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Author
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Topic: Meanwhile in Nevada...
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted April 14, 2014 05:34 PM
I haven't had the chance to review the entire interview because I was in court suing a guy this morning g when it first aired, but he was on Beck today and the feds say he didn't pay them. he says that the feds stopped maintaining the land long ago leaving him to repair and rebuild fences, maintain water sources, ad nauseum, so he decided if he had to do it, then he'd use that money for that.
At the same time, he claims, and rightfully so IMO, that the BLM thugs had no rights whatsoever to be there armed as they were. I agree in that it seems like every federal agency out there has now created their own army to go after seditionists, as defined by them. Since when does the BLM have legitimate arrest powers? This is a huge question to be answered because if the president or his cronies can just give every Tom, Dick and Harry the "right" to carry a gun and use it and other forms of force to strip you of every one of your civil rights under the Constitution, we is seriously fucked.
There are some very interesting discussion topics arising from these events and I foresee a lot of people becoming much more educated over what the Constitution says to protect us from tyranny.
Fact is, you call him a dead beat. I'm still studying all the particulars, but he may well have a stronger argument that those acres are sovereign state acres upon which the federal government has no authority to interceded in a matter such as this.
For a lot of people, much of this simply does not make sense. It has been my experience that when something is confusing or doesn't seem to be as it appears, it's generally because there are critical facts we don't yet know.
[ April 14, 2014, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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CrossJ
SECOND PLACE: PAUL RYAN Look-a-like contest
Member # 884
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posted April 14, 2014 06:03 PM
Like I said, Bundy doesn't make for a good poster boy for the anti big gov movement. That said, most everyone who has pursued activities to draw attention to/change policy is often viewed as a proverbial nut job. The whole solar/turtle deal was basically an accidental uncovering of another corpse while digging in a cemetery. Concessions were made for solar energy plants in regards to turtles yet, there mere existence has been used in other cases as a club to beat people out of their land use contracts. The people implementing these policies are influenced by outside money(Reids lobbiest son). To me, having a father as a sitting senator while lobbying for big corporations in the state he represents is a huge conflict of interest. Also, take into consideration that agencies like the BLM,OSHA,EPA and a plethora of other alphabet agencies are run by appointed individuals who write their own policy.....not written by an elected group. Now, arm those groups in full tactical gear, and the whole prospect gets really scary. I know that my opinion of whether LE will raise arms against the citizenry has swayed strongly. What happened to the good ol' days when the .gov would just seize all your assets in order to fuck up your life....maybe it just doesn't send the message they want?
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A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body.
Posts: 1025 | From: on a water tower | Registered: Jul 2006
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CrossJ
SECOND PLACE: PAUL RYAN Look-a-like contest
Member # 884
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posted April 14, 2014 06:08 PM
quote:
There are some very interesting discussion topics arising from these events
Missed your post Lance, but completely agree with this statement.
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A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body.
Posts: 1025 | From: on a water tower | Registered: Jul 2006
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DiYi
Wears wife's pink panties under his camo for good luck. (yeah, right!)
Member # 3785
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posted April 14, 2014 06:17 PM
Lance there is only 'argument' not facts on the issue of whether the State or Federal Gov owns the land in question.Bundy litigated that in his case and lost.
No surprise,Mexico ceded that land to the United States in 1848,well before Nevada became a state in 1864.
See:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Cession
Posts: 623 | From: SoDak | Registered: Feb 2011
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted April 14, 2014 06:49 PM
I am aware of that, DiYi, and don't argue that point. But, Bundy had an agreement with the BLM and their end of the agreement involved the maintenance of the land, i.e., fences and water sources, so that these features were not destroyed. They reneged on their responsibilities and abandoned those tasks, Bundy was left to do them himself at his own expense and he decided that he could do more with those dollars than they were willing to do, so he opted to quit just throwing money at them for nothing in exchange. That's how I understand things. Within the law? No, but does that give them then authority to handle the matter as they did the past three weeks?
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted April 14, 2014 06:54 PM
To Geordie's comments about all the federal alphabet agencies that pass rules that are not debated by elected officials, here is a list I recently came across of those agencies, commission, councils, and committees, each of which passes regulations and orders that you and I have to abide by, but which are not debated or scrutinized by our elected officials. In an alrmingly increasing way, our federal government is bypassing the legislative process as outlined in our Constitution and handing off the drafting and implementation of these rules to these lesser agencies so that they do not get hung up in committees or debates,and IMO, this is WRONG.
Administration on Aging
Admin for Children and Families
Administrative Committee of the Federal Register
Advisory Council on Historical Preservation
African Development Foundation
Agency for Advancement for Affirmative Action
Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality
Agency for International Development
Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry
Agricultural Marketing Service
Agricultural Research Service
Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Bureau
American Battle Monuments Commission
American Samoa
AMTRAK
Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service
Appalachian Regional Commission
Architect of the Capitol
Architectural and Transportation Barriers Compliance Board
Arctic Research Commission
Armed Forces Retirement Home
Arms Control and International Security
Arthritis and Musculoskeletal Interagency Coordinating Committee
Barry M. Goldwater Scholarship and Excellence in Education Foundation
Bilingual Education and Minority Language Affairs Office
Botanic Garden
Broadcasting Board of Governors
Bureau of the Census
Bureau of Economic Analysis
Bureau of Engraving and Printing
Bureau of Indian Affairs
Bureau of Industry and Security
Bureau of International Labor Affairs
Bureau of Justice Statistics
Bureau of Labor Statistics
Bureau of Land Management
Bureau of Prisons
Bureau of Public Debt
Bureau of Reclamation
Bureau of Transportation Statistics
Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services
Central Intelligence Agency
Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigations Board
Chief Financial Officers Council
Chief Information Officers Council
Citizens Stamp Advisory Committee
Citizenship and Immigration Services Bureau
Civilian Radioactive Waste Management
Coalition Provisional Authority (Iraq)
Coalition Provisional Authority Inspector General
Commerce Department
Commission of Fine Arts
Commission on Civil Rights
Commission on the Intelligence Capabilities of the United States regarding Weapons of Mass Destruction
Commission on International Religious Freedom
Committee for the Implementation of Textile Agreements
Committee for Purchase from People Who Are Blind or Severely Disabled
Commodities Future Trading Commission
Community Development Office
Cooperative State Research, Education and Extension Service
Coordinating Council on Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention
Corporation for National and Community Service
Council for Economic Advisers
Council on Environmental Quality
Court of International Trade
Customs and Border Protection
Defense advanced Research Projects Agency
Defense Commissary Agency
Defense Contract Audit Agency
Defense Contract Management Agency
Defense Field Activities
Defense Financing Accounting Service
Defense Agencies Systems Agency
Defense Intelligence Agency
Defense Legal Services Agency
Defense Logistics Agency
Defense Nuclear Facilities Safety Board
Defense Security Cooperation Agency
Defense Security Service
Defense Threat Reduction Agency
Delaware River Basin Commission
Denali Commission
Department of Agriculture
Department of Commerce
Department of Defense
Department of Defense Cyber Crime Center
Department of Defense Inspector General
Department of Education
Department of Energy
Department of Health and Human Services
Department of Homeland Security
Department of Housing and Urban Development
Department of the Interior
Department of Justice
Department of Labor
Department of State
Department of Transportation
Department of the Treasury
Department of Veterans Affairs
Disability Employment Policy Office
Domestic Policy Council
Drug Enforcement Administration
Economic, Business and Agricultural Affairs
Economic and Statistics Administration
Economic Development Administration
Economic Research Service
Election Assistance Commission
Elementary and Secondary Education
Employee Benefits Security Administration
Employment and Training Administration
Employment Standards Administration
Endangered Species Administration
Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy
Energy Information Administration
Enforcement
Environment, Safety and Health
Environmental Management
Environmental Protection Agency
Equal Employment Opportunity Commission
Executive Office for Immigration Review
Export Administration
Export-Import Bank of the United States
Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity
Faith-Based and Community Initiatives Office
Farm Credit Administration
Farm Service Agency
Federal Accounting Standards Advisory Board
Federal Aviation Administration
Federal Bureau of Investigations
Federal Communications Commission
Federal Citizens Information Group
Federal Consulting group
Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation
Federal Election Commission
Federal Emergency Management Agency
Federal Energy Regulatory Commission
Federal Executive Boards
Federal Financial Institutions Examination Council
Federal Financing Bank
Federal Highway Administration
Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight
Federal Housing Finance Board
Federal Interagency Committee for the Management of Noxious and Exotic Weeds
Federal Interagency Council on Statistical Policy
Federal Judicial Center
Federal Labor Relations Authority
Federal Labor Consortium for Technology Transfer
Federal Law Enforcement Training Center
Federal Library and Information Center Committee
Federal Maritime Commission
Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service
Federal Mine Safety and Health Review Commission
Federal Motor Carriers Safety Administration
Federal Railroad Administration
Federal Reserve System
Federal Retirement Thrift Investment Board
Federal Trade Commission
Federal Transit Administration
Federated States of Micronesia
Financial Management Services
Fish and Wildlife Services
Food and Drug Administration
Food and Nutrition Services
Food, Consumer and Nutrition Services
Food Safety and Inspection Services
Foreign Agricultural Service
Foreign Claims Settlement Commission
Forest Service
Fossil Energy
Fullbright Foreign Scholarship Board
General Accounting Office
General Services Administration
Geological Survey
Global Affairs
Global Communications Office
Government Printing Office
Government National Mortgage Association
Grain Inspection, Packers, and Stockyards Administration
Harry S. Truman Scholarship Foundation
Health Resources and Services Administration
Holocaust Memorial Museum
House Office of the Inspector General
House Office of the Clerk
House of Representatives Committees (multiple)
House Organizations, Commissions, and Task Forces (multiple)
Illinois and Michigan Canal National Heritage Corridor Commission
Immigration and Customs Enforcement
Immigration and Naturalization Services
Indian Arts and Crafts Board
Indian Health Service
Industrial College of the Armed Forces
Industry and Security Bureau
Information Resource Management College
Institute of Education Sciences
Institute of Museum and Library Services
Institute of Peace
Interagency Alternative Dispute Resolution Working Group
Interagency Council on Homelessness
Interagency Electronic Grants Committee
Inter-American Foundation
Internal Revenue Service
International Broadcasting Bureau
International Trade Administration
James Madison Memorial Fellowship Foundation
Japan- United States Friendship Commission
John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts
Joint Board for the Enrollment of Actuaries
Joint Forces Staff College
Judicial Circuit Courts of Appeal
Judicial Panel on Multidistrict Litigation
Justice Department
Justice Programs Office
Lead Hazard Control
Legal Services Corporation
Library of Congress
Marine Mammal Commission
Marketing and Regulatory Programs (USDA)
Marshall Islands
Marshals Service
Medicare Payments Advisory Commission
Merit Systems Protection Board
Migratory Birds Conservation commission
Mineral Management Service
Minority Business Development Agency
Mint
Missile Defense Agency
Mississippi River Commission
Morris K. Udall Foundation Scholarship and Excellence in National Environmental Policy
Multifamily Housing Office
NASA
National Agriculture Statistics Service
National AIDS Policy Office
National Archives and Records Administration
National Bipartisan Commission on the Future of Medicare
National Capital Planning Commission
National cemetery Administration
National Commission on Libraries and Information Systems
National Communications System
National Constitution Center
National Council on Disability
National Credit Union Administration
National Defense University
National Drug Intelligence Center
National Economic Council
National Endowment for the Arts
National Endowment for the Humanities
National Gallery of Art
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
national Imagery and Mapping Agency
National Indian Gaming Commission
National Institute of Justice
National Institute of Standards and Technology
National Institute of Health
National Interagency Fire Center
National Labor Relations Board
National Laboratories (DoE)
National Marine Fisheries
National Medication Board
National Nuclear Security Administration
National Ocean Service
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
National Park Administration
National Park Service
National Reconnaissance Organization
National Science Foundation
National Security Agency
National Security Council
National Technical Information Service
National Telecommunications and Information Administration
National Transportation Safety Board
National Weather Service
Natural Resources Conservation Service
Navajo and Hopi Relocation Commission
Northern Mariana Islands
Northwest Power Planning Council
Nuclear Energy, Science and Technology
Nuclear Regulatory Commission
Nuclear Waste Technical Review Board
Occupational Safety and Health Administration
Occupational Safety and Health Review Commission
Office of Compliance
Office of federal Housing Enterprise Oversight
Office of Gas Compliance
Office of Government Ethics
Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs
Office of management and Budget
Office of National Drug Control Policy
Office of Personnel Management
Office of Science and Technology Policy
Office of Science and Technology Information
Office of Special Counsel
Overseas Private Investment Corporation
Pardon Attorney Office
Parole Commission
Patent and Trademark Office
Peace Corps
Pension and Welfare Benefits Administration
Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation
Policy Development and Research
Postal Rate Commission
Postal Service
Postsecondary Education
Power Administration
President’s Commission on Moon, Mars and Beyond
President’s Commission on the US Postal Service
President’s Council on Integrity and Efficiency
President’s Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board
Presidio Trust
Public Diplomacy and Public Affairs
Public Health Preparedness Office
Public and Indian Housing
Radio and TV Marti
Radio Free Asia
Radio Free Europe/ Radio Liberty
Railroad Retirement Board
Regulatory Information Service Center
Rehabilitation Services Administration
Research, Education and Economics, USDA
Research and Special Programs Administration
Risk Management Agency
Rural Business-Cooperative Service
Rural Development
Rural Housing Service
Rural Utilities Service
Saint Lawrence Seaway Development Corporation
Science Office (DoE)
Secret Service
Securities and Exchange Commission
Selective Service System
Small Business Administration
Smithsonian Institute
Social Security Administration
Social Security Advisory Board
Special Education and Rehabilitation Services
State Department
State Justice Institute
Stennis Center for Public Service
Student Financial Assistance Programs
Superfund Basic Research Program
Surface Mining, Reclamation and Enforcement
Susquehanna River Basin Commission
Taxpayer Advocacy Panel
Technology Administration
Tennessee Valley Authority
Trade and Development Agency
Trade Policy Staff Committee (House)
Transportation Security Administration
Treasury Department
Trustee Program (DoJ)
U.S. Centennial of Flight Commission
U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement
U.S. International Trade Commission
U.S. Mission to the United Nations
U.S. National Central Bureau (Interpol)
U.S. Sentencing Commission
Veterans Administration
Veterans Benefits Administration
Veterans Day National Committee
veterans Employment and Training Service
Veterans Health Administration
Veterans Educational Foundation
Vocational and Adult Education
Voice of America
White House Commission on Presidential Scholars
White House Commission on the National Moment of Remembrance
White House Office of Administration
Women’s Bureau (DoL)
Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars
This list was compiled in 2012. There have been others chartered and created since then, and this is only federal agencies, not state or local.
[ April 14, 2014, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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DiYi
Wears wife's pink panties under his camo for good luck. (yeah, right!)
Member # 3785
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posted April 14, 2014 07:04 PM
Lance, I don't like the approach used either but they were ordered to enforce Court orders, orders generated after years of litigation. Frankly these guys have a job to do on those facts and I've asked myself many times what do I expect them to do?
No fucking way I'd let Bundy continue on as he is so not sure how to answer this.
I am glad they pulled back but that just delays the problem and the orders,IMO,have to be enforced. To me this is a deadbeat issue, not a contrived constitutional one. One that the 'free press' will work the 'right' with as long as they can.
I'll bow out with that.
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted April 14, 2014 07:11 PM
I appreciate your points there, DiYi. Actually agree. I guess the thing that concerns me the most is the magnitude of the armed response by the BLM, of all people. Where the hell did BLM get that kind of firepower and who gave it to them? Look through that list up there^^^ and mark off the ones that should have the authority to just take away your right to freedom, aka, arrest powers. In "the day", that was pretty much the FBI, the US Marshal's Service, and the US Postal Inspection Service, who carries the same law enforcement authority as the FBI. If any of the other alphabets needed to enforce the law to the extent of making arrests and prosecuting, the matter was referred to the FBI or the US Marshals. Nowadays, there's information that even the USDA and the USDE have armed divisions acting as quick reaction forces. WTF?
Like Geordie said so eloquently about digging up a lot of unexpected bodies, this incident really reveals to the American people how thuggish our federal government has become in the past six years, if not longer. Is this really for the public good? And if so, what good can come of it? Do they really work for us anymore, or do we just do what they say out of fear of what will happen to us if we don't.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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DiYi
Wears wife's pink panties under his camo for good luck. (yeah, right!)
Member # 3785
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posted April 15, 2014 04:56 AM
Lance I should know better than say I'll bow out cause these issues fascinate me.I'm sure I'll be alone on this but so be it.I think the exact opposite of what you say is the truth.'Thuggishness'is decreasing in the US,not increasing.With video,phone cameras etc it's actually rarer now than historically.
Think back about the clubs and dogs during race demonstrations,war protests(Kent State for instance-army not only called out but shooting kids),the Dem convention in Chicago,etc.In fact,the farther back in our history you go,the more violent and requent 'thuggishness' becomes.
Often it was against unions and the unemployed such as the Tompkins square NY fiasco and the violence against coal miners in Virginia(Blair Mountain).In some instances the Gov declared martial law and called out the Army to enforce it.
Nope todays police may be overarmed and equipped but they are much better trained and use much more restraint than in our past IMO.
Looking back is often painful but it is enlightening.Some say Obamma and the chinese and/or Harry Reid are behind this.BS.This deadbeat collection thing started back many Administrations(90s),was continued under Dems and Republicans and came to a head cause Bundy lost his cases(after wasting more of our taxpayer $$ with his lawsuits)and the Gov was threatened with lawsuits by Environmental groups and others to enforce the COURT ORDERS against Bundy.
There simply isn't a conspiracy under every rock-only in some minds.
Posts: 623 | From: SoDak | Registered: Feb 2011
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DiYi
Wears wife's pink panties under his camo for good luck. (yeah, right!)
Member # 3785
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posted April 15, 2014 05:11 AM
RShaw,
Didn't see this before I posted but just more of the same.Bundy was and is a deadbeat and is using OUR land.He lost 2 federal cases that started many years ago.
Reid may be a crook but so is Bundy.
Edit to add a bit about the latest ruling and the judge involved-a Reagan judge by the way:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/13/1291701/-About-the-Judge-who-issued-latest-Cliven-Bundy-Order#
[ April 15, 2014, 05:42 AM: Message edited by: DiYi ]
Posts: 623 | From: SoDak | Registered: Feb 2011
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booger
TOO BIG TO FAIL
Member # 3602
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posted April 15, 2014 07:39 AM
I wasn’t as quick to jump on the Cliven Bundy bandwagon without getting the other side of the story—something just smells to me—I am still not sold on that guy. I do know around here, if you don’t pay your pasture rent, the landowner can lock the gate and sell enough critters to settle that debt if need be. This ‘agisters lien’ even supercedes my lien as a banker on the same collateral.
I was starting my lending career in the early 1980’s when the Posse Comitatus was running around here in Central Kansas. Some of the guys in the Ag Movement I dealt with refused to pay their loans back as somehow I was part of the ‘Trilateral Commission that was controlled by Jew Bankers and the corrupt Federal Reserve System’. The money was sure as hell good when they were pleading with me to help them out, just not when the payments came due. Many of these guys also quit filing federal income taxes about this time as well.
I even had a guy threaten to shoot himself in front of me so the bank could collect on his life insurance policy to pay his loan. As a new 22 year old, wet behind the ears loan officer, I told my boss I didn’t get paid enough for that shit, and if I saw the SOB coming in the front with a gun, I was heading out the back door and he was on his own. That was back when I was 50 pounds lighter and could run a bit faster…
Fighting against government norms such as paying taxes, or in this case land rent is nothing new to me. What I can say is that it pisses me off to no end when I have to pay income taxes and saw virtually nothing happen to the frickin deadbeats that quit paying for 15 years or more. I guess I was raised differently in that I feel an obligation to settle what I owe, rather than argue about whether or not I disagree with who I am actually paying the money to.
With that said, I think the BLM response was a bit over the top. We live in a nation that tells the Border Patrol not to fire on illlegals with rocks in their hands, but is the same government that has snipers pointing firearms at our own citizens. The one BLM guy even said, “What are we supposed to do when the folks on the other side have rocks in their hands?”
Pretty damn scary.
[ April 15, 2014, 08:11 AM: Message edited by: booger ]
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If we ever forget we are one Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under--Ronald Reagan
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CrossJ
SECOND PLACE: PAUL RYAN Look-a-like contest
Member # 884
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posted April 15, 2014 08:09 AM
quote:
Reid may be a crook but so is Bundy.
I think this point can be agreed upon by most who have looked at the facts honestly. To me this incident has little to do with ol' Clive. Rather, it sheds light on a bigger yet more subtle issue, and that is the growth in size and power of fed gov't. Several of the issues you mentioned DiYi bucked laws at the current time.....maybe unjust laws, but laws still the same. Also, during those time frames the breadth and scope of the fed gov't was no where near what it is today. The rules these agencies(refer to Lances list) enforce were, for the most part, written by the people enforcing them. There is my rub. I have been close to or involved in three separate issues with DEQ,USDA/EPA and the USDA P&S. Everyone of them involved an issue of moving goal posts and thus levying fines. These goal posts(rules) were not open for debate when they were written or imposed. These fines can, and have been used to destroy businesses, families and lives. But here is the crux, in Bundy's case, they didn't confiscate assets.....they loosed their personal 'Nat'l guard'.
In my opinion, this whole deal was one fire cracker pop away from a bloody mess, and the cell phone footage and youtube clips did more to turn the BLM than did the armed opposition. I am by far not a conspiracy theorist, but I do think a fairly large portion of our populace is fed up and pissed off.
Maintain
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A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body.
Posts: 1025 | From: on a water tower | Registered: Jul 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 15, 2014 09:49 AM
quote:
I do think a fairly large portion of our populace is fed up and pissed off.
That's kinda where I'm at. I have no interest in re litigating the question. I object to the authority imposed on a peaceful rancher. He might be a deadbeat, he might beat his wife? But the strong arm hiring of wranglers backed up by snipers rubs me wrong.
With the weasel Harry Reid being involved, this moves the needle in a negative direction.
I am very familiar with the area. It's not northeast Nevada, it's extreme southeastern Nevada, Clark County. Not particularly good coyote country, never has been.
Something not mentioned, what with tortoises and solar farms and oil and gas fracking. Water. A very big deal, what with the level of Lake mead going down and Las Vegas not being entitled to any more allotments. They are drilling wells further north like a house afire. And, of course, they need golf courses closer to Las Vegas, and golf courses near Las vegas need grass and grass needs water and that's prime golf course property over in Bunkerville.
We never get the truth. But, the Commando shit is offensive to me.
Not so much on the Bundy ranch as further west around Death Valley. Same agency, BLM Rangers. And, they are very aggressive, there and in the East Mojave. That part I know about, so it's no stretch to conclude they are being obnoxious in the current situation.
Good hunting. El Bee
[ April 15, 2014, 09:50 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31474 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DiYi
Wears wife's pink panties under his camo for good luck. (yeah, right!)
Member # 3785
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posted April 15, 2014 09:50 AM
CrossJ,
I agree with everything you just said.Particularly the growth of the Government(State and Federal)and the add on bureaucracy that promulgates rules via fiat and political inclination vs democratic means.Sad and damn scary.
My point is that none of that has a anything to do with the far rights new Trayvon that wears a cowboy hat instead of dreadlocks.He's not a hero,he's a deadbeat using our land illegally.There is NO 'States Rights' issue here.It's federal land,federal contracts,federal court decisions period.
Nor is there a single constitutional issue involved except the 1st amendment 'protest area' thing which is just that,a result of the protest,not the underlying case against this cowboy.
Yet we have wackos waving the flag for him.Go figure.I figure in large part this,like 'Trayvon' is media(ratings)driven and amped up by one side or another for it's particular view or political goals.Again,there are no States Rights or Const issues here but if anyone disagrees,please name them.
So now what?Should Bundy win?Hell no IMO,throw his sorry ass off.
A mess and hopefully it doesn't get worse.
As to the Federal 'thugs',again I'm sure I'm alone,but I actually feel sorry for the agents,officers,whatever they are cause they are really no different than us for the most part.They have jobs and bosses,families and bills to pay,many likely served with honor,many likely hunt,and I'd bet I'd enjoy having a coffee or a beer with the vast majority of them.So what does America want from them?They,if they enforce Federal Court decisions as they will be ordered to do,aren't taking a position against us,or guns,or ANY OTHER noble cause or constitutional issue but merely moving a deadbeat off OUR land.
Damn tough deal and they don't deserve abuse for upholding our laws.
Edit:Forgot to state a few certainties. Certainly this will be justification for both 'sides'
to buy more arms and ammo,certainly shortages of components and ammo for other legitimate uses will go on and almost certainly this all will lead to bloodshed.Hopefully only wackos on both sides die.
[ April 15, 2014, 10:00 AM: Message edited by: DiYi ]
Posts: 623 | From: SoDak | Registered: Feb 2011
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 15, 2014 10:57 AM
I'm disagreeing with you, DiYi. The part about the federal Thugs are just like us. The hell they are!
These guys are cops, and cops are enthusiastic enforcers, not reluctant. As someone said, they are one firecracker away from machine-gunning the whole crowd of protesting citizens.
I don't like AUTHORITY. Particularly armed authority. Especially combat clad, bulletproof vest, taser waving jack booted thugs.
I think the proper thing is to send the sheriff or U.S. Marshalls who are normally called to evict tenants for non payment of rent.
The fact that this has dragged on for 20 years tells me the Feds have a weak case. They never should have let it go for this long, then bring in the snipers.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31474 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 15, 2014 11:34 AM
GOOD QUESTION
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31474 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DiYi
Wears wife's pink panties under his camo for good luck. (yeah, right!)
Member # 3785
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posted April 15, 2014 11:48 AM
Wasn't planning on you agreeing with me LB and it doesn't matter.Still a free country and we are all entitled to our opinions and to express them.
You can bad mouth the thugs and I'll have a beer with them,all good.IMO opinion they have and will continue to protect your rights as much as mine even though I'm buying the beer.
Unlike the Cowboy deadbeat,I know and try follow the rules.Here on your private site I understand the only rule is don't piss you off so I'll bow out for now.
Good hunting.
Posts: 623 | From: SoDak | Registered: Feb 2011
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted April 15, 2014 01:52 PM
Here's a few words about it from judge A. Napolitano
the judge
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted April 15, 2014 02:01 PM
I'm in total agreement with DiYi so far. Clive is a crooked son of a bitch and whatever it takes to move him is fine. I have pile of friends that are ranchers and know tons more. Some are great salt of the earth people, some of them are outright crooks and thugs. Just because he's a rancher don't make him a " good guy". His lack of bill paying and bullshit started years ago, long before solar and fracking was even a thought. So I'm not buying into all the reasons for taking his land. It's not HIS land. Never was. It's ours and if he can't pay the pitiful amount of lease per AUM that the BLM charges then piss on him.
[ April 15, 2014, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: 3 Toes ]
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 15, 2014 02:41 PM
quote:
Here on your private site I understand the only rule is don't piss you off so I'll bow out for now.
DiYi, I want to be completely clear. I have no problem with somebody disagreeing with me. That does not piss me off. Being rude and obnoxious pisses me off. I take a lot of shit, on this site and via email, I promise you.
You have total freedom to state your opinion without fear of me using the edit button or deleting your statements. I don't do that. What I do is; as I did above, I calmly disagree with you. You state your case I state mine and nobody changes their opinion, which, (again) does not piss me off, I rather expect it.
Now, as to the video above with the Judge. I agree with him, e makes a lot of sense. In my ignorant youth, I cosigned a vehicle loan. I was never contacted about it but several years later I refinanced my property and in the escrow process, they discovered a lien on the property for a certain repossessed pick up truck. I had no choice but to accept the conditions which were to satisfy the judgement that I knew nothing about and take what was left of the proceeds, which was still sufficient for my needs.
But, that is the way it works. They can't just hook a tow truck to my vehicle and drive off because of a judgement involving another issue. And, I believe the judge is right when he says the BLM can't round up the guys cattle. They have no right to his property. HE OWES MONEY FOR GRAZING FEES. PERIOD. Put a lien on his friggin' ranch, but don't steal his cattle while the snipers keep him from objecting. The whole thing, the way they went about it is offensive to me.
I don't care if he had his day in court, I don't like the Federal Government thugs taking the law into their own hands. Other than that, (pay attention to this) I agree with DiYi and Cal, He's no poster boy for The Sagebrush Rebellion, piss on him!
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31474 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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R.Shaw
Peanut Butter Man, da da da da DAH!
Member # 73
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posted April 15, 2014 05:14 PM
I am no fan of the man....but here is what I am talking about.
[ April 15, 2014, 08:31 PM: Message edited by: R.Shaw ]
Posts: 545 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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DiYi
Wears wife's pink panties under his camo for good luck. (yeah, right!)
Member # 3785
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posted April 16, 2014 04:20 AM
Nice story LB and hopefully they can work something out with the family.I mean that.
On the other hand,I hope this guy doesn't write a story about the native americans-we'd all have to move.
Posts: 623 | From: SoDak | Registered: Feb 2011
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DiYi
Wears wife's pink panties under his camo for good luck. (yeah, right!)
Member # 3785
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posted April 16, 2014 04:55 AM
IMO the 'solar' thing is a totally separate issue from years of non-payment but anything that benefits Harry Reid bothers the hell out of me so I keep trying to find out more about it.
A friend sent this too me and while
I have doubts about 'Snopes' I will post it anyway for what it's worth.Hard to know what they are talking about for sure if you don't live there or know the State well geographically.Anyway,sounds like the Chinese project is done but others may be pending.Also sounds like 'County' land may have been,or be,involved????
http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/nevada.asp
[ April 16, 2014, 05:18 AM: Message edited by: DiYi ]
Posts: 623 | From: SoDak | Registered: Feb 2011
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