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Author
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Topic: What about Vihtavuori???
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted March 16, 2024 10:50 AM
Spent the day throwing up after Leonard's last post but finally got down into my reloading room and came across this info in one of my manuals.
First off Viht. provides powder for many of the NATO rounds and military as well as the factory stuff you get from Europe so the stuff must be pretty good.
N-130; used for factory loaded PPC cartridges. Burn rate is between 4227 and win. 680.
N-133 burn rate is very close to the imr-4198. ideal for 222 and 223.
N-135; moderate burning powder can be used to replace reloader 12, 4895 or Imr. 4064. application anywhere from 17 rem up to 458.
N-140; can be used in place of RL-15, imr-4320, and H-380. application: 222 mag.,22-250 (and is a factory powder), 30-30, and 308.
N-150; Moderate slow powder. its used to define a load that tad to fast(N-140) or to slow (N-160). application; used to replace 760, 414 and 4350.
N-160; works well in mag. cartridges and replaces 4350 and RL19. Application; 243 win. and up.
The 500 series powder is high energy powder and is not temp. sensitive.
N-540 has same burn rate as N-140 and may get you a little more energy or vel. out of certain load. (one of my favorites)
N-550;burning rate like 150. works well in 308 and 30-06
N-560; burning rate like 160. works well in 270 and 6.5x55.
I'm not saying you need to jump and go buy this powder up but when others run short, and this is all that is on the shelf don't be afraid to try it. or if you want to fine tune a load and get little more vel. and accuracy, give it a try.
I'm not going to go into the handgun powders but for Vic or anyone else they make some versatile powder for pistol cartridges as well.
From there line of rifle powders, I found I can get by with 3 burn rates for 221, 17 f.b. and up to 243 win.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted March 16, 2024 01:57 PM
All ready use VV powder for my two competition revolvers, .38 special and .38 short colt loadings, VV N320.
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted March 16, 2024 02:43 PM
Hell Vic. you not as old school as Leonard claims you to be. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 16, 2024 06:54 PM
He must be!
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 16, 2024 07:42 PM
But, here's my old school take on Vitavouri (sp)
That's the first thing, I can't fucking spell it!
But, it used to only be available in 2 pound containers. What's with that?
Next, who needs it? Is it because it's exotic or what? I just never saw the need, or the application?
It's just Victor going all sophisticated on us, the trendy stuff, etc.
No really, supplies would have to really dry up before I would be tempted.
Another thing, there didn't used to be a lot of data on those powders and I'm just talking back in the day, before you whippersnappers got interested in handloading.
I keep all my old manuals with loading data for cartridges that are something else besides Creedmore! I can look up data on 222 Remington Magnum or 256Winchester or a lot of cartridges that are becoming a little less popular, like 284Winchester. I mean, I don't really need published data but it saves a lot of time if I can look it up at least for suitable powders.
Anyway, it's not that I am against it, and is it Sweden or Finland? I always thought it was premium priced but now, at these prices all powders are ridiculously expensive.
I'm not kidding. I used to get all the Hodgdon's powders 4831, 3031, H380 all of it in a cardboard carton likw some chocolate or Coco powder with a round metal cap. Something we used to buy more than 50 years ago came in a rectangular cardboard box with a little round steal cap. In fact, I still have some. They are about 6" tall by about 3 " wide by about 1.5-2" deep and they were cardboard with tin top and bottom and a small opening in the top.
And, I used to pay $1.95 per pound! maybe it was $1.99? That was all surplus canon powder from WWII. And before that, we used to get it in little brown paper bags! Folded over and Stapled.
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: PS I think almost all canister powders are produced off shore like Australia and Scotland? Maybe not ALL, but a hell of a lot.
edit: I think ko ko is the only one around here that admits to using a Lee Loader? But that's what O started with. MY first centerfire was a pencil barreled Mauser chambered in 270 Winchester and I handloaded that rifle with a Lee Loader, for deer, mainly. About 1968-69 I started using an actual press because I got pretty heavy into predator hunting and that takes more than a twenty round box per season. Besides, a 270 stretches cases and I was exceeding the utility of a Lee Loader which is just neck sizing anyway. I had to get into trimming to length and a lot of case prep that I didn't deal with when using a Lee Loader and a scoop.
I sold that rifle. Wish I hadn't. But, the Lee Loader went with it and a set of Dies, which came back to me whe the asshole got a stuck case and he went to strickly factory ammunition. God, did he butcher those dies! But I got the case out after he fucked it up and it took some doing! So what? I have never owned another 270Winchester! But I still have a soft heart for that caliber! In fact, I use 270 brass for my 25'06 Ackley because it's much stronger than factory 25'06 Remington brass.
That's it for our stroll down Memory Lane for this evening!
edit: the asshole that bought my 270 was a weirdo. After, as he worked with my cousin Mike Davis, this guy killed a man in a (the only) bar in Vernon and he went to prison where I hope he is still there? What happened to my 270 I never found out? This was back in the very early 1970's, but I sold him that rifle in either '68 or "69?
[ March 16, 2024, 08:19 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted March 17, 2024 01:44 AM
2 pounds was better than one pound if it fit your application, you could do load work up and still have plenty left for hunting loads... You can now get it in one-pound bottle.
From what I have seen its just more versatile compared to IMR or Hodgdon, so I need less other burn rates. I think it was last summer you couldn't find any powder on the shelves except VV.
Ram shot big game is another favorite powder. Good luck finding any.
VV also has a few paper back reloading books, just have to ask for one when you buy powder, and it covers some of the American cartridges. You can go online and find load info as well. They also have a hardcover manual, but it has mostly European cartridge loads in it.
I have a old paper can of H-335 I picked up at a gun show for a date I think it says 200 B.C. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted March 17, 2024 05:19 AM
The only VV powder I have shot is N-120. Think it’s been discontinued, I still have a couple pounds. I use it for my .17 Ackley Hornet. 12 grains gives me 3700 fps with a 20 grain Vmax. And superb accuracy.
Good Hunting Chad
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted March 17, 2024 05:51 AM
Yeah, I've used the Lee Loader but not for a long time. It served the purpose and was a step up from factory ammo without committing to a full blown reloading project. Now-a-days my reloader says Bitzenburger Fletching Jig.
Thoughts on powder, primers, boolets & pointed sticks;
(1) Ain't gonna get any cheaper.
(2) Ain't gonna get any more available.
As soon as some asshole on high finds out that you like something they will raise the price and discontinue it. Never hurts to stock up while you can.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted March 17, 2024 08:07 AM
VV N-120 book says it's close to 4227 burn rate and also a limited application powder. Book says it works superb in 224 cal. with light bullets. I never tried it in my 221 f.b but tried 4227 and didn't really like 4227, H-322 or H-335 worked better. H-335 was also a compressed load so the case was full which is what you want for accuracy.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted March 17, 2024 08:10 AM
Back in the 70s'. the powder du jour for handgun shooters was Unique, used to buy it at the old Jensens on east Pima in Tucson. They scooped it out of a drum, placed and weighed in a paper bag, then stapled shut with your receipt, buck something a pound.
You rattled my memory bank Leonard mentioning the 270. That is probably the only caliber, other than the real exotics ie: African size calibers, that I have never owned, 270 never sent a tingle up my leg?
I started out also with a Lee loader, first using one for my shotgun, then later for my first handguns. Seems crazy now, using a damned hammer banging on dies at the kitchen table, turning out .45 Colt cartridges.
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted March 17, 2024 08:23 AM
Suppressors??? Yes agree they can save on some hearing if you shoot large cartridges or large volume like at a gun range or exposed to gun fire at long period of time.
As for spooking game I just found out from talking to a friend that has a few suppressors and a diehard coyote caller that it's a hit and miss with a suppressor. He is in Northern Minn. and hunts there as well as the more open country in N.D.
He claims at times you get multiple coyotes coming in and a coyote still a 1/4 mile away well turn and run from the zip sound or crack of the bullet that was shot at another coyote in opposite direction and get same response from other coyotes out in front. But then said sometimes you get a few that just stand there confused after first shot but goes on to say that he gets same reactions from coyotes when he wasn't using a suppressor. A lot depended also on how big of a gun he used.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted March 17, 2024 11:35 AM
Tim, your friend is correct in all that he said. I will say I have killed more doubles and triple since going suppressed. I will never go back to shooting unsuppressed. And I really hate when I am on a stand now where someone is.
Good Hunting Chad
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted March 17, 2024 04:53 PM
Yeah the guy sitting next to me on a stand canbe the worse as far as muzzle blast and with some of them I wish I had a 50 cal. BMG along.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 18, 2024 01:02 PM
Victor, It's funny about that tingle thing. I always thought there are a few cartridges with some kind of "Magic" in the name itself. Like 220Swift. I don't care, I really do get a kind of thrill, and I suppose it's different for everybody, kinda like females, some certain ones give me a mental stiffy and some not so much, and sometimes there is just something sexy about a homely woman; you just know she would be an animal in bed, or pushed against the back of the sofa!
Anyway, my illustrative example momentarily got the best of me! There is magic in certain cartridges relating to performance, and it's unfortunate if they are "blessed" with an ordinary name, like 6.5 Creedmore. That label does not excite the juices, unlike an "Ackley Improved" anything. And don't forget, part of the greatness is the 40 degree shoulder and what that does to, well, everything, like economy of brass life and the performance is almost free.
So, growing up on Jack O'Conner and stories of exotic sheep hunting with a trusty 270Winchester. (and Victor don't get it?) Compared to the crusty 30'06, a fucking 270 is more like a sports car! What the hell is not to like?
I used and was trained with the M1 Garand, but just M! as far as I was concerned. Yeah, they have other stuff with the M1 nomenclature but in my day, it was simply the M1 and you didn't need to define it further with the Garand specific. This was the first centerfire cartridge I ever shot, before this growing up, my first real gun was a shotgun and then a 22 rimfire. So, that 30'06 packed authority.
But, I was separated from 3 years of active duty and still couldn't buy a beer because I wasn't 21. I just knew that if I got a serious rifle, it would be chambered in 270Winchester, and fuck that boring 30'06 Springfield! A lot of ROMANCE wrapped up in that cartridge....and yet, Victor never got a tingle? I suppose he had Hillary Clinton nudes on the walls of his bedroom growing up? Yeah, I can see it.
Anyway, for the rest of us, there were right and wrong cartridges. A 308W is an ugly beast, and a 25'06 is a sports car. A 6.5 Swede is homely on the order of kissing your sister. But, 300Winchester Magnum ends debate, and for me it was hard coming because my first love was actually the 264Winchester Magnum. See, that one is sexy as hell and 7mmRemington Magnum is Plain Vanilla. See how that works? Some cartridges are exotic and some are BORING! 30'06-Boring! 308Winchester Very Boring! 418Rigby-Sexy! 300H&H Magnum-Boring! 338 Weatherby Magnum-Sexy.
Now everybody will have their own concept of Boring vs Sexy and that's OK, this is America, after all!
How Victor got waylaid with 17 caliber "things" is his own business. I won't fault him for his non tingle response to the noble Prince of Western mountain hunting, which is logically the venerable 270 Winchester. He gets it right in other ways. Part of the problem for me trying to kill coyotes at night with a 270 was the lack of accuracy bulets. I tried a lot of 90grainHP and 110 grain spitzers, and managed to kill my share, but I saw the struggle and knew where the relief was.
Anyway, that's all I got on that. Everybody will have their own list, even TA is allowed his peccadilloes! Or, some might even favor the 19 Calhoon.... whatever that is? right?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted March 18, 2024 02:19 PM
Leonard Vic chose a 17 rem just like i did, it is a sexy little cartridge with attitude (reminds me of Marlan Monroe) sorry you missed out on it. The 17 mach-4 was even sexier reminds me of those sexy midgets. 221f.b. another nice looker on the short side. Anything bigger than a 224 just reminded me of plain old fat chicks. Now that's boring. But as they say fat chicks need loving also so I leave that up to you guys. (Koko) Was always interested in a 25-06, it reminded me of those tall Russian basketball ladies. The 223 always reminded me of a dumb blonde.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 18, 2024 05:58 PM
I forgot 223! It's a miserable fake. It could have been up to the job, but failed on everything except being able to carry a bunch of spare ammo for all those "MAG DUMPS" so popular in the Nam. I'm finely attuned to the ONE SHOT ONE KILL crowd.
In fact, I am in the middle of a book written in 1910 (I think?) It's called AFRICAN GAME TRAILS, by Theadore Roosevelt. This guy was before his time, in some respects. Like he created the first National Park anywhere in the world. Yellowstone.
But, what a safari! I think it was 11 months, with 100 porters. They killed hundreds of head of game. And shot a bunch of animals to feed the porters. Besides that there was a lot of staff like horse handlers and gun bearers, cooks and tent and camp set hippopotamus. This guy, in the bush, got a bath every night, in a canvas bathtub. He was killing a bunch of animals for taxidermy and display at the National Museum, a forerunner of the Smithonium, I believe. So he would shoot a buck and a soe and a couple fawns for a family group.
He had poor eyesight and was a very ordinary shot on game. He had no reservations on taking a shot on a lion at 250 yards, then he would say that he wounded the animal-in the foot! They would gallop after just about any animal and this guy would mention hitting an animal 8 or 9 times! Myself I would be embarrassed to mention stuff like this but he had no shame whatsoever.
He mentioned that he was very eager to get a bull hippopotamus, and mentioned that you can't tell in the water so he killed quite a few cows by mistake. I mean, he actually shot hundreds of game animals and all kinds of lesser critters, mice, rats hundreds of birds, and I don't remember for sure but I think about a dozen Zebras, so he must have brought along a hell of a lot of cartridges, he had a 450 Holland and Holland double and a Springfield and something like a 405lever action Winchester, I forget? But anyway, this was a safari to end all safari's.
So they literally lived off the land, hauling water and of course rationing it to the natives while saving enough for his nightly bath. All in all an interesting book. For the historical angle alone.
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: I made every kill, a one shot kill, on licensed game and on free stuff like jackals and springbok. If you wound an animal and don't recover it, you still pay for it. I did not risk any chancy shots, tried to be deliberate on everything. I put a lot of pressure on myself.
[ March 18, 2024, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted March 18, 2024 06:00 PM
Nope, not into chunky monkey.
I suspect that you guys might be suffering from lead poisoning or something when you start comparing booblets to women.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 18, 2024 06:06 PM
What the hell is chunky monkey?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted March 18, 2024 06:22 PM
Here's my "thrillers". I'll put Leonard in a boredom induced coma with my first pick. If I was young again, and had to have but one rifle/cartridge combination, it would hands down be a .308 Win. Capable of killing anything that walks this continent.
My list is short:
.17 Mach4
.223
.19 Badger
.243
.257 Roberts
I don't hunt deer or big game any longer or I'd still have a .243 or .257 Roberts. The last three deer I killed fell to my .17 Mach4 so there's that?
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted March 18, 2024 09:00 PM
Think beaver on a high carb diet.
30-30 !!!!! ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 18, 2024 09:39 PM
I'm a closet admirer of the 257 Roberts! In fact, I would like to rebarrel my Model 600 to that cartridge!
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted March 19, 2024 10:54 AM
I like short chicks on low carb diet. 22 B.R or 22 ppc comes to mind and something I always wanted to try.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted March 19, 2024 11:04 AM
Dakota Territory gun show. March 23 & 24th. 1,300 tables so far. It will take you all day and then some if you look at all the tables. Its like walking through a museum with the new guns on market as well as the oldies with some you may have never seen before. Lots of old Winchesters, target rifles, long range black powder rifles, and some of the fancy custom stuff out there. You also get to see some of the gun collections out there. And if you look real hard you may run into Hanks Williams Jr..
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 19, 2024 03:28 PM
You know, quite a few years ago, we had the biggest gun show on the planet at the Los Angeles County Fairgrounds. something like 6,000 tables in 4 buildings.
Then this asshole County supervisor declared what a cruel thing to be selling and trading guns without regulation on county property and that was it. Now we have tiny shows and they won't sell "explosives" like primers and gunpowder. Same thing, ignorant people that don't know a damned thing about what they have regulating authority over, but they ignorantly ban all this "dangerous shit" and all they are doing is being a wet blanket on a lot of guys that just want to brouse looking for deals with a wad of cash the old lady don't know about.
That's where it stands. I've been to maybe 2 gunshows in 20 years. It just ain't the same! And one of those I went to was in El Paso. It beat our local sanitized gun shows by a mile!
Good hunting. El Bee
PS my local gun show is in the Ontario Community center and the fire department won't allow any powder, primers and loaded ammunition. And, any guns for sale still need to be subject to a 10 day waiting period. It ain't like the old days!
[ March 19, 2024, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted March 19, 2024 04:28 PM
Not good Leonard. I think I'm just going to be grateful for a handful of coyotes rather than live there in the land of plenty.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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