebody doesn’t know the difference between a full power load discharging and the feeble pop of the Primer going off, followed by the noticeable lack
Of recoil. Then, to compound the clusterfuck, the operator just shrugs and pulls the trigger again while the cylinder rotates. Again, it would take an idiot that shouldn’t be allowed to handle be enough prop guns. But, bullshit! Why is all that non conventional ammo allowed on a movie set? It’s much too theoretical to suit me.
And, chances that just the force of the primer being enough to propel the bullet out of the case and into the barrel; what would most likely happen is the bullet would jamb halfway between the cylinder and the barrel, preventing the cylinder from rotation and then it would be impossible for the gun to discharge. I'm still assuming, of lack of any authoritative information, that we are talking about a modern double action revolver. If, on the other hand, he had to pull back the hammer on a western style Colt 45, that's even more deliberate and questionable!
Good hunting. El Bee 🐝
[ October 25, 2021, 07:10 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
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Leonard
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posted October 22, 2021 06:32 PM
Yeah, I’ve heard of that theoretically happening. It my would take a comedy of errors it seems to me? That somebody doesn’t know the difference between A full power load discharging and the feeble sound of the Primer going off and lack
Of recoil. Then, to compound the clusterfuck, the operator just shrugs and pulls the trigger again while the cylinder rotates. Again, it would take an idiot that shouldn’t be allowed to handle be enough prop guns. But, bullshit! Why is all that non conventional ammo allowed on a movie set? It’s much too theoretical to suit me.
Good hunting. El Bee 🐝
[ October 22, 2021, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
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Leonard
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posted October 23, 2021 07:44 AM
Here's a followup article:
https://www.slashfilm.com/641132/official-warrant-reveals-alec-baldwin-was-unknowingly-handed-a-weapon-with-live-rounds-on-the-set-of-rust/?utm_source=zergnet.com&utm_medium=referr al&utm_campaign=zergnet_6857947
In it they talk about having some kind of expert that is in charge of the prop gun to ensure all safety is followed.
First of all; whoever this guy is, he apparently did not open the cylinder and check the contents, which is what everybody else does, that is not being paid to ensure safety.
Second, you have Alex Baldwin who also did not check the weapon, (used as a prop) to make sure it was safe. There must be a protocol where he ensures that he has not been handed a "hot" gun?
And thirdly, it has not been explained in any detail how this asshole decided to point the supposedly harmless weapon at the director and pull the trigger? Why is this basic question bypassed and instead he starts asking why he was handed a hot gun, but not addressing exactly why he did what he did with that gun?
That's it, so many questions and no fucking answers?
Why is he getting away with this being classified as just a tragic accident? He should be forced to explain what he did and why he did it!
Then, get that property master by the balls and find out why he did what he did.
Something stinks!
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
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Kokopelli
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posted October 24, 2021 06:57 AM
Here's a thought;
Require actors, anti-gun or not to take basic firearm training and pass a proficiency test for movies where firearms are used.
It might prevent 'accidents' and some Hollywood types might realize that guns aren't the evil they think they are.
Just sayn'
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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Leonard
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posted October 24, 2021 11:07 AM
They think they are too advance to learn anything from instructions, that's for chumps.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
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Kokopelli
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posted October 24, 2021 11:35 AM
............ and another thing; What the FUK were live rounds doing anywhere on set ????? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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Leonard
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posted October 24, 2021 04:15 PM
Instead of feeling sorry for the asshole, how about a couple pointed questions, like why aim the unchecked piece at the director, and why did he feel compelled to pull the trigger? He’s had time to organize his thoughts by now. WTF was his motives? It seems like a very deliberate act. Easily, manslaughter!
Good hunting. El Bee 🐝
Edit: he’s made a living the past 4 years just pursing his lips and ridiculing Donald Trump! Sweat him out!
[ October 24, 2021, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
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Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
Member # 506
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posted October 25, 2021 07:11 AM
Here are some more insights into this preventable shooting. The firearms safety person gives the four requirements for gun safety to the staff before filming starts. My question is what type of power does the safety officer have to enforce these rules? Apparently not enough!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sjj7yZFs_h8
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Kokopelli
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posted October 25, 2021 09:22 AM
The only people who are gonna win in this mess are the lawyers.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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Leonard
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posted October 25, 2021 06:21 PM
I can only hope Baldwin suffers financially and personally. If he has a plan, he better start rolling it out. Of course, he doesn’t have a leg to stand on. He should start his explanation with his reasons for deliberately cocking and aiming and then pulling the trigger.
Somebody else needs to explain why they were using that “prop” at a range just prior, for recreational target shooting!
Good hunting. El Bee 🐝
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
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posted October 26, 2021 09:45 AM
So .............. How long will it be before the Alec Baldwin Gun Safety Tip memes start showing up ???
People can be so cruel.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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Leonard
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posted October 26, 2021 10:40 AM
You mean the ones where they suggest pointing the gun in a safe direction, like in one's mouth or held to the side of the head when they pull the trigger? Yes, that should be mandatory for Hollywood Liberals! There is certainly no profit in teaching them normal gun safety, they would have such an attitude that it would be a waste of time for everybody.
Question: why has he not been taken into custody? About 25 SWAT team people is the Republican average, I see no reason to change that practice, same with 3 A.M. breaching the front door. Fair is fair!
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Leonard
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posted October 27, 2021 09:12 AM
I'm kinda nauseated when reading all the completely ignorant people, people that do not know anything about firearms, but they suddenly think they have a valuable and insightful opinion about guns and props and safety issues. They seem to focus on one fact to the exclusion of other, more pertinent facts. Such as, well, Baldwin wasn't to blame because the armorer who handed the gun to him said: "cold gun" and then they disregard every subsequent, dangerous act by Baldwin.
You give a chick the title of "armorer" and this conveys expertise when she had admitted nervousness just by loading a gun with blanks or cartridges, not even specified?
All the boring details about safety procedures that weren't valid and obviously unsafe to begin with. First of all, the whole production company seemed ignorant about proper handling of real or so called "prop" guns. every account I have read involved simply handing a gun, transferring custody from one "authority" to the next and then to the actor and it seems clear that nobody took the basic step of actually inspecting the piece which is what should be done, and what every person with any familiarity at all with firearms does automatically; which is, check to make sure the weapon is unloaded, OR loaded with proper blanks, just taking another's word or just not even taking the status into consideration! All too casual, especially when that asshole Baldwin, accepts the weapon apparently without checking it, just like everybody else in the chain of events. Then, for some unfathomable reason, he then cocks the piece, aims it in the direction of people on the set and pulls the damned trigger!
This is all criminally stupid actions by everyone involved, including the victims! I've already labeled the entire situation as a CLUSTERFUCK and it's accurate beyond contradiction. It just annoys me no end, especially when these people are anti-gun in the first place, at least Baldwin is known to be especially opposed to firearms in general and the NRA in particular.
The whole bunch should be forced to attend 50 hours of compulsory gun safety education and then pass a written test. It's all way too smug to suit me! These things shouldn't happen and I take this stuff personally because it ultimately affects my rights which are being casually abused by people that are strongly anti gun. It's totally unfair.
end of rant!
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: I should mention that I am particularly disturbed and upset whenever anybody misuses a firearm. I believe it directly impacts my rights and freedoms. There are many control freaks, (Liberals) that can't wait to use any misdeed committed with a firearm as an excuse to limit freedom and control my freedom and access to firearms in general. And, I highly resent attempts by control freaks to restrict my freedom by using misdeeds by others as a device to create more and more rules and regulations and infringe on the Second Amendment. Eternal vigilance is needed!
[ October 27, 2021, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
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Kokopelli
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posted October 31, 2021 04:39 AM
I see on the news that Baldwin held an impromptu news conference and the spin began Very touching. He's a fine actor, no doubt about that.
Here's the thing, though;
If you run a stop sign, it doesn't make you a bad person. It just means that you screwed up. Hopefully nothing bad resulted from your mistake.
If a cop sees you run the stop sign you're gonna get a ticket. A responsible adult doesn't blame the cop for doing his job or the city for putting up the stop sign. You take the ticket and pay it.
If you run the stop sign, t-bone a station wagon and take out a family of six, it still doesn't mean that you're an evil person. It just means that you screwed up big-time and will be held responsible for your actions to the fullest extent of criminal and civil law.
Baldwin took a weapon, ignored several Firearm Safety 101 rules and killed someone. He has stated that 'He's no expert' with firearms. That's like taking out that family of six and excusing it by saying 'I don't know how to drive'.
Baldwin fuked up. Now it's time for him to man up and take responsibility for what he did. But it probably ain't gonna happen.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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Leonard
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posted October 31, 2021 09:38 AM
He's already being nurtured and protected. Have you noted any prominent celebrity weighing in and being critical? Has anybody been quoted as saying;
"Damn! Alex, why would you bypass safety procedures and point and fire that gun without making sure it was safe, as any responsible and knowledgable person would do!"
Nope, nope! I haven't heard a word criticizing this dickhead for ignoring all safety procedures! Yeah, and why? Because he's a friggin' Hollywood Liberal!
As we used to say, in the Brown Boot Army: You don't shit in your own mess kit! Liberals are forbidden criticism of another Liberal. Double standard. You speak up and criticize Candice Owens, or a right wing nut, not a Left Winger!
Baldwin, if he has been interviewed by police, I haven't heard a word about it?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Leonard
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posted November 03, 2021 08:09 AM
I give you a theory, advanced (I guess) yesterday.
Somebody sabotaged that gun that the armorer handed to Alex Baldwin.
This is a theory that only a Liberal would think of, a Liberal without any basic knowledge of firearms and how you treat them. Everybody in the chain of custody SHOULD HAVE EXAMINED AND VERIFIED THAT THE "PROP" WAS UNLOADED!
If any of them did what a responsible and knowledgable and intelligent person would do, this "accident" would never have happened!
https://www.tmz.com/2021/11/03/armorer-hannah-gutierrez-reed-new-statement-rust-halyna-hutchins/
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
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posted November 03, 2021 12:18 PM
Can it be long before Michael Moore investigates and does a documentary ????? I smell a conspiracy & cover-up.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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Leonard
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posted November 03, 2021 03:44 PM
I SEE CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE!
"splain me where I'm wrong?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
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posted October 23, 2021 08:12 AM
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